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karnivore
03-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Just wondering if anyone reads Lee Strobel's series "The Case For...."? I love learning more about what I believe in, and wondering if anyone else does as well.

(This is not to bash anyone elses religion at all, just would love to chat with others. If you have something debateable in his books by all means Id love to know!)

gatorboymike
03-08-2011, 06:47 PM
I wasn't impressed. Strobel attempts to present himself as an unbiased journalist just looking for the facts, but what he really does is seek out people he knows already agree with everything he says, asks them "Aren't I right about everything?" and they say "Yup, you're right about everything," and then he says, "Well, there you go, that proves it."

He sells this stuff as material you can give to your non-Christian friends and relatives to convince them that Christianity is right, when it's really, obviously, material for people who are already Christians to assure themselves they're right.

If you ask me, he should do less apologetics and more apologizing.

karnivore
03-08-2011, 07:14 PM
I wasn't impressed. Strobel attempts to present himself as an unbiased journalist just looking for the facts, but what he really does is seek out people he knows already agree with everything he says, asks them "Aren't I right about everything?" and they say "Yup, you're right about everything," and then he says, "Well, there you go, that proves it."

He sells this stuff as material you can give to your non-Christian friends and relatives to convince them that Christianity is right, when it's really, obviously, material for people who are already Christians to assure themselves they're right.

If you ask me, he should do less apologetics and more apologizing.


I dont get how you get that at all. He goes to leading people from around the US to ask them the questions that most other religions say disproves the Bible. Ive read 2 and a half and nowhere have I read that he tells the people something and they are like that.

habsheaven
03-08-2011, 08:33 PM
I'm curious, having never read anything he's written; how does Strobel "explain away" the similarities between Jesus Christ and Mithra, considering Mithra's story existed 1,500 years before Christ?

karnivore
03-08-2011, 08:56 PM
I'm curious, having never read anything he's written; how does Strobel "explain away" the similarities between Jesus Christ and Mithra, considering Mithra's story existed 1,500 years before Christ?


I actually just read that one part about how Christianity "stole" other religions, and a Professor from Ohio area was the interviewee. The religion of Mithra was around before Jesus, but it doesn't predate the Old Testament. Also the religion of Mithra adding in alot of things about him in the 2nd century onwards, after Jesus died on the cross and all the other "similarities" happened. Alot of the similarities are either not true, or the earliest recordings of how they are show it happened to Jesus first, based upon the facts the Professor gave from outside sources (Christian and non-Christian alike). If you have certain areas of similarities, ill be glad to get the answers!


The one thing that does need to be taught though is about Christmas and how its not really Jesus's birthday. That is something that does need to be taught more :)

habsheaven
03-09-2011, 09:41 AM
I actually just read that one part about how Christianity "stole" other religions, and a Professor from Ohio area was the interviewee. The religion of Mithra was around before Jesus, but it doesn't predate the Old Testament. Also the religion of Mithra adding in alot of things about him in the 2nd century onwards, after Jesus died on the cross and all the other "similarities" happened. Alot of the similarities are either not true, or the earliest recordings of how they are show it happened to Jesus first, based upon the facts the Professor gave from outside sources (Christian and non-Christian alike). If you have certain areas of similarities, ill be glad to get the answers!


The one thing that does need to be taught though is about Christmas and how its not really Jesus's birthday. That is something that does need to be taught more :)

My point exactly. It is widely accepted that The Church "borrowed" this date from Mithra in hopes of gaining converts to their religion. Makes your assertion that "the religion of Mithra adding in alot of things about him in the 2nd century onwards" a little hollow.

karnivore
03-09-2011, 10:53 AM
My point exactly. It is widely accepted that The Church "borrowed" this date from Mithra in hopes of gaining converts to their religion. Makes your assertion that "the religion of Mithra adding in alot of things about him in the 2nd century onwards" a little hollow.



They didnt "borrow" it from Mithras alone, Constantine took it because many other Pagan religions use it as their "birthday" (Mithras is actually celebrated for 6 days) and festivities because its also the Winter Solstice. Thats one of the things it talked about, was most Pagan religions did not do resurrection, but the dieing and coming back to life with the seasons, which is why Dec 21-25 days are normally the days most Gods birthday/celebration days is.

Its also noted that the earliest archaeology findings of the Mithra religion are from 80-100 AD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras) but it also has been said to been around longer, roughly 1500 BC, thats why I talked about it superceeding the New Testament. But the earliest forms of the similarities based on archaeologic findings show that it happened in Christianity first. The main reason why people believe its the same thing is because a 2nd Century christian writer, Justin Martyr, "acussing the Mithraists of diabolically imitating the Christian communion rite".

I didnt bring my book again, but I will tonight if you have specific similarities youd like to ask! Thanks for talking, I love learning about other religions as well as my own.

duane1969
03-09-2011, 11:49 AM
karnivore, just wanted to say that I am glad to see someone in the P&R forum who can debate a subject without insults and hostility.

I have not read any of Strobel's work so I will leave that to you and others who may have.

karnivore
03-09-2011, 09:41 PM
karnivore, just wanted to say that I am glad to see someone in the P&R forum who can debate a subject without insults and hostility.

I have not read any of Strobel's work so I will leave that to you and others who may have.


Thanks man, if I talked back with hostility and insults, it would discredit the foundation of my beliefs! But much appreciated! :)

Back to Mithras, Richard Gordon from the University of East Angolia and other other scholars date the vast majority of the inscriptions of Mithras works during the reign of Hadrian, AD 117-138. The earliest public recognition on record was in AD 66, when Tiridates, king of Armenia, said," And I have come to thee, my god, to worship thee as I do Mithras."

Gary Lease (professor of religious studies at University of California- Santa Cruz) noted in a academic article that eminent scholars such as Adolf von Harnack, Arthur Darby Nock, S. G. F. Brandon, William R. Halliday, and Ernest Benz "have seen little evidence to support claims of such influence and mutual borrowing between Christianity and Mithraism."

How can Mithras be born of a if he is born of a rock? So if born from a rock, it takes out he was born in a cave area as well.

Mithras "birthday" is not December 25. The date was chosen by Emperor Aurelian for the dedication of his temple to Sol Invictus, the god called the "Unconquerable Sun." Mithras was closely associated with Sol Invictus, including some art of them shaking hands.

Mithras was a God, not a teacher.
Mithras sacrificed a bull, not himself.
No textual facts about Mithras death, so with no death no resurrection.