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View Full Version : Bankruptcy court rules against gay marriage ban



mrveggieman
06-15-2011, 07:56 AM
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/bankruptcy-court-rules-against-977317.html

What do ya'll think about this?

Star_Cards
06-15-2011, 09:02 AM
Well, I get the ruling because it follows the current law. However, I believe the current law to be ridiculous and quite archaic. Same sex couples should have the same right to marriage or filing for bankruptcy as a couple as straight couples do.

mrveggieman
06-15-2011, 09:47 AM
If I could add my spin on it, morally I don't believe in gay marriage but I do believe that gays are entitled to every legal protection that the rest of society enjoys. That goes back to the seperation of church and state. Let the state handle their part and God handle his part and we will be ok.

Star_Cards
06-15-2011, 10:34 AM
agreed. morality shouldn't come into defining a person's rights. To me it's senseless to do so when a lot of people that would have to follow these rules don't always have the same religious/moral belief system as the one that creates the rule.

theonedru
06-15-2011, 12:49 PM
I am a huge advocate for equal rights for all, the fact that homosexuals have been treated like 2nd class citizens for so long is disgusting and a stain on all our selves. And as for the religious zealots that hide behind their bible need to read it a little closer.

Star_Cards
06-15-2011, 01:26 PM
I am a huge advocate for equal rights for all, the fact that homosexuals have been treated like 2nd class citizens for so long is disgusting and a stain on all our selves. And as for the religious zealots that hide behind their bible need to read it a little closer.

couldn't agree more. besides, even if you are of one type of religious belief, I fail to see how that makes people think that that belief should dictate all people within our free belief country. I get that people can not agree with the issue, but just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean that everyone else should have to live by your standards. There are plenty of things that I don't want to do but that doesn't mean that I'm close minded enough to try to keep other people from doing it.

*censored*
06-15-2011, 02:22 PM
The state has forced itself into making "marriage" a legal contract, not just a moral one. If you want to give that legal recognition to straight couples, it should be given to gay couples as well.

Frankly, the best idea would be to make every legal marriage document into a civil union document, no matter if it's a man and a woman, two men, or two women, and leave the idea of "marriage" to the churches.

Star_Cards
06-15-2011, 04:18 PM
well said. there's a confusion of the religious term marriage and what more people mean when they say marriage today. The term marriage has been adopted by society to have different meanings to each couple but yet is defined as such my the state government. That definition should stand separate from how a religion views it.

certain religions require specific things of heterosexual couples... that is perfectly fine, but shouldn't overflow into the requirement of the state. To me the religious union and the union viewed legally by the state are two completely separate things and the people that want to group them together because their religious says it's wrong or they think their religion says it's wrong are trying to make every citizen live by their chosen religious ideals.

duane1969
06-15-2011, 05:58 PM
I advocate legal unions of whoever wants to be joined legally. However...


I am a huge advocate for equal rights for all, the fact that homosexuals have been treated like 2nd class citizens for so long is disgusting and a stain on all our selves. And as for the religious zealots that hide behind their bible need to read it a little closer.

Why should they read their Bible more closely? "Love thy brother" does not equal "Accept thy brother's immoral choices". This is a commonly used angle that carries no weight. The Bible condones loving everyone, not loving everything that they do.

duwal
06-15-2011, 08:13 PM
I advocate legal unions of whoever wants to be joined legally. However...



Why should they read their Bible more closely? "Love thy brother" does not equal "Accept thy brother's immoral choices". This is a commonly used angle that carries no weight. The Bible condones loving everyone, not loving everything that they do.


but its only the Bible's "opinion" of it being an immoral choice. I would prefer to make a decision and think on my own instead of a book saying how I should feel about something.

theonedru
06-15-2011, 08:42 PM
I advocate legal unions of whoever wants to be joined legally. However...



Why should they read their Bible more closely? "Love thy brother" does not equal "Accept thy brother's immoral choices". This is a commonly used angle that carries no weight. The Bible condones loving everyone, not loving everything that they do.

i say it because of how they love to look down upon others and judge their "immoralities" while ignoring their own to the point of justifying them as the world and law of not only God but the land. It goes far beyond loving others, but respecting them as well.

*censored*
06-16-2011, 12:02 AM
There's also limited evidence that it's a choice, more that it's something innate, whether genetic, or otherwise.

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 12:27 AM
but its only the Bible's "opinion" of it being an immoral choice. I would prefer to make a decision and think on my own instead of a book saying how I should feel about something.

I couldn't agree more. I don't get why people form opinions about things because a book or a religious leader says it to be so. And if someone chooses to follow a religious way of thinking that is their right, but it's not their right to create laws or rules that force other people that are not of the same belief to follow these same ideals. It's incredibly how some people think that just because they have an opinion about something makes it right to try to force others into that same feeling. It's sick that people think their religious viewpoints should dictate the entire country.

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 10:16 AM
Check out what former super bowl hero David Tyree has to say about the gay marriage situation in New York.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Gay-marriage-former-Super-Bowl-star-speaks-out-061511

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 11:01 AM
wow! I get a concern that two men raising a female or two women raising a male lacks a certain male or female influence, but I completely disagree with his take that they can't properly raise a child. Going by his thought, then any single male or female parent that has an opposite sex child can't properly raise that child on their own.

even more disturbing is this quote...

"How can marriage be marriage for thousands of years and now all the sudden because a minority, an influential minority, has a push or agenda ... and totally reshapes something that was not founded in our country,"

Coming from a minority himself and a minority that was horribly oppressed I find this statement sad. I'll assume that he hasn't really thought his statements through and is just speaking out of fear or ignorance about this situation. To say that because something has been a certain way for thousands of years as a reason to not be changed is the stupidest reason for the ban that I've heard. To maybe ring home the point maybe someone should tell him that slavery was around for hundreds of years so why change it just because a minority with a voice wants to influence change... and that's not to say that I am comparing a gay marriage ban to slavery or putting them on equal ground, but Mr. Tyree should give his reasoning a bit more thought in my opinion. Allowing gays to marry will not bring anyone down a path to anarchy... lol.

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 11:44 AM
wow! I get a concern that two men raising a female or two women raising a male lacks a certain male or female influence, but I completely disagree with his take that they can't properly raise a child. Going by his thought, then any single male or female parent that has an opposite sex child can't properly raise that child on their own.

even more disturbing is this quote...

"How can marriage be marriage for thousands of years and now all the sudden because a minority, an influential minority, has a push or agenda ... and totally reshapes something that was not founded in our country,"

Coming from a minority himself and a minority that was horribly oppressed I find this statement sad. I'll assume that he hasn't really thought his statements through and is just speaking out of fear or ignorance about this situation. To say that because something has been a certain way for thousands of years as a reason to not be changed is the stupidest reason for the ban that I've heard. To maybe ring home the point maybe someone should tell him that slavery was around for hundreds of years so why change it just because a minority with a voice wants to influence change... and that's not to say that I am comparing a gay marriage ban to slavery or putting them on equal ground, but Mr. Tyree should give his reasoning a bit more thought in my opinion. Allowing gays to marry will not bring anyone down a path to anarchy... lol.


I agree with you on your points my only concern would be if a gay couple were allowed to adopt the child imagine the ridicule that the child would get in school from their classmates when they find out that he/she has 2 gay parents.

*censored*
06-16-2011, 12:21 PM
I agree with you on your points my only concern would be if a gay couple were allowed to adopt the child imagine the ridicule that the child would get in school from their classmates when they find out that he/she has 2 gay parents.

What about a child of divorced parents, one of whom comes out of the closet and is in a homosexual relationship post-divorce? Or taking it a step further, what if both parents come out of the closet post-divorce?

theonedru
06-16-2011, 12:30 PM
I agree with you on your points my only concern would be if a gay couple were allowed to adopt the child imagine the ridicule that the child would get in school from their classmates when they find out that he/she has 2 gay parents.

If 2 gay people adopt a child you know what you end up with?

A child finally realizing there is someone out there who does love them and is willing to nurture them and that they finally have the stability in their lives they had always wanted. Look at the positives and not the might be negatives.

sanfran22
06-16-2011, 01:01 PM
There's also limited evidence that it's a choice, more that it's something innate, whether genetic, or otherwise.
Really? Well that's highly debatable. One question....If this entire world were gay how long would this world exist? You're telling me that's the way it was intended to be??

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 02:24 PM
Really? Well that's highly debatable. One question....If this entire world were gay how long would this world exist? You're telling me that's the way it was intended to be??


Easy now. That's not going to happen. Like I said earlier while I believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, consenting adults have a right to legally do what they want in the privacy and comfort of their own bedrooms. That being said males are always going to be attracted to females and vice verca so there is no way (not in my lifetime atleast) that the entire world is going to turn gay.

theonedru
06-16-2011, 02:26 PM
Really? Well that's highly debatable. One question....If this entire world were gay how long would this world exist? You're telling me that's the way it was intended to be??

If the entire world were white how long would the world exist, or Jewish, or blind, deaf, toothless, a mute point as you can see as fact that there are same sex couples tell me they were intended to exist and as such do not deserve this garbage the moral majority shoves down their throats, One must learn to look past the differences we have in life and see the commonalities that we all share. Just because there are those on here that I frequently butt heads with people such as yourself, OPT or Duane to name a few doesnt mean I have any less respect for any of you as a person or look down at you or that any of you do not deserve anything that no one other person is privy to. Other should see things by stripping away the race, religion, physical or mental differences and see people for what they truly are a human being.

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 02:28 PM
If the entire world were white how long would the world exist, or Jewish, or blind, deaf, toothless, a mute point as you can see as fact that there are same sex couples tell me they were intended to exist and as such do not deserve this garbage the moral majority shoves down their throats, One must learn to look past the differences we have in life and see the commonalities that we all share. Just because there are those on here that I frequently butt heads with people such as yourself, OPT or Duane to name a few doesnt mean I have any less respect for any of you as a person or look down at you or that any of you do not deserve anything that no one other person is privy to. Other should see things by stripping away the race, religion, physical or mental differences and see people for what they truly are a human being.


Can I get an amen!!

theonedru
06-16-2011, 02:30 PM
Easy now. That's not going to happen. Like I said earlier while I believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, consenting adults have a right to legally do what they want in the privacy and comfort of their own bedrooms. That being said males are always going to be attracted to females and vice verca so there is no way (not in my lifetime atleast) that the entire world is going to turn gay.

Why do you find the love between 2 people to be immoral?

sanfran22
06-16-2011, 02:32 PM
Easy now. That's not going to happen. Like I said earlier while I believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, consenting adults have a right to legally do what they want in the privacy and comfort of their own bedrooms. That being said males are always going to be attracted to females and vice verca so there is no way (not in my lifetime atleast) that the entire world is going to turn gay.
You totally missed the point.

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 02:35 PM
Why do you find the love between 2 people to be immoral?


Because I listen to you. :sign0020:

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 02:36 PM
You totally missed the point.


What point was that? That if people look, talk, think or do things different from what you think is right that they should be dammed to hell?

sanfran22
06-16-2011, 02:37 PM
If the entire world were white how long would the world exist, or Jewish, or blind, deaf, toothless, a mute point as you can see as fact that there are same sex couples tell me they were intended to exist and as such do not deserve this garbage the moral majority shoves down their throats, One must learn to look past the differences we have in life and see the commonalities that we all share. Just because there are those on here that I frequently butt heads with people such as yourself, OPT or Duane to name a few doesnt mean I have any less respect for any of you as a person or look down at you or that any of you do not deserve anything that no one other person is privy to. Other should see things by stripping away the race, religion, physical or mental differences and see people for what they truly are a human being.
That does nothing to prove the fact that they have a choice. It is pretty irrefuteable that a man and a woman were made to go together. No one has said to not respect their choice, which it is a choice. What has been said is that they should not be rewarded for doing something that is so against science, morality, ect. Do what you will in the privacy of your own home, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept the act.
Oh, and if the entire world were any of the ways you depicted, the world would contine on as it has.
If the world were gay, there would be no more procreation and civilization would die out in 100yrs or so. That cannot be argued.

sanfran22
06-16-2011, 02:38 PM
What point was that? That if people look, talk, think or do things different from what you think is right that they should be dammed to hell?
You are totally off track, no need to discuss....

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 02:41 PM
That does nothing to prove the fact that they have a choice. It is pretty irrefuteable that a man and a woman were made to go together. No one has said to not respect their choice, which it is a choice. What has been said is that they should not be rewarded for doing something that is so against science, morality, ect. Do what you will in the privacy of your own home, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept the act.
Oh, and if the entire world were any of the ways you depicted, the world would contine on as it has.
If the world were gay, there would be no more procreation and civilization would die out in 100yrs or so. That cannot be argued.


Not happening anytime soon.

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 02:52 PM
Really? Well that's highly debatable. One question....If this entire world were gay how long would this world exist? You're telling me that's the way it was intended to be??

What do "if the whole world were gay" theories have to do with it being a choice. I'll never understand how people think one decides what they are attracted sexually. Sure one can choose whop to have sex with, but there's an internal make up that drives you to what you find attractive. I didn't make a choice to be heterosexual and I don't think people make a choice to be homosexual or bisexual.

Who's to say that there is one way and one way only that it was intended to be? Even if you think god created everything why do you think we wouldn't add in variables to add variety?

I always find it sad that people that have a right try to tell someone else that they can't have the same right. Doesn't seem right to me.

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 02:55 PM
what do "if the whole world were gay" theories have to do with it being a choice. I'll never understand how people think one decides what they are attracted sexually. Sure one can choose whop to have sex with, but there's an internal make up that drives you to what you find attractive. I didn't make a choice to be heterosexual and i don't think people make a choice to be homosexual or bisexual.

Who's to say that there is one way and one way only that it was intended to be? Even if you think god created everything why do you think we wouldn't add in variables to add variety?

I always find it sad that people that have a right try to tell someone else that they can't have the same right. Doesn't seem right to me.

+1

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 02:56 PM
If the entire world were white how long would the world exist, or Jewish, or blind, deaf, toothless, a mute point as you can see as fact that there are same sex couples tell me they were intended to exist and as such do not deserve this garbage the moral majority shoves down their throats, One must learn to look past the differences we have in life and see the commonalities that we all share. Just because there are those on here that I frequently butt heads with people such as yourself, OPT or Duane to name a few doesnt mean I have any less respect for any of you as a person or look down at you or that any of you do not deserve anything that no one other person is privy to. Other should see things by stripping away the race, religion, physical or mental differences and see people for what they truly are a human being.

well said.

sanfran22
06-16-2011, 02:57 PM
What do "if the whole world were gay" theories have to do with it being a choice. I'll never understand how people think one decides what they are attracted sexually. Sure one can choose whop to have sex with, but there's an internal make up that drives you to what you find attractive. I didn't make a choice to be heterosexual and I don't think people make a choice to be homosexual or bisexual.

Who's to say that there is one way and one way only that it was intended to be? Even if you think god created everything why do you think we wouldn't add in variables to add variety?

I always find it sad that people that have a right try to tell someone else that they can't have the same right. Doesn't seem right to me.
It makes the point that this is not what was intended.
Secondly, I've stated before and I'll do it once more I guess. They can do whatever they would like to do IN THE PRIVACY OF THIER OWN HOMES/LIVES. But to try and change laws and expect everyone to acknowledge thier lifestyles as normal is rediculous.

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 03:05 PM
It makes the point that this is not what was intended.
Secondly, I've stated before and I'll do it once more I guess. They can do whatever they would like to do IN THE PRIVACY OF THIER OWN HOMES/LIVES. But to try and change laws and expect everyone to acknowledge thier lifestyles as normal is rediculous.

Intended by whom?

People want to bring religious views into a ruling that should be made based on human rights and not personal religious beliefs. Not everyone follows the teachings of the religious majority. The religious majority shouldn't define what rights people have in the eyes of the states.

as far as dismissing it as not normal... just because something doesn't follow the status quo is not a reason to dismiss it.

sanfran22
06-16-2011, 03:08 PM
Intended by whom?

People want to bring religious views into a ruling that should be made based on human rights and not personal religious beliefs. Not everyone follows the teachings of the religious majority. The religious majority shouldn't define what rights people have in the eyes of the states.

as far as dismissing it as not normal... just because something doesn't follow the status quo is not a reason to dismiss it.
Take religion out of it and answer me 1 question. Scientifically does that lifestyle work?

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 03:10 PM
It makes the point that this is not what was intended.
Secondly, I've stated before and I'll do it once more I guess. They can do whatever they would like to do IN THE PRIVACY OF THIER OWN HOMES/LIVES. But to try and change laws and expect everyone to acknowledge thier lifestyles as normal is rediculous.

What if the majority said that conservative christanity was abnormal and laws were passed to restrict your rights to live your life as you see fit? Would you like that? Would you be upset if your rights were taken away from you and no one stood up to support you?

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 03:10 PM
and to people that think it's a choice... What do you think about homosexuals that have hard times accepting their sexual make-up? If you think it's a simple choice why wouldn't they just choose to be attracted to the opposite sex rather than struggle with being gay?

and before you say you can't know what they are thinking, I understand that, but wouldn't it stand to reason that if you were having issue with being gay and wanted to be straight one would just choose to be straight?

mrveggieman
06-16-2011, 03:12 PM
Take religion out of it and answer me 1 question. Scientifically does that lifestyle work?


Does the lifestyle work to do what? Homosexuals, go to work, go to school, pay taxes, drive cars, go grocery shoping, etc. They do the same things that you or I would do. So I ask you again what are they trying to do outside of their bedroom that anyone else isn't trying to do?

sanfran22
06-16-2011, 03:13 PM
and to people that think it's a choice... What do you think about homosexuals that have hard times accepting their sexual make-up? If you think it's a simple choice why wouldn't they just choose to be attracted to the opposite sex rather than struggle with being gay?

and before you say you can't know what they are thinking, I understand that, but wouldn't it stand to reason that if you were having issue with being gay and wanted to be straight one would just choose to be straight?
I know several people that did just that. So by your logic they shouldn't be able to do that because they were born that way?

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 03:16 PM
Take religion out of it and answer me 1 question. Scientifically does that lifestyle work?

It doesn't work if you are speaking in the simple terms of being able to procreate, but since when was the ultimate goal of people loving each other or even just having sex with each other been defined as making babies. There is so much more to a relationship than that.

Falling in love and being with someone has nothing to do with being able to procreate. Yes, the norm is that people will have babies, but there are a lot of people that don't.

If you don't want it legally recognized because a person can't have babies should they state require every couple that gets married also have babies. I'm guessing you'll say no, but my point is that marriage goes much further than procreating.

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 03:25 PM
I know several people that did just that. So by your logic they shouldn't be able to do that because they were born that way?

In my opinion I think there are so many different variations of sexuality even within the middle (bisexual) realm. My logic would never tell someone that they can't be attracted to whichever sex they are naturally attracted to.

I do think that some of people are bisexual and they can tip the scales back and forth depending on other circumstances. I know some people that are primarily attracted to the opposite sex but have been in a homosexual relationship just because that certain someone came around that they clicked with for whatever reason. I think sexuality is very tricky and there really isn't a specific norm even if conventional society wants to put everyone into the same corner.

let me ask this... say it is a choice (which I still don't agree with)... say I could go out tonight and choice to start dating a man and am sexually attracted to him... Why should I not be able to choose to be with him and get married if I choose to do so. I don't think the fact that it's a choice or not should have any bering on whether or not it should be a legal right for same sex couples to marry.

Star_Cards
06-16-2011, 03:33 PM
Does the lifestyle work to do what? Homosexuals, go to work, go to school, pay taxes, drive cars, go grocery shoping, etc. They do the same things that you or I would do. So I ask you again what are they trying to do outside of their bedroom that anyone else isn't trying to do?

good point. as far as in the eyes of the state laws, a gay marriage works the same as a straight marriage. reproductive status should not be the concern of the state laws.

*censored*
06-18-2011, 12:02 AM
reproductive status should not be the concern of the state laws.

Exactly. If reproduction had anything to do with it, then sterile people should not be permitted to marry. Care to put restrictions on them, sanfran? Or is okay as long as they're straight?

mrveggieman
03-08-2012, 02:18 PM
What ever happend to sanfran anyway?