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theonedru
07-01-2011, 04:51 AM
http://thelinkpaper.ca/?p=7970

A 95-year-old cancer-stricken woman was forced to undergo 45 minutes of intrusive pat-down at a US airport, triggering an outrage on the treatment meted out to her.


Seriously where does this garbage end. This is totally inexcusable and a new low for the TSA. Its one thing to defend the country against potential terrorist threats, its totally another thing to terrorize it's citizens.

mrveggieman
07-01-2011, 08:36 AM
This is just sick. Do these idiots really think that embarassing the elderly and children is going to stop terrorism? The real terrorists are rolling over laughing at us.

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 09:57 AM
“Eventually they found something that appeared to be hard they said could be a concealed weapon.”

While I don't believe at all she should have had to remove the diaper, the officials were doing their job. The wheelchairs require special inspections, just like any other metal object.

If you guys can think of a better system, I'd like to hear it.

Star_Cards
07-01-2011, 10:36 AM
I agree with andrew. There have been quite a few female suicide bombers over the years and part of that reason was to help disguise themselves from the typical young male stereotype of who they thought were suicide bombers. It's not inconceivable that an older person or child could be recruited knowingly or unknowingly. If they let people through who were in wheelchairs and "didn't look like a terrorist" what would keep people from pretending to be in a wheelchair to get things on planes to cause harm?

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 10:40 AM
I agree with andrew. There have been quite a few female suicide bombers over the years and part of that reason was to help disguise themselves from the typical young male stereotype of who they thought were suicide bombers. It's not inconceivable that an older person or child could be recruited knowingly or unknowingly. If they let people through who were in wheelchairs and "didn't look like a terrorist" what would keep people from pretending to be in a wheelchair to get things on planes to cause harm?

Well said.

Heck, I bet there have even been old women that have brought down planes.

Joncamburn
07-01-2011, 10:50 AM
i agree with andrew. There have been quite a few female suicide bombers over the years and part of that reason was to help disguise themselves from the typical young male stereotype of who they thought were suicide bombers. It's not inconceivable that an older person or child could be recruited knowingly or unknowingly. If they let people through who were in wheelchairs and "didn't look like a terrorist" what would keep people from pretending to be in a wheelchair to get things on planes to cause harm?
+1

Star_Cards
07-01-2011, 10:54 AM
you can't forget about the great possibility that people at the airport who aren't flying on a plane could potentially place things in passengers or in their belongings (even wheelchairs) that could do harm.

I don't know how this specific search went but just because some cried doesn't always mean that it was inappropriate on the searchers part. I'm sure they felt bad that she was so upset, but say she did have something and it got through... people would be going nuts that they were incompetent. They really can't win if you think about it.

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 10:57 AM
you can't forget about the great possibility that people at the airport who aren't flying on a plane could potentially place things in passengers or in their belongings (even wheelchairs) that could do harm.

I don't know how this specific search went but just because some cried doesn't always mean that it was inappropriate on the searchers part. I'm sure they felt bad that she was so upset, but they say she did have something and it got through... people would be going nuts that they were incompetent. They really can't win if you think about it.

Very going point, as well. Again.

INTIMADATOR2007
07-01-2011, 05:31 PM
While I don't believe at all she should have had to remove the diaper, the officials were doing their job. The wheelchairs require special inspections, just like any other metal object.

If you guys can think of a better system, I'd like to hear it.



I heard that lady's daughter interviewed on the radio . She claims the wheelchair was provided by the TSA as a loaner. So if you or a family memebe go to the airport , Dont request wheelchairs ..lol..

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 06:16 PM
I heard that lady's mother interviewed on the radio . She claims the wheelchair was provided by the TSA as a loaner. So if you or a family memebe go to the airport , Dont request wheelchairs ..lol..

Uhh, I doubt that the lady's mother is still alive....

But, I don't get what that has to do with anything. They could have swiped explosives into some hidden crevice and went onto the plane.

theonedru
07-01-2011, 08:15 PM
There is a way greater possibility that I could be hit by some driver who is either drunk or distracted while driving a such should every vehicle then come with a breathalyzer to test for booze and a device to measure for drugs before they are allowed to drive all while being monitored to make sure they are not cheating while doing it? After all its a greater safety risk to this country then some person bombing a plane.

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 08:28 PM
There is a way greater possibility that I could be hit by some driver who is either drunk or distracted while driving a such should every vehicle then come with a breathalyzer to test for booze and a device to measure for drugs before they are allowed to drive all while being monitored to make sure they are not cheating while doing it? After all its a greater safety risk to this country then some person bombing a plane.

I laughed at this. Let's see.... a large fireball freefalling from the sky or a drunk driver on a rampage, when after he hits something he will pretty much stop?

theonedru
07-01-2011, 08:39 PM
I laughed at this. Let's see.... a large fireball freefalling from the sky or a drunk driver on a rampage, when after he hits something he will pretty much stop?

So drunk drivers are funny to you?

Drunk driving happens on a way larger scale in this country then planes blowing up my friend, think about what causes more damage....

And what if that thing that stops them is a relatives vehicle or some guy in a wheelchair or somebodies now dead body or bodies? Is it still funny then?

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 08:43 PM
So drunk drivers are funny to you?

Drunk driving happens on a way larger scale in this country then planes blowing up my friend, think about what causes more damage....

Did I ever say drunk driving was funny? I was laughing at the comparison.

Yes, drunk driving happens way more often than planes exploding, but saying a drunk driver is a greater risk than a plane that just exploded in my mind is crazy.

If you were driving along a road, and an exploding plane and drunk driver were both coming up on your rear, which would you fear more?

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 08:44 PM
Is it still funny then?

Again, please point out where I said drunk driving was a serious matter.

theonedru
07-01-2011, 09:05 PM
Did I ever say drunk driving was funny? I was laughing at the comparison.

Yes, drunk driving happens way more often than planes exploding, but saying a drunk driver is a greater risk than a plane that just exploded in my mind is crazy.

If you were driving along a road, and an exploding plane and drunk driver were both coming up on your rear, which would you fear more?

My point being that impaired drivers are way more prevalent and do extensively more damage to society then people blowing up planes and yet we focus on plane bombers because the fear of it can be sold better to the American general populace. Fear equals profit. You want people to quit blowing up our planes its easy to stop, just stay out of other countries business and let them fight it out amongst themselves while we focus on improving ourselves and our global image. Then we wont have 95 year old terminally ill people getting mistaken for terrorists.

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 09:12 PM
My point being that impaired drivers are way more prevalent and do extensively more damage to society then people blowing up planes and yet we focus on plane bombers because the fear of it can be sold better to the American general populace. Fear equals profit. You want people to quit blowing up our planes its easy to stop, just stay out of other countries business and let them fight it out amongst themselves while we focus on improving ourselves and our global image. Then we wont have 95 year old terminally ill people getting mistaken for terrorists.

I get your point, and it is true. Drunk drivers are more of a problem than potential bombs.

HOWEVER, the threat of a bomb on a plane if it does happen would create a much bigger catastrophe than any drunk driver would be able to.

There is honestly no way anyone will ever be able to stop a drunk driver from taking control of a vehicle. There is a way to keep bombs off of planes, however.


Also, this has nothing to do with a 95 year old being mistaken from a terrorist. The security people were doing their job by checking in on the hard object.

ensbergcollector
07-01-2011, 09:34 PM
My point being that impaired drivers are way more prevalent and do extensively more damage to society then people blowing up planes and yet we focus on plane bombers because the fear of it can be sold better to the American general populace. Fear equals profit. You want people to quit blowing up our planes its easy to stop, just stay out of other countries business and let them fight it out amongst themselves while we focus on improving ourselves and our global image. Then we wont have 95 year old terminally ill people getting mistaken for terrorists.

you really think the answer is just to stay out of everyone's business? We should worry about improving our global image? OK, understand something. Since WWII, the world has treated the US like the strong big brother of the world. They want us to come to everyone's rescue at the drop of a hat whether that be through financial aid or military aid. But, if we ever try to do something that is of our choosing, we are automatically the big bully. It isn't an issue of us staying out of everyone's business. They hate us simply because we dare make decisions on our own. I'm sorry, while I don't see it ever happening, the solution is for the world to realize they can't have it both ways. They can't expect our aid anytime they ask without allowing us the right to make up our own mind sometimes.

duwal
07-01-2011, 09:53 PM
http://thelinkpaper.ca/?p=7970

A 95-year-old cancer-stricken woman was forced to undergo 45 minutes of intrusive pat-down at a US airport, triggering an outrage on the treatment meted out to her.


Seriously where does this garbage end. This is totally inexcusable and a new low for the TSA. Its one thing to defend the country against potential terrorist threats, its totally another thing to terrorize it's citizens.


what better target for a terrorist to plant something than an elderly wheelchair-bound U.S. citizen??? I applaud them for their actions. Everyone will be outraged at the searches until they find someone slipped an explosive into a kids backpack. If people want to feel safe at airports and on their planes than this is an absolute necessity

andrewhoya
07-01-2011, 09:54 PM
what better target for a terrorist to plant something than an elderly wheelchair-bound u.s. Citizen??? I applaud them for their actions. Everyone will be outraged at the searches until they find someone slipped an explosive into a kids backpack. If people want to feel safe at airports and on their planes than this is an absolute necessity

+1000

duwal
07-01-2011, 09:57 PM
There is a way greater possibility that I could be hit by some driver who is either drunk or distracted while driving a such should every vehicle then come with a breathalyzer to test for booze and a device to measure for drugs before they are allowed to drive all while being monitored to make sure they are not cheating while doing it? After all its a greater safety risk to this country then some person bombing a plane.


when's the last time a drunk driver took down two buildings and thousands of innocent people in one swoop?? If there is a crash from drunk driving it is that driver and who he hits that is involved. If a plane crashes there is a very good chance that none on board or those on the ground in its path survive

theonedru
07-01-2011, 11:18 PM
when's the last time a drunk driver took down two buildings and thousands of innocent people in one swoop?? If there is a crash from drunk driving it is that driver and who he hits that is involved. If a plane crashes there is a very good chance that none on board or those on the ground in its path survive

Stats and averages are just lost on most people here aren't they so i will say it plain for all to understand.

More people are killed and injured every year by impaired and distracted drivers then by planes being blown out of the skies.

tutall
07-01-2011, 11:56 PM
Stats and averages are just lost on most people here aren't they so i will say it plain for all to understand.

More people are killed and injured every year by impaired and distracted drivers then by planes being blown out of the skies.

I actually agree with you... But my question is if there was a way to prevent drunk drivers 100 percent of the time would you be for it?

andrewhoya
07-02-2011, 09:26 AM
Stats and averages are just lost on most people here aren't they so i will say it plain for all to understand.

More people are killed and injured every year by impaired and distracted drivers then by planes being blown out of the skies.

I don't think he said anywhere in his statement that planes coming out of the sky happen more often.

duane1969
07-02-2011, 10:11 AM
Lulled to sleep. You are all being lulled to sleep.

25 years ago you could get on a plane with hardly a nod, 10 years ago a simple metal detector and Xray of your bag would suffice. Now they are strip searching old ladies and 3 year old children and people actually argue that it is OK as long as it protects us.

In 5 years you will need to arrive at the airport 3 hours early for your mandatory full strip search, full cavity search including Xrays and 1 hour personality interview before you will be allowed to fly, and some of you will say it is OK because it is protecting you from harm.

These people are not protecting you, they are stripping away your civil liberties. They are convincing you to voluntarily give up your inalienable freedoms all in the name of safety and you do it without hesitation or a second thought.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.-Thomas Jefferson



Lulled to sleep....

andrewhoya
07-02-2011, 10:50 AM
Lulled to sleep. You are all being lulled to sleep.

25 years ago you could get on a plane with hardly a nod, 10 years ago a simple metal detector and Xray of your bag would suffice. Now they are strip searching old ladies and 3 year old children and people actually argue that it is OK as long as it protects us.

In 5 years you will need to arrive at the airport 3 hours early for your mandatory full strip search, full cavity search including Xrays and 1 hour personality interview before you will be allowed to fly, and some of you will say it is OK because it is protecting you from harm.

These people are not protecting you, they are stripping away your civil liberties. They are convincing you to voluntarily give up your inalienable freedoms all in the name of safety and you do it without hesitation or a second thought.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.-Thomas Jefferson



Lulled to sleep....

So, you are saying, the TSA is doing NOTHING to protect us at all?
I'm sure I could come up with a list of 100 things that the government does to strip our civil liberties. Searching people to make sure they are safely boarding a plane that could be used to create a massive terror plot IS NOT one of them.

Call me crazy, but I now hope that one day a granny or a toddler is stripped with some explosive by a terrorist and is brainwashed to try to carry out a terror plot to prove that anything is possible and that terrorists will use any means possible to carry out what they are trying to do.


If you think our TSA are complete whackjobs, then go to another country where they just let people onto planes, and you end up sitting next to a convicted terrorist.

Also, if the TSA security people are not trying to protect us by searching old or young people, then what are they trying to do? I'm interested to see what you can try to come up with.

tutall
07-02-2011, 11:07 AM
Lulled to sleep. You are all being lulled to sleep.

25 years ago you could get on a plane with hardly a nod, 10 years ago a simple metal detector and Xray of your bag would suffice. Now they are strip searching old ladies and 3 year old children and people actually argue that it is OK as long as it protects us.

In 5 years you will need to arrive at the airport 3 hours early for your mandatory full strip search, full cavity search including Xrays and 1 hour personality interview before you will be allowed to fly, and some of you will say it is OK because it is protecting you from harm.

These people are not protecting you, they are stripping away your civil liberties. They are convincing you to voluntarily give up your inalienable freedoms all in the name of safety and you do it without hesitation or a second thought.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.-Thomas Jefferson



Lulled to sleep....

Except... you can choose not to go through these searches by choosing not to fly. I have no problem with these kinds of things... 10 years ago you could walk into a baseball game without having your bag looked into... 10 years ago you could walk into a mall without going through a metal detector and a security guard being at the door... 10 years ago there hadn't been the biggest terrorists attack on our country which killed thousands of people either. Ironically, a lot of people who oppose this type of thing are the same people who were up in arms about guys getting on a plane with box cutters and taking over 4 planes about 10 years ago

INTIMADATOR2007
07-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Lulled to sleep. You are all being lulled to sleep.

25 years ago you could get on a plane with hardly a nod, 10 years ago a simple metal detector and Xray of your bag would suffice. Now they are strip searching old ladies and 3 year old children and people actually argue that it is OK as long as it protects us.

In 5 years you will need to arrive at the airport 3 hours early for your mandatory full strip search, full cavity search including Xrays and 1 hour personality interview before you will be allowed to fly, and some of you will say it is OK because it is protecting you from harm.

These people are not protecting you, they are stripping away your civil liberties. They are convincing you to voluntarily give up your inalienable freedoms all in the name of safety and you do it without hesitation or a second thought.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.-Thomas Jefferson



Lulled to sleep....
Fantastic !!

habsheaven
07-02-2011, 12:55 PM
Has anyone thought of the alternative? Let's go back to the security measures of 15 years ago, terrorists, or anyone with a beef, can blow up planes month in and month out. I wonder how many peope will choose to fly then? What will that do to the airline industry? The price of a ticket? Tourism dollars? Etc? Etc? Etc?

I think I can live with Granny being searched. If she can't, she should take a car, bus or train to get where she's going.

andrewhoya
07-02-2011, 12:59 PM
Has anyone thought of the alternative? Let's go back to the security measures of 15 years ago, terrorists, or anyone with a beef, can blow up planes month in and month out. I wonder how many peope will choose to fly then? What will that do to the airline industry? The price of a ticket? Tourism dollars? Etc? Etc? Etc?


Thank you. We agree for once :party0053:

mrveggieman
07-02-2011, 02:11 PM
Has anyone thought of the alternative? Let's go back to the security measures of 15 years ago, terrorists, or anyone with a beef, can blow up planes month in and month out. I wonder how many peope will choose to fly then? What will that do to the airline industry? The price of a ticket? Tourism dollars? Etc? Etc? Etc?

I think I can live with Granny being searched. If she can't, she should take a car, bus or train to get where she's going.


Would you be ok if that were your mother, grandmother or aunt being strip searched and humiliated?

andrewhoya
07-02-2011, 02:45 PM
Would you be ok if that were your mother, grandmother or aunt being strip searched and humiliated?

Yep, because I would realize the fact that the security people are doing their jobs.

habsheaven
07-02-2011, 03:48 PM
Would you be ok if that were your mother, grandmother or aunt being strip searched and humiliated?

Absolutely! And where is the humiliation? You choose to travel this way, you subject yourself to these searches. No different than visiting your doctor and having to disrobe. There should be no humiliation, everyone is just doing there job.

duane1969
07-02-2011, 11:09 PM
So, you are saying, the TSA is doing NOTHING to protect us at all?

I didn't say anything like that. Do not put words in my mouth and then expect me to justify it.

I'm sure I could come up with a list of 100 things that the government does to strip our civil liberties. Searching people to make sure they are safely boarding a plane that could be used to create a massive terror plot IS NOT one of them.

News flash, TSA is an extension of the governemnt. No need to think of hundreds of things that the government does, just think of TSA.

Another news flash for ya, illegal search IS a removal of your civil liberties. And before you question whther or not it is illegal, any search that is not justified is illegal. And please don't try to tell me how the TSA was justified in searching a 4 year old little girl because nobody is stupid enough to believe that she was hiding an AK-47 in her My Little Pony panties.

Call me crazy, but I now hope that one day a granny or a toddler is stripped with some explosive by a terrorist and is brainwashed to try to carry out a terror plot to prove that anything is possible and that terrorists will use any means possible to carry out what they are trying to do.

That is one of the most foolish things I have seen on here in a while, not going to respond.

If you think our TSA are complete whackjobs, then go to another country where they just let people onto planes, and you end up sitting next to a convicted terrorist.

Ironically, it seems that there is never a plane blown up in the Middle East. Try explaining that one to me...

Also, if the TSA security people are not trying to protect us by searching old or young people, then what are they trying to do? I'm interested to see what you can try to come up with.

It is called an Overton Window. The more they convince you to accept now then the more you will be willing to accept later. It is a gradual infringement on your rights that you never see coming because it happens over time.



Except... you can choose not to go through these searches by choosing not to fly. I have no problem with these kinds of things... 10 years ago you could walk into a baseball game without having your bag looked into... 10 years ago you could walk into a mall without going through a metal detector and a security guard being at the door... 10 years ago there hadn't been the biggest terrorists attack on our country which killed thousands of people either. Ironically, a lot of people who oppose this type of thing are the same people who were up in arms about guys getting on a plane with box cutters and taking over 4 planes about 10 years ago

Today it is just one airline, tomorrow it is two. In a few months it is three and before you know it all airlines are searching everyone. Then what?

What happens when a terrorist uses a bus to kill people? Strip searches to ride the bus? What if the terrorist hijacks a subway? Strip searches to ride the subway? Where does it end?

And actually, 10 years ago there had been an attack on our country using airplanes but somehow they didn't get around to doing the searches until the last year or so. Why is that? If the searches are about plane security as a result of 9/11 then why did they wait a decade to do it? Why not start the day after 9/11? Hint, it is not about 9/11.


Absolutely! And where is the humiliation? You choose to travel this way, you subject yourself to these searches. No different than visiting your doctor and having to disrobe. There should be no humiliation, everyone is just doing there job.

I disagree. My doctor does not strip search me, he examines me because of a medical need and he only examines the parts that need examined, not my entire body. BIG difference.

My doctor also went to school for 8+ years to get his job and become a doctor. On the flip side, Bubba Jones, who just had a good time strip searching your wife or daughter, didn't have to do anything but pass a background check, and we all know how accurate and dependable those are, right? BIG difference.

And third, I have a choice to not let my doctor examine me. If he walks in and says "Take off your pants" and I refuse then that is the end of it. In contrast, once you enter the plane loading area and they begin scanning and searching, you have no choice. If you refuse to be scanned or searched you are immediately arrested. BIG difference.

tutall
07-03-2011, 12:08 AM
Today it is just one airline, tomorrow it is two. In a few months it is three and before you know it all airlines are searching everyone. Then what?

What happens when a terrorist uses a bus to kill people? Strip searches to ride the bus? What if the terrorist hijacks a subway? Strip searches to ride the subway? Where does it end?

And actually, 10 years ago there had been an attack on our country using airplanes but somehow they didn't get around to doing the searches until the last year or so. Why is that? If the searches are about plane security as a result of 9/11 then why did they wait a decade to do it? Why not start the day after 9/11? Hint, it is not about 9/11.

And third, I have a choice to not let my doctor examine me. If he walks in and says "Take off your pants" and I refuse then that is the end of it. In contrast, once you enter the plane loading area and they begin scanning and searching, you have no choice. If you refuse to be scanned or searched you are immediately arrested. BIG difference.

Who cares about what airline it is... You know why planes in the middle east dont blow up? People dont hate other middle eastern countries... They hate us which gives us a little more need for security. As far as searches as the bus stop or the subway... if a terrorist attack happens there and they deem it necessary to search passengers sure... you still have the freedom not to ride mass transit... I get in my truck every day and never have a problem carrying my shotgun with me or a box cutter, my hunting knife, anything... That is my mode of transportation and there is no interference at all.

If it isnt about 9/11 or other terrorism what exactly do you think the government is trying to accomplish by searching at airports?

andrewhoya
07-03-2011, 09:50 AM
So, you are saying, the TSA is doing NOTHING to protect us at all?

I didn't say anything like that. Do not put words in my mouth and then expect me to justify it.

I'm sure I could come up with a list of 100 things that the government does to strip our civil liberties. Searching people to make sure they are safely boarding a plane that could be used to create a massive terror plot IS NOT one of them.

News flash, TSA is an extension of the governemnt. No need to think of hundreds of things that the government does, just think of TSA.

Another news flash for ya, illegal search IS a removal of your civil liberties. And before you question whther or not it is illegal, any search that is not justified is illegal. And please don't try to tell me how the TSA was justified in searching a 4 year old little girl because nobody is stupid enough to believe that she was hiding an AK-47 in her My Little Pony panties.

Call me crazy, but I now hope that one day a granny or a toddler is stripped with some explosive by a terrorist and is brainwashed to try to carry out a terror plot to prove that anything is possible and that terrorists will use any means possible to carry out what they are trying to do.

That is one of the most foolish things I have seen on here in a while, not going to respond.

If you think our TSA are complete whackjobs, then go to another country where they just let people onto planes, and you end up sitting next to a convicted terrorist.

Ironically, it seems that there is never a plane blown up in the Middle East. Try explaining that one to me...

Also, if the TSA security people are not trying to protect us by searching old or young people, then what are they trying to do? I'm interested to see what you can try to come up with.

It is called an Overton Window. The more they convince you to accept now then the more you will be willing to accept later. It is a gradual infringement on your rights that you never see coming because it happens over time.


You said: "These people are not protecting you". I wasn't putting words in your mouth.


If it is illegal, then how come we don't see hundreds of trials about them?

Tutall explained that one perfectly.


It is called an Overton Window. The more they convince you to accept now then the more you will be willing to accept later. It is a gradual infringement on your rights that you never see coming because it happens over time.
It's not called an Overton Window. It is called common sense. You are looking beyond the points.

Read this up. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3157970,00.html
Maybe then you will realize that things do happen.

Also google "grandmother bomb", or something of the sort.

These things happen.

theonedru
07-03-2011, 12:30 PM
Who cares about what airline it is... You know why planes in the middle east dont blow up? People dont hate other middle eastern countries... They hate us which gives us a little more need for security. As far as searches as the bus stop or the subway... if a terrorist attack happens there and they deem it necessary to search passengers sure... you still have the freedom not to ride mass transit... I get in my truck every day and never have a problem carrying my shotgun with me or a box cutter, my hunting knife, anything... That is my mode of transportation and there is no interference at all.

If it isnt about 9/11 or other terrorism what exactly do you think the government is trying to accomplish by searching at airports?

They hate us because we have a big brother complex and feel the need to stick our noses into other countries affairs and try and boss them around. If we quit doing that and withdrew our troops everywhere and disbanded the CIA and other Gov't factions that backed terrorists then we would have not be having these problems. Unfortunately America is too ignorant to do that.

Zimbow
07-03-2011, 03:34 PM
Lulled to sleep. You are all being lulled to sleep.

25 years ago you could get on a plane with hardly a nod, 10 years ago a simple metal detector and Xray of your bag would suffice. Now they are strip searching old ladies and 3 year old children and people actually argue that it is OK as long as it protects us.

In 5 years you will need to arrive at the airport 3 hours early for your mandatory full strip search, full cavity search including Xrays and 1 hour personality interview before you will be allowed to fly, and some of you will say it is OK because it is protecting you from harm.

These people are not protecting you, they are stripping away your civil liberties. They are convincing you to voluntarily give up your inalienable freedoms all in the name of safety and you do it without hesitation or a second thought.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.-Thomas Jefferson



Lulled to sleep....


You forgot this one: “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety” – Benjamin Franklin

duane1969
07-03-2011, 04:37 PM
If it isnt about 9/11 or other terrorism what exactly do you think the government is trying to accomplish by searching at airports?

1) The almighty dollar. Who owns the companies that make the scanners and what politician are they friends with? How many people were hired to beef up TSA security (government getting bigger) and who owns the uniform company or the handscanner company...you can bet that somebody is getting rich from it or it wouldn't be happening.

2) A gradual removal of your right to refuse to be searched. At the airport, once you pass a certain point, you either submit to the search or you are arrested. Soon it will be the bus stations and subway stations and people will still argue that it isn't that big of a deal because it is for our safety. Eventually you will be pulled over randomly and have your car searched and it will be OK because they already do it at the airport, bus station and subway...and it is for your safety.







If it is illegal, then how come we don't see hundreds of trials about them?


It's not called an Overton Window. It is called common sense. You are looking beyond the points.

Read this up. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3157970,00.html
Maybe then you will realize that things do happen.

Also google "grandmother bomb", or something of the sort.

These things happen.

We don't see lawsuits (not trials) because most people have either been groomed to just accept it or they are too stupid to realize that being given a choice of a "search or jail" is a violation of their 4th Amendment rights.

Clearly you do not understand what an Overton Window is. Forget it.

andrewhoya
07-03-2011, 04:39 PM
We don't see lawsuits (not trials) because most people have either been groomed to just accept it or they are too stupid to realize that being given a choice of a "search or jail" is a violation of their 4th Amendment rights.

Clearly you do not understand what an Overton Window is. Forget it.

It is NOT called "search or jail". It is called "search or drive".

And BTW, I know as much about Overton Window as you know about this topic.

tutall
07-03-2011, 05:46 PM
They hate us because we have a big brother complex and feel the need to stick our noses into other countries affairs and try and boss them around. If we quit doing that and withdrew our troops everywhere and disbanded the CIA and other Gov't factions that backed terrorists then we would have not be having these problems. Unfortunately America is too ignorant to do that.

First off i somewhat agree with you but the middle east has hated the west far before we stuck our noses in other peoples business... Muslims and Christians have warred for thousands of years..

theonedru
07-03-2011, 09:59 PM
First off i somewhat agree with you but the middle east has hated the west far before we stuck our noses in other peoples business... Muslims and Christians have warred for thousands of years..

But until recently while America has been riding its high horse practically forcing itself to go in where it doesn't belong has it been happening, hence get out and leave them be and it will be much better.

America puts Saddam into power, people die and they hate us.
America puts Pinochet in to power, he kills his own and they hate us.

Quit doing things like this and they will quit looking for revenge

Also recognize the fact that the CIA is a terrorist organization funded and run by good ole USA

duane1969
07-03-2011, 11:16 PM
It is NOT called "search or jail". It is called "search or drive".

And BTW, I know as much about Overton Window as you know about this topic.

Incorrect. Once you pass a certain point in the boarding process your right to choose is taken away. If you enter the area where they conduct searches/scans and you refuse and try to leave then you are "detained for questioning" which is a nice way of saying that you arrested without that whole nasty Miranda rights thingy to get in the way.

As for the Overton Window thing, I wasn't trying to be rude. You don't seem to grasp the concept. It is widely accepted as being commonly used in the media. I didn't just make it up. If you don't believe me just Google it. And I know quite a bit about this subject.

tutall
07-04-2011, 12:58 AM
But until recently while America has been riding its high horse practically forcing itself to go in where it doesn't belong has it been happening, hence get out and leave them be and it will be much better.

America puts Saddam into power, people die and they hate us.
America puts Pinochet in to power, he kills his own and they hate us.

Quit doing things like this and they will quit looking for revenge

Also recognize the fact that the CIA is a terrorist organization funded and run by good ole USA

I agree but I fail to see what it has to do with this specific question regarding a search of an old woman. As it stands right now would you agree it is safer to fly with these restrictions in place than without them?

redsoxx11
07-04-2011, 01:02 AM
Incorrect. Once you pass a certain point in the boarding process your right to choose is taken away. If you enter the area where they conduct searches/scans and you refuse and try to leave then you are "detained for questioning" which is a nice way of saying that you arrested without that whole nasty Miranda rights thingy to get in the way.

As for the Overton Window thing, I wasn't trying to be rude. You don't seem to grasp the concept. It is widely accepted as being commonly used in the media. I didn't just make it up. If you don't believe me just Google it. And I know quite a bit about this subject.

LOL, do you have any idea why someone would be detained after KNOWING the airport search procedures..... Why would someone elect to try and leave, after having checked in luggage...I mean it's literaly day 1 anti-terror stuff, you should be able to figure it out.

andrewhoya
07-04-2011, 09:19 AM
Incorrect. Once you pass a certain point in the boarding process your right to choose is taken away. If you enter the area where they conduct searches/scans and you refuse and try to leave then you are "detained for questioning" which is a nice way of saying that you arrested without that whole nasty Miranda rights thingy to get in the way.



Eh, not really. Detailed for questioning makes total sense if you think about it.

If someone is going to walk away from a screening or search, obviously they have something to hide. So, they question them immediately. Why? It's because if they DO have something, and know the scanner would put it off, you really think they'd stop there? They'd walk away and do something with it. They could go drop the bomb or whatever it is in a bathroom or something and blow up the airport.


Also, I have this question for you:

If you don't agree with the searching, how do you want TSA to stop terrorists from boarding?


As for the window, thing, youre right, I don't get it, and pretty much couldn't care less about it. :)

duane1969
07-05-2011, 03:05 PM
Eh, not really. Detailed for questioning makes total sense if you think about it.

If someone is going to walk away from a screening or search, obviously they have something to hide. So, they question them immediately. Why? It's because if they DO have something, and know the scanner would put it off, you really think they'd stop there? They'd walk away and do something with it. They could go drop the bomb or whatever it is in a bathroom or something and blow up the airport.


Also, I have this question for you:

If you don't agree with the searching, how do you want TSA to stop terrorists from boarding?


As for the window, thing, youre right, I don't get it, and pretty much couldn't care less about it. :)

I am not saying it doesn't make sense to detain for questioning but you can't tell me that it makes sense that you will be detained for questioning because you changed your mind. Maybe you are nervous, not feeling well, got an emergency phone call and have to return home, have a physical deformity that you are uncomfortable with others seeing...I don't know, but the simple reality is that you are treated as if you have done wrong without having actually done something wrong. I have a problem with that.

duane1969
07-05-2011, 03:07 PM
LOL, do you have any idea why someone would be detained after KNOWING the airport search procedures..... Why would someone elect to try and leave, after having checked in luggage...I mean it's literaly day 1 anti-terror stuff, you should be able to figure it out.

Maybe they are disgusted by the sight of a TSA employee searching a 98 year old woman in a wheelchair. It's called freedom to choose. As long as my choice harms no one else then I should not be detained and questioned because I exercised that right.

andrewhoya
07-05-2011, 03:17 PM
I am not saying it doesn't make sense to detain for questioning but you can't tell me that it makes sense that you will be detained for questioning because you changed your mind. Maybe you are nervous, not feeling well, got an emergency phone call and have to return home, have a physical deformity that you are uncomfortable with others seeing...I don't know, but the simple reality is that you are treated as if you have done wrong without having actually done something wrong. I have a problem with that.

If they had nothing to hide, then I am sure they would have no problems answering questions.

redsoxx11
07-05-2011, 04:11 PM
People are free to take a bus instead of an Plane.

trying to get out of a security screening is one of the 1st signs you may be doing something wrong.

Once again this is BASIC anti-terror/security doctorine, nothing advanced here.

Star_Cards
07-05-2011, 04:39 PM
I agree resoxx. when flying there are some things you know that you have to do. Going through security is one and being searched once you get in that line is something everyone should know could happen.

Tivo32
07-05-2011, 10:59 PM
I have flown close to 20 times (if not more) since 9/11 and have never had a single problem. I never felt that I had any of my civil liberties violated and I was always treated with respect. The few times I was patted down the person doing it was respectful and appropriate. It seems like the media gets a hold of 1 story and blows it way out of proportion and we forget the millions of people who go through security every, single day and don't have any problems in the process.

andrewhoya
07-06-2011, 12:12 AM
I have flown close to 20 times (if not more) since 9/11 and have never had a single problem. I never felt that I had any of my civil liberties violated and I was always treated with respect. The few times I was patted down the person doing it was respectful and appropriate. It seems like the media gets a hold of 1 story and blows it way out of proportion and we forget the millions of people who go through security every, single day and don't have any problems in the process.

Ive flown probably 35 times, and have never had a problem, either, at any of the 6-7 airports I've flown from.