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View Full Version : The best argument for gay marriage or equal rights in general ever...



theonedru
07-01-2011, 02:59 PM
Funny but makes a very valid point

http://www.happyplace.com/8552/sign-urges-us-to-blame-straight-people-for-gay-babies

sanfran22
07-01-2011, 03:35 PM
On the flip side if everyone were gay, there would be no babies period....

gatorboymike
07-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Cue the FHRs (Freedom-Hating Regressives) to come in riding their Mad Max-style death bikes made entirely out of Bibles, braying and screeching about "choice."


On the flip side if everyone were gay, there would be no babies period....

Your grasp of both biology and sociology leaves much to be desired.

theonedru
07-01-2011, 04:04 PM
On the flip side if everyone were gay, there would be no babies period....

On the flip to the flip side if everyone were a fish there would still be babies just no human babies. See I to can make ridiculous statements that make no impact on the initial statement. Try using more valid points.

mrveggieman
07-01-2011, 04:11 PM
People trip me out with the if everyone one was gay argument. People have been gay since day one. It's even in the bible. People have continued to make babies despite a percentage of the population being gay. Yes I agree with sanfran that being gay is morally wrong but everyone on this site has done something in their life at one point or another that is morrally wrong. People please get your own affairs in order before you worry about someone elses. There are much more important things going on in our society today.

theonedru
07-01-2011, 04:18 PM
People trip me out with the if everyone one was gay argument. People have been gay since day one. It's even in the bible. People have continued to make babies despite a percentage of the population being gay. Yes I agree with sanfran that being gay is morally wrong but everyone on this site has done something in their life at one point or another that is morrally wrong. People please get your own affairs in order before you worry about someone elses. There are much more important things going on in our society today.

Without using any religious reasoning please inform me of how being gay is morally wrong, tell me how these people are immoral for just being born the way they are?

sanfran22
07-01-2011, 04:21 PM
Without using any religious reasoning please inform me of how being gay is morally wrong, tell me how these people are immoral for just being born the way they are?
Because they are not born that way...try to follow.

sanfran22
07-01-2011, 04:22 PM
On the flip to the flip side if everyone were a fish there would still be babies just no human babies. See I to can make ridiculous statements that make no impact on the initial statement. Try using more valid points.
Lol, you think the billboard is valid? You are more screwed up then I thought.

gatorboymike
07-01-2011, 04:23 PM
Because they are not born that way...try to follow.

See, I told you these would be coming.

sanfran22
07-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Cue the FHRs (Freedom-Hating Regressives) to come in riding their Mad Max-style death bikes made entirely out of Bibles, braying and screeching about "choice."



Your grasp of both biology and sociology leaves much to be desired.
You have no clue what you're talking about, as usual. When you can explain how it biologically works being gay, I may listen to something you say. Is this what they are teaching you in school?..thanks for showing up though.

gatorboymike
07-01-2011, 04:31 PM
You have no clue what you're talking about, as usual. When you can explain how it biologically works being gay, I may listen to something you say. Is this what they are teaching you in school?..thanks for showing up though.

You listen to something not written by Glenn Beck or a medieval goat herder? Suuuuuuure.

You seem to think that gay = sterile. There's nothing stopping them from having babies if they really wanted to. No clue indeed.

mrveggieman
07-01-2011, 04:43 PM
Without using any religious reasoning please inform me of how being gay is morally wrong, tell me how these people are immoral for just being born the way they are?


Alot of our morals are based on religious concepts. It would be impossible to seperate one from the other. Being gay is prohibited by some religions. I do have a relationship with God but I also support and defend freedom of religion (or the freedom not to have one at all) and freedom of choice of what to do with your OWN life. I believe that people do have the legal right to be gay and that the gov't has no place judging because the gov't is not right themselves. At the end God will deal with anything that he is displeased with. Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

gatorboymike
07-01-2011, 04:48 PM
Alot of our morals are based on religious concepts. It would be impossible to seperate one from the other. Being gay is prohibited by some religions. I do have a relationship with God but I also support and defend freedom of religion (or the freedom not to have one at all) and freedom of choice of what to do with your OWN life. I believe that people do have the legal right to be gay and that the gov't has no place judging because the gov't is not right themselves. At the end God will deal with anything that he is displeased with. Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

You have a lot in common with this guy...

http://www.nndb.com/people/908/000025833/FredPhelps.jpg

mrveggieman
07-01-2011, 04:54 PM
You have a lot in common with this guy...

http://www.nndb.com/people/908/000025833/FredPhelps.jpg


Sanfran22 and I have nothing in common! :sign0020:

sanfran22
07-01-2011, 05:35 PM
You listen to something not written by Glenn Beck or a medieval goat herder? Suuuuuuure.

You seem to think that gay = sterile. There's nothing stopping them from having babies if they really wanted to. No clue indeed.
So you actually know of an instance where 2 woman or 2 men naturally had a child together? Please do enlighten us to that info.....

sanfran22
07-01-2011, 05:37 PM
Sanfran22 and I have nothing in common! :sign0020:
I think that guy is like 3 times my age....But you're right about one thing....You do lack common sense.:winking0071:

theonedru
07-01-2011, 08:09 PM
Because they are not born that way...try to follow.

So the people that were murdered because they were gay then chose to die, or the people who took their own lives chose to because they chose to be gay, or the people that are constantly tormented on a daily basis choose this!! I think not, go tell your argument to the families of these people that it was their chose to no longer be alive......

theonedru
07-01-2011, 08:11 PM
Alot of our morals are based on religious concepts. It would be impossible to seperate one from the other. Being gay is prohibited by some religions. I do have a relationship with God but I also support and defend freedom of religion (or the freedom not to have one at all) and freedom of choice of what to do with your OWN life. I believe that people do have the legal right to be gay and that the gov't has no place judging because the gov't is not right themselves. At the end God will deal with anything that he is displeased with. Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

And yet you judge these people because you deem them immoral because some book written by some people told you to.....

ensbergcollector
07-01-2011, 09:28 PM
So the people that were murdered because they were gay then chose to die, or the people who took their own lives chose to because they chose to be gay, or the people that are constantly tormented on a daily basis choose this!! I think not, go tell your argument to the families of these people that it was their chose to no longer be alive......

i don't always agree with you but you usually make rational arguments so I can follow you without much debate. However, this post makes no sense at all. If someone says that a person chose to be gay, does not equal someone chose to get murdered or chose to be tormented. And, unfortunately, if someone takes their own life, then by definition yes, they chose to.
People get harassed to various degrees based on choices they make. Doesn't mean they are choosing to be harassed. Let's take something much more lighthearted. When star trek fans chose to dress up for conventions they are not saying they want to be harassed or made fun of. They are saying that the choice they are making is worth the consequences.
Now, I am not getting into the argument of whether people choose homosexuality or not because nothing anyone says on either side is going to convince anyone. However, your post was way off base IMO.

ensbergcollector
07-01-2011, 09:29 PM
Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

And yet you judge these people because you deem them immoral because some book written by some people told you to.....

sorry, you can't quote the bible to make a point when you don't believe in the bible.

theonedru
07-01-2011, 09:56 PM
i don't always agree with you but you usually make rational arguments so I can follow you without much debate. However, this post makes no sense at all. If someone says that a person chose to be gay, does not equal someone chose to get murdered or chose to be tormented. And, unfortunately, if someone takes their own life, then by definition yes, they chose to.
People get harassed to various degrees based on choices they make. Doesn't mean they are choosing to be harassed. Let's take something much more lighthearted. When star trek fans chose to dress up for conventions they are not saying they want to be harassed or made fun of. They are saying that the choice they are making is worth the consequences.
Now, I am not getting into the argument of whether people choose homosexuality or not because nothing anyone says on either side is going to convince anyone. However, your post was way off base IMO.

This was just in response to someone saying that homosexuality isnt a choice when there is way too much proof otherwise. I just get overheated due to the number of gay friends I had that are no longer here because of senseless dribble like that. I grew up with a kid who knew he was different and soon realized he was gay and because he was different people tormented him to the point where he couldn't take it and he ended his life with a shotgun blast to the head. You think if he had a choice he would have just been straight instead of putting up with the garbage to the point of him rather being dead then crucified.Then multiply him by tens of thousands who were either murdered by people because of their choice or who were driven to end it all rather than live with all the hatred and bigotry..... Is that fair? Just because a book says its wrong doesn't make it so.

ensbergcollector
07-02-2011, 12:37 AM
This was just in response to someone saying that homosexuality isnt a choice when there is way too much proof otherwise. I just get overheated due to the number of gay friends I had that are no longer here because of senseless dribble like that. I grew up with a kid who knew he was different and soon realized he was gay and because he was different people tormented him to the point where he couldn't take it and he ended his life with a shotgun blast to the head. You think if he had a choice he would have just been straight instead of putting up with the garbage to the point of him rather being dead then crucified.Then multiply him by tens of thousands who were either murdered by people because of their choice or who were driven to end it all rather than live with all the hatred and bigotry..... Is that fair? Just because a book says its wrong doesn't make it so.

totally understand and never said it was fair. I might disagree with it, but I have had numerous homosexual friends and all would attest that my opinion of their lifestyle never hindered our ability to be friends. Thanks for your clarification.

mrveggieman
07-02-2011, 12:28 PM
I think that guy is like 3 times my age....But you're right about one thing....You do lack common sense.:winking0071:


And this is coming from a guy who voted for Bush?? And which one of us dosen't have common sense again???

mrveggieman
07-02-2011, 12:50 PM
But seriously getting back to the previous two posts no one should have to take their own life because of the lifestyle that they lead. Any who ridicules, tourments, abuses or kills someone because of their sexual prefrence is not a real christian, muslim, jew, etc. Are gays born that way or is it a choice? I really don't know. If people would get their own affairs in order instead of worrying about what goes on in another consenting adult's bedroom the world would be a better place. Let go and let God.

brandonbarnett
07-03-2011, 03:02 AM
To me it doesn't matter if someone is Gay or Straight, if they wanna get married or not....never once has it caused me not to feed my kids or pay my bills.......is it immoral can't say I don't live in a "gay" person's head... it may say its wrong in the bible, but doesn't it also say do unto others, well then if they done nothing to you why "pick" on them? Aren't you supposed to love one another??

MadMan1978
07-03-2011, 10:39 AM
To me it doesn't matter if someone is Gay or Straight, if they wanna get married or not....never once has it caused me not to feed my kids or pay my bills.......is it immoral can't say I don't live in a "gay" person's head... it may say its wrong in the bible, but doesn't it also say do unto others, well then if they done nothing to you why "pick" on them? Aren't you supposed to love one another??

First I thin we should speak to Luc about adding a "like" button-

Excellent point!

+1

duane1969
07-03-2011, 11:51 PM
First let me preface this by saying that a few of the comments here lately have been a bit snippy and meant to be backhanded insults. It stops now. Either discuss the subject with respect for others or do not discuss it.

-----------------------------

As for the sign, well that is just stupid. Babies are not born gay. Babies don't have the intellect necessary to understand the concept of sexuality or homosexuality. Babies want 3 things, food, sleep and a clean diaper. They are not gay or straight, they are babies.

Also, the idea that only straight people have "gay babies" is pretty stupid too. Do gay people only produce straight children? Whoever wrote that sign didn't put much logical thought into it.

--------------------------------


To me it doesn't matter if someone is Gay or Straight, if they wanna get married or not....never once has it caused me not to feed my kids or pay my bills.......is it immoral can't say I don't live in a "gay" person's head... it may say its wrong in the bible, but doesn't it also say do unto others, well then if they done nothing to you why "pick" on them? Aren't you supposed to love one another??

I hear the whole "do unto others" argument used a lot as a defense for homosexuality against religion. It is a pretty poor attempt to use religion against itself.

The statement is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" not "accept what others do no matter how wrong you think it is". See the difference? Do unto others has nothing to do with accepting their flaws.

If "do unto others" is an argument that homosexuality is OK then it is also an argument that murder and speeding are OK too. Just because we disagree with killing or driving 140MPH doesn't mean it is wrong. It is their choice and we should accept them for who they are...do unto others, right?

redsoxx11
07-04-2011, 12:35 AM
First let me preface this by saying that a few of the comments here lately have been a bit snippy and meant to be backhanded insults. It stops now. Either discuss the subject with respect for others or do not discuss it.

-----------------------------

As for the sign, well that is just stupid. Babies are not born gay. Babies don't have the intellect necessary to understand the concept of sexuality or homosexuality. Babies want 3 things, food, sleep and a clean diaper. They are not gay or straight, they are babies.

Also, the idea that only straight people have "gay babies" is pretty stupid too. Do gay people only produce straight children? Whoever wrote that sign didn't put much logical thought into it.

--------------------------------



I hear the whole "do unto others" argument used a lot as a defense for homosexuality against religion. It is a pretty poor attempt to use religion against itself.

The statement is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" not "accept what others do no matter how wrong you think it is". See the difference? Do unto others has nothing to do with accepting their flaws.

If "do unto others" is an argument that homosexuality is OK then it is also an argument that murder and speeding are OK too. Just because we disagree with killing or driving 140MPH doesn't mean it is wrong. It is their choice and we should accept them for who they are...do unto others, right?

It takes a special kind of person to try and conflate accepting homosexuality to being accepting of a person drunk driving and killing someone.

brandonbarnett
07-04-2011, 06:50 PM
@Duane1969

But killing is doing something to someone, and some not all have it done back to them,
Speeding is wrong by mans law.....so that doesn't quite fit.....

Being Gay is a lifestyle...it may be by choice or situation....I didn't use "Do unto others" as to show accepting being gay, but merely saying why pick on or hate on someone when they haven't done something to you....

habsheaven
07-04-2011, 09:45 PM
As for the sign, well that is just stupid. Babies are not born gay. Babies don't have the intellect necessary to understand the concept of sexuality or homosexuality. Babies want 3 things, food, sleep and a clean diaper. They are not gay or straight, they are babies.


Duane, at what time in their development can we call an individual gay or straight? When did you BECOME straight? When did you make that decision to be straight? I can tell you I became straight when I was approximately 4 years old. Funny thing is, I do not remember CHOOSING. You do not need a concept of sexuality to be one or the other.


Also, the idea that only straight people have "gay babies" is pretty stupid too. Do gay people only produce straight children? Whoever wrote that sign didn't put much logical thought into it.


I believe the sign was referring to the FACT that most gays have heterosexual parents. I am also pretty sure the sign is meant to be funny. Logic doesn't play well when trying to be funny.

Star_Cards
07-05-2011, 11:07 AM
Funny but makes a very valid point

http://www.happyplace.com/8552/sign-urges-us-to-blame-straight-people-for-gay-babies

I've heard that before and think it's dang funny, but when you are dealing with people that think you choose to be attracted to the same sex they will find away to explain it in their own minds. Although, funny, I don't know if it's the best argument. The best argument would be that of allowing the same rights to every human being rather than just a select group who follow the status quo.

Star_Cards
07-05-2011, 11:18 AM
People trip me out with the if everyone one was gay argument. People have been gay since day one. It's even in the bible. People have continued to make babies despite a percentage of the population being gay. Yes I agree with sanfran that being gay is morally wrong but everyone on this site has done something in their life at one point or another that is morrally wrong. People please get your own affairs in order before you worry about someone elses. There are much more important things going on in our society today.

Good point. there were obviously gay people around when people wrote the bible or they wouldn't have included it. I'd bet that people were much more tolerant towards them back then too. I'd assume some of them were maybe even killed because of it. If that threat isn't enough to make someone straight I don't know what is. [think sarcasm]

It may be morally wrong under your standards of morals, but why do people think think their way is the only set of morals that should be followed. Are people that egotistical to think that their morals are the best or only way to live? Not every U.S. citizen follows the same set of morals and the laws shouldn't be structured under one single set.

Star_Cards
07-05-2011, 11:20 AM
Lol, you think the billboard is valid? You are more screwed up then I thought.

the billboard is 100% true that straight couples have gay babies.

Star_Cards
07-05-2011, 11:25 AM
So you actually know of an instance where 2 woman or 2 men naturally had a child together? Please do enlighten us to that info.....

he says that even while being gay they could still have babies. I am friends with a lesbian couple and they have 6 kids from artificial insemination. They didn't have babies from one another, but are biologically able to do so. I guess what he's saying is that even if everyone were gay there still could be babies born... although then I guess that those that did have babies would be bi-sexual potentially.

Star_Cards
07-05-2011, 11:29 AM
So the people that were murdered because they were gay then chose to die, or the people who took their own lives chose to because they chose to be gay, or the people that are constantly tormented on a daily basis choose this!! I think not, go tell your argument to the families of these people that it was their chose to no longer be alive......

This is one major part to the choice theory. If I'm attracted to blonde women and people hated me for that to the point where they would disown me or murder me because of it, I think at some point I'd be able to switch to liking brunettes... if it were that easy I think a lot of homosexuals would rather conform than be tormented by who and what they are attracted to.

Star_Cards
07-05-2011, 11:32 AM
sorry, you can't quote the bible to make a point when you don't believe in the bible.

this is the perfect statement, but sadly most believers of the bible can't wrap their head around it. I just had a discussion about this over the weekend and the person couldn't understand why I didn't believe.

redsoxx11
07-05-2011, 11:34 AM
This is one major part to the choice theory. If I'm attracted to blonde women and people hated me for that to the point where they would disown me or murder me because of it, I think at some point I'd be able to switch to liking brunettes... if it were that easy I think a lot of homosexuals would rather conform than be tormented by who and what they are attracted to.

Star, there is no point in arguing about it with people who use biblical scripture as a source/reason for not allowing gay and lesbian people the same rights as straight people. it would be like me trying to tell you you can't eat ham because Dr. Suess says you can't eat it with green eggs...

mrveggieman
07-05-2011, 11:47 AM
Star, there is no point in arguing about it with people who use biblical scripture as a source/reason for not allowing gay and lesbian people the same rights as straight people. it would be like me trying to tell you you can't eat ham because Dr. Suess says you can't eat it with green eggs...

+1

Also if I could add my two cents alot of the same people who are against gay marriage are also against interracial relationships because they claim that the bible speaks against it. Nowadays racism is not socially acceptable but gay bashing is still accepted to a certian point so they focus all of their racial hatred towards gays. SMH

duane1969
07-05-2011, 02:48 PM
It takes a special kind of person to try and conflate accepting homosexuality to being accepting of a person drunk driving and killing someone.

Did I say that? You should re-read what I posted and try to leave your assumptions out of it.

duane1969
07-05-2011, 02:56 PM
Duane, at what time in their development can we call an individual gay or straight? When did you BECOME straight? When did you make that decision to be straight? I can tell you I became straight when I was approximately 4 years old. Funny thing is, I do not remember CHOOSING. You do not need a concept of sexuality to be one or the other.



I believe the sign was referring to the FACT that most gays have heterosexual parents. I am also pretty sure the sign is meant to be funny. Logic doesn't play well when trying to be funny.

Just like you guys like to nitpick things that conservatives say/do, we like to do the same thing. Last time I checked babies are neither straight or gay so saying that straight people have gay babies is pretty stupid IMO.

I would agree that it is a FACT that most gays have straight parents since logic dictates that it takes a hetero act to procreate. That does not mean that the only people who have gay children are straight. If a gay man and gay woman decide they want to procreate then their child is just as likely to be gay as that of a straight couple.

habsheaven
07-05-2011, 03:11 PM
Just like you guys like to nitpick things that conservatives say/do, we like to do the same thing. Last time I checked babies are neither straight or gay so saying that straight people have gay babies is pretty stupid IMO.

I would argue that they are, they just don't know it yet. Much like they may be a brunette, but start out with blonde hair.

redsoxx11
07-05-2011, 03:13 PM
Just like you guys like to nitpick things that conservatives say/do, we like to do the same thing. Last time I checked babies are neither straight or gay so saying that straight people have gay babies is pretty stupid IMO.

I would agree that it is a FACT that most gays have straight parents since logic dictates that it takes a hetero act to procreate. That does not mean that the only people who have gay children are straight. If a gay man and gay woman decide they want to procreate then their child is just as likely to be gay as that of a straight couple.

You're not being nitpicky, you're being ignorant

redsoxx11
07-05-2011, 03:14 PM
What amazes me is that so many conservaties are against gay marrige when marrige is just a contract between 2 parties in a free market

duane1969
07-05-2011, 03:38 PM
You're not being nitpicky, you're being ignorant

Please take the time to read this:

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1234725

PM coming shortly.

redsoxx11
07-05-2011, 03:42 PM
Please take the time to read this:

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1234725

PM coming shortly.

Saying you are being ignorant is not name calling, it's a sound deduction as to your ability to reasonably grasp the meaning of that sign. If someone is outside in the sun and I tell them they are sweaty, I'm not calling them a smelly mess, I am just letting them know there current state of being.

jlzinck
07-05-2011, 03:45 PM
I think liberals should agree to outlaw abortion so MORE gay babies will be born and really tick off the conservatives.......:sign0020:

How's that sound?

sanfran22
07-05-2011, 03:48 PM
I think liberals should agree to outlaw abortion so MORE gay babies will be born and really tick off the conservatives.......:sign0020:

How's that sound?
LOL, I'll take that....:sign0020:

redsoxx11
07-05-2011, 03:49 PM
I think liberals should agree to outlaw abortion so MORE gay babies will be born and really tick off the conservatives.......:sign0020:

How's that sound?

But according to them babies are not born that way, so how would you find the gay babies?

Star_Cards
07-05-2011, 05:15 PM
I think liberals should agree to outlaw abortion so MORE gay babies will be born and really tick off the conservatives.......:sign0020:

How's that sound?

or worse... gay babies on welfare. lol

redsoxx11
07-05-2011, 05:18 PM
or worse... gay babies on welfare. lol

Gay babies on welfare driving around in power wheels that use bio fuels

Tivo32
07-05-2011, 10:19 PM
Do you (you being general) think we do more harm than good by arguing whether or not homosexuals are born homosexual or choose to be homosexual? I think it perhaps goes alot deeper than a simple gene or simple choice. Arguing this is almost like trying to argue that African-Americans are born with the ability to play basketball or they choose to be.