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View Full Version : Thoughts on the debt ceiling .



INTIMADATOR2007
07-30-2011, 11:08 PM
Whats your take on what is going on with our out of control congress on both sides of the isle. Dont they understand our country is more important than the next election .

mrveggieman
07-30-2011, 11:21 PM
Whats your take on what is going on with our out of control congress on both sides of the isle. Dont they understand our country is more important than the next election .


I don't think that any politician regardless of their party understands that. :confused0024:

duane1969
07-31-2011, 09:46 PM
If they do their jobs and cut spending (something EVERY politician promises when trying to get elected but never really does) then there would be no need for a debt ceiling because we would not be spending more than is taken in on taxes.

As far as I am concerned, raising the debt ceiling is an admission of intent to continue deficit spending.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 09:22 AM
It's a short thread, but I like it. Both parties are at fault when it comes to overspending, and both were at fault with the debt impasse.

We HAD to raise the ceiling at this point. There was no way around it. You can't come up with a deficit elimination in the span of two months. A lot of people underestimate how bad a US default would have been. In a globalized marketplace, systemic risk is a very powerful thing, as we saw in 2008. The moral of the story in the markets would have been "If the US can default, anyone can".

I sincerely hope that this is a first step towards a more comprehensive budget plan. I was just reading a month or so ago that AARP (who really runs Washington) even admitted that we need to overhaul Social Security and Medicare. They're nothing short of Ponzi schemes, and they promised the American people way more than they can deliver. Hopefully the rest of the Baby Boomers (and those who are even older) can recognize that they too have to make sacrifices, and this includes admission that they can't get everything they were promised, so that the generations below them don't have to bear their entire burden.

Star_Cards
08-04-2011, 12:35 PM
Whats your take on what is going on with our out of control congress on both sides of the isle. Dont they understand our country is more important than the next election .

this is pretty much all they think about. Keeping their job is their typical priority and it shows. I think if they had term limits for every political position that may make a difference.

texansrangerfan73
08-04-2011, 12:39 PM
raising the debt ceiling is an admission of intent to continue deficit spending.

Bingo there it is!!!!! It really sux to be indebted to the communist abroad.:confused0024:

pghin08
08-04-2011, 01:14 PM
Bingo there it is!!!!! It really sux to be indebted to the communist abroad.:confused0024:

We're not really indebted to a lot of "Communists"

The biggest foreign holders of US debt:

1. China- If you still think China is really a communist marketplace, get out of the 1970s. China is a market economy.

2. Japan- No.

3. The UK- No.

4. Brazil- No.

5. Taiwan- No.

texansrangerfan73
08-04-2011, 03:20 PM
Well opinions vary. Maybe we should just be under the Crown again.

pghin08
08-04-2011, 03:25 PM
Well opinions vary. Maybe we should just be under the Crown again.

Being a Communist country/market isn't an opinion. It either is or isn't.

*censored*
08-04-2011, 04:09 PM
It's bad that we had to do it again, but largely inevitable considering the sense of entitlement and "GIMME IT, IT'S MINE!" mentality that everyone in this country has now.

It's also stupid that the Republicans are complaining and fighting it when their hero Reagan raised it something like 29 times.

For the record, per the Congressional Budget Office, the debt increase by presidential term...

Carter: -0.4%
Reagan 1: 49%
Reagan 2: 40.2%
GHW Bush: 32.7%
Clinton 1: 13.2%
Clinton 2: -0.2%
GW Bush 1: 22.8%
GW Bush 2: 18.7%
Obama: 12.5%

Note the severe lack of negative numbers when compared to the massive positive numbers.

*censored*
08-04-2011, 04:09 PM
Being a Communist country/market isn't an opinion. It either is or isn't.

Well... that's just like... your opinion, man.

duane1969
08-05-2011, 09:25 AM
1. China- If you still think China is really a communist marketplace, get out of the 1970s. China is a market economy.


China may have a free-market styled economy, but that doesn't make them not a Communist country. China has self-declared themselves to be a Communist government since 1949.

pghin08
08-05-2011, 09:56 AM
China may have a free-market styled economy, but that doesn't make them not a Communist country. China has self-declared themselves to be a Communist government since 1949.

I can declare myself to have brown hair, that doesn't mean that I do (I'm a ginger).

It's totally contradictory. You can't be a Communist country with a free-market economy. Communism is a society structured upon common ownership. China is a free-market enterprise economy now. I don't care what the Chinese gov't "claims" to be. They are not.

AUTaxMan
08-05-2011, 10:13 AM
It may be more of a free market economy, but it is still at the very least a totalitarian government.

pghin08
08-05-2011, 10:23 AM
It may be more of a free market economy, but it is still at the very least a totalitarian government.

It's not "more of" a free market economy. It's a full-fledged free market economy. I talk to people on the ground in China on a consistent basis, and all they talk about are the entrepreneurial opportunities and the blossoming of the Chinese consumer (not to mention the potential housing bubble going on over there, but that's a discussion of its own).

I agree that China's political freedom is behind the times (held up predominantly because they fear that political upheaval of the ruling party would cause economic chaos), but the fact is that their market drives their power. Once Xiaopeng modernized their economy in the late 70s, early 80s, China hasn't been anywhere close to the same. This isn't the 1960s anymore, and frankly, if those in power in China actually think they're Communists, then they're pretty crappy Communists.

duane1969
08-05-2011, 12:13 PM
China is not a free market economy. In a free market economy the only government involvement is taxation and ensuring that individuals can conduct business without hinderance. To my knowledge there is no such thing as a true free market economy in the world.

If by free market economy you mean that businesses are run and entirely controlled by the people, well that isn't the case in China either. While they are certainly headed in that direction the idea that the Chinese government has a "hands-off" policy is just not so.

Is the Communism in China the Marxist-Leninist version that is popularly thought to be what Communism is? No, and it never was. But to say that just because they let people own a business that they are not Communist is erroneous. Just like everything else, Communism is evolving, but that doesn't make it something other than Communism. At the root of their government there exist Maoist foundations that can not be ignored simply because they let people own a fruit stand or sell electronics on eBay.

pghin08
08-05-2011, 12:27 PM
China is not a free market economy. In a free market economy the only government involvement is taxation and ensuring that individuals can conduct business without hinderance. To my knowledge there is no such thing as a true free market economy in the world.

If by free market economy you mean that businesses are run and entirely controlled by the people, well that isn't the case in China either. While they are certainly headed in that direction the idea that the Chinese government has a "hands-off" policy is just not so.

Is the Communism in China the Marxist-Leninist version that is popularly thought to be what Communism is? No, and it never was. But to say that just because they let people own a business that they are not Communist is erroneous. Just like everything else, Communism is evolving, but that doesn't make it something other than Communism. At the root of their government there exist Maoist foundations that can not be ignored simply because they let people own a fruit stand or sell electronics on eBay.


Like I've said, I talk to people probably on a weekly basis who are in China and living it (most of these people have also lived in the US). I know what they tell me, and I'm regurgitating it here. China's economy is changing so quickly.

And yes, I'm referring to free market economies as we know them, not as they are precisely defined.