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Rockman
08-01-2011, 02:39 AM
After reading the P&R forums here for close to four years it doesn't surprise me that there hasn't been a discussion on the tragedy in Norway. Just read this article on Yahoo and felt that it is something that should be read by the SCF P&R community.

http://news.yahoo.com/christian-terrorist-norway-case-strikes-debate-181559379.html

It goes without saying that the events that took place were horrific and a tragedy that should have never happened, however hopefully people will realize that performing acts of terrorism isn't exclusive to Islam, like is so commonly projected on these forums. (And if someone tries to say that that sort of rhetoric hasn't been posted on these forums they clearly haven't been reading closely/long enough)

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 09:48 AM
There is a big difference between an individual that commits a horrific act claiming to be a christian and a whole religious network that uses terroism as a tool.

If you understand anything about the Christian religion you would understand that it does not condone or advise you to do these things. Can the same be said about Islam?

Also, read up a bit on the nut that did this. He claimed Christianity but has contradictory statements. I believe he says he didn't have a relationship with Jesus.

Just a couple points to ponder.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 10:04 AM
There is a big difference between an individual that commits a horrific act claiming to be a christian and a whole religious network that uses terroism as a tool.

If you understand anything about the Christian religion you would understand that it does not condone or advise you to do these things. Can the same be said about Islam?

Also, read up a bit on the nut that did this. He claimed Christianity but has contradictory statements. I believe he says he didn't have a relationship with Jesus.

Just a couple points to ponder.


Really pigeonholing Islam, eh? I forgot that there are no other extremes in other religions.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 10:31 AM
Really pigeonholing Islam, eh? I forgot that there are no other extremes in other religions.
There are extremists that use religion as a tool. There are also religions that use extremism as a tool.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 10:45 AM
There are extremists that use religion as a tool. There are also religions that use extremism as a tool.

If you think that about Islam, you're out of touch. I know many Muslims that wouldn't hurt a fly, and would tell you that Islam is a religion of peace.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 11:00 AM
If you think that about Islam, you're out of touch. I know many Muslims that wouldn't hurt a fly, and would tell you that Islam is a religion of peace.
I know alot of muslims that would say the same thing. Even Bush said that. But it is not what is in their Koran. It is not a religion of peace no matter how you argue it. There are a ton of peaceful muslims no doubt, but are they following the true teachings?

habsheaven
08-01-2011, 11:07 AM
I know alot of muslims that would say the same thing. Even Bush said that. But it is not what is in their Koran. It is not a religion of peace no matter how you argue it. There are a ton of peaceful muslims no doubt, but are they following the true teachings?

And it is not what is in your Bible. So clearly Christianity is just as violent.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 11:21 AM
And it is not what is in your Bible. So clearly Christianity is just as violent.
Not quite sure that makes sense but ok?

mrveggieman
08-01-2011, 11:29 AM
It amazes me how some people on here are quick to throw someone elses religion under the bus for being violent but their relgion teaches some of the same things as the so co violent one teaches. Let me ask you have you ever read the Koran? Or do do you only go by quotes taken out of context. I'm sure that you can misquote the bible to disprove christanity if you so desire.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 11:32 AM
It amazes me how some people on here are quick to throw someone elses religion under the bus for being violent but their relgion teaches some of the same things as the so co violent one teaches. Let me ask you have you ever read the Koran? Or do do you only go by quotes taken out of context. I'm sure that you can misquote the bible to disprove christanity if you so desire.
I ask you to look at both books and make your decision. I've hashed this out numerous times so I'm not going through it anymore but there is a considerable difference. Go back and read some of the old links I've posted to make you own conclusions. Those that say these books are similar are either uninformed or ignorant.

mrveggieman
08-01-2011, 11:40 AM
I ask you to look at both books and make your decision. I've hashed this out numerous times so I'm not going through it anymore but there is a considerable difference. Go back and read some of the old links I've posted to make you own conclusions. Those that say these books are similar are either uninformed or ignorant.



I have studied both the bible and the Koran for several years. Although they have their clear differences 90-95% of what each book says is identical. How many years have you studied the koran let alone the bible?

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 11:42 AM
I have studied both the bible and the Koran for several years. Although they have their clear differences 90-95% of what each book says is identical. How many years have you studied the koran let alone the bible?
Bible, since I was young. Koran probably last decade when I started to see which way things were going. You have some pretty big misconceptions about both books IMO.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 11:52 AM
Bible, since I was young. Koran probably last decade when I started to see which way things were going. You have some pretty big misconceptions about both books IMO.

Sorry, he's right. I've read the Qu'ran, through and through. There is no more violence in there than in the Bible. The "Great Jihad" is often wildly misconstrued, as it refers to a person's internal struggle, rather than outward one.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 11:54 AM
Sorry, he's right. I've read the Qu'ran, through and through. There is no more violence in there than in the Bible. The "Great Jihad" is often wildly misconstrued, as it refers to a person's internal struggle, rather than outward one.
You misconstruing the violence. Apparently you're not understanding the conflict and goal of the Islam religion.
I

"Allah:"
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads
and strike off every fingertip of them."
(Qur'an 8:12)
Muhammad:
"Fight everyone in the way of Allah and
kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
(Ibn Ishaq 992)
Jesus:
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 5:14)
Ibelieve there are 3 kinds of Jihad taught correct? Why do you single out just one?

pghin08
08-01-2011, 12:17 PM
You misconstruing the violence. Apparently you're not understanding the conflict and goal of the Islam religion.
I

"Allah:"
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads
and strike off every fingertip of them."
(Qur'an 8:12)
Muhammad:
"Fight everyone in the way of Allah and
kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
(Ibn Ishaq 992)
Jesus:
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 5:14)
Ibelieve there are 3 kinds of Jihad taught correct? Why do you single out just one?

Because the Great Jihad is the central focus of the Qu'ran. No matter the quotes Sean Hannity throws out from it. You can find stuff like that from the Bible too. It casts non-believers to eternal damnation. Is that really so different?

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 12:18 PM
Because the Great Jihad is the central focus of the Qu'ran. No matter the quotes Sean Hannity throws out from it. You can find stuff like that from the Bible too. It casts non-believers to eternal damnation. Is that really so different?
Yes, there's a huge difference.

gatorboymike
08-01-2011, 12:57 PM
You forget the No True Christian principle. When atheists or people from any other religion do bad things, it's because their religion itself is bad and it is teaching, training and incentivizing them to do bad things. But when Christians do bad things, they're not really, REALLY Christians, regardless of how much they might think they are or claim they are. Because the definition of a Christian is somebody who has never done any bad things in their entire life. So if a Christian does something bad, that automatically and retroactively invalidates their Christianity. For example, today you might swear with every ounce of sincerity in your body that Bob is one of the best Christians you've ever met, but if tomorrow you find out that Bob cheated on his wife or robbed a bank for voted for a Democrat, well then you never REALLY thought Bob was a TRUE Christian, nooooo, you ALWAYS knew he was a false Christian and he was never really your friend at all.

mrveggieman
08-01-2011, 01:29 PM
You forget the No True Christian principle. When atheists or people from any other religion do bad things, it's because their religion itself is bad and it is teaching, training and incentivizing them to do bad things. But when Christians do bad things, they're not really, REALLY Christians, regardless of how much they might think they are or claim they are. Because the definition of a Christian is somebody who has never done any bad things in their entire life. So if a Christian does something bad, that automatically and retroactively invalidates their Christianity. For example, today you might swear with every ounce of sincerity in your body that Bob is one of the best Christians you've ever met, but if tomorrow you find out that Bob cheated on his wife or robbed a bank for voted for a Democrat, well then you never REALLY thought Bob was a TRUE Christian, nooooo, you ALWAYS knew he was a false Christian and he was never really your friend at all.

You forgot how some christians never take responsibilities for their own actions. If a non christian does something wrong they blame their religion or lack of one. If a christian does something wrong they love to say the devil made them do it. Man up and take responsibility for your own actions.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 01:36 PM
You forget the No True Christian principle. When atheists or people from any other religion do bad things, it's because their religion itself is bad and it is teaching, training and incentivizing them to do bad things. But when Christians do bad things, they're not really, REALLY Christians, regardless of how much they might think they are or claim they are. Because the definition of a Christian is somebody who has never done any bad things in their entire life. So if a Christian does something bad, that automatically and retroactively invalidates their Christianity. For example, today you might swear with every ounce of sincerity in your body that Bob is one of the best Christians you've ever met, but if tomorrow you find out that Bob cheated on his wife or robbed a bank for voted for a Democrat, well then you never REALLY thought Bob was a TRUE Christian, nooooo, you ALWAYS knew he was a false Christian and he was never really your friend at all.

You are so wrong it's sad. Your jaded view probably doesn't merit discussion as I don't believe it would do any good.
That being said, Atheists don't believe in God so your point is moot there.
Secondly, we are talking about 1 religion, Islam, whose teachings are not that of peace. Their prophet was one of the most wretched, evil individuals on this planet. If you knew anything about the religion, you'd understand that.
Third, there was only 1 perfect individual to ever walk this planet. We are so far away from him it's sad. But we strive to be more like him everyday. I don't question the Christianity of the cheating neighbor or the bank robber as we do not know their heart. People are tempted on a daily basis. Especially if you are a Christian.
I do question an individual who says he does these things because "God told me to" or in the name of Christianity when it is in exact opposite of what is being taught. There is a big difference.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 01:37 PM
You forgot how some christians never take responsibilities for their own actions. If a non christian does something wrong they blame their religion or lack of one. If a christian does something wrong they love to say the devil made them do it. Man up and take responsibility for your own actions.
I wouldn't expect non believers to understand the concept. But again, we are talking about one religion.......

mrveggieman
08-01-2011, 01:41 PM
I wouldn't expect non believers to understand the concept. But again, we are talking about one religion.......


You don't know what I believe in...I will tell you this I don't believe in religious intolerance, bigotry or being a religious fanboy like some people on here are.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 01:43 PM
You don't know what I believe in...I will tell you this I don't believe in religious intolerance, bigotry or being a religious fanboy like some people on here are.
You're right, I don't know precisely what you believe in your heart. But by your comments I can pretty much put together what you don't believe.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 01:54 PM
Yes, there's a huge difference.

I disagree with you there. Plus, you should be more specific on how the Qu'ran deals with those who believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior:

"Those who believe, the Jews, Christians and Sabians - any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord. They need not fear, nor shall they grieve."

Most of the violent passages in the Qu'ran have FAR more to do with self-defense (of Islam) than outward terrorism.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 02:04 PM
I disagree with you there. Plus, you should be more specific on how the Qu'ran deals with those who believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior:

"Those who believe, the Jews, Christians and Sabians - any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord. They need not fear, nor shall they grieve."

Most of the violent passages in the Qu'ran have FAR more to do with self-defense (of Islam) than outward terrorism.
Do you have that passage number? I'd like to see the context. I can dig you a bunch of anti jew passages as well.

And here's a response to the "inner struggle" argument...

In Arabic, "jihad" means struggle. In Islam, it means holy war.
The Quran specifically exempts the disabled and elderly from Jihad (4:95), which would make no sense if the word is being used merely within the context of spiritual struggle. It is also unclear why Muhammad and his Quran would use graphic language, such as smiting fingers and heads from the hands and necks of unbelievers if he were speaking merely of character development.

mrveggieman
08-01-2011, 02:05 PM
You're right, I don't know precisely what you believe in your heart. But by your comments I can pretty much put together what you don't believe.

Be careful about making assumptions. If I can quote the old saying when you assume you make an............:hug:

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 02:10 PM
Be careful about making assumptions. If I can quote the old saying when you assume you make an............:hug:

It's not a real stretch with the posts I read. Would you call yourself a Christian? ANd just curious, what does that mean to you?

mrveggieman
08-01-2011, 02:21 PM
It's not a real stretch with the posts I read. Would you call yourself a Christian? ANd just curious, what does that mean to you?


Why does it matter what I call myself? I am against any type of bigotry weather it be racism, sexism, or religious intolerance regardless of the religion. Believe it or not I was on another website defending christians against extremists atheists. Again you are making assumptions.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Do you have that passage number? I'd like to see the context. I can dig you a bunch of anti jew passages as well.

And here's a response to the "inner struggle" argument...

In Arabic, "jihad" means struggle. In Islam, it means holy war.
The Quran specifically exempts the disabled and elderly from Jihad (4:95), which would make no sense if the word is being used merely within the context of spiritual struggle. It is also unclear why Muhammad and his Quran would use graphic language, such as smiting fingers and heads from the hands and necks of unbelievers if he were speaking merely of character development.

Surah Baqarah, Chapter 2, Verse 62

It may be difficult to find the full Surah online. Sometimes it's difficult to find decent translations of the Qu'ran on the internet, you're far better off to find official translations in a library.

And to be fair, there are passages in the Bible which some see as anti-Semitic.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 02:23 PM
Why does it matter what I call myself? I am against any type of bigotry weather it be racism, sexism, or religious intolerance regardless of the religion. Believe it or not I was on another website defending christians against extremists atheists. Again you are making assumptions.
I wouldn't have to make assumptions if you'd ever answer the questions. But that's ok, no need to bother.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 02:25 PM
Surah Baqarah, Chapter 2, Verse 62

It may be difficult to find the full Surah online. Sometimes it's difficult to find decent translations of the Qu'ran on the internet, you're far better off to find official translations in a library.

And to be fair, there are passages in the Bible which some see as anti-Semitic.
You can find official translations pretty easy. It's not hard to draw a conclusion given the surronding texts and the life in which their prophet lead and taught.

What verses would you consider anti-semitic in the Bible out of curiosity?

pghin08
08-01-2011, 02:40 PM
You can find official translations pretty easy. It's not hard to draw a conclusion given the surronding texts and the life in which their prophet lead and taught.

What verses would you consider anti-semitic in the Bible out of curiosity?

Well, let me be clear, I, personally, don't believe the New Testament is anti-semitic, but there are people that do. They point to Matthew 27:25 (and others), 1 Thessalonians 2, offhand.

I feel as if people that think that the NT is anti-semitic are overlooking many important passages. Which is exactly what I feel as if you're doing with the Qu'ran. I'm not sure there's a holy book out there (though admittedly, I've mostly only studied the Bible, Qu'ran and To'rah) that doesn't have passages which persecute those who do not believe in their Messiah.


Edit: My goodness, could I have used more commas in that first sentence? My 9th grade English teacher would stone me for that one.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 02:40 PM
I think you need to read that whole book. It sure seems to paint a different story then the one passage you quoted. That passage was about a small sect of people that killed the prophets it seems. The rest of the book is a big rebuke to the Jews/Christians about their ways with a bunch of twists to the Biblical version of some of the accounts of Moses.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 02:44 PM
Well, let me be clear, I, personally, don't believe the New Testament is anti-semitic, but there are people that do. They point to Matthew 27:25 (and others), 1 Thessalonians 2, offhand.

I feel as if people that think that the NT is anti-semitic are overlooking many important passages. Which is exactly what I feel as if you're doing with the Qu'ran. I'm not sure there's a holy book out there (though admittedly, I've mostly only studied the Bible, Qu'ran and To'rah) that doesn't have passages which persecute those who do not believe in their Messiah.


Edit: My goodness, could I have used more commas in that first sentence? My 9th grade English teacher would stone me for that one.
Lol,
I don't see how that Matthew quote is anti-semetic. I'd love to hear their reasoning.

duane1969
08-01-2011, 02:46 PM
Sorry, he's right. I've read the Qu'ran, through and through. There is no more violence in there than in the Bible. The "Great Jihad" is often wildly misconstrued, as it refers to a person's internal struggle, rather than outward one.

That is officially the first time I have heard "jihad" described as an inner struggle.

What's more, I could care less how it is translated. If an Islamic man tells you that he is going on a jihad then you are pretty freakin' gullible if you sit around to see what he means. You won't enjoy it.


You forget the No True Christian principle. When atheists or people from any other religion do bad things, it's because their religion itself is bad and it is teaching, training and incentivizing them to do bad things. But when Christians do bad things, they're not really, REALLY Christians, regardless of how much they might think they are or claim they are. Because the definition of a Christian is somebody who has never done any bad things in their entire life. So if a Christian does something bad, that automatically and retroactively invalidates their Christianity. For example, today you might swear with every ounce of sincerity in your body that Bob is one of the best Christians you've ever met, but if tomorrow you find out that Bob cheated on his wife or robbed a bank for voted for a Democrat, well then you never REALLY thought Bob was a TRUE Christian, nooooo, you ALWAYS knew he was a false Christian and he was never really your friend at all.

By the same measure, those of Muslim faith do the same to try and seperate themselves from the extremist.

Just like it isn't fair to call all Muslims bad because a portion is bad, it isn't fair to paint all Christians as bad beacuse of a few bad ones popping up.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 02:59 PM
Lol,
I don't see how that Matthew quote is anti-semetic. I'd love to hear their reasoning.

Yeah, I don't see it either. But I remember all the hullabaloo surrounding Passion of the Christ with all this stuff. Mostly nonsense to me.

But all the passage wars aside, with the amount of peaceful Muslims in this world, who simply go about their daily business, I don't see how people in Western society fear the faith so much. I will admit, I think the radical Muslim sects are MORE radical than Christian extremists. Mostly it has to do with not only their willingness to die in the name of Allah, but their DESIRE to do so. It encompasses their being.

The judgement of the everyday Muslim in this country is entirely unfair. Most of them simply want to live a normal life. The fear is misplaced. How many people in the US died from Muslim terrorist attacks in 2010? Zero. How many people die in the US from gun murders every year? At least 10,000. So why get nervous if a Muslim sits next to you on a plane?

mrveggieman
08-01-2011, 03:00 PM
I wouldn't have to make assumptions if you'd ever answer the questions. But that's ok, no need to bother.

It's not about be but since you insist I am a christian. Now does that make you feel better?

pghin08
08-01-2011, 03:07 PM
That is officially the first time I have heard "jihad" described as an inner struggle.

What's more, I could care less how it is translated. If an Islamic man tells you that he is going on a jihad then you are pretty freakin' gullible if you sit around to see what he means. You won't enjoy it.



By the same measure, those of Muslim faith do the same to try and seperate themselves from the extremist.

Just like it isn't fair to call all Muslims bad because a portion is bad, it isn't fair to paint all Christians as bad beacuse of a few bad ones popping up.


Two things:

1. Really? Jihad is Arabic for struggle. Not "holy war".
2. I couldn't agree more. Extremists shouldn't define any religion, party, etc. I'm a Democrat, so does that automatically mean I align myself with Bill Maher and Keith Olbermann? Of course not.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 03:22 PM
It's not about be but since you insist I am a christian. Now does that make you feel better?
It's not me I'm worried about. Anyone can say they are Christian, or Muslim or whatever. But you actions (or words in this case) speak volumes as to what you believe. That's why I asked what it meant to be a Christian to you.
It wasn't about picking on you, I was just curious as to your definition of a Christian.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 03:26 PM
Yeah, I don't see it either. But I remember all the hullabaloo surrounding Passion of the Christ with all this stuff. Mostly nonsense to me.

But all the passage wars aside, with the amount of peaceful Muslims in this world, who simply go about their daily business, I don't see how people in Western society fear the faith so much. I will admit, I think the radical Muslim sects are MORE radical than Christian extremists. Mostly it has to do with not only their willingness to die in the name of Allah, but their DESIRE to do so. It encompasses their being.

The judgement of the everyday Muslim in this country is entirely unfair. Most of them simply want to live a normal life. The fear is misplaced. How many people in the US died from Muslim terrorist attacks in 2010? Zero. How many people die in the US from gun murders every year? At least 10,000. So why get nervous if a Muslim sits next to you on a plane?
I understand your unfair concept. To a small degree I would agree. But I don't think it's out of the question to pay a little more attention to that religion.
It is the only one that on a daily basis is arbitrarily murdering in the name of allah. You may have a rogue instance from other religions, but this one is constant and a threat.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 03:30 PM
I understand your unfair concept. To a small degree I would agree. But I don't think it's out of the question to pay a little more attention to that religion.
It is the only one that on a daily basis is arbitrarily murdering in the name of allah. You may have a rogue instance from other religions, but this one is constant and a threat.

I think you and I are coming to some sort of consensus here. I would DEFINITELY pay more attention the the radical sects of Islam over other religions, because those extremists believe that Westerners are evil. I just wouldn't look at the religion as a whole that way.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 03:30 PM
Two things:

1. Really? Jihad is Arabic for struggle. Not "holy war".
2. I couldn't agree more. Extremists shouldn't define any religion, party, etc. I'm a Democrat, so does that automatically mean I align myself with Bill Maher and Keith Olbermann? Of course not.
I think the definition in Websters is actually holy war.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 03:36 PM
I think you and I are coming to some sort of consensus here. I would DEFINITELY pay more attention the the radical sects of Islam over other religions, because those extremists believe that Westerners are evil. I just wouldn't look at the religion as a whole that way.
The difference we would have is I think it's a whole lot more prevalent then you probably do. That it is really not a religion of peace but rather overtaking and control by any means necessary. It's a "wolf in sheeps clothing" religion that has one true goal.
I agree that there are some that do not subscribe to that. But alot of the leaders are teaching that. The goal is to desensitize us to the religion with an "American version" and cryout that we are peaceful and mean no harm.
If you would just listen to what is going on I think you would hear a different goal.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 04:36 PM
I think the definition in Websters is actually holy war.

Haha, I don't know what to tell you. Literally, the word jihad translates to struggle in English.

pghin08
08-01-2011, 04:38 PM
The difference we would have is I think it's a whole lot more prevalent then you probably do. That it is really not a religion of peace but rather overtaking and control by any means necessary. It's a "wolf in sheeps clothing" religion that has one true goal.
I agree that there are some that do not subscribe to that. But alot of the leaders are teaching that. The goal is to desensitize us to the religion with an "American version" and cryout that we are peaceful and mean no harm.
If you would just listen to what is going on I think you would hear a different goal.

I can't begin to tell you how wrong and prejudiced this is. So wrong.

duwal
08-01-2011, 05:55 PM
I know alot of muslims that would say the same thing. Even Bush said that. But it is not what is in their Koran. It is not a religion of peace no matter how you argue it. There are a ton of peaceful muslims no doubt, but are they following the true teachings?


people can say the same thing about the bible. That if you don't accept God than the end result is that you will be in hell. That sounds more like the words of a dictator giving an ultimatum over one of overall acceptance. The bible also doesn't want anyone to accept that there are those that are homosexual and love and want to be with someone from the same sex. Sure there are many other examples where the bible is proof that its teachings does not promote peace, or it only does as long as you follow God's guidelines

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 07:16 PM
I can't begin to tell you how wrong and prejudiced this is. So wrong.
I think you need to take the blinders off. Their goal is to control. If you read what they say, you will see their motive. (I'm speaking as a whole, not necessarily your neighbor or friends)
There will be one world religion at some point and for awhile I though it would be Catholicism. I'm beginning to think otherwise.

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 07:24 PM
people can say the same thing about the bible. That if you don't accept God than the end result is that you will be in hell. That sounds more like the words of a dictator giving an ultimatum over one of overall acceptance. The bible also doesn't want anyone to accept that there are those that are homosexual and love and want to be with someone from the same sex. Sure there are many other examples where the bible is proof that its teachings does not promote peace, or it only does as long as you follow God's guidelines
It's not even in the same realm. You have a free will to choose with Christianity. You don't necessarily have that with Islam in many instances.
A dictator doesn't give you the will to choose, God does. So I don't know how you correlate the two.
Your homosexual example is also wrong. You can accept and love the person but not the act. Christians are not going out and calling for Jihad against gays. They are not beheading them and suicide bombing them.
It is against all things Christian and science for that matter. We do not condone the behavior.

duwal
08-01-2011, 08:12 PM
It's not even in the same realm. You have a free will to choose with Christianity. You don't necessarily have that with Islam in many instances.
A dictator doesn't give you the will to choose, God does. So I don't know how you correlate the two.
Your homosexual example is also wrong. You can accept and love the person but not the act. Christians are not going out and calling for Jihad against gays. They are not beheading them and suicide bombing them.
It is against all things Christian and science for that matter. We do not condone the behavior.



well true or false: For Christian believers if someone does not accept him as their lord and savior then they believe those will be sent to hell when they die by God. SO in other words per the teachings you have no choice but to accept God if you expect to get into heaven

sanfran22
08-01-2011, 08:39 PM
well true or false: For Christian believers if someone does not accept him as their lord and savior then they believe those will be sent to hell when they die by God. SO in other words per the teachings you have no choice but to accept God if you expect to get into heaven
Well, yes. but you have a choice. There are a whole lot of people that don't care either way. That's their choice and they are free to it. But it's still a choice. I don't see how that compares personally....:confused0024:

Rockman
08-02-2011, 01:19 AM
It goes without saying that the events that took place were horrific and a tragedy that should have never happened, however hopefully people will realize that performing acts of terrorism isn't exclusive to Islam, like is so commonly projected on these forums. (And if someone tries to say that that sort of rhetoric hasn't been posted on these forums they clearly haven't been reading closely/long enough)


There is a big difference between an individual that commits a horrific act claiming to be a christian and a whole religious network that uses terroism as a tool.

If you understand anything about the Christian religion you would understand that it does not condone or advise you to do these things. Can the same be said about Islam?



And it only took one post for someone to prove my point. Thank you Sanfran you never disappoint or surprise.

gatorboymike
08-02-2011, 01:24 AM
Well, yes. but you have a choice. There are a whole lot of people that don't care either way. That's their choice and they are free to it. But it's still a choice. I don't see how that compares personally....:confused0024:

That's not really a choice. That's a threat cloaked in deceptive language to make it look like a choice. What you're really telling people is "join my religion or you will be tortured forever after you die." How is being tortured forever vs. not being tortured forever a choice? That's like the choice a mugger gives you between handing over your wallet and being shot.

And because someboy brought this up a few pages back...for the record, yes, I am fully aware that not all Christians are extremists, and not all Muslims are extremists. Obviously if I'm addressing some tactic that is employed only by extremists, I'm not addressing it to non-extremists.

Hairylemon
08-02-2011, 02:25 AM
White man guns down 70+ and what happens? You all start going on about Muslims, I hate to tell the anti Muslim brigade this, Muslims didn't have a thing to do with what happened in Norway. Did Christianity? Probably not, it appears the guy was just a right wing nut case. Extremist yes, religious extremist probably not.

Over here in Europe we seem to have a lot of extreme right wing groups desperate for publicity. In England we have the BNP, EDL and Stormfront. Germany and France have many extreme right wing groups as does Scandanavia.

pghin08
08-02-2011, 08:54 AM
I think you need to take the blinders off. Their goal is to control. If you read what they say, you will see their motive. (I'm speaking as a whole, not necessarily your neighbor or friends)
There will be one world religion at some point and for awhile I though it would be Catholicism. I'm beginning to think otherwise.

I literally can't be a part of this thread anymore, without getting too emotionally involved.

mrveggieman
08-02-2011, 09:47 AM
It's not me I'm worried about. Anyone can say they are Christian, or Muslim or whatever. But you actions (or words in this case) speak volumes as to what you believe. That's why I asked what it meant to be a Christian to you.
It wasn't about picking on you, I was just curious as to your definition of a Christian.


To me a christian is someone who follows the teachings of jesus is a good stweard of what good has blessed him with, is a pillar of his/her community, takes responsibility for his or her own actions and finally does not practice racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-setimism or islamaphobia. Let me ask you this. The KKK claims to be a christian organization. If muslims can be judged by the actions of a few radicals would it be safe to believe that all christians hate jews and minorities because of the actions of the klan, david duke and jerry fallwell? If not why not?

sanfran22
08-02-2011, 10:01 AM
I literally can't be a part of this thread anymore, without getting too emotionally involved.
Thats probably a good idea. I've often heard democrats get emotionally involved rather then rationally.

mrveggieman
08-02-2011, 10:04 AM
Thats probably a good idea. I've often heard democrats get emotionally involved rather then rationally.

Yeah just like some of my conservative buddies getting involved with irrational rather than rational arguments on these discussion boards. :winking0071:

sanfran22
08-02-2011, 10:11 AM
To me a christian is someone who follows the teachings of jesus is a good stweard of what good has blessed him with, is a pillar of his/her community, takes responsibility for his or her own actions and finally does not practice racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-setimism or islamaphobia. Let me ask you this. The KKK claims to be a christian organization. If muslims can be judged by the actions of a few radicals would it be safe to believe that all christians hate jews and minorities because of the actions of the klan, david duke and jerry fallwell? If not why not?
Well, Imo thats not the definition of Christianity. Those things will happen as a result, but it's not the way.
The KKK is a fringe organization that claims to have Christian ties. Just like the Westboro church. They are deceived and are false. Just because you say you are a Christian doesn't mean you are. Your actions can speak volumes.
The Islam faith preaches hate and disrespect, murder and deception. I don't see that in the Christian faith. Are there individuals and organizations that preach that, sure. Does the Bible?
I will say it once more, I am not against the people as a whole. I actually feel sorry that they are so deceived. I would hope there eyes would be opend to the truth, just like many on this site.
It's the false religion of Islam itself that I have issues with.

sanfran22
08-02-2011, 10:11 AM
Yeah just like some of my conservative buddies getting involved with irrational rather than rational arguments on these discussion boards. :winking0071:
Except you conservative "buddies" are usually right.....:sign0020::winking0071::party0048:

sanfran22
08-02-2011, 10:12 AM
And it only took one post for someone to prove my point. Thank you Sanfran you never disappoint or surprise.
Anything for the haters and baiters:winking0071::humble:

mrveggieman
08-02-2011, 10:22 AM
Well, Imo thats not the definition of Christianity. Those things will happen as a result, but it's not the way.
The KKK is a fringe organization that claims to have Christian ties. Just like the Westboro church. They are deceived and are false. Just because you say you are a Christian doesn't mean you are. Your actions can speak volumes.
The Islam faith preaches hate and disrespect, murder and deception. I don't see that in the Christian faith. Are there individuals and organizations that preach that, sure. Does the Bible?
I will say it once more, I am not against the people as a whole. I actually feel sorry that they are so deceived. I would hope there eyes would be opend to the truth, just like many on this site.
It's the false religion of Islam itself that I have issues with.

You asked what christanity means to me and that's what it means to you. If it means something different to you so be it. Again this goes back to the no good christian argument that I believe GBM bought up. Certian fringe christians can speak racism, homophobia, bigotry, or can even advocate for the killing of President Chavez (I forgot what country he is in but you know who I'm talking about). Whenever that happens you are quick to say that they are not either real christians or say that they were decieved by the devil. Some christians refuse to hold other christians accountable for their actions. However if a non christian does something wrong you say they are everything from practicing idolotry to being the devil themself. You my good friend of the perfect example of the no good christian argument. I would like to and I'm sure GBM would like to thank you for proving his point. :whistle:

sanfran22
08-02-2011, 10:26 AM
You asked what christanity means to me and that's what it means to you. If it means something different to you so be it. Again this goes back to the no good christian argument that I believe GBM bought up. Certian fringe christians can speak racism, homophobia, bigotry, or can even advocate for the killing of President Chavez (I forgot what country he is in but you know who I'm talking about). Whenever that happens you are quick to say that they are not either real christians or say that they were decieved by the devil. Some christians refuse to hold other christians accountable for their actions. However if a non christian does something wrong you say they are everything from practicing idolotry to being the devil themself. You my good friend of the perfect example of the no good christian argument. I would like to and I'm sure GBM would like to thank you for proving his point. :whistle:
There is only one way.... I didn't say don't hold people accountable and yes people screw up. But in the case of westboro or even the KKK, that's not a screw up. It's a way of life and it is wrong. I think it is all going over your head so I'll leave it at that, but I ask you to find the true way and not what some would lead you to believe.

mrveggieman
08-02-2011, 10:28 AM
There is only one way.... I didn't say don't hold people accountable and yes people screw up. But in the case of westboro or even the KKK, that's not a screw up. It's a way of life and it is wrong. I think it is all going over your head so I'll leave it at that, but I ask you to find the true way and not what some would lead you to believe.

You are right about that. I will never find the true way listening to some of these conservative people on here. :hug:

sanfran22
08-02-2011, 10:30 AM
You are right about that. I will never find the true way listening to some of these conservative people on here. :hug:
To each is own I guess.

mrveggieman
08-02-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm still trying to figure out what a white guy in europe with no known ties to islam who murdered 70+ people in cold blood has to do with islam.

habsheaven
08-02-2011, 10:49 AM
Well, Imo thats not the definition of Christianity. Those things will happen as a result, but it's not the way.
The KKK is a fringe organization that claims to have Christian ties. Just like the Westboro church. They are deceived and are false. Just because you say you are a Christian doesn't mean you are. Your actions can speak volumes.
The Islam faith preaches hate and disrespect, murder and deception. I don't see that in the Christian faith. Are there individuals and organizations that preach that, sure. Does the Bible?
I will say it once more, I am not against the people as a whole. I actually feel sorry that they are so deceived. I would hope there eyes would be opend to the truth, just like many on this site.
It's the false religion of Islam itself that I have issues with.

You wouldn't know what the TRUTH looked like if it was staring you right in the face. :sign0020:

sanfran22
08-02-2011, 10:51 AM
You wouldn't know what the TRUTH looked like if it was staring you right in the face. :sign0020:
Wanna place a bet? lol.....
I know it's definitely not coming from you;)

mrveggieman
08-02-2011, 11:17 AM
Wanna place a bet? lol.....
I know it's definitely not coming from you;)


I thought that christians are prohibited from gambling. Oh wait that's the koran that prohibits muslims from gamblimg.....

sanfran22
08-02-2011, 11:19 AM
I thought that christians are prohibited from gambling. Oh wait that's the koran that prohibits muslims from gamblimg.....
:sign0020:

habsheaven
08-02-2011, 11:48 AM
Wanna place a bet? lol.....
I know it's definitely not coming from you;)

Betting would be pointless since I cannot collect my winnings from a rotting corpse buried in the ground.:confused0024:

Hairylemon
08-02-2011, 10:59 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what a white guy in europe with no known ties to islam who murdered 70+ people in cold blood has to do with islam.

The right wing media need to deflect the fact he was white and christian. So lets throw the blame at Islam no matter what. It's the same everytime a white terrorist does anything, blame the other side.

theonedru
08-03-2011, 03:47 AM
Well, Imo thats not the definition of Christianity. Those things will happen as a result, but it's not the way.
The KKK is a fringe organization that claims to have Christian ties. Just like the Westboro church. They are deceived and are false. Just because you say you are a Christian doesn't mean you are. Your actions can speak volumes.
The Islam faith preaches hate and disrespect, murder and deception. I don't see that in the Christian faith. Are there individuals and organizations that preach that, sure. Does the Bible?
I will say it once more, I am not against the people as a whole. I actually feel sorry that they are so deceived. I would hope there eyes would be opend to the truth, just like many on this site.
It's the false religion of Islam itself that I have issues with.

My favorite line

"The Islam faith preaches hate and disrespect, murder and deception. I don't see that in the Christian faith."

- Have you not read what you write about Islam? can it not get any more hate filled nor disrespectful........

or this

"I will say it once more, I am not against the people as a whole. I actually feel sorry that they are so deceived"

- Yet you talk down about them constantly laying claim to every negative aspect while holding a blind eye to the faults in your own.

or this

"it's not the way.
The KKK is a fringe organization that claims to have Christian ties"

- Just like terrorists claim to be true muslims.......

I could go on but will end with this

"Just because you say you are a Christian doesn't mean you are. Your actions can speak volumes."

- Could not agree more with you on this and I am so glad you admitted to it.

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 11:31 AM
My favorite line

"The Islam faith preaches hate and disrespect, murder and deception. I don't see that in the Christian faith."

- Have you not read what you write about Islam? can it not get any more hate filled nor disrespectful........

or this

"I will say it once more, I am not against the people as a whole. I actually feel sorry that they are so deceived"

- Yet you talk down about them constantly laying claim to every negative aspect while holding a blind eye to the faults in your own.

or this

"it's not the way.
The KKK is a fringe organization that claims to have Christian ties"

- Just like terrorists claim to be true muslims.......

I could go on but will end with this

"Just because you say you are a Christian doesn't mean you are. Your actions can speak volumes."

- Could not agree more with you on this and I am so glad you admitted to it.
I think you need to check your self and reread. The Islam faith preaches all of these things. It is not a religion of peace no matter how you much you want to make it.
If you think the KKK is a Christian organization, you need to have your head checked.
"For people will come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and a number will be turned from the true way through them."
It's very apparent you have no idea what Christianty is. It's sad that you are so blind that you believe them to be in any way the same type of religion.
I think you need to go brush up on what both stand for because obviously, as in most of your posts. Ignorance abounds.

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 11:45 AM
I guess I see your point. Christianity has a strong list like this.....


2011.08.03 (Pattani, Thailand) - A Buddhist teacher is shot twice in the head by warriors of Islam.2011.08.03 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - Sunni bombmakers take down a child and two others.2011.08.03 (Rasala, Iraq) - Three Iraqis are killed when fundamentalists bomb a liquor store.2011.08.02 (Kunduz, Afghanistan) - Four are killed when Muslim extremists stage a Shahid attack on a guesthouse used by foreigners.2011.08.02 (Cotabato, Philippines) - A 7-year-old child is among two killed by a Jemaah Islamiyah bomb blast.2011.08.01 (Atariwal, Pakistan) - A woman dies from injuries when Taliban militants fire a rocket into her home.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/LeftNavLine.gif

habsheaven
08-03-2011, 11:57 AM
My favorite line

"The Islam faith preaches hate and disrespect, murder and deception. I don't see that in the Christian faith."

- Have you not read what you write about Islam? can it not get any more hate filled nor disrespectful........

or this

"I will say it once more, I am not against the people as a whole. I actually feel sorry that they are so deceived"

- Yet you talk down about them constantly laying claim to every negative aspect while holding a blind eye to the faults in your own.

or this

"it's not the way.
The KKK is a fringe organization that claims to have Christian ties"

- Just like terrorists claim to be true muslims.......

I could go on but will end with this

"Just because you say you are a Christian doesn't mean you are. Your actions can speak volumes."

- Could not agree more with you on this and I am so glad you admitted to it.

I stand by my original comment "SanFran wouldn't see the truth if it was staring him in the face." Evidenced by his retort to your comments above. He is so blinded by his warped sense of truth, he didn't "hear" a thing you said.

His rantings are kinda spooky considering who the original topic is about.

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 12:00 PM
I stand by my original comment "SanFran wouldn't see the truth if it was staring him in the face." Evidenced by his retort to your comments above. He is so blinded by his warped sense of truth, he didn't "hear" a thing you said.
No need to listen to the ignorance from folks like yourself. I think you can just look at the world to see which way it is going. Not to difficult.

habsheaven
08-03-2011, 12:30 PM
No need to listen to the ignorance from folks like yourself. I think you can just look at the world to see which way it is going. Not to difficult.

:sign0020:Another retort that further proves my point. Keep talking.:sign0020:

pghin08
08-03-2011, 12:46 PM
I think you need to check your self and reread. The Islam faith preaches all of these things. It is not a religion of peace no matter how you much you want to make it.
If you think the KKK is a Christian organization, you need to have your head checked.
"For people will come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and a number will be turned from the true way through them."
It's very apparent you have no idea what Christianty is. It's sad that you are so blind that you believe them to be in any way the same type of religion.
I think you need to go brush up on what both stand for because obviously, as in most of your posts. Ignorance abounds.

That's the point though. The KKK ISN'T a Christian organization, but they claim to be. Just like al-Qaeda claim to be devout Muslims, but they don't represent the 1 billion Muslims who aren't out there committing terrorist attacks against the West.

It is clear though that you will believe what you want to (freedom of speech and expression!). But your McCarthy-like thoughts on the Muslim faith run counter to the fact that most Muslims are not violent people.

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 12:50 PM
I wonder if we would have all been around during the 1960's what sanfran22's stance on the civil rights movement would have been.

theonedru
08-03-2011, 01:08 PM
I guess I see your point. Christianity has a strong list like this.....


2011.08.03 (Pattani, Thailand) - A Buddhist teacher is shot twice in the head by warriors of Islam.2011.08.03 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - Sunni bombmakers take down a child and two others.2011.08.03 (Rasala, Iraq) - Three Iraqis are killed when fundamentalists bomb a liquor store.2011.08.02 (Kunduz, Afghanistan) - Four are killed when Muslim extremists stage a Shahid attack on a guesthouse used by foreigners.2011.08.02 (Cotabato, Philippines) - A 7-year-old child is among two killed by a Jemaah Islamiyah bomb blast.2011.08.01 (Atariwal, Pakistan) - A woman dies from injuries when Taliban militants fire a rocket into her home.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/LeftNavLine.gif

Why dont we start to list articles where Christians would lynch people due to the color of their skin or Christians who sit in their large mansions while millions starve around the world or the so called Christians who can take a thread about a self professed christian terrorist and turn into an Islamic slander fest.... Doesn't seem very christian like to me

duane1969
08-03-2011, 01:46 PM
That's the point though. The KKK ISN'T a Christian organization, but they claim to be. Just like al-Qaeda claim to be devout Muslims, but they don't represent the 1 billion Muslims who aren't out there committing terrorist attacks against the West.


I get your point and it is a valid one. However, I would like to make one counter-point.

If you meet up with a skinhead or KKK member it is highly unlikely that you will mistake him for a devout Bible-thumping Christian.

In contrast, if you meet a radical Muslim, you will most likely not be able to distinguish him from other Muslims and have no idea that he is radical until he kills you.

This is where the fear comes from. You can not tell if the Muslim sitting in the mosque praying is moderate or radical. They dress the same, speak the same, act the same, pray the same...everything is identical. If you plop a skinhead or devout KKK member down in a Baptist church he will stick out like a sore thumb.

Perhaps if radical Muslims would start wearing anti-Christian t-shirts and getting tattoos then it would help, but I doubt if they will. Instead they use the fact that they look like the average Muslim to assist them.

duane1969
08-03-2011, 01:51 PM
Haha, I don't know what to tell you. Literally, the word jihad translates to struggle in English.

How it translates into English is irrelevant to what it means in Islam.

pghin08
08-03-2011, 01:52 PM
I get your point and it is a valid one. However, I would like to make one counter-point.

If you meet up with a skinhead or KKK member it is highly unlikely that you will mistake him for a devout Bible-thumping Christian.

In contrast, if you meet a radical Muslim, you will most likely not be able to distinguish him from other Muslims and have no idea that he is radical until he kills you.

This is where the fear comes from. You can not tell if the Muslim sitting in the mosque praying is moderate or radical. They dress the same, speak the same, act the same, pray the same...everything is identical. If you plop a skinhead or devout KKK member down in a Baptist church he will stick out like a sore thumb.

Perhaps if radical Muslims would start wearing anti-Christian t-shirts and getting tattoos then it would help, but I doubt if they will. Instead they use the fact that they look like the average Muslim to assist them.


Totally legit. My beef is that logic doesn't trump fear for some people. Really, what are the odds that the Muslim in the mosque is a terrorist? Slim to none. Logic should tell us that we have nothing to fear from that person.

I just know that when I see someone decked out in Islamic garb, I don't immediately think of them as a terrorist, but a lot of people do.

pghin08
08-03-2011, 01:54 PM
How it translates into English is irrelevant to what it means in Islam.

Exactly. To Muslims, jihad means "struggle". To most Americans, jihad means "holy war". The word as it is meant in the Qu'ran means "struggle".

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 03:36 PM
I wonder if we would have all been around during the 1960's what sanfran22's stance on the civil rights movement would have been.
That all men are created equal. Don't try to do your typical race baiting, it will get you nowhere.

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 03:43 PM
I get your point and it is a valid one. However, I would like to make one counter-point.

If you meet up with a skinhead or KKK member it is highly unlikely that you will mistake him for a devout Bible-thumping Christian.

In contrast, if you meet a radical Muslim, you will most likely not be able to distinguish him from other Muslims and have no idea that he is radical until he kills you.

This is where the fear comes from. You can not tell if the Muslim sitting in the mosque praying is moderate or radical. They dress the same, speak the same, act the same, pray the same...everything is identical. If you plop a skinhead or devout KKK member down in a Baptist church he will stick out like a sore thumb.

Perhaps if radical Muslims would start wearing anti-Christian t-shirts and getting tattoos then it would help, but I doubt if they will. Instead they use the fact that they look like the average Muslim to assist them.


What about Jerry Fallwell? He was not only a bible thumper but a known segregationist. Even though Fallwell is no longer with us there are a whole lot of Fallwell wannabes running around nowadays

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 03:44 PM
That's the point though. The KKK ISN'T a Christian organization, but they claim to be. Just like al-Qaeda claim to be devout Muslims, but they don't represent the 1 billion Muslims who aren't out there committing terrorist attacks against the West.

It is clear though that you will believe what you want to (freedom of speech and expression!). But your McCarthy-like thoughts on the Muslim faith run counter to the fact that most Muslims are not violent people.
But that is an organization claiming Christianity. Not a whole religious faction. You can tell by their actions they are not what the Bible preaches. Can you tell that from some of the radical Islam factions? Or any of the Islamic factions? I don't see alot of denouncing and outcry.
Islam is a religion of world domination. If you would look into the teachings and beliefs, I think you would question that.

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 03:47 PM
That all men are created equal. Don't try to do your typical race baiting, it will get you nowhere.


Back in the 1960's racism was more socially accepted than it is today. Today if you openly profess your hatred for minorities you are shunned. However you can profess your hatred for muslims and gays and it is more accepted. Most people who hate muslims and or gays today are the same people who hated minorities during the civil rights movement and more than likely still hate them today. Just a little food for thought. :winking0071:

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 03:53 PM
But that is an organization claiming Christianity. Not a whole religious faction. You can tell by their actions they are not what the Bible preaches. Can you tell that from some of the radical Islam factions? Or any of the Islamic factions? I don't see alot of denouncing and outcry.
Islam is a religion of world domination. If you would look into the teachings and beliefs, I think you would question that.


Per your logic if Joe Blow goes out and robs and kills a man and says he is a christian you say that he is not and he is falsely claiming christanity. If John Blow goes out and robs and kills a man and claims to be a muslim you say that he is representing all muslims and that islam is a dangerous religion. You sure know how to speak with a speak with a split tounge.

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 03:53 PM
Back in the 1960's racism was more socially accepted than it is today. Today if you openly profess your hatred for minorities you are shunned. However you can profess your hatred for muslims and gays and it is more accepted. Most people who hate muslims and or gays today are the same people who hated minorities during the civil rights movement and more than likely still hate them today. Just a little food for thought. :winking0071:
Except you are making huge assumptions like the others on this board.
As stated before, I do not hate the individual. I fell sorry that they are deceived. I do not trust the religion itself. If you know anything about mohammeds life you would see what kind of individual he was. How can anything "peaceful" or "good" come out of someone like that? It's pretty widely know about the atrocites that are taught and practiced by this religion on a daily basis.
I am beginning to understand the arguing with idiots book by glenn beck.

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 03:57 PM
Except you are making huge assumptions like the others on this board.
As stated before, I do not hate the individual. I fell sorry that they are deceived. I do not trust the religion itself. If you know anything about mohammeds life you would see what kind of individual he was. How can anything "peaceful" or "good" come out of someone like that? It's pretty widely know about the atrocites that are taught and practiced by this religion on a daily basis.
I am beginning to understand the arguing with idiots book by glenn beck.


And you know this cause what? When was the last time that you sat down and had a conversation with the prophet muhammad?

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 03:58 PM
Per your logic if Joe Blow goes out and robs and kills a man and says he is a christian you say that he is not and he is falsely claiming christanity. If John Blow goes out and robs and kills a man and claims to be a muslim you say that he is representing all muslims and that islam is a dangerous religion. You sure know how to speak with a speak with a split tounge.
Jow blow the robber is acting in direct disobedience to the bible. What are the circumstances that this occured. It's a very blanket statement. Is it a lifetime of crime and murder? My guess would be he was not a Christian. Was Dahmer a Christian when he murdered a bunch of people? Was he possibly when he was murdered?
Does Christianity preach to convert or die? Does it preach that you will be rewarded if you become a Martyr by murdering the non believer?
How you come up with this stuff is mindboggling.....

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 04:01 PM
And you know this cause what? When was the last time that you sat down and had a conversation with the prophet muhammad?
I think you probably can find out alot of information if you take the time to study it. That's why we have books and records. Do you know anything about the man you keep defending??

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Jow blow the robber is acting in direct disobedience to the bible. What are the circumstances that this occured. It's a very blanket statement. Is it a lifetime of crime and murder? My guess would be he was not a Christian. Was Dahmer a Christian when he murdered a bunch of people? Was he possibly when he was murdered?
Does Christianity preach to convert or die? Does it preach that you will be rewarded if you become a Martyr by murdering the non believer?
How you come up with this stuff is mindboggling.....

So you are saying that there are circumstances in christanity that would justify robbery and murder? Christanity just like islam preaches that you should convert or that you will be subject to eternal damnation. So tell me again how christanity is superior to islam again???

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 04:07 PM
I think you probably can find out alot of information if you take the time to study it. That's why we have books and records. Do you know anything about the man you keep defending??


I know a lot more than you think. There are actually people who several years ago would have accused MLK or being a communist and a traitor to his country. Heck some of the same bigots still do and publish books and post writings on the internet saying so. Or if you want to get even deeper people have written negative things about Jesus Christ. If you want us to believe your slanderous remarks about muhammad then the next logical conclusion would be that you agree with the slanderous things written about Jesus and MLK.

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 04:10 PM
So you are saying that there are circumstances in christanity that would justify robbery and murder? Christanity just like islam preaches that you should convert or that you will be subject to eternal damnation. So tell me again how christanity is superior to islam again???
No, it doesn't justify. But I can't say the person was not a Christian and desperete for some reason. We all sin. I do everyday. I do on this board. We are faarrrrr from perfect. But your fruit can lead to an indication of your faith.
Christianity preaches that you will be judged by God at the end of your life. There is a free gift that will spare anyone from this fate.
Islam teaches to murder and be rewarded in the afterlife. To force conversion. ect ect.
I'm not sure how you can confuse the two.

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 04:13 PM
I know a lot more than you think. There are actually people who several years ago would have accused MLK or being a communist and a traitor to his country. Heck some of the same bigots still do and publish books and post writings on the internet saying so. Or if you want to get even deeper people have written negative things about Jesus Christ. If you want us to believe your slanderous remarks about muhammad then the next logical conclusion would be that you agree with the slanderous things written about Jesus and MLK.
You obviously know nothing about the life of muhammed.

theonedru
08-03-2011, 04:15 PM
Except you are making huge assumptions like the others on this board.
As stated before, I do not hate the individual. I fell sorry that they are deceived. I do not trust the religion itself. If you know anything about mohammeds life you would see what kind of individual he was. How can anything "peaceful" or "good" come out of someone like that? It's pretty widely know about the atrocites that are taught and practiced by this religion on a daily basis.
I am beginning to understand the arguing with idiots book by glenn beck.

The more you type the more hilarious you become when you begin to contradict yourself more and more :sign0020:

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 04:16 PM
The more you type the more hilarious you become when you begin to contradict yourself more and more :sign0020:
Really? do you know what a contradiction is??

theonedru
08-03-2011, 04:17 PM
Now that the children have had their fun lets get back to the OT. This Islam bashing is getting really old and tiresome, Lets move on. Does anyone even remember what this thread was even about........

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 04:18 PM
No, it doesn't justify. But I can't say the person was not a Christian and desperete for some reason. We all sin. I do everyday. I do on this board. We are faarrrrr from perfect. But your fruit can lead to an indication of your faith.
Christianity preaches that you will be judged by God at the end of your life. There is a free gift that will spare anyone from this fate.
Islam teaches to murder and be rewarded in the afterlife. To force conversion. ect ect.
I'm not sure how you can confuse the two.


How many mosques have you visited? How many muslims have you got a chance to spend time with on a personal level? You claim to be an expert on something that I would bet that you have little personal interaction with. The bible says "judge not let ye not be judged."

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 04:18 PM
"It goes without saying that the events that took place were horrific and a tragedy that should have never happened, however hopefully people will realize that performing acts of terrorism isn't exclusive to Islam, like is so commonly projected on these forums. (And if someone tries to say that that sort of rhetoric hasn't been posted on these forums they clearly haven't been reading closely/long enough) "

Are you one of the "children??"

theonedru
08-03-2011, 04:20 PM
how many mosques have you visited? How many muslims have you got a chance to spend time with on a personal level? You claim to be an expert on something that i would bet that you have little personal interaction with. The bible says "judge not let ye not be judged."

nothing more about muslims and islam please stick to the ot.

sanfran22
08-03-2011, 04:20 PM
How many mosques have you visited? How many muslims have you got a chance to spend time with on a personal level? You claim to be an expert on something that I would bet that you have little personal interaction with. The bible says "judge not let ye not be judged."
My wifes side of the family is primarily Muslim. Probably 50-75 of them. Never claimed to be an expert but I gaurentee I much closer to one then several in this thread including yourself.

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 04:24 PM
Now that the children have had their fun lets get back to the OT. This Islam bashing is getting really old and tiresome, Lets move on. Does anyone even remember what this thread was even about........

Yeah I was wondering the same thing. How does some guy in europe who killed a bunch of innocent people and had no known connection to any muslims have anything at all to do with islam. I guess that one of our buddies on here was out to show us that only muslims commit crimes and that the killer was secretly a muslim just like our president is. :sign0020:

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 07:40 PM
nothing more about muslims and islam please stick to the ot.


Sounds good to me. :winking0071:

duane1969
08-03-2011, 08:36 PM
What about Jerry Fallwell? He was not only a bible thumper but a known segregationist. Even though Fallwell is no longer with us there are a whole lot of Fallwell wannabes running around nowadays

One example.

Al-Queda, Hamas, Taliban, Jamaat Ansar al-Sunna, Aden-Abyan and GIA are entirely comprised of people who look like moderates but are actually extremists.

duane1969
08-03-2011, 08:38 PM
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. How does some guy in europe who killed a bunch of innocent people and had no known connection to any muslims have anything at all to do with islam. I guess that one of our buddies on here was out to show us that only muslims commit crimes and that the killer was secretly a muslim just like our president is. :sign0020:

Thanks for finally admitting it LOL :party0048: :cheer2:

mrveggieman
08-03-2011, 08:43 PM
I want to comment on the previous posts but I was asked to stay on topic. Do ya'll want to start a discussion tread about islam fact or fiction like we had about the bible a while back. If so somebody go ahead and start it. If not I'm going to move on from here because I got something else that I want to start up on a new thread.

Hairylemon
08-04-2011, 12:57 AM
So as normal the thread has turned in to religion bashing. White man kills 70+ white people mainly kids and all you can do is argue about Islam and Christianity. It's just like saying my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend.

mrveggieman
08-04-2011, 08:21 AM
So as normal the thread has turned in to religion bashing. White man kills 70+ white people mainly kids and all you can do is argue about Islam and Christianity. It's just like saying my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend.


Sad but true. SMH. :confused0024:

Star_Cards
08-04-2011, 11:32 AM
The difference we would have is I think it's a whole lot more prevalent then you probably do. That it is really not a religion of peace but rather overtaking and control by any means necessary. It's a "wolf in sheeps clothing" religion that has one true goal.
I agree that there are some that do not subscribe to that. But alot of the leaders are teaching that. The goal is to desensitize us to the religion with an "American version" and cryout that we are peaceful and mean no harm.
If you would just listen to what is going on I think you would hear a different goal.

From my experience a lot of people within many different religions want people to convert to their religion. Of course some people are way more concerned about other people's religious choices, but from the things I hear, each religion believes their way is the right way and should be the standard. In any given religion there are people that have different ways about going about this. Some are violent and some aren't. Neither defines a religion as a whole as far as my opinions go.