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mrveggieman
08-11-2011, 10:01 AM
I couldn't make this stuff up even if I try.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ann-coulter-joins-gay-conservative-group-190310016.html

pghin08
08-11-2011, 10:18 AM
Am I the only one who thinks she's fake? That she's not a conservative at all, but is just doing it to make money. There's nothing genuine about her.

Star_Cards
08-11-2011, 10:31 AM
I don't/can't listen to her on a regular basis, but don't really care for her. This is definitely an odd combo. I've never heard her opinions on homosexuality, but I would have guessed she was against it. I the surface of her joining this group one could say that I was wrong...

that said... I find this quote disturbing..


"I think all gays who were born gay are overwhelmingly conservative--maybe apolitical--and all those angry gays, causing trouble for everybody, I don't even think they were born gay, I just think they were angry at their fathers."

I guess she has the right to support whomever, but to insinuate non conservative gays aren't real gays and are angry is ridiculous and I guess follows suit with her typical venom spewing. The gays that she calls angry aren't angry for no reason. They are angry because people want to legislate that they aren't allowed some of the same rights as heterosexuals.

mrveggieman
08-11-2011, 10:50 AM
I don't/can't listen to her on a regular basis, but don't really care for her. This is definitely an odd combo. I've never heard her opinions on homosexuality, but I would have guessed she was against it. I the surface of her joining this group one could say that I was wrong...

that said... I find this quote disturbing..



I guess she has the right to support whomever, but to insinuate non conservative gays aren't real gays and are angry is ridiculous and I guess follows suit with her typical venom spewing. The gays that she calls angry aren't angry for no reason. They are angry because people want to legislate that they aren't allowed some of the same rights as heterosexuals.


Another prime example of conservative thinking at it's finest. :winking0071:

Star_Cards
08-11-2011, 10:58 AM
her way of claiming to know how to decipher a real gay and a fake gay my their political affiliations just goes to show you why I don't like her. Makes me not like her even more. That statement has to be the most idiotic statement. The fact that she seems okay with gays if they have similar views to her politically and not okay with them if they don't have her same political beliefs is a complete joke.

mrveggieman
08-11-2011, 11:01 AM
her way of claiming to know how to decipher a real gay and a fake gay my their political affiliations just goes to show you why I don't like her. Makes me not like her even more. That statement has to be the most idiotic statement. The fact that she seems okay with gays if they have similar views to her politically and not okay with them if they don't have her same political beliefs is a complete joke.


She kind or reminds me of how the republican party feels about herman cain as well as black people as a whole.

habsheaven
08-11-2011, 12:21 PM
Last time I saw her on TV, she was having a hard time holding her own against Joy Behar of all people. She is nothing but a lot of hot air. Make your money, and shut up already!! LOL.

sanfran22
08-11-2011, 04:22 PM
She kind or reminds me of how the republican party feels about herman cain as well as black people as a whole.
I thought you didn't like Cain? And this statement is absolutely asinine. Shows some true intellect.

Star_Cards
08-11-2011, 08:54 PM
Cain is for the fair tax so he can't be all bad. It would be awesome to get someone in office that backed a reform of the tax code in this country.

sanfran22
08-11-2011, 09:39 PM
Cain is for the fair tax so he can't be all bad. It would be awesome to get someone in office that backed a reform of the tax code in this country.
He's also held a real job and righted businesses in his life. That wouldn't be half bad as well. But I venture to guess it's the same old Romney machine that we're gonna get. (who also has held a real job and righted businesses)

Star_Cards
08-11-2011, 09:53 PM
He's also held a real job and righted businesses in his life. That wouldn't be half bad as well. But I venture to guess it's the same old Romney machine that we're gonna get. (who also has held a real job and righted businesses)

I'd guess that romney would be the GOP candidate as well. I don't know much about cain other than listening to him on Neal Boortz's show from time to time.

AUTaxMan
08-11-2011, 11:21 PM
I don't trust Romney. He changes his tune on certain issues depending on who he's talking to.

INTIMADATOR2007
08-11-2011, 11:38 PM
I don't trust Romney. He changes his tune on certain issues depending on who he's talking to.
Yep , He's just another tell the people what they want to hear talking head , But he his sooo much better than what we have now ,and will give the country time to heal from the whippin ol' Obama put on us until the next conservative candidate for president (Rubio,Christie,West ) time to get ready for 2016 and really fix this place . I prefer Cain but would love to have someone with the knowledge of the country like Newt and how it's suppose to work .

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 09:51 AM
I thought you didn't like Cain? And this statement is absolutely asinine. Shows some true intellect.

I don't like cain. The point I was trying to make is that a lot of conservatives don't like gays, just like they don't like blacks but they will deal with gays or blacks who share their same viewpoints, eg "conservative gays" or cains hatred of muslims.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 09:59 AM
Cain is for the fair tax so he can't be all bad. It would be awesome to get someone in office that backed a reform of the tax code in this country.

Cain is for the fair tax but he is also a bigot. And for that I can't vote for him. The only republican that I would even give the second look to is ron paul who is also for income tax reform and I'm not sure if he is even running in 2012.

pghin08
08-12-2011, 10:00 AM
Cain is for the fair tax but he is also a bigot. And for that I can't vote for him. The only republican that I would even give the second look to is ron paul who is also for income tax reform and I'm not sure if he is even running in 2012.

How is Cain a bigot?

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 10:04 AM
How is Cain a bigot?

Did you not hear about cain's hatred for muslims? SHM

pghin08
08-12-2011, 10:10 AM
Did you not hear about cain's hatred for muslims? SHM

I don't really see any radical difference in his view of Islam than most other Republican candidates. Is there something in particular you're referencing?

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 10:17 AM
I don't really see any radical difference in his view of Islam than most other Republican candidates. Is there something in particular you're referencing?


That's my whole point. How could I in good conscience vote for a canidate who dosent support and defend the first amendment for all of our country's citizens even if they have different religious viewpoints? That is why none of the current crop of republicans will get any love from me.

sanfran22
08-12-2011, 10:20 AM
That's my whole point. How could I in good conscience vote for a canidate who dosent support and defend the first amendment for all of our country's citizens even if they have different religious viewpoints? That is why none of the current crop of republicans will get any love from me.
How did he not support the first ammendment? He said he wouldn't have them in his cabinet. He didn't say they couldn't practice their religion to my knowledge.
I think you are confusing the First Ammendment with the civil rights act.
There would never be a republican that would get your support, be truthful. You are not down the middle as you try to portray.

pghin08
08-12-2011, 10:27 AM
That's my whole point. How could I in good conscience vote for a canidate who dosent support and defend the first amendment for all of our country's citizens even if they have different religious viewpoints? That is why none of the current crop of republicans will get any love from me.


To a point, I agree. Religious tolerance in this country is at a bit of a low point. But by the same token, I don't know any Republican candidates that actually want to take away a Muslim-American's right to free speech.

Frankly, freedom of speech also means freedom of ignorance. We have the right to our own opinions, no matter what those are. SanFran22 and I had a spirited debate about Islam last week, and we couldn't be farther apart from each other, but he has just as much right to feel the way he does as I do.

If Herman Cain literally stepped to the podium and demanded that we take away rights for Muslims, I'd feel differently. But given that most conservatives pride themselves on being "Constitutionalists" (which, by the by, they aren't, except for Ron Paul, that dude is legit), I doubt that would be a very prudent thing for him to do.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 10:40 AM
To a point, I agree. Religious tolerance in this country is at a bit of a low point. But by the same token, I don't know any Republican candidates that actually want to take away a Muslim-American's right to free speech.

Frankly, freedom of speech also means freedom of ignorance. We have the right to our own opinions, no matter what those are. SanFran22 and I had a spirited debate about Islam last week, and we couldn't be farther apart from each other, but he has just as much right to feel the way he does as I do.

If Herman Cain literally stepped to the podium and demanded that we take away rights for Muslims, I'd feel differently. But given that most conservatives pride themselves on being "Constitutionalists" (which, by the by, they aren't, except for Ron Paul, that dude is legit), I doubt that would be a very prudent thing for him to do.


The first amendment as you know also includes freedom of religion. And by cain placing restrictions on muslims by making them take a different oath he is therefore in favor of violating their first amendment rights and he loses any credibility that he would have had with me. If we allow politicians who can arbitrally take away some of our constitutional rights where will they stop?

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 10:42 AM
How did he not support the first ammendment? He said he wouldn't have them in his cabinet. He didn't say they couldn't practice their religion to my knowledge.
I think you are confusing the First Ammendment with the civil rights act.
There would never be a republican that would get your support, be truthful. You are not down the middle as you try to portray.

What's the difference between cain saying that he wouldn't have any muslims in his cabinet from him saying that he would not allow any whites or christians in his cabinet?

sanfran22
08-12-2011, 10:46 AM
What's the difference between cain saying that he wouldn't have any muslims in his cabinet from him saying that he would not allow any whites or christians in his cabinet?
That's not a violation of the first ammendment is it? Also, you are now making it a racial issue rather then religious. Two different issues.

pghin08
08-12-2011, 10:47 AM
What's the difference between cain saying that he wouldn't have any muslims in his cabinet from him saying that he would not allow any whites or christians in his cabinet?

This is a good point that brings up a larger debate. How big of an uproar would it be if he DID say that about whites or christians?

Though truly, by not including them in his Cabinet, he's not actually violating their first amendment rights. He's just making a personal choice. Were he to make them take a different oath, then yeah, you'd have an argument there.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 11:00 AM
That's not a violation of the first ammendment is it? Also, you are now making it a racial issue rather then religious. Two different issues.


Discrimination no mater who is being discriminated against is still discrimination. You don't care as long as you or your demographic is not being discriminated against. SMH.

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 11:01 AM
Him saying that he wouldn't have a muslim on his cabinet was a turn off for me as well and would be a hurdle for him to get my vote. Even with that though he's probably one of my more preferred GOP candidates as of now. Something about the new blood aspect intrigues me. I guess I think I see him as someone who really wants to mix things up rather than just seeing it as a career path.

As an atheist I could care about anyone's religion and it's the last thing I look at in a candidate unless they are overly vocal about their religion. If the person is a good fit for the cabinet I don't care what his religious beliefs are. Saying he wouldn't "hire" someone for his cabinet because of a religious belief is something no company can legally do out in the open so for him to say that even if he thinks it is rather short sighted.

sanfran22
08-12-2011, 11:04 AM
Discrimination no mater who is being discriminated against is still discrimination. You don't care as long as you or your demographic is not being discriminated against. SMH.
Did I say that? I'm just pointing out that your point is incorrect as usual.

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 11:08 AM
Discrimination no mater who is being discriminated against is still discrimination. You don't care as long as you or your demographic is not being discriminated against. SMH.

definitely true. It's funny how you hear from certain media outlets and people about how the christian religion is under attack and yet some of the same people who feel under attack as a christian continue to attack Islam. Hypocrisy at it's greatest.

ah, the joys of religion. lol

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 11:13 AM
Did I say that? I'm just pointing out that your point is incorrect as usual.

I don't see where his point is incorrect. I may not use what cain said to classify him as a bigot, but what he said did have bigoted tones. Saying that you would discriminate against who you would hire because of religious beliefs is pretty cut and dry. I would hope that if it came down to actually happening (him picking a cabinet) he would make his decisions because of experience and knowledge of a specific job over someone's blanket religious definition. It's sad that in his statement that he's classifying all muslims into one group when any religion is so open to interpretation you could get two people that attend the same church, temple, or mosque who have vastly varying views.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 11:21 AM
definitely true. It's funny how you hear from certain media outlets and people about how the christian religion is under attack and yet some of the same people who feel under attack as a christian continue to attack Islam. Hypocrisy at it's greatest.

ah, the joys of religion. lol

Can I get an amen!!!:cheer2:

pghin08
08-12-2011, 11:28 AM
I don't see where his point is incorrect. I may not use what cain said to classify him as a bigot, but what he said did have bigoted tones. Saying that you would discriminate against who you would hire because of religious beliefs is pretty cut and dry. I would hope that if it came down to actually happening (him picking a cabinet) he would make his decisions because of experience and knowledge of a specific job over someone's blanket religious definition. It's sad that in his statement that he's classifying all muslims into one group when any religion is so open to interpretation you could get two people that attend the same church, temple, or mosque who have vastly varying views.

What SanFran22 was saying is that Herman Cain saying that he won't appoint a Muslim to his cabinet isn't a violation of the first amendment, and he's right.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 11:29 AM
What SanFran22 was saying is that Herman Cain saying that he won't appoint a Muslim to his cabinet isn't a violation of the first amendment, and he's right.


I apologize. Cain technically did not violate the first amendment he is only advocating employment discrimination on the grounds of religion. I stand corrected. SMH.

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 11:31 AM
What SanFran22 was saying is that Herman Cain saying that he won't appoint a Muslim to his cabinet isn't a violation of the first amendment, and he's right.

okay not a first amendment violation (i wasn't even looking at that actual classification of what it violated), but a statement with tones of bigotry none the less.

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 11:31 AM
can i get an amen!!!:cheer2:

amen!

AUTaxMan
08-12-2011, 12:32 PM
Cain is for the fair tax but he is also a bigot. And for that I can't vote for him. The only republican that I would even give the second look to is ron paul who is also for income tax reform and I'm not sure if he is even running in 2012.

If you aren't sure whether Ron Paul is running in 2012, then you aren't educated enough to make an informed decision about any of the candidates IMO.

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 12:52 PM
If you aren't sure whether Ron Paul is running in 2012, then you aren't educated enough to make an informed decision about any of the candidates IMO.

how does anyone know if he will run in 2012? If he doesn't win the GOP nomination it's not a given that he'll run as an independent again.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 12:53 PM
If you aren't sure whether Ron Paul is running in 2012, then you aren't educated enough to make an informed decision about any of the candidates IMO.


And this is coming from someone who has no problem voting for someone who advocates employment discrimination on the basis of religion. Yeah you got a lot of credibility in regards to who is qualified to vote buddy.

AUTaxMan
08-12-2011, 12:59 PM
how does anyone know if he will run in 2012? If he doesn't win the GOP nomination it's not a given that he'll run as an independent again.

He wasn't talking about Ron Paul running as an independent. He was talking about him running as a republican, which, as any informed person knows, he is.

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

AUTaxMan
08-12-2011, 01:09 PM
And this is coming from someone who has no problem voting for someone who advocates employment discrimination on the basis of religion. Yeah you got a lot of credibility in regards to who is qualified to vote buddy.

Since when is not hiring someone for their political views employment discrimination? Cain's concern was with Muslim political views and how they could possibly affect his administration that would be contrary to Constitutional principles.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 02:28 PM
Since when is not hiring someone for their political views employment discrimination? Cain's concern was with Muslim political views and how they could possibly affect his administration that would be contrary to Constitutional principles.


Are you serious? You claim to be a lawyer and do not understand employment discrimination. Not hiring someone who is otherwise qualified to do a particular job soley because of their religion is employment discrimation. Also news flash not all muslims share the same political views just like all blacks, whites, christians, jews, etc do not share the same political views.

pghin08
08-12-2011, 02:32 PM
Since when is not hiring someone for their political views employment discrimination? Cain's concern was with Muslim political views and how they could possibly affect his administration that would be contrary to Constitutional principles.

Not hiring someone for non-performance related issues would probably be grounds for some sort of lawsuit. Because truly, Cain is discriminating.

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 02:52 PM
He wasn't talking about Ron Paul running as an independent. He was talking about him running as a republican, which, as any informed person knows, he is.

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

okay, so if he was talking about him only running as a republican then it is possible that he won't be running as a republican in 2012.

sanfran22
08-12-2011, 02:53 PM
I don't see where his point is incorrect. I may not use what cain said to classify him as a bigot, but what he said did have bigoted tones. Saying that you would discriminate against who you would hire because of religious beliefs is pretty cut and dry. I would hope that if it came down to actually happening (him picking a cabinet) he would make his decisions because of experience and knowledge of a specific job over someone's blanket religious definition. It's sad that in his statement that he's classifying all muslims into one group when any religion is so open to interpretation you could get two people that attend the same church, temple, or mosque who have vastly varying views.
His point is 100% incorrect. He stated it was a violation of the First Ammendment. Which it is not. It possibly violates title XII of the civil rights bill, but not the first ammendment. Just trying to point out the obvious flaw in the arguement.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 02:59 PM
His point is 100% incorrect. He stated it was a violation of the First Ammendment. Which it is not. It possibly violates title XII of the civil rights bill, but not the first ammendment. Just trying to point out the obvious flaw in the arguement.

Yes I stand corrected. It's ok for him to clearly violate employment discrimination laws and possibly the civil rights bill as long as he is not violating the first amendment. That's great to know.

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 03:02 PM
Since when is not hiring someone for their political views employment discrimination? Cain's concern was with Muslim political views and how they could possibly affect his administration that would be contrary to Constitutional principles.

whats the difference between a muslim political view and a regular muslim view? Any religion for that matter. I don;t see a difference between political or standard views.

I've been looking at this quote and a video of him speaking about it and he just says he would not hire a muslim because of some attempt to he's see that muslims are trying to establish sharia law within our country. lol

It's ironic that christians gladly do the exact same thing.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 03:06 PM
Cain is an idiot and a discrace to black people. (I am black btw). How could a blackman knowing our history of opression now turn around and advocate oppressing another group of people? He has 0 credibility in my book and needs to sit down and shut up.

Star_Cards
08-12-2011, 03:07 PM
His point is 100% incorrect. He stated it was a violation of the First Ammendment. Which it is not. It possibly violates title XII of the civil rights bill, but not the first ammendment. Just trying to point out the obvious flaw in the arguement.

Okay, fine. Let's discuss the fact of the statement Cain made that he wouldn't hire muslims as opposed to what amendment it violates. I was speaking about that, not what specifically it was in violation of. Some of you guys seem to want to worry about that moreso than the fact that a candidate outright would discriminate because of religious faith.

It's so sad that some people are so afraid of muslims acting like they are forcing people to become muslims here in america and yet they want to turn around and force their religious views on america as a whole. No religion should be allowed to do so. I can;t stand the hypocrisy. It's completely ridiculous.

sanfran22
08-12-2011, 03:50 PM
Okay, fine. Let's discuss the fact of the statement Cain made that he wouldn't hire muslims as opposed to what amendment it violates. I was speaking about that, not what specifically it was in violation of. Some of you guys seem to want to worry about that moreso than the fact that a candidate outright would discriminate because of religious faith.

It's so sad that some people are so afraid of muslims acting like they are forcing people to become muslims here in america and yet they want to turn around and force their religious views on america as a whole. No religion should be allowed to do so. I can;t stand the hypocrisy. It's completely ridiculous.
I never said Cains statement was correct. Matter of fact I don't think religion should matter in most cases. But the fact that the arguement was based on false pretences and a few on here believed it is frightening.

sanfran22
08-12-2011, 03:53 PM
Yes I stand corrected. It's ok for him to clearly violate employment discrimination laws and possibly the civil rights bill as long as he is not violating the first amendment. That's great to know.
I never said that, I'm simply stating you should know what you are talking about before you speak. And I actually semi agree with you on the discrimination matter. But that was not the issue. If you wanna speak on discrimination, fine. But don't bring things into the argumnet that are not relevant or that are downright incorrect. It has a negative effect on some on here that actually believed you.

mrveggieman
08-12-2011, 04:15 PM
I never said that, I'm simply stating you should know what you are talking about before you speak. And I actually semi agree with you on the discrimination matter. But that was not the issue. If you wanna speak on discrimination, fine. But don't bring things into the argumnet that are not relevant or that are downright incorrect. It has a negative effect on some on here that actually believed you.

What you and I are close to agreeing on something??? But anyways the first amendment guarantees freedom of religion that's protected by the us gov't. I would think that most of us on here can agree with that. However if cain is going to advocate job discrimination against muslims which clearly violates federal law if he (I pray to God this never happens) becomes president that he is sworn to uphold and defend, what's to stay that he wont go as far as to try to take away a muslims or anyone else's right to worship as he or she sees fit? It's not too far fetched.

theonedru
08-12-2011, 05:37 PM
i dont care if someone is spraypainted green and worships richard simmons big toe, if they are the best for the job then they deserve to be appointed. and if someone is ignorant enough to not see this then they need to get out of the 1950's.

duane1969
08-13-2011, 01:10 PM
I am often amazed at how you guys manage to go off track. This went from a thread about Ann Coulter joining a gay group to an argument about Cain being bigoted.

The scary part is that I followed it all and it all made sense to me :frusty:

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 10:22 AM
Are you serious? You claim to be a lawyer and do not understand employment discrimination. Not hiring someone who is otherwise qualified to do a particular job soley because of their religion is employment discrimation. Also news flash not all muslims share the same political views just like all blacks, whites, christians, jews, etc do not share the same political views.

Any job in the President's cabinet is heavily directed by the personal politics of the employee. The President determines the policy of his administration. Cain believes that Muslim politics and the direction in which he wants to guide his administration are irreparably at odds, and wants to fill his cabinet with people who share the same political philosophy that he does. Because of this, Cain said he wouldn't hire a Muslim. He actually later backtracked and said that he would if he was convinced that the person was dedicated to upholding the principles of the U.S. Constitution.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 10:23 AM
okay, so if he was talking about him only running as a republican then it is possible that he won't be running as a republican in 2012.

He is currently running for the republican presidential nomination is 2012.

pghin08
08-15-2011, 10:25 AM
Any job in the President's cabinet is heavily directed by the personal politics of the employee. The President determines the policy of his administration. Cain believes that Muslim politics and the direction in which he wants to guide his administration are irreparably at odds, and wants to fill his cabinet with people who share the same political philosophy that he does. Because of this, Cain said he wouldn't hire a Muslim. He actually later backtracked and said that he would if he was convinced that the person was dedicated to upholding the principles of the U.S. Constitution.

Smart move on his part. It was stupid for him to say that he wouldn't put Muslims in his Cabinet. Nobody would have batted an eye if he were elected President and he didn't have a Muslim in his cabinet. He should have just said what you did, that he'd fill his cabinet with people who he thought he could work well with, and whose philosophies were in line with his own.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 10:41 AM
Smart move on his part. It was stupid for him to say that he wouldn't put Muslims in his Cabinet. Nobody would have batted an eye if he were elected President and he didn't have a Muslim in his cabinet. He should have just said what you did, that he'd fill his cabinet with people who he thought he could work well with, and whose philosophies were in line with his own.

It was definitely a dumb thing to say, but it doesn't mean that he hates Muslims or wants the government to oppress the exercise of the Muslim faith in the U.S., as mrveg wants to believe.

pghin08
08-15-2011, 10:54 AM
It was definitely a dumb thing to say, but it doesn't mean that he hates Muslims or wants the government to oppress the exercise of the Muslim faith in the U.S., as mrveg wants to believe.

I agree, but it brings to the forefront the Christian fear of the Muslim faith. I doubt Herman Cain hates Muslims too, but it's a common American fear borne predominately out of ignorance. I don't think our government oppresses Muslims, nor do I think they ever would. But most American people do, in their own way. If a white Christian walks by an Arabic Muslim on the street, most of those white Christians harbor judgement towards them, even though the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful (judging by the millions of American Muslims who DIDN'T bomb us on 9/11).

I'm sure that you, as a seemingly conservative person, wouldn't want yourself judged by somebody else because another conservative, Timothy McVeigh, bombed the Murrah building in Oklahoma City.

To me, the problem isn't as much that Herman Cain said that he wouldn't have any Muslims in his cabinet, it's that a lot of Americans, presented with the same prospect, would say the same thing.

habsheaven
08-15-2011, 11:02 AM
Considering the audience he was targetting with the comment, he had little choice in the message he conveyed. He could have stated it in a more ambiguous way, but it would not have received the desired affect from his audience.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:02 AM
I agree, but it brings to the forefront the Christian fear of the Muslim faith. I doubt Herman Cain hates Muslims too, but it's a common American fear borne predominately out of ignorance. I don't think our government oppresses Muslims, nor do I think they ever would. But most American people do, in their own way. If a white Christian walks by an Arabic Muslim on the street, most of those white Christians harbor judgement towards them, even though the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful (judging by the millions of American Muslims who DIDN'T bomb us on 9/11).

I'm sure that you, as a seemingly conservative person, wouldn't want yourself judged by somebody else because another conservative, Timothy McVeigh, bombed the Murrah building in Oklahoma City.

To me, the problem isn't as much that Herman Cain said that he wouldn't have any Muslims in his cabinet, it's that a lot of Americans, presented with the same prospect, would say the same thing.

Do you think Cain's comments disqualify him from being a capable President?

pghin08
08-15-2011, 11:06 AM
Do you think Cain's comments disqualify him from being a capable President?

I don't think Cain's comments have anything to do at all with how good of a President he'd be.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 11:10 AM
It was definitely a dumb thing to say, but it doesn't mean that he hates Muslims or wants the government to oppress the exercise of the Muslim faith in the U.S., as mrveg wants to believe.


I know that you and your good buddy sanfran22 will never admit to it and that's ok but we all know that there is a fringe element out there that wants to take away everyone's right to live and worship as one see's fit. Most of those people are very conservative thinkers who don't respect anyone's viewpoints including their own. Also cain had to backtrack what he said or he would have lost any credibility as a politician. Just because he retracted his words dosen't mean that he still dosen't believe what he says. News flash policiticans lie.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:11 AM
I don't think Cain's comments have anything to do at all with how good of a President he'd be.

As they shouldn't. I just want the political debate from the dems side to be about substantive policy issues as opposed to hot button and largely irrelevant topics such as this.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:12 AM
I know that you and your good buddy sanfran22 will never admit to it and that's ok but we all know that there is a fringe element out there that wants to take away everyone's right to live and worship as one see's fit. Most of those people are very conservative thinkers who don't respect anyone's viewpoints including their own. Also cain had to backtrack what he said or he would have lost any credibility as a politician. Just because he retracted his words dosen't mean that he still dosen't believe what he says. News flash policiticans lie.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you that there is a fringe element that believes what you say. The fact that you try to classify all of those opposed to your viewpoint as advocating and being a part of that fringe element is where the problem lies. No republican presidential candidate stands for anything resembling that fringe position.

pghin08
08-15-2011, 11:16 AM
As they shouldn't. I just want the political debate from the dems side to be about substantive policy issues as opposed to hot button and largely irrelevant topics such as this.

I couldn't agree more. Both parties propagate these "shouting points" because it does exactly what you said, distracts people from legitimate policy issues. It keeps politicians from having to actually come up with ideas on how to fix things.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 11:16 AM
Do you think Cain's comments disqualify him from being a capable President?


If I could add my two cents I think the guy would be a terrible president. If he has that much dislike towards muslims who else would he advocate discriminating against? Gays, women, blacks (yes I know that cain is black), whites, hispanics, jews? Where does this guy stop? The president is responsible for protecting the best intrests of all of the citizens of the united states not just the ones that he agrees with politically or religiously.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:20 AM
If I could add my two cents I think the guy would be a terrible president. If he has that much dislike towards muslims who else would he advocate discriminating against? Gays, women, blacks (yes I know that cain is black), whites, hispanics, jews? Where does this guy stop? The president is responsible for protecting the best intrests of all of the citizens of the united states not just the ones that he agrees with politically or religiously.

You need to get it through your skull that he doesn't "dislike" Muslims. His comments were based on perceived political philosophy. You are projecting a viewpoint that is not attributable to him onto him and then forming an opinion about him based on your projection. That's prejudice.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 11:31 AM
You need to get it through your skull that he doesn't "dislike" Muslims. His comments were based on perceived political philosophy. You are projecting a viewpoint that is not attributable to him onto him and then forming an opinion about him based on your projection. That's prejudice.

So if Joe Blow was running for office and he came out and said that he will not have any chrstians working in his office but he then turns around and says that he likes christians but he does not trust them and does not believe that they will do an acceptable job in office. Would you be ok with that? Why or why not?

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:34 AM
So if Joe Blow was running for office and he came out and said that he will not have any chrstians working in his office but he then turns around and says that he likes christians but he does not trust them and does not believe that they will do an acceptable job in office. Would you be ok with that? Why or why not?

That would not happen because there are not armies of Christians forming around the world with the sole goal of wiping out Western civilization in the name of Christianity. Do you not see the distinction?

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 12:00 PM
That would not happen because there are not armies of Christians forming around the world with the sole goal of wiping out Western civilization in the name of Christianity. Do you not see the distinction?


You must not surf the internet that much. There are thousands of right wing fanatics that want to destroy anyone who is not white or christian. Have you ever heard of a guy named Timothy McVeigh? Using your same logic we should be ok if a canidate openly says he will not have any christians working for him because if Timothy MvVeigh can murder 168 innocent people because of his christian beliefs then all christians are no good. Right.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 12:12 PM
You must not surf the internet that much. There are thousands of right wing fanatics that want to destroy anyone who is not white or christian. Have you ever heard of a guy named Timothy McVeigh? Using your same logic we should be ok if a canidate openly says he will not have any christians working for him because if Timothy MvVeigh can murder 168 innocent people because of his christian beliefs then all christians are no good. Right.

Your entire supposition is ludicrous. How much of a treat to national security do those you speak of pose, compared with that of Muslim extremists? Do militant Christians run entire nations? Do they have tremendous influence over the world's energy? Are they actively oppressing women and gays by the hundreds of thousands? No. They are largely irrelevant. The Muslim extremists, not so much.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 01:15 PM
Your entire supposition is ludicrous. How much of a treat to national security do those you speak of pose, compared with that of Muslim extremists? Do militant Christians run entire nations? Do they have tremendous influence over the world's energy? Are they actively oppressing women and gays by the hundreds of thousands? No. They are largely irrelevant. The Muslim extremists, not so much.


Yes to all of your questions. Mr Taxman do you live in America?

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 01:20 PM
Yes to all of your questions. Mr Taxman what do you live in America?

Are you saying that America is a nation run by militant Christian extremists?

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 02:05 PM
Are you saying that America is a nation run by militant Christian extremists?


There are a lot of them over here. Enough to give the muslim extremists a run for their money if push comes to shove.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 02:12 PM
There are a lot of them over here. Enough to give the muslim extremists a run for their money if push comes to shove.

What, maybe a couple of thousand? Not enough to pose any real threat to national security nor to influence anything politically. You simply cannot compare them to militant Muslims and their worldwide influence.

pghin08
08-15-2011, 02:14 PM
I'm not sure there are massive quantities of either within the US.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 02:15 PM
I'm not sure there are massive quantities of either within the US.

There aren't. He is comparing a couple thousand nutjobs in the U.S. with the Muslim extremists who run the entire Middle East and saying that we should be just as suspect of one group as we are the other.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 02:37 PM
There aren't. He is comparing a couple thousand nutjobs in the U.S. with the Muslim extremists who run the entire Middle East and saying that we should be just as suspect of one group as we are the other.


Were you asleep from 2001-2008 when we had the right wing religious extremist over here who stole 2 presidental elections?

pghin08
08-15-2011, 03:33 PM
Were you asleep from 2001-2008 when we had the right wing religious extremist over here who stole 2 presidental elections?

Dude. I didn't like Bush either, but he wasn't a religious extremist, and surely wasn't prejudiced. Heck, he's friends with most of the bin Laden family. :sign0020:

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 03:35 PM
Dude. I didn't like Bush either, but he wasn't a religious extremist, and surely wasn't prejudiced. Heck, he's friends with most of the bin Laden family. :sign0020:

You are absolutely right about that. :winking0071:

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 04:14 PM
Were you asleep from 2001-2008 when we had the right wing religious extremist over here who stole 2 presidental elections?

You win. :frusty:

duane1969
08-15-2011, 11:14 PM
Were you asleep from 2001-2008 when we had the right wing religious extremist over here who stole 2 presidental elections?

This is always the funniest thing I hear liberals say. You guys put Al "I Invented The Internet" Gore up first and then followed that up with an encore presentation featuring John "The Gun Boat Flip-Flopper" Kerry and then you want to blame some other reason for losing.

The Dems lost in 2000 and 2004 for one very simple reason, they put the biggest idiots in their party up for election.

habsheaven
08-16-2011, 08:12 AM
This is always the funniest thing I hear liberals say. You guys put Al "I Invented The Internet" Gore up first and then followed that up with an encore presentation featuring John "The Gun Boat Flip-Flopper" Kerry and then you want to blame some other reason for losing.

The Dems lost in 2000 and 2004 for one very simple reason, they put the biggest idiots in their party up for election.

I gotta admit, he has a point.

mrveggieman
08-16-2011, 09:30 AM
This is always the funniest thing I hear liberals say. You guys put Al "I Invented The Internet" Gore up first and then followed that up with an encore presentation featuring John "The Gun Boat Flip-Flopper" Kerry and then you want to blame some other reason for losing.

The Dems lost in 2000 and 2004 for one very simple reason, they put the biggest idiots in their party up for election.

I do agree with you that kerry was flip flopper and I wasn't really a big fan of gore but either one of them still would have been better than the villiage idiot gwb. :winking0071:

pghin08
08-16-2011, 09:39 AM
This is always the funniest thing I hear liberals say. You guys put Al "I Invented The Internet" Gore up first and then followed that up with an encore presentation featuring John "The Gun Boat Flip-Flopper" Kerry and then you want to blame some other reason for losing.

The Dems lost in 2000 and 2004 for one very simple reason, they put the biggest idiots in their party up for election.


Not at all true.

http://enduringsense1.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/pelosi_1.jpg

For your consideration.

sanfran22
08-16-2011, 10:14 AM
Not at all true.

http://enduringsense1.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/pelosi_1.jpg

For your consideration.
We have a winner!! DING DING DING (bat).....:sign0020: