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View Full Version : Have the Republicans hijacked the Tea Party, or is it the other way around?



pghin08
08-15-2011, 10:42 AM
Looking for opinions on this. I'm trying to decide who is using who here. With Michelle Bachmann's "win" in Iowa, along with the debt ceiling resolution and the 2010 mid-terms, who is in charge of...

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 11:23 AM
Now it's as if the Tea Party has become the party of cutting spending, not raising taxes, abolishing the Fed, outlawing abortions,




Such noble goals it would be nice if the tea party really had the best intrests of our wallets and the unborn at heart but we all know that is not their real agenda. The tea party is hell bent on not just defeating President Obama but to embarass and destroy his legacy and we all know why the tea party wants to do that.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:31 AM
The Tea Party is much more representative of the Republican base as the media would have us believe. Most republicans are tired of the old boy network and the irresponsible and out of control...

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:32 AM
Such noble goals it would be nice if the tea party really had the best intrests of our wallets and the unborn at heart but we all know that is not their real agenda. The tea party is hell bent on not just defeating President Obama but to embarass and destroy his legacy and we all know why the tea party wants to do that.

That has nothing to do with it. You need to shed that giant chip from your shoulder.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 11:34 AM
That has nothing to do with it. You need to shed that giant chip from your shoulder.


Don't be mad at me. I'm just calling it as I see it. :winking0071:

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:35 AM
Don't be mad at me. I'm just calling it as I see it. :winking0071:

You are seeing what you want to see as opposed to seeing the truth.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 11:52 AM
You are seeing what you want to see as opposed to seeing the truth.

It's amazing how gwb had 8 years to set the country back to the 18th century and we didn't hear 1 word from the tea party then all of the sudden President Obama gets elected if he uses the wrong fork at the dinner table on his first day in office some people are ready to have him arrested for treason. Things that make you go hmmm......:confused0024:

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 11:57 AM
It's amazing how gwb had 8 years to set the country back to the 18th century and we didn't hear 1 word from the tea party then all of the sudden President Obama gets elected if he uses the wrong fork at the dinner table on his first day in office some people are ready to have him arrested for treason. Things that make you go hmmm......:confused0024:

Obama has more than doubled down on Bush's spending. He has done plenty to warrant the boot from the WH.

Since we all apparently agree that Bush's spending was out of control, shouldn't we also say the same about Obama, who has done 10x the damage that Bush did?

Or is it acceptable to simply say that because people weren't complaining when Bush did it, then we shouldn't complain about Obama being Bush on steroids?

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 12:03 PM
Obama has more than doubled down on Bush's spending. He has done plenty to warrant the boot from the WH.

Since we all apparently agree that Bush's spending was out of control, shouldn't we also say the same about Obama, who has done 10x the damage that Bush did?

Or is it acceptable to simply say that because people weren't complaining when Bush did it, then we shouldn't complain about Obama being Bush on steroids?


I think that we can both agree that there is/was too much gov't spending on both sides. However this is were we are going to disagree. Bush bought us into this mess. Obama is doing everything he can think of to clean the mess up. However no matter what he does people will complain and his political foes will sabatoge whatever he does even if it is for the betterment of our country.

pghin08
08-15-2011, 12:15 PM
The Tea Party is much more representative of the Republican base as the media would have us believe. Most republicans are tired of the old boy network and the irresponsible and out of control spending that it generated under Bush.

I don't think our founders would have regarded not raising taxes as an extreme right wing idea.

Where is the list of their goals, and what 90% do you have a problem with?


Remember the "Contract with America"?

http://www.house.gov/house/Contract/CONTRACT.html

Issues with the 10 proposed bills:

1. "Fiscal Responsibility Act"- Gives the President the power of a line-item veto on the matter of ousting what he/she deems as "wasteful spending". WAY too much power to the executive branch.

2. "Taking Back our Streets Act"- This whole thing is a crock of crap. More money and more people in prisons. We have the highest per capita incarceration rate by FAR, and this will only make things worse. Just an awful idea. You want wasteful spending? How about keeping someone who had an ounce of weed on them in jail for five years using taxpayer money? No thanks.

3. "Personal Responsibility Act"- This is their welfare reform program, and there are a few decent ideas in here (consolidating, more welfare to work training programs), but the attack on the AFDC program is harsh, and will likely do nothing to combat illegitimate pregnancies (teenagers will ALWAYS have sex)

4. "Family Reinforcement Act"- It's kind of difficult to dislike child protection laws. I don't really have issues with this.

5. "American Dream Restoration Act"- People pay more in taxes than food, clothing and shelter combined? Where the heck did they get those numbers? Apparently Congressional Tea Partiers don't have mortgages. Sheesh. Plus, the reinforcement of pretty much the Roth IRA idea (they call it the American Dream Savings Account, because Roth IRA just isn't patriotic enough). It's a bad tax deal for the government. Government collects short term money (you're taxed on your contributions upon making them), but picks up zero long term revenue (you aren't taxed on your withdrawals, therefore are able to grow tax-free). Really nothing different from what already exists.

6. "National Security Restoration Act"- We continue to spend obscene amounts of money on national defense, mostly in preparation for the type of ground war that was prevalent 50 years ago, but not now. War has changed, but the way we spend our money on it hasn't. Total crap.

7. "Senior Citizens Fairness Act"- If we lower the Social Security tax, everything will just fix itself, right? Our government is so in the pocket of AARP it's pathetic. Both parties.

8. "Job Creation and Wage Enhancement Act"- More deregulation. As if the energy crisis of the 70s and early 2000s and the banking collapse in 2008/09 wasn't sign enough of the dangers of deregulation.

9. "Common Sense Legal Reform Act"- It is exactly what it says it is, common sense. I think most people would agree that our society has become a bit too litigious.

10. "Citizen Legislator Act"- Senate and House term limits. I don't see this as important in the slightest. You can do as much damage in the House in 2 years as you can in 20.


Just a few opinions on the 10 provisions.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 12:17 PM
I think that we can both agree that there is/was too much gov't spending on both sides. However this is were we are going to disagree. Bush bought us into this mess. Obama is doing everything he can think of to clean the mess up. However no matter what he does people will complain and his political foes will sabatoge whatever he does even if it is for the betterment of our country.

Obama's policies have done enough to do him in. Stop talking about Bush. He had control of the WH and both houses of Congress for two years and couldn't right the economic ship. He ought to be brought down for his failed policies. Obama blamed the economy on Bush's out of control spending, and instead of reining in the congress, he decides we need to spend even more.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 12:23 PM
Remember the "Contract with America"?

http://www.house.gov/house/Contract/CONTRACT.html

Issues with the 10 proposed bills:

1. "Fiscal Responsibility Act"- Gives the President the power of a line-item veto on the matter of ousting what he/she deems as "wasteful spending". WAY too much power to the executive branch.

2. "Taking Back our Streets Act"- This whole thing is a crock of crap. More money and more people in prisons. We have the highest per capita incarceration rate by FAR, and this will only make things worse. Just an awful idea. You want wasteful spending? How about keeping someone who had an ounce of weed on them in jail for five years using taxpayer money? No thanks.

3. "Personal Responsibility Act"- This is their welfare reform program, and there are a few decent ideas in here (consolidating, more welfare to work training programs), but the attack on the AFDC program is harsh, and will likely do nothing to combat illegitimate pregnancies (teenagers will ALWAYS have sex)

4. "Family Reinforcement Act"- It's kind of difficult to dislike child protection laws. I don't really have issues with this.

5. "American Dream Restoration Act"- People pay more in taxes than food, clothing and shelter combined? Where the heck did they get those numbers? Apparently Congressional Tea Partiers don't have mortgages. Sheesh. Plus, the reinforcement of pretty much the Roth IRA idea (they call it the American Dream Savings Account, because Roth IRA just isn't patriotic enough). It's a bad tax deal for the government. Government collects short term money (you're taxed on your contributions upon making them), but picks up zero long term revenue (you aren't taxed on your withdrawals, therefore are able to grow tax-free). Really nothing different from what already exists.

6. "National Security Restoration Act"- We continue to spend obscene amounts of money on national defense, mostly in preparation for the type of ground war that was prevalent 50 years ago, but not now. War has changed, but the way we spend our money on it hasn't. Total crap.

7. "Senior Citizens Fairness Act"- If we lower the Social Security tax, everything will just fix itself, right? Our government is so in the pocket of AARP it's pathetic. Both parties.

8. "Job Creation and Wage Enhancement Act"- More deregulation. As if the energy crisis of the 70s and early 2000s and the banking collapse in 2008/09 wasn't sign enough of the dangers of deregulation.

9. "Common Sense Legal Reform Act"- It is exactly what it says it is, common sense. I think most people would agree that our society has become a bit too litigious.

10. "Citizen Legislator Act"- Senate and House term limits. I don't see this as important in the slightest. You can do as much damage in the House in 2 years as you can in 20.


Just a few opinions on the 10 provisions.

What does that have to do with the Tea Party? It's almost 20 years old.

pghin08
08-15-2011, 12:30 PM
What does that have to do with the Tea Party? It's almost 20 years old.

my bad, meant the "Contract FROM America". Darn patriotic name confusion.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 01:13 PM
Obama's policies have done enough to do him in. Stop talking about Bush. He had control of the WH and both houses of Congress for two years and couldn't right the economic ship. He ought to be brought down for his failed policies. Obama blamed the economy on Bush's out of control spending, and instead of reining in the congress, he decides we need to spend even more.


I wouldn't have to blame bush if he didn't steal 2 elections.

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 01:14 PM
I wouldn't have to blame bush if he didn't steal 2 elections.

False and irrelevant to Obama.

sanfran22
08-15-2011, 02:19 PM
I wouldn't have to blame bush if he didn't steal 2 elections.
:sign0020:
All that needs to be said.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 02:39 PM
:sign0020:
All that needs to be said.


Is that the best you can do? Obama was legally elected to the seat and all you can do is make up rumors of him not being in the united states. Bush clearly stole the election and you turn a blind eye. :confused0024:

Star_Cards
08-15-2011, 02:43 PM
I wouldn't have to blame bush if he didn't steal 2 elections.

bush didn't steal either election. The one against gore, yes he lost the popular vote but that's not what the system looks at when they calculate who has won. He won the electoral vote and that's what matters. I'm not familiar with any sort of question about the second election. I think the fact that the Dems put Kerry against him was why he won. That was a huge mistake.

Star_Cards
08-15-2011, 02:45 PM
Back on topic, I will say that it looks as if the tea party and the GOP have definite close ties.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 02:55 PM
bush didn't steal either election. The one against gore, yes he lost the popular vote but that's not what the system looks at when they calculate who has won. He won the electoral vote and that's what matters. I'm not familiar with any sort of question about the second election. I think the fact that the Dems put Kerry against him was why he won. That was a huge mistake.


Normally you and I agree on most of the issues but I have to differ with you on this one. Yes I am aware of how the electorial collage process works. That wasn't what is was referring to. What I am referring to is the republican's massive voter fraud and intidation in both the 2000 and 2004 election. If you don't believe me ask any black person who tried to vote in florida in 2000 or ohio in 2004.

sanfran22
08-15-2011, 02:56 PM
Normally you and I agree on most of the issues but I have to differ with you on this one. Yes I am aware of how the electorial collage process works. That wasn't what is was referring to. What I am referring to is the republican's massive voter fraud and intidation in both the 2000 and 2004 election. If you don't believe me ask any black person who tried to vote in florida in 2000 or ohio in 2004.
Or ask any white person who tried to vote in Philly...come on man, get a grip in reality...seriously.

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 03:01 PM
Or ask any white person who tried to vote in Philly...come on man, get a grip in reality...seriously.


Dude are you serious? What sense would it make to stop white people in Philly or anywhere else since you have no idea how they are going to vote. Come at me again with a better comeback.

sanfran22
08-15-2011, 03:03 PM
Dude are you serious? What sense would it make to stop white people in Philly or anywhere else since you have no idea how they are going to vote. Come at me again with a better comeback.
Oh, I don't know....maybe this??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU

You really have a lot to learn in your small circle.......

Star_Cards
08-15-2011, 03:30 PM
Normally you and I agree on most of the issues but I have to differ with you on this one. Yes I am aware of how the electorial collage process works. That wasn't what is was referring to. What I am referring to is the republican's massive voter fraud and intidation in both the 2000 and 2004 election. If you don't believe me ask any black person who tried to vote in florida in 2000 or ohio in 2004.

I can't speak to any sort of issues with anyone keeping or being kept from voting.

pghin08
08-15-2011, 03:31 PM
Voter intimidation happens during every national election. It sucks, but it goes both ways. Bush probably would have lost in 2004 if we hadn't nominated Kerry. I remember standing in that booth, realizing that I'd almost rather write in Captain Crunch than vote for either of those two (I didn't).

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 03:33 PM
Oh, I don't know....maybe this??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU

You really have a lot to learn in your small circle.......


Dude come at me with something better than that. That could have been anywhere. He could have been doing security at an apartment. There's no proof that had anything to do with an election. If that really would have happened it would have been all over the news. Let's just say for the sake of argument that did happened as you said it did (even though it didn't) then you are trying to make the comparision of one isolated incident in a run down apartment complex over a rampant state wide voter intimidation ordered by the governor of florida. You really need to get a grip my friend.

sanfran22
08-15-2011, 03:52 PM
Dude come at me with something better than that. That could have been anywhere. He could have been doing security at an apartment. There's no proof that had anything to do with an election. If that really would have happened it would have been all over the news. Let's just say for the sake of argument that did happened as you said it did (even though it didn't) then you are trying to make the comparision of one isolated incident in a run down apartment complex over a rampant state wide voter intimidation ordered by the governor of florida. You really need to get a grip my friend.
You really have no clue...thanks for playing though.........

Star_Cards
08-15-2011, 04:00 PM
Voter intimidation happens during every national election. It sucks, but it goes both ways. Bush probably would have lost in 2004 if we hadn't nominated Kerry. I remember standing in that booth, realizing that I'd almost rather write in Captain Crunch than vote for either of those two (I didn't).

I don't disagree that it doesn't happen. I would hope that if it ever happened to me I wouldn't let it effect me.

yes, captain crunch would have had my vote over kerry. lol

AUTaxMan
08-15-2011, 04:03 PM
Dude come at me with something better than that. That could have been anywhere. He could have been doing security at an apartment. There's no proof that had anything to do with an election. If that really would have happened it would have been all over the news. Let's just say for the sake of argument that did happened as you said it did (even though it didn't) then you are trying to make the comparision of one isolated incident in a run down apartment complex over a rampant state wide voter intimidation ordered by the governor of florida. You really need to get a grip my friend.

Not sure if serious, since this was a national news story.

There's this: http://biggovernment.com/sright/2010/07/09/new-black-panther-party-president-admits-to-philadelphia-voter-intimidation-holders-justice-department-still-silent/

Also this: http://www.davidstuff.com/incorrect/wsj12.htm

mrveggieman
08-15-2011, 08:01 PM
I don't disagree that it doesn't happen. I would hope that if it ever happened to me I wouldn't let it effect me.

yes, captain crunch would have had my vote over kerry. lol

Captain Crunch would have been a better alternative than gwb or any current republican canidate who is running right now.

sanfran22
08-15-2011, 08:58 PM
The power companies were not totally deregulated. That can be a large part of the issue as well. <br />
Here's a decent article I dug up while researching a few other things.... <br />
California Electricity...

tutall
08-15-2011, 10:03 PM
Normally you and I agree on most of the issues but I have to differ with you on this one. Yes I am aware of how the electorial collage process works. That wasn't what is was referring to. What I am referring to is the republican's massive voter fraud and intidation in both the 2000 and 2004 election. If you don't believe me ask any black person who tried to vote in florida in 2000 or ohio in 2004.

you really want to talk about voter intimidation and race?????

tutall
08-15-2011, 10:06 PM
Dude come at me with something better than that. That could have been anywhere. He could have been doing security at an apartment. There's no proof that had anything to do with an election. If that really would have happened it would have been all over the news. Let's just say for the sake of argument that did happened as you said it did (even though it didn't) then you are trying to make the comparision of one isolated incident in a run down apartment complex over a rampant state wide voter intimidation ordered by the governor of florida. You really need to get a grip my friend.

....It was all over the news... I rarely watch any news or read anything not financial related and I heard about this one so it must have been pretty wide spread... Can you provide something about the governor of florida ordering voter intimidation?

tutall
08-15-2011, 10:10 PM
Captain Crunch would have been a better alternative than gwb or any current republican canidate who is running right now.

What specific fiscal policies do you disagree with them on? I dont want an answer invoving the terms George Bush, Iraq, or tea party... Just an idea they have that you disagree with involving economics, spending, taxing.... whatever floats your boat

duane1969
08-15-2011, 11:04 PM
Guys lately there has been a serious issue with thread hijacking (going OT). This thread is clearly not about voter intimidation. Keep it on topic or stay out of the discussion.

--------------------------------------

As for the original purpose of this thread, as a conservative I think that the Tea Party and Republican party have unofficially united in a common goal. Right now the movement is to stop spending, reduce taxes and get the control of the government back into the hands of the people. A noble cause regardless of party name IMO.

What remains to be seen is what will happen to the Tea Party after the Republicans win back the WH. My honest opinion is that they will fade away which in essence means that they will have been absorbed back into the party that they came from.

AUTaxMan
08-16-2011, 09:39 AM
Captain Crunch would have been a better alternative than gwb or any current republican canidate who is running right now.

Would love for you to expand on this brilliant take with respect to the current republican candidates.

pghin08
08-16-2011, 09:42 AM
Thanks man. Solid info in there.

mrveggieman
08-16-2011, 10:09 AM
Guys lately there has been a serious issue with thread hijacking (going OT). This thread is clearly not about voter intimidation. Keep it on topic or stay out of the discussion.

--------------------------------------

As for the original purpose of this thread, as a conservative I think that the Tea Party and Republican party have unofficially united in a common goal. Right now the movement is to stop spending, reduce taxes and get the control of the government back into the hands of the people. A noble cause regardless of party name IMO.

What remains to be seen is what will happen to the Tea Party after the Republicans win back the WH. My honest opinion is that they will fade away which in essence means that they will have been absorbed back into the party that they came from.


Sorry about everyone's hijacking of this thread but you know how everyone gets hot and bothered talking about politics. But answering your post I do think that the tea party and the rest of the republicans are joined at the hip with one goal to try to defeat President Obama by any means necessary despite any good that he accompolishes or tries to accompolish. SMH.

AUTaxMan
08-16-2011, 10:14 AM
Sorry about everyone's hijacking of this thread but you know how everyone gets hot and bothered talking about politics. But answering your post I do think that the tea party and the rest of the republicans are joined at the hip with one goal to try to defeat President Obama by any means necessary despite any good that he accompolishes or tries to accompolish. SMH.

What good has he accompolished?

sanfran22
08-16-2011, 10:16 AM
What good has he accompolished?
My question as well, but it never gets answered....probably need to start a new thread on that one....

AUTaxMan
08-16-2011, 10:19 AM
My question as well, but it never gets answered....probably need to start a new thread on that one....

Done, in the spirit of not hijacking the thread:
http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?p=10253546#post10253546

mrveggieman
08-16-2011, 10:31 AM
What good has he accompolished?

If you don't already know what our president has been doing for us during his term in office then nothing I will say on here will convince you. Both you and sanfran22 already had your minds made up against him before he even took office so it's no need wasting anyone's time discussing all that he as done and tried to do but was blocked by YOUR republican party.

AUTaxMan
08-16-2011, 10:33 AM
If you don't already know what our president has been doing for us during his term in office then nothing I will say on here will convince you. Both you and sanfran22 already had your minds made up against him before he even took office so it's no need wasting anyone's time discussing all that he as done and tried to do but was blocked by YOUR republican party.

Please take this discussion to the new thread. I am not accepting this as an answer. Answer the question with specifics, and we will debate them, as opposed to this empty rhetoric.

sanfran22
08-16-2011, 10:37 AM
If you don't already know what our president has been doing for us during his term in office then nothing I will say on here will convince you. Both you and sanfran22 already had your minds made up against him before he even took office so it's no need wasting anyone's time discussing all that he as done and tried to do but was blocked by YOUR republican party.
Lol, he had alot of power to do whatever up until recently so that's not a valid argument.

mrveggieman
08-16-2011, 10:39 AM
Please take this discussion to the new thread. I am not accepting this as an answer. Answer the question with specifics, and we will debate them, as opposed to this empty rhetoric.


I'm looking forward to your response over there.