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View Full Version : Interesting read on Rick Perry



andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 09:43 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-sad-facts-behind-rick-perrys-texas-miracle/2011/08/16/gIQAxc3zJJ_story.html?fb_ref=NetworkNews


Yes.... He created jobs, but I think the rest of this stuff cancels it out.



t has the fourth-highest poverty rate of any state. It tied with Mississippi last year for the highest percentage of workers in minimum-wage jobs. It ranks first in adults without high school diplomas. Twenty-six percent of Texans have no health insurance the highest percentage of medically uninsured residents of any state. It leads the nation in the percentage of children who lack medical insurance.


This year, though, when confronted with a $27 billion budget deficit, Perry did not raise taxes but instead slashed $4 billion from K-12 schools.

pghin08
08-17-2011, 09:56 AM
The more I read, the more I'm convinced there are better options out there for Republicans.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 09:59 AM
The more I read, the more I'm convinced there are better options out there for Republicans.

Ron Paul:horn:

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 10:11 AM
I would imagine that the huge immigrant issue would have alot to do with everything you just listed. Just a guess but that would make sense....
On the schools, I believe they have some of the top in the nation if you dig deep into stats. Money doesn't solve the problems.

pghin08
08-17-2011, 10:17 AM
I would imagine that the huge immigrant issue would have alot to do with everything you just listed. Just a guess but that would make sense....
On the schools, I believe they have some of the top in the nation if you dig deep into stats. Money doesn't solve the problems.

But you can't argue how bad their HS graduation rate is. A few top schools don't make a lick of difference if the other 99% suck.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 10:19 AM
I would imagine that the huge immigrant issue would have alot to do with everything you just listed. Just a guess but that would make sense....
On the schools, I believe they have some of the top in the nation if you dig deep into stats. Money doesn't solve the problems.

http://education.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-high-schools/rankings/gold-medal-list

11 out of the top 100. But you also have to remember that Texas is one of the largest states. More kids=more schools. Half of the schools suck.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 10:21 AM
but you can't argue how bad their hs graduation rate is. A few top schools don't make a lick of difference if the other 99% suck.

+1

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 10:23 AM
http://education.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-high-schools/rankings/gold-medal-list

11 out of the top 100. But you also have to remember that Texas is one of the largest states. More kids=more schools. Half of the schools suck.
Again, look at the immigration issue. Just seems to paint a bigger picture. I'll find the article that broke down the big picture......

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 10:24 AM
Again, look at the immigration issue. Just seems to paint a bigger picture.

And so instead of helping expand the school system to fix that issue and get more kids learning he cuts $4,000,000,000 from the budget. Got it, makes perfect sense.

pghin08
08-17-2011, 10:27 AM
Again, look at the immigration issue. Just seems to paint a bigger picture. I'll find the article that broke down the big picture......

The article andrewhoya posted touches on this. The gap between test scores on the White-Blacks-Hispanics is not as large in Texas as it is in other states, which would defeat a bit of the immigration theory.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 10:27 AM
And so instead of helping expand the school system to fix that issue and get more kids learning he cuts $4,000,000,000 from the budget. Got it, makes perfect sense.
He could expand the schools by a zillion. Would it necessarily help?

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 10:28 AM
He could expand the schools by a zillion. Would it necessarily help?

Expand as in provide better tools to the children to help then learn and grow.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 10:34 AM
Expand as in provide better tools to the children to help then learn and grow.
Or expand in "throwing money at the problem"? Not saying there isn't an issue, but I think it is a bit misleading.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 10:39 AM
Or expand in "throwing money at the problem"? Not saying there isn't an issue, but I think it is a bit misleading.

How are you going to get better tools to learn? Hope that someone donates it?

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 10:46 AM
How are you going to get better tools to learn? Hope that someone donates it?
So you know that they don't have whats necessasary to learn? You know where the money was cut? It wasn't going to pensions and unions like in Ohio? You are making a ton of assumptions.....

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 10:47 AM
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/badgering-the-witless.html

Here's an interesting read.............

Now, onto dropout rates.
I had a few people email accusing me of "ignoring" the hideous dropout rate in Texas, reported by Krugman as over 38%. In no case have I seen a source citation for this number, which appear to have sprung, like the Goddess Venus, fully formed from a mythical clamshell.
A couple of notes on this. First, it appears that different states have traditionally used different definitions of "dropout." (http://www.ncset.org/publications/essentialtools/dropout/part1.2.asp) Some are more indicative of simple attrition - for example if High School X has an incoming freshman class of 200 students, and only 130 of those freshman graduated with the class 4 years later, it had a 35% "dropout rate" - regardless of the reason. Other states were more dilligent in tracking where the lost students went (GED, transfer to private schools, work, jail, etc.) before counting them as true "dropouts." As a result traditional state-specific dropout rates were hard to compare. That's why in my update to the last post I focused exclusively on the commonly-defined NCES dropout tables. You may quibble with their definition, but it is consistent and applied the same across different states. As an aside, reader Dr. William Borland (Principal Research Engineer, Georgia Institute of Technology, lah-tee-dah) points out that 2010 state-specific public high school dropout rates are now available (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_113.asp)- and bolster my case.
2010 Public High School Event Dropout Rates
White students: Wisconsin 1.4%, Texas 1.8% (national average 2.8%)
Black students: Texas 6.3%, Wisconsin 7.8% (national average 6.7%)
Hispanic students: Texas 5.3%, Wisconsin 5.4% (national average 6.0%)
While no dropout event is good, Texas is hardly the outlier national shame claimed by Krugman. In fact, it has below national average dropout rates for all 3 ethnic groups considered, consistently in both 2007 and 2010 measures. Among white students, Wisconsin had the second lowest state event dropout rate (NJ #1), where Texas was tied for 7th. Among black students, Wisconsin was #39, Texas tied for #24. Among Hispanic students, Wisconsin was tied for #21, Texas was tied for #17.
Again these are based on a one-year calendar, based on continued enrollment from one October to the next. I will note there is a difference in kind between the NCES definition of "event dropout rate" (leaving school during a given year) and "graduation rate" (a common class cohort from freshman year to senior year). Using the common NCES definition for the 2007-8 public school senior class, Texas had a 73.1% graduation rate, where Wisconsin's was 89.6%. (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/2011012.pdf)
So Wisconsin ranked #1 on the average graduation rate measure, where Texas came in #35. Not great for Texas, but I would note this overall number does not control for ethnicity (I have been unable to find the relevant graduation rate breakdown). As an aside I would also note that even without such controls, Texas still outranks lavishly unionized California and NY. The curious thing here is the seeming parodox between event dropout rates and graduation rates. Even with compounding and taking into account population demographics, the overall graduation rate gap between Texas and Wisconsin seems much larger that what would be suggested by the year-to-year event dropout rate (remember, both are based on NCES standard definitions). My hunch - and it's just a hunch - is that the effect of family mobility is at play here. In order to track dropout rates, researchers have to track enrollment status of individual students over time. This also involves issues of privacy, and/or losing track of students when they move. Texas is a key entry point for immigrants from Mexico and Central America, many of whom later move on to other U.S. states. Once an immigrant student enters the Texas public school system, it is one thing to track their enrollment status from year to year; it is another thing to track their enrollment status from freshman to senior year, especially if they have moved with their family to, say, Nebraska. It's unclear to what degree this plays a role in Texas' dropout vs. graduation rates, but if it does the shorter-period event dropout rates are a superior measure of true student retention.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 10:48 AM
So you know that they don't have whats necessasary to learn? You know where the money was cut? It wasn't going to pensions and unions like in Ohio? You are making a ton of assumptions.....

Are you saying they do? Did you see the graduation rates?

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 10:50 AM
, Texas had a 73.1% graduation rate, where Wisconsin's was 89.6%.
So Wisconsin ranked #1 on the average graduation rate measure, where Texas came in #35.

35/50 states, and they are taking away $4 billion dollars? Not good in my book.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 10:55 AM
Are you saying they do? Did you see the graduation rates?
No, I'm not saying there may not be a problem. But You need to evaluate with more then a stat from Paul Krugman types....

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 10:59 AM
35/50 states, and they are taking away $4 billion dollars? Not good in my book.
So you think 4 billion would fix that? There are larger issues at work here. Maybe the family could help with that. Maybe the statistics don't take alot of things into account.
I'm not against money for schools, there just needs to be total transparency to where that money is going. We have had several issues here in my area of lies and abuse of funds for schools. I'm done with the threats and pleas.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 10:59 AM
No, I'm not saying there may not be a problem. But You need to evaluate with more then a stat from Paul Krugman types....

A stat is a stat in my book...

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 11:00 AM
A stat is a stat in my book...
You can skew them pretty badly which Krugman does all the time.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 11:01 AM
So you think 4 billion would fix that? There are larger issues at work here. Maybe the family could help with that. Maybe the statistics don't take alot of things into account.
I'm not against money for schools, there just needs to be total transparency to where that money is going. We have had several issues here in my area of lies and abuse of funds for schools. I'm done with the threats and pleas.

Many parents dont have HS diplomas.

pghin08
08-17-2011, 11:02 AM
You can skew them pretty badly which Krugman does all the time.

he's referencing more the "pushout" rate than dropout rate. one of the things no child left behind did was encourage schools to "push out" their lower performing students and tell them to just get GED's rather than lower the median test score of the school.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 11:02 AM
Many parents dont have HS diplomas.
Lol, where's that "stat".:winking0071:

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 11:02 AM
You can skew them pretty badly which Krugman does all the time.

Can you find me the same stat that proves Krugman wrong, then?

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 11:03 AM
Lol, where's that "stat".:winking0071:

:sign0020::sign0020::sign0020: Did you even read the article?!


It ranks first in adults without high school diplomas.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 11:21 AM
he's referencing more the "pushout" rate than dropout rate. one of the things no child left behind did was encourage schools to "push out" their lower performing students and tell them to just get GED's rather than lower the median test score of the school.
Where did he state that? I didn't see any reference.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 11:22 AM
Can you find me the same stat that proves Krugman wrong, then?
The article I linked showed a different picture. Krugman just uses a small part of the argument usually.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 11:23 AM
:sign0020::sign0020::sign0020: Did you even read the article?!
Again, how is that stat determined?

pghin08
08-17-2011, 11:25 AM
Where did he state that? I didn't see any reference.

He didn't state that directly, he just defined it without using the term.

texansrangerfan73
08-17-2011, 11:34 AM
I would imagine that the huge immigrant issue would have alot to do with everything you just listed.

There it is right there, I just wasn't gonna say it cause then I would be labeled a racist! I imagine the all the minimum wage jobs are because Texas is the second biggest state, (area not population wise) which means we have more fast food, more lower end jobs & of course we'd have more people without medical insurance.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 11:58 AM
Again, how is that stat determined?

What do you mean? Adults without high school diplomas..... That's a pretty easy stat to calculate.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 01:44 PM
What do you mean? Adults without high school diplomas..... That's a pretty easy stat to calculate.
I'm asking are they including the zillions of mexicans that come over in that stat?

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 01:57 PM
I'm asking are they including the zillions of mexicans that come over in that stat?

They are adults, aren't they? Yes, they are included.

So instead of taking billions of dollars away from education (Texas education is already low quality), shouldn't you ADD more money to work to educate your state?

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 02:06 PM
They are adults, aren't they? Yes, they are included.

So instead of taking billions of dollars away from education (Texas education is already low quality), shouldn't you ADD more money to work to educate your state?
I'm not sure Texas education is so "low quality". Lets see how they stack up to Wisconsin.
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/longhorns-17-badgers-1.html

So if illegals/immigrants are included then that may skew the stats I would argue.

As far as the money is concerned, you are telling me that education is all tied to more money? That the funding they get dictates the education? We just need to keep pouring money in everywhere and it will solve all of our problems?

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 02:22 PM
I'm not sure Texas education is so "low quality". Lets see how they stack up to Wisconsin.
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/longhorns-17-badgers-1.html

So if illegals/immigrants are included then that may skew the stats I would argue.

As far as the money is concerned, you are telling me that education is all tied to more money? That the funding they get dictates the education? We just need to keep pouring money in everywhere and it will solve all of our problems?

From the article you posted:


And in low-tax, low-spending Texas, the kids are not all right. The high school graduation rate, at just 61.3 percent, puts Texas 43rd out of 50 in state rankings.

I'd say that is pretty low quality.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 02:27 PM
From the article you posted:



I'd say that is pretty low quality.
Again, Paul Krugman stats.....Believe what you will. I have no doubt there would be some strain on the education/jobs ect when a large chunk of your population is illegal/immigrants. But it's not the way you all are depicting per the stats I read when you take alot of things into account.

pghin08
08-17-2011, 02:35 PM
Again, Paul Krugman stats.....Believe what you will. I have no doubt there would be some strain on the education/jobs ect when a large chunk of your population is illegal/immigrants. But it's not the way you all are depicting per the stats I read when you take alot of things into account.

I have to ask, if this were a Democratic governor, would you be defending him like this?

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 02:53 PM
I have to ask, if this were a Democratic governor, would you be defending him like this?
I'm not really trying to defend perry as much as I am about the info being put out there. I don't care who would be in office. Point is, the article doesn't tell the whole story IMO. If a democratic state had the same stats I'd do the same. Conversly California has been pretty bad with some of the same issues. They've had a "repub" gov for a few years.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 02:57 PM
There it is right there, I just wasn't gonna say it cause then I would be labeled a racist! I imagine the all the minimum wage jobs are because Texas is the second biggest state, (area not population wise) which means we have more fast food, more lower end jobs & of course we'd have more people without medical insurance.
I've been labeled that a thousand times by a few on here. No big deal because they are uneducated and ignorant. Typical ploy from the left. When you can't hold your own in a debate, just yell racism. It kinda makes sense when you think about it a bit instead of always pulling the race card..

pghin08
08-17-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm not really trying to defend perry as much as I am about the info being put out there. I don't care who would be in office. Point is, the article doesn't tell the whole story IMO. If a democratic state had the same stats I'd do the same. Conversly California has been pretty bad with some of the same issues. They've had a "repub" gov for a few years.

California's unreal backwards-ness came long before The Terminator.

sanfran22
08-17-2011, 03:10 PM
California's unreal backwards-ness came long before The Terminator.
It did for sure. They even put the clown back in that did alot of damage. But Ahhhnold didn't do anything to help.

texansrangerfan73
08-17-2011, 03:13 PM
Typical ploy from the left. When you can't hold your own in a debate, just yell racism. It kinda makes sense when you think about it a bit instead of always pulling the race card

This is so very true & if we like guns & our constitution then we are labeled right-wing extremists. But if we aren't allowed to defend ourselves from a tyrannical Ferderal Government then who would do it, certainly not their own stormtroopers!!

tutall
08-17-2011, 07:15 PM
How are you going to get better tools to learn? Hope that someone donates it?

Im not sure you quite realize the amount of waste in a school corp... Look into the number sometime on what percent of school funding goes to each kid and it is somewhat amazing.... Cut the extras and leave the funding for the kids... there is a reason a lot of school board members stay busy meeting with sales people all day.

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 07:17 PM
Im not sure you quite realize the amount of waste in a school corp... Look into the number sometime on what percent of school funding goes to each kid and it is somewhat amazing.... Cut the extras and leave the funding for the kids... there is a reason a lot of school board members stay busy meeting with sales people all day.

I'm not sure what you mean by "goes to each kid".

tutall
08-17-2011, 08:07 PM
what percentage of the money that is spent on education is spent on the kids and how much is spent on administration costs etc....

andrewhoya
08-17-2011, 08:21 PM
what percentage of the money that is spent on education is spent on the kids and how much is spent on administration costs etc....

That's what I assumed, but wanted to confirm.

That percentage varies from county to county in every state.

In the county I live in, the 2011 education budget was $ 462,831,170, and $2,088,360 goes to Student Expenditures. This number does not include the tools used for learning, such as Promethean Boards, Computers, textbooks, and other various methods of learning. After all of the "tools" and other daily expenses towards the kids, the county spends 13% on the kids. The other 87% goes towards costs such as land, salaries, heating, cooling, water, maintenance, bus supplies (busses, gas, etc), etc.