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View Full Version : Perry Bachmann, Romney, Santorum the biots come out



theonedru
08-26-2011, 03:24 PM
No room to hate against those you represent or want to, you either represent all equally or none at all

Perry, Bachmann, Romney and Rick Santorum signs pledge on anti-gay marriage amendment

http://news.yahoo.com/perry-signs-pledge-anti-gay-marriage-amendment-161046437.html

Perry and others need to quit trying to force their discriminatory beliefs on all of us, this is just another reason why this man cannot run America. ( or any of these others listed)

mrveggieman
08-26-2011, 03:56 PM
Even though I believe that homosexuality is morally wrong what these right wingers are tyring to do is extremely dangerous. If want they are trying to do comes to pass it sets a dangerous precedent. Never before in the history of our contry has a constitutional amendment been used to take away the rights of people. If they start writing in amendments to the constitution to take away the rights of gays where do they stop?


"The smallest minority on earth is the individual.
Those who deny individual rights cannot
claim to be defenders of minorities."
- Ayn Rand

REMEMBER?
"First They Came for the Jews"
By Pastor Niemoller

http://www.rkdn.org/images/harrass.jpg
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

theonedru
08-26-2011, 03:57 PM
Why do you think its morally wrong?

mrveggieman
08-26-2011, 04:02 PM
Why do you think its morally wrong?

My faith teaches that homosexuality is morally wrong. However the laws of our country protect my right to practice my faith as well as the rights of one not to be forced to practice my or any other faith that they chose not to. If I do not support and defend the right of another consenting adult to live their life as they see fit then who is going to support and defend my right to live as I see fit?

theonedru
08-26-2011, 04:05 PM
My faith teaches that homosexuality is morally wrong. However the laws of our country protect my right to practice my faith as well as the rights of one not to be forced to practice my or any other faith that they chose not to. If I do not support and defend the right of another consenting adult to live their life as they see fit then who is going to support and defend my right to live as I see fit?

So your faith teacher promotes bigotry... Is bigotry itself not against your religious beliefs?

mrveggieman
08-26-2011, 04:13 PM
So your faith teacher promotes bigotry... Is bigotry itself not against your religious beliefs?


Nice one. :winking0071: We are taught to hate the sin but love the sinner.

gatorboymike
08-26-2011, 04:25 PM
How does that make you any different from Perry, Bachmann, Santorum and the rest?

theonedru
08-26-2011, 04:32 PM
Nice one. :winking0071: We are taught to hate the sin but love the sinner.

I am still confused, why is it a sin in your eyes? Why not just accept them as humans without attaching any negative tags to their lifestyle as you do?

andrewhoya
08-26-2011, 05:23 PM
I really do not understand why anybody supports these fools.

ensbergcollector
08-26-2011, 06:21 PM
I am still confused, why is it a sin in your eyes? Why not just accept them as humans without attaching any negative tags to their lifestyle as you do?

as much as you would like to, you don't get to decide the moral code for the world. Anyone who disagrees with you on moral issues is declared a bigot, judgmental, etc.
Just because i think something is immoral doesn't mean I don't accept someone as human. I understand your constant need to attack anyone who opposes gay marriage but your language goes too far. I think drinking to the point of being drunk is a sin, but that doesn't mean I think anyone who gets drunk isn't a human.

I don't always understand where an atheist is coming from. That doesn't make their opinion automatically wrong just because I disagree with it. Yet you make it very clear that anyone who disagrees with you on any homosexual issue is wrong.

habsheaven
08-26-2011, 06:39 PM
I think you are all missing the really scary part of this growing trend. Here's what scares me (okay, it really doesn't .. I am Canadian afterall). The lobbyists are getting so powerful now that they are convincing potential candidates to commit to a variety of different things (pledges) before they are even elected. I'm all for candidates making campaign promises and then being elected and "trying" to fulfill them, but I want no part of a candidate that "pledges" they are going to do something come Hell or high water when elected.

gatorboymike
08-26-2011, 07:49 PM
as much as you would like to, you don't get to decide the moral code for the world. Anyone who disagrees with you on moral issues is declared a bigot, judgmental, etc.

Oh, the irony. In the very thread discussing people who think they DO get to decide the moral code for the world. I mean, isn't that the whole point of signing the thing they signed? And anyone who disagrees with them is a sinner, and a communist, and a terrorist, and a tree-hugging hippie, and a radical feminist, and a...I can go on for like 700 pages with the list of things conservative Christians call people who disagree with them on moral issues.


Just because i think something is immoral doesn't mean I don't accept someone as human. I understand your constant need to attack anyone who opposes gay marriage but your language goes too far. I think drinking to the point of being drunk is a sin, but that doesn't mean I think anyone who gets drunk isn't a human.

I don't buy that. In my experience, "love the sinner, hate the sin" is code for "hate the person and treat them like garbage." Christians use that line as an excuse to treat the sinner like they were the sin personified. You know, the same way they use the line "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims" specifically for the purpose of treating all Muslims like terrorists.


I don't always understand where an atheist is coming from. That doesn't make their opinion automatically wrong just because I disagree with it. Yet you make it very clear that anyone who disagrees with you on any homosexual issue is wrong.

Oh you don't do that, do you? Are you sure? Because I've seen your comrades in arms do that more times than I can count. They're perfectly happy to tell us that if we disagree with them, we're wrong, because their opinion is God's opinion and God is always right. Then they're perfectly happy to tell us that we're not just wrong, but also evil and fully deserving of an eternity of incomprehensible agony and torture. Say what you will about atheists' point of view, at least we don't resort to that kind of manipulation and threat.

theonedru
08-26-2011, 09:00 PM
Like I said these people are no longer in it for the American people, they are in it for themselves as this shows. and the question being anything short of a revolution (which this country is in dire need of) what can we do to make these people understand we will no longer take this garbage they shove down their throats.

theonedru
08-26-2011, 09:03 PM
I think you are all missing the really scary part of this growing trend. Here's what scares me (okay, it really doesn't .. I am Canadian afterall). The lobbyists are getting so powerful now that they are convincing potential candidates to commit to a variety of different things (pledges) before they are even elected. I'm all for candidates making campaign promises and then being elected and "trying" to fulfill them, but I want no part of a candidate that "pledges" they are going to do something come Hell or high water when elected.

he lobbyists are getting so powerful now that they are convincing potential candidates to commit to a variety of different things (pledges) before they are even elected.

In the normal world this is called bribery and would end up with someone getting a lengthy prison sentence

ensbergcollector
08-26-2011, 09:21 PM
Oh, the irony. In the very thread discussing people who think they DO get to decide the moral code for the world. I mean, isn't that the whole point of signing the thing they signed? And anyone who disagrees with them is a sinner, and a communist, and a terrorist, and a tree-hugging hippie, and a radical feminist, and a...I can go on for like 700 pages with the list of things conservative Christians call people who disagree with them on moral issues.



I don't buy that. In my experience, "love the sinner, hate the sin" is code for "hate the person and treat them like garbage." Christians use that line as an excuse to treat the sinner like they were the sin personified. You know, the same way they use the line "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims" specifically for the purpose of treating all Muslims like terrorists.



Oh you don't do that, do you? Are you sure? Because I've seen your comrades in arms do that more times than I can count. They're perfectly happy to tell us that if we disagree with them, we're wrong, because their opinion is God's opinion and God is always right. Then they're perfectly happy to tell us that we're not just wrong, but also evil and fully deserving of an eternity of incomprehensible agony and torture. Say what you will about atheists' point of view, at least we don't resort to that kind of manipulation and threat.

You like to talk in sweeping generalities about christians because you can't find a single example in the years I have been posting here that group me in with the venom you spew. So, keep wearing your tin foil hat and hiding from the "big bad christians" who are coming to get you my friend.

ensbergcollector
08-26-2011, 09:23 PM
Like I said these people are no longer in it for the American people, they are in it for themselves as this shows. and the question being anything short of a revolution (which this country is in dire need of) what can we do to make these people understand we will no longer take this garbage they shove down their throats.

one slight problem. in a vast majority of votes on the gay marriage issue, the american people have voted against it. So please don't act like this is an agenda put forth by a select few who are trying to shove it down the throats of the american people.

theonedru
08-26-2011, 09:40 PM
one slight problem. in a vast majority of votes on the gay marriage issue, the american people have voted against it. So please don't act like this is an agenda put forth by a select few who are trying to shove it down the throats of the american people.

Because they deserve to be treated equally with all the exact same rights and freedoms as everyone else. That is not asking to much or overstepping any boundaries, unlike these people with hate in their heart who think that there need to be a caste system in America.

duane1969
08-26-2011, 09:40 PM
as much as you would like to, you don't get to decide the moral code for the world. Anyone who disagrees with you on moral issues is declared a bigot, judgmental, etc.
Just because i think something is immoral doesn't mean I don't accept someone as human. I understand your constant need to attack anyone who opposes gay marriage but your language goes too far. I think drinking to the point of being drunk is a sin, but that doesn't mean I think anyone who gets drunk isn't a human.

I don't always understand where an atheist is coming from. That doesn't make their opinion automatically wrong just because I disagree with it. Yet you make it very clear that anyone who disagrees with you on any homosexual issue is wrong.

You should become a left-wing liberal. Then you can have your own Ivory Tower to sit in and claim to always be right and be rude and condescending to everyone who disagrees you.

ensbergcollector
08-26-2011, 09:42 PM
Because they deserve to be treated equally with all the exact same rights and freedoms as everyone else. That is not asking to much or overstepping any boundaries, unlike these people with hate in their heart who think that there need to be a caste system in America.

i wasn't even entering the debate about gay marriage. I was simply talking about your presenting it like this very small minority is trying to pass this law when in fact it is very clear that the majority of americans agree with these politicians.

theonedru
08-26-2011, 09:44 PM
i wasn't even entering the debate about gay marriage. I was simply talking about your presenting it like this very small minority is trying to pass this law when in fact it is very clear that the majority of americans agree with these politicians.

Like they agrees with slavery, deny women equal rights, banning interracial marriage, denying minorities equality throughout various times in American history. Just because the majority agreed with these did that make them ok?

ensbergcollector
08-26-2011, 09:50 PM
Like they agrees with slavery, deny women equal rights, banning interracial marriage, denying minorities equality throughout various times in American history. Just because the majority agreed with these did that make them ok?

nope, and I never said it did.

duane1969
08-26-2011, 09:58 PM
Like they agrees with slavery, deny women equal rights, banning interracial marriage, denying minorities equality throughout various times in American history. Just because the majority agreed with these did that make them ok?

Sorry, I am finding it hard to see where slavery and women's rights fall into the same category as gay marriage. Slaves were hung, beaten and bought and sold like cattle, women were little more than property in most parts of the world...gays don't get to have a piece of paper that says they are married or get Fed government benefits. Big difference.

theonedru
08-26-2011, 11:00 PM
Sorry, I am finding it hard to see where slavery and women's rights fall into the same category as gay marriage. Slaves were hung, beaten and bought and sold like cattle, women were little more than property in most parts of the world...gays don't get to have a piece of paper that says they are married or get Fed government benefits. Big difference.

its all about equality, treating everyone the same. whats so wrong with that. It's sad we live in a society where people believe otherwise. Show me in all these constitutions and bill of rights or the like where it states except for gays... That's right it doesn't.

marekschwarz33
08-26-2011, 11:12 PM
Republicans claim to want small government and yet most want government involved in marriage. That doesn't seem like small government to me... I would rather have minimal government involvement. Politicians don't need to be involved in a private matter such as marriage.

duane1969
08-27-2011, 01:01 PM
As far as I am.concerned the argument is over terminology. If it is called gay union then nobody seems to care. Add the word marriage and suddenly you have a crisis.

theonedru
08-27-2011, 01:44 PM
As far as I am.concerned the argument is over terminology. If it is called gay union then nobody seems to care. Add the word marriage and suddenly you have a crisis.

1.Why don't you think they have the right to be " married". Why not just ban and null all marriages and everyone enter into civil unions to make it equal to all.

*censored*
08-27-2011, 01:55 PM
Why not just ban and null all marriages and everyone enter into civil unions to make it equal to all.

That's what I'd like to see. Call them ALL "civil unions" when dealing with government licensing and contracts, and leave the term "marriage" to individuals and their churches.

Waiting for the social conservatives to voice a reason why this wouldn't work...

ensbergcollector
08-27-2011, 02:31 PM
That's what I'd like to see. Call them ALL "civil unions" when dealing with government licensing and contracts, and leave the term "marriage" to individuals and their churches.

Waiting for the social conservatives to voice a reason why this wouldn't work...

that's the problem. a good percentage of social conservatives would be completely fine with this. But everyone on the side of "equal rights" acts like it is only the equal rights they are worried about when in reality they want to be able to use the term marriage.