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CavFanatic31
09-07-2011, 08:18 PM
What are your thoughts on it? Do you believe that people within our nation were a part of the terrorist attack?

INTIMADATOR2007
09-07-2011, 08:32 PM
Absolutley not , But there are some Bush haters here that will say he remotely guided all planes to there destination ..lol..

habsheaven
09-07-2011, 08:35 PM
In government? No. Unknown terrorist cells? Yes.

duane1969
09-07-2011, 08:45 PM
Playing devil's advocate.

I find it interesting that the attack happened the day after Rumsfeld revealed that there was $2 trillion in Pentagon funding that was missing. The 9/11 attacks turned that bit of news into a page 3 blurb that everyone ignored. The timing is either uncanny or unbelievable.

Other than that I really haven't heard anything credible.

CavFanatic31
09-07-2011, 08:48 PM
Playing devil's advocate.

I find it interesting that the attack happened the day after Rumsfeld revealed that there was $2 trillion in Pentagon funding that was missing. The 9/11 attacks turned that bit of news into a page 3 blurb that everyone ignored. The timing is either uncanny or unbelievable.

Other than that I really haven't heard anything credible.

I haven't heard that one yet, but have heard others. One of the most common things I here is the placement of bombs within the two towers, which caused the collapse of them. There was also a fire a few buildings over from the two towers, that had grown out of control and was called for demolition because the fire could not be put out. The building was made of a steel frame, just like the two towers. Explosives were placed in the building for its destruction. After both buildings collapsed, the "footprint" left being for both buildings looked very similar, and there were remnants of steel with the same temperature after all buildings' destructions. I have heard a few others, and I'm not too sure about what really happened to be honest...

Star_Cards
09-07-2011, 10:41 PM
I watched two documentaries on 9/11 conspiracies a few months ago. They were interesting to watch and they had some parts where I could see people questioning, but I don't believe the U.S. government had any hand in the attacks or why the towers fell.

A few of the things that were curious was the falling of one of the smaller world trade center building dropping like it was imploded. It was also weird that there are still no photos or videos of the plane that hit the pentagon.

theonedru
09-08-2011, 12:47 AM
We have to remember the gov't places very little in the value of a human life whether American or not. People often forget that

Almost daily the 9/11 tragedies have been used by the Government to jam down our throats as a constant reminder that we need to be complacent or the terrorists will get us, forget wasting $ on tributes or any stupid thing like that, just let the dead lay in peace.

Hilfiger1975
09-08-2011, 12:52 AM
What are your thoughts on it? Do you believe that people within our nation were a part of the terrorist attack?
-gasp-

NEVER!

JFK ring a bell?

mrveggieman
09-08-2011, 09:47 AM
Google Alex Jones videos.

Star_Cards
09-08-2011, 10:22 AM
As curious as some of these theories are I'm more curious as to why it's been 10 years and there's nothing of any substance that has been rebuilt at ground zero.

pghin08
09-08-2011, 10:57 AM
I've spent more time studying and researching 9/11 than I have any other event in American history. I've come to 2 conclusions:

1. Conspiracy theories shouldn't be dismissed.

Personally, I don't think 9/11 was an inside job. However, the abundance of different theories DO house some truths, and just as importantly, pose legitimate questions that we don't have answers to. There were many things that happened on 9/11 that were pushed to the background (WTC 7, the truckload of explosives found on the George Washington Bridge, etc). Whether you believe in them or not, conspiracy theories are often helpful to research. There are things that I still don't rightly know the answer to, the most identifiable (in the past few years) example being why WTC 7 collapsed. I read the NIST report in 2008, and it's main claim was that the uncontrolled fires simply weakened the building to the point where it couldn't handle it, and buckled. This still makes little sense to me. I understand that the FDNY was nearly incapacitated by this point, but NIST even admitted that diesel fuel and the damage from WTC 1 & 2 debris didn't play a role in the collapse. A high rise building, with the damage and fires primarily on one side collapsing after an 8 hour fire? Unparalleled in history. But truly, it makes little sense in the realm of conspiracy. Because of some SEC investigations, they blow up the building? Doubtful.


2. The most fundamental question.

When deciding whether or not you feel as if 9/11 was an inside job, you're truly deciding the answer to this question:

Is the government totally incompetent, or is it hyper-competent?

To believe in a 9/11 conspiracy, you have to believe that the government is capable of carrying out the attacks themselves, and then the far more difficult cover-up. I studied government in my college years, and I can't at all fathom that they would be able to do such a masterful job. This is where the conspiracy people lose me. Capable of bringing down the WTC, and then successfully lying about it? Did you see how hard it was just to RAISE THE DEBT CEILING? Come on.

I'm certainly not exonerating the government. I'm of the school that the government was incompetent on this. There is far more evidence indicating that people within the FBI, CIA and Defense department were telling both Clinton and Bush, on a constant basis, that these attacks were imminent, than there is evidence that they actually went through with the plot itself. There were TONS of warning signs, and tons of government officials that ignored them (Condi Rice deserves particular mention here, as someone close to the situation that consistently ignored those under her who were warning her about it). There were people within the government who deserve credit, too. Tons of our appointed officials did there jobs, but were simply held up by those above them. Counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke was adamant about it, and did his best to raise flags to both Clinton and Bush, but was duly ignored. Ironically, he's the only official I've ever heard apologize about 9/11, but one of the least culpable.


To summarize, 9/11 was pulled off by 19 hijackers, guided by the likes of Osama bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, Ramzi bin-al Shibh and others. There are many unanswered questions about the attacks themselves, but one of them should not be whether or not the U.S. government played an active role. They are guilty of gross negligence, but no more.

pghin08
09-08-2011, 10:59 AM
As curious as some of these theories are I'm more curious as to why it's been 10 years and there's nothing of any substance that has been rebuilt at ground zero.

Not true. Watch "Rising-Rebuilding Ground Zero" on Discovery. They're actually making tremendous progress.

pghin08
09-08-2011, 12:36 PM
-gasp-

NEVER!

JFK ring a bell?

9/11 is very different.

Star_Cards
09-08-2011, 02:54 PM
Not true. Watch "Rising-Rebuilding Ground Zero" on Discovery. They're actually making tremendous progress.

I guess I need to watch it. I just have seen what has been built in much less than 10 years and they are not even coming close to this. I guess a lot of that could be from legal issues that they had and the fact that they had to clear debris. I'll check out the documentary and educate myself.

CavFanatic31
09-08-2011, 05:47 PM
Many families wanted to keep it as it is as a memorial I believe...

Plus you can't just come up with the architecture of a skyscraper and build it within a year.

Hilfiger1975
09-08-2011, 05:50 PM
9/11 is very different.

Government neglect...very much the same...

gatorboymike
09-08-2011, 05:57 PM
Conspiracy theories are nonsense.

That being said, were there people in government who watched the attacks happen, and thought to themselves, "This is the greatest thing that could ever happen. Now we can do whatever we want!"? Oh yes.

Hilfiger1975
09-08-2011, 06:05 PM
Conspiracy theories are nonsense.

That being said, were there people in government who watched the attacks happen, and thought to themselves, "This is the greatest thing that could ever happen. Now we can do whatever we want!"? Oh yes.

The Government lies it's a fact...

INTIMADATOR2007
09-08-2011, 06:10 PM
Google Alex Jones videos.
Why Google an Idiot ?

Hilfiger1975
09-08-2011, 06:10 PM
Why Google an Idiot ?

When you can use a mirror instead? :winking0071:

gatorboymike
09-08-2011, 06:15 PM
Why Google an Idiot ?

I thought all you Tea Party, "Take Uhmerikuh Back fer Jaysus" types ate, drank, breathed and slept Alex Jones?

pghin08
09-08-2011, 07:43 PM
Government neglect...very much the same...

Government neglect? To imply that government neglect killed JFK is to believe that he was killed by Castro (unlikely), the mafia or Khruschev (EXTREMELY unlikely--he spent days in the Kremlin weeping and mourning for Kennedy, even saying "they could have saved the world together"). If the government story holds, and it was Lee Harvey Oswald alone, there is no government neglect. And in regards to the most likely conspiracy scenario (Mafia), it could have easily been withheld from government agencies.

9/11, in that regard, isn't even close. We KNOW how much the government blew it.

pghin08
09-08-2011, 07:44 PM
I thought all you Tea Party, "Take Uhmerikuh Back fer Jaysus" types ate, drank, breathed and slept Alex Jones?

Actually, Jones seems to bridge a gap. He's beloved by both the extreme right and extreme left.

sanfran22
09-08-2011, 08:02 PM
When you can use a mirror instead? :winking0071:
Really? Was that necessary? I guess you may need to check your mirror as well then.:rolleyes:

duwal
09-08-2011, 09:36 PM
When you can use a mirror instead? :winking0071:



oh...SNAP!
http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/funny-celebrity-pictures-do-you-want-me-to-use-my-pimp-hand.jpg

Danols1
09-08-2011, 09:40 PM
Plus you can't just come up with the architecture of a skyscraper and build it within a year

yet the dang yankees got a new stad really ?

andrewhoya
09-08-2011, 09:42 PM
My .02....

If this was carried out by the government, hundreds of people would have had to know about it. Odds are, at least ONE of those people would have spilled the beans in the past ten years if he/she was at someone or what not.

andrewhoya
09-08-2011, 09:43 PM
It was also weird that there are still no photos or videos of the plane that hit the pentagon.

There are stills. I'll try to find them.

andrewhoya
09-08-2011, 09:47 PM
There are stills. I'll try to find them.

2 "videos" here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_77#cite_note-jw-31

tutall
09-08-2011, 09:48 PM
As far as the conspiracy theory's go I have watched a ton on them.. Fact of the matter is we have never tested the same steel that was inthe world trade center under those conditions... Been standing for quite some time, been ran into fullspeed my a jet, burned under intense flames on huge areas of mass for a long time. As said higherup, I find it impossible to believe an operation that would have had to been planned by at minimum hundreds of people, would go this long without anything being said by anyone. As far as linking it to JFK, that could be a coverup by 4 people which is a lot easier to keep under the radar than flying 4 planes into buildings in a major metro area

Hilfiger1975
09-08-2011, 11:16 PM
Government neglect? To imply that government neglect killed JFK is to believe that he was killed by Castro (unlikely), the mafia or Khruschev (EXTREMELY unlikely--he spent days in the Kremlin weeping and mourning for Kennedy, even saying "they could have saved the world together"). If the government story holds, and it was Lee Harvey Oswald alone, there is no government neglect. And in regards to the most likely conspiracy scenario (Mafia), it could have easily been withheld from government agencies.

9/11, in that regard, isn't even close. We KNOW how much the government blew it.

There is rules and regulations for Presidents. Sadly, 75% of those was broken in Dallas. Read your history about how the "security" in Dallas was far below par.

pghin08
09-08-2011, 11:31 PM
There is rules and regulations for Presidents. Sadly, 75% of those was broken in Dallas. Read your history about how the "security" in Dallas was far below par.

Trust me, I know my history. It was Kennedy's preference to ride with the top down, and most of the security issues around his entire visit to Dallas had to do with a stretched and grossly overworked (and understaffed) secret service. It is ABSOLUTELY no comparison with the MASSIVE intelligence gaffes prior to 9/11. I mean not even close.

And as an aside, the majority of the current rules and regulations for Presidential security were enacted post-Kennedy.

Hilfiger1975
09-08-2011, 11:36 PM
Trust me, I know my history. It was Kennedy's preference to ride with the top down, and most of the security issues around his entire visit to Dallas had to do with a stretched and grossly overworked (and understaffed) secret service. It is ABSOLUTELY no comparison with the MASSIVE intelligence gaffes prior to 9/11. I mean not even close.

And as an aside, the majority of the current rules and regulations for Presidential security were enacted post-Kennedy.

Whatever makes you sleep at night. So on your comparison chart how does a President dying rank?

No better yet. How about the Government lying to America about chemicals used in Desert Storm and our soldiers being sick for years and the Government lying about it?

Or what about how the Government treated out Veterans from previous wars?

Bottom line is that the Government lies and the "security" in Dallas was way under par for that day. And i'm not talking about the top being down either. I'm talking about how the car slowed down around a turn which is was not suppose to. I'm talking about all the windows opened in that building and i'm also talking about how the secret service was acting the night before the assassination. Like i said before i know my history to and i've done research and seen the flaws the Government and how they conviently was unmanned as you say that day. Did you hear how the autosy was ran too?

BTW, how is it that they lost the Presidents brain? Or how they have TWO sets of autopsy pictures? (government)

Like i said before there is a VERY big comparison and MORE was hidden that day then even you or I can imagine. So please don't tell me about your comparison chart because it means nothing...there is no comparison it all equals the same...the Government lying to the American people..

Hilfiger1975
09-08-2011, 11:47 PM
Conspiracy theories are nonsense.

That being said, were there people in government who watched the attacks happen, and thought to themselves, "This is the greatest thing that could ever happen. Now we can do whatever we want!"? Oh yes.

I think you need to read about some America history, because you sound like your walking with blinders on...

pghin08
09-08-2011, 11:56 PM
Whatever makes you sleep at night. So on your comparison chart how does a President dying rank?

No better yet. How about the Government lying to America about chemicals used in Desert Storm and our soldiers being sick for years and the Government lying about it?

Or what about how the Government treated out Veterans from previous wars?

Bottom line is that the Government lies and the "security" in Dallas was way under par for that day. And i'm not talking about the top being down either. I'm talking about how the car slowed down around a turn which is was not suppose to. I'm talking about all the windows opened in that building and i'm also talking about how the secret service was acting the night before the assassination. Like i said before i know my history to and i've done research and seen the flaws the Government and how they conviently was unmanned as you say that day. Did you hear how the autosy was ran too?

BTW, how is it that they lost the Presidents brain? Or how they have TWO sets of autopsy pictures? (government)

Like i said before there is a VERY big comparison and MORE was hidden that day then even you or I can imagine. So please don't tell me about your comparison chart because it means nothing...there is no comparison it all equals the same...the Government lying to the American people..

Again, I know all about Kennedy's autopsy. I know the people that did it had never done an autopsy before, I live in Cyril Wecht country, I've heard this ad nauseum. There were a lot of suspicious things around the JFK assassination. In fact, for as much as I've looked into it, I don't buy the government's story on it. I think it was a mafia job, and that Oswald had prior connections to Carlos Marcello.

But regardless of what I think about who killed Kennedy, the governmental failures still don't even compare. What allowed for Kennedy's death were primarily naivety and temporary lapses in judgement (security lapses happen all the time, it's just that usually it doesn't end in a leaders death).

When it comes to 9/11, it was the culmination of YEARS of intelligence failures, and a lack of interest from the post-Cold War administrations. This was hands down, the biggest security failure in American history. How anyone could even compare it to JFK is simply ludicrous.

Hilfiger1975
09-09-2011, 12:15 AM
There is no comparison it all equals the same...the Government lying to the American people..

:sign0202:

pghin08
09-09-2011, 12:23 AM
9/11 wasn't really a matter of lying to the American people. They were just idiots.

Hilfiger1975
09-09-2011, 12:23 AM
9/11 wasn't really a matter of lying to the American people. They were just idiots.

I agree FINALLY! :winking0071:

andrewhoya
09-09-2011, 07:38 AM
Trust me, I know my history. It was Kennedy's preference to ride with the top down, and most of the security issues around his entire visit to Dallas had to do with a stretched and grossly overworked (and understaffed) secret service. It is ABSOLUTELY no comparison with the MASSIVE intelligence gaffes prior to 9/11. I mean not even close.

And as an aside, the majority of the current rules and regulations for Presidential security were enacted post-Kennedy.

+1- you just can't compare the two things. Over a thousands innocent people dying compared to one person who has a chance of being assassinated every day.

*censored*
09-09-2011, 08:59 AM
There are too many unanswered questions, unused witness statements and evidence, and strange coincidences for me to believe the government's official story is the 100% correct whole entire honest truth. Far from it. I wouldn't say I'm a MIHOP conspiriologist, but for certain a LIHOP.

For the record, MIHOP = Made It Happen On Purpose, LIHOP = Let It Happen On Purpose.

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 09:53 AM
What our beloved united states gov't is a bunch of incompetent liars? Oh no I can't believe that.

pghin08
09-09-2011, 09:54 AM
There are too many unanswered questions, unused witness statements and evidence, and strange coincidences for me to believe the government's official story is the 100% correct whole entire honest truth. Far from it. I wouldn't say I'm a MIHOP conspiriologist, but for certain a LIHOP.

For the record, MIHOP = Made It Happen On Purpose, LIHOP = Let It Happen On Purpose.

I both agree and disagree. I don't think the government story is 100% correct. You're right, it's probably far from it. I still don't know why building 7 fell. I've never truly believed the pancake theory of the towers collapse (Why didn't just the tops fall off? Did the fires travel down the elevator shafts to blow up the basement/lobby? If so, why were some elevators in the towers working? If physics hold up, shouldn't it have taken longer for the building to collapse, since most floors from 75 down weren't really damaged at all? Shouldn't they have provided some sort of resistance to the falling tops?). And there are plenty more questions that to me have never been thoroughly answered.

Yet I've had trouble calling myself a LIHOP. I believe more in the inadequacy than the adequacy of those administrations. I know there was so much information out there, and there were so many people saying that this was going to happen. But I don't believe they had malicious intent, I just think they were ignorant. There are signs, I admit, of course there are. When you get incessantly warned about something, and yet do nothing about it, you lend yourself to accusations like that. I just don't know, honestly.

Star_Cards
09-09-2011, 10:32 AM
Not true. Watch "Rising-Rebuilding Ground Zero" on Discovery. They're actually making tremendous progress.

haven't seen that docu yet, but wow was I wrong. They have a lot of construction done. Wonder why I failed to catch this info.

pghin08
09-09-2011, 10:42 AM
haven't seen that docu yet, but wow was I wrong. They have a lot of construction done. Wonder why I failed to catch this info.

It's easy. They've had VERY little coverage of the work being done there. I think 99% of the general public would be really surprised.

Star_Cards
09-09-2011, 10:48 AM
I just know that when I was there in 2008 it was just a big hole. There were people working but I guess a lot of that was due to the disagreements about what should be there, etc.

pghin08
09-09-2011, 11:42 AM
I just know that when I was there in 2008 it was just a big hole. There were people working but I guess a lot of that was due to the disagreements about what should be there, etc.

Once they started working, it just flew upwards.

CavFanatic31
09-09-2011, 12:48 PM
Yes, most of the time taken for something not being rebuilt was from people having disputes over who owned the land (one person owned the lot, another the building, you had the county, city, government, etc.). Then they had to decide WHAT exactly to rebuild there.

pghin08
09-09-2011, 02:37 PM
Yes, most of the time taken for something not being rebuilt was from people having disputes over who owned the land (one person owned the lot, another the building, you had the county, city, government, etc.). Then they had to decide WHAT exactly to rebuild there.

It looks like it's going to be awesome.

Star_Cards
09-09-2011, 04:18 PM
yeah. the building looks cool and the park and fountain is awesome.

Star_Cards
09-12-2011, 10:50 AM
I still can't believe I didn't hear about all of the progress they have done at the site. I'm not a huge news watcher but I catch about 30 minutes in the morning every day. i guess everything these days are stories about politics, viral videos or celebrities.

duane1969
09-12-2011, 01:39 PM
I still can't believe I didn't hear about all of the progress they have done at the site. I'm not a huge news watcher but I catch about 30 minutes in the morning every day. i guess everything these days are stories about politics, viral videos or celebrities.

The WTC site is only news worthy if there is conflict over a mosque or something dramatic and controversial. The media doesn't have the time to waste on feelgood stories.

Every year they give out journalism awards and it is always for coverage of a war or a hurricane or something traumatic and dramatic. Nobody ever gets an award for keeping us updated on human interest stories.

Star_Cards
09-12-2011, 01:55 PM
I thought it was cool to find out that there's a tree that survived the tower collapses that's down in the park. Very symbolic.

OBOMBA
12-18-2011, 08:59 PM
no doubt bin laden was a scape goat

ensbergcollector
12-18-2011, 11:36 PM
no doubt bin laden was a scape goat

a scape goat for what? no one invented bin laden or what he did or said

Star_Cards
12-18-2011, 11:49 PM
I'm curious what he thinks he's a scapegoat for as well?

gatorboymike
12-18-2011, 11:51 PM
Why are we dragging this up? Have the Truthers come up with yet more self-serving and easily debunked nonsense?

pghin08
12-19-2011, 09:49 AM
no doubt bin laden was a scape goat

I've done my fair share of research on this stuff (I have a minor in terrorism studies, I'm so cool, I know :rolleyes:). The guy was a murderer. I consider myself a bit of a conspiracy believer (though not when it comes to 9/11), but to say he was a scape goat is wildly misinformed.

mrveggieman
12-19-2011, 09:59 AM
It would have been nice to see OBL's remains as proof of death instead of just dumping him at sea.

pghin08
12-19-2011, 10:11 AM
It would have been nice to see OBL's remains as proof of death instead of just dumping him at sea.

I totally understand why they did it that way. Obama and co. did the right thing showing the pictures to Republican Congressmen who have no reason to give Obama credit for anything (McCain, etc).

duane1969
12-19-2011, 10:19 AM
no doubt bin laden was a scape goat

If only he hadn't admitted to doing it...:rolleyes:

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/response/investigation/011213.binladen.tape.html

OBOMBA
12-19-2011, 06:09 PM
If only he hadn't admitted to doing it...:rolleyes:

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/response/investigation/011213.binladen.tape.html
well here's a few things to consider
when first asked about 9/11 osama denied any involvement and we know that ''terrorists'' brag about their attacks right?

another thing the multi billion dollar bin laden family past and present have had joint business ties with the bush family e.g. the carlyle group. not to mention george bush senior has one of the biggest oil companies in texas

the same bin laden that the US helped fund against the soviets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF6VdWjxJ1g

o yeah is this a coincidence by any chance? isnt it funny how this speech was made on 9/11/90? and isnt it funny how george bush jr was in office when this so called ''terrorist attack'' happened? and celebrated his election victory before the votes were even counted ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWBTL33MpA
just a few things to consider

tutall
12-19-2011, 06:14 PM
Do you realize how many people this would have taken to pull off? And yet 10 years later still no one is talking? There are hundreds if not thousands of holes in any theory about this

OBOMBA
12-19-2011, 06:35 PM
Do you realize how many people this would have taken to pull off? And yet 10 years later still no one is talking? There are hundreds if not thousands of holes in any theory about thiswhat i just said is proof enough. i could go on and on. people get convicted of murder on lesser evidence. even the lead attorney for the 9/11 commission came out and said 9/11 was a cover up. so yea it was an inside job. there wouldnt be all of these coincidences if it wasnt. there's a fine line between coincidence and evidence. people just want it to be etched in stone but the evidence is just too much.
yes. a bunch of Muslims are capable of highjacking a bunch of planes with box cutters and flying perfectly into the twin towers while the third tower falls exactly the same way into its footprint so perfectly as it was never hit by a plane. and no that whole fire myth has been totally debunked. yea makes sense.

tutall
12-19-2011, 06:42 PM
what i just said is proof enough. i could go on and on. people get convicted of murder on lesser evidence. even the lead attorney for the 9/11 commission came out and said 9/11 was a cover up. so yea it was an inside job. there wouldnt be all of these coincidences if it wasnt. there's a fine line between coincidence and evidence. people just want it to be etched in stone but the evidence is just too much.
yes. a bunch of Muslims are capable of highjacking a bunch of planes with box cutters and flying perfectly into the twin towers while the third tower falls exactly the same way into its footprint so perfectly as it was never hit by a plane. and no that whole fire myth has been totally debunked. yea makes sense.

so... are you saying explosives were involved in knocking down the third tower?

OBOMBA
12-19-2011, 06:55 PM
so... are you saying explosives were involved in knocking down the third tower?
i am not sure what it was, but all independent investigations into its collapse have been denied. and come on you really think all three towers are going to fall exactly the same even though only two were hit by planes? not to mention that they fell PERFECTLY into their foot print.

a report by engineers and architects saying that it was a demolition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSMEWb6FU64

tutall
12-19-2011, 07:06 PM
I dont read into what people say really... Everyone has an agenda... I am sure if I had time to look I could find another report that would be against the one you posted... While this narrator is talking he mentions it nearly impossible to freefall but even with explosives there would still be some sort of reisitance right? I mean, you cant really dissolve steel beams and concrete without some pretty massive explosions and more than a few people with agendas would have surely heard them. Fact of the matter is we have nothing to compare this too... Unless we rebuild and towers and redo the whole expirament a couple times there is no way to know.

I still contend though to pull something like this off you would have reports of someone entering the building with explosives or someone would have talked considering there would have the be quite a few people involved.

OBOMBA
12-19-2011, 07:25 PM
I dont read into what people say really... Everyone has an agenda... I am sure if I had time to look I could find another report that would be against the one you posted... While this narrator is talking he mentions it nearly impossible to freefall but even with explosives there would still be some sort of reisitance right? I mean, you cant really dissolve steel beams and concrete without some pretty massive explosions and more than a few people with agendas would have surely heard them. Fact of the matter is we have nothing to compare this too... Unless we rebuild and towers and redo the whole expirament a couple times there is no way to know.

I still contend though to pull something like this off you would have reports of someone entering the building with explosives or someone would have talked considering there would have the be quite a few people involved.
i am almost positive that you cant find an independent study that debunks this. i really dont think you can trust those big companies when it comes to things like this. anyways, the CIA FBI and ATF all had access to the buildings as they were operating within all 3 at the time. plus it's not like every explosive/destructive chemical is released to the public. off topic, but did you know that the CIA has a undetectable poison that causes heart attacks ?also a bill to give health care to first responders was denied, so they really dont care about the public!

tutall
12-19-2011, 07:36 PM
i am almost positive that you cant find an independent study that debunks this. i really dont think you can trust those big companies when it comes to things like this. anyways, the CIA FBI and ATF all had access to the buildings as they were operating within all 3 at the time. plus it's not like every explosive/destructive chemical is released to the public. off topic, but did you know that the CIA has a undetectable poison that causes heart attacks ?also a bill to give health care to first responders was denied, so they really dont care about the public!

The was rejected because of what it was attached too.... Go back and look at the bill and I cant remember exactly what it was but there were parts of it that were ridiculous and it was attached to something bigger that was a bad idea.... We discussed it on the forum if I remember right....

Also I get the CIA could have operated at night or something but we are talking a large amount of explosives.... It isnt like it was put into a building in rural Iowa... I would think if they were bussing in explosives someone would have seen it and there would have been some kind of a report on it... Is there no security or police in the area? Or were they all in on it as well?

duane1969
12-20-2011, 10:03 AM
Posting YouTube videos by self-proclaimed experts is not undeniable evidence.

For an "expert" to say that a building doesn't fall that way because of a plane flying into is baseless since there is no prior incident to base that opinion on. It is purely conjecture on his part. He can have no expert opinion because it has never happened before.

And if I want to waste some time I can put together a video that shows how aliens exist on earth right now, it won't make it true. Tying together a series of random events and claiming that they provide proof is a classic conspiracy theorist tactic. When the indivisual aspects are looked at singularly they always fall apart.

OBOMBA
12-20-2011, 05:55 PM
Posting YouTube videos by self-proclaimed experts is not undeniable evidence.

For an "expert" to say that a building doesn't fall that way because of a plane flying into is baseless since there is no prior incident to base that opinion on. It is purely conjecture on his part. He can have no expert opinion because it has never happened before.

And if I want to waste some time I can put together a video that shows how aliens exist on earth right now, it won't make it true. Tying together a series of random events and claiming that they provide proof is a classic conspiracy theorist tactic. When the indivisual aspects are looked at singularly they always fall apart.
you just mad because you got nothing. it sucks when your government lies right to your face huh? and o yeah those experts are legitimate architects and engineers. i provided a whole bunch of evidence and you have nothing to say, classic and typical sheep response. your e just the type of person who will believe anything the government tells them even after they are caught red handed time and time again. #owned

gatorboymike
12-20-2011, 06:02 PM
As if further evidence were needed that conspiracy theories are religions.

duane1969
12-20-2011, 07:21 PM
you just mad because you got nothing. it sucks when your government lies right to your face huh? and o yeah those experts are legitimate architects and engineers. i provided a whole bunch of evidence and you have nothing to say, classic and typical sheep response. your e just the type of person who will believe anything the government tells them even after they are caught red handed time and time again. #owned

An architect or engineer can not know how something will happen that has never happened before. All they have is theories. They can not be an expert on something that has never happened before.

I don't believe everything the government tells me. I am just able to think for myself and not trip over myself proclaiming some YouTube video to be the undeniable truth when it is full of holes.

duwal
12-20-2011, 09:11 PM
you just mad because you got nothing. it sucks when your government lies right to your face huh? and o yeah those experts are legitimate architects and engineers. i provided a whole bunch of evidence and you have nothing to say, classic and typical sheep response. your e just the type of person who will believe anything the government tells them even after they are caught red handed time and time again. #owned


how exactly did you own him??? You posted up videos of peoples opinions which way as heavy as anyone else's for or against. And people are not "sheep" because they disagree with you, they're just thinking more rationally :winking0071:

pghin08
12-21-2011, 09:54 AM
you just mad because you got nothing. it sucks when your government lies right to your face huh? and o yeah those experts are legitimate architects and engineers. i provided a whole bunch of evidence and you have nothing to say, classic and typical sheep response. your e just the type of person who will believe anything the government tells them even after they are caught red handed time and time again. #owned


Okay, I think I may serve to bridge some gap between you and most other people on here. I'm going to post my initial response to this thread (from some months ago), and I'm curious as to whether or not you believe that I'm a "sheep":

"I've spent more time studying and researching 9/11 than I have any other event in American history. I've come to 2 conclusions:

1. Conspiracy theories shouldn't be dismissed.

Personally, I don't think 9/11 was an inside job. However, the abundance of different theories DO house some truths, and just as importantly, pose legitimate questions that we don't have answers to. There were many things that happened on 9/11 that were pushed to the background (WTC 7, the truckload of explosives found on the George Washington Bridge, etc). Whether you believe in them or not, conspiracy theories are often helpful to research. There are things that I still don't rightly know the answer to, the most identifiable (in the past few years) example being why WTC 7 collapsed. I read the NIST report in 2008, and it's main claim was that the uncontrolled fires simply weakened the building to the point where it couldn't handle it, and buckled. This still makes little sense to me. I understand that the FDNY was nearly incapacitated by this point, but NIST even admitted that diesel fuel and the damage from WTC 1 & 2 debris didn't play a role in the collapse. A high rise building, with the damage and fires primarily on one side collapsing after an 8 hour fire? Unparalleled in history. But truly, it makes little sense in the realm of conspiracy. Because of some SEC investigations, they blow up the building? Doubtful.


2. The most fundamental question.

When deciding whether or not you feel as if 9/11 was an inside job, you're truly deciding the answer to this question:

Is the government totally incompetent, or is it hyper-competent?

To believe in a 9/11 conspiracy, you have to believe that the government is capable of carrying out the attacks themselves, and then the far more difficult cover-up. I studied government in my college years, and I can't at all fathom that they would be able to do such a masterful job. This is where the conspiracy people lose me. Capable of bringing down the WTC, and then successfully lying about it? Did you see how hard it was just to RAISE THE DEBT CEILING? Come on.

I'm certainly not exonerating the government. I'm of the school that the government was incompetent on this. There is far more evidence indicating that people within the FBI, CIA and Defense department were telling both Clinton and Bush, on a constant basis, that these attacks were imminent, than there is evidence that they actually went through with the plot itself. There were TONS of warning signs, and tons of government officials that ignored them (Condi Rice deserves particular mention here, as someone close to the situation that consistently ignored those under her who were warning her about it). There were people within the government who deserve credit, too. Tons of our appointed officials did there jobs, but were simply held up by those above them. Counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke was adamant about it, and did his best to raise flags to both Clinton and Bush, but was duly ignored. Ironically, he's the only official I've ever heard apologize about 9/11, but one of the least culpable.


To summarize, 9/11 was pulled off by 19 hijackers, guided by the likes of Osama bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, Ramzi bin-al Shibh and others. There are many unanswered questions about the attacks themselves, but one of them should not be whether or not the U.S. government played an active role. They are guilty of gross negligence, but no more."

mrveggieman
12-21-2011, 10:00 AM
Okay, I think I may serve to bridge some gap between you and most other people on here. I'm going to post my initial response to this thread (from some months ago), and I'm curious as to whether or not you believe that I'm a "sheep":

"I've spent more time studying and researching 9/11 than I have any other event in American history. I've come to 2 conclusions:

1. Conspiracy theories shouldn't be dismissed.

Personally, I don't think 9/11 was an inside job. However, the abundance of different theories DO house some truths, and just as importantly, pose legitimate questions that we don't have answers to. There were many things that happened on 9/11 that were pushed to the background (WTC 7, the truckload of explosives found on the George Washington Bridge, etc). Whether you believe in them or not, conspiracy theories are often helpful to research. There are things that I still don't rightly know the answer to, the most identifiable (in the past few years) example being why WTC 7 collapsed. I read the NIST report in 2008, and it's main claim was that the uncontrolled fires simply weakened the building to the point where it couldn't handle it, and buckled. This still makes little sense to me. I understand that the FDNY was nearly incapacitated by this point, but NIST even admitted that diesel fuel and the damage from WTC 1 & 2 debris didn't play a role in the collapse. A high rise building, with the damage and fires primarily on one side collapsing after an 8 hour fire? Unparalleled in history. But truly, it makes little sense in the realm of conspiracy. Because of some SEC investigations, they blow up the building? Doubtful.


2. The most fundamental question.

When deciding whether or not you feel as if 9/11 was an inside job, you're truly deciding the answer to this question:

Is the government totally incompetent, or is it hyper-competent?

To believe in a 9/11 conspiracy, you have to believe that the government is capable of carrying out the attacks themselves, and then the far more difficult cover-up. I studied government in my college years, and I can't at all fathom that they would be able to do such a masterful job. This is where the conspiracy people lose me. Capable of bringing down the WTC, and then successfully lying about it? Did you see how hard it was just to RAISE THE DEBT CEILING? Come on.

I'm certainly not exonerating the government. I'm of the school that the government was incompetent on this. There is far more evidence indicating that people within the FBI, CIA and Defense department were telling both Clinton and Bush, on a constant basis, that these attacks were imminent, than there is evidence that they actually went through with the plot itself. There were TONS of warning signs, and tons of government officials that ignored them (Condi Rice deserves particular mention here, as someone close to the situation that consistently ignored those under her who were warning her about it). There were people within the government who deserve credit, too. Tons of our appointed officials did there jobs, but were simply held up by those above them. Counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke was adamant about it, and did his best to raise flags to both Clinton and Bush, but was duly ignored. Ironically, he's the only official I've ever heard apologize about 9/11, but one of the least culpable.


To summarize, 9/11 was pulled off by 19 hijackers, guided by the likes of Osama bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, Ramzi bin-al Shibh and others. There are many unanswered questions about the attacks themselves, but one of them should not be whether or not the U.S. government played an active role. They are guilty of gross negligence, but no more."


If the common man's "gross negligence" caused the death of 3000 innocent people he would never see the light of day again. Why is it that gov't officials get a free pass?

pghin08
12-21-2011, 10:18 AM
If the common man's "gross negligence" caused the death of 3000 innocent people he would never see the light of day again. Why is it that gov't officials get a free pass?

This is a very different type of gross negligence. A singular human being is grossly negligent when he drunkenly gets behind the wheel. This is far more opaque, and infinitely less direct. In a situation like this, it becomes very difficult to identify exactly who was doing their job and who wasn't. You can do it on a small scale (Condi Rice- didn't do her job, John O'Neil- did his job), but to try to find all of those whom someone would deem responsible for this would be a massive undertaking.

I fundamentally agree with you though. The Clinton and Bush administrations have definitely received free passes on this. It's tough though, because as common citizens, we're usually not privy to every threat that the US encounters. For every 9/11, the government may have stopped 100 similar plots.