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mrveggieman
09-08-2011, 10:09 AM
Here's a little something to get you going early in the morning. Check out christian preacher Rick Warren's remarks regarding muslims. Please watch the video before commenting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I87Krdg3X_I

ensbergcollector
09-08-2011, 11:16 AM
seeing as how you didn't comment on your own post, I'm not sure what I was supposed to notice. and yes, i did watch the video

mrveggieman
09-08-2011, 11:43 AM
seeing as how you didn't comment on your own post, I'm not sure what I was supposed to notice. and yes, i did watch the video

It was just some food for thought. I actually like rick warren. He is the the anti-jerry fallwell. He is a christian preacher who follows Jesus message of love and compassion and does not preach hatred and bigotry like a lot of the right wingers like to do.

ensbergcollector
09-08-2011, 11:52 AM
cool, just making sure.

mrveggieman
09-08-2011, 12:47 PM
cool, just making sure.


No doubt.

ensbergcollector
09-08-2011, 01:12 PM
as a christian and as a minister, the thing that bothers me is it is the jerry fallwells of the world that get publicized so that people take their views as the view of christianity. There are way more people who share warrens attitude.

mrveggieman
09-08-2011, 01:36 PM
as a christian and as a minister, the thing that bothers me is it is the jerry fallwells of the world that get publicized so that people take their views as the view of christianity. There are way more people who share warrens attitude.


Can I get an amen!! :cheer2:

gatorboymike
09-08-2011, 05:59 PM
as a christian and as a minister, the thing that bothers me is it is the jerry fallwells of the world that get publicized so that people take their views as the view of christianity. There are way more people who share warrens attitude.

I've never laughed so hard.

INTIMADATOR2007
09-08-2011, 06:15 PM
It was just some food for thought. I actually like rick warren. He is the the anti-jerry fallwell. He is a christian preacher who follows Jesus message of love and compassion and does not preach hatred and bigotry like a lot of the right wingers like to do.


Name one , Besides the Presidents preacher Rev. Wright !

sanfran22
09-08-2011, 08:06 PM
as a christian and as a minister, the thing that bothers me is it is the jerry fallwells of the world that get publicized so that people take their views as the view of christianity. There are way more people who share warrens attitude.
wrong quoted post.

sanfran22
09-08-2011, 08:36 PM
It was just some food for thought. I actually like rick warren. He is the the anti-jerry fallwell. He is a christian preacher who follows Jesus message of love and compassion and does not preach hatred and bigotry like a lot of the right wingers like to do.

Lol, do you know anything about warren? I believe he supported prop 8 in cali. Per your previous posts, that would make him a bigot I guess....

duwal
09-08-2011, 09:29 PM
It was just some food for thought. I actually like rick warren. He is the the anti-jerry fallwell. He is a christian preacher who follows Jesus message of love and compassion and does not preach hatred and bigotry like a lot of the right wingers like to do.



well that would pretty much go for any preacher that is against homosexuality

duane1969
09-08-2011, 09:56 PM
I watched the video. Seemed pretty inocuous. He didn't exactly preach brotherhood and unity, he just told a story about community success.

Curious, when you guys say "a lot of the right wingers" preach bigotry and hatred, who do you speak of? Admittedly I don't do church, but I can't recall any large quantity of Christians or ministers that openly preached bigotry or hatred.

*censored*
09-09-2011, 09:15 AM
Curious, when you guys say "a lot of the right wingers" preach bigotry and hatred, who do you speak of? Admittedly I don't do church, but I can't recall any large quantity of Christians or ministers that openly preached bigotry or hatred.

Here are a few direct quotes from some.

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry

"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."
--Joseph Morecraft

"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians."
--Gary North

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."
--Jerry Falwell

"A cult is any group that has a form of godliness, but does not recognize Jesus Christ as the unique son of God... One test of a cult is that it often does not strictly teach that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who HImself is God manifested in the flesh."
--CBN pamphlet (Pat Robertson's TV programming company)

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
--George H.W. Bush

"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity."
--Pat Buchanan

"A religion that doesn't discriminate wouldn't exist, because it wouldn't stand for anything."
--Janet Parshall

"God Hates Fags!"
--Fred Phelps

"The god of Judaism is the devil. The Jew will not be recognized by God as one of His chosen people until he abandons his demonic religion and returns to the faith of his fathers--the faith which embraces Jesus Christ and His Gospel. "
--David Chilton

"We don't necessarily discriminate. We simply exclude certain types of people."
-Gerald Wellman

Want more, or is that enough?

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 09:57 AM
Here are a few direct quotes from some.

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry

"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."
--Joseph Morecraft

"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians."
--Gary North

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."
--Jerry Falwell

"A cult is any group that has a form of godliness, but does not recognize Jesus Christ as the unique son of God... One test of a cult is that it often does not strictly teach that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who HImself is God manifested in the flesh."
--CBN pamphlet (Pat Robertson's TV programming company)

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
--George H.W. Bush

"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity."
--Pat Buchanan

"A religion that doesn't discriminate wouldn't exist, because it wouldn't stand for anything."
--Janet Parshall

"God Hates Fags!"
--Fred Phelps

"The god of Judaism is the devil. The Jew will not be recognized by God as one of His chosen people until he abandons his demonic religion and returns to the faith of his fathers--the faith which embraces Jesus Christ and His Gospel. "
--David Chilton

"We don't necessarily discriminate. We simply exclude certain types of people."
-Gerald Wellman

Want more, or is that enough?



You took the words right out of my mouth Censored.

@Intimadator2007, are these enough for you or do we need to find more?

sanfran22
09-09-2011, 10:51 AM
Should I go and list a bunch of quotes from liberals who say stupid things?

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 10:56 AM
Should I go and list a bunch of quotes from liberals who say stupid things?


There would be nothing that would stop you from doing so even though that is not relevant to our discussion. We are talking about hateful right wing religious fanatics. Stop trying to deflect the blame elsewhere and please try to stay on the task at hand.

sanfran22
09-09-2011, 11:00 AM
There would be nothing that would stop you from doing so even though that is not relevant to our discussion. We are talking about hateful right wing religious fanatics. Stop trying to deflect the blame elsewhere and please try to stay on the task at hand.

Lol, like you always do? Is that why this thread was started? Because the first post doesn't say that... Maybe you ought to follow your own advice or maybe just keep whining.

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 11:14 AM
Lol, like you always do? Is that why this thread was started? Because the first post doesn't say that... Maybe you ought to follow your own advice or maybe just keep whining.

No more like you and a lot of your right wing neo-con buddies who always whine about everything that our president does instead of thinking of ways that we could come together as one for the betterment of all.

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 11:51 AM
and this is the problem with quoting random people. I am a christian minister and I know of only 4 of those people. However, there are entire websites devoted to finding anyone who claims to be a christian and says something stupid. We could take any occupation and find people who say stupid things. Doesn't mean they speak for all of their profession nor does it mean they represent the majority of people.

sanfran22
09-09-2011, 12:00 PM
and this is the problem with quoting random people. I am a christian minister and I know of only 4 of those people. However, there are entire websites devoted to finding anyone who claims to be a christian and says something stupid. We could take any occupation and find people who say stupid things. Doesn't mean they speak for all of their profession nor does it mean they represent the majority of people.

Which was exactly my point. Anyone can call themselves anything they want. Doesn't mean it's true and their actions could point the exact opposite. Kinda like Obama was a centrist, lol.:sign0020::sign0020: Or the Westboro Baptist Church is a Bible teaching, Christ following church.:sign0020:

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 12:57 PM
and this is the problem with quoting random people. I am a christian minister and I know of only 4 of those people. However, there are entire websites devoted to finding anyone who claims to be a christian and says something stupid. We could take any occupation and find people who say stupid things. Doesn't mean they speak for all of their profession nor does it mean they represent the majority of people.

Really? Only 4?

I'm curious who the 4 are. :sign0020:

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 12:57 PM
Which was exactly my point. Anyone can call themselves anything they want. Doesn't mean it's true and their actions could point the exact opposite. Kinda like Obama was a centrist, lol.:sign0020::sign0020: Or the Westboro Baptist Church is a Bible teaching, Christ following church.:sign0020:

It just seems so convenient that you distance yourself from extremist christians which you have every right to do so but you like to lump all muslims together and your buddy tries to suggest that if some black kids commit random acts of violence all blacks should be held responsible. Things that make you go hmm....

sanfran22
09-09-2011, 01:04 PM
It just seems so convenient that you distance yourself from extremist christians which you have every right to do so but you like to lump all muslims together and your buddy tries to suggest that if some black kids commit random acts of violence all blacks should be held responsible. Things that make you go hmm....

As I said before, and I will say it once more for those that don't listen. The Christian religion and the Muslim religion teach two different things. When you go and compare them, then feel free to comment.

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 01:19 PM
As I said before, and I will say it once more for those that don't listen. The Christian religion and the Muslim religion teach two different things. When you go and compare them, then feel free to comment.


Every religion has different teachings so what is your point? Should I provide verses in the bible that promote violence and hatred?

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 01:45 PM
Every religion has different teachings so what is your point? Should I provide verses in the bible that promote violence and hatred?

can you find me entire countries that, using the bible as proof, desire to wipe out (not infringe rights of, bu actually kill) all citizens who aren't christian? Can you find me entire countries that, using the bible as proof, have found any other religion to be against the law? And if you can, please stick to modern day. If you try and compare modern muslim countries with christian countries from 700 years ago you insult both religions.

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 02:02 PM
can you find me entire countries that, using the bible as proof, desire to wipe out (not infringe rights of, bu actually kill) all citizens who aren't christian? Can you find me entire countries that, using the bible as proof, have found any other religion to be against the law? And if you can, please stick to modern day. If you try and compare modern muslim countries with christian countries from 700 years ago you insult both religions.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you implying that these modern Muslim countries, controlled by radical Muslims, represent their entire country and every practicing Muslim in said countries desire to wipe out Christians?

duane1969
09-09-2011, 02:03 PM
No more like you and a lot of your right wing neo-con buddies who always whine about everything that our president does instead of thinking of ways that we could come together as one for the betterment of all.

So this "coming together" thing, how does it work? Do I have to forsake my conservative values and accept your liberal ones or will you forsake your liberal ones and accept my conservative ones?

I ask because everytime I hear a liberal talk about "coming together" or "getting along" it always means the opposition has to accept the liberal perspective. I never hear liberals giving in an inch.

Liberals like to talk the talk, but the first time someone disagrees with their perspective they start labeling, name-calling and insulting.


Really? Only 4?

I'm curious who the 4 are. :sign0020:

I was raised in the Baptist church and married a Pentecostal preacher's daughter...I have only heard of a few of them myself.


can you find me entire countries that, using the bible as proof, desire to wipe out (not infringe rights of, bu actually kill) all citizens who aren't christian? Can you find me entire countries that, using the bible as proof, have found any other religion to be against the law? And if you can, please stick to modern day. If you try and compare modern muslim countries with christian countries from 700 years ago you insult both religions.

The Crusades are always the fall back point in this discussion. Nevermind that it was 800-900 years ago and that it was the Catholic church and not all of Christianity.

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 02:07 PM
I was raised in the Baptist church and married a Pentecostal preacher's daughter...I have only heard of a few of them myself.

Okay, but surely that means you have heard of these 5:

Robertson
Buchanan
Bush
Falwell
Phelps

I was curious as to which of these he hadn't heard of.

duane1969
09-09-2011, 02:09 PM
Okay, but surely that means you have heard of these 5:

Robertson
Buchanan
Bush
Falwell
Phelps

I was curious as to which of these he hadn't heard of.

Have heard of Robertson, Buchanan, Bush and Falwell. Not Phelps or the rest.

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 02:13 PM
Have heard of Robertson, Buchanan, Bush and Falwell. Not Phelps or the rest.

Really? I would have thought all Americans knew the name of the guy protesting at dead American soldier's funerals.

duane1969
09-09-2011, 02:22 PM
Really? I would have thought all Americans knew the name of the guy protesting at dead American soldier's funerals.

Oh that was him? I try not to focus too much on insignificant people. I put him in the same classification as Nancy Pelosi.

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 02:27 PM
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you implying that these modern Muslim countries, controlled by radical Muslims, represent their entire country and every practicing Muslim in said countries desire to wipe out Christians?

no, but everyone tries to say there is no difference in christianity and islam and that both can be "taken out of context." However, you have multiple countries that promote violence against anyone who isn't muslim and have declared any religion other than islam illegal. Now I am fully aware that those countries do not speak for the majority of muslims but to say there is no difference in the texts of the bible and the koran is ridiculous. So again, look at muslim led countries and look at countries which are primarily christian. Can you honestly tell me there is no difference.

and as to the quotes, I do know those 5, I just refuse to acknowledge phelps as a christian and anyone who uses his quotes to say anything about christianity is showing their own bias.

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 02:35 PM
no, but everyone tries to say there is no difference in christianity and islam and that both can be "taken out of context." However, you have multiple countries that promote violence against anyone who isn't muslim and have declared any religion other than islam illegal. Now I am fully aware that those countries do not speak for the majority of muslims but to say there is no difference in the texts of the bible and the koran is ridiculous. So again, look at muslim led countries and look at countries which are primarily christian. Can you honestly tell me there is no difference.

and as to the quotes, I do know those 5, I just refuse to acknowledge phelps as a christian and anyone who uses his quotes to say anything about christianity is showing their own bias.

Considering the quote by Bush, do you think he would want the same for Christianity in the US if he could?

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 02:46 PM
Considering the quote by Bush, do you think he would want the same for Christianity in the US if he could?

nice avoidance of the questions. no, i don't think he would. Instead of using one quote from someone, let's look at entire countries actions. I know it is uncomfortable because it doesn't mix with the attitude most of the anti-christian people have around here, but if you deal in reality, the entire argument falls apart.

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 02:52 PM
nice avoidance of the questions. no, i don't think he would. Instead of using one quote from someone, let's look at entire countries actions. I know it is uncomfortable because it doesn't mix with the attitude most of the anti-christian people have around here, but if you deal in reality, the entire argument falls apart.


I know for a fact that fallwell (if he were alive today) as well as most of his extremist right wing buddies which btw we are both mutually against would want a christian totalatarian society and would outlaw any religion except for their extreme form of christianity. How are they any different in what they desire for america than what some muslim countries already have?

sanfran22
09-09-2011, 03:05 PM
I know for a fact that fallwell (if he were alive today) as well as most of his extremist right wing buddies which btw we are both mutually against would want a christian totalatarian society and would outlaw any religion except for their extreme form of christianity. How are they any different in what they desire for america than what some muslim countries already have?

Prove that statement since you know it for a "fact".

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 03:12 PM
I know for a fact that fallwell (if he were alive today) as well as most of his extremist right wing buddies which btw we are both mutually against would want a christian totalatarian society and would outlaw any religion except for their extreme form of christianity. How are they any different in what they desire for america than what some muslim countries already have?

while i don't doubt what fallwell and the others like him would want, how can you compare what a vast minority "would" want and say it is the same as what numerous countries already have? Surely you don't think the two are comparable?

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 03:22 PM
no, but everyone tries to say there is no difference in christianity and islam and that both can be "taken out of context." However, you have multiple countries that promote violence against anyone who isn't muslim and have declared any religion other than islam illegal. Now I am fully aware that those countries do not speak for the majority of muslims but to say there is no difference in the texts of the bible and the koran is ridiculous. So again, look at muslim led countries and look at countries which are primarily christian. Can you honestly tell me there is no difference.

and as to the quotes, I do know those 5, I just refuse to acknowledge phelps as a christian and anyone who uses his quotes to say anything about christianity is showing their own bias.

I guess you wanted me to address this question? Okay. Yes, I can honestly tell you there is no difference "faith" wise between the countries. The difference lies in how they are governed.

And believe me, the day one of my country's leaders publicly states that Atheists should not be considered citizens, is the day his political career is over.

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 03:26 PM
while i don't doubt what fallwell and the others like him would want, how can you compare what a vast minority "would" want and say it is the same as what numerous countries already have? Surely you don't think the two are comparable?

They are comparable because the Falwells of America and the ruling leaders of Muslim countries are both minorities when referring to their faiths.

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 03:40 PM
Prove that statement since you know it for a "fact".


Enjoy the following quote from one of your right wing christian leaders. He is basically saying that hitler was doing the work of god by committing the atrocities of the holocaust.

“How did [the Holocaust] happen ? Because God allowed it to happen… because God said, ‘My top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.’”
—Rev. John Hagee in 2006

Also check out the following nutjob:

“Kids today are looking for something to die for… If you give them something to die for, they’ll go to the edge of the earth for you.”
—James Dobson’s son Ryan, in 2005. His book, 2Die4 : The Dangerous Truth About Following Christ advocates “murderous war because our enemies are deadly.

duane1969
09-09-2011, 03:43 PM
I guess you wanted me to address this question? Okay. Yes, I can honestly tell you there is no difference "faith" wise between the countries. The difference lies in how they are governed.

And believe me, the day one of my country's leaders publicly states that Atheists should not be considered citizens, is the day his political career is over.

Yeah but Canada is what...99.999% liberal. Can you even get elected in Canada if you call yourself a conservative?

BTW I am being tongue-in-cheek...

duane1969
09-09-2011, 03:45 PM
Enjoy the following quote from one of your right wing christian leaders. He is basically saying that hitler was doing the work of god by committing the atrocities of the holocaust.

“How did [the Holocaust] happen ? Because God allowed it to happen… because God said, ‘My top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.’”
—Rev. John Hagee in 2006

Also check out the following nutjob:

“Kids today are looking for something to die for… If you give them something to die for, they’ll go to the edge of the earth for you.”
—James Dobson’s son Ryan, in 2005. His book, 2Die4 : The Dangerous Truth About Following Christ advocates “murderous war because our enemies are deadly.


I have no dog in this fight, but I fail to see how either of those quotes proves that conservatives want a Christian totalitarian state.

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 03:54 PM
I guess you wanted me to address this question? Okay. Yes, I can honestly tell you there is no difference "faith" wise between the countries. The difference lies in how they are governed.

And believe me, the day one of my country's leaders publicly states that Atheists should not be considered citizens, is the day his political career is over.

i appreciate your honesty. I can now know never to take anything you post seriously. the fact that you can say there is no difference in a country with equal rights who has a few idiots who say stupid stuff and numerous countries who are outright violent toward anyone not of their religion is ridiculous. The only logical explanation for your stance is that you feel the immense need to express hatred toward christianity.
It isn't just about how they are governed. This country would never allow the atrocities that are common place in other countries to go on.

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 03:57 PM
I have no dog in this fight, but I fail to see how either of those quotes proves that conservatives want a Christian totalitarian state.


These are your conservative christian leaders are they not? You don't think that if they are that much off the deep end with these insane comments what's to say that they aren't secretly jealous of how muslim countries are ran and wouldn't kill someone to have america ran in a similiar way as a christian country. Ya'll conservatives need to be careful for what you wish for cause it just may come to pass. Don't say that I didn't warn you. :winking0071:

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 04:09 PM
i appreciate your honesty. I can now know never to take anything you post seriously. the fact that you can say there is no difference in a country with equal rights who has a few idiots who say stupid stuff and numerous countries who are outright violent toward anyone not of their religion is ridiculous. The only logical explanation for your stance is that you feel the immense need to express hatred toward christianity.
It isn't just about how they are governed. This country would never allow the atrocities that are common place in other countries to go on.

Okay, feel free to put me on ignore. The fact is, I consider a "country" to be its PEOPLE. I do not consider a "country" to be its RULERS. You apparently can't fathom the difference.

And I certainly do not have a hatred for christianity. I have no idea where that accusation is coming from. I can't think of a single thing in life worthy of being hated. If anything, I dismiss all religion as fantasy.

gatorboymike
09-09-2011, 04:24 PM
and this is the problem with quoting random people. I am a christian minister and I know of only 4 of those people. However, there are entire websites devoted to finding anyone who claims to be a christian and says something stupid. We could take any occupation and find people who say stupid things. Doesn't mean they speak for all of their profession nor does it mean they represent the majority of people.

First you say, "Well, Christians never say hateful right-wing extremist things!" and then when shown a whole bunch of hateful right-wing extremist things that have been said by prominent, rich, powerful Christian leaders with massive amounts of followers you say, "Oh, they don't represnt real Christians! There's hardly any of them at all and they don't matter at all!" You're going to need a bigger janitor's cart to clean up this mess, Smiley.

You know, you people are always criticizing Islam because the moderates never speak out against the extremists. Well, Christianity has that problem just as bad as Islam does, if not worse, and you yourself are the evidence of that. Take for example those idiots at Westboro Baptist, and don't pretend you've never heard of them. Ask any "mainstream" Christian why he doesn't like them, and you will ALWAYS get the same answer: "Because they make Christianity look bad." They NEVER say, "Because I don't agree with them."

Your real problem isn't that you don't agree with the extremists, it's that you DO agree with them and just want to pretend you don't, you want everyone to think you don't. But you want the extremists out there saying the things you can't get caught saying, lest it endanger the amount of money your flock puts in your collection plate. You want the extremists out there to say the things you really think deep down, so those things can be out there, and so the base can be radicalized like you want, but so you don't have to take responsibility for it when something terrible happens.

sanfran22
09-09-2011, 04:33 PM
Enjoy the following quote from one of your right wing christian leaders. He is basically saying that hitler was doing the work of god by committing the atrocities of the holocaust.

“How did [the Holocaust] happen ? Because God allowed it to happen… because God said, ‘My top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.’”
—Rev. John Hagee in 2006

Also check out the following nutjob:

“Kids today are looking for something to die for… If you give them something to die for, they’ll go to the edge of the earth for you.”
—James Dobson’s son Ryan, in 2005. His book, 2Die4 : The Dangerous Truth About Following Christ advocates “murderous war because our enemies are deadly.
Do you just assume things much? That all really means that to you?? Why just quote a snipet? Where's the whole text w/o all the .........??
If you know anything about the Bible you know God promised the Jews a specific piece of land. He also Banished them in the wilderness for 40 years. God did not ordain Hitler to exterminate the jews. That being said all things happen because God does not interfere. Hence the free will. This was not His original plan. It also wont always be this way. He wanted us to live in perfection glorifying Him, But we had other things in mind.

gatorboymike
09-09-2011, 04:47 PM
Gotta love the "Free will" excuse. Christians have strapped more weight to the back of that mule than an indigent farmer.

sanfran22
09-09-2011, 04:51 PM
Gotta love the "Free will" excuse. Christians have strapped more weight to the back of that mule than an indigent farmer.

Gotta love every comment you make....:smash:

mrveggieman
09-09-2011, 05:05 PM
Gotta love every comment you make....:smash:


And I'm sure that a lot of people on here feel the same way about you. Don't ever leave P&R. We all enjoy getting a good laugh from your comments. :kiss:

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 05:07 PM
Okay, feel free to put me on ignore. The fact is, I consider a "country" to be its PEOPLE. I do not consider a "country" to be its RULERS. You apparently can't fathom the difference.

And I certainly do not have a hatred for christianity. I have no idea where that accusation is coming from. I can't think of a single thing in life worthy of being hated. If anything, I dismiss all religion as fantasy.

so for you, based on your people vs rulers idea, there is no difference in america which has some religious nuts who try and make press but in no way effect this country outside of their small circles, and entire countries whose policies and laws are controlled by the same kind of religious nots?

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 05:09 PM
First you say, "Well, Christians never say hateful right-wing extremist things!" and then when shown a whole bunch of hateful right-wing extremist things that have been said by prominent, rich, powerful Christian leaders with massive amounts of followers you say, "Oh, they don't represnt real Christians! There's hardly any of them at all and they don't matter at all!" You're going to need a bigger janitor's cart to clean up this mess, Smiley.

You know, you people are always criticizing Islam because the moderates never speak out against the extremists. Well, Christianity has that problem just as bad as Islam does, if not worse, and you yourself are the evidence of that. Take for example those idiots at Westboro Baptist, and don't pretend you've never heard of them. Ask any "mainstream" Christian why he doesn't like them, and you will ALWAYS get the same answer: "Because they make Christianity look bad." They NEVER say, "Because I don't agree with them."

Your real problem isn't that you don't agree with the extremists, it's that you DO agree with them and just want to pretend you don't, you want everyone to think you don't. But you want the extremists out there saying the things you can't get caught saying, lest it endanger the amount of money your flock puts in your collection plate. You want the extremists out there to say the things you really think deep down, so those things can be out there, and so the base can be radicalized like you want, but so you don't have to take responsibility for it when something terrible happens.

oh how many ways can you be wrong, let me count the ways. First of all, i never said right wing people don't say crazy things. I know they do. secondly, you always say things based on your amazing ability to read everyone's minds. Most christians are opposed to westboro because they have perverted christianity.
and as to your last paragraph, it is lying venom so done.

gatorboymike
09-09-2011, 05:19 PM
oh how many ways can you be wrong, let me count the ways. First of all, i never said right wing people don't say crazy things. I know they do. secondly, you always say things based on your amazing ability to read everyone's minds. Most christians are opposed to westboro because they have perverted christianity.
and as to your last paragraph, it is lying venom so done.

Most Christians agree with everything Westboro says, just not with the way they say it. You ask any Christian, "Does the Bible say God hates homosexuals? Does the Bible say God prescribes the death penalty for homosexuality? Do you agree that this is true and right?" they will say yes. They are totally, 100% on the same page as the Westboro people. They just want to pretend they're not, because if they actually did what the Bible says they are supposed to do, they would go to prison and be separated from their precious, precious flat screen TVs and triple lattes and GAP jeans and Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and Drudge Report and all the modern conveniences they actually worship far, far, far more than any god they pretend to worship.

You all love to play the "I'm a true Christian and everyone who isn't exactly like me in every way imaginable is a false Christian" card. Well, if anyone is a true Christian, it's the Westboro people. They're the ones who actually have the guts to admit they believe in this stuff and consider it good. If you were honest you'd either be right up there with them, waving signs making fun of the deaths of US troops, or not claiming to be a Christian at all.

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 05:31 PM
Most Christians agree with everything Westboro says, just not with the way they say it. You ask any Christian, "Does the Bible say God hates homosexuals? Does the Bible say God prescribes the death penalty for homosexuality? Do you agree that this is true and right?" they will say yes. They are totally, 100% on the same page as the Westboro people. They just want to pretend they're not, because if they actually did what the Bible says they are supposed to do, they would go to prison and be separated from their precious, precious flat screen TVs and triple lattes and GAP jeans and Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and Drudge Report and all the modern conveniences they actually worship far, far, far more than any god they pretend to worship.

You all love to play the "I'm a true Christian and everyone who isn't exactly like me in every way imaginable is a false Christian" card. Well, if anyone is a true Christian, it's the Westboro people. They're the ones who actually have the guts to admit they believe in this stuff and consider it good. If you were honest you'd either be right up there with them, waving signs making fun of the deaths of US troops, or not claiming to be a Christian at all.

wrong. but then again, i wouldn't expect an atheist who hates all things religion to know anything true about christianity anyway.

gatorboymike
09-09-2011, 05:32 PM
And you can't expect a salesman to tell the truth about what they're selling.

sanfran22
09-09-2011, 05:50 PM
You are soooo wrong it's kinda disturbing.....

theonedru
09-09-2011, 07:22 PM
Most Christians agree with everything Westboro says, just not with the way they say it. You ask any Christian, "Does the Bible say God hates homosexuals? Does the Bible say God prescribes the death penalty for homosexuality? Do you agree that this is true and right?" they will say yes. They are totally, 100% on the same page as the Westboro people. They just want to pretend they're not, because if they actually did what the Bible says they are supposed to do, they would go to prison and be separated from their precious, precious flat screen TVs and triple lattes and GAP jeans and Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and Drudge Report and all the modern conveniences they actually worship far, far, far more than any god they pretend to worship.

You all love to play the "I'm a true Christian and everyone who isn't exactly like me in every way imaginable is a false Christian" card. Well, if anyone is a true Christian, it's the Westboro people. They're the ones who actually have the guts to admit they believe in this stuff and consider it good. If you were honest you'd either be right up there with them, waving signs making fun of the deaths of US troops, or not claiming to be a Christian at all.

The Bible while inspired by God was written by man and as such should not be held in any high regard seeing how fallible man is.... Faith good religon bad .....

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 08:12 PM
That is the only difference right there. America's nuts are not in charge and some Muslim countries' nuts are in charge. That should have no bearing on how people perceive Christianity and the...

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 08:19 PM
again, i have never once said anything about "all muslims" nor have I said that all people who live in those countries agree with their leaders. I take issue when people say there is no difference...

habsheaven
09-09-2011, 08:27 PM
again, i have never once said anything about "all muslims" nor have I said that all people who live in those countries agree with their leaders. I take issue when people say there is no difference in the two religions when all it takes is a look at the world to see that isn't true.

If you want to see the difference you have to compare how the majority of people are practicing each faith. Then you will see the differences are minor. You want to compare your majority to the fanatical minority of the other to make Christianity look better. Newsflash, it isn't any better or worse.

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 09:51 PM
If you want to see the difference you have to compare how the majority of people are practicing each faith. Then you will see the differences are minor. You want to compare your majority to the fanatical minority of the other to make Christianity look better. Newsflash, it isn't any better or worse.

well, seeing as how there are close to 50 countries that openly target christianity and basically zero (that I have found, please tell me if I am wrong) that openly target islam you are going to be hard pressed to tell me the religions are the same.

also, i am not trying to make christianity look better. I assure you I know full well that the people on here are set in their opinions.

gatorboymike
09-09-2011, 09:58 PM
Uh huh, and how many predominantly Christian countries are there that target non-Christian religions? That would be, basically, certain parts of Europe, most of Africa, all of South America, all of Central America, and of course, the country you freakin' live in. Do we need to get what's-his-name in here with more links from Islamophobia Today? LOL.

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 11:12 PM
Uh huh, and how many predominantly Christian countries are there that target non-Christian religions? That would be, basically, certain parts of Europe, most of Africa, all of South America, all of Central America, and of course, the country you freakin' live in. Do we need to get what's-his-name in here with more links from Islamophobia Today? LOL.

really? there are countries where converting to christianity will have you killed and you want to compare that to what?

gatorboymike
09-09-2011, 11:29 PM
There are countries where Christians still burn people at the stake for being "witches." Or any number of other things.

ensbergcollector
09-09-2011, 11:40 PM
There are countries where Christians still burn people at the stake for being "witches." Or any number of other things.

care to share an example, i had not heard of this

tutall
09-09-2011, 11:45 PM
First you say, "Well, Christians never say hateful right-wing extremist things!" and then when shown a whole bunch of hateful right-wing extremist things that have been said by prominent, rich, powerful Christian leaders with massive amounts of followers you say, "Oh, they don't represnt real Christians! There's hardly any of them at all and they don't matter at all!" You're going to need a bigger janitor's cart to clean up this mess, Smiley.

You know, you people are always criticizing Islam because the moderates never speak out against the extremists. Well, Christianity has that problem just as bad as Islam does, if not worse, and you yourself are the evidence of that. Take for example those idiots at Westboro Baptist, and don't pretend you've never heard of them. Ask any "mainstream" Christian why he doesn't like them, and you will ALWAYS get the same answer: "Because they make Christianity look bad." They NEVER say, "Because I don't agree with them."

Your real problem isn't that you don't agree with the extremists, it's that you DO agree with them and just want to pretend you don't, you want everyone to think you don't. But you want the extremists out there saying the things you can't get caught saying, lest it endanger the amount of money your flock puts in your collection plate. You want the extremists out there to say the things you really think deep down, so those things can be out there, and so the base can be radicalized like you want, but so you don't have to take responsibility for it when something terrible happens.

Give me a freakin break dude... Seriously? That is your argument? I thought maybe the lines of christians with blankets that got the protestors outof site at the funerals of soldiers or the bikers for christ who let their motorcycles run and rev them by the protestors to drown out the noise they are creating so they cannot be heard would certainly paintthe picture as we dont agree with them...

gatorboymike
09-09-2011, 11:47 PM
I can't find any links that don't have profanity in the comments, so I can't post a link here. Do a Google search for "Christians burn witches in Kenya" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

gatorboymike
09-10-2011, 12:03 AM
Give me a freakin break dude... Seriously? That is your argument? I thought maybe the lines of christians with blankets that got the protestors outof site at the funerals of soldiers or the bikers for christ who let their motorcycles run and rev them by the protestors to drown out the noise they are creating so they cannot be heard would certainly paintthe picture as we dont agree with them...

And your evidence that those people were Christians is where exactly? "Bikers for Christ," give me a break. The bikers planting themselves between WBC and the funeral mourners are not Bikers for Christ, they are the Patriot Guard Riders. The Patriot Guard Riders are not an explicitly religious organization.

If you really don't agree with them, prove it. Tell us all that you don't think homosexuality is an abomination and that you don't think homosexuals deserve to be killed. That's what they think. Do you agree with that or not?

ensbergcollector
09-10-2011, 12:05 AM
I can't find any links that don't have profanity in the comments, so I can't post a link here. Do a Google search for "Christians burn witches in Kenya" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

honestly asking, not picking. what validation or evidence is there that this was done by christians? I see the term christian attached in a couple of videos but most of the text implies this is based on deep seeded african culture of witches and ghosts.

ensbergcollector
09-10-2011, 12:09 AM
And your evidence that those people were Christians is where exactly? "Bikers for Christ," give me a break. The bikers planting themselves between WBC and the funeral mourners are not Bikers for Christ, they are the Patriot Guard Riders. The Patriot Guard Riders are not an explicitly religious organization.

If you really don't agree with them, prove it. Tell us all that you don't think homosexuality is an abomination and that you don't think homosexuals deserve to be killed. That's what they think. Do you agree with that or not?

just to get in on this, while I think homosexuality is a sin (no more than premarital heterosexual sex) I do not think homosexuals deserve to be killed or anything even close to that. You can read every post I have ever made and it is very clear I have been very on the record about that.

gatorboymike
09-10-2011, 12:14 AM
honestly asking, not picking. what validation or evidence is there that this was done by christians? I see the term christian attached in a couple of videos but most of the text implies this is based on deep seeded african culture of witches and ghosts.

Here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-derrick/christian-extremism-witch_b_154685.html


just to get in on this, while I think homosexuality is a sin (no more than premarital heterosexual sex) I do not think homosexuals deserve to be killed or anything even close to that. You can read every post I have ever made and it is very clear I have been very on the record about that.

So would you say WBC is wrong to single it out as worse than other sins? What do you think should be done with gays and lesbians?

mrveggieman
09-10-2011, 10:46 AM
Uh huh, and how many predominantly Christian countries are there that target non-Christian religions? That would be, basically, certain parts of Europe, most of Africa, all of South America, all of Central America, and of course, the country you freakin' live in. Do we need to get what's-his-name in here with more links from Islamophobia Today? LOL.

Who wants to another example of right wing christians speading the message of christian love? Jesus would be so proud of him. SMH

http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/2011/09/08/terry-jones-returns-to-michigan-to-denounce-islam/

tutall
09-10-2011, 05:42 PM
And your evidence that those people were Christians is where exactly? "Bikers for Christ," give me a break. The bikers planting themselves between WBC and the funeral mourners are not Bikers for Christ, they are the Patriot Guard Riders. The Patriot Guard Riders are not an explicitly religious organization.

If you really don't agree with them, prove it. Tell us all that you don't think homosexuality is an abomination and that you don't think homosexuals deserve to be killed. That's what they think. Do you agree with that or not?

I dont agree they should be killed... I dont agree with their lifestyle just like they wouldnt approve of mine and I may not agree with yours.

Also the biker group that was here was not the Patriot Guard for our local funeral (We had a boy killed at least a year or year and a half ago) but it was a local riding group that went that day from a small town close to us

tutall
09-10-2011, 05:47 PM
Who wants to another example of right wing christians speading the message of christian love? Jesus would be so proud of him. SMH

http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/2011/09/08/terry-jones-returns-to-michigan-to-denounce-islam/

Good call... He must me real mainstream and have a ton of followers...




The pastor’s speech was greeted by more police, media and protesters than supporters or curious onlookers.





Afterward, Jones said he doesn’t have a problem with Muslims, just the radical element and Sharia. Jones lamented the low turnout, including the no-show of state Rep. Dave Agema, R-Grandville, who authored legislation to ban foreign law.


Not that I believe him but it is quoted in the article....

habsheaven
09-10-2011, 07:46 PM
I dont agree they should be killed... I dont agree with their lifestyle just like they wouldnt approve of mine and I may not agree with yours.

Also the biker group that was here was not the Patriot Guard for our local funeral (We had a boy killed at least a year or year and a half ago) but it was a local riding group that went that day from a small town close to us

What makes you think gay people wouldn't approve of your lifestyle? I am sure they may not want to live it, but I would also be certain that they approve the fact you are living the lifestyle you want to live.

tutall
09-10-2011, 09:41 PM
What makes you think gay people wouldn't approve of your lifestyle? I am sure they may not want to live it, but I would also be certain that they approve the fact you are living the lifestyle you want to live.

By they I meant WBC

habsheaven
09-10-2011, 10:52 PM
By they I meant WBC

Oh. Okay then, disregard my post.

gatorboymike
09-11-2011, 05:32 AM
There's a difference between "I wouldn't choose to live like that" and "Nobody should be allowed to live like that."

tutall
09-11-2011, 10:54 AM
There's a difference between "I wouldn't choose to live like that" and "Nobody should be allowed to live like that."

Where did I say no one should be allowed to live like that?

gatorboymike
09-11-2011, 11:38 PM
Where did I say no one should be allowed to live like that?

You didn't say that in so many words, but when I hear "living in manner X is a sin" it sounds indistinguishable from "no one should be allowed to live in manner X" to me.

tutall
09-12-2011, 12:00 AM
You didn't say that in so many words, but when I hear "living in manner X is a sin" it sounds indistinguishable from "no one should be allowed to live in manner X" to me.

Then you read too much into stuff and put words into my mouth.... I dont agree with the lifestyle... I dont agree with smoking marijuana either but I dont think people who do arebad people or should die... I disagree with abortion but dont think the mother and father should die when they decide on it.... i just disagree with them and have no problem telling them that... but they have the right to disagree with my beliefs also....