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mrveggieman
09-14-2011, 01:16 PM
I have been on the P&R forum for several months now. There are a lot of people who have presented a lot of good ideas on how they would change gov't but I have also seen a lot of political fanboys and armchair politicians who do not have a mind of their own and they only do what their party says. I'm starting this thread with what changes I would make if I were president or had the power to make whatever political changes you chose to. Feel free to comment positively or negatively if you so desire and also include your list of changes. With no futher delay here is what I would do.

First course of action would be to bring all of our troops home from Iraq and Afganastan. We have been playing around in the desert for almost a decade. We have caught sadam and obl. Time to call it a day.

Second thing I would do would be to outlaw abortion except in cases of rape or incest. But since I am doing that I would also be responsible for preventing unwanted pregnancies. I would mandate sex ed in all schools. Abstinence would be apart of the sex ed program but as we all know abstinence only programs are a complete failure. I would also provide easy access to contraceptives and condoms to anyone who needs them.

Next order of business would be to abolish the IRS and go to a fair tax system. The tax system as we know now is a complete joke and the more money you make the less taxes you pay. I was reading one fair tax plan were everyone got a $4500 tax rebate at the beginning of the year and taxes would be based on consumption not on some complicated forumla who not even the politicians who write it can understand.

I would also reach our to our muslim neighboors as well as isreal and let them know that there we can either all learn to live together as brothers and sisters or perish together as fools. I got that quote from Dr. MLK Jr. I would have a meeting with all of their leaders and work out a peace plan. It can be done.

Next order of business would be to invest in education. If we invest more in education we wouldn't have to spend as much on prisons and welfare.

Speaking of welfare if you want it and quailify fine. We will give you temporary assistance if you agree to drug and alcohol screening, take manditory job training or college courses and are able willing and available to work. If you don't agree to it fine no one is ever going to force you to take the govt's money.

I would also invest in green technology and research on alternitive fuels. We also need to have healtheir school lunches including vegetarian/vegan options for our students. That way they will be healthy as well as green.

Star_Cards
09-14-2011, 01:30 PM
I think taking out the IRS and bringing in a new tax code would be the first thing I would like to see. From what I've read the fair tax would create a much cheaper environment for businesses tax wise which could bring about help with the jobs crisis that we are having.

I'm not going to touch the abortion topic as we've had this discussion here before and most people in this forum have given their opinions. I would not move to outlaw abortion.

I'm for the troops being brought home. I know it's a tricky situation but at some point enough is enough.

mrveggieman
09-14-2011, 01:33 PM
I think taking out the IRS and bringing in a new tax code would be the first thing I would like to see. From what I've read the fair tax would create a much cheaper environment for businesses tax wise which could bring about help with the jobs crisis that we are having.

I'm not going to touch the abortion topic as we've had this discussion here before and most people in this forum have given their opinions. I would not move to outlaw abortion.

I'm for the troops being brought home. I know it's a tricky situation but at some point enough is enough.


+ 2/3 :sign0020:

Star_Cards
09-14-2011, 01:44 PM
I honestly think I would vote for a candidate that was pro Fair Tax even if I disagreed with a lot of other major aspects of his campaign. I guess it would depend on a lot of what those things were exactly, but I think repealing the tax code is a major part of reinventing our countries well being economically as well as for jobs.

mrveggieman
09-14-2011, 01:56 PM
I honestly think I would vote for a candidate that was pro Fair Tax even if I disagreed with a lot of other major aspects of his campaign. I guess it would depend on a lot of what those things were exactly, but I think repealing the tax code is a major part of reinventing our countries well being economically as well as for jobs.


I could strongly consider ron paul if I thought that he had a fair shot of winning. However even though herman cain has stated that he is in favor of the fair tax he is a complete idiot in my book and I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

pghin08
09-14-2011, 02:15 PM
President Pghin08's platform:

1. Entitlement Reform

If you were a male in the 1930s, you retired at age 65. Your life expectancy was about 58. Now the full retirement age is 67, and it's not uncommon to see people living to 90-100. You wanna live longer? You work longer. Raise the retirement age, cut out the $104K cap on Social Security and start means testing some of this crap. Does your 95 year old grandfather want Medicare to pay for his new hip? He's out of luck with me at the helm.

2. Abortion? I'm not even dealing with this. See Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey.

3. Cut some defense department waste.

Though it needs to be carefully done. Yes, defense spending is a large portion of our budget, but that didn't happen by accident. Let's investigate what's working and what's not working, and adjust accordingly.

4. Out of Iraq, still in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan has become strategic for us. The REAL problem is Pakistan, and if the US were to completely abandon Afghanistan, I'm just not sure what would happen.


5. I'll have a Republican veep.

This partisan crap is ridiculous. You want to bring about "change" in Washington, do it. If the administration has two sides represented well, it may set an example.


6. Is our children learning? Absolutely, in my country.

Our education system is in the crapper. We teach to the test, and that's about it. Kids will hate my administration. You will go to school year-round, working in trimesters, with small breaks in between (2-3 weeks max). Kids go to school in this country, have summer vacation, go back to school and spend a significant amount of time RE-learning what they did before summer. That's one of the big reasons we've gotten behind. We're not using our time wisely. With increased time in school, kids will have more time to incorporate the arts and physical education, while maintaining and even expanding math/science/language curriculums.

7. Homeownership is no longer the "American Dream"

Sorry, but not everyone can afford to own a home. See: Germany's housing market.


8. Increased financial regulation.

One of the few government agencies that would evade my cuts would be the SEC. They are WOEFULLY understaffed, and frankly, corporate criminals (and there are many) siphon much more money out of the system than a welfare recipient.


9. Speaking of welfare, you want it? Then I have a cup and a bathroom for you.

If we can drug test professional athletes, we can drug test welfare recipients.


10. Cutting loopholes/deductions from the tax code.

I think most people would be on board with simplifying the tax code.


Those are just 10 of my "armchair politician" (what a dynamite phrase) ideas.

Star_Cards
09-14-2011, 03:02 PM
I'd love to see an actual politician pick a person from the opposite party as their running mate.

mrveggieman
09-14-2011, 03:14 PM
How about Obama/Paul in 2012?

marekschwarz33
09-14-2011, 04:32 PM
I could strongly consider ron paul if I thought that he had a fair shot of winning. However even though herman cain has stated that he is in favor of the fair tax he is a complete idiot in my book and I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

Just so you know, Paul does not support a fair tax. He wants to completely eliminate the federal income tax


How about Obama/Paul in 2012?
If Obama picked Paul as a running mate (and was willing to get serious about ending our foriegn expenditures) he would have my vote. That being said, I don't see that happening.

marekschwarz33
09-14-2011, 04:33 PM
Edit: double post...

AUTaxMan
09-14-2011, 05:56 PM
First course of action would be to bring all of our troops home from Iraq and Afganastan. We have been playing around in the desert for almost a decade. We have caught sadam and obl. Time to call it a day.

I tend to agree, but this is easy to say without the intelligence needed to make the call. If there are legitimate national security concerns for staying there, the American public ought to be informed of what they are.


Next order of business would be to abolish the IRS and go to a fair tax system. The tax system as we know now is a complete joke and the more money you make the less taxes you pay. I was reading one fair tax plan were everyone got a $4500 tax rebate at the beginning of the year and taxes would be based on consumption not on some complicated forumla who not even the politicians who write it can understand.

I like the fairtax, but what I underlined above is simply not true. I can educate you if you are interested.


I would also reach our to our muslim neighboors as well as isreal and let them know that there we can either all learn to live together as brothers and sisters or perish together as fools. I got that quote from Dr. MLK Jr. I would have a meeting with all of their leaders and work out a peace plan. It can be done.

Have you not noticed that the Arab Springers whom Obama encouraged to revolt are not exactly interested in co-existing with Israel?


Next order of business would be to invest in education. If we invest more in education we wouldn't have to spend as much on prisons and welfare.

The department of education has been an abysmal failure since the beginning. You want to improve education? Abolish the DOE, give the states an allotment of the billions otherwise wasted by the DOE, and let the states decide how to educate their kids.


Speaking of welfare if you want it and quailify fine. We will give you temporary assistance if you agree to drug and alcohol screening, take manditory job training or college courses and are able willing and available to work. If you don't agree to it fine no one is ever going to force you to take the govt's money.

Agreed.


I would also invest in green technology and research on alternitive fuels. We also need to have healtheir school lunches including vegetarian/vegan options for our students. That way they will be healthy as well as green.

The entire green technology movement is a complete sham. Ever heard of Solyndra?

AUTaxMan
09-14-2011, 05:59 PM
President Pghin08's platform:

1. Entitlement Reform

If you were a male in the 1930s, you retired at age 65. Your life expectancy was about 58. Now the full retirement age is 67, and it's not uncommon to see people living to 90-100. You wanna live longer? You work longer. Raise the retirement age, cut out the $104K cap on Social Security and start means testing some of this crap. Does your 95 year old grandfather want Medicare to pay for his new hip? He's out of luck with me at the helm.

2. Abortion? I'm not even dealing with this. See Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey.

3. Cut some defense department waste.

Though it needs to be carefully done. Yes, defense spending is a large portion of our budget, but that didn't happen by accident. Let's investigate what's working and what's not working, and adjust accordingly.

4. Out of Iraq, still in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan has become strategic for us. The REAL problem is Pakistan, and if the US were to completely abandon Afghanistan, I'm just not sure what would happen.


5. I'll have a Republican veep.

This partisan crap is ridiculous. You want to bring about "change" in Washington, do it. If the administration has two sides represented well, it may set an example.


6. Is our children learning? Absolutely, in my country.

Our education system is in the crapper. We teach to the test, and that's about it. Kids will hate my administration. You will go to school year-round, working in trimesters, with small breaks in between (2-3 weeks max). Kids go to school in this country, have summer vacation, go back to school and spend a significant amount of time RE-learning what they did before summer. That's one of the big reasons we've gotten behind. We're not using our time wisely. With increased time in school, kids will have more time to incorporate the arts and physical education, while maintaining and even expanding math/science/language curriculums.

7. Homeownership is no longer the "American Dream"

Sorry, but not everyone can afford to own a home. See: Germany's housing market.


8. Increased financial regulation.

One of the few government agencies that would evade my cuts would be the SEC. They are WOEFULLY understaffed, and frankly, corporate criminals (and there are many) siphon much more money out of the system than a welfare recipient.


9. Speaking of welfare, you want it? Then I have a cup and a bathroom for you.

If we can drug test professional athletes, we can drug test welfare recipients.


10. Cutting loopholes/deductions from the tax code.

I think most people would be on board with simplifying the tax code.


Those are just 10 of my "armchair politician" (what a dynamite phrase) ideas.

Like most of that.

AUTaxMan
09-14-2011, 06:00 PM
Just so you know, Paul does not support a fair tax. He wants to completely eliminate the federal income tax


If Obama picked Paul as a running mate (and was willing to get serious about ending our foriegn expenditures) he would have my vote. That being said, I don't see that happening.

What is it that you like about Obama?

gatorboymike
09-14-2011, 06:10 PM
The reason why presidents don't pick vice-presidents from the opposing party is because then the opposing party would instantly step into the power if the president died.

marekschwarz33
09-14-2011, 06:46 PM
What is it that you like about Obama?

There is nothing I particularly like about Obama. I just have no like for any of the Republican nominees with the exception of Paul and Gary Johnson (who isn't active in pursing the GOP nomination). I would only vote for Obama if he first nominated Paul (or any Libertarian minded candidate) as a VP and laid out a plan for removing troops not only Iraq and Afghanistan but all around the world (something no GOP candidate would even consider doing). The U.S feels the need to police the world which is wrong and a waste of money in my opinion.

pghin08
09-14-2011, 07:00 PM
The reason why presidents don't pick vice-presidents from the opposing party is because then the opposing party would instantly step into the power if the president died.

So?

mrveggieman
09-15-2011, 08:53 AM
I tend to agree, but this is easy to say without the intelligence needed to make the call. If there are legitimate national security concerns for staying there, the American public ought to be informed of what they are.



I like the fairtax, but what I underlined above is simply not true. I can educate you if you are interested.



Have you not noticed that the Arab Springers whom Obama encouraged to revolt are not exactly interested in co-existing with Israel?



The department of education has been an abysmal failure since the beginning. You want to improve education? Abolish the DOE, give the states an allotment of the billions otherwise wasted by the DOE, and let the states decide how to educate their kids.



Agreed.



The entire green technology movement is a complete sham. Ever heard of Solyndra?


@Markshrwartz I apologize and stand corrected on ron paul's income tax stance

@mrtaxman I would love to hear your spin on the fair tax.

Star_Cards
09-15-2011, 09:52 AM
The reason why presidents don't pick vice-presidents from the opposing party is because then the opposing party would instantly step into the power if the president died.

very true, and any presidential candidate that hinted at doing this would probably be cut out of the running before he knew what hit him by his own party. Just goes back to the problem of them governing as competitors and not teammates.

AUTaxMan
09-15-2011, 09:59 AM
@mrtaxman I would love to hear your spin on the fair tax.

I like the fairtax. Everyone has some skin in the game, making people more aware of the taxes that we all pay. No loopholes. No estate tax. The prebates and the exemption for staples make sure that it isn't regressive.

Problem with the fairtax is that it is a political nightmare. Government likes the fact that we have tax withholding because it numbs us to the amount of taxes that are taken from our paychecks. The fairtax reminds you of the taxes you pay every time you get a receipt. Because of this, politicos (particularly democrats, but big government republicans too) will do all they can to keep our current tax system in place.

mrveggieman
09-15-2011, 10:07 AM
I like the fairtax. Everyone has some skin in the game, making people more aware of the taxes that we all pay. No loopholes. No estate tax. The prebates and the exemption for staples make sure that it isn't regressive.

Problem with the fairtax is that it is a political nightmare. Government likes the fact that we have tax withholding because it numbs us to the amount of taxes that are taken from our paychecks. The fairtax reminds you of the taxes you pay every time you get a receipt. Because of this, politicos (particularly democrats, but big government republicans too) will do all they can to keep our current tax system in place.


Yeah I read up on the fair tax. It is a tax on consumption. No more yearly intrusive tax returns for individuals at the end of the year. Why can't their be a decent presidential canidate from one of the two major parties who has a decent chance of winning be in support of this? Oh well I guess that would be too much like right.

AUTaxMan
09-15-2011, 10:09 AM
Yeah I read up on the fair tax. It is a tax on consumption. No more yearly intrusive tax returns for individuals at the end of the year. Why can't their be a decent presidential canidate from one of the two major parties who has a decent chance of winning be in support of this? Oh well I guess that would be too much like right.

Bachmann and Cain are the only fair tax proponents currently running, and I know how you feel about them.

Star_Cards
09-15-2011, 10:19 AM
Yeah I read up on the fair tax. It is a tax on consumption. No more yearly intrusive tax returns for individuals at the end of the year. Why can't their be a decent presidential canidate from one of the two major parties who has a decent chance of winning be in support of this? Oh well I guess that would be too much like right.

It also would force people dodging taxes (illegals, criminals, any person getting paid under the table) to pay their share when they buy new products. If you want to pay less tax, you just buy less new stuff. It would also get rid of a lot of the IRS. The governmental savings on that alone has to be quite substantial. Companies and individuals would no longer have to pay people to do their taxes. I'm not sure what companies typically spend but has to be a decent amount.

AUTaxMan
09-15-2011, 10:20 AM
And we would all pay a much lower rate.

mrveggieman
09-15-2011, 10:29 AM
Even though we fight over republicans and democrats we can all agree that this would be a benefit. Why cant politicians do what their employers (the people) want them to do instead of what their respective political parties tell them to do?

Star_Cards
09-15-2011, 10:55 AM
because they are afraid that they wouldn't have the control over the tax dollars as they do now. Or the people/corporations that have them in their pockets don't want them to enact it.

mrveggieman
09-15-2011, 11:06 AM
because they are afraid that they wouldn't have the control over the tax dollars as they do now. Or the people/corporations that have them in their pockets don't want them to enact it.


3 words: Campaing Finance Reform

habsheaven
09-15-2011, 11:26 AM
Hang on now. You guys are forgetting a whole list of issues that come along with a consumption tax.

Somebody has to collect the tax and remit it to the government. That task will fall on the already over-stressed small business owner whose costs will rise because he is paying taxes on all the supplies and goods he buys to run his business. Prices will rise before the goods are even taxed for sale to the consumer. The small business owner will have to incur more accounting related costs or find the time to fill out the associated forms the new system will demand.

Somebody will have to oversee the government collection of the tax. So the IRS is going nowhere.

Small business will also have to compete with an ever-growing underground market of goods being sold "tax-free". Their revenues will suffer and so will the projected tax revenue being collected by the government.

The rich will continue to find ways around paying the taxes by funneling purchases through their companies.

Just some things to think about.

pghin08
09-15-2011, 11:28 AM
Hang on now. You guys are forgetting a whole list of issues that come along with a consumption tax.

Somebody has to collect the tax and remit it to the government. That task will fall on the already over-stressed small business owner whose costs will rise because he is paying taxes on all the supplies and goods he buys to run his business. Prices will rise before the goods are even taxed for sale to the consumer. The small business owner will have to incur more accounting related costs or find the time to fill out the associated forms the new system will demand.

Somebody will have to oversee the government collection of the tax. So the IRS is going nowhere.

Small business will also have to compete with an ever-growing underground market of goods being sold "tax-free". Their revenues will suffer and so will the projected tax revenue being collected by the government.

The rich will continue to find ways around paying the taxes by funneling purchases through their companies.

Just some things to think about.


You must be a CPA. Valid points.

habsheaven
09-15-2011, 11:45 AM
You must be a CPA. Valid points.

The canadian equivalent, a CMA actually.

pghin08
09-15-2011, 11:54 AM
The canadian equivalent, a CMA actually.

Very cool. I work for a financial consulting firm, and actually begin my Certified Financial Planner classes tomorrow night. What does the "M" stand for?

AUTaxMan
09-15-2011, 12:01 PM
Hang on now. You guys are forgetting a whole list of issues that come along with a consumption tax.

Somebody has to collect the tax and remit it to the government. That task will fall on the already over-stressed small business owner whose costs will rise because he is paying taxes on all the supplies and goods he buys to run his business. Prices will rise before the goods are even taxed for sale to the consumer. The small business owner will have to incur more accounting related costs or find the time to fill out the associated forms the new system will demand.

Somebody will have to oversee the government collection of the tax. So the IRS is going nowhere.

Small business will also have to compete with an ever-growing underground market of goods being sold "tax-free". Their revenues will suffer and so will the projected tax revenue being collected by the government.

The rich will continue to find ways around paying the taxes by funneling purchases through their companies.

Just some things to think about.

I don't believe the fairtax is a VAT. I think it only applies to retail sales.

habsheaven
09-15-2011, 12:11 PM
Very cool. I work for a financial consulting firm, and actually begin my Certified Financial Planner classes tomorrow night. What does the "M" stand for?

Management

Star_Cards
09-15-2011, 12:11 PM
Hang on now. You guys are forgetting a whole list of issues that come along with a consumption tax.

Somebody has to collect the tax and remit it to the government. That task will fall on the already over-stressed small business owner whose costs will rise because he is paying taxes on all the supplies and goods he buys to run his business. Prices will rise before the goods are even taxed for sale to the consumer. The small business owner will have to incur more accounting related costs or find the time to fill out the associated forms the new system will demand.

Somebody will have to oversee the government collection of the tax. So the IRS is going nowhere.

Small business will also have to compete with an ever-growing underground market of goods being sold "tax-free". Their revenues will suffer and so will the projected tax revenue being collected by the government.

The rich will continue to find ways around paying the taxes by funneling purchases through their companies.

Just some things to think about.

I misspoke. The IRS will not go away. It will reduce. Businesses collect and pay sales tax in almost every state so I'm guessing that process would just have to go national.

habsheaven
09-15-2011, 12:12 PM
I don't believe the fairtax is a VAT. I think it only applies to retail sales.

I wasn't aware of that. Our GST/HST tax up here is. I just assumed it would be.

Star_Cards
09-15-2011, 12:14 PM
link to the Fair Tax site (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main)

habsheaven
09-15-2011, 12:15 PM
Don't get me wrong. I am in favour of consumption taxes over income taxes. It just isn't as rosey a picture as many would believe. Every tax system has its thorns.

habsheaven
09-15-2011, 12:21 PM
link to the Fair Tax site (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main)

Thanks. It may make for some interesting reading tonight.

Star_Cards
09-15-2011, 12:23 PM
I read the first book, but will admit that the effect on businesses isn't completely clear to me.