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bud7562
10-15-2011, 08:28 PM
about time the people do something about the greed to the rich. they getting to much money from the little guy. any body which the rt news about all the portest in ny and around the us and around the world. the rt news is channle 103 ill comcast station??

sanfran22
10-16-2011, 12:50 PM
Lol, I think I'll stay away from this one........;)

duane1969
10-16-2011, 07:10 PM
Man I am totally with you!! We need to take all of the money from these greedy rich people! And the best part is that after we take their money then their stupid businesses and corporations will go bankrupt and all of those stupid middle-class and working poor people won't have jobs anyore. Won't that be great?!!!

Then we can all be a bunch of poor, unemployed losers sitting around singing "We Are the World" waiting for the government check to arrive!! Oh, wait. If the rich people don't have any more money and the middle class and working poor are unemployed, who will pay the taxes that funds our unemployed unproductive lifestyle? Who will the government tax so that we can continue to do nothing with our lives but whine and cry that someone else hasn't made it better for us?

I think I have found a weakness in our master plan...

Hilfiger1975
10-16-2011, 07:34 PM
Man I am totally with you!! We need to take all of the money from these greedy rich people! And the best part is that after we take their money then their stupid businesses and corporations will go bankrupt and all of those stupid middle-class and working poor people won't have jobs anyore. Won't that be great?!!!

Then we can all be a bunch of poor, unemployed losers sitting around singing "We Are the World" waiting for the government check to arrive!! Oh, wait. If the rich people don't have any more money and the middle class and working poor are unemployed, who will pay the taxes that funds our unemployed unproductive lifestyle? Who will the government tax so that we can continue to do nothing with our lives but whine and cry that someone else hasn't made it better for us?

I think I have found a weakness in our master plan...
Or the rich can have people in other countries work for them for cheaper prices and make themselves richer...oops i guess that's already happening, huh? :winking0071: Because you know it's not like 80% of businesses and corporations in America haven't already done that.

So based off what i just said why should i give a rat's fuzzy bottom about rich people, again? And how exactly is businesses and corporations helping middle class and lower class in America by outsourcing jobs, again?

Hilfiger1975
10-16-2011, 07:41 PM
Here i'll answer that question for you...

They're not...

duane1969
10-16-2011, 08:15 PM
Or the rich can have people in other countries work for them for cheaper prices and make themselves richer...oops i guess that's already happening, huh? :winking0071: Because you know it's not like 80% of businesses and corporations in America haven't already done that.

So based off what i just said why should i give a rat's fuzzy bottom about rich people, again? And how exactly is businesses and corporations helping middle class and lower class in America by outsourcing jobs, again?

Call me crazy but I don't see the problem.

1) If I owned a major corporation then I would go where the labor is cheapest. That isn't America. Why criticize them for just being business savvy?

2) Last I checked, the doors were opened to send jobs overseas by a little ditty called NAFTA. Then the creator of NAFTA went and made China (our top competitior in most areas) our most favored trade partner and made it easier for China to send their products over here for us to buy, further weakening our own businesses and forcing them to look for ways to cut production costs (see #1).

Seriously. What are these people the most upset over? Jobs going overseas and companies getting bailed out. Who did those things? Clinton and Obama. Whose fault is it that they are/were in office? The people who are now complaining. Seems a little stupid to me.

jdawg
10-16-2011, 08:18 PM
about time the people do something about the greed to the rich. they getting to much money from the little guy.

lol i was listening to rush limbaugh (sp) and he had one of those protesters he was interviewing and the guy tried telling him he HAD to shop at walmart and he had the RIGHT not to shop there but his cash flow wouldnt allow it...you know what i get so sick of people feeling like they are owed something...im 27 years old and my generation is straight up lazy...im not the richest man but i am self made owner of 2 businesses..i grew up fed and clothed and housed but i didnt wear jordans..i wore everlasts lol..i was determined to make something of myself..i worked 80-90 hours a week for 2-3 years until i could finally afford to pay someone to help out and then it only went down to 60 hours a week..but as i became more profitable i could hire people to do the work and it go to where i could hire a full time manager for a store and venture out to start the next business. with the govt just handing out freebies like welfare and such to those who dont need it..(my sister makes 50 grand a year and has 2 kids and the govt found it in their infinite wisdom to give her welfare) anyways lol people whining and crying about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer...theres a reason for that..if these protesters would stop crying about what they dont have and put the effort into starting a business(i started mine with 150 dollars and a 1996 chevy truck) so i know it can be done. they would have something to be proud of...give them a million bucks and they will be broke in 2-5 years and crying about the rich again anyways lol

duane1969
10-16-2011, 08:22 PM
lol i was listening to rush limbaugh (sp) and he had one of those protesters he was interviewing and the guy tried telling him he HAD to shop at walmart and he had the RIGHT not to shop there but his cash flow wouldnt allow it...you know what i get so sick of people feeling like they are owed something...im 27 years old and my generation is straight up lazy...im not the richest man but i am self made owner of 2 businesses..i grew up fed and clothed and housed but i didnt wear jordans..i wore everlasts lol..i was determined to make something of myself..i worked 80-90 hours a week for 2-3 years until i could finally afford to pay someone to help out and then it only went down to 60 hours a week..but as i became more profitable i could hire people to do the work and it go to where i could hire a full time manager for a store and venture out to start the next business. with the govt just handing out freebies like welfare and such to those who dont need it..(my sister makes 50 grand a year and has 2 kids and the govt found it in their infinite wisdom to give her welfare) anyways lol people whining and crying about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer...theres a reason for that..if these protesters would stop crying about what they dont have and put the effort into starting a business(i started mine with 150 dollars and a 1996 chevy truck) so i know it can be done. they would have something to be proud of...give them a million bucks and they will be broke in 2-5 years and crying about the rich again anyways lol

Church!!!! (veggie will love this LOL)

jdawg
10-16-2011, 08:24 PM
about time the people do something about the greed to the rich. they getting to much money from the little guy.

lol people dont make you eat at mcdonalds, or shop at walmart, or heck even wipe with toilet paper..those big businesses are there as a convienence to us we choose to use them..i cant think of one major business that we have to have to survive...its our choice to use their products and pad their pockets..if you were the owner of a major business you would feel different...

jdawg
10-16-2011, 08:27 PM
Church!!!! (veggie will love this LOL)

huh? lol i just get sick and tired of people whining and crying about their situations instead of changing their situations..people need to realize in american you dont have the right to be happy...you have the right to pursue happiness

duane1969
10-16-2011, 08:52 PM
huh? lol i just get sick and tired of people whining and crying about their situations instead of changing their situations..people need to realize in american you dont have the right to be happy...you have the right to pursue happiness

By "church" I meant that I agreed. mrveggieman usually says "Church!" when he agrees so I figure he will get a kick out of me stealing it :)

Hilfiger1975
10-16-2011, 08:58 PM
Call me crazy but I don't see the problem.

1) If I owned a major corporation then I would go where the labor is cheapest. That isn't America. Why criticize them for just being business savvy?

2) Last I checked, the doors were opened to send jobs overseas by a little ditty called NAFTA. Then the creator of NAFTA went and made China (our top competitior in most areas) our most favored trade partner and made it easier for China to send their products over here for us to buy, further weakening our own businesses and forcing them to look for ways to cut production costs (see #1).

Seriously. What are these people the most upset over? Jobs going overseas and companies getting bailed out. Who did those things? Clinton and Obama. Whose fault is it that they are/were in office? The people who are now complaining. Seems a little stupid to me.
And that is ONE of the reasons why America is where it's at right now. Because people don't see the problem with outsourcing jobs...my conversation about this is over...

bud7562
10-16-2011, 09:14 PM
Call me crazy but I don't see the problem.

1) If I owned a major corporation then I would go where the labor is cheapest. That isn't America. Why criticize them for just being business savvy?

2) Last I checked, the doors were opened to send jobs overseas by a little ditty called NAFTA. Then the creator of NAFTA went and made China (our top competitior in most areas) our most favored trade partner and made it easier for China to send their products over here for us to buy, further weakening our own businesses and forcing them to look for ways to cut production costs (see #1).

Seriously. What are these people the most upset over? Jobs going overseas and companies getting bailed out. Who did those things? Clinton and Obama. Whose fault is it that they are/were in office? The people who are now complaining. Seems a little stupid to me. even the small business going to feel it too, about the jobs and the ins.,and every thing eles what the rich are doing. not enough jobs in this country.

jdawg
10-16-2011, 09:22 PM
By "church" I meant that I agreed. mrveggieman usually says "Church!" when he agrees so I figure he will get a kick out of me stealing it :)

ahhh lol

and about the outsourcing of jobs..i own a scrap yard..and i recently was hired to clean out a factory that had recently closed..now they didnt close because the economy was hitting them hard..they closed because of the union..they had 15 days a year they could call and say reason beyond my control and they couldnt get in trouble for missing work..along with all holidays. they were making close to 55 dollars an hour (thats with their benefits added in other wise 20-22) and they still werent happy they wanted 20 days instead of 15 and wanted 60 instead of 55..well the owner decided to close the factory and move it to india..he didnt outsource the job...the greedy union members outsourced their own jobs..they had it made and now they all unemployed...its not just the top rich guys who are greedy..

texansrangerfan73
10-16-2011, 09:29 PM
Do you guys ever watch that segment on ABC Nightly news called "Made in America?" I really dig that segment & I for one try to buy most of my needs that are made in the U.S.A. call me American or what ever but it only takes less than a few second to turn the item around to check if it's made here or abroad & it's worth my time to keep my fellow Americans employed rather they make $7.25 an hour or $14.37 an hour. Rather they get any assistance with their food or electric bills or they don't need to.

BTW support America please buy American made goods if you can!!!

jaybird_1981
10-16-2011, 10:33 PM
I never understood the thought process behind villifying the rich. I mean these protestors sure aren't creating jobs.

INTIMADATOR2007
10-16-2011, 10:46 PM
It seems the orginizer in chief ,the one really behind this mob of folks has extended his approval of people rioting in the streets and bringing trouble throughout this country , Kinda by design if you follow the people he hangs with . How can a president of the united states lend his support to this ? .I respect there right to protest 100% but when they are causing havoc he should step in and put the fire out , However he is just ramping these folks up. I have yet to see an informative interview as to what these people want other than to collapse the system whch falls right in line with Obama's plan .
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/052226f8-f80c-11e0-a419-00144feab49a.html#axzz1azlbH4rO

INTIMADATOR2007
10-16-2011, 10:58 PM
Or the rich can have people in other countries work for them for cheaper prices and make themselves richer...oops i guess that's already happening, huh? :winking0071: Because you know it's not like 80% of businesses and corporations in America haven't already done that.

So based off what i just said why should i give a rat's fuzzy bottom about rich people, again? And how exactly is businesses and corporations helping middle class and lower class in America by outsourcing jobs, again?
Im gonna suggest when you go to work monday you go to your boss and ask him are you rich , will you have my paycheck on friday so you can pay your bills and buy your food , when he says yes your check will be there tell him you quit because you hate the rich .

INTIMADATOR2007
10-16-2011, 11:04 PM
I never understood the thought process behind villifying the rich. I mean these protestors sure aren't creating jobs.
Sure they are creating jobs , Just think of all the jobs that will be needed to clean up after these people get tired of not having thier demands met this is just another way of Obama creating jobs . Before its over there will be a ton of glass to replace and buildings to repaint and think of the jail staffers getting all that overtime from thousands of arrest , Just an extention of Obama's jobs bill.

The big difference Between Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party would be Jail Space !

jaybird_1981
10-16-2011, 11:06 PM
Sure they are creating jobs , Just think of all the jobs that will be needed to clean up after these people get tired of not having thier demands met this is just another way of Obama creating jobs . Before its over there will be a ton of glass to replace and buildings to repaint and think of the jail staffers getting all that overtime from thousands of arrest , Just an extention of Obama's jobs bill.

The big difference Between Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party would be Jail Space !

Yeah from some of the pictures I have seen it looks like they are causing quite the mess.

ensbergcollector
10-16-2011, 11:07 PM
ahhh lol

and about the outsourcing of jobs..i own a scrap yard..and i recently was hired to clean out a factory that had recently closed..now they didnt close because the economy was hitting them hard..they closed because of the union..they had 15 days a year they could call and say reason beyond my control and they couldnt get in trouble for missing work..along with all holidays. they were making close to 55 dollars an hour (thats with their benefits added in other wise 20-22) and they still werent happy they wanted 20 days instead of 15 and wanted 60 instead of 55..well the owner decided to close the factory and move it to india..he didnt outsource the job...the greedy union members outsourced their own jobs..they had it made and now they all unemployed...its not just the top rich guys who are greedy..

+1. well said

INTIMADATOR2007
10-16-2011, 11:07 PM
Man I am totally with you!! We need to take all of the money from these greedy rich people! And the best part is that after we take their money then their stupid businesses and corporations will go bankrupt and all of those stupid middle-class and working poor people won't have jobs anyore. Won't that be great?!!!

Then we can all be a bunch of poor, unemployed losers sitting around singing "We Are the World" waiting for the government check to arrive!! Oh, wait. If the rich people don't have any more money and the middle class and working poor are unemployed, who will pay the taxes that funds our unemployed unproductive lifestyle? Who will the government tax so that we can continue to do nothing with our lives but whine and cry that someone else hasn't made it better for us?

I think I have found a weakness in our master plan...
Well Said !

INTIMADATOR2007
10-16-2011, 11:10 PM
even the small business going to feel it too, about the jobs and the ins.,and every thing eles what the rich are doing. not enough jobs in this country.
"about the jobs and the ins.,and every thing eles what the rich are doing. not enough jobs in this country. "

you may want to go over your presidents policys on these matters and youll find the source of the problem .

INTIMADATOR2007
10-16-2011, 11:28 PM
Look who else is throwing thier support behind the protest, How nice of them ..

The (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)Communist Party USA (http://www.cpusa.org/) also supports the (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)Obama-endorsed (http://www.forextv.com/forex-news-story/president-obama-endorses-occupy-wall-street-protesters-looking-to-politicize-anger) Occupy Wall Street Protests.
(http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/cpusa-ows.jpg (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)
(http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)







http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-nazi-party-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street-movement/

duane1969
10-17-2011, 08:42 AM
The term "buying American" is contradictory. You would be hard pressed to find anything that is "made in America" that does not have parts or componenets made in another country.

A t-shirt or jeans made in America? Sure. But take a look at just your personal self. That cell phone in your pocket, that car alarm/auto start key fob on your key ring, that watch on your wrist, the computer/smart phone that you are accessing this website with...very little is truly made in America. Even Harley-Davidson motorcycles have parts that were produced in foreign countries.

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 08:59 AM
Call me crazy but I don't see the problem.

1) If I owned a major corporation then I would go where the labor is cheapest. That isn't America. Why criticize them for just being business savvy?

2) Last I checked, the doors were opened to send jobs overseas by a little ditty called NAFTA. Then the creator of NAFTA went and made China (our top competitior in most areas) our most favored trade partner and made it easier for China to send their products over here for us to buy, further weakening our own businesses and forcing them to look for ways to cut production costs (see #1).

Seriously. What are these people the most upset over? Jobs going overseas and companies getting bailed out. Who did those things? Clinton and Obama. Whose fault is it that they are/were in office? The people who are now complaining. Seems a little stupid to me.

Check again! NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) has nothing to do with China or Clinton or Obama. I believe it was signed into law by George HW Bush.

I love how you jump from NAFTA to China to the Dems all in one post. Are you purposely trying to mislead people or just grossly misinformed?

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 09:21 AM
The term "buying American" is contradictory. You would be hard pressed to find anything that is "made in America" that does not have parts or componenets made in another country.

A t-shirt or jeans made in America? Sure. But take a look at just your personal self. That cell phone in your pocket, that car alarm/auto start key fob on your key ring, that watch on your wrist, the computer/smart phone that you are accessing this website with...very little is truly made in America. Even Harley-Davidson motorcycles have parts that were produced in foreign countries.

You are correct on this. You would have a hard time finding true made in America. A lot of stuff is assembled in America with foreign parts i.e. cars, clothing ect.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 09:23 AM
Check again! NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) has nothing to do with China or Clinton or Obama. I believe it was signed into law by George HW Bush.

I love how you jump from NAFTA to China to the Dems all in one post. Are you purposely trying to mislead people or just grossly misinformed?

No , it was signed into law by Clinton but I think it dealt with Canada, America and Mexico.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nafta-signed-into-law

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 09:57 AM
While I won't agree that we need to something about rich people, it is time that we do something to keep corporations out of the reach of politicians. For far to long corporations and wealthy have had politicians in their pockets, influencing things like tax codes. I'm a fan of the free market and capitalism, but at some point the back scratching between politicians and the wealthy/corporations needs to be checked.

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 09:59 AM
Call me crazy but I don't see the problem.

1) If I owned a major corporation then I would go where the labor is cheapest. That isn't America. Why criticize them for just being business savvy?

2) Last I checked, the doors were opened to send jobs overseas by a little ditty called NAFTA. Then the creator of NAFTA went and made China (our top competitior in most areas) our most favored trade partner and made it easier for China to send their products over here for us to buy, further weakening our own businesses and forcing them to look for ways to cut production costs (see #1).

Seriously. What are these people the most upset over? Jobs going overseas and companies getting bailed out. Who did those things? Clinton and Obama. Whose fault is it that they are/were in office? The people who are now complaining. Seems a little stupid to me.

not to stick up for clinton, but I think it was bush and obama that were in office during the most noted bail outs/TARP plans.

jdawg
10-17-2011, 10:06 AM
i could be greedy and say well my corporation creating more stable jobs and is doing more for the country when it comes to being green then sylindra(sp) did.we clean up the country side, old farms, old companies of all their metals and recycle them..id bet my whole life that someone on the sportscardforum is driving a car that had metal recycled melted and recasted or struck from some metal that i have recycled...half a billion dollars and bankrupt the next year..such the biggest slush fund i have ever seen...how much of that ended up right back in obamas war chest for reelection..i bet a pretty penny...we need to get this guy out and ask anyone i was touting this guy as a failure since he first got elected...yes im a republican..and voted for john mccain..but thats neither here nor there..the great martin luther king jr once said judge me by the content of my character and not the color of my skin..well obama being elected showed people didnt take his words to heart and elected him on the color of his skin and not the content of his character

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 10:06 AM
And that is ONE of the reasons why America is where it's at right now. Because people don't see the problem with outsourcing jobs...my conversation about this is over...

corporations don't answer to a nation. they answer to shareholders and if they can cut costs by outsourcing jobs they will. It's usually a product of higher costs of other aspects of their business costs like gas, shipping, or other items they have to purchase to produce their products. I'd bet that in some industries, unions are another cause for outsourcing. It's ironic that sometimes an entity fighting for workers rights can push too much and help lose the exact jobs they were trying so hard to protect.

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 10:20 AM
Look who else is throwing thier support behind the protest, How nice of them ..

The (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)Communist Party USA (http://www.cpusa.org/) also supports the (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)Obama-endorsed (http://www.forextv.com/forex-news-story/president-obama-endorses-occupy-wall-street-protesters-looking-to-politicize-anger) Occupy Wall Street Protests.
(http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/cpusa-ows.jpg (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)
(http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-communist-party-usa-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street/cpusa-ows/)







http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-nazi-party-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street-movement/

Very nice job linking Obamas name to nazis and communists. lol.

also, supporting a person or groups right to protest and understanding their frustrations about bailing out companies that helped cause financial meltdown is quite a bit different than supporting the cause itself. I'd think any president would support a groups right to protest.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 10:22 AM
Very nice job linking Obamas name to nazis and communists. lol.

also, supporting a person or groups right to protest and understanding their frustrations about bailing out companies that helped cause financial meltdown is quite a bit different than supporting the cause itself. I'd think any president would support a groups right to protest.

Is that what the president is supporting?

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 10:26 AM
i could be greedy and say well my corporation creating more stable jobs and is doing more for the country when it comes to being green then sylindra(sp) did.we clean up the country side, old farms, old companies of all their metals and recycle them..id bet my whole life that someone on the sportscardforum is driving a car that had metal recycled melted and recasted or struck from some metal that i have recycled...half a billion dollars and bankrupt the next year..such the biggest slush fund i have ever seen...how much of that ended up right back in obamas war chest for reelection..i bet a pretty penny...we need to get this guy out and ask anyone i was touting this guy as a failure since he first got elected...yes im a republican..and voted for john mccain..but thats neither here nor there..the great martin luther king jr once said judge me by the content of my character and not the color of my skin..well obama being elected showed people didnt take his words to heart and elected him on the color of his skin and not the content of his character

you really think people voted for obama because of the color of his skin? I'm sure there were some, just as I'm sure there were some that didn't vote for him because of the color of his skin. I'm willing to bet that the majority of voters voted for him due to what they thought he could do for the country.

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 10:35 AM
No , it was signed into law by Clinton but I think it dealt with Canada, America and Mexico.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nafta-signed-into-law

Okay, technically it was signed into law by Clinton but only because Bush didn't have time to do so. Bush signed the initial agreement between the 3 countries a year earlier.

texansrangerfan73
10-17-2011, 10:36 AM
Of course not everything can come from America such as componets & some raw materials but everything made in China isn't from China either but if I can buy a product that is finished in an American manufacturing plant is good to me. If we could have everything we need from start to finish a product then there would be no need for Global Trade right? So for me I WILL continue to buy things labeled Made in U.S.A.. FYI our sportscards are made in America so thanks for buying!!

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/page/map-find-made-america-goods-13917383

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 10:44 AM
i could be greedy and say well my corporation creating more stable jobs and is doing more for the country when it comes to being green then sylindra(sp) did.we clean up the country side, old farms, old companies of all their metals and recycle them..id bet my whole life that someone on the sportscardforum is driving a car that had metal recycled melted and recasted or struck from some metal that i have recycled...half a billion dollars and bankrupt the next year..such the biggest slush fund i have ever seen...how much of that ended up right back in obamas war chest for reelection..i bet a pretty penny...we need to get this guy out and ask anyone i was touting this guy as a failure since he first got elected...yes im a republican..and voted for john mccain..but thats neither here nor there..the great martin luther king jr once said judge me by the content of my character and not the color of my skin..well obama being elected showed people didnt take his words to heart and elected him on the color of his skin and not the content of his character


Dude you really think that the only reason Obama got elected was because he is black? Last I checked blacks are a minority in the united states accounting for only 12-15 percent of the population. Let's assume that every black person voted for Obama even though that would be impossible because some of them were not able to vote, did not vote, etc. But assuming that they did where did the rest of his votes come from? Did white people vote for him out of self hatred? Your logic is completely flawed my friend.

bud7562
10-17-2011, 10:52 AM
corporations don't answer to a nation. they answer to shareholders and if they can cut costs by outsourcing jobs they will. It's usually a product of higher costs of other aspects of their business costs like gas, shipping, or other items they have to purchase to produce their products. I'd bet that in some industries, unions are another cause for outsourcing. It's ironic that sometimes an entity fighting for workers rights can push too much and help lose the exact jobs they were trying so hard to protect. the corporations pay not enough taxs and the little guy pay too much taxs. you can not keep your house and pay all your bills on $8.00 per hr, than what can you do?????

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 10:55 AM
the corporations pay not enough taxs and the little guy pay too much taxs. you can not keep your house and pay all your bills on $8.00 per hr, than what can you do?????


Church!! :cheer2:

texansrangerfan73
10-17-2011, 11:02 AM
the corporations pay not enough taxs and the little guy pay too much taxs. you can not keep your house and pay all your bills on $8.00 per hr, than what can you do?????

This is true. I can't help but think that Herman Cain 9-9-9 tax plan sounds good! Warren Buffet evens says that the millionaires should pay more taxes & that he can't understand why his secretary pays more in taxes than he does.

duane1969
10-17-2011, 11:28 AM
Prove me wrong. <br />
<br />
You always charge in to tell me how wrong I am and you never have anything but your own baseless opinion to back up your accusation. Then I provide proof to support my statement...

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 11:33 AM
Of course not everything can come from America such as componets & some raw materials but everything made in China isn't from China either but if I can buy a product that is finished in an American manufacturing plant is good to me. If we could have everything we need from start to finish a product then there would be no need for Global Trade right? So for me I WILL continue to buy things labeled Made in U.S.A.. FYI our sportscards are made in America so thanks for buying!!

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/page/map-find-made-america-goods-13917383

Well, technically I only buy "made in America" cars. I have Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans...;)

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 11:34 AM
the corporations pay not enough taxs and the little guy pay too much taxs. you can not keep your house and pay all your bills on $8.00 per hr, than what can you do?????

At 8.00 an hour you probably shouldn't have a house. Raise the taxes of all the corporations and lmk what happens. Some things need to change, I agree. But probably not what you are suggesting.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 11:35 AM
This is true. I can't help but think that Herman Cain 9-9-9 tax plan sounds good! Warren Buffet evens says that the millionaires should pay more taxes & that he can't understand why his secretary pays more in taxes than he does.

I'd bet she doesn't pay more. But I'd be for looking at Cains plan for sure.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/sep/21/does-secretary-pay-higher-taxes-millionaire/

duane1969
10-17-2011, 11:49 AM
not to stick up for clinton, but I think it was bush and obama that were in office during the most noted bail outs/TARP plans.

I wasn't saying that Clinton initiated TARP/ARRA funding. Clinton did NAFTA and China, Obama bears the responsibility for the trillions invested in ARRA.

With that said, the TARP program that GWB signed back in 2008 had an original estimated budget of $300 billion and came in at around an actual $245 billion, $179 billion of which has already been paid back to the Fed. So if the Wall Street thing is over the remaining $66 billion from the Bush TARP bailout then that is a lot of hoopla over a small amount of money (compared to what the government spends/waste regularly).

Also, considering Obama is the guy who said that he was going to fix everything and create jobs why is it that these Wall Street people have no issue with him?

AUTaxMan
10-17-2011, 12:00 PM
It's quite hypocritical to blame the outsourcing of jobs on corporate greed. We as consumers demand lower prices. Because of this, companies must outsource jobs to maintain competitiveness in the marketplace. If you want to complain about the outsourcing of American jobs, I suggest that only buy goods and services made in America, regardless of the cost. Otherwise, your complaint isn't really about principle, it's about politics.

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 12:01 PM
Nice attempt at distracting. I know what NAFTA is. I do not need to prove anything. LOOK IT UP for yourself!!! Or are you AFRAID to find out yourself. It has nothing to do with CHINA. <br />
<br />
And...

duane1969
10-17-2011, 12:02 PM
A little further expansion on where my "misleading" idea that Obama has hurt American companies with his international trade deals and policies.

A part of Obama's ARRA package included the "Buy America" provision which required that all government ARRA contracts use American made products for construction. Sounds good. Then the Canadians complained. It seems that if our contractors bought American made products then it would hurt the Canadian economy (NAFTA anyone?). So Obama did the "right thing" and signed an exemption agreement that protected the Canadian businesses and economy.

So let me make sure I clarify for those who miss the obvious...

A portion of ARRA funds, which are supposed to help America recover (American Recovery & Reinvestment Act) are actually being used to buy Canadian products and support the Canadian economy thanks to Obama's pacifying exemption.

duane1969
10-17-2011, 12:07 PM
Nice attempt at distracting. I know what NAFTA is. I do not need to prove anything. LOOK IT UP for yourself!!! Or are you AFRAID to find out yourself. It has nothing to do with CHINA.

And what sources am I discrediting?? Did you provide a source? Are you the SOURCE? :scared0012:

I am fully aware that NAFTA and China are not related. You came up with that all on your own. I never said that.

If you actually read my post instead of doing the GBM thing and stop twisting what people say into something they didn't say then you would see that.

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 12:09 PM
A little further expansion on where my "misleading" idea that Obama has hurt American companies with his international trade deals and policies.

A part of Obama's ARRA package included the "Buy America" provision which required that all government ARRA contracts use American made products for construction. Sounds good. Then the Canadians complained. It seems that if our contractors bought American made products then it would hurt the Canadian economy (NAFTA anyone?). So Obama did the right thing and signed an exemption agreement that protected the Canadian businesses and economy.

So let me make sure I clarify for those who miss the obvious...

A portion of ARRA funds, which are supposed to help America recover (American Recovery & Reinvestment Act) are actually being used to buy Canadian products and support the Canadian economy thanks to Obama's pacifying exemption.

Here I go again. You mention NAFTA, so you must know that the ARRA is a direct violation of the terms of NAFTA. Obama had no other choice but to pacify the Canadians with an exemption. Or are you saying Americans should DISHONOUR their agreements?

bud7562
10-17-2011, 12:10 PM
At 8.00 an hour you probably shouldn't have a house. Raise the taxes of all the corporations and lmk what happens. Some things need to change, I agree. But probably not what you are suggesting. i was makeing over 19.00 an hr. show me a job that pays that much, working in a factor ?????

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 12:13 PM
I am fully aware that NAFTA and China are not related. You came up with that all on your own. I never said that.

If you actually read my post instead of doing the GBM thing and stop twisting what people say into something they didn't say then you would see that.

I read your post. Perhaps you need to learn to express your ideas more clearly. Anyone who doesn't know what NAFTA is, would think that the three; NAFTA, CHINA and the DEMOCRATIC presidents are all connected. That was your implication.

duane1969
10-17-2011, 12:16 PM
I see the problem as far as how it impacts our economy. I am sorry if I upset you but the reality is that it is contradictory to our government and society to start dictating who companies have to...

AUTaxMan
10-17-2011, 12:18 PM
Yes. Our country was founded on the principle that the government's role in everyday life should be limited to the smallest extent possible. Unfortunately, the liberals over the past 150 years have...

duane1969
10-17-2011, 12:30 PM
I read your post. Perhaps you need to learn to express your ideas more clearly. Anyone who doesn't know what NAFTA is, would think that the three; NAFTA, CHINA and the DEMOCRATIC presidents are all connected. That was your implication.

I am not implying diddly, it is fact.

NAFTA - Clinton signed it into law and considers it his first major accomplishment as president
China most favored nation - Clinton proposed it to Congress and fought for it

I am confused as to how you think they are not connected to Democratic a president...

duane1969
10-17-2011, 12:31 PM
Yes. Our country was founded on the principle that the government's role in everyday life should be limited to the smallest extent possible. Unfortunately, the liberals over the past 150 years have perverted and ignored this original intent to the greatest extent possible.

I am not going to put that on liberals. There are plenty of ways that conservatives have taken away freedoms and imposed themselves into situations.

AUTaxMan
10-17-2011, 12:39 PM
I am not going to put that on liberals. There are plenty of ways that conservatives have taken away freedoms and imposed themselves into situations.

You should put it largely on the liberals. Sure, republicans have somewhat contributed to this over time, but it's not even close to a 50/50 split. More like 90/10.

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 12:42 PM
I am not implying diddly, it is fact.

NAFTA - Clinton signed it into law and considers it his first major accomplishment as president
China most favored nation - Clinton proposed it to Congress and fought for it

I am confused as to how you think they are not connected to Democratic a president...

NAFTA was a sweet deal for the Americans so I am not surprised that Clinton tried to take credit for it. Fact remains, almost all of the negotiations were done during the Bush presidency. Bush signed the deal with Mulroney (Canadian PM) and the Mexican president of the day before Clinton came into office.

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 01:17 PM
You should put it largely on the liberals. Sure, republicans have somewhat contributed to this over time, but it's not even close to a 50/50 split. More like 90/10.

Wow mrtaxman you sound like an nba owner.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 01:18 PM
Wow mrtaxman you sound like an nba owner.

The owners are getting a 90/10 split??

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 01:41 PM
The owners are getting a 90/10 split??


If they had their way they would.

jdawg
10-17-2011, 02:04 PM
you really think people voted for obama because of the color of his skin? I'm sure there were some, just as I'm sure there were some that didn't vote for him because of the color of his skin. I'm willing to bet that the majority of voters voted for him due to what they thought he could do for the country.

ummm yeah i really do think he was voted because he was black...ill bet most blacks voted for him..lol i once saw a video on youtube i thought of a black man being interviewed and asked why he voted for obama..and the guys response was because mr odama...yes he didnt even know the guys name correct...tell me he voted on merit

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 02:06 PM
ummm yeah i really do think he was voted because he was black...ill bet most blacks voted for him..lol i once saw a video on youtube i thought of a black man being interviewed and asked why he voted for obama..and the guys response was because mr odama...yes he didnt even know the guys name correct...tell me he voted on merit
Don't people do the same thing when they vote for Republican or Democrat?

jdawg
10-17-2011, 02:08 PM
Don't people do the same thing when they vote for Republican or Democrat?

if im voting i know the candidates name im voting for..no most people like myself vote on past actions of the person...not what i assume they can do..i just hope the next republican presidential candidate wears his "change" tshirts that made obama popular

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 02:11 PM
no most people like myself vote on past actions of the person...not what i assume they can do..i just hope the next republican presidential candidate wears his "change" tshirts that made obama popular
I'm confused. Don't people vote base on if they're Republican or Democrat regardless of who the person is? Because i'm seeing a lot of hypocritical statements being posted here. My personal opinion is Obama was made famous of being a Democrat nothing more...

AUTaxMan
10-17-2011, 02:31 PM
Wow mrtaxman you sound like an nba owner.

I'm not really sure what that means.

duane1969
10-17-2011, 02:37 PM
NAFTA was a sweet deal for the Americans so I am not surprised that Clinton tried to take credit for it. Fact remains, almost all of the negotiations were done during the Bush presidency. Bush signed the deal with Mulroney (Canadian PM) and the Mexican president of the day before Clinton came into office.

But it was just that, an agreement. Agreements are nothing more than saying "This is what we want to do and will do if we can make it happen." Until it becomes law it is worth nothing more than the paper it is written on.

Quite frankly, I think NAFTA has helped all involved, regardless of who created it or signed it. However, I fully believe that NAFTA was the catalyst that set the stage for outsourcing of jobs. When NAFTA took effect American companies were sending work to Mexico faster than Mexicans were hopping to border to come to America. It snowballed after that.


I'm confused. Don't people vote base on if they're Republican or Democrat regardless of who the person is? Because i'm seeing a lot of hypocritical statements being posted here. My personal opinion is Obama was made famous of being a Democrat nothing more...

Awww come on. every Tom, Dick and Harry that could get their face on TV for 5 seconds was spouting off about how far our country had come now that we were on the verge of our first black president.

I am not saying that Obama was elected only because he was black, but it helped.

If Obama had been a white man with just 2 years of experience as a senator and ties to a minister who spouted off racial slurs and put down America he wouldn't have even been allowed on the Democratic ticket, much less been a viable candidate.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 02:42 PM
But it was just that, an agreement. Agreements are nothing more than saying "This is what we want to do and will do if we can make it happen." Until it becomes law it is worth nothing more than the paper it is written on.

Quite frankly, I think NAFTA has helped all involved, regardless of who created it or signed it. However, I fully believe that NAFTA was the catalyst that set the stage for outsourcing of jobs. When NAFTA took effect American companies were sending work to Mexico faster than Mexicans were hopping to border to come to America. It snowballed after that.



Awww come on. every Tom, Dick and Harry that could get their face on TV for 5 seconds was spouting off about how far our country had come now that we were on the verge of our first black president.

I am not saying that Obama was elected only because he was black, but it helped.

If Obama had been a white man with just 2 years of experience as a senator and ties to a minister who spouted off racial slurs and put down America he wouldn't have even been allowed on the Democratic ticket, much less been a viable candidate.

I'm not so sure of that, they do have Harry Reid and Robert Byrd....:winking0071:

duane1969
10-17-2011, 02:47 PM
I'm not so sure of that, they do have Harry Reid and Robert Byrd....:winking0071:

Neither of which was ever a presidential candidate that I am aware of.

Besides, Reid and Byrd are just the Democrat version of Affirmative Action LOL

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 02:47 PM
But it was just that, an agreement. Agreements are nothing more than saying "This is what we want to do and will do if we can make it happen." Until it becomes law it is worth nothing more than the paper it is written on.

Quite frankly, I think NAFTA has helped all involved, regardless of who created it or signed it. However, I fully believe that NAFTA was the catalyst that set the stage for outsourcing of jobs. When NAFTA took effect American companies were sending work to Mexico faster than Mexicans were hopping to border to come to America. It snowballed after that.



Awww come on. every Tom, Dick and Harry that could get their face on TV for 5 seconds was spouting off about how far our country had come now that we were on the verge of our first black president.

I am not saying that Obama was elected only because he was black, but it helped.

If Obama had been a white man with just 2 years of experience as a senator and ties to a minister who spouted off racial slurs and put down America he wouldn't have even been allowed on the Democratic ticket, much less been a viable candidate.

Sorry duane but I'm going to have to disagree with you. President Obama won despite the fact that he is black. He was clearly the better of the two choices and the people that voted fot put aside their hangups about color and put the best man in the seat. You don't think that the powers that be didn't try every possible dirty tatic to bring him down? Yes there is an element of society that will vote for or against someone solely based on race but that clearly did not happen in '08 since blacks only make up a small percentage of the american public and an even smaller percentage of registered voters.

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 02:54 PM
I wasn't saying that Clinton initiated TARP/ARRA funding. Clinton did NAFTA and China, Obama bears the responsibility for the trillions invested in ARRA.

With that said, the TARP program that GWB signed back in 2008 had an original estimated budget of $300 billion and came in at around an actual $245 billion, $179 billion of which has already been paid back to the Fed. So if the Wall Street thing is over the remaining $66 billion from the Bush TARP bailout then that is a lot of hoopla over a small amount of money (compared to what the government spends/waste regularly).

Also, considering Obama is the guy who said that he was going to fix everything and create jobs why is it that these Wall Street people have no issue with him?

Both bush and obama had bailouts. I liked none of them. Just found it interesting how you left the Rep who started one out of the list.

duane1969
10-17-2011, 02:56 PM
Sorry duane but I'm going to have to disagree with you. President Obama won despite the fact that he is black. He was clearly the better of the two choices and the people that voted fot put aside their hangups about color and put the best man in the seat. You don't think that the powers that be didn't try every possible dirty tatic to bring him down? Yes there is an element of society that will vote for or against someone solely based on race but that clearly did not happen in '08 since blacks only make up a small percentage of the american public and an even smaller percentage of registered voters.

Just like there are people who vote against someone solely because of race/religion/political party there are those who vote for someone based solely on the same reasons. I do not believe that Obama was elected solely because he is black but I am sure that some people voted for him simply because he was black or simply to avoid appearing to be racist for not voting for him.

My honest opinion is that he got the Democratic nomination because of popularity and that he won the presidential election because America hoped he wouldn't be worse than McCain. However, there is no doubt in my mind that he got a free pass on some issues that a white man would not have gotten.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 02:56 PM
Neither of which was ever a presidential candidate that I am aware of.

Besides, Reid and Byrd are just the Democrat version of Affirmative Action LOL

But they could have been w/o objections was my point. They are in the party and are well thought of.

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 02:59 PM
the corporations pay not enough taxs and the little guy pay too much taxs. you can not keep your house and pay all your bills on $8.00 per hr, than what can you do?????

don't get me wrong. I'm not pro corporations, but if the conditions in the US cause them to leave for employees to be profitable then something needs to be figured out how to keep them here. I have no clue what the answer is. I think it's crazy when corporations pay little or zero taxes because they get breaks because the provide jobs. At this point, tax breaks are the major way they try to keep businesses happy. The thing is, some get tax breaks and still outsource. I get that the system is flawed but not sure how to fix.

duane1969
10-17-2011, 02:59 PM
Both bush and obama had bailouts. I liked none of them. Just found it interesting how you left the Rep who started one out of the list.

I wasn't leaving one off. The Bush bailout was a fraction of the Obama one and most of it has been paid back. If the people on Wall Street are protesting bailouts then I hope they are smart enough to protest the one that we are $2 trillion in the hole on and not the one that we are $66 billion in the hole on.

duane1969
10-17-2011, 03:00 PM
But they could have been w/o objections was my point. They are in the party and are well thought of.

Reid, yes. Byrd, no.

Byrd's history of being an outspoken racist would have killed him at the polls. He never would have made it close to the White House.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 03:01 PM
Reid, yes. Byrd, no.

Byrd's history of being an outspoken racist would have killed him at the polls. He never would have made it close to the White House.

Neither of them should make it close, but that wasn't my point.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 03:02 PM
If they had their way they would.

I think you should quit your job and open a business. Maybe then you would get a dose of reality.....

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 03:04 PM
But it was just that, an agreement. Agreements are nothing more than saying "This is what we want to do and will do if we can make it happen." Until it becomes law it is worth nothing more than the paper it is written on.

Quite frankly, I think NAFTA has helped all involved, regardless of who created it or signed it. However, I fully believe that NAFTA was the catalyst that set the stage for outsourcing of jobs. When NAFTA took effect American companies were sending work to Mexico faster than Mexicans were hopping to border to come to America. It snowballed after that.

It was an agreement conceived, negotiated, and signed off on by a Republican president and a Conservative PM. That tells me that Clinton had no REAL claim to it despite the fact he signed it into law. At the time, I was a Bush, Mulroney and NAFTA supporter (still am btw). Up here, the Liberals, and New Democrats were decidely against NAFTA and arguably many people believe Mulroney sabotaged his political career by enacting it. It surely was a catalyst for outsourcing jobs. That remains one of the biggest benefits Canada draws from the agreement.

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 03:08 PM
Just like there are people who vote against someone solely because of race/religion/political party there are those who vote for someone based solely on the same reasons. I do not believe that Obama was elected solely because he is black but I am sure that some people voted for him simply because he was black or simply to avoid appearing to be racist for not voting for him.

My honest opinion is that he got the Democratic nomination because of popularity and that he won the presidential election because America hoped he wouldn't be worse than McCain. However, there is no doubt in my mind that he got a free pass on some issues that a white man would not have gotten.


I totally disagree with you stating that people voted for him to appear to be less racists. Here in the united states when you vote you have a certian level of privacy. No one will know who you vote for unless you tell them. You can easily cheerlead obama to appear not to be racists then turn around and vote for his opponent in private. I think that Obama had it much harder than any other president. There was no birther movement asking for any white presidents birth certificate. Even after President Obama provided proof that he was under no obligation to provide those idiot birthers still would not shut up.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 03:11 PM
I totally disagree with you stating that people voted for him to appear to be less racists. Here in the united states when you vote you have a certian level of privacy. No one will know who you vote for unless you tell them. You can easily cheerlead obama to appear not to be racists then turn around and vote for his opponent in private. I think that Obama had it much harder than any other president. There was no birther movement asking for any white presidents birth certificate. Even after President Obama provided proof that he was under no obligation to provide those idiot birthers still would not shut up.

So asking a Pres for a birth certificate was racist? McCain produced his from Panama. I believe all presidents are obligated to show they were born in this country. The congress is supposed to do that I believe.

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 03:12 PM
Just like there are people who vote against someone solely because of race/religion/political party there are those who vote for someone based solely on the same reasons. I do not believe that Obama was elected solely because he is black but I am sure that some people voted for him simply because he was black or simply to avoid appearing to be racist for not voting for him.

My honest opinion is that he got the Democratic nomination because of popularity and that he won the presidential election because America hoped he wouldn't be worse than McCain. However, there is no doubt in my mind that he got a free pass on some issues that a white man would not have gotten.

For once, we are in agreement.:):

duane1969
10-17-2011, 03:13 PM
I totally disagree with you stating that people voted for him to appear to be less racists. Here in the united states when you vote you have a certian level of privacy. No one will know who you vote for unless you tell them. You can easily cheerlead obama to appear not to be racists then turn around and vote for his opponent in private. I think that Obama had it much harder than any other president. There was no birther movement asking for any white presidents birth certificate. Even after President Obama provided proof that he was under no obligation to provide those idiot birthers still would not shut up.

I know people who voted for him because it was popular or cool to vote for the black guy. I realize that since you are not white you may be unaware of it but there is a legitimate portion of white society that cringes at the word "racist" and that will do virtually anything to be considered non-racist.

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:21 PM
I know people who voted for him because it was popular or cool to vote for the black guy. I realize that since you are not white you may be unaware of it but there is a legitimate portion of white society that cringes at the word "racist" and that will do virtually anything to be considered non-racist.
Which i find comical...be yourself...i can possibly understand teenagers acting like that, but we are talking about grown adults who actually vote...i'm 35 years old and still haven't voted...i could care less if a purple guy comes into office...until a person comes into office that i can agree with everything he says then i'm not voting...

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 03:23 PM
I know people who voted for him because it was popular or cool to vote for the black guy. I realize that since you are not white you may be unaware of it but there is a legitimate portion of white society that cringes at the word "racist" and that will do virtually anything to be considered non-racist.


Again you can claim to be anything you want in public but be something totally differnt behind closed doors. For example a guy who is a star athlete at his college who is secretly gay would act like he is the biggest womanizer in public but be with men behind the scenes. He is not going to deal with women any more than he has to in order to keep up his public image. Just like someone who supports obama in public to pretend not to be racist but turns around and votes against him when he has the chance. I'm sure that there may have been some white people who only supported/voted for him because it was the cool thing to do but I highly doubt that the majority of white people who voted for him did.

duane1969
10-17-2011, 03:24 PM
Which i find comical...be yourself...i can possibly understand teenagers acting like that, but we are talking about grown adults who actually vote...i'm 35 years old and still haven't voted...i could care less if a purple guy comes into office...until a person comes into office that i can agree with everything he says then i'm not voting...

I don't disagree with you at all. It is stupid, but it is real.

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 03:24 PM
Which i find comical...be yourself...i can possibly understand teenagers acting like that, but we are talking about grown adults who actually vote...i'm 35 years old and still haven't voted...i could care less if a purple guy comes into office...until a person comes into office that i can agree with everything he says then i'm not voting...


If everyone thought like that then no one would vote.

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:25 PM
If everyone thought like that then no one would vote.
Does that make it right? Just need clarification on that...i've never been one to pick "the lesser evil."

And i disagree with that statement i believe a lot of people just vote based on Republican/Democrat, not the actual person...which i find truly intriguing...

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 03:27 PM
Which i find comical...be yourself...i can possibly understand teenagers acting like that, but we are talking about grown adults who actually vote...i'm 35 years old and still haven't voted...i could care less if a purple guy comes into office...until a person comes into office that i can agree with everything he says then i'm not voting...

I think Duane has a point on this one. There are many people out there that feel the need to assure THEMSELVES that they are not many things whether it be racist, homophobic, or whatever. And I can see them boosting their self-image by "doing the right thing".

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:29 PM
I think Duane has a point on this one. There are many people out there that feel the need to assure THEMSELVES that they are not many things whether it be racist, homophobic, or whatever. And I can see them boosting their self-image by "doing the right thing".
So are you saying ALL the white voters for Obama feel this way to justify him getting into office? Because i'm not sure where this is going?

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 03:29 PM
So asking a Pres for a birth certificate was racist? McCain produced his from Panama. I believe all presidents are obligated to show they were born in this country. The congress is supposed to do that I believe.


No it is not racist at all. However continually asking for proof of birth that has already been provided and holding the black canidate to a higher level of scrunity is.

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 03:30 PM
So are you saying ALL the white voters for Obama feel this way to justify him getting into office? Because i'm not sure where this is going?

No, I am saying "many". Why would you even think I meant "ALL"? How did you get to that conclusion?

Unlike you, many white voters were simply voting for who they thought was the better candidate.

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:31 PM
no it is not racist at all. However continually asking for proof of birth that has already been provided and holding the black canidate to a higher level of scrunity is.
+1

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:32 PM
No, I am saying "many". Why would you even think I meant "ALL"? How did you get to that conclusion?
Sorry, i have poor reading comprehension. Define "many", please? The dictionary is too vague for me...in your words, please...

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 03:34 PM
Sorry, i have poor reading comprehension. Define "many", please?

Really? You want me to define many? I'm not going to pull out the dictionary, but I believe it means: more than a few, but less than all.

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 03:34 PM
I wasn't leaving one off. The Bush bailout was a fraction of the Obama one and most of it has been paid back. If the people on Wall Street are protesting bailouts then I hope they are smart enough to protest the one that we are $2 trillion in the hole on and not the one that we are $66 billion in the hole on.

I would think that if they are protesting now, this administration's as well as the current governments spending would be something they are unhappy about. If they aren't then their cause loses traction... what ever traction it has. If they are protesting large corporations, the government is probably the largest and most wasteful one there is.

AUTaxMan
10-17-2011, 03:35 PM
I think Duane has a point on this one. There are many people out there that feel the need to assure THEMSELVES that they are not many things whether it be racist, homophobic, or whatever. And I can see them boosting their self-image by "doing the right thing".

I agree with you, and I believe that most of those people vote democrat. It's commonly referred to as "white guilt."

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:35 PM
No, I am saying "many". Why would you even think I meant "ALL"? How did you get to that conclusion?

Unlike you, many white voters were simply voting for who they thought was the better candidate.
Doesn't a lot of voters do that throughout history, way before Obama was ever in office? I'm still not sure where you are going with this?

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:36 PM
Really? You want me to define many? I'm not going to pull out the dictionary, but I believe it means: more than a few, but less than all.
Actually, i'm trying to get your point...

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:38 PM
I agree with you, and I believe that most of those people vote democrat. It's commonly referred to as "white guilt."
That's cute...doesn't democrats and republicans have different views and i don't think either of those deal with "guilt."

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 03:39 PM
ummm yeah i really do think he was voted because he was black...ill bet most blacks voted for him..lol i once saw a video on youtube i thought of a black man being interviewed and asked why he voted for obama..and the guys response was because mr odama...yes he didnt even know the guys name correct...tell me he voted on merit

don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people who vote for either candidate currently running for lots of stupid reasons. I'm sure race is a factor for some... just like weight, height, hair color, religion, etc are factors. I don;t doubt that some people voted for him just because he's black, but to say that he was elected because he was black is kind of absurd in my opinion. I didn't vote for him because of his color and I think most of the people who I know that voted for him didn't either.

making that assumption is rather huge because you saw one guy not know the name. I think more people vote blindly because of party moreso than color/race.

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 03:39 PM
Doesn't a lot of voters do that throughout history, way before Obama was ever in office? I'm still not sure where you are going with this?

Yes, many voters have always done that. Many apparently take your view on voting too, and don't vote. You are not sure where I am going with this because I am not going anywhere with it. I was agreeing with Duane's point.

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:41 PM
don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people who vote for either candidate currently running for lots of stupid reasons. I'm sure race is a factor for some... just like weight, height, hair color, religion, etc are factors. I don;t doubt that some people voted for him just because he's black, but to say that he was elected because he was black is kind of absurd in my opinion. I didn't vote for him because of his color and I think most of the people who I know that voted for him didn't either.

making that assumption is rather huge because you saw one guy not know the name. I think more people vote blindly because of party moreso than color/race.
I like this post...

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:41 PM
Yes, many voters have always done that. Many apparently take your view on voting too, and don't vote. You are not sure where I am going with this because I am not going anywhere with it. I was agreeing with Duane's point.
What's Duane's point in your words?

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:44 PM
don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people who vote for either candidate currently running for lots of stupid reasons. I'm sure race is a factor for some... just like weight, height, hair color, religion, etc are factors. I don;t doubt that some people voted for him just because he's black, but to say that he was elected because he was black is kind of absurd in my opinion. I didn't vote for him because of his color and I think most of the people who I know that voted for him didn't either.

making that assumption is rather huge because you saw one guy not know the name. I think more people vote blindly because of party moreso than color/race.
That's called stereotyping and people use it to justify their opinion...

mrveggieman
10-17-2011, 03:45 PM
don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people who vote for either candidate currently running for lots of stupid reasons. I'm sure race is a factor for some... just like weight, height, hair color, religion, etc are factors. I don;t doubt that some people voted for him just because he's black, but to say that he was elected because he was black is kind of absurd in my opinion. I didn't vote for him because of his color and I think most of the people who I know that voted for him didn't either.

making that assumption is rather huge because you saw one guy not know the name. I think more people vote blindly because of party moreso than color/race.


Church!! :cheer2:

habsheaven
10-17-2011, 03:53 PM
What's Duane's point in your words?

This was my interpretation of Duane's "words":

There are many people out there that feel the need to assure THEMSELVES that they are not many things whether it be racist, homophobic, or whatever. And I can see them boosting their self-image by "doing the right thing".

I do not know how to make it any clearer than that.

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 03:55 PM
This was my interpretation of Duane's "words":

There are many people out there that feel the need to assure THEMSELVES that they are not many things whether it be racist, homophobic, or whatever. And I can see them boosting their self-image by "doing the right thing".

I do not know how to make it any clearer than that.
That statement i agree with...:winking0071:

Those people sound real "shallow."

Thank you, for helping me with my reading comprehension issues. =)

jdawg
10-17-2011, 04:45 PM
don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people who vote for either candidate currently running for lots of stupid reasons. I'm sure race is a factor for some... just like weight, height, hair color, religion, etc are factors. I don;t doubt that some people voted for him just because he's black, but to say that he was elected because he was black is kind of absurd in my opinion. I didn't vote for him because of his color and I think most of the people who I know that voted for him didn't either.

making that assumption is rather huge because you saw one guy not know the name. I think more people vote blindly because of party moreso than color/race.

whether you want to believe it or not racisim is alive and well..im not a racist, i have 3 brother in laws one white, one asian, and one black, so we dont discriminate as a family lol..but how much of the older generation alive when blacks and whites were segregated werent actually racists..and still hold those feelings to this day..do you think they cared if obama agreed with their points of views..i trully feel some people could have 100% the same views as obama and wouldnt vote for him because he is black...but i also feel blacks who dont agree with anything he is about still voted for him to make history...see p diddy, puff daddy, sirock obama..whatever he goes by these days as an example

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 04:54 PM
That's called stereotyping and people use it to justify their opinion...

in this case it's not really stereotyping. It's just flawed when you let a few examples make you think "all" have done the same thing. At least some stereotyping usually has some sort of base truth. If I heard of a guy that said he voted Obama because his hamster sat on the obama button, I wouldn't think everyone voted because of that.

by the way... my hamster may or may not have played a role in how I voted. lol.

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 04:57 PM
I agree with you, and I believe that most of those people vote democrat. It's commonly referred to as "white guilt."

I am not guilty about being white although I've voted democrat just as much as I have republican throughout my voting career.

you're kidding yourself if you think voting for "stupid" reasons is only limited to democrats.

AUTaxMan
10-17-2011, 05:03 PM
I am not guilty about being white although I've voted democrat just as much as I have republican throughout my voting career.

you're kidding yourself if you think voting for "stupid" reasons is only limited to democrats.

I don't see how you could think that this was aimed at you or that I said voting for stupid reasons was limited to democrats.

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 05:13 PM
"Riddle me this, riddle me that, who's afraid of the big black, bat?"-The Riddler

Star_Cards
10-17-2011, 05:15 PM
I don't see how you could think that this was aimed at you or that I said voting for stupid reasons was limited to democrats.

I don;t think it was aimed at me specifically. I just posted that my obama vote was in no way because of "white guilt". Your post conveyed to me that you feel it's mostly a Dem issue when you said "I believe that most of those people vote democrat". Maybe I read it wrong, but that's what I got from it.

AUTaxMan
10-17-2011, 05:30 PM
I don;t think it was aimed at me specifically. I just posted that my obama vote was in no way because of "white guilt". Your post conveyed to me that you feel it's mostly a Dem issue when you said "I believe that most of those people vote democrat". Maybe I read it wrong, but that's what I got from it.

White guilt is largely a Democrat issue, but it certainly doesn't apply to all who vote Democrat.

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 05:33 PM
White guilt is largely a Democrat issue, but it certainly doesn't apply to all who vote Democrat.
Great opinion! :winking0071:

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 07:31 PM
If everyone thought like that then no one would vote.
I actually agree with you....:love0030:

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 07:32 PM
Does that make it right? Just need clarification on that...i've never been one to pick "the lesser evil."

And i disagree with that statement i believe a lot of people just vote based on Republican/Democrat, not the actual person...which i find truly intriguing...
To me it means you should have no say politically if you can't back someone. No complaining if you do nothing to change it.

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 07:36 PM
No it is not racist at all. However continually asking for proof of birth that has already been provided and holding the black canidate to a higher level of scrunity is.
First off, I think everyone was beating him up because he outright refused to address the issue. Congress should have done it anyway. Secondly, how is he held to a higher standard when they checked on the other candidates birthplace and there were legitimate questions that were not getting answered from Obamas camp? Congress apparently didn't do their job. They just sealed all the records and paid alot of money to block access. That asks for questioning....

sanfran22
10-17-2011, 07:38 PM
I would think that if they are protesting now, this administration's as well as the current governments spending would be something they are unhappy about. If they aren't then their cause loses traction... what ever traction it has. If they are protesting large corporations, the government is probably the largest and most wasteful one there is.
They're protesting the wrong place IMO. They need to set up shop on Penn. dr IMO. They are extremely misguided and ignorant.

tutall
10-17-2011, 09:48 PM
the corporations pay not enough taxs and the little guy pay too much taxs. you can not keep your house and pay all your bills on $8.00 per hr, than what can you do?????

without reading the rest of the thread yet.... Sell your house or find a better paying job... Dont rely on anyone else to wipe your butt... tighten your boots and go to work

tutall
10-17-2011, 09:52 PM
i was makeing over 19.00 an hr. show me a job that pays that much, working in a factor ?????

I can name 6 factories within a mile of my employer that pay that or more... and that is in small town Indiana....

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 09:53 PM
To me it means you should have no say politically if you can't back someone. No complaining if you do nothing to change it.
Watch George Carlin for my answer to that statement...

P.S. What makes you believe you ACTUALLY do have an opinion politically?

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 09:57 PM
I can name 6 factories within a mile of my employer that pay that or more... and that is in small town Indiana....
Do you need a college degree or can you get in them with just a high school diploma?

tutall
10-17-2011, 10:03 PM
Do you need a college degree or can you get in them with just a high school diploma?

HS Diploma or even a GED in most cases... They are just regular labor jobs

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 10:31 PM
HS Diploma or even a GED in most cases... They are just regular labor jobs
That's rare around here in Ohio...

tutall
10-17-2011, 10:48 PM
That's rare around here in Ohio...

What part of OH? I live less than 10 minutes from the OH/IN border...

Hilfiger1975
10-17-2011, 10:50 PM
What part of OH? I live less than 10 minutes from the OH/IN border...
Elyria, Ohio...

tutall
10-17-2011, 10:52 PM
Im not sure where that is but I do know even in my little town where 30K a year is a very comfortable salary there are plenty of good paying jobs that are currently hiring.... one place (pays 13-15 an hour) seems to always be hiring. They have trouble keeping people because they make their employees actually work...

mrveggieman
10-18-2011, 08:22 AM
Watch George Carlin for my answer to that statement...

P.S. What makes you believe you ACTUALLY do have an opinion politically?


I can't post the video because it contains profanity but George Carlin said that if you vote and elect incompetent and dishonest politicians you have no business complaining becuse you were the ones who voted him in there. During election day he stayed home. The only difference between him and the voters was when he got through "handling his business" he had something to show for it.

mrveggieman
10-18-2011, 08:25 AM
First off, I think everyone was beating him up because he outright refused to address the issue. Congress should have done it anyway. Secondly, how is he held to a higher standard when they checked on the other candidates birthplace and there were legitimate questions that were not getting answered from Obamas camp? Congress apparently didn't do their job. They just sealed all the records and paid alot of money to block access. That asks for questioning....


Be honest no matter what President Obama would have provided people like you would have something to complain about. He provided proof it was accepted by the US gov't and that's all that matters. Ya'll can continue to be bitter and misreable about it but it dosen't change a thing.

duane1969
10-18-2011, 09:26 AM
I can name 6 factories within a mile of my employer that pay that or more... and that is in small town Indiana....

That is thanks to competition for high quality employees. Take 5 of those factories out of the equation and see what the salary drops to.


Be honest no matter what President Obama would have provided people like you would have something to complain about. He provided proof it was accepted by the US gov't and that's all that matters. Ya'll can continue to be bitter and misreable about it but it dosen't change a thing.

Virtually every other presidential candidate makes their financial and birth records public. Why is it holding Obama to a "higher standard" to expect the same?

I think you meant to use the term "double standard". That is what happens when liberals cry foul because Obama is expected to do what everyone else is expected to do.

mrveggieman
10-18-2011, 09:30 AM
That is thanks to competition for high quality employees. Take 5 of those factories out of the equation and see what the salary drops to.



Virtually every other presidential candidate makes their financial and birth records public. Why is it holding Obama to a "higher standard" to expect the same?

I think you meant to use the term "double standard". That is what happens when liberals cry foul because Obama is expected to do what everyone else is expected to do.


Obama is expected to do his job of running the country to the best of his abilities which he is doing a fine job of. You conservatives want to take attention away from that by blaming him for problems that he inherited for the previous repulican president and also talk about trivial matters like proof of birth was already provided and verified. Ya'll republicans are getting desperate. You can't even come up with a viable canidate so you want to make up any dirt that you can on President Obama to deflect attention away for the mess within your own camp.

duane1969
10-18-2011, 09:35 AM
Obama is expected to do his job of running the country to the best of his abilities which he is doing a fine job of. You conservatives want to take attention away from that by blaming him for problems that he inherited for the previous repulican president and also talk about trivial matters like proof of birth was already provided and verified. Ya'll republicans are getting desperate. You can't even come up with a viable canidate so you want to make up any dirt that you can on President Obama to deflect attention away for the mess within your own camp.

Okee dokee. You keep telling yourself that :winking0071:

ensbergcollector
10-18-2011, 09:44 AM
Obama is expected to do his job of running the country to the best of his abilities which he is doing a fine job of. You conservatives want to take attention away from that by blaming him for problems that he inherited for the previous repulican president and also talk about trivial matters like proof of birth was already provided and verified. Ya'll republicans are getting desperate. You can't even come up with a viable canidate so you want to make up any dirt that you can on President Obama to deflect attention away for the mess within your own camp.

and you have now lost all credibility for political debate. thanks for playing

bud7562
10-18-2011, 10:41 AM
huh? lol i just get sick and tired of people whining and crying about their situations instead of changing their situations..people need to realize in american you dont have the right to be happy...you have the right to pursue happiness what happiness and the rich get richer and we get poorer and poorer ??????

duane1969
10-18-2011, 10:50 AM
what happiness and the rich get richer and we get poorer and poorer ??????

If you do not have a job, then yes, you get poorer and poorer. And in spite of the current popular opinion, it is not the responsibility of those who have to provide for those who have-not.

AUTaxMan
10-18-2011, 10:52 AM
what happiness and the rich get richer and we get poorer and poorer ??????

you're right. this country is the worst.

mrveggieman
10-18-2011, 11:12 AM
If you do not have a job, then yes, you get poorer and poorer. And in spite of the current popular opinion, it is not the responsibility of those who have to provide for those who have-not.


So what is the common man to do? Continue to pay higher taxes so the richer can get more tax breaks and send more of our jobs overseas? SMH.

AUTaxMan
10-18-2011, 11:13 AM
So what is the common man to do? Continue to pay higher taxes so the richer can get more tax breaks and send more of our jobs overseas? SMH.

You never answered Duane's question about Rev. Wright.

duane1969
10-18-2011, 01:57 PM
You never answered Duane's question about Rev. Wright.

He won't because he doesn't like either answer that he has to give. If he says he disagrees with Obama being involved then it is a statement against Obama. If he says he has no issue with it then he is essentially condoning Wright's words and Obama being a part of it.

For an unwavering Obama supporter that question is unanswerable.

mrveggieman
10-18-2011, 02:19 PM
He won't because he doesn't like either answer that he has to give. If he says he disagrees with Obama being involved then it is a statement against Obama. If he says he has no issue with it then he is essentially condoning Wright's words and Obama being a part of it.

For an unwavering Obama supporter that question is unanswerable.


Once again Obama is not my God so therefore I do not agree nor to I have to agree with everything that he does. Obama has already distanced himself from the controversial statements of Rev Wright. What more do you want him to do? Challenge him to a fistfight during service?

AUTaxMan
10-18-2011, 02:22 PM
Once again Obama is not my God so therefore I do not agree nor to I have to agree with everything that he does. Obama has already distanced himself from the controversial statements of Rev Wright. What more do you want him to do? Challenge him to a fistfight during service?

Why did he wait 20+ years to distance himself from Wright if he so vehemently disagreed with Wright's messages?

mrveggieman
10-18-2011, 02:31 PM
Why did he wait 20+ years to distance himself from Wright if he so vehemently disagreed with Wright's messages?


Who in the hell would have cared about Obama/Wright 20+ years ago? He was asked about it and he said that he already distanced himself from it?

AUTaxMan
10-18-2011, 02:36 PM
Who in the hell would have cared about Obama/Wright 20+ years ago? He was asked about it and he said that he already distanced himself from it?

So Obama was ok with the message for 20+ years, but only when he began to sense that it would have a negative effect on him politically, he distanced himself from Wright? Is that what you're saying?

habsheaven
10-18-2011, 02:46 PM
He won't because he doesn't like either answer that he has to give. If he says he disagrees with Obama being involved then it is a statement against Obama. If he says he has no issue with it then he is essentially condoning Wright's words and Obama being a part of it.

For an unwavering Obama supporter that question is unanswerable.

I have been accused of being an unwavering supporter of Obama on numerous occasions, so let me take a crack at answering it.

Let me start by saying I do not know all that much about Rev Wright or his church, but I will accept what those on the RIGHT are saying about both. I also do not know the extent of Obama's association with either, despite the exaggeration of the RIGHT or the minimalization of the LEFT.

Back in the day, Obama probably attended church as any "good" aspiring politician should. I doubt he is as religious as he leads people to believe (For that matter, I doubt most people are.) He may have chose to associate with this particular church for social or political reasons? Maybe Michelle picked it? Regardless, none of it is important.

I will also contend that maybe Obama did (and does) believe in some of what Wright was espousing. So what? Smart people open their minds to all kinds of different ideas and philosophies.

I also have no problem with Obama claiming Rev Wright as his spiritual advisor. Obama's spirituality has nothing to do with Rev Wright's political views.

At the end of the day. I think he is a GOOD man. I think he could have been a GREAT President. Unfortunately, the economy and the Republicans have never given him a chance, and at a time when the US needs co-operation the most from its legislative members, they are blowing it big time.

It's very sad when the politicians put "anything but" in front of what is best for the country.

mrveggieman
10-18-2011, 02:47 PM
So Obama was ok with the message for 20+ years, but only when he began to sense that it would have a negative effect on him politically, he distanced himself from Wright? Is that what you're saying?


Again you are putting words in my mouth like a lot of your buddies on here like to do. 20 years ago none of us were with Obama/Wright let alone heard of him so we cant really say what went on. Obama is clearly not a racists and does not agree with any racist sentiment on either side. Let me ask you do you blindly agree with everything that your preacher says? Has you preacher ever said something that some would consider questionable?

AUTaxMan
10-18-2011, 02:53 PM
Again you are putting words in my mouth like a lot of your buddies on here like to do. 20 years ago none of us were with Obama/Wright let alone heard of him so we cant really say what went on. Obama is clearly not a racists and does not agree with any racist sentiment on either side. Let me ask you do you blindly agree with everything that your preacher says? Has you preacher ever said something that some would consider questionable?

I said earlier that I do not believe Obama is a racist. I said that he attached himself to Wright because they espouse the same Marxist political views of wealth redistribution and social justice.

pghin08
10-18-2011, 03:12 PM
I have been accused of being an unwavering supporter of Obama on numerous occasions, so let me take a crack at answering it.

Let me start by saying I do not know all that much about Rev Wright or his church, but I will accept what those on the RIGHT are saying about both. I also do not know the extent of Obama's association with either, despite the exaggeration of the RIGHT or the minimalization of the LEFT.

Back in the day, Obama probably attended church as any "good" aspiring politician should. I doubt he is as religious as he leads people to believe (For that matter, I doubt most people are.) He may have chose to associate with this particular church for social or political reasons? Maybe Michelle picked it? Regardless, none of it is important.

I will also contend that maybe Obama did (and does) believe in some of what Wright was espousing. So what? Smart people open their minds to all kinds of different ideas and philosophies.

I also have no problem with Obama claiming Rev Wright as his spiritual advisor. Obama's spirituality has nothing to do with Rev Wright's political views.

At the end of the day. I think he is a GOOD man. I think he could have been a GREAT President. Unfortunately, the economy and the Republicans have never given him a chance, and at a time when the US needs co-operation the most from its legislative members, they are blowing it big time.

It's very sad when the politicians put "anything but" in front of what is best for the country.

Interwebz hugs. :hug:

bud7562
10-18-2011, 03:28 PM
So what is the common man to do? Continue to pay higher taxes so the richer can get more tax breaks and send more of our jobs overseas? SMH. thats why is so protest in this country and around the world. that why the rich is getting richer, to much taxing and enough good paying jobs.

AUTaxMan
10-18-2011, 03:30 PM
thats why is so protest in this country and around the world. that why the rich is getting richer, to much taxing and enough good paying jobs.

Can I get a translator please?

bud7562
10-18-2011, 04:39 PM
Can I get a translator please? ever thing getting higher and paycheck is getting samller, and the food getting higher, too much geed for the rich.

marekschwarz33
10-18-2011, 04:52 PM
ever thing getting higher and paycheck is getting samller, and the food getting higher, too much geed for the rich.

You responded to his post asking you to clarify but you did so with another incoherent sentence...

No, higher prices have nothing to do with the rich being "greedy". Our entire economic system is messed up in large part due to the federal reserve. These protesters should stop arguing against capitalism and start focusing on auditing/ending the federal reserve. When you have a fiat currency, inflation and price instability are going to happen. If you want to bring jobs back to America, you need to give business owners incentive to not outsource jobs. This is why tax breaks for corporations are important. Also, labor overseas is signifantly cheaper...perhaps the minimum wage needs to be lowered here.

AUTaxMan
10-18-2011, 04:59 PM
You responded to his post asking you to clarify but you did so with another incoherent sentence...

No, higher prices have nothing to do with the rich being "greedy". Our entire economic system is messed up in large part due to the federal reserve. These protesters should stop arguing against capitalism and start focusing on auditing/ending the federal reserve. When you have a fiat currency, inflation and price instability are going to happen. If you want to bring jobs back to America, you need to give business owners incentive to not outsource jobs. This is why tax breaks for corporations are important. Also, labor overseas is signifantly cheaper...perhaps the minimum wage needs to be lowered here.

Someone gets it.

Hilfiger1975
10-18-2011, 05:03 PM
Again you are putting words in my mouth like a lot of your buddies on here like to do. 20 years ago none of us were with Obama/Wright let alone heard of him so we cant really say what went on. Obama is clearly not a racists and does not agree with any racist sentiment on either side. Let me ask you do you blindly agree with everything that your preacher says? Has you preacher ever said something that some would consider questionable?
That's an understatement...

tutall
10-18-2011, 07:20 PM
You responded to his post asking you to clarify but you did so with another incoherent sentence...

No, higher prices have nothing to do with the rich being "greedy". Our entire economic system is messed up in large part due to the federal reserve. These protesters should stop arguing against capitalism and start focusing on auditing/ending the federal reserve. When you have a fiat currency, inflation and price instability are going to happen. If you want to bring jobs back to America, you need to give business owners incentive to not outsource jobs. This is why tax breaks for corporations are important. Also, labor overseas is signifantly cheaper...perhaps the minimum wage needs to be lowered here.

I agree with this post... I have always said minimum wage needs to be lowered... It really does nothing when raised except make the prices higher for everything. Also I like how these protesters are arguing against capitalism yet if we had a true capitalistic country the banks would have failed instead of being bailed out.

tutall
10-18-2011, 07:30 PM
[QUOTE=duane1969;10536944]That is thanks to competition for high quality employees. Take 5 of those factories out of the equation and see what the salary drops to. [QUOTE]

But the fact of the matter ramains in the blue collar areas of the US there are still factories that pay very well... We have a 2 GM assembly plants within a reasonable area, we have many trailer and boat factories, and we have one of the largest producers of windmills just down the road from us. We have many of the suppliers in state also thanks to our governor who is very pro-business.

sanfran22
10-18-2011, 07:39 PM
and you have now lost all credibility for political debate. thanks for playing
Now??:sign0020:

duane1969
10-18-2011, 07:42 PM
[QUOTE=duane1969;10536944]That is thanks to competition for high quality employees. Take 5 of those factories out of the equation and see what the salary drops to. [QUOTE]

But the fact of the matter ramains in the blue collar areas of the US there are still factories that pay very well... We have a 2 GM assembly plants within a reasonable area, we have many trailer and boat factories, and we have one of the largest producers of windmills just down the road from us. We have many of the suppliers in state also thanks to our governor who is very pro-business.

I get that. The problem is that for every area like yours with plenty of factories and jobs there are ten areas with no factories and hardly any jobs.

duane1969
10-18-2011, 07:53 PM
I have been accused of being an unwavering supporter of Obama on numerous occasions, so let me take a crack at answering it.

Let me start by saying I do not know all that much about Rev Wright or his church, but I will accept what those on the RIGHT are saying about both. I also do not know the extent of Obama's association with either, despite the exaggeration of the RIGHT or the minimalization of the LEFT.

Back in the day, Obama probably attended church as any "good" aspiring politician should. I doubt he is as religious as he leads people to believe (For that matter, I doubt most people are.) He may have chose to associate with this particular church for social or political reasons? Maybe Michelle picked it? Regardless, none of it is important.

I will also contend that maybe Obama did (and does) believe in some of what Wright was espousing. So what? Smart people open their minds to all kinds of different ideas and philosophies.

I also have no problem with Obama claiming Rev Wright as his spiritual advisor. Obama's spirituality has nothing to do with Rev Wright's political views.

At the end of the day. I think he is a GOOD man. I think he could have been a GREAT President. Unfortunately, the economy and the Republicans have never given him a chance, and at a time when the US needs co-operation the most from its legislative members, they are blowing it big time.

It's very sad when the politicians put "anything but" in front of what is best for the country.

I have no problem with anything you said except the bolded parts.

The first bolded part is because of this. It isn't what the "right" is saying, there is video of Wright saying everything that has been brought up plus anti-Semetic slurs. Obama is documented as having been attending the church during the time frame (but perhaps not the exact day) that Wright was making his statements, however it would be foolish to think that Wright was only racist and anti-American on the days that Obam wasn't there.

As to the second bolded part, I totally disagree. An anti-American racist should not be the spiritual advisor of the President of the United States.

sanfran22
10-18-2011, 08:02 PM
so here's my question....would it be ok if Obama were white (I know he's half) and attended a KKK rally? No problem with that? Because this "church" isn't far off IMO.

habsheaven
10-18-2011, 09:30 PM
I have no problem with anything you said except the bolded parts.

The first bolded part is because of this. It isn't what the "right" is saying, there is video of Wright saying everything that has been brought up plus anti-Semetic slurs. Obama is documented as having been attending the church during the time frame (but perhaps not the exact day) that Wright was making his statements, however it would be foolish to think that Wright was only racist and anti-American on the days that Obam wasn't there.

As to the second bolded part, I totally disagree. An anti-American racist should not be the spiritual advisor of the President of the United States.

I'm sure there is video of it. That's why I accept it. You don't think for a minute that I would accept anything the RIGHT has to say otherwise do you?

As for your other statement. That "anti-American racist" is a legitimate preacher of some sort isn't he? I don't see why it is unreasonable to think that he may have provided "spiritual" help to people aside from his other rhetoric.

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 08:15 AM
I have no problem with anything you said except the bolded parts.

The first bolded part is because of this. It isn't what the "right" is saying, there is video of Wright saying everything that has been brought up plus anti-Semetic slurs. Obama is documented as having been attending the church during the time frame (but perhaps not the exact day) that Wright was making his statements, however it would be foolish to think that Wright was only racist and anti-American on the days that Obam wasn't there.

As to the second bolded part, I totally disagree. An anti-American racist should not be the spiritual advisor of the President of the United States.


Did you speak out against Jerry Fallwell's and Pat Robertson's racism and anti semitism when they were GWB's spiritial advisors?

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 08:18 AM
[quote=tutall;10539039][quote=duane1969;10536944]That is thanks to competition for high quality employees. Take 5 of those factories out of the equation and see what the salary drops to.

I get that. The problem is that for every area like yours with plenty of factories and jobs there are ten areas with no factories and hardly any jobs.
+1

sanfran22
10-19-2011, 09:53 AM
Did you speak out against Jerry Fallwell's and Pat Robertson's racism and anti semitism when they were GWB's spiritial advisors?

When were they his spiritual advisers?

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 10:34 AM
When were they his spiritual advisers?

you didn't get the memo. every idiot who calls themselves a christian, automatically speak for every christian except obama.

and veggieman - we are on page like 15 and you still won't answer the question. you should get into politics with how skilled you are at avoiding direct questions.

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 11:26 AM
When were they his spiritual advisers?

http://amputd.com/stories/view/176

That?s why Pat Robertson, the spiritual adviser of Mr. Bush, is calling for my assassination. That would be much cheaper than an invasion.?

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 11:31 AM
you didn't get the memo. every idiot who calls themselves a christian, automatically speak for every christian except obama.

and veggieman - we are on page like 15 and you still won't answer the question. you should get into politics with how skilled you are at avoiding direct questions.

I thought that's was the standard in organized religion. If one idiot speaks or does something stuipd they represent the entire religion because as we all know people who share the same religion all think the same and can never have differing opinions. Also which question are you accusing me of ducking?

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 11:31 AM
http://amputd.com/stories/view/176

That?s why Pat Robertson, the spiritual adviser of Mr. Bush, is calling for my assassination. That would be much cheaper than an invasion.?

i got it, hugo chavez said robertson was bush's advisor. must be true then

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 11:33 AM
i got it, hugo chavez said robertson was bush's advisor. must be true then


Hugo Chavez has more credibility that GWB ever had.

*censored*
10-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Hugo Chavez has more credibility that GWB ever had.

*facepalm*

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Hugo Chavez has more credibility that GWB ever had.

lol...you are a funny dude man. so obama calls wright his spiritual advisor but that's ok because hugo chavez says robertson is bush's advisor??? you can't honestly believe that.

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 11:44 AM
lol...you are a funny dude man. so obama calls wright his spiritual advisor but that's ok because hugo chavez says robertson is bush's advisor??? you can't honestly believe that.


I really don't care who the president's spiritial advisor is. GWB sucked as a president with or without pat robertson just like obama is a great president with or without rev wright.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 11:46 AM
I really don't care who the president's spiritial advisor is. GWB sucked as a president with or without pat robertson just like obama is a great president with or without rev wright.
That's going a big far now. I haven't seen a great president in a longgg time...

*censored*
10-19-2011, 11:50 AM
I haven't seen a great president in a longgg time...

This. Eisenhower was the last one as far as I'm concerned.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 11:51 AM
This. Eisenhower was the last one as far as I'm concerned.
No, JFK? :suspicious:

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 11:52 AM
I really don't care who the president's spiritial advisor is. GWB sucked as a president with or without pat robertson just like obama is a great president with or without rev wright.

you are beyond ridiculous bro. you post a ridiculous article pretending it is proof of something. I call you on it, and you respond with this? come on man, you post crap as proof and when you get called on it you just go, yeah well, i'm still right.

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 11:53 AM
No, JFK? :suspicious:

other than being a great speaker...not even close

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 11:56 AM
other than being a great speaker...not even close
He was a microphone fiend...:winking0071:

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 11:58 AM
you are beyond ridiculous bro. you post a ridiculous article pretending it is proof of something. I call you on it, and you respond with this? come on man, you post crap as proof and when you get called on it you just go, yeah well, i'm still right.


Does this make you feel any better?

http://www.anarkismo.net/article/1537

http://www.alternet.org/story/24747/

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 12:04 PM
Does this make you feel any better?

http://www.anarkismo.net/article/1537

http://www.alternet.org/story/24747/

not really. because aside from the fact that you are posting anarchist blogs as sources, neither article makes any claim that bush listens to robertson. the only connection is that while bush was president, robertson was a well known christian preacher. zero personal connection, even when using ridiculous sources.

sanfran22
10-19-2011, 12:10 PM
Hugo Chavez has more credibility that GWB ever had.

Oh man......:smash:

sanfran22
10-19-2011, 12:12 PM
Does this make you feel any better?

http://www.anarkismo.net/article/1537

http://www.alternet.org/story/24747/

Hahahahahahaha....oh man. Are you a closet anarchist? Commie?? Come on man, where does it say that Robertson was Bushes spiritual adviser....jeez..

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Hahahahahahaha....oh man. Are you a closet anarchist? Commie?? Come on man, where does it say that Robertson was Bushes spiritual adviser....jeez..


So that's the level that you and your buddies will stoop to? Calling me a anarchist, communist, etc. MLK Jr was called worst. So was Jesus. I will take those names coming from you as a badge of honor. :kiss:

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 12:34 PM
So that's the level that you and your buddies will stoop to? Calling me a anarchist, communist, etc. MLK Jr was called worst. So was Jesus. I will take those names coming from you as a badge of honor. :kiss:

wow, comparing yourself to MLK and Jesus huh? humility isn't an issue for you is it?

first of all, what is this "you and your buddies" mess. show me where anyone else said it. secondly, you posted an anarchist blog as a viable source so how are people supposed to interpret that?

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 12:39 PM
wow, comparing yourself to MLK and Jesus huh? humility isn't an issue for you is it?

first of all, what is this "you and your buddies" mess. show me where anyone else said it. secondly, you posted an anarchist blog as a viable source so how are people supposed to interpret that?


I'm just posting the link. Each of you on several occasions have ran off with your own conclusions like you always do. Btw I'm wasn't trying to compare my self with anyone but my point was I don't let my haters weather online line or offline get to me. Just like I'm sure that Presiden't Obama could care less what his haters on a sports site would think and he will care about them even less when he is re-elected in 2012.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 12:44 PM
wow, comparing yourself to MLK and Jesus huh? humility isn't an issue for you is it?

first of all, what is this "you and your buddies" mess. show me where anyone else said it. secondly, you posted an anarchist blog as a viable source so how are people supposed to interpret that?
I don't see where he was comparing himself to them? He was using them as an example...but way to read between the lines...:thumb:

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 12:44 PM
I'm just posting the link. Each of you on several occasions have ran off with your own conclusions like you always do. Btw I'm wasn't trying to compare my self with anyone but my point was I don't let my haters weather online line or offline get to me. Just like I'm sure that Presiden't Obama could care less what his haters on a sports site would think and he will care about them even less when he is re-elected in 2012.

you criticize anyone who uses fox news as a source but you use crap blogs and get mad when we call you on it.

and yes, obama will probably get re-elected because of people like you who think that because he "hasn't forgotten where he came from" and is "keeping it real" he must be doing a good job. I weep for this country

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 12:45 PM
i'm just posting the link. Each of you on several occasions have ran off with your own conclusions like you always do. Btw i'm wasn't trying to compare my self with anyone but my point was i don't let my haters weather online line or offline get to me. just like i'm sure that presiden't obama could care less what his haters on a sports site would think and he will care about them even less when he is re-elected in 2012.
burn! :):

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 12:46 PM
you criticize anyone who uses fox news as a source but you use crap blogs and get mad when we call you on it.

and yes, obama will probably get re-elected because of people like you who think that because he "hasn't forgotten where he came from" and is "keeping it real" he must be doing a good job. I weep for this country
You haven't been weeping for this country years ago? Wayyy before Obama?

By the way i saw what you did there and i'm white...shouldn't you be getting dressed for a rally soon, "so you can tell some one they got a pretty mouf?"

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 12:55 PM
you criticize anyone who uses fox news as a source but you use crap blogs and get mad when we call you on it.

and yes, obama will probably get re-elected because of people like you who think that because he "hasn't forgotten where he came from" and is "keeping it real" he must be doing a good job. I weep for this country

So the only people that voted for Obama in the last election and the only people who are going to vote for him in 2012 are "people like me"? Define "people like me" please.

lloydr04
10-19-2011, 12:55 PM
you criticize anyone who uses fox news as a source but you use crap blogs and get mad when we call you on it.

and yes, obama will probably get re-elected because of people like you who think that because he "hasn't forgotten where he came from" and is "keeping it real" he must be doing a good job. I weep for this country

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff192/airhoppz/GIFs/smh.gif

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 12:58 PM
In closing, you gotta love the interwebz...it's good to see American's History hasn't changed after all these years...:rolleyes:

lloydr04
10-19-2011, 12:59 PM
you criticize anyone who uses fox news as a source but you use crap blogs and get mad when we call you on it.

and yes, obama will probably get re-elected because of people like you who think that because he "hasn't forgotten where he came from" and is "keeping it real" he must be doing a good job. I weep for this country

oh and i almost forgot


http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy17/ilovesyou2much/Profile&#37;20Graphics/tumblr_llmsh4G54O1qcjwy9.gif

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 12:59 PM
do any of you read the other threads. i was very specific in my post toward veggie because of comments he has made about cain.

and veggieman - by people like you, i mean people who can say with a straight face that obama has done a great job and is a great president. Therefore, people who are going to vote for him no matter what he does and no matter who the other candidates are.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:02 PM
do any of you read the other threads. i was very specific in my post toward veggie because of comments he has made about cain.

and veggieman - by people like you, i mean people who can say with a straight face that obama has done a great job and is a great president. Therefore, people who are going to vote for him no matter what he does and no matter who the other candidates are.
I could care less what veggie has said politically. I saw your snide comments in the quotation marks...

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:02 PM
You haven't been weeping for this country years ago? Wayyy before Obama?

By the way i saw what you did there and i'm white...shouldn't you be getting dressed for a rally soon, "so you can tell some one they got a pretty mouf?"

i could care less that you are white. i am not the one that made this a racial issue. veggiemans issue with cain is that he doesn't do enough for low income blacks so i assumed that must mean he feels obama has.

so others can make blatantly racist statements but my comments warrant a "dressed for a rally" comment?

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:03 PM
oh and i almost forgot


http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy17/ilovesyou2much/Profile%20Graphics/tumblr_llmsh4G54O1qcjwy9.gif
I love True Blood!:winking0071:

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:03 PM
I could care less what veggie has said politically. I saw your snide comments in the quotation marks...

the first quote was an actual quote from veggie thank you very much

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:04 PM
i could care less that you are white. i am not the one that made this a racial issue. veggiemans issue with cain is that he doesn't do enough for low income blacks so i assumed that must mean he feels obama has.

so others can make blatantly racist statements but my comments warrant a "dressed for a rally" comment?
Did you actually read what you said in YOUR quotations marks? I'm a firm believer in two wrongs make a right, sorry...:winking0071:

lloydr04
10-19-2011, 01:05 PM
the first quote was an actual quote from veggie thank you very much

not trying to be funny , but are you a female?

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:05 PM
the first quote was an actual quote from veggie thank you very much

Your secret is safe with me...:winking0071:

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:06 PM
Did you actually read what you said in YOUR quotations marks? I'm a firm believer in two wrongs make a right, sorry...:winking0071:

yes, and i was quoting veggie. why is that so hard to understand. saying someone "forgot where he came from" is no different than the small minded attitude of someone "keeping it real." those attitudes are not confined to one race as far as I am concerned but apparently it does to you.

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 01:07 PM
do any of you read the other threads. i was very specific in my post toward veggie because of comments he has made about cain.

and veggieman - by people like you, i mean people who can say with a straight face that obama has done a great job and is a great president. Therefore, people who are going to vote for him no matter what he does and no matter who the other candidates are.


So how would that be any different from someone who voted for gwb despite dragging our country through hell? Or someone who voted against obama for obvious reasons without giving the man a fair chance? Oh I forgot people like you will talk about how much of a great job gwb did, how terrible obama is and how will will have an eutopian society once obama is voted out of office. SMH

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:07 PM
not trying to be funny , but are you a female?

no and do i even want to know why you asked? and if you weren't trying to be funny or insulting why would you even ask?

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:08 PM
yes, and i was quoting veggie. why is that so hard to understand. saying someone "forgot where he came from" is no different than the small minded attitude of someone "keeping it real." those attitudes are not confined to one race as far as I am concerned but apparently it does to you.
Well if you are saying it then it MUST be true then! :winking0071:

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:09 PM
So how would that be any different from someone who voted for gwb despite dragging our country through hell? Or someone who voted against obama for obvious reasons without giving the man a fair chance? Oh I forgot people like you will talk about how much of a great job gwb did, how terrible obama is and how will will have an eutopian society once obama is voted out of office. SMH

dude, find me one time that i have defended the bush presidency? that, my friend, is an assumption you have made. if you had been here back when bush was still president, you would have seen me and numerous other "republican" posters who were very critical of bush. I still am. doesn't mean I am not allowed to be critical of obama too.

and there you are bringing race into it again. care to explain what you mean by "people who voted against obama for obvious reasons"

lloydr04
10-19-2011, 01:09 PM
no and do i even want to know why you asked? and if you weren't trying to be funny or insulting why would you even ask?

Whats funny or insulting about being a female? Elaborate. And the only reason i asked was because of the "thank you very much" line .... females usually use it, but i guess its not "confined" to just one gender.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:09 PM
Back on topic, though. No one person is going to help this country, he/she is going to need help...

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 01:10 PM
i could care less that you are white. i am not the one that made this a racial issue. veggiemans issue with cain is that he doesn't do enough for low income blacks so i assumed that must mean he feels obama has.

so others can make blatantly racist statements but my comments warrant a "dressed for a rally" comment?


Last time I checked people of all races can have low incomes and suffer from economic hardships. Cain will do nothing for anyone on the low end of the economic pole regardless of race. There you go again with you assumptions....

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:10 PM
Well if you are saying it then it MUST be true then! :winking0071:

if I am saying what? I shared my opinion on those type of quotes and that type of attitude. not saying anyone has to agree but for me, that type of attitude is small minded.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:10 PM
Whats funny or insulting about being a female? Elaborate. And the only reason i asked was because of the "thank you very much" line .... females usually use it, but i guess its not "confined" to just one gender.
I C wut u did thar...:winking0071:

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:11 PM
Last time I checked people of all races can have low incomes and suffer from economic hardships. Cain will do nothing for anyone on the low end of the economic pole regardless of race. There you go again with you assumptions....

i am not making assumptions. your first attack against cain you were willing to say he doesn't do enough for blacks. now you are changing your language to cover yourself. just because i am calling you on what you said, doesn't make me wrong or assumptive.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:12 PM
if I am saying what? I shared my opinion on those type of quotes and that type of attitude. not saying anyone has to agree but for me, that type of attitude is small minded.
There is A LOT of "small-minded" people when it deals with Politics, honestly...

lloydr04
10-19-2011, 01:13 PM
I C wut u did thar...:winking0071:

http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/artistimages/00/000/916/0000091689_150.jpg

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:13 PM
Whats funny or insulting about being a female? Elaborate. And the only reason i asked was because of the "thank you very much" line .... females usually use it, but i guess its not "confined" to just one gender.

it is neither funny nor insulting to be female. it is an attempt to be funny and insulting to ask someone their gender like it matters. it is an attempt to be insulting to tell a female they sound like a male and vice versa.

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:14 PM
There is A LOT of "small-minded" people when it deals with Politics, honestly...

agreed

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:15 PM
i could care less that you are white. i am not the one that made this a racial issue. veggiemans issue with cain is that he doesn't do enough for low income blacks so i assumed that must mean he feels obama has.

so others can make blatantly racist statements but my comments warrant a "dressed for a rally" comment?
I was talking about a "political rally". Sorry, if you made "assumptions" and took it the wrong way...:winking0071:

lloydr04
10-19-2011, 01:16 PM
it is neither funny nor insulting to be female. it is an attempt to be funny and insulting to ask someone their gender like it matters. it is an attempt to be insulting to tell a female they sound like a male and vice versa.

So now you're putting words in my mouth, back up your statements or don't come at all.. it was a simple question, and in my opinion alot less personal rather asking someone their political beliefs, but whatever ... you don't know what you're talking about.

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 01:16 PM
i am not making assumptions. your first attack against cain you were willing to say he doesn't do enough for blacks. now you are changing your language to cover yourself. just because i am calling you on what you said, doesn't make me wrong or assumptive.


Cain does not do anything for black people. Yes I said it. However cain is not running to be the leader of black people he is running to be the leader of all americans regardless of race. He would make a poor leader because he does not care about the common man regardless if he is white, black, hispanic, asian, christian, jewish, muslim, gay, straight or whatever. So no matter how you slice it he would be a terrible president and he would only cater to the rich and powerful not the working taxpayer.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:17 PM
it is neither funny nor insulting to be female. it is an attempt to be funny and insulting to ask someone their gender like it matters. it is an attempt to be insulting to tell a female they sound like a male and vice versa.
I'm O-ffended that you would even imply those things...seriously, people can get offended about anything now-a-days...just saying...

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:17 PM
I was talking about a "political rally". Sorry, if you made "assumptions" and took it the wrong way...:winking0071:

my bad...wow, i feel dumb now! that's for the clarification. :winking0071:

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:18 PM
my bad...wow, i feel dumb now! that's for the clarification. :winking0071:
No hard feelings all in fun...:):

ensbergcollector
10-19-2011, 01:19 PM
Cain does not do anything for black people. Yes I said it. However cain is not running to be the leader of black people he is running to be the leader of all americans regardless of race. He would make a poor leader because he does not care about the common man regardless if he is white, black, hispanic, asian, christian, jewish, muslim, gay, straight or whatever. So no matter how you slice it he would be a terrible president and he would only cater to the rich and powerful not the working taxpayer.

yes, and if you had said from the beginning that he doesn't do anything for the poor or working class, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead, you called him an uncle tom who doesn't do anything for black people. you let your actual issue be none.

and just for the record, people of all races can be rich and powerful. there you go making assumptions again.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 01:19 PM
I think in GENERAL people take these forums a bit too much to heart...everyone has an opinion...period...

:humble:

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 01:24 PM
yes, and if you had said from the beginning that he doesn't do anything for the poor or working class, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead, you called him an uncle tom who doesn't do anything for black people. you let your actual issue be none.

and just for the record, people of all races can be rich and powerful. there you go making assumptions again.


I never said or suggested that people of all races are not be rich or powerful but that is neither here or there. The bottom line is that cain has not and will not care for the common man and like another poster put on here earlier his 9-9-9 tax plan is just another plan to make the rich richer and put more of a burden on the working man. And yes I have an issue with him not caring for the working class as well as him not knowing who he is when he looks in the mirror but that is for another time and another place....

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 01:24 PM
I think in GENERAL people take these forums a bit too much to heart...everyone has an opinion...period...

:humble:


Church!! :cheer2:

sanfran22
10-19-2011, 01:41 PM
So that's the level that you and your buddies will stoop to? Calling me a anarchist, communist, etc. MLK Jr was called worst. So was Jesus. I will take those names coming from you as a badge of honor. :kiss:

Did I call you that? I asked a question which you didn't answer. Why did you link to a blatant anarchist site?

sanfran22
10-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Cain does not do anything for black people. Yes I said it. However cain is not running to be the leader of black people he is running to be the leader of all americans regardless of race. He would make a poor leader because he does not care about the common man regardless if he is white, black, hispanic, asian, christian, jewish, muslim, gay, straight or whatever. So no matter how you slice it he would be a terrible president and he would only cater to the rich and powerful not the working taxpayer.

Here's a thought. Maybe you should do something for yourself. Stop asking others to do it for you. You are everything that is wrong with this country and the Democratic party philosophy as a whole. If you think Obama and the dems are helping the working taxpayer I think you better do some research....Maybe look into energy costs and what will happen, raising taxes on the "rich" that make over 200k, healthcare costs to middle class, Fuels standards that are coming ect.

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 02:14 PM
Here's a thought. Maybe you should do something for yourself. Stop asking others to do it for you. You are everything that is wrong with this country and the Democratic party philosophy as a whole. If you think Obama and the dems are helping the working taxpayer I think you better do some research....Maybe look into energy costs and what will happen, raising taxes on the "rich" that make over 200k, healthcare costs to middle class, Fuels standards that are coming ect.


If I had to chose between obama helping me as a taxpayer and working class citizen or between gwb from 2001-2008 or any of the gargabge that the republicans are throwing out there I would go with obama every time. Come up with some better canidates who will actually work for all the citizens to provide health care to all, lower taxes, provide jobs and you and I will defitenely have something to talk about. I wont be holding my breath waiting.

FYI I never registered nor claimed to be democrat or republican for that matter a day in my life I always vote for the best man/woman for the job and never the party. It's not my fault that every republican canidate in my entire lifetime that ran for president was a complete piece of garbage.

AUTaxMan
10-19-2011, 02:37 PM
If I had to chose between obama helping me as a taxpayer and working class citizen or between gwb from 2001-2008 or any of the gargabge that the republicans are throwing out there I would go with obama every time. Come up with some better canidates who will actually work for all the citizens to provide health care to all, lower taxes, provide jobs and you and I will defitenely have something to talk about. I wont be holding my breath waiting.

FYI I never registered nor claimed to be democrat or republican for that matter a day in my life I always vote for the best man/woman for the job and never the party. It's not my fault that every republican canidate in my entire lifetime that ran for president was a complete piece of garbage.

The government is not supposed to help you. They are supposed to get out of your way.

Hilfiger1975
10-19-2011, 02:37 PM
The government is not supposed to help you. They are supposed to get out of your way.
I like that...it's catchy...

sanfran22
10-19-2011, 02:40 PM
If I had to chose between obama helping me as a taxpayer and working class citizen or between gwb from 2001-2008 or any of the gargabge that the republicans are throwing out there I would go with obama every time. Come up with some better canidates who will actually work for all the citizens to provide health care to all, lower taxes, provide jobs and you and I will defitenely have something to talk about. I wont be holding my breath waiting.

FYI I never registered nor claimed to be democrat or republican for that matter a day in my life I always vote for the best man/woman for the job and never the party. It's not my fault that every republican canidate in my entire lifetime that ran for president was a complete piece of garbage.

Well, Actually I'm middle class, have healthcare (that I pay for). Had lower taxes then the prev. decade, made better money then now, and had a job 9not provided by the gov't) all under GWB.
You don't need to claim to be a dem, but it's pretty obvious what you are by your rhetoric....

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 02:40 PM
The government is not supposed to help you. They are supposed to get out of your way.


The also are not supposed to hurt me either but hell 1 out of two isn't bad. :confused0024:

habsheaven
10-19-2011, 02:40 PM
The government is not supposed to help you. They are supposed to get out of your way.

This is a great idealogy. Too bad it's full of holes.:rolleyes:

sanfran22
10-19-2011, 02:40 PM
The government is not supposed to help you. They are supposed to get out of your way.

Yep...at least for most.

sanfran22
10-19-2011, 02:41 PM
The also are not supposed to hurt me either but hell 1 out of two isn't bad. :confused0024:

Bro, you're party and ideology is hurting you more then any Repub or Conservative ever could or would.

AUTaxMan
10-19-2011, 02:42 PM
This is a great idealogy. Too bad it's full of holes.:rolleyes:

That's the ideology upon which our country was founded.

habsheaven
10-19-2011, 02:44 PM
That's the ideology upon which our country was founded.

That's what you like to think, but it isn't necessarily so.

mrveggieman
10-19-2011, 02:45 PM
Bro, you're party and ideology is hurting you more then any Repub or Conservative ever could or would.


No it's more like people like herman cain and your beloved tea party.

AUTaxMan
10-19-2011, 03:18 PM
That's what you like to think, but it isn't necessarily so.

Actually, it is. That's why our Constitution was drafted as a document of negative liberties.

habsheaven
10-19-2011, 03:29 PM
Actually, it is. That's why our Constitution was drafted as a document of negative liberties.

Forgive my ignorance then but why do you have a "government" if it is just supposed to "get out of the way"?

AUTaxMan
10-19-2011, 03:42 PM
Forgive my ignorance then but why do you have a "government" if it is just supposed to "get out of the way"?

Chiefly, to build infrastructure and to provide for the common defense. I recommend you read our Constitution. It's really a fascinating document.

habsheaven
10-19-2011, 03:47 PM
Chiefly, to build infrastructure and to provide for the common defense. I recommend you read our Constitution. It's really a fascinating document.

Some day I just might do that. For now, I think you just made the point I was getting at. So I guess you just want the government to "get out of your way" when it is convenient for you?

pghin08
10-19-2011, 03:48 PM
Chiefly, to build infrastructure and to provide for the common defense. I recommend you read our Constitution. It's really a fascinating document.

Don't forget to promote the general welfare. Preamble slam!

AUTaxMan
10-19-2011, 03:50 PM
Some day I just might do that. For now, I think you just made the point I was getting at. So I guess you just want the government to "get out of your way" when it is convenient for you?

No. It is to perform minimal, defined functions for the common good.

habsheaven
10-19-2011, 03:55 PM
No. It is to perform minimal, defined functions for the common good.

Hmmmm.... that's not as catchy, as "get out of our way".:rolleyes:

bud7562
10-28-2011, 10:06 PM
Chiefly, to build infrastructure and to provide for the common defense. I recommend you read our Constitution. It's really a fascinating document. what constitution and what government, that why the keep charging everything around. the rich is getting richer and (????] with the little people. at less protest is getting biger by the day!!!!!!!!!!