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theonedru
10-29-2011, 02:32 PM
Video shows bully attacking 15-year-old gay student

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/video-shows-bully-attacking-15-old-gay-student-184016355.html

This Kid commits this heinous and deliberate crime and walk away with a 3 day suspension? The losers that watched this and did nothing deserve more than that. This kid deserves a seriously long jail term to remind him and others that this is not cool.

This time lets keep it civil, no insulting or egging other members. We stick to topic and some people just need to read the P&R forum rules before posting. Sorry to those who had great comments in the former thread.

andrewhoya
10-29-2011, 02:46 PM
Video shows bully attacking 15-year-old gay student

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/video-shows-bully-attacking-15-old-gay-student-184016355.html

This Kid commits this heinous and deliberate crime and walk away with a 3 day suspension? The losers that watched this and did nothing deserve more than that. This kid deserves a seriously long jail term to remind him and others that this is not cool.

This time lets keep it civil, no insulting or egging other members. We stick to topic and some people just need to read the P&R forum rules before posting. Sorry to those who had great comments in the former thread.

If it happened once already, what makes you think it wont happen again?

duane1969
10-29-2011, 07:37 PM
Where the heck is the teacher?!!

tutall
10-29-2011, 08:28 PM
does he deserve the jail time because he picks on a gay kid or because he bullies another student? Dont get me wrong.. I think he deserves jail time but being that it was a crime against a gay student has nothing to do with it

gladdyontherise
10-29-2011, 11:47 PM
does he deserve the jail time because he picks on a gay kid or because he bullies another student? Dont get me wrong.. I think he deserves jail time but being that it was a crime against a gay student has nothing to do with it

Nailed it on the head, kids get in fights at school all the time, the sexuality of the student shouldn't be the deciding factor into his punishment.

theonedru
10-30-2011, 12:38 AM
Nailed it on the head, kids get in fights at school all the time, the sexuality of the student shouldn't be the deciding factor into his punishment.

kids get in fights at school all the time

And because so it makes it ok or what are you saying by this statement? regardless of age beating someone is wrong and should be punished to the fullest extent possible. its funny the double standard on here, if the kid was younger, female or disabled then that would be factored in so why not the kids sexuality if that was a factor in choosing who to beat

If he was targeted because he was gay then it should factor in to the kids punishment because it makes what he did a more severe crime, if not then it shouldn't. And all those others who watched should have been expelled because they are just as guilty as the guy that did the beating.

gladdyontherise
10-30-2011, 12:54 AM
kids get in fights at school all the time

And because so it makes it ok or what are you saying by this statement? regardless of age beating someone is wrong and should be punished to the fullest extent possible. its funny the double standard on here, if the kid was younger, female or disabled then that would be factored in so why not the kids sexuality if that was a factor in choosing who to beat

If he was targeted because he was gay then it should factor in to the kids punishment because it makes what he did a more severe crime, if not then it shouldn't. And all those others who watched should have been expelled because they are just as guilty as the guy that did the beating.

Did I say that? Kids get in fights all the time, my point is this situation shoudn't be handled any different then it normally should just because of the boys sexuality.

As usual though you are putting words into other peoples mouths.

tutall
10-30-2011, 12:58 AM
kids get in fights at school all the time

And because so it makes it ok or what are you saying by this statement? regardless of age beating someone is wrong and should be punished to the fullest extent possible. its funny the double standard on here, if the kid was younger, female or disabled then that would be factored in so why not the kids sexuality if that was a factor in choosing who to beat

If he was targeted because he was gay then it should factor in to the kids punishment because it makes what he did a more severe crime, if not then it shouldn't. And all those others who watched should have been expelled because they are just as guilty as the guy that did the beating.

There shouldnt be any discrepency in punishment from the school no matter who the victim was. From a public perception of course there is going to be a difference of opinion but as far as punishment goes which is what this thread appears to be about, the victim should not matter one bit.

themanishere
10-30-2011, 01:00 AM
I agree his sexuality should be factored in, because he was specifically targeted for it. It's not the same as a fight that breaks out because someone spilled your lunch on purpose or whatever.

It wasn't the first time the kid was harassed though. I'm not excusing the attack, but being passive (on the part of all involved parties) about the situation allows things to build up to this.

andrewhoya
10-30-2011, 08:46 AM
If the school systems policy is a 3 day suspension for bullying a kid, then a 3 day suspension is what he deserved. You can't go changing things around all the time. 3 days is usually what it is for most school systems.

gladdyontherise
10-30-2011, 10:11 AM
If the school systems policy is a 3 day suspension for bullying a kid, then a 3 day suspension is what he deserved. You can't go changing things around all the time. 3 days is usually what it is for most school systems.

I'm sure it depends on the district. I know my high school it was 10 days for fighting (atleast) no matter what.

andrewhoya
10-30-2011, 10:19 AM
I'm sure it depends on the district. I know my high school it was 10 days for fighting (atleast) no matter what.

Yeah, they vary from place to place. If he got 3 days, then that is probably what it was.

tutall
10-30-2011, 10:25 AM
I agree his sexuality should be factored in, because he was specifically targeted for it. It's not the same as a fight that breaks out because someone spilled your lunch on purpose or whatever.

It wasn't the first time the kid was harassed though. I'm not excusing the attack, but being passive (on the part of all involved parties) about the situation allows things to build up to this.

what if a kid is targeted because he is overweight... or targeted because he is in band... or glee club....

tutall
10-30-2011, 10:27 AM
I agree his sexuality should be factored in, because he was specifically targeted for it. It's not the same as a fight that breaks out because someone spilled your lunch on purpose or whatever.

It wasn't the first time the kid was harassed though. I'm not excusing the attack, but being passive (on the part of all involved parties) about the situation allows things to build up to this.

what if a kid is targeted because he is overweight... or targeted because he is in band... or glee club....

theonedru
10-30-2011, 01:37 PM
If the school systems policy is a 3 day suspension for bullying a kid, then a 3 day suspension is what he deserved. You can't go changing things around all the time. 3 days is usually what it is for most school systems.

He didnt bully the kid he beat him... big difference

theonedru
10-30-2011, 01:38 PM
what if a kid is targeted because he is overweight... or targeted because he is in band... or glee club....

What if the kid was targeted because he was mentally/physically disabled, or was female, or younger?

duane1969
10-30-2011, 01:55 PM
kids get in fights at school all the time

And because so it makes it ok or what are you saying by this statement? regardless of age beating someone is wrong and should be punished to the fullest extent possible. its funny the double standard on here, if the kid was younger, female or disabled then that would be factored in so why not the kids sexuality if that was a factor in choosing who to beat

If he was targeted because he was gay then it should factor in to the kids punishment because it makes what he did a more severe crime, if not then it shouldn't. And all those others who watched should have been expelled because they are just as guilty as the guy that did the beating.

Schools are not penal systems. They have policies to abide by. Two boys got into a fight, the agressor got 3 days suspension. They do not give extended sentences because of aspects like weight, hieght, hair color or sexual preference.

If had been our school district the gay kid would have gotten 3 days too. In our school district all fighters get punished. My son got 3 days because another kid jumped him. I qustioned it and was told that it was policy.


If the school systems policy is a 3 day suspension for bullying a kid, then a 3 day suspension is what he deserved. You can't go changing things around all the time. 3 days is usually what it is for most school systems.

Exactly. School officials are not judges. They apply the policy set forth by the board.


what if a kid is targeted because he is overweight... or targeted because he is in band... or glee club....

Beat me to it...


He didnt bully the kid he beat him... big difference

It's not like the other kid had no option to defend himself. I agree it was wrong but what type of person lets another person hit them and does nothing about it.


What if the kid was targeted because he was mentally/physically disabled, or was female, or younger?

Same reult.

If the parents want to puruse legal action outside of the school system then they can do that but expecting the school system to expel the kid for a year just isn't going to happen.

andrewhoya
10-30-2011, 01:58 PM
this post sums everything up.
Schools are not penal systems. They have policies to abide by. Two boys got into a fight, the agressor got 3 days suspension. They do not give extended sentences because of aspects like weight, hieght, hair color or sexual preference.

If had been our school district the gay kid would have gotten 3 days too. In our school district all fighters get punished. My son got 3 days because another kid jumped him. I qustioned it and was told that it was policy.



Exactly. School officials are not judges. They apply the policy set forth by the board.



Beat me to it...



It's not like the other kid had no option to defend himself. I agree it was wrong but what type of person lets another person hit them and does nothing about it.



Same reult.

If the parents want to puruse legal action outside of the school system then they can do that but expecting the school system to expel the kid for a year just isn't going to happen.

tutall
10-30-2011, 05:35 PM
Schools are not penal systems. They have policies to abide by. Two boys got into a fight, the agressor got 3 days suspension. They do not give extended sentences because of aspects like weight, hieght, hair color or sexual preference.

If had been our school district the gay kid would have gotten 3 days too. In our school district all fighters get punished. My son got 3 days because another kid jumped him. I qustioned it and was told that it was policy.



Exactly. School officials are not judges. They apply the policy set forth by the board.



Beat me to it...



It's not like the other kid had no option to defend himself. I agree it was wrong but what type of person lets another person hit them and does nothing about it.



Same reult.

If the parents want to puruse legal action outside of the school system then they can do that but expecting the school system to expel the kid for a year just isn't going to happen.

That was my point you just said it better.... Doesnt matter if the kid is disabled, female, younger, anything... In the school if there is a policy or precident set you abide by that policy regardless....

JBpatches
10-30-2011, 06:16 PM
I don't see the "hate crime" argument. To me it doesn't matter what the bully's reason was for attacking the other student. The bully should face charges, not for getting in a fight in school but for...

tutall
10-30-2011, 06:53 PM
Thats what court is for... If they decide to press charges I think there is a good chance thiskid lands in jail... Schools do not have that authority and must work with what they have.

Star_Cards
10-30-2011, 10:25 PM
I think this kid deserves proper legal action for that beating. It's rather disturbing that he has that much anger for this kid just because of his sexuality and should probably get some help with that. No matter who or why this kid decided to beat that kid, he should be legally held accountable for his actions and shouldn't be able to go to that school as long as the victim is there in my opinion.

It's also very disturbing to see that not one kid stepped up to help this kid, but yet they reach for their cell phones.

duane1969
10-30-2011, 11:27 PM
So because the gay kid didn't fight back the other kid deserves a worse penalty? That makes no sense. <br />
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Never happen. No court will put a kid in jail for a school fight. I know of a minor who...

theonedru
10-30-2011, 11:40 PM
So because the gay kid didn't fight back the other kid deserves a worse penalty? That makes no sense.



Never happen. No court will put a kid in jail for a school fight. I know of a minor who sexually assaulted a girl, he never served a day, never even got probation as far as I know. Minors get a free ride on everything but major felonies. Simple Assault is a misdemeanor, at most he would have gotten some public service and probation and probably not even that.



I don't know what the school policy is but in my area all involved gets in trouble. Students who get involved, even to break things up, can get in trouble.

I know it sounds stupid but that is how schools protect themselves. If a kid tries to break up a fight and gets hurt you can bet that the parents of that kid will sue the school district because their kid got hurt doing the schools'/teacher's job.

Its a black mark on society when these losers fail to help a fellow human in need. People can say what they want to justify them doing nothing but they were there and did nothing, that is disgusting and deplorable no if and's or but's and they do deserve to be punished for their ignorance, it might teach them to be better people in the future instead of the scum that they are. And thr parents of these kids.

Star_Cards
10-30-2011, 11:41 PM
I get that schools wouldn't want other kids getting involved in fights, but when a fight gets to the point of not being a fight and it is a kid just beating another kid I would hope that there are some kids that would step and in. I'd hope that someone in that classroom would have an instinct to want to help a kid on the ground getting punched over and over again while not being able to defend himself in the slightest way.

theonedru
10-30-2011, 11:43 PM
I love how some people blame the other kid for failing to fight back, talk about sad things.......

duane1969
10-30-2011, 11:48 PM
I get your point, just telling you what I know. Schools preach this stuff to kids. Kids are told from day one to get a teacher and not get in the middle of it. You can't blame a bunch of 14 and 15...

Star_Cards
10-31-2011, 12:41 AM
very true and I definitely see the side of a school not wanting kids to step in. it seems odd that a beating like this is allowed to go on so long. I'm not sure of the school set up but if it was similar to mine there were multiple teachers near buy even if a teacher happened to be away from their classroom. Blame only goes to the guy doing the beating. He needs to be dealt with more than just a 3 day suspension. He obviously has anger issues and the kid that he beat and every other student should be able to go to school without having to be afraid of this kid doing something like this again. I wonder if the victim could file a restraining order to keep him legally away from him even at school.

JBpatches
10-31-2011, 02:53 AM
So because the gay kid didn't fight back the other kid deserves a worse penalty? That makes no sense.



Never happen. No court will put a kid in jail for a school fight. I know of a minor who sexually assaulted a girl, he never served a day, never even got probation as far as I know. Minors get a free ride on everything but major felonies. Simple Assault is a misdemeanor, at most he would have gotten some public service and probation and probably not even that.



I don't know what the school policy is but in my area all involved gets in trouble. Students who get involved, even to break things up, can get in trouble.

I know it sounds stupid but that is how schools protect themselves. If a kid tries to break up a fight and gets hurt you can bet that the parents of that kid will sue the school district because their kid got hurt doing the schools'/teacher's job.

No.. the bully deserves a worse penalty because after he hit the poor kid and he was down he continued to pummel him.

duane1969
10-31-2011, 12:39 PM
No.. the bully deserves a worse penalty because after he hit the poor kid and he was down he continued to pummel him.

Well unfortunately here in the real world punishment is not based on the number of times you hit someone, it is based on hitting them at all. The school applied it's predetermined policy and they applied it.

pghin08
10-31-2011, 12:46 PM
Well unfortunately here in the real world punishment is not based on the number of times you hit someone, it is based on hitting them at all. The school applied it's predetermined policy and they applied it.

Like has been said, the school can only do so much. Leave it to the courts. That's assault, big time.

gladdyontherise
10-31-2011, 02:41 PM
I don't know why people assume other kids should've tried to break it up. I know I wouldn't in most cases. The kid doing the punching was a big guy, if i'm smaller than that person, why would I try to break it up? So that kid can starting punching me in the head over and over again? It's unfortunate, but i'm not going to be stupid and get involved where I put myself in danger. If that sounds selfish, it should be.

pghin08
10-31-2011, 04:13 PM
I don't know why people assume other kids should've tried to break it up. I know I wouldn't in most cases. The kid doing the punching was a big guy, if i'm smaller than that person, why would I try to break it up? So that kid can starting punching me in the head over and over again? It's unfortunate, but i'm not going to be stupid and get involved where I put myself in danger. If that sounds selfish, it should be.

I respectfully disagree. I'm not a big guy (6 foot, 165), but I've had to break up fights before, and I have no problem doing it. Someone could've simply run behind that bully, grab him by the waist and essentially take him down or at least pull him off. I've never been hit by any flailing elbows or punches when I've done that.

It's a youtube culture now. Kids are far more interested in posting a "cool" youtube video than doing the morally right thing and defending someone in need.

I'm not trying to be critical of what you would do in the situation, everyone has a right to choose whether or not to act, and I don't think that everyone who didn't rush to that kids defense lack morals, I'm just genuinely surprised that not one of them would even try.

gladdyontherise
10-31-2011, 04:17 PM
I respectfully disagree. I'm not a big guy (6 foot, 165), but I've had to break up fights before, and I have no problem doing it. Someone could've simply run behind that bully, grab him by the waist and essentially take him down or at least pull him off. I've never been hit by any flailing elbows or punches when I've done that.

It's a youtube culture now. Kids are far more interested in posting a "cool" youtube video than doing the morally right thing and defending someone in need.

I'm not trying to be critical of what you would do in the situation, everyone has a right to choose whether or not to act, and I don't think that everyone who didn't rush to that kids defense lack morals, I'm just genuinely surprised that not one of them would even try.

Well yea, it would most likely depend on the size of everybody. I'm just saying, if the guy is bigger than me, i'm not going to try and break up a fight when that guy could very likely just starting throwing punches at me.

I can't say i'm suprised no one did anything though. I'm just out of highschool 2 years ago, and most kids loved to watch a fight that they weren't involved in. That isn't a reflection of the kids though, in my opinion. It's a problem with the culture the kids are being brought up upon in 2011.

However (and I know you didn't say this) to say someone is scum for not breaking up a fight is ridiculous.

ensbergcollector
10-31-2011, 04:41 PM
Well yea, it would most likely depend on the size of everybody. I'm just saying, if the guy is bigger than me, i'm not going to try and break up a fight when that guy could very likely just starting throwing punches at me.

I can't say i'm suprised no one did anything though. I'm just out of highschool 2 years ago, and most kids loved to watch a fight that they weren't involved in. That isn't a reflection of the kids though, in my opinion. It's a problem with the culture the kids are being brought up upon in 2011.

However (and I know you didn't say this) to say someone is scum for not breaking up a fight is ridiculous.

i agree with you for the most part. however, i get tired of the idea that goes along with the bolded. people shouldn't get a free pass because of culture. while the culture might influence todays teens, their actions are still a reflection on themselves. Otherwise, you have given an entire generation a free pass to do whatever they want and say, "not your fault, it is the culture you grew up in"

Star_Cards
10-31-2011, 04:43 PM
I don't know why people assume other kids should've tried to break it up. I know I wouldn't in most cases. The kid doing the punching was a big guy, if i'm smaller than that person, why would I try to break it up? So that kid can starting punching me in the head over and over again? It's unfortunate, but i'm not going to be stupid and get involved where I put myself in danger. If that sounds selfish, it should be.

I'm trying to put myself back in high school... it's hard to imagine what I would do. yes I was smaller and not as strong as I am now, but most fights I saw where two sided and never got to the point of this sort of beating. Most fights I saw got broken up very quickly and there were always teachers around to break it up fast. I would like to think if someone ever had another person on the ground and was beating them repeatedly that I would step in no matter the size of the guy doing the beating. For me that's the point were a fight isn't a typical fight. I can see the small kid argument but I sort of think that if I was the one taking the beating I'd want someone to help me even if it's just telling the guy to stop. Although I'm not sure I'd have that same desire to stop a fight when I was in high school. I don't blame any of the kids for not helping the kid. Just shocked that out of the amount of kids in a normal class that there didn't seem to be one in the part of the video I saw.

gladdyontherise
10-31-2011, 05:04 PM
i agree with you for the most part. however, i get tired of the idea that goes along with the bolded. people shouldn't get a free pass because of culture. while the culture might influence todays teens, their actions are still a reflection on themselves. Otherwise, you have given an entire generation a free pass to do whatever they want and say, "not your fault, it is the culture you grew up in"

I should've explained myself more. I'm not giving a free pass to the kids, I just don't think you can say that its ALL on EVERY kid as some may say or think.

At the end of the day society promotes fighting. At some point you need to use common sense or have people that teach you the difference between right and wrong. As stupid as it may sound, it does tend to hold true.

For the kid in the video, do I give him a free pass for beating up the boy based on his sexuality? No way, however you have to think why does he hate this kid so much? I'd tend to believe he's been taught to hate those who like the same sex. Could I be wrong? Of course, and am I giving him a free pass? Nope, but it makes you wonder for sure.

andrewhoya
10-31-2011, 05:36 PM
I don't know why people assume other kids should've tried to break it up. I know I wouldn't in most cases. The kid doing the punching was a big guy, if i'm smaller than that person, why would I try to break it up? So that kid can starting punching me in the head over and over again? It's unfortunate, but i'm not going to be stupid and get involved where I put myself in danger. If that sounds selfish, it should be.

Being in HS, I'm honestly not sure if I would have stepped in right away. If blood was drawn, or if it was bad, then yeah, I would.

I certainly wouldnt take a video, though.

maniac133
10-31-2011, 06:50 PM
This really is a shame. The video should not have been taken, but being in high school myself and seeing it happen often, videos are taken all the time.

On the issue of jumping in to help the smaller kid...I really don't know if I would. Not because I'm afraid of the kid putting a beating on the smaller kid, but because everyone in Vegas rolls in groups. If you jump into a fight, you better believe you'll be the next one getting a beating by 5+ people. But that's coming from someone who probably lives on opposite sides of the country.

pspstatus
11-01-2011, 12:27 AM
So because the gay kid didn't fight back the other kid deserves a worse penalty? That makes no sense.

The gay student doesn't deserve ANY punishment as this was not a fight but rather an assault plain and simple. I do understand that schools are limited in how they can punish students with consistency being very important. But I do believe that there are probably certain situations where a school can has the authority to do a little bit more to ensure a students safety. While maybe suspending him longer isn't right, he should have his parents brought in, and he should be required to see a school counselor.

Really when it comes down to it this kid maybe shouldn't get in more trouble for beating the kid for being gay. That's where a counselor should come in because he's obviously got some issues to work out. What he should be getting in more trouble for is ambushing someone for no reason, then continuing to beat him when he's on the ground.