PDA

View Full Version : This is sad....



andrewhoya
11-07-2011, 02:29 PM
In a recent ABC poll, the question
Does the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon make you (more) likely to vote for him, (less) likely to vote for him, or doesn’t it make a difference in your vote?- 20% said less likely.

Am I the only one who finds this crazy and sad?

The poll was asked to Republican voters.

mrveggieman
11-07-2011, 02:39 PM
Even though I'm not a republican and didn't plan on voting for him I was highly offended that someone would not vote for a canidate whom they feel would do a good job soley based on his/her religious preference. SMH.

habsheaven
11-07-2011, 02:44 PM
Crazy? Yes. Sad? Not really. I think it is a universally accepted fact that 1/3 of all Republicans share the most extreme and perversed view on just about everything that is different from themselves. The other 2/3's spend their time defending the party from the criticisms brought on by their extreme peers.

duane1969
11-07-2011, 02:55 PM
Crazy? Yes. Sad? Not really. I think it is a universally accepted fact that 1/3 of all Republicans share the most extreme and perversed view on just about everything that is different from themselves. The other 2/3's spend their time defending the party from the criticisms brought on by their extreme peers.

This would be funny if it wasn't so hypocritical.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

First, I didn't see a link to the poll and can't find it but logic dictates that it wasn't a Republican only poll so going on a Republican bashing frenzy is pretty narrow-minded.

Also, Mormonism has long been considered by many to be a form of a cult and until 50 or 60 years ago was a religion of polygamy. Expecting people to suddenly see things differently just because you "open-minded" people do is pretty niave.

habsheaven
11-07-2011, 03:31 PM
How was my statement hypocritical? I am not a Democrat and I have no "extreme" views on anything.

The OP stated in his original post (it has since been changed) that the question was asked of "Republicans". That's as good a time as any to bash the nutjobs. I didn't bash the 2/3 of Republicans that are "normal".

I assume from your last paragraph that you may be in the 20%. lol

gatorboymike
11-07-2011, 03:43 PM
According to a 2007 poll, 53% of Americans would not vote for an atheist, so I have no problem using candidates' religion against them. Especially people like Rick Perry, who campaign on the sole basis of their religion. Romney should be considering himself lucky that his own co-religionists have not made him as much of a pariah as some people are.

http://goodreasonblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/would-you-vote-for-atheist.html

mrveggieman
11-07-2011, 04:17 PM
It's just so sad that in 2011 that someone would not vote for a canidate because of trivial resasons such as race, religion (or lack of one for that matter), gender, sexual prefrence, political party (ok that may be a stretch) or any other trivial reason that will have no bearing on weather he or she will do a good job in office. And you wonder why american continues to have the problems that it has. SMH.

Star_Cards
11-07-2011, 04:28 PM
I think it's pretty typical that people will vote or not vote for a candidate based on their religious standing especially if it's not the typical mainstream christian. I'm surprised that the percentage wasn't higher myself.

andrewhoya
11-07-2011, 04:40 PM
This would be funny if it wasn't so hypocritical.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

First, I didn't see a link to the poll and can't find it but logic dictates that it wasn't a Republican only poll so going on a Republican bashing frenzy is pretty narrow-minded.

Also, Mormonism has long been considered by many to be a form of a cult and until 50 or 60 years ago was a religion of polygamy. Expecting people to suddenly see things differently just because you "open-minded" people do is pretty niave.

It was a republican only, sorry.

duane1969
11-07-2011, 05:23 PM
How was my statement hypocritical? I am not a Democrat and I have no "extreme" views on anything.

The OP stated in his original post (it has since been changed) that the question was asked of "Republicans". That's as good a time as any to bash the nutjobs. I didn't bash the 2/3 of Republicans that are "normal".

I assume from your last paragraph that you may be in the 20%. lol

Condemning someone for generalizing about a candidate based on his religion and then generalizing about a political party with equally biased and unfounded generalizations.

theonedru
11-07-2011, 06:23 PM
Religious political president nominees can scare people because faith has a habit of creeping into their politics and as such affecting everyone regardless of race or religion. look at the fact this was to be a country with freedom or religion (or lack thereof) yet somehow Christianity creeped in to try and control every facet of life it could and that still affects deeply on a daily basis. Basically the more extreme you have the less likely you will have in getting elected.

habsheaven
11-07-2011, 06:28 PM
Condemning someone for generalizing about a candidate based on his religion and then generalizing about a political party with equally biased and unfounded generalizations.

You are wrong on both counts. The % "not likely to vote for Romney because he is a Mormon" are not "generalizing", they are dismissing him because of his religious beliefs. And I did not "generalize" anything. I made NO claim that ALL Republicans are a certain way.

Once again, you read a comment and because of your bias, you FAIL to comprehend what is being said.

jaybird_1981
11-08-2011, 01:59 AM
Crazy? Yes. Sad? Not really. I think it is a universally accepted fact that 1/3 of all Republicans share the most extreme and perversed view on just about everything that is different from themselves. The other 2/3's spend their time defending the party from the criticisms brought on by their extreme peers.

Universally accepted fact huh?

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 08:29 AM
Let me pose this question to all of the conservative republican leaning people out there. Say that there was a canidate that shared all of your views. He was for cutting taxes, smaller gov't, anti-abortion, in favor of a strong military, and was a decorated war vet who loved his country. This canidate has everything that would make you drool in a politician. They only thing is that he was a muslim. Would you still vote for him? Why or why not?

habsheaven
11-08-2011, 08:40 AM
Universally accepted fact huh?

It is in MY universe. Check all the various polls asking questions like these:

Do you think Obama is a Muslim?
Do you think Obama was born outside of the US?
Do you think Romney is a non-christian?
Do you think Obamacare will create "death panels"?
Is it okay to exclude Muslims from holding cabinet positions?
Was Iraq involved in 9/11?

Who do you think is answering YES to these questions? My money is on the same 20% talked about in the thread.

andrewhoya
11-08-2011, 08:45 AM
It is in MY universe. Check all the various polls asking questions like these:

Do you think Obama is a Muslim?
Do you think Obama was born outside of the US?
Do you think Romney is a non-christian?
Do you think Obamacare will create "death panels"?
Is it okay to exclude Muslims from holding cabinet positions?
Was Iraq involved in 9/11?

Who do you think is answering YES to these questions? My money is on the same 20% talked about in the thread.

.........these are not opinion questions, they are factual......

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 08:55 AM
.........these are not opinion questions, they are factual......


And what proof do you have of these facts?

habsheaven
11-08-2011, 09:08 AM
.........these are not opinion questions, they are factual......

What's your point?

andrewhoya
11-08-2011, 09:10 AM
What's your point?


Who do you think is answering YES to these questions? My money is on the same 20% talked about in the thread.

Romney is openly Mormon, so no, the 20% of the people related to this thread would not be the only ones who said yes.

andrewhoya
11-08-2011, 09:12 AM
And what proof do you have of these facts?

Romney went to France for 30 months as a Mormon missionary, etc.

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 09:18 AM
Romney went to France for 30 months as a Mormon missionary, etc.


You have failed to adress any of the lies about president obama nor have you addressed the lie that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Not to mention that the morman religion is an offshoot of christanity.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ldswho.htm

habsheaven
11-08-2011, 09:20 AM
Romney is openly Mormon, so no, the 20% of the people related to this thread would not be the only ones who said yes.

I never said they were the only ones. My assertion was that they would be included in the group that said Yes.

andrewhoya
11-08-2011, 09:21 AM
You have failed to adress any of the lies about president obama nor have you addressed the lie that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Not to mention that the morman religion is an offshoot of christanity.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ldswho.htm

Obama is a Christian, and was born in Hawaii. Most people don't know about Iraq, but that doesn't make it an opinion. Happy now?

andrewhoya
11-08-2011, 09:21 AM
I never said they were the only ones. My assertion was that they would be included in the group that said Yes.

That's what I got from this statement:


Who do you think is answering YES to these questions? My money is on the same 20% talked about in the thread.

habsheaven
11-08-2011, 09:29 AM
Obama is a Christian, and was born in Hawaii. Most people don't know about Iraq, but that doesn't make it an opinion. Happy now?

I am still not grasping what you are implying. Who cares if the question has a factual answer or just an opinion? My point was, there are people out there that believe those statements to be fact or agree with the ones that are opinions. They tend to be the same group of people.

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 09:36 AM
Obama is a Christian, and was born in Hawaii. Most people don't know about Iraq, but that doesn't make it an opinion. Happy now?

You are right the average Joe on the street or on this website for that matter really does not know what went down on 9/11 and who was really involved and can only go by what the media and the gov't puts out there. To be honest we will never really know. As far as President Obama goes I really don't care what religion he follows. I voted for him and will vote for him because he is the best canidate available from what we have to chose from. Obama can be a muslim, jew, budhist, or hindu for all I care. It wouldn't change my view or any sane person's view of him one bit.

AUTaxMan
11-08-2011, 09:45 AM
In a recent ABC poll, the question - 20% said less likely.

Am I the only one who finds this crazy and sad?

The poll was asked to Republican voters.

While I personally think the issue is irrelevant, just to get the facts out, they questioned 438 "leaned republicans," and the poll has a 5.5% margin of error with respect to them.

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 09:47 AM
the poll has a 5.5% margin of error with respect to them.


What political poll dosen't have some type of margin of error to it?

AUTaxMan
11-08-2011, 09:54 AM
Also, the poll showed that 19% of leaned republicans have a "strongly unfavorable" feeling about the Mormon religion. Lines up with the 20%.

The poll also shows a significant trend in leaned republican voters moving away from focus on candidates' personal qualities and toward their positions on issues.

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 10:02 AM
Let me pose this question to all of the conservative republican leaning people out there. Say that there was a canidate that shared all of your views. He was for cutting taxes, smaller gov't, anti-abortion, in favor of a strong military, and was a decorated war vet who loved his country. This canidate has everything that would make you drool in a politician. They only thing is that he was a muslim. Would you still vote for him? Why or why not?


Mr Taxman I see that you are on board can I pose this question to you?

andrewhoya
11-08-2011, 10:09 AM
Mr Taxman I see that you are on board can I pose this question to you?

He'd get my vote as long as the dem running wasn't better

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 10:10 AM
he'd get my vote as long as the dem running wasn't better


+1

AUTaxMan
11-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Yes, if he is the best candidate. Religion shouldn't have anything to do with it.

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 10:39 AM
Yes, if he is the best candidate. Religion shouldn't have anything to do with it.


I agree with you wholeheartedly on that one. I must ask however why the big stink about President Obama supposedly being a muslim?

ensbergcollector
11-08-2011, 10:41 AM
if religion shouldn't matter, than why do candidates of both parties make it very public that they attend church and are men/women of faith?

andrewhoya
11-08-2011, 10:45 AM
if religion shouldn't matter, than why do candidates of both parties make it very public that they attend church and are men/women of faith?

Because it does matter for a lot of people- as shown by this poll.

habsheaven
11-08-2011, 11:01 AM
if religion shouldn't matter, than why do candidates of both parties make it very public that they attend church and are men/women of faith?

They do so because to do otherwise would alienate a large portion of voters.

AUTaxMan
11-08-2011, 11:04 AM
I agree with you wholeheartedly on that one. I must ask however why the big stink about President Obama supposedly being a muslim?

I never said he was a Muslim. The big stink is because he has done all he can to publicly kowtow to the Muslim political world.

sanfran22
11-08-2011, 11:06 AM
Why would religion have nothing to do with it? It obviously shapes your views and actions....Would you vote an outward, unapologetic satanist in as president?
As far as morman, or catholic, Christian ect, I wouldn't preclude them from the office. But I wouldn't vote a satanist in.

AUTaxMan
11-08-2011, 11:08 AM
Why would religion have nothing to do with it? It obviously shapes your views and actions....Would you vote an outward, unapologetic satanist in as president?
As far as morman, or catholic, Christian ect, I wouldn't preclude them from the office. But I wouldn't vote a satanist in.

It is highly unlikely that a satanist would share my political views.

sanfran22
11-08-2011, 11:12 AM
It is highly unlikely that a satanist would share my political views.

I agree, but religion would play a part in that. I'm just saying several religions wouldn't matter, but some would make an impact. I disagree whole heartedly with mormanism, but would vote for Romney regardless....

ensbergcollector
11-08-2011, 11:42 AM
i think at the end of the day, we all want to paint ourselves as kind, accepting, non-judgemental people, and yet we all have things that matter to us that don't to others.

stlcardinalsfan
11-08-2011, 11:53 AM
i am a republican. i will not vote for himmostly because of his liberal ideas,also because he is morman.

have you ever seen any of their programs or read any of their ideology? its crazy.i sure as hell dont want a man like him leading our country,besides hes just too fishy for me. somthing about him is shady

AUTaxMan
11-08-2011, 11:56 AM
i am a republican. i will not vote for himmostly because of his liberal ideas,also because he is morman.

have you ever seen any of their programs or read any of their ideology? its crazy.i sure as hell dont want a man like him leading our country,besides hes just too fishy for me. somthing about him is shady

In my opinion, the religion is nonsense. However, it is a peaceful religion, and I do not think his subscription to the Mormon faith will negatively affect his governance. I am more concerned about his policies.

sanfran22
11-08-2011, 11:57 AM
In my opinion, the religion is nonsense. However, it is a peaceful religion, and I do not think his subscription to the Mormon faith will negatively affect his governance. I am more concerned about his policies.

100% agree.

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 12:57 PM
I never said he was a Muslim. The big stink is because he has done all he can to publicly kowtow to the Muslim political world.


How is that any different from any other politician who has to brown nose to certian groups in order to accompolish his/her political agenda?

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 01:00 PM
In my opinion, the religion is nonsense. However, it is a peaceful religion, and I do not think his subscription to the Mormon faith will negatively affect his governance. I am more concerned about his policies.


Any religion that one wouldn't agree with would be considered nonesense. Feel free to worship whom or whatever you want or don't worship at all if that floats your boat as long as your religion or lack of one does not hinder your ability to lead our contry objectively.

AUTaxMan
11-08-2011, 01:01 PM
How is that any different from any other politician who has to brown nose to certian groups in order to accompolish his/her political agenda?

What political agenda is he promoting by those actions?

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 01:03 PM
i am a republican. i will not vote for himmostly because of his liberal ideas,also because he is morman.

have you ever seen any of their programs or read any of their ideology? its crazy.i sure as hell dont want a man like him leading our country,besides hes just too fishy for me. somthing about him is shady

I have never been to a morman church but I did see a doccumentary online that was clowning the morman religion. But you can only take it with a grain of salt. Pick any religion or atheism for that matter and you will find an online doccumentary or website clowing it. Your best bet is to judge a religion by it's followers, not a handful of religious extremists or some online propaganda written by the competition.

mrveggieman
11-08-2011, 01:05 PM
What political agenda is he promoting by those actions?


Any politician has to cater to different groups with different viewpoints. Take the middle east for example. It is mainly muslim save for the jews in israel. No matter who the president is he/she has to walk on a thin line to cater to both sides and not to appear to offend one or the other even though we all know whose side america is really on.

stlcardinalsfan
11-10-2011, 02:33 AM
I have never been to a morman church but I did see a doccumentary online that was clowning the morman religion. But you can only take it with a grain of salt. Pick any religion or atheism for that matter and you will find an online doccumentary or website clowing it. Your best bet is to judge a religion by it's followers, not a handful of religious extremists or some online propaganda written by the competition.


a couple years ago dish network had the morman channel,besides i know some mormans lol.but man some of their beleifs are just way too far out there for me,especially if he is trying to be president.

jlzinck
11-10-2011, 07:47 AM
The fact that he is a Mormon only comes up because he has an R next to his name.