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MadMan1978
11-11-2011, 03:18 PM
Daune said something in a separate thread I though was interesting...

He said ..."until we fix our own problems all foreign aid needs to stop."

Ok so lets have a REAL Debate Ladies and gentlemen on this topic....

rules are simple USE YOUR OWN WORDS AND THOUGHTS....

no outside links...please begin....and yes i will add a few posts and comments....

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 03:21 PM
I been saying this for 24 years...ever since i realized at my young age America had homeless people...

MadMan1978
11-11-2011, 03:29 PM
I am not so sure will be able to do this....

money will buy friends and well in this world peace.....

habsheaven
11-11-2011, 03:43 PM
I been saying this for 24 years...ever since i realized at my young age America had homeless people...

Don't kid yourself. Most of the people in here that want to stop foreign aid are the same people who want the poor/homeless to take care of themselves.

Based on everything I hear on these boards everyday I can only imagine they want the foreign aid money to be spent on paying down the debt and nothing else.

pwaldo
11-11-2011, 03:52 PM
money will buy friends and well in this world peace.....

If you have to pay somebody to be your friend....they aren't your friend.

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 04:36 PM
Don't kid yourself. Most of the people in here that want to stop foreign aid are the same people who want the poor/homeless to take care of themselves.

Based on everything I hear on these boards everyday I can only imagine they want the foreign aid money to be spent on paying down the debt and nothing else.
You're probably right...:ashamed0001:

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 04:36 PM
if you have to pay somebody to be your friend....they aren't your friend.
+1

sanfran22
11-11-2011, 04:38 PM
How about we give everyone in this country a million dollars. Will that solve the problem??

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 04:42 PM
How about we give everyone in this country a million dollars. Will that solve the problem??
Not really, bread would just be 75k for a loaf the next day...i've got an idea how about helping to raise minimum wage since it's no where were it should be?

sanfran22
11-11-2011, 04:44 PM
Not really, bread would just be 75k for a loaf the next day...i've got an idea how about helping to raise minimum wage since it's no where were it should be?

Raise the minimum wage and see what happens as well.....

tutall
11-11-2011, 04:48 PM
Not really, bread would just be 75k for a loaf the next day...i've got an idea how about helping to raise minimum wage since it's no where were it should be?

Wouldnt that do the same thing as giving everyone a million dollars.... If companies have to pay their employees more doesnt that raise the prices?

Back ontopic however... I think there is some necessary foreign aid... I think there is a balance that needs to be kept and I dont have a problem with things such as dropping supplies and such. I think it would be much better off coming from organizations such as United Way or other charities but I am not for seeing people starve... The aidI do however have issues with is money to repair infrastructure or prop up governments...

And to Habs... I dont think anyone is against people who truly need the help... I am all for giving monthly checks to someone who is truly disabled or needs the help... What I and many others on here are against is handing a check to someone with an Iphone in one hand and keys to a new vehicle in the other... I dont want to see anyone starve but that is what food banks and local charities are for.

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 04:48 PM
Raise the minimum wage and see what happens as well.....
Ya, it's great! Nothing helps country morale like keeping the struggling...struggling...

tutall
11-11-2011, 04:49 PM
Ya, it's great! Nothing helps country morale like keeping the struggling...struggling...

So... if you increase minimum wage do you think companies will keep prices where they are and just bite the bullet in profits?

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 04:52 PM
Wouldnt that do the same thing as giving everyone a million dollars.... If companies have to pay their employees more doesnt that raise the prices?

Back ontopic however... I think there is some necessary foreign aid... I think there is a balance that needs to be kept and I dont have a problem with things such as dropping supplies and such. I think it would be much better off coming from organizations such as United Way or other charities but I am not for seeing people starve... The aidI do however have issues with is money to repair infrastructure or prop up governments...

And to Habs... I dont think anyone is against people who truly need the help... I am all for giving monthly checks to someone who is truly disabled or needs the help... What I and many others on here are against is handing a check to someone with an Iphone in one hand and keys to a new vehicle in the other... I dont want to see anyone starve but that is what food banks and local charities are for.

Not sure if you realize this or not, but those are closing down in record numbers. Where i'm from the busing routes are going to be closing down since funding is not there. See the thing is people don't realize is when the country suffers the poor get hit even harder, because the programs, etc. are the first things to be shut down...trufax...but 85% of the posters on here have no idea about that because they don't need the programs so they have no clue what gets cut and what doesn't...just an FYI...

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 04:56 PM
So... if you increase minimum wage do you think companies will keep prices where they are and just bite the bullet in profits?
No, they are not...and that's why this country is where it's at right now...some one on minimum wage gets a .25 raise and the prices go up .50. That's the American way, right? Keep the struggling...struggling?

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:01 PM
Not sure if you realize this or not, but those are closing down in record numbers. Where i'm from the busing routes are going to be closing down since funding is not there. See the thing is people don't realize is when the country suffers the poor get hit even harder, because the programs, etc. are the first things to be shut down...trufax...but 85% of the posters on here have no idea about that because they don't need the programs so they have no clue what gets cut and what doesn't...just an FYI...

They are closing down... I get that completely... The company I work for partners with several local charities and they come in begging for money all the time. They also gave our local division of my company 10K to distribute as we see fit to charities and decided to match all contributions out of our paychecks dollar for dollar to the 403(c) charity of our choice... notice that all come straight from a corporation not the government. When you look at the root of charities and food banks the private sector does that a thousand times better than the government could ever dream of.

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:03 PM
No, they are not...and that's why this country is where it's at right now...some one on minimum wage gets a .25 raise and the prices go up .50. That's the American way, right? Keep the struggling...struggling?

Thats exactly how it works... so raise the entire workforce by a dollar and prices fluctuate to shadow that raise....

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:03 PM
They are closing down... I get that completely... The company I work for partners with several local charities and they come in begging for money all the time. They also gave our local division of my company 10K to distribute as we see fit to charities and decided to match all contributions out of our paychecks dollar for dollar to the 403(c) charity of our choice... notice that all come straight from a corporation not the government. When you look at the root of charities and food banks the private sector does that a thousand times better than the government could ever dream of.
Ya, that speaks volumes for the government in this country...

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:04 PM
Ya, that speaks volumes for the government in this country...

im not going to disagree with you on that

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:04 PM
Thats exactly how it works... so raise the entire workforce by a dollar and prices fluctuate to shadow that raise....
God Bless America?

sanfran22
11-11-2011, 05:05 PM
Ya, that speaks volumes for the government in this country...

Yet you want them to make the rules...sounds like a plan to me.

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:05 PM
im not going to disagree with you on that
It wouldn't help you look intelligent to do so...:winking0071:

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:09 PM
Yet you want them to make the rules...sounds like a plan to me.
When have i ever said that? I'm 35 years old and have NEVER voted in my life because every candidate i ever saw was complete garbage...i've completely said the opposite and i think the government has way to much power...but people keep voting people in that help their own INDIVIDUAL needs...actually by people voting worthless people in office is only making the government stronger, IMO...but thanks for not understanding one word i've ever said about the government!

sanfran22
11-11-2011, 05:11 PM
When have i ever said that? I'm 35 years old and have NEVER voted in my life because every candidate i ever saw was complete garbage...i've completely said the opposite and i think the government has way to much power...but people keep voting people in that help their own INDIVIDUAL needs...actually by people voting worthless people in office is only making the government stronger, IMO...

But you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side the gov't has too much power, and on the other they need to raise the minimum wage...Can't have it both ways...you constantly contradict yourself.

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:13 PM
But you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side the gov't has too much power, and on the other they need to raise the minimum wage...
The government is suppose to help it's country in need...how's that working out for us so far?

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:14 PM
The government is suppose to help it's country in need...how's that working out for us so far?

How would raising minimum wage help anything out.... And how many people making minimum wage are actually trying to support a family on it.... Most of the people I see making that are high school or college kids just working for beer or textbook money

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:14 PM
But you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side the gov't has too much power, and on the other they need to raise the minimum wage...Can't have it both ways...you constantly contradict yourself.
No, that's not a contradiction. That's your idea of twisting rules and your opinion of what the government represents...

duwal
11-11-2011, 05:15 PM
If you have to pay somebody to be your friend....they aren't your friend.


I will gladly be someones friend on here if they would like to pay me :party0048:

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:16 PM
How would raising minimum wage help anything out.... And how many people making minimum wage are actually trying to support a family on it.... Most of the people I see making that are high school or college kids just working for beer or textbook money
Why don't you look on-line and see how many people in this country are actually on minimum wage...you might be surprised...i know people who went to college for child day care and are making minimum wage...and i'm honestly blow away by you having no clue about the millions that make minimum wage...minimum wage represents the people struggling in america that's who and how it would help...

sanfran22
11-11-2011, 05:16 PM
The government is suppose to help it's country in need...how's that working out for us so far?

I'll say it one last time. You raise the minimum wage you will actually hurt the people you are supposedly trying to help. The gov't needs to get otu of the way on a lot of things if it truly wants to help. Sadly, they've created a culture that thinks the gov't is supposed to take care of you.

sanfran22
11-11-2011, 05:17 PM
Why don't you look on-line and see how many people in this country are actually on minimum wage...you might be surprised...i know people who went to college for child day care and are making minimum wage...

Who honestly thinks a child day care job is college degree worthy? That's a horrible choice and shame on the college for allowing that.

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:18 PM
Who honestly thinks a child day care job is college degree worthy? That's a horrible choice and shame on the college for allowing that.

+1

Not my problem they are an idiot...

As far as the millions making minimum wage howmany of those people are trying to support a family?

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:20 PM
Who honestly thinks a child day care job is college degree worthy? That's a horrible choice and shame on the college for allowing that.
I wouldn't let a young adult take care of my child without some kind of training. Would you?

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:22 PM
I wouldn't let a young adult take care of my child without some kind of training. Would you?

Without training... NO... Without college training I do every day

I did the research for you...

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the median annual income of a U.S. worker is $32,140. Federal minimum wage is currently $5.85 an hour, or about $11,500 per year just above the poverty line. Of the 76.5 million people paid by the hour in the United States in 2006, 2.2% make minimum wage or less. Here are some generalizations we can make about minimum wage workers:

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/10/09/who-earns-the-minimum-wage/

And before you crucify me for using a blog it is linked directly to the dept of labor website so you can check that as well

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:23 PM
Also... I am talking federal minimum wage... not state legsilated

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:25 PM
+1

Not my problem they are an idiot...

As far as the millions making minimum wage howmany of those people are trying to support a family?
Here's a graph from 2006...imagine how it looks for 2011...

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2006/08/who-earns-the-minimum-wage-single-parents-or-suburban-teenagers

How many women do you know with kids by 21 years old? Where i'm from A LOT...it amazes me that people are so oblivious to what America looks like as a whole and not just in their neighborhood...

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:27 PM
Without training... NO... Without college training I do every day

I did the research for you...

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the median annual income of a U.S. worker is $32,140. Federal minimum wage is currently $5.85 an hour, or about $11,500 per year — just above the poverty line. Of the 76.5 million people paid by the hour in the United States in 2006, 2.2% make minimum wage or less. Here are some generalizations we can make about minimum wage workers:

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/10/09/who-earns-the-minimum-wage/

And before you crucify me for using a blog it is linked directly to the dept of labor website so you can check that as well
I can go on the internet and show you that america is the wealthiest country in america and it has one of the worst health care in the world. What does that tell you? What about the record number of people that have 0% healthcare? Or how about the 9% unemployment in america. Which we all know is probably closer to 20%...

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:31 PM
Without training... NO... Without college training I do every day

I did the research for you...

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the median annual income of a U.S. worker is $32,140. Federal minimum wage is currently $5.85 an hour, or about $11,500 per year just above the poverty line. Of the 76.5 million people paid by the hour in the United States in 2006, 2.2% make minimum wage or less. Here are some generalizations we can make about minimum wage workers:

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/10/09/who-earns-the-minimum-wage/

And before you crucify me for using a blog it is linked directly to the dept of labor website so you can check that as well
To my knowledge you want training you go to school for it, period...100% of the people i know at my GF day-care went some sort of college for it and their day-care WILL NOT hire without it...

habsheaven
11-11-2011, 05:34 PM
Without training... NO... Without college training I do every day

I did the research for you...

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the median annual income of a U.S. worker is $32,140. Federal minimum wage is currently $5.85 an hour, or about $11,500 per year just above the poverty line. Of the 76.5 million people paid by the hour in the United States in 2006, 2.2% make minimum wage or less. Here are some generalizations we can make about minimum wage workers:

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/10/09/who-earns-the-minimum-wage/

And before you crucify me for using a blog it is linked directly to the dept of labor website so you can check that as well

Wow. I was going to ask how much it was. We have 2 minimum wages in my province. $10.00 for experienced workers and $9.50 for inexperienced. I wonder how we manage to do it? Hmmm???

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:34 PM
Here's a graph from 2006...imagine how it looks for 2011...

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2006/08/who-earns-the-minimum-wage-single-parents-or-suburban-teenagers

How many women do you know with kids by 21 years old? Where i'm from A LOT...it amazes me that people are so oblivious to what America looks like as a whole and not just in their neighborhood...

From the reading....

Data from the Department of Labor show that most minimum wage-earners are young, part-time workers and that relatively few live below the Poverty line.

Relatively few Americans earn the federal minimum wage.[1] In 2005, 1.9 million Americans reported earning $5.15 or less per hour.[2] This amounted to 2.5 percent of all workers earning hourly wages and 1.5 percent of all workers in the United States. But these numbers include workers who also earn tip income

Minimum wage workers under 25 are typically not their family's sole breadwinner. Rather, they live in middle-class households that do not rely on their earnings. For the most part, they have not finished their schooling and are working part-time jobs. These workers represent the largest group that would directly benefit from a higher minimum wage.

Here are a few important characteristics of the teenagers and young adults who earn the minimum wage or less:

Fully 67 percent work part-time jobs.
Their average family income is $64,000 per year.
Only 17 percent live at or below the Poverty line, while 65 percent enjoy family incomes over twice the Poverty line.[5]
They have less education than the population as a whole. Fully 36 percent have not completed high school, and 21 percent have only a high school degree. Another 37 percent have taken college courses but do not yet have a bachelor's degree; many of these are college students working part-time while in school.
Fully 65 percent are women.
Only 5 percent are married.


Do you want me to keep going... People that earnthe minimum wage are not the breadwinners.... their income is rarely relied upon...

tutall
11-11-2011, 05:35 PM
Wow. I was going to ask how much it was. We have 2 minimum wages in my province. $10.00 for experienced workers and $9.50 for inexperienced. I wonder how we manage to do it? Hmmm???

Actually... it is higher than that now...I want to say like 7.25 per hour or something

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:38 PM
From the reading....

Data from the Department of Labor show that most minimum wage-earners are young, part-time workers and that relatively few live below the Poverty line.

Relatively few Americans earn the federal minimum wage.[1] In 2005, 1.9 million Americans reported earning $5.15 or less per hour.[2] This amounted to 2.5 percent of all workers earning hourly wages and 1.5 percent of all workers in the United States. But these numbers include workers who also earn tip income

Minimum wage workers under 25 are typically not their family's sole breadwinner. Rather, they live in middle-class households that do not rely on their earnings. For the most part, they have not finished their schooling and are working part-time jobs. These workers represent the largest group that would directly benefit from a higher minimum wage.

Here are a few important characteristics of the teenagers and young adults who earn the minimum wage or less:

Fully 67 percent work part-time jobs.
Their average family income is $64,000 per year.
Only 17 percent live at or below the Poverty line, while 65 percent enjoy family incomes over twice the Poverty line.[5]
They have less education than the population as a whole. Fully 36 percent have not completed high school, and 21 percent have only a high school degree. Another 37 percent have taken college courses but do not yet have a bachelor's degree; many of these are college students working part-time while in school.
Fully 65 percent are women.
Only 5 percent are married.


Do you want me to keep going... People that earnthe minimum wage are not the breadwinners.... their income is rarely relied upon...
Of course you are right...:winking0071:

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:41 PM
Wow. I was going to ask how much it was. We have 2 minimum wages in my province. $10.00 for experienced workers and $9.50 for inexperienced. I wonder how we manage to do it? Hmmm???
Canada actually offers healthcare to all citizens and college to all also, right? From my understanding they also offer mothers 3 week maternity leave too, right? Sounds like a country who cares about their citizens...

WOW! Two different minimum wages? That's interesting...in Ohio it's $7.25, impressive, huh? Richest country in the world...

habsheaven
11-11-2011, 05:47 PM
Canada actually offers healthcare to all citizens and college to all also, right? From my understanding they also offer mothers 3 week maternity leave too, right? Sounds like a country who cares about their citizens...

WOW! Two different minimum wages? That's interesting...in Ohio it's $7.25, impressive, huh? Richest country in the world...

That's funny. No we don't get free college admission. But we do get 12 months leave, which can be taken by either the wife or husband, or shared if they want.

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:49 PM
That's funny. We get 12 months, which can be taken by either the wife or husband, or shared if they want.
WOW! Truly impressive...you don't want to know what America's is. It more or less depends on how much money you make in America is...surprised?

Just out of curiosity how much is your average gas and how much does a loaf of bread and milk cost?

habsheaven
11-11-2011, 05:51 PM
WOW! Truly impressive...you don't want to know what America's is. It more or less depends on how much money you make in America is...surprised?

Just out of curiousity how much is your average gas and how much does a loaf of bread and milk cost?

To be honest, I just assumed all developed countries had adequate maternity leave for their citizens. You don't want to know how much we pay for everyday things.

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:55 PM
To be honest, I just assumed all developed countries had adequate maternity leave for their citizens. You don't want to know how much we pay for everyday things.
You don't even wanna know...

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 05:56 PM
To be honest, I just assumed all developed countries had adequate maternity leave for their citizens. You don't want to know how much we pay for everyday things.
Please, tell me...where i'm from gas is 3.75 and crappy bread is 1.19 and lowest i can get milk is 2.99 a gallon...

MadMan1978
11-11-2011, 06:03 PM
If you have to pay somebody to be your friend....they aren't your friend.

We have been doing this for 100 years...this includes all the war time efforts and those efforts of rebuilding war torn regions thorough out the world....now it will be the middle east....

MadMan1978
11-11-2011, 06:05 PM
Please keep the debate on target....I am not sure where you guys went...

Hilfiger1975
11-11-2011, 06:07 PM
We have been doping this for 100 years...this includes all the war time efforts and those efforts of rebuilding war torn regions thorough out the world....now it will be the middle east....
Kinda sad actually...considering American is in dire need of change...and we have homeless walking around in record numbers...

habsheaven
11-11-2011, 06:11 PM
Please, tell me...where i'm from gas is 3.75 and crappy bread is 1.19 and lowest i can get milk is 2.99 a gallon...

Okay a quick conversion from gallon to litre puts our gas at approx. $4.75/gallon right now. I am just guessing at the cost of bread. At a grocery store the cheapest you will find it (not on sale) is about $2.30. We usually go to the "bread store" and cut out the middle man and get it for $1.49 a loaf. Milk costs vary from province to province due to the dairy boards which regulate the prices. In Nova Scotia, where I live, milk is probably the most espensive in the country. Milk is sold in litres so I will compare your $2.99 gallon to our $6.49 4-litre jug. A gallon holds about 3.785 litres so that would make a gallon cost approx. $6.15 here.


Okay, back on topic. I actually think every country should take better care of their own FIRST. But I also recognize the fact that wealthy countries can not turn their backs on the TRULY needy around the world.

MadMan1978
11-11-2011, 06:25 PM
None of those posts have to do with this topic


stay on topic

mrveggieman
11-11-2011, 09:21 PM
I have been off line most of the day but if I could add my two cents except for humanitarian missions such as natural disaster relief america needs to minds its own business and take care of home. If the countries in the middle east including america's bff israel want to act like fools let them. We need to stay out of it. Of course america has an agenda, they want to have access to all of the oil and natural recources over there and they have a sick fettish with israel so we can keep dreaming about america getting out of the middle east but don't hold your breath.

sanfran22
11-11-2011, 09:26 PM
A sick fetish with Isreal? What a joke. Make no doubt about it, Israel is gonna get lit up soon. Turkey, Russia, Iran will all probably be involved. They will overcome in the end, but are gonna get conned by a "peace" treaty.

duane1969
11-12-2011, 01:23 PM
I have been AWOL for 24 hours so I missed most of this thread. I will say this.

I support foreign aide to 3rd world countries to help with food, medical care, housing/shelters, etc. When a country's GDP is a few hundred million then a $50 million foreign aide package can do wonders for them, assuming the aide doesn't end up in the hands of rebels or a dictator while those in need continue to suffer (as is often the case).

I do not support foreign aide for nation building. If the aide is being used for military efforts, government buildings, political efforts, weapons purchases, etc. then we need to keep the money at home. Sending millions or billions to other countries to support their war effort while our people do without is out of the question.

And I don't see why using foreign aide that we keep to pay down the national debt is a bad thing. Last time I checked the national debt is the 400 lb. gorilla in the room.