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View Full Version : I don't buy the Ron Paul Hype



TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 07:54 PM
I watched the GOP debate last week. I will say I was impressed with Paul. He did really well and he made some points I totally agree with. Out of all of the GOP contenders, if somebody from the GOP has to win, I support Huntsman but Paul would be fine as well as I do like his policy on the Patriot Act, our wars and Israel.

But Ron Paul is in the same position Obama was three years ago. As if he was the messiah. People think Ron Paul is the true answer to America when no one person truely is the answer. Who is to say Congress won't resist to Paul the way Congress has resisted Obama? How do we know Ron Paul will become president WITHOUT being bought? Obama was bought. All of these politicians have been bought- including Paul. He has been in Congress for the last 14 years. There is no "outsider" in this race.

I just want a president who will stick to their guns and won't be bought and controlled by special interest groups and corporations. Ron Paul might mean well but if he gets into the White House I expect more of the same.

andrewhoya
11-27-2011, 07:56 PM
How do we know any candidate will succeed? Did anyone actually know Lincoln would be one of the best Presidents of all time? It's all guess-and-check.

FWIW, I am hoping Paul wins.

TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 07:58 PM
I'm not talking about succeeding, I am talking about the more of the same. Was Lincoln bought 150 years ago? Did the special interest groups control HIM?

andrewhoya
11-27-2011, 08:01 PM
I'm not talking about succeeding, I am talking about the more of the same. Was Lincoln bought 150 years ago? Did the special interest groups control HIM?

I was basing my comment off of this:


People think Ron Paul is the true answer

From what I have heard him say, he will not back down when Congress tells him 'no'. He hasn't changed any of his ideas significantly from years ago when he began running, I believe, unlike others.

TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 08:04 PM
And what I am saying is there are people who really do believe Ron Paul is the answer. As if he will cure all of our problems. And just like how people found out Obama doesn't walk on water, they will soon find out Ron Paul doesn't either. How many times do people get behind a certain candidate, sometimes they get elected and then it turns out different?

Why should I believe Ron Paul actually will create jobs? Why should I believe we will finally get out of this mess with ANYBODY in there?

duane1969
11-27-2011, 08:06 PM
I understand where you are coming from and agree wholeheartedly. The simple reality is that money controls the world. You can take the most pure candidate and give him 6 months in office and he will be in someone's pocket.

Obama is clearly in the pocket of the "green" energy people. Bush had obvious interests in big oil companies. The next president will be just as corruptable if he/she isn't already corrupted by the time he/she is sworn in.

You make a valid point concerning Paul getting anything done. His ideas are considered somewhere between radical and unreasonable and will definitely get some resistance if he is POTUS, especially since everyone is Congress and the Senate is already in someone's pocket.

Remember the good ole days when it was possible to become POTUS without a 7 figure bank account? (OK, maybe not remember but at least we can read about it in history books LOL)

TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 08:13 PM
Well in some way it was possible. But think of Andrew Jackson, he BECAME rich by marrying a rich wife.

I just wish somebody in Congress would step up, say lobbying is wrong and pass legislation to outlaw lobbying and restrict campaign contributions.

Personally me, if I was running for President, I would only accept donations up to $100 from regular people and small businesses. No corporations like Solyndra or Sachs.

Here is the problem, I would never get elected.

I LOL at the people who call Cain an outsider since he was chairman of the Federal Reserve in K.C.

I more than likely will be voting for Obama in 2012. I don't expect Huntsman or Paul to be the nominee. They are the only two I could stand.

And the way Congress plays their games with Obama, I would expect the same thing under supposed President Paul only the party roles reversed.

Ron Paul has great ideas: let's see if they are actually implemented. We are screwed. Screwed. Screwed.

If Perry, Bachmann, Santorum, Gingrich, Romney or Cain becomes President please help us all!

duane1969
11-27-2011, 08:17 PM
And the way Congress plays their games with Obama, I would expect the same thing under supposed President Paul only the party roles reversed.


Most of the members of Congress got their jobs by running on a platform of changing the way things had been done during the first 2 years of Obama's administration.

By "playing games" they are doing what they promised, something that few politicians do anymore.

If you think that Congress' job is to just comply and give the president everything he wants then you need to check again. And clearly a Dem controlled Congress, Senate and White House didn't accomplish much either, so I don't see the problem.

TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 08:21 PM
When did I say that was the job of the Congress? They are allowed to debate things but they are resisting everything. First they kill Obama's jobs bill then they turn around and crucify him over jobs.

McConell HIMSELF said his number one goal was to make sure Obama is a one term president and that he will work with Obama if Obama gives into him. That's not gameplaying? His number one goal is to unseat Obama? Not create jobs, not find a way to handle the deficit but to unseat Obama? That is partisan to the core.

These are the same people who blasted Obama right out of the gates about a lack of job creation and it's been twelve months since the midterm elections and have we gotten any better? Have any jobs been created like the Republicans promised? It's more of the same.

freethrowtommy
11-27-2011, 08:22 PM
I honestly think that he is the best option the Republicans have...
I love that he wants to:


Revoke corporate personhood
End federal domestic surveillance
End the War on Drugs
Vastly reduce the size and use of the military
Give more power back to the States (rather than Federal Government)

He isn't the messiah and I still can't figure out how this got attached to Obama... just because someone is "popular" in the mainstream doesn't mean that he should be attached with this title... it is kind of stupid.

TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 08:25 PM
I honestly think that he is the best option the Republicans have...
I love that he wants to:


Revoke corporate personhood
End federal domestic surveillance
End the War on Drugs
Vastly reduce the size and use of the military
Give more power back to the States (rather than Federal Government)
He isn't the messiah and I still can't figure out how this got attached to Obama... just because someone is "popular" in the mainstream doesn't mean that he should be attached with this title... it is kind of stupid.

You don't get it? You don't remember the Obama hype three years ago? You don't remember the ridiculous expectations for Obama? Obama has done some things I like but we're not out of this mess. If anything we have gotten further into this.

I like Ron Paul's ideas too but I am not holding my breath for Ron Paul to be our savior and turn everything around overnight.

duane1969
11-27-2011, 08:59 PM
When did I say that was the job of the Congress? They are allowed to debate things but they are resisting everything. First they kill Obama's jobs bill then they turn around and crucify him over jobs.

McConell HIMSELF said his number one goal was to make sure Obama is a one term president and that he will work with Obama if Obama gives into him. That's not gameplaying? His number one goal is to unseat Obama? Not create jobs, not find a way to handle the deficit but to unseat Obama? That is partisan to the core.

These are the same people who blasted Obama right out of the gates about a lack of job creation and it's been twelve months since the midterm elections and have we gotten any better? Have any jobs been created like the Republicans promised? It's more of the same.

Easy cowboy, never said you said anything.

As for the jobs bill, spending money that we do not have to "create" jobs is not the answer. The stimulus package included billions for job creation and resulted in virtually no jobs. As ARRA funds dry up the jobs are disappearing because they were never sustainable. There is no reason to think that repeating the same mistakes over and over will ever result in anything but the same results over and over. Putting our country further into debt that will take hundreds of years to recover from to create jobs that last a year or two is fiscally irresponsible and extremely short-sighted.

As far as Paul's potential for success in "creating" jobs, I would expect the same result. You can not "create" jobs by giving money away. Jobs are created by the economy. During a recession unemployment naturally rises. As the recession improves unemployment will naturally improve as well.

For any president to "create" jobs he/she needs to make moves to improve the economy. As businesses recover and demand for their products increases they will naturally begin to hire more employees to meet the demand.

TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 09:22 PM
Easy cowboy, never said you said anything.

As for the jobs bill, spending money that we do not have to "create" jobs is not the answer. The stimulus package included billions for job creation and resulted in virtually no jobs. As ARRA funds dry up the jobs are disappearing because they were never sustainable. There is no reason to think that repeating the same mistakes over and over will ever result in anything but the same results over and over. Putting our country further into debt that will take hundreds of years to recover from to create jobs that last a year or two is fiscally irresponsible and extremely short-sighted.

As far as Paul's potential for success in "creating" jobs, I would expect the same result. You can not "create" jobs by giving money away. Jobs are created by the economy. During a recession unemployment naturally rises. As the recession improves unemployment will naturally improve as well.

For any president to "create" jobs he/she needs to make moves to improve the economy. As businesses recover and demand for their products increases they will naturally begin to hire more employees to meet the demand.

The Republicans eleven months ago pushed (and got) a tax cut for the rich which by the way they spent BILLIONS to give the richest their tax breaks and THAT has resulted in no jobs like they said there would be. The party that claims to hate to spend sure does spend as well. Both parties are hypocrites and this is an example of it.

A good way to trim to the recession would be:

#1 Kick out every illegal you can find.

#2 Repeal NAFTA.

But this is where I sympathize with Occupy Wall Street. I don't like how they smash banks and car windows but I do like what they are protesting: corporate greed. Corporations who export jobs overseas just because it's cheaper labor. And yet some of these people are rewarded. End the loopholes. Cut taxes for small businesses and those who keep jobs here in America.

duane1969
11-27-2011, 09:52 PM
I don't entirely disagree with you. Removing illegals certainly opens the job market some but not much. There just aren't that many illegals taking big dollar jobs. All that really does is free up low-earning labor jobs and most Americans who became unemployed in the last 3-5 years were working jobs earning a bit more. While they certainly could work those jobs most of those people will refuse a job making $8 an hour when they are used to making $50k a year.

Case in point. I saw a TV article on a woman who had been unemployed for like 4 years. The piece was supposed to highlight the job market problems but all it really did was highlight how stupid she was. At her previous job she had made something like $150k a year and she was only willing to take a job in the same job field making the same money.

As for NAFTA, repealing it probably hurts us more than it helps us. while it certainly allowed some manufacturing jobs to go south it also freed up trading for us with Mexico and Canada. Since we export a lot to both it could cost us as many jobs as it brought back if we repealed it.

If Obama wants to create jobs he could start by stopping giving trade concessions to other countries. For example, the stimulus included a restriction that any company that recieved a contract thru ARRA funding had to buy American made products to fill that contract. Canada's Prime Minister complained that it would hurt Canadian companies if that happened so Obama allowed a concession that lets materials for fulfilling ARRA contracts be purchased from Canadian companies. In essence, stimulus money is benefitting Canadian companies and the Canadian economy.

AUTaxMan
11-27-2011, 10:30 PM
The Republicans eleven months ago pushed (and got) a tax cut for the rich which by the way they spent BILLIONS to give the richest their tax breaks and THAT has resulted in no jobs like they said there would be.

I am very interested in the particulars of last December's tax cut for the rich. Please enlighten me.

INTIMADATOR2007
11-27-2011, 10:44 PM
When did I say that was the job of the Congress? They are allowed to debate things but they are resisting everything. First they kill Obama's jobs bill then they turn around and crucify him over jobs.

McConell HIMSELF said his number one goal was to make sure Obama is a one term president and that he will work with Obama if Obama gives into him. That's not gameplaying? His number one goal is to unseat Obama? Not create jobs, not find a way to handle the deficit but to unseat Obama? That is partisan to the core.

These are the same people who blasted Obama right out of the gates about a lack of job creation and it's been twelve months since the midterm elections and have we gotten any better? Have any jobs been created like the Republicans promised? It's more of the same.
Its every politicians job who is running for president to unseat the current president thats why we have elections every 4 years , The democrats want to make a republican president a one term president also . The republicans have passed 15 bills in the house that are REAL job creators However the Democrats in the senate REFUSE to hold votes on those bills . Therefore it's the Democrats who are stalling on job creation not the republicans . If its not a union job the democrats don't want it . With unemployment at 9% it was Harry Reid who said the Private sector jobs are fine it's Government jobs that are hurting .

TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 11:10 PM
Its every politicians job who is running for president to unseat the current president thats why we have elections every 4 years , The democrats want to make a republican president a one term president also . The republicans have passed 15 bills in the house that are REAL job creators However the Democrats in the senate REFUSE to hold votes on those bills . Therefore it's the Democrats who are stalling on job creation not the republicans . If its not a union job the democrats don't want it . With unemployment at 9% it was Harry Reid who said the Private sector jobs are fine it's Government jobs that are hurting .

Here is the thing though: McConnell is not running for president. He is supposed to be working WITH the president, not AGAINST him. He is playing the role of POLITICIAN and NOT PUBLIC SERVANT like he SHOULD BE!!!

Where are these 15 bills in the house? Source? How will they create jobs?

duane1969
11-27-2011, 11:30 PM
Where are these 15 bills in the house? Source? How will they create jobs?

http://boehner.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=267537

This .pdf breaks each one down and explains it

http://kevinmccarthy.house.gov/images/stories/Forgotten_15.pdf

Star_Cards
11-27-2011, 11:34 PM
did I miss something, when did Paul become the messiah? he has is base, but he really gets zero love during debates or from any media outlets.


fyi... all politicians are in the pockets of special interest. how else does pizza sauce get okayed as a vegetable in school lunches?!?!

TheGrapher
11-27-2011, 11:38 PM
did I miss something, when did Paul become the messiah? he has is base, but he really gets zero love during debates or from any media outlets.


fyi... all politicians are in the pockets of special interest. how else does pizza sauce get okayed as a vegetable in school lunches?!?!

What I meant by the messiah comment is us, the people, I have read hundreds upon hundreds upoin thousands of comments in support of Ron Paul as if he truly is the answer. This is not the press giving Ron Paul all of this love but my fellow Americans. It gives me the impression of false hope.

AUTaxMan
11-28-2011, 12:09 AM
Paul has no chance at winning the Republican nomination, and if he runs as an independent, it will be an Obama victory.

duane1969
11-28-2011, 12:23 AM
fyi... all politicians are in the pockets of special interest. how else does pizza sauce get okayed as a vegetable in school lunches?!?!

Dude!! Pizza sauce is totally a vegetable!!! Have you been living under a rock or something? :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/duane1969/tomato-plant.jpg

pghin08
11-28-2011, 10:06 AM
Dude!! Pizza sauce is totally a vegetable!!! Have you been living under a rock or something? :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/duane1969/tomato-plant.jpg

My pizza sauce plants didn't come in well this year. But at least they were better than my mozzarella bushes and pepperoni trees.

Star_Cards
11-28-2011, 10:32 AM
Dude!! Pizza sauce is totally a vegetable!!! Have you been living under a rock or something? :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/duane1969/tomato-plant.jpg

I prefer the plants that produce name brand sauce.

mrveggieman
11-28-2011, 12:54 PM
And what I am saying is there are people who really do believe Ron Paul is the answer. As if he will cure all of our problems. And just like how people found out Obama doesn't walk on water, they will soon find out Ron Paul doesn't either. How many times do people get behind a certain candidate, sometimes they get elected and then it turns out different?

Why should I believe Ron Paul actually will create jobs? Why should I believe we will finally get out of this mess with ANYBODY in there?

That's how politicians are. Welcome to Politics 101.

TheGrapher
11-28-2011, 04:01 PM
It doesn't make it right.

mrveggieman
11-28-2011, 04:07 PM
It doesn't make it right.

Agree but it is what it is until we come up with something better than bought and paid for politicians and the two party system.