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View Full Version : Romney spent nearly $100K to hide records



mrveggieman
12-06-2011, 09:29 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/romney-staff-spent-nearly-100000-to-hide-records/2011/12/05/gIQAkpYGYO_story.html?hpid=z2

sanfran22
12-06-2011, 09:38 AM
So what are you trying to say?

mrveggieman
12-06-2011, 09:53 AM
So what are you trying to say?


Read the article and come to your own conclusions. Critical Thinking 101. :winking0071:

sanfran22
12-06-2011, 09:56 AM
Read the article and come to your own conclusions. Critical Thinking 101. :winking0071:

That's what I figured...Did you see the amount of money The chief organizer spent to seal his records? Just curious...

ensbergcollector
12-06-2011, 10:21 AM
as a voter this bothers me, just as it has bothered me when others have done it. It is the whole, if you have nothing to hide, then why hide it. For all the knock on bush, most of his stuff was public knowledge. Obama threatened to sue his colleges if they released anything so we still don't have anything of his college life except what he has given us.

mrveggieman
12-06-2011, 10:34 AM
as a voter this bothers me, just as it has bothered me when others have done it. It is the whole, if you have nothing to hide, then why hide it. For all the knock on bush, most of his stuff was public knowledge. Obama threatened to sue his colleges if they released anything so we still don't have anything of his college life except what he has given us.


Your college records are generally private and cannot be released unless the student authorizes it or if compelled by law. Also I'm still waiting for bush to release his service record from when he did his tour in vietnam........:winking0071:

duane1969
12-06-2011, 10:37 AM
As a former technology staff member for the school district, I can atest that this isn't that uncommon.

Teachers commonly do not want their info left on the hard drive of a computer and request that the computer either be re-imaged or that they get to keep the hard drive.

Similarly, Romney's e-mails are private. He has the right to have them purged. When I left the technology department I deleted all of my e-mails.


Dolan said that in her 23 years as an aide to successive governors “no one had ever inquired about, or expressed the desire” to purchase their computer hard drives before Romney’s tenure.


Romney's tenure started in 2003, which is before most government offices had fully gone digital. Logic dictates that Dolan would have never had this request before. It is not a condemnation of Romney because nobody had done it before him. Also, with our current knowledge of how sensitive digital information is, it is just common sense to protect yourself and your privacy.

sanfran22
12-06-2011, 11:13 AM
Your college records are generally private and cannot be released unless the student authorizes it or if compelled by law. Also I'm still waiting for bush to release his service record from when he did his tour in vietnam........:winking0071:

Was Bush sent to vietnam? Was Clinton? This is about as old as the Obama Birth Certificate....
Here's something you may want to read.
http://www.factcheck.org/new_evidence_supports_bush_military_service_mostly .html

Star_Cards
12-06-2011, 12:46 PM
That's what I figured...Did you see the amount of money The chief organizer spent to seal his records? Just curious...

a somewhat odd reply to a thread about Romney considering your stance about blame bush or bush did it replies to issues with Obama.

Either way I'd hope you'd find this to be rather interesting. No evidence of wrong doing but it is rather curious of action with selling hard drives to employees with state records on them as well as the purchase of new systems.

sanfran22
12-06-2011, 12:50 PM
a somewhat odd reply to a thread about Romney considering your stance about blame bush or bush did it replies to issues with Obama.

Either way I'd hope you'd find this to be rather interesting. No evidence of wrong doing but it is rather curious of action with selling hard drives to employees with state records on them as well as the purchase of new systems.

Just playing his game. I asked for his take and got the usual smart alec answer.... I know what he is trying to do but find it interesting he has no take on the subject. I didn't blame anyone, just posted that it's not the first time it's happened. Probably going to be the norm here on out. Interesting fact, You can find bushes service record and school records pretty easily. As stated before, there is probably a lot of personal info on there that the libs would love to dig through (think sarah palin).

Star_Cards
12-06-2011, 01:03 PM
yeah. I get it. :)

I still find it odd that employees of a government organization would be able to buy their hard drives. I work for a large company and we pay to have old computers erased and destroyed. Selling them to workers would never happen here. I'd assume a government organization would have the same idea about that. Outside of government information you have the software rights issues as well. I guess these computers could have been stripped clean but still seems odd.

sanfran22
12-06-2011, 01:07 PM
yeah. I get it. :)

I still find it odd that employees of a government organization would be able to buy their hard drives. I work for a large company and we pay to have old computers erased and destroyed. Selling them to workers would never happen here. I'd assume a government organization would have the same idea about that. Outside of government information you have the software rights issues as well. I guess these computers could have been stripped clean but still seems odd.

Yeah, not sure on that. Maybe they are trying to not waste computers? Or maybe they are hiding something...who knows...

Star_Cards
12-06-2011, 01:15 PM
Yeah, not sure on that. Maybe they are trying to not waste computers? Or maybe they are hiding something...who knows...

true. I just know my company never does that. Not to say that no one does, but still odd.

duane1969
12-06-2011, 02:15 PM
yeah. I get it. :)

I still find it odd that employees of a government organization would be able to buy their hard drives. I work for a large company and we pay to have old computers erased and destroyed. Selling them to workers would never happen here. I'd assume a government organization would have the same idea about that. Outside of government information you have the software rights issues as well. I guess these computers could have been stripped clean but still seems odd.

Since the computers in question date back to 2003ish they would be outdated and not have any real value if refurbished. My guess is they would be no better than Pentium 2 processors with under 1.5GB of capability making them generally worthless for anything other than word processing or internet browsing. Refurbishing and upgrading them with a better processor, more RAM, a bigger hard drive and a better monitor would be more expensive than just buying a new computer.

In the same manner, they may not be able to be destroyed because of how the state laws read concerning destroying tax payer property. Here in WV we have to auction computers to the public or they have to be taken to a special approved disposal location where they are recycled for their materials. Even then we pull the hard drives and destroy them ourselves and we have to document the serial number of every recycled computer and report it to the state.

Without knowing how Mass. state laws read concerning this then it is hard to make a big deal of. Speaking for me personally, if I could buy the hard drive from my teacher-use computer when I leave I would since it is full of my lesson plans and bookmarks to websites.

duane1969
12-06-2011, 02:19 PM
true. I just know my company never does that. Not to say that no one does, but still odd.

Tax laws limit how corporations can handle these issues. I am sure AUTaxman could expand more than I can, but I think that most states have laws in place that would require that they report money from selling outdated company-use computers. I imagine the responsibility of reporting the sales amounts for tax purposes and then paying taxes on the money outweighs the few bucks they would make off of the computer, so they destroy them rather than give employees an option to buy them.

tsjct
12-06-2011, 02:33 PM
Same Song 2nd Verse! The liberal's want to talk about all the money Conservatives Hide but never want to talk about the liberals. What about JOHN CORZINE??? 1.2 BILLION stolen from the Middle Class. Obama is talking today about TR and saying we need fairness???? He say's he has roots in Kansas?? His roots are in the Middle East. I wonder if Bill Ayers, Von Jones, and all his other cronies are there with him. What about STOP THE DARN SPENDING!! His Auto Bailout, Stimulous, and all the other OBAMA spending has created NOTHING but more DEBT. I have to watch my Language LOL. So Darn is my new word.

Star_Cards
12-06-2011, 04:43 PM
Tax laws limit how corporations can handle these issues. I am sure AUTaxman could expand more than I can, but I think that most states have laws in place that would require that they report money from selling outdated company-use computers. I imagine the responsibility of reporting the sales amounts for tax purposes and then paying taxes on the money outweighs the few bucks they would make off of the computer, so they destroy them rather than give employees an option to buy them.

very true. I also know that one issue is removing NDA info as well as software. It's probably cheaper for them to pay a company that legally must wipe the hard drives of everything than hire someone in house to do so and worry about NDA info or getting hit with software piracy issues. Would think a state would have the same practices in place.

Star_Cards
12-06-2011, 04:49 PM
Same Song 2nd Verse! The liberal's want to talk about all the money Conservatives Hide but never want to talk about the liberals. What about JOHN CORZINE??? 1.2 BILLION stolen from the Middle Class. Obama is talking today about TR and saying we need fairness???? He say's he has roots in Kansas?? His roots are in the Middle East. I wonder if Bill Ayers, Von Jones, and all his other cronies are there with him. What about STOP THE DARN SPENDING!! His Auto Bailout, Stimulous, and all the other OBAMA spending has created NOTHING but more DEBT. I have to watch my Language LOL. So Darn is my new word.

UGH!!! So tired of rebuttals to a topic about one party being, "what about the other party." It's such a hypocritical stance and it drives me crazy. I get people have biases, but if you are truly capable of a bipartisan opinion one wouldn't chime in with "what about the other guy". So tired of people (here as well as everywhere) willing to hold a politician to the fire as long as he's on one side of the other but not both. I get that people typically vote for a specific party but would think they'd still be capable of seeing that both parties have flawed people (not saying this makes mitt flawed either).

I'm also not saying everyone here does this, but it happens a lot in the media, here, and everywhere. I don't see why people are so loyal to one party or the other. Both sides have just as many loser and scammers. I'd think more people would recognize that rather than sticking up for one side by deflecting like this.

rant over. :)

Star_Cards
12-06-2011, 04:53 PM
Since the computers in question date back to 2003ish they would be outdated and not have any real value if refurbished. My guess is they would be no better than Pentium 2 processors with under 1.5GB of capability making them generally worthless for anything other than word processing or internet browsing. Refurbishing and upgrading them with a better processor, more RAM, a bigger hard drive and a better monitor would be more expensive than just buying a new computer.

In the same manner, they may not be able to be destroyed because of how the state laws read concerning destroying tax payer property. Here in WV we have to auction computers to the public or they have to be taken to a special approved disposal location where they are recycled for their materials. Even then we pull the hard drives and destroy them ourselves and we have to document the serial number of every recycled computer and report it to the state.

Without knowing how Mass. state laws read concerning this then it is hard to make a big deal of. Speaking for me personally, if I could buy the hard drive from my teacher-use computer when I leave I would since it is full of my lesson plans and bookmarks to websites.

the age of the computers and them not being valuable makes sense which goes to my questions about why the employees would want them. still you'd think that their disposal method would be different. Also I'm not clear with this article... are they saying that they think some of this data was stuff that would typically have been archived or are they just trying to stir something up. I guess I'm not sure because I don't know if day to day communications and files are all archived in the governmental setting or not. I'm not sure what data was purged that should have been archived... if any.

AUTaxMan
12-06-2011, 04:58 PM
Can someone sum up the issue? I don't want to read the article. #toobusy/lazy

sanfran22
12-06-2011, 07:00 PM
Can someone sum up the issue? I don't want to read the article. #toobusy/lazy
Basically Romney spent money to wipe hard drives and some staff members took thiers with them. The insinuation is Romney is hiding something by the article and some in this thread.....

duane1969
12-06-2011, 10:27 PM
the age of the computers and them not being valuable makes sense which goes to my questions about why the employees would want them. still you'd think that their disposal method would be different. Also I'm not clear with this article... are they saying that they think some of this data was stuff that would typically have been archived or are they just trying to stir something up. I guess I'm not sure because I don't know if day to day communications and files are all archived in the governmental setting or not. I'm not sure what data was purged that should have been archived... if any.

There is actually a little bit of a market out there for older lower performing PCs that people want just to browse the internet, check emails and do some word processing. A computer with Windows 2000, a P2 1.8ghz processor and 1gb of RAM would be perfect for that. They typically sell for under $250 so they are perfect for a newbie PC user or someone wanting a PC for their kids to use or to take to college.

I don't tknow how they do things in Mass. but here in WV all state files are archived on a central server, but the e-mails are essentially temp files on an email server and can be deleted at any time by the person who has access rights to the email address. The emails are backed up (in case of a server crash) but subsequent back-ups delete any previous back-ups so by simply deleting an email from your inbox it will be deleted from the back-up server at midnight when the backup occurs.

The exception to the email aspect is if the person decides to download their emails. The current system is a Java based online email service that is housed on a state owned server. Through a few minor steps we can have our emails download onto our computer via Outlook. In that case their could be a security issue if the hard drive fell into the wrong hands. Anybody with a little bit of tech knowledge would be able to connect the hard drive as a slave drive and access all of the files on it without the need for a password.

In my opinion it is a lot of hype over nothing. Romney has the right to delete his emails. There is no law requiring public access to private correspondence. Any files concerning his job would be backed up and he wouldn't be allowed to delete them or have them purged. The only things he could delete would be personal.

AUTaxMan
12-06-2011, 10:45 PM
Basically Romney spent money to wipe hard drives and some staff members took thiers with them. The insinuation is Romney is hiding something by the article and some in this thread.....

Why is it news? This happens every day.

sanfran22
12-07-2011, 09:45 AM
Why is it news? This happens every day.

Because he's republican, just ask Sarah Palin.....:winking0071:

duane1969
12-07-2011, 09:55 AM
Why is it news? This happens every day.

Because this is the worst thing that the left can come up with to try and smear Romney's name.

I believe the term is "grasping at straws"...

mrveggieman
12-07-2011, 09:57 AM
Because this is the worst thing that the left can come up with to try and smear Romney's name.

I believe the term is "grasping at straws"...


Kind of like the whole Obama birth certificate thing huh? :winking0071:

duane1969
12-07-2011, 10:13 AM
Kind of like the whole Obama birth certificate thing huh? :winking0071:

Yes.

OBOMBA
12-07-2011, 06:12 PM
people dont hide good things from the public.

duane1969
12-07-2011, 06:32 PM
people dont hide good things from the public.

He wasn't hiding anything. He has a right to privacy where his personal communication and documents are concerned.

mrveggieman
12-08-2011, 08:52 AM
He wasn't hiding anything. He has a right to privacy where his personal communication and documents are concerned.


I have worked for both gov't and private sector jobs and if you use the company computers you have no expectation of privacy. All the jobs where I had where I had a computer access required me to sign a waiver saying that there should be no expectation of privacy and anything you do is subject to monitoring and recording. That includes surfing on non work related sites and accessing private email accounts. If Romney had something so private that he did not want the public to be aware of he should not be using gov't computers paid for by the tax payer. His behavior looks real suspucious to me.

pghin08
12-08-2011, 09:00 AM
He wasn't hiding anything. He has a right to privacy where his personal communication and documents are concerned.

Absolutely right. I don't want my e-mails at work going public, nor do I want my private, personal e-mail. Both contain things like SS numbers and account numbers. Do I want to hide my personal bank accounts and my client's accounts from the public eye? Yeah, just a little bit.

mrveggieman
12-08-2011, 09:07 AM
Absolutely right. I don't want my e-mails at work going public, nor do I want my private, personal e-mail. Both contain things like SS numbers and account numbers. Do I want to hide my personal bank accounts and my client's accounts from the public eye? Yeah, just a little bit.


I agree with you on that point and I don't think most legit businesses would leak out people's social or bank account numbers unless compelled to by law however what Romney did still looks real suspicious to me. He may have been destroying his personal banking info which is a legit reason but what's to say he wasn't hiding an affair or evidence of corruption? Just a little food for thought.

pghin08
12-08-2011, 09:25 AM
I agree with you on that point and I don't think most legit businesses would leak out people's social or bank account numbers unless compelled to by law however what Romney did still looks real suspicious to me. He may have been destroying his personal banking info which is a legit reason but what's to say he wasn't hiding an affair or evidence of corruption? Just a little food for thought.

To me, Romney's been in the public eye too long. He's been a big political player for long enough that if he had skeletons in his closet, somebody would have found them by now. From a moral perspective, I think Romney is head and shoulders above the other major contenders on that side. I don't include Ron Paul as a major contender, btw.

duane1969
12-08-2011, 12:52 PM
I have worked for both gov't and private sector jobs and if you use the company computers you have no expectation of privacy. All the jobs where I had where I had a computer access required me to sign a waiver saying that there should be no expectation of privacy and anything you do is subject to monitoring and recording. That includes surfing on non work related sites and accessing private email accounts. If Romney had something so private that he did not want the public to be aware of he should not be using gov't computers paid for by the tax payer. His behavior looks real suspucious to me.

They can monitor your activity such as what sites you visit, etc. They can not view your private correspondence. Even if you sign a waiver they still are required to abide by privacy laws within reason.

I also imagine that a governor has an expectation of privacy that you or I would not have. Because we have to submit to something does not mean that a governor will.