PDA

View Full Version : Kosher Cheesburgers



mrveggieman
12-12-2011, 02:48 PM
I was just messing around online and found this article. I know that we have a couple of jews on here but most of them stay out of P&R (you can't blame them with some of the knuckleheads on here). If any of them or anyone else want to respond to this feel free. We can also discuss why do most christians (except for seven day adventists) chose to ignore the dietary laws as perscribed in leviticus.

http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2008/03/kosher-cheeseburger-sacrilicious-or-sacriligeous.html

ensbergcollector
12-12-2011, 03:55 PM
I am on my phone but most christians ignore the.dietary laws because god, through a conversation with peter, overturns the old testament dietary laws.

gatorboymike
12-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Jesus also said "I came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it." It's funny how Christians read that and say "See, he abolished the law!" There are no exceptions, no conditions, no caveats in that statement.

PDawson21
12-12-2011, 04:04 PM
In a short and simple statement, the Old Testament is the Old Covenant, and the New Testament is the New Covenant. The same reason we don't do sacrifices anymore, Jesus paid the price.

gatorboymike
12-12-2011, 04:21 PM
LOL. You have to love the approach Christians take to the Old Testament. "All the parts I don't like, all the parts that tell me to do stuff that I don't wanna do, and all the parts that don't make God look marketable to a present-day consumer...those parts are all figurative, metaphorical and/or intended only for one specific group of people in one specific place in the world at once specific time in history. But all the parts of the Old Testament that I do like, THOSE parts are all literal, historically accurate and meant to apply to everyone, everywhere, forever, whether they like it or not and whether they even know it or not."

Guess what, Sunny Jim? The creation story that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to force into public schools is in the Old Testament. The Ten Commandments that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to force into government buildings are in the Old Testament. The Noah's Ark myth that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to claim is scientifically and historically accurate is in the Old Testament. And the part where it says you should execute homosexuals that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to get into the US Constitution is in the Old Testament. And since most Christians have never read the Bible, don't know what's in the Old Testament, don't care what's in the Old Testament, don't care that they don't know and don't care that they don't care, those four things are the only things they know are in the Old Testament.

PDawson21
12-12-2011, 04:25 PM
The Law's are what we are referring to, not the creation story as far as the Old Covenant. It shows that everything that in that prophesied in the Old Testament(promises, etc) was fulfilled in the New Covenant.

ensbergcollector
12-12-2011, 07:29 PM
Jesus also said "I came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it." It's funny how Christians read that and say "See, he abolished the law!" There are no exceptions, no conditions, no caveats in that statement.

and this is the problem with people who read the bible only in an attempt to debunk it. jesus was referring to himself as the fulfillment of the law. the greek word translated as fulfill can also mean to complete, satisfy, etc. This passage also comes in the middle of 3 chapters where jesus is challenging the current interpretation of the old testament scriptures. The entire sermon on the mount is basically jesus saying that the teachers have missed the point of the scriptures.
Jesus is basically saying "listen, the old testament does not lose it's purpose or relevance because i have come. In fact, i am the fulfillment of the prophesies." He proceeds to spend chapters talking about how the law should have been used and interpreted.

also, acts 10:9-16 clearly addresses the issue of food law.

ensbergcollector
12-12-2011, 07:31 PM
LOL. You have to love the approach Christians take to the Old Testament. "All the parts I don't like, all the parts that tell me to do stuff that I don't wanna do, and all the parts that don't make God look marketable to a present-day consumer...those parts are all figurative, metaphorical and/or intended only for one specific group of people in one specific place in the world at once specific time in history. But all the parts of the Old Testament that I do like, THOSE parts are all literal, historically accurate and meant to apply to everyone, everywhere, forever, whether they like it or not and whether they even know it or not."

Guess what, Sunny Jim? The creation story that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to force into public schools is in the Old Testament. The Ten Commandments that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to force into government buildings are in the Old Testament. The Noah's Ark myth that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to claim is scientifically and historically accurate is in the Old Testament. And the part where it says you should execute homosexuals that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to get into the US Constitution is in the Old Testament. And since most Christians have never read the Bible, don't know what's in the Old Testament, don't care what's in the Old Testament, don't care that they don't know and don't care that they don't care, those four things are the only things they know are in the Old Testament.

and yet again, you give up any thought that someone would take you seriously by including overwhelming proof that your hatred for all things christian precludes you from being able to have anything resembling a real opinion on christianity. save your hate for people who don't know you better.

duane1969
12-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Guess what, Sunny Jim? The creation story that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to force into public schools is in the Old Testament. The Ten Commandments that you people have wasted billions of dollars and millions of hours trying to force into government buildings are in the Old Testament. .

Guess what Gloomy Joe, the creation story was already in schools and the Ten Commandments were already in government buildings. It is the people that are too weak-minded to be around religion without having a seizure that have wasted money fighting it. You need to get your facts straight in the midst of your rants.

gatorboymike
12-12-2011, 08:58 PM
Guess what Gloomy Joe, the creation story was already in schools and the Ten Commandments were already in government buildings. It is the people that are too weak-minded to be around religion without having a seizure that have wasted money fighting it. You need to get your facts straight in the midst of your rants.

Sure, maybe back before people actually started enforcing the law.

gatorboymike
12-12-2011, 09:00 PM
and this is the problem with people who read the bible only in an attempt to debunk it. jesus was referring to himself as the fulfillment of the law. the greek word translated as fulfill can also mean to complete, satisfy, etc. This passage also comes in the middle of 3 chapters where jesus is challenging the current interpretation of the old testament scriptures. The entire sermon on the mount is basically jesus saying that the teachers have missed the point of the scriptures.
Jesus is basically saying "listen, the old testament does not lose it's purpose or relevance because i have come. In fact, i am the fulfillment of the prophesies." He proceeds to spend chapters talking about how the law should have been used and interpreted.

also, acts 10:9-16 clearly addresses the issue of food law.

See, you just did exactly what I said Christians do. Kindly point to the place where Jesus says "You don't have to follow Old Testament law anymore."

PDawson21
12-12-2011, 09:02 PM
GBMike....are you an atheist? (just wondering what you think is true)

ensbergcollector
12-12-2011, 09:04 PM
See, you just did exactly what I said Christians do. Kindly point to the place where Jesus says "You don't have to follow Old Testament law anymore."

this thread is about food. i showed exactly where in the bible the food issue is dealt with.

and sorry for doing what all christians do and going back to the greek origin of the word in question and explaining it which just so happened to go against the claim you were trying to make.

gatorboymike
12-12-2011, 09:05 PM
GBMike....are you an atheist? (just wondering what you think is true)

Yes.


this thread is about food. i showed exactly where in the bible the food issue is dealt with.

and sorry for doing what all christians do and going back to the greek origin of the word in question and explaining it which just so happened to go against the claim you were trying to make.

Sure, when you can stretch it beyond all reason to make it kinda-sorta-maybe agree with you, so you can make it say anything you want to suit your political agenda.

PDawson21
12-12-2011, 09:06 PM
this thread is about food. i showed exactly where in the bible the food issue is dealt with.

and sorry for doing what all christians do and going back to the greek origin of the word in question and explaining it which just so happened to go against the claim you were trying to make.

Agreed.

PDawson21
12-12-2011, 09:08 PM
Yes.



Sure, when you can stretch it beyond all reason to make it kinda-sorta-maybe agree with you, so you can make it say anything you want to suit your political agenda.

What's your thinking to this statement: (Just Wondering)
If you believe there is no God, and you are right, then you gain nothing.
If you believe there is no God and you are wrong, you lose everything.

If you believe there is a God and you are right, then you gain everything.
If you believe there is a God and you are wrong,(as in there is no God) then you lose nothing.

Therefore the wise man would believe there is a God based on logical thinking because there is not a chance to lose anything.

What would be your argument to this?

gatorboymike
12-12-2011, 09:09 PM
I'd say Pascal's Wager is one of the worst arguments Christians have ever cooked up, and if you can't see the many, many things that are horribly, horribly wrong with it, you're either not trying or you're not able.

PDawson21
12-12-2011, 09:13 PM
didnt say it was completely correct, just wondering what your argument was. You didnt give any reasons besides it was horrible. Thats not a reason.

ensbergcollector
12-12-2011, 09:15 PM
Yes.



Sure, when you can stretch it beyond all reason to make it kinda-sorta-maybe agree with you, so you can make it say anything you want to suit your political agenda.

again, i addressed the issue of this thread and explained why christians feel the way they do about food using scripture. I also dealt with your issues. i'm sorry i know the greek and what it means. sorry, but i can't exactly make the verse say whatever i want it to.

but no, i'm sure the bible info you probably get from anti-christian websites is more accurate than the original greek.

PDawson21
12-12-2011, 09:21 PM
again, i addressed the issue of this thread and explained why christians feel the way they do about food using scripture. I also dealt with your issues. i'm sorry i know the greek and what it means. sorry, but i can't exactly make the verse say whatever i want it to.

but no, i'm sure the bible info you probably get from anti-christian websites is more accurate than the original greek.


:) Scripture Interprets Scripture

*censored*
12-12-2011, 09:29 PM
Pascal's Wager is a bunch of crap. Here's why (100% taken from another site).

The problem with this argument is that it assumes that there is only one valid religion, God, or belief system to choose from, that of Christianity. Well that just isn’t so as there are plenty of religions, Gods, belief systems, and spiritual practices to choose from. In order to apply Pascal’s Wager, one would have to do the same for the other religions and Gods out there, just in case they are true as well, or else suffer the consequences. For instance, the Christian ought to be a follower of Islam too, just in case it is true, lest he/she be sent to hell by Allah, the Islamic God.

Also, the second problem is that it assumes that the possibility that the Christian doctrine that “everyone is going to hell unless they become a Christian and accept Jesus as their Savior” is a realistic and significant possibility. Perhaps they think it is even as probable as the possibility that there is no God. However, based on the arguments in this article and in others linked, it should be clear that that probability is pretty much zero by now.

Finally, few, if any, disbelievers disbelieve out of choice. It's not as if they know God is really there, but somehow willfully refuse to believe in it (for example, see if you can choose to truly believe that Australia does not exist). Most disbelievers disbelieve simply because they know of no compelling evidence or reasons to believe. If you want to convince unbelievers, show them some good evidence or reasons. Don't just say it's in their best interests to believe even if there is no God. A person cannot sincerely choose to believe in something, just because it is pragmatic to do so. Even if you said all the right prayers and attended church regularly, that would still not be the same thing as believing from the heart, and any real God would obviously see straight through that.

PDawson21
12-12-2011, 09:44 PM
My point was that he was an atheist, he doesn't believe a deity exist. Therefore, I was seeing what he thought about existence of a a god.

gatorboymike
12-12-2011, 10:15 PM
My point was that he was an atheist, he doesn't believe a deity exist. Therefore, I was seeing what he thought about existence of a a god.

Possible but highly unlikely.

duane1969
12-13-2011, 08:53 AM
Topic is about kosher food. Let's try to keep on topic please.

mrveggieman
12-13-2011, 08:53 AM
Let me throw this one out to our christian bretheren. Medical science has proven that a reduction in meat consumption is better for you. This correlates with some of the Kosher dietary laws. Are you suggesting that we should disregard the OT dietary requirements and medical science to eat things that have been proven to be not so healthy for us just because it tastes good? Remember no where in the bible does it say we have to stop going by the Kosher dietary laws.

ensbergcollector
12-13-2011, 09:06 AM
Let me throw this one out to our christian bretheren. Medical science has proven that a reduction in meat consumption is better for you. This correlates with some of the Kosher dietary laws. Are you suggesting that we should disregard the OT dietary requirements and medical science to eat things that have been proven to be not so healthy for us just because it tastes good? Remember no where in the bible does it say we have to stop going by the Kosher dietary laws.

i said nothing about eating things because they taste good. i said god, through his conversation with peter in acts 10, has done away with the old testament dietary laws.

mrveggieman
12-13-2011, 09:14 AM
i said nothing about eating things because they taste good. i said god, through his conversation with peter in acts 10, has done away with the old testament dietary laws.

Not disputing what God says but you don't think that he would want us to eat and drink items that would be healthy for our bodies?

AUTaxMan
12-13-2011, 09:58 AM
Not disputing what God says but you don't think that he would want us to eat and drink items that would be healthy for our bodies?

yes. he certainly wants us to take care of our bodies. doesn't change the fact that the dietary laws have been abolished.

duane1969
12-13-2011, 10:01 AM
Not disputing what God says but you don't think that he would want us to eat and drink items that would be healthy for our bodies?

Yes, but in all honesty, non-kosher food is the least of our worries. With soda, candy, cakes, chips, energy drinks and coffe a part of nearly everyone's daily intake, it is hard to make an argument for kosher foods.

ensbergcollector
12-13-2011, 10:10 AM
Not disputing what God says but you don't think that he would want us to eat and drink items that would be healthy for our bodies?

sorry you lost me at not disputing what God says but...


that said, yes God wants us to take care of our bodies. we are the temple for his spirit and need to act accordingly. But as duane pointed out, I see that as being more of an issue of not putting crab in our bodies that cause us to be unhealthy, die younger, etc.

also, i take most medical articles on food with a grain of salt. for every article that says (food a) is healthy, there is another that said the same food is unhealthy.

mrveggieman
12-13-2011, 10:31 AM
Yes, but in all honesty, non-kosher food is the least of our worries. With soda, candy, cakes, chips, energy drinks and coffe a part of nearly everyone's daily intake, it is hard to make an argument for kosher foods.


Ya'll should check out the Seven Day Adventists dietary guidelines. They discourage the use of caffine as well as also frowning about alcohol, tobacco, recreactional drugs and meat.

http://www.sdada.org/eatingwell.htm

http://www.sdada.org/aboutsda.htm