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mrveggieman
12-16-2011, 09:06 AM
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/school-outs-gay-teen-1261182.html

Star_Cards
12-16-2011, 09:27 AM
hmm. I get where the school was coming from even though it's not their place to come out for that person. They were acting from a place of concern, but this kid has the right to come out as he sees fit.

ensbergcollector
12-16-2011, 10:09 AM
i'm torn. i agree that the kid has the right to come out as he sees fit, but if a kid is getting in trouble at school, the school can't be asked to lie about why he is in trouble to protect his secret. Also, though not happy about it, it does say the kid agreed.

for me, the biggest issue here is the response of these advocacy groups. This is a perfect example of the workings of a large number of these groups that "represent" special interest groups. They don't actually care for the people affected, they are willing to take over any situation to better the cause they stand for, even if their "help" is unwanted and even makes things worse.

Star_Cards
12-16-2011, 10:35 AM
I'm torn as well. Had the school not acted and the kid committed suicide or was beaten or something by his abusers people would have asked why the school hadn't done anything. I assume that by outing them they approached his parents about bullying he'd be getting and told them why he was being bullied and it came up as that discussion. I doubt that they just sent a letter to their kids and said "your son is gay."

habsheaven
12-16-2011, 12:49 PM
The only thing the school should have done is called the parents of the kids doing the ridiculing and set them all down to discuss the ramifications of such behaviour. The VICTIM is not the one "getting in trouble" at school and he should not have to tell his parents why he is being picked on.

Triple Peanut
12-16-2011, 01:06 PM
why doesn't the school address the bullying on their end? i don't see how outing him to his parents improves the situation in any way. probably just give the bullies more ammo.

duane1969
12-16-2011, 01:09 PM
Alpine School District took the unusual step after the 14-year-old boy, whose name has not been released, created an advertisement about himself and his sexual orientation during a class project.

An aide later overheard other students ridiculing him and became concerned about bullying. Even though the boy was openly gay in school, he did not want to tell his parents.


He outed himself in public in the school. If he didn't want his parents to know then he should have kept it entirely secret, not revealed it to his entire schoool and then expected everyone to keep his secret from his parents.

You can not claim a right to privacy when you have exposed your secret to the entire school student body and staff.

habsheaven
12-16-2011, 01:25 PM
He outed himself in public in the school. If he didn't want his parents to know then he should have kept it entirely secret, not revealed it to his entire schoool and then expected everyone to keep his secret from his parents.

You can not claim a right to privacy when you have exposed your secret to the entire school student body and staff.

It's quite possible that he wanted his parents to know and set out to inform them indirectly by the actions he took at school. With that said, what does that have to do with how the school reacted? The school should be addressing the bullies, not the victim.

mrveggieman
12-16-2011, 01:40 PM
I look at this the same was as DADT. What you do in the privacy and comfort of your own bedroom is your own business not your schools or employeers. Not saying it is right but if you open up a can of worms and tell your peers in high school, college, the military, etc that you are gay why would you be surprised about they way you are treated? That being said that still does not give anyone the right to mock or put their hands on this kid and the school should have dealt with the bullies severly.

duane1969
12-16-2011, 10:26 PM
It's quite possible that he wanted his parents to know and set out to inform them indirectly by the actions he took at school. With that said, what does that have to do with how the school reacted? The school should be addressing the bullies, not the victim.

What should the school say to the parents?

"Mr. and Mrs. "Jones", we are aware that your son is being bullied. We know why he is being bullied, but we won't tell you because you have no right to know. Just accept that we are handling it properly and stay out of it."

I am sure his parents would be more than willing to be left out of the loop as to why their son is being harrassed, ridiculed and bullied at school.

habsheaven
12-16-2011, 10:51 PM
What should the school say to the parents?

"Mr. and Mrs. "Jones", we are aware that your son is being bullied. We know why he is being bullied, but we won't tell you because you have no right to know. Just accept that we are handling it properly and stay out of it."

I am sure his parents would be more than willing to be left out of the loop as to why their son is being harrassed, ridiculed and bullied at school.

They could say,

"Mr. and Mrs. Jones it has come to our attention that several students have been bullying your son. We have contacted their parents and discussed with them and the students why this is wrong and we have assurances that it will not happen again. You may want to discuss it with your son and stress upon him the fact that the school will not tolerate this behaviour and he should report any further bullying to yourselves or the school if it occurs."

There is no reason to mention what the nature of the taunts are. I hope in your line of work (you are a teacher, right?) that you take a little more time to consider your responses to these types of situations. I would be awfully disappointed if you approached my child's situation in the way you suggest above.

duane1969
12-17-2011, 10:06 AM
They could say,

"Mr. and Mrs. Jones it has come to our attention that several students have been bullying your son. We have contacted their parents and discussed with them and the students why this is wrong and we have assurances that it will not happen again. You may want to discuss it with your son and stress upon him the fact that the school will not tolerate this behaviour and he should report any further bullying to yourselves or the school if it occurs."

There is no reason to mention what the nature of the taunts are. I hope in your line of work (you are a teacher, right?) that you take a little more time to consider your responses to these types of situations. I would be awfully disappointed if you approached my child's situation in the way you suggest above.

As a teacher and husband of a former principal, I can tell you that parents expect the school to know why it is happening, not just that it is happening. It is easy to say what someone else should or could have done or what you would have done, but until you are standing there with an angry parent demanding answers, you just don't know.

habsheaven
12-17-2011, 05:23 PM
As a teacher and husband of a former principal, I can tell you that parents expect the school to know why it is happening, not just that it is happening. It is easy to say what someone else should or could have done or what you would have done, but until you are standing there with an angry parent demanding answers, you just don't know.

Your example is down right rude. I cannot imagine a school explaining the situation in the way you stated. The proper thing to say, if asked by the parents, is; "You should talk to your son about that."

I have had management training to handle situations similar to this. I know how I would react. I cannot imagine that people in education have not had similar training. If they haven't, they should.

duane1969
12-17-2011, 08:25 PM
Your example is down right rude. I cannot imagine a school explaining the situation in the way you stated. The proper thing to say, if asked by the parents, is; "You should talk to your son about that."

I have had management training to handle situations similar to this. I know how I would react. I cannot imagine that people in education have not had similar training. If they haven't, they should.

Not sure what type of management training you have had but I was in retail management before I got into education and things are handled quite differently in the education world. For starters, you deal with adults, teachers deal with juveniles. Legality regarding how to handle issues is vastly different between the two.

Easily 50% of parents are so uninvolved in their child's life that they have no idea who their children's friends are, much less what their sexual preference or sexual activity is. Yet the first time their "little angel" isn't getting fair treatment they run out and find a lawyer and sue the school because their child is so special and dear to them. These are the same parents who would sue a school for "hiding" from them that their student is a victim of gay bashing. The school did the only thing it could do and informed the parents of what was going on. The school had no legal basis to prevent the parents from knowing what was going on and the parents have full legal right to demand access to school records and full disclosure concerning their child.

As I said, if it was a secret then the kid should have not made a poster declaring his sexual preference. He could not logically have expected to out himself to the entire school body and staff and expect everyone to honor his right to privacy at the same time. That is counter-intuitive at the very least. Blaming the school because his parents were told is very misguided since nobody at the school would have even known if not for his own actions.

habsheaven
12-17-2011, 10:45 PM
I'm not sure what your rant has to do with the discussion. Fact remains the school could have handled it differently. The student's motives are irrelevant, as are his actions. The school should have been addressing the parents of the bullies, not the parents of the victim. Your scenario and expectations of how the victim's parents would react is a worst-case scenario. Before a situation gets to this point, MY response would have been adequate. YOUR's would have provoked even the most reasonable parents into acting unreasonably.


Not sure what type of management training you have had but I was in retail management before I got into education and things are handled quite differently in the education world. For starters, you deal with adults, teachers deal with juveniles. Legality regarding how to handle issues is vastly different between the two.

Easily 50% of parents are so uninvolved in their child's life that they have no idea who their children's friends are, much less what their sexual preference or sexual activity is. Yet the first time their "little angel" isn't getting fair treatment they run out and find a lawyer and sue the school because their child is so special and dear to them. These are the same parents who would sue a school for "hiding" from them that their student is a victim of gay bashing. The school did the only thing it could do and informed the parents of what was going on. The school had no legal basis to prevent the parents from knowing what was going on and the parents have full legal right to demand access to school records and full disclosure concerning their child.

As I said, if it was a secret then the kid should have not made a poster declaring his sexual preference. He could not logically have expected to out himself to the entire school body and staff and expect everyone to honor his right to privacy at the same time. That is counter-intuitive at the very least. Blaming the school because his parents were told is very misguided since nobody at the school would have even known if not for his own actions.

duane1969
12-18-2011, 01:33 PM
I'm not sure what your rant has to do with the discussion. Fact remains the school could have handled it differently. The student's motives are irrelevant, as are his actions. The school should have been addressing the parents of the bullies, not the parents of the victim. Your scenario and expectations of how the victim's parents would react is a worst-case scenario. Before a situation gets to this point, MY response would have been adequate. YOUR's would have provoked even the most reasonable parents into acting unreasonably.

My scenario of how parents react is spot on for the majority of parents. In this day and age of litigate first and ask questions later, I can promise you that the parents of that kid would have sued if the school had kept the truth from them.

Also, you are assuming that a 14 year old child has a right to privacy from his/her parents. They do not.

habsheaven
12-18-2011, 06:49 PM
My scenario of how parents react is spot on for the majority of parents. In this day and age of litigate first and ask questions later, I can promise you that the parents of that kid would have sued if the school had kept the truth from them.

Also, you are assuming that a 14 year old child has a right to privacy from his/her parents. They do not.

You are making an assumption on how the parents will react and are suggesting to just tell them straight out. IMO, that's wrong. As for a 14 year old and their privacy expectations; how old are your kids? I have raised 2 daughters almost 22 and 19. I have news for you. They have a RIGHT TO PRIVACY. If your kids at 14 aren't going to have, or didn't have, that RIGHT; I feel for them.

duane1969
12-19-2011, 08:10 AM
You are making an assumption on how the parents will react and are suggesting to just tell them straight out. IMO, that's wrong. As for a 14 year old and their privacy expectations; how old are your kids? I have raised 2 daughters almost 22 and 19. I have news for you. They have a RIGHT TO PRIVACY. If your kids at 14 aren't going to have, or didn't have, that RIGHT; I feel for them.

I am making assumptions based on experience. Parents do not hear that their kid is being harrassed and bullied and not question why.

Legally, 14 year olds do not have a right to privacy. It is not a personal issue. Comparing the rights that my kids have in our home and the rights that they have in a public school is narrow-minded. At home my kids are allowed to use cell phones and go on Facebook, they do not have that right at school. Comparing the two situations is off-base.