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View Full Version : Loma Linda, CA upset over possible mcdonalds opening in their city



mrveggieman
01-11-2012, 11:26 AM
For those of you who dont know Loma Linda is a city in southern ca with a large seven day adventist population and most of them are vegan/vegatarian.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/us/loma-linda-calif-frets-about-first-mcdonalds-outlet.html?ref=vegetarianism

ensbergcollector
01-11-2012, 11:33 AM
if the people don't eat there the business will go away. I don't see the problem.

mrveggieman
01-11-2012, 11:44 AM
if the people don't eat there the business will go away. I don't see the problem.


Agree. I haven't ate at mcdonalds in about 10 years or more. Also why can't mcdonalds think outside of the box and offer items to cater to its vegan/vegetarian patrons?

duane1969
01-11-2012, 12:31 PM
If they don't eat there then what is the problem? Those who do eat McDonald's will just be able to get a cheeseburger in town instead of driving to the next town to get it.

Curious thought. Would it be acceptable for meat eaters to oppose a vegan restaurant and require them to get special city council approval for a drive thru?

mrveggieman
01-11-2012, 12:42 PM
If they don't eat there then what is the problem? Those who do eat McDonald's will just be able to get a cheeseburger in town instead of driving to the next town to get it.

Curious thought. Would it be acceptable for meat eaters to oppose a vegan restaurant and require them to get special city council approval for a drive thru?


Unless the meat eaters in questions are trying to be knuckleheads there is no reason whatsoever for them to oppose a vegan restaurant. Remember the animals that you eat consume vegetables so it would be rather stupid to oppose people eating vegan because some of your food was raised on a vegan diet.

duane1969
01-11-2012, 01:15 PM
Unless the meat eaters in questions are trying to be knuckleheads there is no reason whatsoever for them to oppose a vegan restaurant. Remember the animals that you eat consume vegetables so it would be rather stupid to oppose people eating vegan because some of your food was raised on a vegan diet.

By the same measure, plants are fertilized by organic waste produced by animals and by the decomposition of animals after their death. So opposing eating meat would be equally stupid, correct?

My point was that I find it unreasonable to limit businesses based on personal choice. Limiting non-vegan restaurants by regulating their right to a drive-thru because you oppose eating meat is wrong.

mrveggieman
01-11-2012, 01:20 PM
By the same measure, plants are fertilized by organic waste produced by animals and by the decomposition of animals after their death. So opposing eating meat would be equally stupid, correct?

My point was that I find it unreasonable to limit businesses based on personal choice. Limiting non-vegan restaurants by regulating their right to a drive-thru because you oppose eating meat is wrong.

I'm not sure on all the legal logistics of it but it would make good business sense for any restaurant in that area to include vegan/vegatarian options if they want to stay in business.

theonedru
01-11-2012, 02:29 PM
I'm not sure on all the legal logistics of it but it would make good business sense for any restaurant in that area to include vegan/vegatarian options if they want to stay in business.

it would make good business sense for any restaurant in that area to include vegan/vegatarian options if they want to stay in business.

so true, you can go anywhere and eat a normal meal but as a vegan its almost impossible to go anywhere and eat something of a vegan nature, even here in Seattle a supposed very veggie/vegan friendly place you are limited to what you can consume. I know some restraunts tout veggie/vegan items but when you look at the ingredients they are not even vegetarian let alone vegan

mrveggieman
01-11-2012, 02:32 PM
it would make good business sense for any restaurant in that area to include vegan/vegatarian options if they want to stay in business.

so true, you can go anywhere and eat a normal meal but as a vegan its almost impossible to go anywhere and eat something of a vegan nature, even here in Seattle a supposed very veggie/vegan friendly place you are limited to what you can consume. I know some restraunts tout veggie/vegan items but when you look at the ingredients they are not even vegetarian let alone vegan


Yeah I feel you on that. They have a few decent veggie restaurants here in atlanta but they are expensive. However if you drive a couple of hours away to south carolina and ask for something vegan they look at you like you are speaking to them in japaneese.

duane1969
01-11-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm not sure on all the legal logistics of it but it would make good business sense for any restaurant in that area to include vegan/vegatarian options if they want to stay in business.

I am basing my thoughts on this...


Still, in one sign of Loma Linda’s historical distaste for fast food, restaurants are required to go through a special approval process for drive-through windows.

They try to keep fast food from coming in by limiting their right to do business via drive thru. I wonder if vegan restaurants are also required to get special approval for a drive thru. I just think it is wrong to enforce your personal lifestyle on others.

mrveggieman
01-11-2012, 03:10 PM
I am basing my thoughts on this...



They try to keep fast food from coming in by limiting their right to do business via drive thru. I wonder if vegan restaurants are also required to get special approval for a drive thru. I just think it is wrong to enforce your personal lifestyle on others.


It's what the people want. They are not outlawing fast food. I would assume that most people in that part of town have cars so if you are that determined to eat a piece of flesh the food police will not pull you over and arrest you.

ensbergcollector
01-11-2012, 03:33 PM
It's what the people want. They are not outlawing fast food. I would assume that most people in that part of town have cars so if you are that determined to eat a piece of flesh the food police will not pull you over and arrest you.

so are you ok with vegan restaurants having to jump through extra hoops because the majority of the local population prefers meat?

theonedru
01-11-2012, 03:36 PM
I really don't see the fuss, its like wet and dry counties/city/districts instead of booze its food related

mrveggieman
01-11-2012, 03:40 PM
so are you ok with vegan restaurants having to jump through extra hoops because the majority of the local population prefers meat?


Again that would make no sense. There are people who for various reasons refuse to eat meat. I have never heard of anyone insisting on eating only meat and refusing to eat vegetables. It would not make any sense for local gov'ts to make vegan restaurants go through extra hoops. You are comparing apples to oranges.

ensbergcollector
01-11-2012, 03:47 PM
Again that would make no sense. There are people who for various reasons refuse to eat meat. I have never heard of anyone insisting on eating only meat and refusing to heat vegetables. It would not make any sense for local gov'ts to make vegan restaurants go through extra hoops. You are comparing apples to oranges.

so places that serve meat are allowed to have extra hoops in place while vegan places shouldn't? Am I understanding you right?

Why does it make any sense for local governments to make non vegan restaurants go through extra hoops?

mrveggieman
01-11-2012, 03:56 PM
so places that serve meat are allowed to have extra hoops in place while vegan places shouldn't? Am I understanding you right?

Why does it make any sense for local governments to make non vegan restaurants go through extra hoops?


Again that is what the people in the community want. It a majority christian town (seven day adventists) who's residents for the most part do not eat meat. (Also what they are doing is no where as bad as the laws that are based on christian customs that discriminate against homosexuals and not so long ago discriminated against minorities) They are not saying do not eat meat or are they making it illegal to consume meat in their town. They are saying if you open up a restaurant you need to have something to cater to the vegetarians. I would think that if I was running a business I would not need the law to tell me that I have to sell a product that my clientel is pratically begging me to sell to them. Also no local gov't ran by meat eaters would make a veggie restaurant go through extra hoops because there is no such thing a a human being who only eats meat (he/she would not be able to survive doing such) so eventually he/she is going have to go somewhere to consume non meat products.

pwaldo
01-11-2012, 04:02 PM
it would make good business sense for any restaurant in that area to include vegan/vegatarian options if they want to stay in business.

It would only make good business sense if the cost of providing vegan stuff was profitable. If you had food sitting there and rotting because nobody bought it then why have it?

Plus I always thought that the meat that places like McDonald's bought was like Grade F so it was super cheap and profitable. Hence why Taco Bell can sell a big burrito filled with "meat" for under a dollar. You can't really inject vegetables and fruits with garbage filler to pad them but you can take pig ears and cow knees that nobody will eat mash them into a paste and call it food on a bun and people will eat it for some reason.

ensbergcollector
01-11-2012, 05:16 PM
Again that is what the people in the community want. It a majority christian town (seven day adventists) who's residents for the most part do not eat meat. (Also what they are doing is no where as bad as the laws that are based on christian customs that discriminate against homosexuals and not so long ago discriminated against minorities) They are not saying do not eat meat or are they making it illegal to consume meat in their town. They are saying if you open up a restaurant you need to have something to cater to the vegetarians. I would think that if I was running a business I would not need the law to tell me that I have to sell a product that my clientel is pratically begging me to sell to them. Also no local gov't ran by meat eaters would make a veggie restaurant go through extra hoops because there is no such thing a a human being who only eats meat (he/she would not be able to survive doing such) so eventually he/she is going have to go somewhere to consume non meat products.

Its called capitalism. If people dont want your product they wont buy it. I never though i would see you advocating that the majority should be able to dictate to the minority. I think you might be a tad bias due to your dietary preferences.
I could care less if all people need veggies. No restaurant should ever be dictated to about what has to be on their menu.

duane1969
01-11-2012, 09:04 PM
It's what the people want. They are not outlawing fast food. I would assume that most people in that part of town have cars so if you are that determined to eat a piece of flesh the food police will not pull you over and arrest you.

Trying to "discourage" legitimate businesses from coming to town with city ordinances that are unfair and biased is wrong.

If they were doing this to discourage Japanese food or Korean food you and everyone else would be hating on them for it.

duane1969
01-11-2012, 09:38 PM
Again that is what the people in the community want. It a majority christian town (seven day adventists) who's residents for the most part do not eat meat. (Also what they are doing is no where as bad as the laws that are based on christian customs that discriminate against homosexuals and not so long ago discriminated against minorities) They are not saying do not eat meat or are they making it illegal to consume meat in their town. They are saying if you open up a restaurant you need to have something to cater to the vegetarians. I would think that if I was running a business I would not need the law to tell me that I have to sell a product that my clientel is pratically begging me to sell to them. Also no local gov't ran by meat eaters would make a veggie restaurant go through extra hoops because there is no such thing a a human being who only eats meat (he/she would not be able to survive doing such) so eventually he/she is going have to go somewhere to consume non meat products.

So majority rules? Interesting perspective. I have never heard you take that position before.

So if say a state...let's say Oklahoma...were to vote by a 70%-30% majority to...oh, let's say outlaw sharia law...would you support that majority population's right to do so?

I wonder how you would feel about it if the article title was this...

"Loam Linda, CA Upset Over Influx Of Soul Food Restuarants"

...and I wonder if you would be OK with special restrictions for those types of restaurants.

My position is simple. Singling out an organization or business that is different from what your community normally accepts and desires and making it harder for them to be a successful business is wrong. Majority rule or not.

mrveggieman
01-12-2012, 09:12 AM
So majority rules? Interesting perspective. I have never heard you take that position before.

So if say a state...let's say Oklahoma...were to vote by a 70%-30% majority to...oh, let's say outlaw sharia law...would you support that majority population's right to do so?

I wonder how you would feel about it if the article title was this...

"Loam Linda, CA Upset Over Influx Of Soul Food Restuarants"

...and I wonder if you would be OK with special restrictions for those types of restaurants.

My position is simple. Singling out an organization or business that is different from what your community normally accepts and desires and making it harder for them to be a successful business is wrong. Majority rule or not.

They would not have a problem with soul food, korean, japanese, chinese food etc they just want to make sure that the residents of their town have healthy options to eat at. I stopped eating at mcdonalds because there is nothing healthy to eat and most mcdonalds in the united states refuse to cater to vegetarians even though they would make more money doing so. Look at the veggie burger from burger king for an example. My question is why is there a problem with the people of a particular town demanding that its restaurants offer healthy menu options to its citizens?

ensbergcollector
01-12-2012, 10:48 AM
They would not have a problem with soul food, korean, japanese, chinese food etc they just want to make sure that the residents of their town have healthy options to eat at. I stopped eating at mcdonalds because there is nothing healthy to eat and most mcdonalds in the united states refuse to cater to vegetarians even though they would make more money doing so. Look at the veggie burger from burger king for an example. My question is why is there a problem with the people of a particular town demanding that its restaurants offer healthy menu options to its citizens?

so, basically what you are saying is the only group who should get preferential treatment are vegetarians and vegans.

the problem with people in town demanding anything of a restaurant is exactly that. In what world is it ok for the community to demand what food goes on a restaurant menu. Again, if the people don't want it, they won't eat it, and the restaurant will either adapt or go away.

If a walmart is being built near green bay wisconsin, does the town have a right to demand walmart sell packers stuff? Now, it would make smart business sense to do so, but what right does the community have to demand it?

again, i think your opinion is skewed because you are a vegetarian.

mrveggieman
01-12-2012, 10:56 AM
so, basically what you are saying is the only group who should get preferential treatment are vegetarians and vegans.

the problem with people in town demanding anything of a restaurant is exactly that. In what world is it ok for the community to demand what food goes on a restaurant menu. Again, if the people don't want it, they won't eat it, and the restaurant will either adapt or go away.

If a walmart is being built near green bay wisconsin, does the town have a right to demand walmart sell packers stuff? Now, it would make smart business sense to do so, but what right does the community have to demand it?

again, i think your opinion is skewed because you are a vegetarian.

No one is getting preferential treatment. Restaurants are allowed to operate in the town and sell meat.

ensbergcollector
01-12-2012, 11:03 AM
No one is getting preferential treatment. Restaurants are allowed to operate in the town and sell meat.

ok, but is there any other circumstance where you would think it is ok for the majority of a community to make business demands before letting a company build? Or is that right reserved for vegans?

* can people tell walmart what to sell?
* can people tell a car dealership what kind of cars they have to sell?
* can people tell target what color shirts their employees have to wear?

you don't seem to realize that you are arguing for majority rules and excusing it as though vegans and vegetarians are entitled to rights that no other group is entitled to. Why, even in a community that is majority vegetarian, does EVERY restaurant have to offer a vegetarian option? Again, it might make smart business sense to do so, but that in no way excuses people having the right to demand it.

duane1969
01-12-2012, 11:45 AM
They would not have a problem with soul food, korean, japanese, chinese food etc they just want to make sure that the residents of their town have healthy options to eat at. I stopped eating at mcdonalds because there is nothing healthy to eat and most mcdonalds in the united states refuse to cater to vegetarians even though they would make more money doing so. Look at the veggie burger from burger king for an example. My question is why is there a problem with the people of a particular town demanding that its restaurants offer healthy menu options to its citizens?

You are deflecting. I never said I have a problem with them wanting healthy choices. I said I have a problem with them creating laws and restrictions that target specific types of restaurants. A fast food restaurant should not have to meet requirements to have a drive-thru that vegan restaurants do not have to meet.

And you ignored my other questions.

Do you have a problem with Oklahoma banning sharia law? 70% voted in favor of the ban and since majority rules, do you support it?

And if the majority of a town voted to make black owned businesses meet special requirements to conduct their business, would you support that since it was a majority of the town that voted to do it?

Or is majority rule only acceptable when it meets your standards of acceptable practices?

mrveggieman
01-12-2012, 11:54 AM
You are deflecting. I never said I have a problem with them wanting healthy choices. I said I have a problem with them creating laws and restrictions that target specific types of restaurants. A fast food restaurant should not have to meet requirements to have a drive-thru that vegan restaurants do not have to meet.

And you ignored my other questions.

Do you have a problem with Oklahoma banning sharia law? 70% voted in favor of the ban and since majority rules, do you support it?

And if the majority of a town voted to make black owned businesses meet special requirements to conduct their business, would you support that since it was a majority of the town that voted to do it?

Or is majority rule only acceptable when it meets your standards of acceptable practices?


Your race as well as your religion are both protected by law. Your right to have meat served to you in a restaurant is not.

ensbergcollector
01-12-2012, 12:10 PM
Your race as well as your religion are both protected by law. Your right to have meat served to you in a restaurant is not.

but apparently vegetarians think that their right to have vegan dishes served to you in a restaurant is.

duane1969
01-12-2012, 12:12 PM
Your race as well as your religion are both protected by law. Your right to have meat served to you in a restaurant is not.

So you support discriminating against meat eaters or restaurants that sell meat since there is no law protecting them?

If a town was predominantly meat eaters and made laws and restrictions that made it hard for vegan restaurants to do business, would you support that?

mrveggieman
01-12-2012, 12:33 PM
So you support discriminating against meat eaters or restaurants that sell meat since there is no law protecting them?

If a town was predominantly meat eaters and made laws and restrictions that made it hard for vegan restaurants to do business, would you support that?


Most vegetarians are not going to give you a hard time for eating meat in a restaurant. That is your heart, kidneys, and other organs that you are damaging by eating meet not theirs. No one is forcing mcdonalds to operate in Loma Linda, CA. The residents are simply telling them if you want to come here to do business this is what you are going need to do. I see no difference between what they are doing and any other city that gives a business a list of rules and regulations that they must follow if they desire to do business in their town.

ensbergcollector
01-12-2012, 12:38 PM
Most vegetarians are not going to give you a hard time for eating meat in a restaurant. That is your heart, kidneys, and other organs that you are damaging by eating meet not theirs. No one is forcing mcdonalds to operate in Loma Linda, CA. The residents are simply telling them if you want to come here to do business this is what you are going need to do. I see no difference between what they are doing and any other city that gives a business a list of rules and regulations that they must follow if they desire to do business in their town.

you are so blinded by the fact that you are vegetarian. It is never ok for the majority of a city to tell a restaurant what they have to serve and put on the menu. We aren't talking building codes and regulations. We are talking about the actual workings of a business.

you said "Your right to have meat served to you in a restaurant is not" protected by law.

so why do you think that peoples right to have vegetarian options in a restaurant should be protected by law?

mrveggieman
01-12-2012, 12:44 PM
you are so blinded by the fact that you are vegetarian. It is never ok for the majority of a city to tell a restaurant what they have to serve and put on the menu. We aren't talking building codes and regulations. We are talking about the actual workings of a business.

you said "Your right to have meat served to you in a restaurant is not" protected by law.

so why do you think that peoples right to have vegetarian options in a restaurant should be protected by law?


It would be nice to have a legal right to be served vegetarian items in restaurants but I dont. I have to research any restaurants before I go there. Some are vegetarian friendly some are not. It's too bad the city of atlanta is not more like loma linda, ca.

ensbergcollector
01-12-2012, 01:00 PM
It would be nice to have a legal right to be served vegetarian items in restaurants but I dont. I have to research any restaurants before I go there. Some are vegetarian friendly some are not. It's too bad the city of atlanta is not more like loma linda, ca.

my wife and daughter both have a crazy amount of food allergies. We have to research any restaurant before we go out to eat. It would never cross my mind that I should have legal right for all restaurants to cater to my wife's dietary needs. that is why there are thousands of restaurants. We can choose where to go.

tsjct
01-12-2012, 01:57 PM
My question is why in the heck would ANY business want to open in California? The TAXES are outrageous and other Business are leaving as fast as they can.

duane1969
01-12-2012, 02:34 PM
Most vegetarians are not going to give you a hard time for eating meat in a restaurant. That is your heart, kidneys, and other organs that you are damaging by eating meet not theirs. No one is forcing mcdonalds to operate in Loma Linda, CA. The residents are simply telling them if you want to come here to do business this is what you are going need to do. I see no difference between what they are doing and any other city that gives a business a list of rules and regulations that they must follow if they desire to do business in their town.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Simple question. If a largely meat-eating community made special rules and restrictions designed to make it difficult for vegan restaurants to do business, would you have a problem with it?

mrveggieman
01-12-2012, 02:47 PM
Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Simple question. If a largely meat-eating community made special rules and restrictions designed to make it difficult for vegan restaurants to do business, would you have a problem with it?


You are asking an impratical question that I cannot answer.

duane1969
01-12-2012, 02:53 PM
You are asking an impratical question that I cannot answer.

You gave me all the answer I need.

When the bias is against something you oppose then you are fine with it. If the bias was against something you support then you would have issue with it, even if it was an identical form of bias that was against something you oppose.

mrveggieman
01-12-2012, 03:16 PM
You gave me all the answer I need.

When the bias is against something you oppose then you are fine with it. If the bias was against something you support then you would have issue with it, even if it was an identical form of bias that was against something you oppose.


Why would anyone make laws restricting vegan restaurants? The situation you gave me makes no sense.

tsjct
01-12-2012, 03:16 PM
You gave me all the answer I need.

When the bias is against something you oppose then you are fine with it. If the bias was against something you support then you would have issue with it, even if it was an identical form of bias that was against something you oppose.

EXACTLY!! Its their way or NO WAY! That is the sad truth we face today.

mrveggieman
01-12-2012, 03:19 PM
EXACTLY!! Its their way or NO WAY! That is the sad truth we face today.


I'm sorry that I missed it but when did we start discussing the republican party on this thread?

tsjct
01-12-2012, 06:38 PM
I'm sorry that I missed it but when did we start discussing the republican party on this thread?

What area was this posted in??? Politics and Religion i believe.

ensbergcollector
01-12-2012, 07:13 PM
I'm sorry that I missed it but when did we start discussing the republican party on this thread?

and yet it is a bunch of (probably) liberal democrat vegans who want it there way or no way

mrveggieman
01-13-2012, 09:02 AM
and yet it is a bunch of (probably) liberal democrat vegans who want it there way or no way

No you got it twisted with the right wing ultra conservative republican tea party members. :winking0071: