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View Full Version : Why I hate religion but love jesus



mrveggieman
01-13-2012, 12:58 PM
Your thoughts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY&feature=g-logo&context=G27e0a26FOAAAAAAABAA

ensbergcollector
01-13-2012, 02:07 PM
i saw this and really like it. I don't agree with it 100% but if that were the requirement I would get bored listening only to myself!

gatorboymike
01-13-2012, 02:41 PM
I saw this and really hate it. I disagree with it 100% but if that were the requirement I would already be myself!

Seriously, YouTube user TheAmazingAtheist reduced this guy to a pile of smoldering ashes. I can't post a link because he uses profanity in his video, but he points out everything that's wrong with this salesman's sleazy pitch.

ensbergcollector
01-13-2012, 03:19 PM
not sure why you felt the need to mock me but ok.

also, I watched the video you reference. He doesn't reduce the guy to anything. He comes across like a raving lunatic that hates anything to do with religion. have his stuff doesn't even make clear sense. How you can sit through his coke analogy and still give the guy any credit amazes me. You can really sit there and watch that and tell me he makes any relevant points at all?

funny, for all the hate you have toward religion, and yet this guy is atheism. It is a self-important, entitled jerk, drips hatred and who curses(literally) all things religion because how dare someone think they are smarter than me or suppose to tell me anything about how to live.

gatorboymike
01-13-2012, 04:06 PM
also, I watched the video you reference. He doesn't reduce the guy to anything. He comes across like a raving lunatic that hates anything to do with religion. have his stuff doesn't even make clear sense. How you can sit through his coke analogy and still give the guy any credit amazes me. You can really sit there and watch that and tell me he makes any relevant points at all?

And your people come across like raving lunatics who hate anything that doesn't have to do with religion.

The Coke analogy is perfectly suited. What's the difference between saying "I hate religion, but I love Christianity" and "I hate soda, but I love Coke"? And no, that's not a false analogy because I said Christianity rather than Jesus, because, as TJ points out in his video, the would-be poet of the original video starts out saying "Jesus" but switches to "Christianity" near the end, thus demonstrating that he knew exactly what he was doing all along.

It's not unreasonable to like only one thing in a particular category. For example, I dislike almost all Western movies except The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. But what IS unreasonable is to claim that the one thing you like in the category you dislike does not actually belong to the category you dislike. If I were to say that TGTB&TU is just so awesome that, despite having all the characteristics of a Western, it somehow stops being a Western, you'd look at me like I was crazy. I look at you and your buddy the poet like you're crazy because that's what you're saying about Christianity.

I mock you because I know exactly what this is. This is the relatively new but already tired argument of "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion," and you know that's what it is too. We both also know that's a lie. Christians have the same sort of "relationship" with "God" that Star Wars geeks have with Princess Leia. People who use this argument know deep down that religion is a bottomless pit of evil and falsehood, but they're already dug in too deep to extract themselves from it and thus they have to construct pathetic little word games to convince themselves they're not really in the pit. Picking some more pleasing word to call your religion to try to convince yourself it's not really a religion is a desperate act of dishonesty and it shows the world that you KNOW something's not right. It's just as nonsensical and incoherent as calling Coke something other than soda or calling TGTB&TU something other than a Western.

"Oh yes, all those other religions are just the insane ramblings of ancient desert nomads, but MY insane ramblings of ancient desert nomads are totally different. My religion isn't different from any other religion in terms of how it has orthodoxy, rigidly structured heirarchy, irrational dogma, a history so bloody I can't even bear to think about it, meaningless anachronistic rituals in place of useful life lessons, preaches hate and bigotry toward outsiders and prescribes eternal suffering after death for them, and in fact tells us that we should kill them but I don't do that because I'm too busy gorging myself on the pleasures of modern life to adhere to the principles I claim to hold sacred...no, my religion isn't different from all other religions in any of those ways, but just because I say it is. And by the way, I hate fast food, but I love Ronald McDonald."


funny, for all the hate you have toward religion, and yet this guy is atheism. It is a self-important, entitled jerk, drips hatred and who curses(literally) all things religion because how dare someone think they are smarter than me or suppose to tell me anything about how to live.

If that guy IS atheism, then Fred Phelps IS Christianity. It is a self-worshipping, fascist dictator that hates, wants to destroy, and is planning the destruction of, everyone who is different from it in any way, wants to conquer the world for the glory of itself rather than any deity or ideal it supposedly holds dear, thinks it has the divinely mandated right, privilege and duty to do so because it's just so awesome and important and special and chocolatey and better than everyone else and not responsible for its actions, and thus it gets to tell people what they may and may not do, say and think at all times.

ensbergcollector
01-13-2012, 04:28 PM
If that guy IS atheism, then Fred Phelps IS Christianity. It is a self-worshipping, fascist dictator that hates, wants to destroy, and is planning the destruction of, everyone who is different from it in any way, wants to conquer the world for the glory of itself rather than any deity or ideal it supposedly holds dear, thinks it has the divinely mandated right, privilege and duty to do so because it's just so awesome and important and special and chocolatey and better than everyone else and not responsible for its actions, and thus it gets to tell people what they may and may not do, say and think at all times.

you are the one telling people to look him up. have I ever quoted some radical christian? no, because I don't agree with them. It is safe to assume that if you referencing this guy and almost cheering the way he "reduces the guy to a pile of ashes." So, sorry, bad comparison to phelps and christianity.

You talk about the hate christians have toward non-christians and then you turn around and brag on a guy who serves no purpose but hating on christians. Wow, glad to know atheists are so much more accepting than those evil christians.
the guy in the original video is talking about loving people and the guy in your video does nothing but spew hate and profanity. Thank you for clarifying the differences in atheism and christianity.


also, the original video makes perfect sense to christians. It wasn't made as a sales pitch to non-christians in an attempt to convert anyone. It is his feelings about how institutionalized religion has gone away from the message of Christ. So, no surprise it doesn't make sense to you and your buddy the amazing atheist.

gatorboymike
01-13-2012, 04:39 PM
you are the one telling people to look him up. have I ever quoted some radical christian? no, because I don't agree with them. It is safe to assume that if you referencing this guy and almost cheering the way he "reduces the guy to a pile of ashes." So, sorry, bad comparison to phelps and christianity.

Most Christians agree with everything Fred Phelps believes. They just don't want to admit it, or they don't want him to run around saying what they think because they know the rest of the world would hate them as much as the rest of the world hates Fred if the rest of the world knew that was what they thought. You ask any Christian why they don't like Fred and they'll tell you "Because he makes Christianity look bad," not "Because I don't agree with him." They DO agree with him. Everything he says is completely consistent with Christian scripture.


You talk about the hate christians have toward non-christians and then you turn around and brag on a guy who serves no purpose but hating on christians. Wow, glad to know atheists are so much more accepting than those evil christians.
the guy in the original video is talking about loving people and the guy in your video does nothing but spew hate and profanity. Thank you for clarifying the differences in atheism and christianity.

Christians started this war. Then you whine about how people are being so mean to you. Hypocrites. You're going to get as good as you give. I and people like me will make sure of that. Loving people? Give me a break. His only purpose is to instill people with fear and rage, which is how Christianity propagates. The fact that you don't mention the fear and rage in your saccharine sales pitch doesn't mean it's not there.


also, the original video makes perfect sense to christians. It wasn't made as a sales pitch to non-christians in an attempt to convert anyone. It is his feelings about how institutionalized religion has gone away from the message of Christ. So, no surprise it doesn't make sense to you and your buddy the amazing atheist.

No, it was made as a sales pitch to Christians in an attempt to reassure them that they are better than everyone else. He might claim he's not in favor of institutionalized religion or Republican politics, but I'll bet you one dollar more than all the money there is in the entire world that he belongs to some megachurch and is a lifelong registered Republican, just like you. It doesn't make sense because it's a bunch of lies.

ensbergcollector
01-13-2012, 04:45 PM
so gbm- basically you will continue to justify your hatred, and just like an abuser, you will defend yourself by saying "oh come on, you were asking for it."

all of your arguments against christianity hinge on the false premise that you know everything about everyone in the world like you are God (funny, I know).

what is funny, is that you call me a hypocrite and yet you talk non stop about how much christians are mean to you and judge you, all the while you are just attempting to excuse your own hate. So, who is the hypocrite again?

andrewhoya
01-13-2012, 05:12 PM
This has been allllll over Facebook :smash:

gatorboymike
01-13-2012, 11:15 PM
so gbm- basically you will continue to justify your hatred, and just like an abuser, you will defend yourself by saying "oh come on, you were asking for it."

No, I say I have every right to feel the way I feel because of my personal history, and those who do evil deserve to have evil done to them in return. Christians are like the schoolyard bully who pushes some smaller kid around over and over, then when the other kid fights back, the bully goes running and crying to the teacher about how he was just being a perfect little angel when that other mean little kid came up and started a fight.


all of your arguments against christianity hinge on the false premise that you know everything about everyone in the world like you are God (funny, I know).

You mean like how Christians are always telling me what I think, they are always telling me what I feel, they are telling me what I know, they are telling me what I do, and they are telling me what I have done? That is funny.


what is funny, is that you call me a hypocrite and yet you talk non stop about how much christians are mean to you and judge you, all the while you are just attempting to excuse your own hate. So, who is the hypocrite again?

Christians are the aggressors and the oppressors. I have every right to feel the way I feel. And it's hypocritical to accuse others of hypocrisy when you are a hypocrite yourself.

ensbergcollector
01-14-2012, 12:51 AM
feel free to watch both videos and tell me again who the aggressor is and who is wishing evil on someone else.

gatorboymike
01-14-2012, 01:38 AM
feel free to watch both videos and tell me again who the aggressor is and who is wishing evil on someone else.

Christianity is, in and of itself, wishing evil on others, because it preaches eternity in hell for everyone who does not obey it. No one who adheres to this philosophy can ever claim to be loving to anyone, in any way, in any part, at any time, under any circumstances, for any reason, period, end of story. If you wish infinite suffering upon others, that makes you infinitely evil.

tutall
01-14-2012, 08:15 AM
Christianity is, in and of itself, wishing evil on others, because it preaches eternity in hell for everyone who does not obey it. No one who adheres to this philosophy can ever claim to be loving to anyone, in any way, in any part, at any time, under any circumstances, for any reason, period, end of story. If you wish infinite suffering upon others, that makes you infinitely evil.

No one wishes infinite suffering on anyone in christianity....

ensbergcollector
01-14-2012, 10:20 AM
gbm- please do not turn this into another christian bashing thread. veggie posted a video he wanted comments on. you posted telling people to watch another video. i think everyone should keep their comments to that. and again, i strongly encourage everyone to watch both videos so you can comment on veggies thread and so you can see what kind of atheism gatorboy supports.

and gbm- it doesn't matter what radical christian videos you can post. no one here quotes them or supports them. just like i wouldn't accuse you of believing something you have not supported yourself, such as this video.

gatorboymike
01-14-2012, 02:54 PM
No one wishes infinite suffering on anyone in christianity....

I'm afraid you have to, by definition. As specified in a previous thread. But Smiley is right, and I have nothing further to say about the videos.

tutall
01-14-2012, 02:56 PM
I'm afraid you have to, by definition. As specified in a previous thread. But Smiley is right, and I have nothing further to say about the videos.

Show me where anyone but you said that?

ensbergcollector
01-14-2012, 03:12 PM
Show me where anyone but you said that?

in order to explain away his hate, gbm has decided that if you believe in hell, then there is no difference in belief in hell and wishing everyone who isn't like you should go there.

tutall
01-14-2012, 03:30 PM
in order to explain away his hate, gbm has decided that if you believe in hell, then there is no difference in belief in hell and wishing everyone who isn't like you should go there.

I got ya... I feel a total 180 from that... For instance... i believe Purdue exists too but I would never want anyone to go there....

gatorboymike
01-14-2012, 08:48 PM
You willingly and consciously choose to believe that everyone who is not like you will go to hell, therefore you must want them to.

ensbergcollector
01-14-2012, 09:05 PM
You willingly and consciously choose to believe that everyone who is not like you will go to hell, therefore you must want them to.

i willingly and consciously choose to believe that lebron will win a championship. I absolutely don't want him to.

come on man, you are too smart to believe the "logic" of your argument.

gatorboymike
01-14-2012, 09:12 PM
i willingly and consciously choose to believe that lebron will win a championship. I absolutely don't want him to.

come on man, you are too smart to believe the "logic" of your argument.

Those two things are not equivalent. One is based on observable, real-world evidence, and the other is based purely on your own self-serving feelings.

You knew Christianity preached that everyone who does not obey it goes to hell before you decided to join it, and you decided that was perfectly fine with you, and you joined it knowing that was a belief you were signing up to endorse. Take responsibility.

ensbergcollector
01-14-2012, 09:22 PM
Those two things are not equivalent. One is based on observable, real-world evidence, and the other is based purely on your own self-serving feelings.

You knew Christianity preached that everyone who does not obey it goes to hell before you decided to join it, and you decided that was perfectly fine with you, and you joined it knowing that was a belief you were signing up to endorse. Take responsibility.

take responsibility? give me a break. you are the only person in the 3+ years i have been on the P&R forum that ever spews hatred and wishes evil upon anyone else.

if I got beat up by a white guy in elementary school, do I have a right to judge all white males by that and do I have the right to wish ill will on all white males from then on out? Because that is your attitude toward christianity. someone was mean to you at some point in your life. grow up and get over it! hmm, i wonder if that is because, like your good buddy the amazing atheist, you spew nothing but vulgarities and violence toward them.

you come on here all the time talking about the hate christians have. in three years you are the only one who has ever shown hatred and venom. And the sad part is you are not only ok with that, you have found some sick and twisted justification in your own mind to convince yourself you are correct.

You try and compare christians believing in hell with christians wanting people to go to hell while you openly wish for evil to come to christians. Which do you think is worse? Oh yeah, yours has cause and justification.

My God teaches me to turn the other cheek when someone attacks me. Your God (you) teaches you that you have every right to desire whatever evil you want because someone was mean to you. I wonder why you refuse to believe in God. Maybe it is because you enjoy living a life of hatred too much and don't feel like giving it up.

gatorboymike
01-14-2012, 09:50 PM
you come on here all the time talking about the hate christians have. in three years you are the only one who has ever shown hatred and venom. And the sad part is you are not only ok with that, you have found some sick and twisted justification in your own mind to convince yourself you are correct.

You try and compare christians believing in hell with christians wanting people to go to hell while you openly wish for evil to come to christians. Which do you think is worse? Oh yeah, yours has cause and justification.

Don't pretend you are not also full of hate. Once again, YOU are the one who believes in inflicting infinite suffering upon people for finite transgressions. I want you to stop being the servant of an evil organization. You want me to be burned alive and tortured by monsters for eternity. Just because you don't express it doesn't mean you don't think it.


My God teaches me to turn the other cheek when someone attacks me. Your God (you) teaches you that you have every right to desire whatever evil you want because someone was mean to you. I wonder why you refuse to believe in God. Maybe it is because you enjoy living a life of hatred too much and don't feel like giving it up.

I'm not my god. Nothing is my god. Stop projecting your own feelings onto me. You do not turn the other cheek, nor does your god instruct you to do so. If you did, you would not have written this rant in the first place. And it's not that I "refuse" to believe in gods, it's that I'm not convinced there are any. Although I can see where you're coming from. If I believed that 99.9% of all people who have ever lived and will ever live were destined to go to hell, that would make me better than all of them and give me permission to do all the horrible things I wanted to them. And you wonder why I'm mad at Christians.

BGT Masters
01-15-2012, 01:43 AM
For whats its worth gatorboymike. I am christian, and it never crossed my mind any of the things you said. Although since my beliefs don't strictly follow those of Christians I guess I'd be an...

gatorboymike
01-15-2012, 02:39 AM
Well I sure appreciate that, and I wish other people felt the same way.

boba
01-15-2012, 10:48 AM
John 14:5
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

Keeping his commandments is religion.
The author tweeted that he was came across wrong with his wording yesterday.

Wickabee
01-15-2012, 02:04 PM
I'm just going to say this and then I'll be gone.
Anyone who thinks Christianity is worse than any other religion doesn't have a clue.
Anyone who thinks Atheists are any different from any religious group is fooling themselves.
Anyone who thinks there's any actual proof of which way is right is again fooling themselves.
Anyone who subscribes to a certain faith (or lack thereof) is completely within their rights and, if they hold to it, has my respect.

Anyone who says, "My way is better than yours" on this particular subject has no respect from me.

BGT Masters
01-15-2012, 02:09 PM
Well I sure appreciate that, and I wish other people felt the same way.

I'm sure a lot of people do. Thankfully when I was born embedded in my consciousness was common sense. Not everyone has to be told how to think, what to think or how or what to feel.

sublime420
01-15-2012, 02:30 PM
Honestly, i cannot say i believe in any certain religion, but i get just as annoyed when someone bashes a Christian as i do when they bash a Atheist. Everyone has their own view point and we should all respect them. Although i must say hating gays and dismissing evolution is quite ignorant....

BGT Masters
01-15-2012, 02:44 PM
I think we can all agree whatever created life, it's pretty darn amazing. ;) Honestly when you get right down to it in thought, nothing makes much sense. Life, planets, existence, nothing. Who created, what, what created who, on and on and on.

Wickabee
01-15-2012, 03:16 PM
Not every Christian religion believes in Hell.

habsheaven
01-15-2012, 07:31 PM
Not every Christian religion believes in Hell.

Which ones don't? I'm curious.

BGT Masters
01-15-2012, 08:00 PM
As am I.

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 08:43 AM
I finally got a chance to watch the video the other day on my phone but I couldn't respond back here til now. Some of the stuff that the guy in the original video made sense but a few things that I couldn't agree with him on that being said this video pretty much sums up how I feel on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIZIC13QO1c&feature=related

MadMan1978
01-17-2012, 09:13 AM
You waited 4 days to view the video after you posted it?

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 09:26 AM
You waited 4 days to view the video after you posted it?


Yeah I got a lot of computer dramma. I can't look at videos at my job even though I can post them, I can do some internet things on my phone but not all and both of my computers at home are fried. :smash:

duane1969
01-17-2012, 09:30 AM
You willingly and consciously choose to believe that everyone who is not like you will go to hell, therefore you must want them to.

Considering how often you use the term "straw man" you should be well aware of how full of "straw" that statement is...


Those two things are not equivalent. One is based on observable, real-world evidence, and the other is based purely on your own self-serving feelings.

You knew Christianity preached that everyone who does not obey it goes to hell before you decided to join it, and you decided that was perfectly fine with you, and you joined it knowing that was a belief you were signing up to endorse. Take responsibility.

Name a religion that does not teach that the alternative to obeying the teachings of that religion is some form of eternal punishment and damnation. Bashing Christians/Christianity like it is the only religion that teaches this is just silly.

RtdRSuperstar
01-17-2012, 10:11 AM
Doesn't this whole argument go along with the idea of thesis versus anti-thesis? Religion vs. Non Religion/ Right vs. Wrong/ Good vs. Bad?
I myself am a Christian, but believe myself that the whole arguing over right and wrong gets nobody anywhere. Constantly getting on here and picking people apart for choosing to believe or not to believe doesn't solve a single thing. Why can't we agree that we disagree and still move on and be friendly towards one another? Who gains more in an argument where one tells the other that they're narrow minded for believing when the other says the same to a non believer?

I believe Chris Motionless from Motionless in White said it best:
‎"Can we live without death? Can we love without hate? Can we want without need? Do we really ever live our lives enough to appreciate we can truly grasp one without the other? That a concept has no meaning without an opposing force. "

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 10:30 AM
Doesn't this whole argument go along with the idea of thesis versus anti-thesis? Religion vs. Non Religion/ Right vs. Wrong/ Good vs. Bad?
I myself am a Christian, but believe myself that the whole arguing over right and wrong gets nobody anywhere. Constantly getting on here and picking people apart for choosing to believe or not to believe doesn't solve a single thing. Why can't we agree that we disagree and still move on and be friendly towards one another? Who gains more in an argument where one tells the other that they're narrow minded for believing when the other says the same to a non believer?

I believe Chris Motionless from Motionless in White said it best:
‎"Can we live without death? Can we love without hate? Can we want without need? Do we really ever live our lives enough to appreciate we can truly grasp one without the other? That a concept has no meaning without an opposing force. "

Great points.

ensbergcollector
01-17-2012, 11:20 AM
I finally got a chance to watch the video the other day on my phone but I couldn't respond back here til now. Some of the stuff that the guy in the original video made sense but a few things that I couldn't agree with him on that being said this video pretty much sums up how I feel on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIZIC13QO1c&feature=related

not to your comments but to this video...smh

wavescrashing
01-17-2012, 11:42 AM
The only thing I'll say on the matter is, I've generally only presented my ideas on beliefs when someone else felt the need to share theirs.
I've found this to be of good practice. With that said, We clearly have and utilize freedom of religion, but my only hope is that more people understand the choice not to accept their religion or belief (even if non-religious), or perhaps, any religion.

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 11:43 AM
not to your comments but to this video...smh

I actually think that the guy was on point but since you are a christian minister I can understand why you would disagree with him.

ensbergcollector
01-17-2012, 11:46 AM
I actually think that the guy was on point but since you are a christian minister I can understand why you would disagree with him.

i just don't get the people who try to claim all religions are the same religion.

every religion claims on some level, that they are the only religion. So by claiming that every religion is the same, you are in essence insulting every religion. You have set yourself up as better understanding of God than anyone else who has ever lived. You don't show respect for all religions by making them the same. you show contempt and insult to all.

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 11:52 AM
i just don't get the people who try to claim all religions are the same religion.

every religion claims on some level, that they are the only religion. So by claiming that every religion is the same, you are in essence insulting every religion. You have set yourself up as better understanding of God than anyone else who has ever lived. You don't show respect for all religions by making them the same. you show contempt and insult to all.

So pick your favorite religion roll with that one while insulting and having no respect for any others. Is that your final answer?

ensbergcollector
01-17-2012, 12:33 PM
So pick your favorite religion roll with that one while insulting and having no respect for any others. Is that your final answer?

it has nothing to do with picking a favorite religion. it is called an educated decision. could I be wrong? of course. do I think I am, or course not. better than "hedging my bets" and going with everything. Again, people think they are respecting every religion but by doing so you are denying the validity of every religion.

also, i challenge you to find anywhere that I have insulted or shown no respect for other religions. Don't make outlandish false claims in an attempt to win a debate please.

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 12:40 PM
it has nothing to do with picking a favorite religion. it is called an educated decision. could I be wrong? of course. do I think I am, or course not. better than "hedging my bets" and going with everything. Again, people think they are respecting every religion but by doing so you are denying the validity of every religion.

also, i challenge you to find anywhere that I have insulted or shown no respect for other religions. Don't make outlandish false claims in an attempt to win a debate please.


It was not a shot at you or suggestion that you are intollerant of others but I'm sure that you would agreee that religion by nature teaches that there is only 1 correct religion and it is ok to insult and degrade other religions. If not why does every preacher feel on tv feel the need to tear down someone else's religion to make them feel better about their own. That sounds like a classic case of low self worth to me. :winking0071:

ensbergcollector
01-17-2012, 12:52 PM
It was not a shot at you or suggestion that you are intollerant of others but I'm sure that you would agreee that religion by nature teaches that there is only 1 correct religion and it is ok to insult and degrade other religions. If not why does every preacher feel on tv feel the need to tear down someone else's religion to make them feel better about their own. That sounds like a classic case of low self worth to me. :winking0071:

step one, don't listen to any preacher who is on tv!

i understand that is where a lot of religions end up. for my part, i do believe Jesus is the only way but I have never felt the need to disrespect anyone or to insult anyone. It pains me when I see it. however, i do not feel someone saying "jesus is the only way to God" is an insult to non-christians (not saying you meant that).

I just think our PC culture has sold this idea of all religions are really the same God. Like in the video the guy says he thinks jesus would be proud. really? Jesus, the man who said, no one gets to the father except through me, would be proud of someone who says jesus is no more important than any other religious figure?

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 12:57 PM
duplicate post

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 01:00 PM
step one, don't listen to any preacher who is on tv!




That's the best advice that I've heard on here. :D:

duane1969
01-17-2012, 01:39 PM
It was not a shot at you or suggestion that you are intollerant of others but I'm sure that you would agreee that religion by nature teaches that there is only 1 correct religion and it is ok to insult and degrade other religions. If not why does every preacher feel on tv feel the need to tear down someone else's religion to make them feel better about their own. That sounds like a classic case of low self worth to me. :winking0071:

I would agree that all religions teach that they are the one true religion. I would not agree that they teach that it is OK to insult and degrade other religions.

I don't know which TV preachers you speak of but pointing out a fallacy within another religion that is contradictory to some aspect of your own is not insulting it or degrading it IMO.

mrveggieman
01-17-2012, 01:58 PM
I would agree that all religions teach that they are the one true religion. I would not agree that they teach that it is OK to insult and degrade other religions.

I don't know which TV preachers you speak of but pointing out a fallacy within another religion that is contradictory to some aspect of your own is not insulting it or degrading it IMO.


Right but suggesting that someone is a terrorist because they follow a particular religion is. :winking0071:

gatorboymike
01-17-2012, 05:03 PM
Considering how often you use the term "straw man" you should be well aware of how full of "straw" that statement is...

Engsberg compared believing that LeBron James will eventually win an NBA championship to believing that non-Christians will go to hell, and that even though he wishes both of these were not true, he nonetheless insists that they are. I said this is not a valid comparison because one belief is based on being convinced by observable evidence while the other is based on actively trying to convince yourself for no good reason.

If you know anything about LeBron James, you can observe that he's an incredibly good athlete, he's been close to winning a championship before, he has many talented teammates, team chemistry usually improves over time, and they have many years together under their current contracts. Given all these factors, it is highly likely they will eventually win a championship and not unreasonable to come to this conclusion.

On the other hand, the evidence that non-Christians go to hell is absolutely nothing. It's a baseless claim made by an ancient tome that people adhere to out of insecurity, bigotry and hate because of their desperate need to think they're better than everyone else. In order to accept this claim you have to actively tell yourself it is true over and over, and actively work to silence any dissenting voices in your head. In other words, you have to brainwash and hypnotize yourself into believing it. This can only be achieved out of a tangible desire for it to be true, and therefore if you believe it, you absolutely, necessarily must WANT it to be true.

And I'll just say what I always say: reality always wins. Wanting something to be true does not make it true. But it does reveal a lot about your character.


Name a religion that does not teach that the alternative to obeying the teachings of that religion is some form of eternal punishment and damnation. Bashing Christians/Christianity like it is the only religion that teaches this is just silly.

Now that's a strawman. I never once said Christianity is the only religion that proscribes eternal damnation for non-adherents. All the religions that I'm aware of teach that; of course, I'm not familiar with every religion. There are probably some that don't. But that doesn't matter. I bash Christianity the most because Christianity poses the greatest threat to me.

But hey, as long as we're being all PC and inclusive, I'll go ahead and say that every religion that teaches eternal damnation are all equal...ly evil.

gatorboymike
01-17-2012, 05:09 PM
it has nothing to do with picking a favorite religion. it is called an educated decision. could I be wrong? of course. do I think I am, or course not. better than "hedging my bets" and going with everything. Again, people think they are respecting every religion but by doing so you are denying the validity of every religion.

You know, I agree with that last part. Although the "hedging my bets" comment is interesting. So let me ask you...do you accept the validity of Pascal's Wager? Because Pascal's Wager is most definitely bet-hedging, and it's bet-hedging that a lot of Christians seem to wholeheartedly endorse.

duane1969
01-17-2012, 06:10 PM
Engsberg compared believing that LeBron James will eventually win an NBA championship to believing that non-Christians will go to hell, and that even though he wishes both of these were not true, he nonetheless insists that they are. I said this is not a valid comparison because one belief is based on being convinced by observable evidence while the other is based on actively trying to convince yourself for no good reason.

If you know anything about LeBron James, you can observe that he's an incredibly good athlete, he's been close to winning a championship before, he has many talented teammates, team chemistry usually improves over time, and they have many years together under their current contracts. Given all these factors, it is highly likely they will eventually win a championship and not unreasonable to come to this conclusion.

On the other hand, the evidence that non-Christians go to hell is absolutely nothing. It's a baseless claim made by an ancient tome that people adhere to out of insecurity, bigotry and hate because of their desperate need to think they're better than everyone else. In order to accept this claim you have to actively tell yourself it is true over and over, and actively work to silence any dissenting voices in your head. In other words, you have to brainwash and hypnotize yourself into believing it. This can only be achieved out of a tangible desire for it to be true, and therefore if you believe it, you absolutely, necessarily must WANT it to be true.

And I'll just say what I always say: reality always wins. Wanting something to be true does not make it true. But it does reveal a lot about your character.



Now that's a strawman. I never once said Christianity is the only religion that proscribes eternal damnation for non-adherents. All the religions that I'm aware of teach that; of course, I'm not familiar with every religion. There are probably some that don't. But that doesn't matter. I bash Christianity the most because Christianity poses the greatest threat to me.

But hey, as long as we're being all PC and inclusive, I'll go ahead and say that every religion that teaches eternal damnation are all equal...ly evil.

The P.O.V. that a Christian believing that non-Christians will go to hell and thus want them to go to hell is where your statement becomes straw-man"ish".

I believe that someone who regularly drives at 200MPH will eventually kill themselves, that does not equte to my desire for them to be killed while doing 200MPH.

You are intentionally misrepresenting the thoughts and feelings of people that you do not know and then arguing that your baseless statement about their beliefs provides proof that you are right about their thoughts.

gatorboymike
01-17-2012, 06:24 PM
The P.O.V. that a Christian believing that non-Christians will go to hell and thus want them to go to hell is where your statement becomes straw-man"ish".

I believe that someone who regularly drives at 200MPH will eventually kill themselves, that does not equte to my desire for them to be killed while doing 200MPH.

That analogy fails for the same reason the LeBron James analogy fails. You just don't get it, do you?


You are intentionally misrepresenting the thoughts and feelings of people that you do not know and then arguing that your baseless statement about their beliefs provides proof that you are right about their thoughts.

No, I am demonstrating the inescapable conclusion of the beliefs those people claim to hold. If they do not claim to hold those beliefs, let them speak for themselves. If they hold those beliefs but want to pretend they do not lead where they actually lead, then they haven't thought their religion through and thus cannot truly be said to be part of it. That would make them the "lukewarm, liberal, false Christians" that ultra-right-wing, ultra-militant, ultra-fundamentalist, ultra-extremist ultra-fanatics like you are always screaming and hollering about. It's not my fault if Christians want to dishonestly cherry-pick the parts of their religion that make them feel all warm and squishy and pretend the dark and bloody parts of it aren't really there.

*censored*
01-18-2012, 12:30 PM
"Jesus was a good guy. It's his followers I'm not too keen on."

-- My pagan mom on Christianity

mrveggieman
01-18-2012, 12:41 PM
"Jesus was a good guy. It's his followers I'm not too keen on."

-- My pagan mom on Christianity


Post of the day. :cheer2: