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View Full Version : For You OBAMA Backers. Is he a FLIP FLOPPER??



tsjct
01-26-2012, 08:21 AM
For all you Obama Fans. And he is not all about OBAMA???

http://thpatriots.blogspot.com/2012/01/retired-geek-barack-obamas-reckless.html

habsheaven
01-26-2012, 08:41 AM
He's a politician.

As a Senator, not directly responsible for running the country, he could attack the Administration with absolutes. Also, in 2006 the country was in a different financial situation, a different military situation, etc.

As a President, he now has priorities and knowledge that he didn't have as a Senator. He also has a different economy to deal with.

It's easy to call any politician (Obama, Romney, McCain) a flipflopper. It takes perspective to realize the intricacies involved in every position a politician takes and why they change their tune over time.

duane1969
01-26-2012, 08:42 AM
No, no, no. It is Bush's fault. :rolleyes:

tsjct
01-26-2012, 08:44 AM
He's a politician.

As a Senator, not directly responsible for running the country, he could attack the Administration with absolutes. Also, in 2006 the country was in a different financial situation, a different military situation, etc.

As a President, he now has priorities and knowledge that he didn't have as a Senator. He also has a different economy to deal with.

It's easy to call any politician (Obama, Romney, McCain) a flipflopper. It takes perspective to realize the intricacies involved in every position a politician takes and why they change their tune over time.

Lol. Your response just goes to show no matter what facts are posted nothing will change your minds on OSHAMA.

duane1969
01-26-2012, 08:45 AM
He's a politician.

As a Senator, not directly responsible for running the country, he could attack the Administration with absolutes. Also, in 2006 the country was in a different financial situation, a different military situation, etc.

As a President, he now has priorities and knowledge that he didn't have as a Senator. He also has a different economy to deal with.

It's easy to call any politician (Obama, Romney, McCain) a flipflopper. It takes perspective to realize the intricacies involved in every position a politician takes and why they change their tune over time.

Let's be clear. As a senator he was attacking the Republican controlled White House policies. As a Democratic president he is doing what needs to be done.

Its called partisanship. Attack the other side for what they do then do the same thing and claim you are doing the right thing.

Star_Cards
01-26-2012, 08:54 AM
Its called partisanship. Attack the other side for what they do then do the same thing and claim you are doing the right thing.

this is the status quo of both parties, sadly. That includes most politicians, most media, and most citizens that define themselves by one party or the other.

duane1969
01-26-2012, 09:02 AM
this is the status quo of both parties, sadly. That includes most politicians, most media, and most citizens that define themselves by one party or the other.

I agree. I just get tired of the lame excuses for Obama. He ran on a platform of changing the way that things have been done and instead he has stepped right in line with doing it the way it has always been done.

habsheaven
01-26-2012, 09:12 AM
Like I said. It's all about perspectives.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 09:16 AM
Like I said. It's all about perspectives.

But he says BUSH was UNPATRIOTIC for raising the debt ceiling and spending money?? Now its perfectly fine for him. All about perspectives?:rolleyes:

habsheaven
01-26-2012, 09:23 AM
But he says BUSH was UNPATRIOTIC for raising the debt ceiling and spending money?? Now its perfectly fine for him. All about perspectives?:rolleyes:

Yes, his PERSPECTIVE as a Senator allows him to make OUTLANDISH statements. Did you take that comment seriously back then? I didn't.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 09:24 AM
Yes, his PERSPECTIVE as a Senator allows him to make OUTLANDISH statements. Did you take that comment seriously back then? I didn't.

His record speaks for itself.

habsheaven
01-26-2012, 09:26 AM
His record speaks for itself.

Yes, BUSH's record does speak for itself. We agree!!!:kiss:

Star_Cards
01-26-2012, 09:33 AM
I agree. I just get tired of the lame excuses for Obama. He ran on a platform of changing the way that things have been done and instead he has stepped right in line with doing it the way it has always been done.

true. I agree there are a lot of things I thought he'd be able to do and hasn't. I'm of the opinion that he had every intention to complete a lot of these tasks but the political process is just a machine that bogs things down. The fact of the matter is our politicians are completely ran by lobbyist. Until that changes there won't be a lot of positive results. Corporations and special interest have way too much power over our politicians because they have the funds to do so.

mrveggieman
01-26-2012, 09:35 AM
Yes, BUSH's record does speak for itself. We agree!!!:kiss:

Oh no mister, you can't blame george "the mesiah" bush for anything. He was sent here to save the world from all of our sins. We will not tolerate any more of your blashemphy on this forum. :winking0071:

pghin08
01-26-2012, 09:37 AM
Yeah, because we live in the same world as we did in 2006. Things change. We've had to endure an awful financial crisis, which a lot of Obama's spending is directly attributable to. I strongly doubt it was Obama's goal to become President just to spend an outlandish amount of money and drive America to ruins, thought it seems some on here genuinely believe that.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 09:44 AM
Yeah, because we live in the same world as we did in 2006. Things change. We've had to endure an awful financial crisis, which a lot of Obama's spending is directly attributable to. I strongly doubt it was Obama's goal to become President just to spend an outlandish amount of money and drive America to ruins, thought it seems some on here genuinely believe that.

I honestly believe he does believe in SOCIALISM if that is what your asking. He loves income redistribution and LOVES to spend money that he takes from others. His spending speaks very clear. Its wasteful and its for BIGGER Government.

pghin08
01-26-2012, 10:03 AM
I honestly believe he does believe in SOCIALISM if that is what your asking. He loves income redistribution and LOVES to spend money that he takes from others. His spending speaks very clear. Its wasteful and its for BIGGER Government.

But you aren't addressing the crisis. We live in a FAR different time than we did five years ago, and it really has very little to do with Obama. America prides itself on being a capitalist country. But we're not. And all we have to do is look back at September of 2008. When Bush and Paulsen bailed out AIG and others (which by the way, I agreed with), that was the end of capitalism, if temporary or not. When you don't allow a business to fail, it's NOT capitalism. And this has played out numerous times through our history. In times of crisis, government gets bigger. It ebbs and flows throughout time. To quote George Orwell, "this new version IS the past, and no different past can ever have existed".

Star_Cards
01-26-2012, 10:11 AM
I honestly believe he does believe in SOCIALISM if that is what your asking. He loves income redistribution and LOVES to spend money that he takes from others. His spending speaks very clear. Its wasteful and its for BIGGER Government.

most modern presidents believe in socialism.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 10:15 AM
But you aren't addressing the crisis. We live in a FAR different time than we did five years ago, and it really has very little to do with Obama. America prides itself on being a capitalist country. But we're not. And all we have to do is look back at September of 2008. When Bush and Paulsen bailed out AIG and others (which by the way, I agreed with), that was the end of capitalism, if temporary or not. When you don't allow a business to fail, it's NOT capitalism. And this has played out numerous times through our history. In times of crisis, government gets bigger. It ebbs and flows throughout time. To quote George Orwell, "this new version IS the past, and no different past can ever have existed".

As a business owner i had a chance to expand and make a large amount of money and to hire many many new employees. I however decided to stay with what i have as it would just mean more taxes and more headaches. I am just one Business owner that made this decision but how many others are doing the same thing. Obama is raising taxes to pay for his spending on the wrong people. Just like his OBAMA care package. I provide every employee with insurance and I pay for that 100%. It costs me a lot of money to do that. When OBAMA care comes into effect i can pay a $750 fine to not pay the insurance which i plan to do as it will save me A TON of money to let them go on OBAMA CARE. This is another example that he does not know what he is doing. He is clueless when it comes to companies and how to run a business and this idiot is running i mean ruining the greatest Economic country every founded.

mrveggieman
01-26-2012, 10:16 AM
Paying taxes is one of the biggest forms of socialism. I don't see to many republicans except for ron paul who are in favor of abolishing the IRS.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 10:17 AM
Paying taxes is one of the biggest forms of socialism. I don't see to many republicans except for ron paul who are in favor of abolishing the IRS.

I do not hear one Republican talking about Raising taxes but all i hear is OBAMA wanting to raise taxes.

pghin08
01-26-2012, 10:23 AM
As a business owner i had a chance to expand and make a large amount of money and to hire many many new employees. I however decided to stay with what i have as it would just mean more taxes and more headaches. I am just one Business owner that made this decision but how many others are doing the same thing. Obama is raising taxes to pay for his spending on the wrong people. Just like his OBAMA care package. I provide every employee with insurance and I pay for that 100%. It costs me a lot of money to do that. When OBAMA care comes into effect i can pay a $750 fine to not pay the insurance which i plan to do as it will save me A TON of money to let them go on OBAMA CARE. This is another example that he does not know what he is doing. He is clueless when it comes to companies and how to run a business and this idiot is running i mean ruining the greatest Economic country every founded.

A couple things.

1. I actually agree to a certain extent. Obama has never run a business. He, himself, is clueless on it. He has to rely on people around him.

2. Moving on to the second part of that sentence. Again, you don't address what I've said before. How is this all Obama's fault? I understand your concerns about Obama Care, but that's small pebbles at this point. To say that he is ruining the greatest economy ever is ridiculous to me. Like I've said, we essentially stopped being capitalist (which we've done before) when Bush and Hank essentially nationalized AIG. That was it. And the "ruining" of the US economy, of course started far before this.

Frankly, I don't think the economy is ruined at all. We've faced awful times before, and have anted up. I think we'll do it again.

pghin08
01-26-2012, 10:24 AM
I do not hear one Republican talking about Raising taxes but all i hear is OBAMA wanting to raise taxes.

But all he's done since he's been in office is cut taxes.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 10:26 AM
But all he's done since he's been in office is cut taxes.

He has Extended tax cuts but not cut taxes.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 10:29 AM
A couple things.

1. I actually agree to a certain extent. Obama has never run a business. He, himself, is clueless on it. He has to rely on people around him.

2. Moving on to the second part of that sentence. Again, you don't address what I've said before. How is this all Obama's fault? I understand your concerns about Obama Care, but that's small pebbles at this point. To say that he is ruining the greatest economy ever is ridiculous to me. Like I've said, we essentially stopped being capitalist (which we've done before) when Bush and Hank essentially nationalized AIG. That was it. And the "ruining" of the US economy, of course started far before this.

Frankly, I don't think the economy is ruined at all. We've faced awful times before, and have anted up. I think we'll do it again.

Well it was just announced Bernacky is going to PRINT more money to get us through 2014. This is absolutely crazy but it will make me a lot more money as all the GOLD and SILVER are on the rise. GOLD right now 1729 and on the rise. Silver 33.54 and on the rise.

duane1969
01-26-2012, 10:30 AM
Paying taxes is one of the biggest forms of socialism. I don't see to many republicans except for ron paul who are in favor of abolishing the IRS.

Actually you are speaking of a perversion of the paying of taxes. Paying taxes is meant to be a financial support of a government body and in turn that government body protects us from foreign entities (military), provides a criminal/judicial system and protects our communitites (law enforcement).

The taking of money from those who have jobs and giving it to those who do not is not even socialism. Socialism implies that we all work and we all have the same things. The current system requires nothing but signing your name to get a taxpayer funded handout. Work is the last thing the government expects from welfare recipients.

pghin08
01-26-2012, 10:32 AM
He has Extended tax cuts but not cut taxes.

Not true, he cut the payroll tax in 2011.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 10:33 AM
Actually you are speaking of a perversion of the paying of taxes. Paying taxes is meant to be a financial support of a government body and in turn that government body protects us from foreign entities (military), provides a criminal/judicial system and protects our communitites (law enforcement).

The taking of money from those who have jobs and giving it to those who do not is not even socialism. Socialism implies that we all work and we all have the same things. The current system requires nothing but signing your name to get a taxpayer funded handout. Work is the last thing the government expects from welfare recipients.


Exactly!! That's why he is called the FOOD STAMP PRESIDENT. Just look at the amount of recipients receiving that now. He loves to keep the poor down so he can take care of them and get the votes.

Star_Cards
01-26-2012, 10:54 AM
A couple things.

1. I actually agree to a certain extent. Obama has never run a business. He, himself, is clueless on it. He has to rely on people around him.

2. Moving on to the second part of that sentence. Again, you don't address what I've said before. How is this all Obama's fault? I understand your concerns about Obama Care, but that's small pebbles at this point. To say that he is ruining the greatest economy ever is ridiculous to me. Like I've said, we essentially stopped being capitalist (which we've done before) when Bush and Hank essentially nationalized AIG. That was it. And the "ruining" of the US economy, of course started far before this.

Frankly, I don't think the economy is ruined at all. We've faced awful times before, and have anted up. I think we'll do it again.

I don't think the economy is ruined either. Sure they need to change some things about it but it's hardly as doom and gloom as some people want to say.

pghin08
01-26-2012, 11:28 AM
I don't think the economy is ruined either. Sure they need to change some things about it but it's hardly as doom and gloom as some people want to say.

We need some big league tax reform. A system where it is easier to make money (and keep it) with OTHER money than making money with labor, is inherently unstable.

duane1969
01-26-2012, 11:34 AM
Not true, he cut the payroll tax in 2011.

I thought that was an extension?

pghin08
01-26-2012, 11:46 AM
I thought that was an extension?

No, it was perceived as one though. It was passed along with the Bush tax cut extension in December of 2010. The prior rate under the Bush administration/Obama administration for the SS Payroll Tax was 6.2%. It was cut in December of '10 to 4.2% and made effective for 2011. Then they passed an extension of it to 2012 a month ago.

AUTaxMan
01-26-2012, 11:51 AM
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. - Emerson

People should be allowed to change their minds about things, since you gain more information, experience, perspective, widsom, insight, etc. as you age.

habsheaven
01-26-2012, 12:02 PM
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. - Emerson

People should be allowed to change their minds about things, since you gain more information, experience, perspective, widsom, insight, etc. as you age.

It's nice to see someone with different political stripes than mine say something like this. I do not understand why it is so hard for people to admit to.

I remember back about a year ago I had a complete change of heart over an issue because of ideas being expressed on this site. Would hate to think I was just a flip-flopper because of it.

mrveggieman
01-26-2012, 12:27 PM
It's nice to see someone with different political stripes than mine say something like this. I do not understand why it is so hard for people to admit to.

I remember back about a year ago I had a complete change of heart over an issue because of ideas being expressed on this site. Would hate to think I was just a flip-flopper because of it.


What someone actually learing something on this site and actually changing their mind? :confused0068:

Star_Cards
01-26-2012, 12:58 PM
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. - Emerson

People should be allowed to change their minds about things, since you gain more information, experience, perspective, widsom, insight, etc. as you age.

great post. sometimes when people change their minds it because they flip flop because they are looking out for their interests, but sometimes it's because they are more educated on the topic.

duwal
01-26-2012, 08:04 PM
I don't think the economy is ruined either. Sure they need to change some things about it but it's hardly as doom and gloom as some people want to say.


I agree, the economy had a very rough patch but now is back to being pretty healthy. People have money, they're paying their bills and living their lives just fine. Its the ones like on here who are talking about how horrible the economy is and how tough the struggles are today as they are in their house sitting at home on their personal computers and paying their electric bill on time every month or on here during their work hours at their job. Everyone here is absolutely fine economically.

tsjct
01-26-2012, 08:15 PM
I agree, the economy had a very rough patch but now is back to being pretty healthy. People have money, they're paying their bills and living their lives just fine. Its the ones like on here who are talking about how horrible the economy is and how tough the struggles are today as they are in their house sitting at home on their personal computers and paying their electric bill on time every month or on here during their work hours at their job. Everyone here is absolutely fine economically.

The economy is so great we just PRINTED another 1.2 TRILLION dollars today. I would say that is a sign of a GREAT economy:rolleyes:

pghin08
01-26-2012, 09:35 PM
The economy is so great we just PRINTED another 1.2 TRILLION dollars today. I would say that is a sign of a GREAT economy:rolleyes:

You're a business owner. Is your life that much worse under Obama?

tsjct
01-27-2012, 10:37 AM
You're a business owner. Is your life that much worse under Obama?

I have owned my businesses for over 12 years and i can say that under Oshama its been much much worse. Our customers spend much less than they did and the customer base has shrunk under Oshama.

pghin08
01-27-2012, 11:02 AM
I have owned my businesses for over 12 years and i can say that under Oshama its been much much worse. Our customers spend much less than they did and the customer base has shrunk under Oshama.

You don't think that had more to do with the recession than Obama?

mrveggieman
01-27-2012, 11:26 AM
I have owned my businesses for over 12 years and i can say that under Oshama its been much much worse. Our customers spend much less than they did and the customer base has shrunk under Oshama.


If you don't mind us asking what type of business do you operate?

Star_Cards
01-27-2012, 12:22 PM
I have owned my businesses for over 12 years and i can say that under Oshama its been much much worse. Our customers spend much less than they did and the customer base has shrunk under Oshama.

I've had a side business on top of my regular job. My main source of sales is ebay. I still do well, but the big drop off of my sales on ebay came before obama was elected.


by the way. very clever calling him Oshama.

Star_Cards
01-27-2012, 12:23 PM
If you don't mind us asking what type of business do you operate?

I'd like to know who the Obama administration has effected your business as well as opposed to the changes being due to the economic turn that we had well before his election.

tsjct
01-28-2012, 12:15 PM
I'd like to know who the Obama administration has effected your business as well as opposed to the changes being due to the economic turn that we had well before his election.

Lets just give Oshama and W a free ride. It really goes back to Clinton. Ok now were done.:love0030:

tsjct
01-28-2012, 12:26 PM
If you don't mind us asking what type of business do you operate?


Oil/Gas businesses and invest in other companies.