PDA

View Full Version : Indiana passes Right to Work Bill



tutall
02-02-2012, 07:01 PM
Indiana has become the first Rust Belt state to enact the contentious right-to-work labor law prohibiting labor contracts that require workers to pay union representation fees.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9SKPN9O3.htm

duane1969
02-03-2012, 06:43 PM
I am surprised nobody has commented on this.

I support this 110%. Our economy is struggling and jobs are hard to find. The last thing we need is unions making it harder for non-union workers to "get in" and taking money out of their checks for the right to work. Competition for skilled workers breeds higher salaries, not legal wrangling and backdoor deals.

theonedru
02-03-2012, 11:08 PM
I am surprised nobody has commented on this.

I support this 110%. Our economy is struggling and jobs are hard to find. The last thing we need is unions making it harder for non-union workers to "get in" and taking money out of their checks for the right to work. Competition for skilled workers breeds higher salaries, not legal wrangling and backdoor deals.

Could not agree more, totally spot on.

pghin08
02-04-2012, 07:51 AM
I am surprised nobody has commented on this.

I support this 110%. Our economy is struggling and jobs are hard to find. The last thing we need is unions making it harder for non-union workers to "get in" and taking money out of their checks for the right to work. Competition for skilled workers breeds higher salaries, not legal wrangling and backdoor deals.

I actually agree too. I may be liberal, but I've never been a big union guy.

OnePimpTiger
02-04-2012, 12:06 PM
Mitch Daniels: Right-to-work already working (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72389.html#ixzz1lKo7JbgP)


Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels defended Thursday his state’s newly-approved right-to-work legislation, saying that the phones have been ringing off the hook with companies wanting to come to the state since he signed the measure.

Of course I'm all for this...looks like people who create jobs are too.

mrveggieman
02-06-2012, 08:23 AM
I don't like this. Like I said before unions are a neccessary evil. Yes companies are going to want to come to any right to work state because they can essentially do whatever they want and always hold over the employee's head that this is a right to work state and they can fire you whenever they want for any reason.

Star_Cards
02-06-2012, 08:29 AM
I'm not sure exactly what this means, but on the surface it seems like a good thing. I get that unions won't like this as it hurt solidarity. I think people should have the choice to decide of they want to pay for the service that a union may provide. I think people should have a choice of joining a union more so than just having to choose not to work at a place where they would typically have to.

I know pro union people will say that companies "want to do whatever they want" but I still stand by the fact that there are way more companies that hire non union employees and are just as fair to them without having the union.

tutall
02-06-2012, 02:40 PM
I don't like this. Like I said before unions are a neccessary evil. Yes companies are going to want to come to any right to work state because they can essentially do whatever they want and always hold over the employee's head that this is a right to work state and they can fire you whenever they want for any reason.

Then Don't give the companies a reason to fire you. If you're a hard worker and respects the policies the company put in place you aren't going to get fired. There are wayto many expenses in hiring someone new to just start axing people

mrveggieman
02-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Then Don't give the companies a reason to fire you. If you're a hard worker and respects the policies the company put in place you aren't going to get fired. There are wayto many expenses in hiring someone new to just start axing people


That's easier said than done. Some companies play favorites. If you aren't kissing the right person's backside or if your uncle isn't the manager then if push comes to shove you are good as gone. For example my previous job was a sales job. I came to work on time did my job and pretty much kept to myself except for a few people that I used to talk to. One day the company decided that they didn't like paying us all the commission money they were paying us. I sales were based on getting good calls coming through. You know what happens next management sends the good calls to all their buddies and if you wernt down with the clique you were out of luck. If you don't make their sales quota out the door you go. So are you telling me that on every job that I work on that is non unioned I need to kiss the bosses backside to keep my job and avoid being fired?

duane1969
02-06-2012, 04:24 PM
I'm not sure exactly what this means, but on the surface it seems like a good thing. I get that unions won't like this as it hurt solidarity. I think people should have the choice to decide of they want to pay for the service that a union may provide. I think people should have a choice of joining a union more so than just having to choose not to work at a place where they would typically have to.

I know pro union people will say that companies "want to do whatever they want" but I still stand by the fact that there are way more companies that hire non union employees and are just as fair to them without having the union.

This isn't about protection from getting fired. This is about unions stopping people who need jobs from getting them unless they join the union. The "Right to Work" bill stops unions from blocking non-union workers from getting jobs and forcing people who need a job to pay union dues and fees to get a job.

As far as I am concerned, being forced to pay union dues to get a job is blatant extortion. If an employer said "Give me $100 and you can have a job" then the labor commision would be all over him. A union says "Give me $100 in "dues" and you can have a job" and everyone is all for it.

AUTaxMan
02-06-2012, 05:17 PM
That's easier said than done. Some companies play favorites. If you aren't kissing the right person's backside or if your uncle isn't the manager then if push comes to shove you are good as gone. For example my previous job was a sales job. I came to work on time did my job and pretty much kept to myself except for a few people that I used to talk to. One day the company decided that they didn't like paying us all the commission money they were paying us. I sales were based on getting good calls coming through. You know what happens next management sends the good calls to all their buddies and if you wernt down with the clique you were out of luck. If you don't make their sales quota out the door you go. So are you telling me that on every job that I work on that is non unioned I need to kiss the bosses backside to keep my job and avoid being fired?

Not all jobs are like that. Why would you want to work somewhere where you had to do that?

tutall
02-06-2012, 07:33 PM
That's easier said than done. Some companies play favorites. If you aren't kissing the right person's backside or if your uncle isn't the manager then if push comes to shove you are good as gone. For example my previous job was a sales job. I came to work on time did my job and pretty much kept to myself except for a few people that I used to talk to. One day the company decided that they didn't like paying us all the commission money they were paying us. I sales were based on getting good calls coming through. You know what happens next management sends the good calls to all their buddies and if you wernt down with the clique you were out of luck. If you don't make their sales quota out the door you go. So are you telling me that on every job that I work on that is non unioned I need to kiss the bosses backside to keep my job and avoid being fired?

First off... If a business is ran that way it would be best to leave that business as it probably wont be around long. Second, I have a sales job and if you arent happy with your commission checks you are in control of them. Go find a new customer and bypass management all together. Third, a union really wouldnt have protected you in that situation as all members of a union are not created equally as they might lead you to believe

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 08:35 AM
First off... If a business is ran that way it would be best to leave that business as it probably wont be around long. Second, I have a sales job and if you arent happy with your commission checks you are in control of them. Go find a new customer and bypass management all together. Third, a union really wouldnt have protected you in that situation as all members of a union are not created equally as they might lead you to believe


That's easier said than done. My job was not set up that way. You were only given the leads that they wanted you to have. If you couldn't work with those then tough. It's real easy to say if you don't like you job then leave but much harder to do when that is the only thing that you have to feed your family and put a roof over your head.

duane1969
02-07-2012, 08:37 AM
And none of this has anything to do with the Right to Work bill...

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 08:41 AM
And none of this has anything to do with the Right to Work bill...


Indiana passed the right to work bill making the state less friendly to unions and more friendly to business. I expressed my concern without unions watching over the best intrests of employees businesses can pretty much do whatever the hell they want to their workers just like what they did to me. SMH.

Star_Cards
02-07-2012, 08:50 AM
This isn't about protection from getting fired. This is about unions stopping people who need jobs from getting them unless they join the union. The "Right to Work" bill stops unions from blocking non-union workers from getting jobs and forcing people who need a job to pay union dues and fees to get a job.

As far as I am concerned, being forced to pay union dues to get a job is blatant extortion. If an employer said "Give me $100 and you can have a job" then the labor commision would be all over him. A union says "Give me $100 in "dues" and you can have a job" and everyone is all for it.

I didn't think I said anything about protection from getting fired. I don't think people should be protected from getting fired if they are a bad worker worthy of being fired.

That is why I like this, because people are forced to join a union that is in the workplace they are employed. I think people should be able to look at the pros and cons of being in a union and decide on their own if they want to join.

Star_Cards
02-07-2012, 08:54 AM
Not all jobs are like that. Why would you want to work somewhere where you had to do that?

I ask the same question. It's a bit like the equivalent of wanting to stay with a girlfriend that no longer wants to be with you.

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 09:03 AM
I ask the same question. It's a bit like the equivalent of wanting to stay with a girlfriend that no longer wants to be with you.


Ya'll are comparing apples to oranges. People want a girlfirend for friendship, compionship, other reasons but they do not need a girlfriend for day to day survival. If/when the cons outweigh the pros of having that particular girlfriend let her go. However you need a job in order to make money to pay your bills, buy food, gas, clothes, etc. If you don't work you can't make money to live. Unfortunately some people have to work jobs that they hate because that is all that is available to them at the time.

duane1969
02-07-2012, 09:31 AM
Indiana passed the right to work bill making the state less friendly to unions and more friendly to business. I expressed my concern without unions watching over the best intrests of employees businesses can pretty much do whatever the hell they want to their workers just like what they did to me. SMH.

The Right to Work bill prevents people from being blocked from getting a job because they refuse to join a union or pay union dues. It has nothing to do with protecting or not protecting workers who are already employed. The Right to Work bill does not block unions from existing, just from forcing people to be in a union to get in a job.

Considering your typically liberal ideals, I can't imagine why you would support unions blocking people from getting a job because they don't want to join the union.

Being in a union should be a choice, not a requirement. Paying union dues should be something you choose to do, not something you are strongarmed into doing so you can put food on the table and pay the rent.

tsjct
02-07-2012, 10:04 AM
I also want to Know how much of the UNION dues go towards LIBERAL DEMOCRAT donations. I bet you would be surprised!!

duane1969
02-07-2012, 10:13 AM
I also want to Know how much of the UNION dues go towards LIBERAL DEMOCRAT donations. I bet you would be surprised!!

No I wouldn't.

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 10:13 AM
The Right to Work bill prevents people from being blocked from getting a job because they refuse to join a union or pay union dues. It has nothing to do with protecting or not protecting workers who are already employed. The Right to Work bill does not block unions from existing, just from forcing people to be in a union to get in a job.

Considering your typically liberal ideals, I can't imagine why you would support unions blocking people from getting a job because they don't want to join the union.

Being in a union should be a choice, not a requirement. Paying union dues should be something you choose to do, not something you are strongarmed into doing so you can put food on the table and pay the rent.

I worked for a company a few years ago that had an office different states that was unionized. I worked in the Maryland office which was considered closed shop which meant union fees were manditory. Joining a union was not a requirement for getting a job but you must pay union dues as a condition of keeping your job. I cant remember what they were but I didn't notice a big hit off my check. However just across the state line in Virginia it was open shop which meant union dues were not required. I was ok with it either way. I loved having someone that had my back if my company did something funny (they didn't knock on wood). Paying union dues is just like paying hospitalization insurance. You will gladly pay it and be perfectly fine with never having to use it.

duane1969
02-07-2012, 11:03 AM
I worked for a company a few years ago that had an office different states that was unionized. I worked in the Maryland office which was considered closed shop which meant union fees were manditory. Joining a union was not a requirement for getting a job but you must pay union dues as a condition of keeping your job. I cant remember what they were but I didn't notice a big hit off my check. However just across the state line in Virginia it was open shop which meant union dues were not required. I was ok with it either way. I loved having someone that had my back if my company did something funny (they didn't knock on wood). Paying union dues is just like paying hospitalization insurance. You will gladly pay it and be perfectly fine with never having to use it.

I have worked in a closed shop as well. And I repeat, union dues should not be a stipulation for getting or keeping a job. A union should not be able to displace a worker for not being part of the union. People should not be strongarmed into paying a fee to keep their job. Quite simply, that is extortion.

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 11:05 AM
I have worked in a closed shop as well. And I repeat, union dues should not be a stipulation for getting or keeping a job. A union should not be able to displace a worker for not being part of the union. People should not be strongarmed into paying a fee to keep their job. Quite simply, that is extortion.


Paying union dues are just like paying taxes. The only difference is if you need the union to do something for you they got your back. I can't say the same thing for the gov't. :rolleyes:

AUTaxMan
02-07-2012, 12:42 PM
Paying union dues are just like paying taxes. The only difference is if you need the union to do something for you they got your back. I can't say the same thing for the gov't. :rolleyes:

And if you disagree with the union's position on an issue, you'd better watch your back.

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 12:45 PM
And if you disagree with the union's position on an issue, you'd better watch your back.


And if you disagree with the job treating you like a piece of trash enjoy the unemployment line. :rolleyes:

duane1969
02-07-2012, 12:48 PM
And if you disagree with the job treating you like a piece of trash enjoy the unemployment line. :rolleyes:

Not many businesses who consistently treat their employees bad are in business for long. And if the mistreatment is illegal then there are labor laws to protect us.

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 12:59 PM
Not many businesses who consistently treat their employees bad are in business for long. And if the mistreatment is illegal then there are labor laws to protect us.


Not in most right to work states in this economy. This is an employers dream. First of all they can use the economy as an excuse not to pay you anything. You can look for something else but the next ten companies will that will even give you a second look will all give you the same excuse. They then work you like a slave with the threat of firing you if you do not say yes massar while smiling, grinning and dancing for them. Also there is nothing in the labor laws as far as I know that will stop a company from changing its commission formula around whenever it feels like it to find new ways not to pay you your money.

AUTaxMan
02-07-2012, 01:13 PM
And if you disagree with the job treating you like a piece of trash enjoy the unemployment line. :rolleyes:

Get a new job. You don't have a right to work there, and why would you want to work there if you hate(d) it so much? If you are worth hiring, someone else will hire you. It's not like you have one job and if you lose it, you are unemployed for the rest of your life.

It has become clear to me that you believe that you have a fundamental right to a job. Guess what? You don't. You can't have a right to anything infringes upon another's personal property rights or freedoms.

If I don't want to hire you, I don't have to. If I want to hire you and pay you crap, that's my call. You work for me. Go work somewhere else if you can't live by my rules (as long as they aren't unconstitutionally discriminatory). You can't make me pay you more. You have to make yourself so indisposable so that I have no other choice but to pay you more.

ensbergcollector
02-07-2012, 01:18 PM
i can understand why people in unions support unions. it is almost impossible to be fired, even if you don't do your job or do it poorly. someone in this thread compared it to paying insurance. that is pretty close. it is job insurance. join the union and you never have to worry about being fired, regardless of what you do.

and before someone says that isn't true, feel free to bump the thread about the teacher making 100K a year who hasn't worked in a decade.

Star_Cards
02-07-2012, 01:27 PM
Ya'll are comparing apples to oranges. People want a girlfirend for friendship, compionship, other reasons but they do not need a girlfriend for day to day survival. If/when the cons outweigh the pros of having that particular girlfriend let her go. However you need a job in order to make money to pay your bills, buy food, gas, clothes, etc. If you don't work you can't make money to live. Unfortunately some people have to work jobs that they hate because that is all that is available to them at the time.

I said it's a bit like it. not exactly. of course people know the difference. It's an analogy. The point is, if I work at a place that wants to try to get rid of my, even if I'm part of a union and the union saves me I'm not going to feel that great about still working there and probably wouldn't want to work there.

Star_Cards
02-07-2012, 01:32 PM
Not in most right to work states in this economy. This is an employers dream. First of all they can use the economy as an excuse not to pay you anything. You can look for something else but the next ten companies will that will even give you a second look will all give you the same excuse. They then work you like a slave with the threat of firing you if you do not say yes massar while smiling, grinning and dancing for them. Also there is nothing in the labor laws as far as I know that will stop a company from changing its commission formula around whenever it feels like it to find new ways not to pay you your money.

I'd really love to know the percentage of union jobs and non union jobs in Indiana as well as the United States. The percentage of non union jobs is probably way higher than union. If that is true, then why aren't the non union employers taking huge advantages of their employees?

AUTaxMan
02-07-2012, 01:34 PM
I'd really love to know the percentage of union jobs and non union jobs in Indiana as well as the United States. The percentage of non union jobs is probably way higher than union. If that is true, then why aren't the non union employers taking huge advantages of their employees?

Because nobody wants to work for a company that treats their employees like crap. The market self-corrects. Unions are no longer necessary.

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 01:56 PM
Get a new job. You don't have a right to work there, and why would you want to work there if you hate(d) it so much? If you are worth hiring, someone else will hire you. It's not like you have one job and if you lose it, you are unemployed for the rest of your life.

It has become clear to me that you believe that you have a fundamental right to a job. Guess what? You don't. You can't have a right to anything infringes upon another's personal property rights or freedoms.

If I don't want to hire you, I don't have to. If I want to hire you and pay you crap, that's my call. You work for me. Go work somewhere else if you can't live by my rules (as long as they aren't unconstitutionally discriminatory). You can't make me pay you more. You have to make yourself so indisposable so that I have no other choice but to pay you more.


I no longer work there, I haven't worked there for over two years. And yes I looked for a new job every day that I was working there. Remember regardless of which administration you want to blame we have been in the middle of a recession for the past several years so it was not like the average joe on the street had a bunch of jobs to chose from. Eventually I came across the job that I have now which may not pay as much as I used to make at my old job prior to them robbing us out of our commission but it is not at all stressful and I leave each day with my peace of mind and that is worth more than any amount of money can buy.

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 01:59 PM
Because nobody wants to work for a company that treats their employees like crap. The market self-corrects. Unions are no longer necessary.


You are right nobody wants to work for an job that treats them like crap but this is an employer's market so they don't have to pay their employees a competitive wage because no other company does either since businesses use the economy as an excuse to raise prices but lower employee wages all while fattening their bottom line. Kind of ironic because a lot of these big businesses are the reason why the economy tanked in the first place. SMH.

Star_Cards
02-07-2012, 02:50 PM
You are right nobody wants to work for an job that treats them like crap but this is an employer's market so they don't have to pay their employees a competitive wage because no other company does either since businesses use the economy as an excuse to raise prices but lower employee wages all while fattening their bottom line. Kind of ironic because a lot of these big businesses are the reason why the economy tanked in the first place. SMH.

I'll speak for the company I work for... we still get paid a competitive wage and they haven't cut any of our benefits since the economic slide.

I do agree that there are a lot of companies just sitting on cash and not hiring, which does hurt the economy as a whole. Slowly they have and will start hiring again though.

mrveggieman
02-07-2012, 02:55 PM
I'll speak for the company I work for... we still get paid a competitive wage and they haven't cut any of our benefits since the economic slide.

I do agree that there are a lot of companies just sitting on cash and not hiring, which does hurt the economy as a whole. Slowly they have and will start hiring again though.


I'm sure companies will hire again but will not pay their employees as much as they used to and blame it on the economy.

AUTaxMan
02-07-2012, 04:53 PM
I'm sure companies will hire again but will not pay their employees as much as they used to and blame it on the economy.

Why should they pay their employees as much as they used to?

duane1969
02-07-2012, 06:10 PM
Why should they pay their employees as much as they used to?

Beat me to it. There is no moral, legal or ethical reason that they would be required to match any previous salary. If the market doesn't support the wage then it would be economic suicide to pay a salary that is excessive.

mrveggieman
02-08-2012, 08:21 AM
These big companies don't want to pay their employees a livable wage and blame it on the economy but then turn around and complain because no one wants to buy their products because they can't afford them. It's a classic case of a dog chasing it's tail. SMH.

Star_Cards
02-08-2012, 11:16 AM
My company is pretty huge (international with thousands of employees) and while I'd love to make more than what I do know I still receive a livable wage.

I get what you are saying, but I just think there are a lot more fair companies out there than not and this lends to unions not being needed as much as there once were. IMO.

AUTaxMan
02-08-2012, 11:39 AM
These big companies don't want to pay their employees a livable wage and blame it on the economy but then turn around and complain because no one wants to buy their products because they can't afford them. It's a classic case of a dog chasing it's tail. SMH.

Which big companies are you talking about?

mrveggieman
02-08-2012, 11:41 AM
Which big companies are you talking about?


I'm not going to name drop but 2 of my previous employers were like that.

AUTaxMan
02-08-2012, 12:16 PM
I'm not going to name drop but 2 of my previous employers were like that.

You use your anecdotal experiences to paint all corporations with the same brush, and you won't even name them?

mrveggieman
02-08-2012, 12:30 PM
You use your anecdotal experiences to paint all corporations with the same brush, and you won't even name them?


You being a lawyer know it's certian things that you want to say but are better off unsaid. :winking0071: