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mrveggieman
02-13-2012, 10:58 AM
I got a quick question. This is mainly directed at people who are really into their faith but anyone with an opinion may answer. I know that both the bible and the koran frown upon alcohol consumption. What about non alcoholic beers like miller sharps and odhouls? Would they be considered kosher?

AUTaxMan
02-13-2012, 11:02 AM
The Bible does not frown on alcohol consumption. It frowns on drunkenness and alcohol abuse.

mrveggieman
02-13-2012, 11:15 AM
The Bible does not frown on alcohol consumption. It frowns on drunkenness and alcohol abuse.


Here's a quote from the bible regarding strong drinks as well as the koran prohibits intoxicants. (BTW I know that you are not muslim I just wanted to put that as a fyi to the fourm)

Proverbs 20:1 (KJV):
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


You who believe, liquor and gambling, idols and raffles, are only the filthy work of Satan; turn aside from it so that you may prosper.




al-Ma`idah 5:90 (http://islamawakened.com/quran/5/90)

AUTaxMan
02-13-2012, 11:23 AM
Here's a quote from the bible regarding strong drinks as well as the koran prohibits intoxicants. (BTW I know that you are not muslim I just wanted to put that as a fyi to the fourm)

Proverbs 20:1 (KJV):
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


You who believe, liquor and gambling, idols and raffles, are only the filthy work of Satan; turn aside from it so that you may prosper.




al-Ma`idah 5:90 (http://islamawakened.com/quran/5/90)

That does not mean don't drink alcohol. It means that, knowing what its over-consumption can lead to, alcohol is not to be taken lightly.

shrewsbury
02-13-2012, 11:27 AM
Proverbs 20:1 (KJV):
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


that statement does not say god is against anything, rather it is pointing out common sense.

drink a little, you will talk some crap, drink alot and it will be worse, and if you (the drinker) does not know this or if the person hearing the drunken talk does not know this, then you're dumb!


You who believe, liquor and gambling, idols and raffles, are only the filthy work of Satan; turn aside from it so that you may prosper.

this is common sense as well, you will have a hard time functioning, much less being a productive member of society, if you allow drugs, alcohol, or gambling consume you.

Muslims and Christians both drink, just like anyone else. not all people drink, niether do all christians or muslims.

Jesus turned water into wine, so i am thinking he is ok with wine drinking.

mrveggieman
02-13-2012, 11:32 AM
that statement does not say god is against anything, rather it is pointing out common sense.

drink a little, you will talk some crap, drink alot and it will be worse, and if you (the drinker) does not know this or if the person hearing the drunken talk does not know this, then you're dumb!



this is common sense as well, you will have a hard time functioning, much less being a productive member of society, if you allow drugs, alcohol, or gambling consume you.

Muslims and Christians both drink, just like anyone else. not all people drink, niether do all christians or muslims.

Jesus turned water into wine, so i am thinking he is ok with wine drinking.

You are on point with everything except for the last part which I have to disagree with you. I am familiar with the story of jesus turning water into "wine" but how I was taught by my bishop that the wine that the bible was referring to would be the equivilant to today's grape soda or juice.

AUTaxMan
02-13-2012, 11:36 AM
You are on point with everything except for the last part which I have to disagree with you. I am familiar with the story of jesus turning water into "wine" but how I was taught by my bishop that the wine that the bible was referring to would be the equivilant to today's grape soda or juice.

Our pastor covered this story last week actually, and he said that it was likely alcoholic, although the wine consumed back then was much more watered down that it is today.

mrveggieman
02-13-2012, 12:11 PM
Our pastor covered this story last week actually, and he said that it was likely alcoholic, although the wine consumed back then was much more watered down that it is today.


So do you think it would be the equivilent to adhouls which technically may contain a trace amount of alcohol even though it is legally non alcholoic?

AUTaxMan
02-13-2012, 12:19 PM
So do you think it would be the equivilent to adhouls which technically may contain a trace amount of alcohol even though it is legally non alcholoic?

My understanding is that it had more than trace amounts, although I don't think the ABV is really all that important. The effects of the alcohol on the mind is what matters.

shrewsbury
02-13-2012, 12:26 PM
no, it was full on wine!
there was crappy wine and good wine back then, just like today. often the good wine was served until the guests were drunk, then the crap was brought out, because no one would notice.

this is obvious, if the passage is read.

i am unsure why some one would say different, there is no need to protect Jesus' reputation, he is Jesus after all!

duane1969
02-13-2012, 12:35 PM
I was raised in the Baptist church and married a Pentecostal preacher's daughter. In both religions (at least the churches I have attended, maybe not the entire religion) drinking non-alcoholic beers is essentially considered the worldly body craving worldly things and giving into that craving, even if it is non-alcoholic, is giving in to a worldly craving.

With that said, my mother has kidney problems and her doctor advised her to drink a beer a day to help keep her kidneys cleansed and active. She started drinking an O'Doul's a day to fulfill her medical needs while trying to maintain her religious beliefs.

So, consuimg a non-alcoholic beer is essentially admitting a desire to drink beer but trying to fight the body's urges by drinking non-alcoholic beer. The net result is a belief that eventually you will succumb to greater desires and have alcoholic beer. Thus, it is best to avoid all versions.

AUTaxMan
02-13-2012, 02:57 PM
no, it was full on wine!
there was crappy wine and good wine back then, just like today. often the good wine was served until the guests were drunk, then the crap was brought out, because no one would notice.

this is obvious, if the passage is read.

i am unsure why some one would say different, there is no need to protect Jesus' reputation, he is Jesus after all!

As I was taught it, if you go back to the original Greek text, the use of the phrase "had too much to drink" as used in the story means something different than the way we conceptualize it today. Literally, it meant that one had consumed too much for the palate to discern the good wine from the bad wine. It did not mean full-blown drunkenness, as in "I had too much to drink last night and woke up in a New Orleans gutter."

ensbergcollector
02-13-2012, 03:35 PM
As I was taught it, if you go back to the original Greek text, the use of the phrase "had too much to drink" as used in the story means something different than the way we conceptualize it today. Literally, it meant that one had consumed too much for the palate to discern the good wine from the bad wine. It did not mean full-blown drunkenness, as in "I had too much to drink last night and woke up in a New Orleans gutter."

i have heard this taught a number of different ways. i will check the greek tomorrow and get back with you guys.

cardmasters
02-13-2012, 06:39 PM
noah got drunk so wine must been strong back then to.

OnePimpTiger
02-13-2012, 09:17 PM
You are on point with everything except for the last part which I have to disagree with you. I am familiar with the story of jesus turning water into "wine" but how I was taught by my bishop that the wine that the bible was referring to would be the equivilant to today's grape soda or juice.

I have heard that all my life as well and I think it's hooey...the modern day religion trying to make the Bible fit it's beliefs.

Jesus drank wine...the real stuff...and it's not a terrible, blasphemous abomination. If you take the Bible at it's literal translation, nowhere does it say not to consume alcohol, it says to avoid drunkenness. For some people, moderation is not an option when it comes to alcohol. For those people, it's best not to drink at all, not to tempt yourself. For others, a glass of wine, beer, liquor, whatever is not a problem and there's nothing saying they shouldn't do it.

shrewsbury
02-14-2012, 11:14 AM
onepimptiger, nice post.



For some people, moderation is not an option

exactly and this can be a huge issue. the mind, body, and spirit can become "ill" and this is what you should try to avoid.

Wickabee
02-14-2012, 12:18 PM
I have heard that all my life as well and I think it's hooey...the modern day religion trying to make the Bible fit it's beliefs.

Jesus drank wine...the real stuff...and it's not a terrible, blasphemous abomination. If you take the Bible at it's literal translation, nowhere does it say not to consume alcohol, it says to avoid drunkenness. For some people, moderation is not an option when it comes to alcohol. For those people, it's best not to drink at all, not to tempt yourself. For others, a glass of wine, beer, liquor, whatever is not a problem and there's nothing saying they shouldn't do it.
Bang on. The Bible does warn about "druggery" but doesn't seem to fit alcohol into that category. Jesus not only turned water into wine, he turned water into good wine. If I'm not mistaken, the account states that many were surprised as, most hosts would serve the good wine until the guests were tipsy and not paying attention and then bring out the worst of what they had. When Jesus turned the water into wine, it was actually better wine than they had already been drinking.

In short, yeah alcohol consumption is okay according to the bible, drunkenness and abuse are not.