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bud7562
02-15-2012, 04:24 PM
this country sure going to hell with all the studpit laws they got???

paradigm81
02-15-2012, 04:36 PM
Specifically what is bothering you my friend?

bud7562
02-15-2012, 05:44 PM
about the marrige laws, the same sex marrige its dont shows that in the bible. whats wrong with that picture???

mrveggieman
02-15-2012, 05:50 PM
You mean the bible speaking against same sex relations? If I could give my two cents on it yes it may be morrally wrong in the biblical sense but not everyone goes by the bible. People have been homosexual since day one and it isn't going anywhere. Hell if straight people can get married, divorced and have to pay alimony why can't gay people be subject to the same penalties?

bud7562
02-15-2012, 06:07 PM
You mean the bible speaking against same sex relations? If I could give my two cents on it yes it may be morrally wrong in the biblical sense but not everyone goes by the bible. People have been homosexual since day one and it isn't going anywhere. Hell if straight people can get married, divorced and have to pay alimony why can't gay people be subject to the same penalties? than you should let the mental poeple out of hosptle and let then run the govement right????

shrewsbury
02-15-2012, 06:10 PM
The USA is great.

sure we have flaws, and argue among ourselves, but any FREE society will.

i am against same sex marriages, but not because being gay is evil or wrong. (and just to note, i have been married for nearly 20 years and it is my only marriage, and we have raised 3 kids together)

one thing is, i would not base a law on my own set of beliefs, and sexual preference is certainly a personal thing. i don't expect people to like peas because i do, nor pick pepsi over coke because i do. i don't expect people to watch the same shows on tv that i do, nor believe in the same god as i do.

personal preference is outside of what is right or wrong, it is when you try mixing them you end up with a mess.

raping, molesting, stealing, are all easy wrongs, no one should do it to no one for no reason (triple negative!!)

but two adults who decide to participate in activities that are not wrong, just unliked by some, should not be punished.

getting your face pierced, farting in public, or cross dressing isn't for me, but it isn't hurting anyone, so whatever, i find it dumb, strange, and freaky, but that's my personal opinion.

shrewsbury
02-15-2012, 06:14 PM
than you should let the mental poeple out of hosptle and let then run the govement right????

so being gay is a mental illness? is that in the bible? i can say, no it is not in the bible, and in some cases may be an illness, but not in all.

my wife and i have best friends who are gay, they have been together for over 10 years, and our great people, with good jobs, a nice house. both were married to men before and now choose to be with eachother.

not for me, but what they do behind closed doors is not my business, as long as they are not harming others.

bud7562
02-15-2012, 06:23 PM
so being gay is a mental illness? is that in the bible? i can say, no it is not in the bible, and in some cases may be an illness, but not in all.

my wife and i have best friends who are gay, they have been together for over 10 years, and our great people, with good jobs, a nice house. both were married to men before and now choose to be with eachother.

not for me, but what they do behind closed doors is not my business, as long as they are not harming others. that why god wipe out the whole world becase every thing was like that in the days of mosse and with the ten comments?????

shrewsbury
02-15-2012, 06:36 PM
i am guessing their is a language barrier here, but i think i understand what you are saying.

If you are refering to Moses' commandments from god, them i am guessing you are not christian, because jesus did some tweaking there.

did god flood the earth because of just sexuality? no, greed, murder, and ego would be way up on that list. do we not remember the tower of babel? no mention of a homosexual shooting that arrow, perhaps the story was about mans desire to be on gods level, mans ego overcoming him? but, perhaps not.

we do not, and i do not, base the laws of everyone from the bible. personally i try to be aware of the teaching of jesus, but i don't expect everyone else to, it would be nice, but it would take force, and jesus doesn't need to use much force, it only takes a slight movement from him to change things.

then we would have to determine the absolute definition of all things in the bible, much less figure out what is and isn't holy scripture. then we would have the huge issue of who is the real prophet, how many have already died trying to do this.

if you live by the bible you are a good person in my eyes, if you live strictly by the bible, you may be a better person than i, in my eyes.

if you try to get everyone to do the same, great, if you force them to? well, if god wanted that, god would simply do that. god could show up and change everything for everyone, but god will not, because god gave us free choice, even from the start with adam and eve, it all has been about our choices, not being forced to a choice.

but again, this is just my personal opinion, so it may be right to only me, and i am ok with that, and so is God.

Star_Cards
02-15-2012, 10:43 PM
about the marrige laws, the same sex marrige its dont shows that in the bible. whats wrong with that picture???

you think the country would go to hell if the United States started officially recognizing same sex marriage? Do you think it is just as bad that there are same sexed people coupling off even though our archaic laws keep that right away from them?

The bible should have nothing to do with what our laws should deem as allowable or not. Why would we make laws based on a single religion in a country where we have lots of different citizens that believe all sorts of different things and all have the right to do so?

shrewsbury
02-15-2012, 10:44 PM
nice post!

Star_Cards
02-15-2012, 10:45 PM
I find myself thinking that if our country is going to hell it would be more likely caused by poor grammar and bad spelling.

Star_Cards
02-15-2012, 10:46 PM
that why god wipe out the whole world becase every thing was like that in the days of mosse and with the ten comments?????

when did god wipe out the whole world?

Greengoblin782
02-15-2012, 11:14 PM
this country sure going to hell with all the studpit laws they got???

I just have one question for you. How old are you? I can't take this thread seriously because it is ludicrous to think the world is going to hell because of homosexuals.

Why shouldn't every person male or female have the right to get married. Really the year is 2012 any homosexuality is all over the place anymore. Just live with it. I feel if you have nothing good to say about a subject don't say anything at all. It is just going to make you look dumb.

Wickabee
02-16-2012, 03:18 AM
If it's perfectly okay for a man to marry a woman and divorce her for no reason and marry another and divorce her and marry another and divorce her and mar...

you see where I'm going with this? Something about the sanctity of marriage being an illusion.

bud7562
02-16-2012, 08:20 AM
thats the only way they gets votes from poeple like that so they stay in offes. we dont make the laws the goverment does. they always listen to the wrong poeple right? i been aruond when this country...

bud7562
02-16-2012, 08:32 AM
I just have one question for you. How old are you? I can't take this thread seriously because it is ludicrous to think the world is going to hell because of homosexuals.

Why shouldn't every person male or female have the right to get married. Really the year is 2012 any homosexuality is all over the place anymore. Just live with it. I feel if you have nothing good to say about a subject don't say anything at all. It is just going to make you look dumb. true religion dont belived in the same sex marriage. i been around when this country was only 48 states?

mrveggieman
02-16-2012, 09:36 AM
I understand that some religions don't believe in homosexuality and that is their right to do so. However not everyone follows the same religion or any religion at all. If you are against homosexuality you would be more effective praying for the homosexual than to say that the country is going to hell. Remember hate the sin and not the sinner.

duwal
02-16-2012, 01:51 PM
this country sure going to hell with all the studpit laws they got???


I think the country is not 'going to hell' at all, but if it ever was it would be because of people that have views and opinions just like yours

Star_Cards
02-16-2012, 01:57 PM
I don't follow. Are you saying that the only way politicians get votes it to rule by the bible?

Star_Cards
02-16-2012, 01:58 PM
true religion dont belived in the same sex marriage. i been around when this country was only 48 states?

true religion? so you are saying that everyone in this country should follow one single religion and thus out rules for everyone should follow that as well?

bud7562
02-16-2012, 03:05 PM
I think the country is not 'going to hell' at all, but if it ever was it would be because of people that have views and opinions just like yours than people like you dont belived in the bible or follow the news to see whats going on in this world????

mrveggieman
02-16-2012, 03:16 PM
than people like you dont belived in the bible or follow the news to see whats going on in this world????

God made us all individual and gave us all different personalities. Like I said earlier hate the sin but not the sinner. You can do more by offering love and pray to people than hatred and judgement. My bishop teaches that homosexuality is a demonic spirit but homosexuals are not evil people. Remember you can get more flies with honey than you can with poop.

shrewsbury
02-16-2012, 03:25 PM
My bishop teaches that homosexuality is a demonic spirit but homosexuals are not evil people.

really? i agree with the part they are not evil, well most are not!

it's funny that when people have a different lifestyle than us, some say they must be sick or possessed, maybe some are, but not all.

mrveggieman
02-16-2012, 03:31 PM
really? i agree with the part they are not evil, well most are not!

it's funny that when people have a different lifestyle than us, some say they must be sick or possessed, maybe some are, but not all.


I don't know all the logistics of homosexuality but I do believe that not everyone is going to have the same religious views and we live here together and are going to have to all get along. That being said consenting adults should all have the rights to do as the please and if what one man or woman does in his or her bedroom is not morally right that is God's place to judge and not ours. The only thing that we should do is offer our prayers, let go and let God.

shrewsbury
02-16-2012, 04:52 PM
I agree with that!

duwal
02-16-2012, 06:17 PM
than people like you dont belived in the bible or follow the news to see whats going on in this world????


I absolutely do not believe in the bible one bit. I do watch the news and I have to say that as far as the U.S. goes there are dozens of other pressing issues that are ahead of homophobes like yourself worried about the issue of gay marriage and homosexuality which doesn't affect you AT ALL

shrewsbury
02-16-2012, 07:17 PM
duwal, i am guessing you do not believe any of the religious based material in the bible, or do you believe all of it was made up, even the historical references?

bud7562
02-16-2012, 08:07 PM
duwal, i am guessing you do not believe any of the religious based material in the bible, or do you believe all of it was made up, even the historical references? thats vary true what you said.every thing said in the bible is true in most part?

habsheaven
02-16-2012, 09:49 PM
If I had to put a number on it, I would say about 15% of the Bible is the truth. I doubt you can find a single story in the Bible that is 100% truthful.

Wickabee
02-16-2012, 09:51 PM
I read the bible and I do believe in a God.
The one that apparently says homosecuality is evil is not one that I follow though.

Let's put it this way:
God made us in his image
Homosexuality has been a part of human nature forever.
Therefor...

anyone?

shrewsbury
02-17-2012, 12:07 AM
Homosexuality has been a part of human nature forever.

not for all of us!!!

Wickabee
02-17-2012, 04:01 AM
not for all of us!!!
No one is calling you a homosexual. Relax. My point is, pretty much as long as there has been people, there has been homosexuality.

shrewsbury
02-17-2012, 11:04 AM
not worried if you are calling me one, have 3 kids and been married for 20 years, so no big deal to me.

but i agree with the last part!

bud7562
02-17-2012, 11:32 AM
not worried if you are calling me one, have 3 kids and been married for 20 years, so no big deal to me.

but i agree with the last part! i agreed with you, i been marrie to same woman for 35 years one girl and a grandgirl that is going on 6

ensbergcollector
02-17-2012, 12:00 PM
I read the bible and I do believe in a God.
The one that apparently says homosecuality is evil is not one that I follow though.

Let's put it this way:
God made us in his image
Homosexuality has been a part of human nature forever.
Therefor...

anyone?

not really wanting to get into this conversation but i guess i can't help myself. there have been a ton of sins that have been part of human nature forever. that doesn't mean anything? if you believe the bible, cain killed his brother abel. does that mean murder is ok because it has been around forever??

mrveggieman
02-17-2012, 12:51 PM
not really wanting to get into this conversation but i guess i can't help myself. there have been a ton of sins that have been part of human nature forever. that doesn't mean anything? if you believe the bible, cain killed his brother abel. does that mean murder is ok because it has been around forever??

We can both agree per the bible both murder and homosexuality are both wrong in God's eyes. The difference between the two is murder is hurting someone against their will but homosexuality is not. Let consenting adults do what they please and when it is all said and done whoever is morally wrong they will be judged by God and not us.

ensbergcollector
02-17-2012, 12:58 PM
We can both agree per the bible both murder and homosexuality are both wrong in God's eyes. The difference between the two is murder is hurting someone against their will but homosexuality is not. Let consenting adults do what they please and when it is all said and done whoever is morally wrong they will be judged by God and not us.

i was not trying to get into a comparison of murder and homosexuality. just trying to say that the argument that something has been around forever is not a good justification that it is acceptable.

mrveggieman
02-17-2012, 01:05 PM
i was not trying to get into a comparison of murder and homosexuality. just trying to say that the argument that something has been around forever is not a good justification that it is acceptable.


In this case it is. Homosexuals have been around since day one and will be around until the end of time. If what the bible says is true about homosexuality being immoral they are only hurting themselves. I couldn't care less about what another consenting adult does in the privacy and comfort of their own bedroom and neither should any of ya'll.

ensbergcollector
02-17-2012, 01:32 PM
In this case it is. Homosexuals have been around since day one and will be around until the end of time. If what the bible says is true about homosexuality being immoral they are only hurting themselves. I couldn't care less about what another consenting adult does in the privacy and comfort of their own bedroom and neither should any of ya'll.

how so? how does something being around since the beginning of humanity mean that it is acceptable? i am not even speaking out against homosexuality, just taking issue with the argument being used to justify it.

mrveggieman
02-17-2012, 01:40 PM
Who is homosexuality really bothering? How does what a homosexual do with another consenting adult have any bearing on you and your family?

ensbergcollector
02-17-2012, 01:47 PM
Who is homosexuality really bothering? How does what a homosexual do with another consenting adult have any bearing on you and your family?

who said it did? again, i was stating that the argument that because something has been around since the beginning of time is not a good argument that something is moral or acceptable.

i did not even say anything about homosexuality being wrong. where did I say it had any bearing on my family?

marekschwarz33
02-17-2012, 01:50 PM
As long as no basic rights are being infringed, the government should not impose moral values upon it's citizens...this thread confuses me...Is the original poster trolling us or serious?

duwal
02-17-2012, 01:53 PM
As long as no basic rights are being infringed, the government should not impose moral values upon it's citizens...this thread confuses me...Is the original poster trolling us or serious?


sadly I think they are actually serious about it

Wickabee
02-17-2012, 04:58 PM
who said it did? again, i was stating that the argument that because something has been around since the beginning of time is not a good argument that something is moral or acceptable.

i did not even say anything about homosexuality being wrong. where did I say it had any bearing on my family?
No, I get what you're saying.

In my mind, something is only wrong once it hurts someone (or thing) else. Homosexuality does not do that and has been a part of human nature since the beginning. Murder does hurt others and has been around since the beginning.
There's the difference.
Where I think we're missing each other is that you're using only 1 criteria here, while I'm using 2. To put it another way, I, personally, have no problems with drug use. If you wanna destroy your body, I think that's your right. Many drugs lead to other crime, which we already have laws for.
But at the same time, the dealings, not the drugs, are the real killings and I totally get why many drugs are illegal, just for the fact of the body count that comes along with it by definition. To put it another way.

1 - Drug use hurts no one but the user and has been around for as long as people.
2 - Drug dealing hurts many people and has been around for a little less time.

In my mind, 2 is wrong and 1 is not. That's just me.

I realize that some reading this will agree, while other will vehemently disagree and that's fine. That's the fun of life. Personally I think the bible is a great book with lots to teach, but to me it's nothing else. I don't hold it higher esteem because it is supposedly (not wanting to start that argument) the word of God. I was raised reading the bible and continue to do so from time to time.
What bothers me when when someone says, "It's wrong because it says so in the Bible!" I think that's horrible thinking. Nothing, to me, is just so because the bible says so. To me if the bible says something is wrong, I need to find out why. On an issue such as murder, rape, theft, adultery, etc I can agree these things are wrong (special circumstances aside). I cannot, however, understand why the bible says homosexuality is wrong. The closest my thinking can come is that it goes against "Be fruitful and multiply" but I don't think we've screwed that one up to badly as a whole. The population is still growing.

If I see something in the bible without reasoning to back it up, I take it as something along the lines of the Mosaic laws that Christians don't follow anymore. Yes, it's in the New Testament too, but I still see it the same way.

As to the idea of Gay Marriage itself, I think if two people can meet at a bar and be husband and wife 3 hours later, or a man can have 6 ex-wives and go ahead and try for that 7th, why can't two dudes get married if they want?

cardmasters
02-17-2012, 07:16 PM
God gave us free will and I don't think he wants humans to take it away. Remember Jesus know someone who commited adultry and told the group that was about to stone her (can't give exact quote) only the person who never sin can cast the first stone and that is one of the ten commandents broken.

mrveggieman
02-20-2012, 09:18 AM
God gave us free will and I don't think he wants humans to take it away. Remember Jesus know someone who commited adultry and told the group that was about to stone her (can't give exact quote) only the person who never sin can cast the first stone and that is one of the ten commandents broken.


John 8:7

King James Version (KJV)

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.