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View Full Version : Another OBAMA friend and HIDDEN BY MAINSTREAM MEDIA



tsjct
03-08-2012, 05:54 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/07/buzzefeed-selectively-edits-obama-tape

pghin08
03-08-2012, 09:10 PM
I should just create an entire P&R section for Obama-bashing. Who cares who his friends are/were? The Bush family was friends with the bin Laden family, big whoop?

Honestly, and this is terrible, the first thing I thought when I saw this was, "People think Obama killed Breitbart over THIS??"

tsjct
03-08-2012, 11:38 PM
I should just create an entire P&R section for Obama-bashing. Who cares who his friends are/were? The Bush family was friends with the bin Laden family, big whoop?

Honestly, and this is terrible, the first thing I thought when I saw this was, "People think Obama killed Breitbart over THIS??"

Just shows who he really is and its hard for you OBAMA backers to admit it. He is a RADICAL and hangs out with Radicals. Is this who you really want leading the greatest country ever founded?? :confused0024:

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 12:20 AM
I should just create an entire P&R section for Obama-bashing. Who cares who his friends are/were? The Bush family was friends with the bin Laden family, big whoop?

Honestly, and this is terrible, the first thing I thought when I saw this was, "People think Obama killed Breitbart over THIS??"

Obama is a radical and has associated with radicals for all of his adult life. Stating the truth about him is not "Obama bashing."

I agree that the video is a dud. They say there are more to come, but I am not holding my breath. His terrible policies should be enough to get him fired.

mrveggieman
03-09-2012, 08:14 AM
If crap like this and lies about where our president was born is the best that you people can do I look forward to four more years of President Obama.

pghin08
03-09-2012, 09:05 AM
Obama is a radical and has associated with radicals for all of his adult life. Stating the truth about him is not "Obama bashing."

I agree that the video is a dud. They say there are more to come, but I am not holding my breath. His terrible policies should be enough to get him fired.

That should be the main point. I don't care who your friends are. We've had a few years of Obama now, and guess what, he's not that radical. His most "radical" legislation was Obamacare, which was a watered down iteration of what he wanted to do anyways. There's been nothing at all radical about his presidency.

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 09:25 AM
That should be the main point. I don't care who your friends are. We've had a few years of Obama now, and guess what, he's not that radical. His most "radical" legislation was Obamacare, which was a watered down iteration of what he wanted to do anyways. There's been nothing at all radical about his presidency.

Not that radical? I would consider his overall goal of class warfare that permeates pretty much all of his economic policies radical. I would consider his unprecedented war on Biblically based religions radical. I would consider his unprecedented foreign policy of pandering and appeasement radical. I would consider his lawless justice department radical. I would consider his policies of wealth distribution (i.e., stimulus, cap and trade, and ObamaCare) radical. I would consider the individual mandate radical. I'm sure I could think of more.

mrveggieman
03-09-2012, 09:33 AM
Not that radical? I would consider his overall goal of class warfare that permeates pretty much all of his economic policies radical. I would consider his unprecedented war on Biblically based religions radical. I would consider his unprecedented foreign policy of pandering and appeasement radical. I would consider his lawless justice department radical. I would consider his policies of wealth distribution (i.e., stimulus, cap and trade, and ObamaCare) radical. I would consider the individual mandate radical. I'm sure I could think of more.


Where do you get this nonsense from mrtaxman? :frusty:

*censored*
03-09-2012, 09:35 AM
"his unprecedented war on Biblically based religions"

Haha, wow.

Talk about losing all credibility in a single sentence.

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 09:43 AM
"his unprecedented war on Biblically based religions"

Haha, wow.

Talk about losing all credibility in a single sentence.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=106938

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 09:43 AM
Where do you get this nonsense from mrtaxman? :frusty:

Tell me where I am wrong. Use facts to support your argument.

duane1969
03-09-2012, 09:57 AM
I should just create an entire P&R section for Obama-bashing. Who cares who his friends are/were? The Bush family was friends with the bin Laden family, big whoop?

Honestly, and this is terrible, the first thing I thought when I saw this was, "People think Obama killed Breitbart over THIS??"


If crap like this and lies about where our president was born is the best that you people can do I look forward to four more years of President Obama.

This was the type of responses I expected. I have but one question and it is simple.

If it is no big deal, if it is irrelevant...why cover it up?

Star_Cards
03-09-2012, 10:05 AM
Just shows who he really is and its hard for you OBAMA backers to admit it. He is a RADICAL and hangs out with Radicals. Is this who you really want leading the greatest country ever founded?? :confused0024:

I haven't heard of Bell before. I did a quick google search. Sounds like he's anti semitic or at least alleged. I haven't looked enough to see some exact quotes to weigh in.

I will ask you this. If Obama is anti-semitic what has he done in his political work to back this up? If he had some master plan to hide his hatred of jews wouldn't he then start doing things while he's the president to show this racism?

Also, just because someone has a relationship with someone doesn't mean he's of the same mind and opinions of that person. I get that if I had a friend that was consumed with racial bigotry one probably wouldn't be friends with that person, but to assume that they were best buds probably isn't the case. Plus maybe Obama didn't see that side of him. I don't know. Bottom line, I judge a person by their own actions and thoughts not by a person they had as a professor or hugged on camera. And yes I get the association aspect of things, but what actions or words have you heard Obama say himself that show him to be antisemitic? To me that's most important when judging if an individual is bigoted himself.

mrveggieman
03-09-2012, 10:08 AM
I would consider his unprecedented war on Biblically based religions radical.


Use facts to back up this argument.

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 10:09 AM
Use facts to back up this argument.

I already did. Lots of facts. See page 1.

mrveggieman
03-09-2012, 10:11 AM
I already did. Lots of facts. See page 1.


What "fact" are you referring to? The only thing that I saw was some guy posting a link to a biased website and and lots of opinions against President Obama.

pghin08
03-09-2012, 10:15 AM
Duane- What evidence do you have that Obama was trying to cover it up?

TaxMan- Wealth redistribution? Where? All Obama has done on most of the things you mentioned is talk, the action has been minimal. That's my biggest problem with Mr. O. He talks about his ideas, but his implementation sucks.

duane1969
03-09-2012, 10:33 AM
Duane- What evidence do you have that Obama was trying to cover it up?

TaxMan- Wealth redistribution? Where? All Obama has done on most of the things you mentioned is talk, the action has been minimal. That's my biggest problem with Mr. O. He talks about his ideas, but his implementation sucks.

Charles Ogletree, who is the guy who let it come out, is the original guy who played a role in hiding it. He was an Obama confidant and advisor during the 2008 election campaign.

His direct quote about the video...



Now, what makes this so interesting when you think about it, of course, we hid this throughout the 2008 campaign -- I don't care if they find it now.

Here is the full video and transcript.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/03/08/exclusive-breitbartcom-unveils-unedited-video-obama-and-radical-professor

pghin08
03-09-2012, 10:34 AM
Charles Ogletree, who is the guy who let it come out, is the original guy who played a role in hiding it. He was an Obama confidant and advisor during the 2008 election campaign.

His direct quote about the video...



Here is the full video and transcript.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/03/08/exclusive-breitbartcom-unveils-unedited-video-obama-and-radical-professor

Ah, thanks.

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 10:43 AM
What "fact" are you referring to? The only thing that I saw was some guy posting a link to a biased website and and lots of opinions against President Obama.

You truly have your head buried in the sand. Every allegation in that list is a supported, footnoted fact. Read the footnoted articles if you question the allegations.

Star_Cards
03-09-2012, 10:45 AM
Not that radical? I would consider his overall goal of class warfare that permeates pretty much all of his economic policies radical. I would consider his unprecedented war on Biblically based religions radical. I would consider his unprecedented foreign policy of pandering and appeasement radical. I would consider his lawless justice department radical. I would consider his policies of wealth distribution (i.e., stimulus, cap and trade, and ObamaCare) radical. I would consider the individual mandate radical. I'm sure I could think of more.

what sort of things has he done to qualify a "war" against biblically based religions? Before you say wanting religious affiliated businesses to offer birth control that's hardly a war against biblically based religions. Why would a christian wage a war on his own sets of beliefs?

Your action of placing radical in front of everything Obama has done seems way radical in itself. Can you seriously sit there and tell me that Obama has radically changed anything that the U.S. government has done before he got there? If it's been done in the past it's hardly radical. In my opinion, radical hardly defines anything that he has done.

I personally don't think Obama has done anything that is way too drastic. Radical is extreme and there's really not much that I see that is extreme. You may disagree with some of his ideal, I do as well, but to classify them as radical just because you disagree with them is incorrect.

duane1969
03-09-2012, 10:46 AM
I haven't heard of Bell before. I did a quick google search. Sounds like he's anti semitic or at least alleged. I haven't looked enough to see some exact quotes to weigh in.

I will ask you this. If Obama is anti-semitic what has he done in his political work to back this up? If he had some master plan to hide his hatred of jews wouldn't he then start doing things while he's the president to show this racism?

Also, just because someone has a relationship with someone doesn't mean he's of the same mind and opinions of that person. I get that if I had a friend that was consumed with racial bigotry one probably wouldn't be friends with that person, but to assume that they were best buds probably isn't the case. Plus maybe Obama didn't see that side of him. I don't know. Bottom line, I judge a person by their own actions and thoughts not by a person they had as a professor or hugged on camera. And yes I get the association aspect of things, but what actions or words have you heard Obama say himself that show him to be antisemitic? To me that's most important when judging if an individual is bigoted himself.

Bell is essentially anti-anyone that isn't black. He wrote a fictional story about how whites will some day sell blacks to aliens to be slaves and the Jews will stand by and watch it.

The issue isn't whether or not Obama is anti-Semitic. The issue is his constant association with radicals. His formative years of early childhood and puberty into his time in college and even up until his election are full of constant association with extremist and radicals. Be it Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers or Derrick Bell, Obama has aligned himself with radicals for most of his life.

Furthermore, Obama continued to be close friends with and seek advice from Bell right up until Bell died about a year ago. So this isn't an issue of a casual friendship in college that died away 20 years ago either. Bell has been in Obama's ear even while Obama was sitting in the Oval Office.

The question is "Who is Obama?" Is he the charismatic, smiling "man of the people" that mrveggie and others want us to think he is or is there something lurking under the surface? Did the "God damn America" comments and others like it have an affect? Did the ideology of Bill Ayers rub off? Did the "anybody who isn't black is the enemy" mentality of Bell have an affect? It would be niave to think that Obama associated himself with these types of people throughtout his entire life and was not impacted or shaped by them.

pghin08
03-09-2012, 10:48 AM
If Obama really is trying to push the agenda of guys like Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Derrick Bell and everyone that you guys claim he's trying to, he SUCKS at it.

ensbergcollector
03-09-2012, 10:55 AM
What "fact" are you referring to? The only thing that I saw was some guy posting a link to a biased website and and lots of opinions against President Obama.

veggie- did you even look at the link he posted? can you say that a single item in the list is false?

Star_Cards
03-09-2012, 11:05 AM
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=106938

Why are people of a specific religion so offended if someone doesn't want to observe their religion. A lot of that list were instances of Obama not endorsing one single religion or lack of religion over another. In my opinion, he's recognizing that we are a country of free believers who do not have to believe one religion over another or believe in a religion at all so he or any government official doesn't need to endorse one.

Did you ever think that him covering up a cross or not saying "in god we trust" or not doing a prayer day or a prayer at an event is an action to take out religion from government all together, which is how it should be. There's a difference between doing that and waging a "war" on biblical based religion. It's frustrating to hear some people think that God and christianity or even religion of any kind is how everyone in this country believe and should be mentioned on a governmental level.

Not saying a prayer is not telling people they can't pray.

Not using the word "creator" is not telling people they can't believe in a creator.

Not observing a national prayer day is not telling people that they can't observe that day on their own.

Not showing a cross during a speech is not telling people they can't have crosses or observe the cross.

Having companies provide birth control to it's employees is not forcing people to use it if they do not want to even if it is for religious reasons.

Just because a religion is against something like same sex marriage or embryonic stem cell research doesn't mean it's a war against that religion.

To think that your religion is the end all be all and should rule the land and it's laws is extremely self centered. Just because a president does something or passes legislation that doesn't step in line with a religion doesn't mean that he is against that religion. Talk to me about a war against religion when he starts telling people that they can't worship or believe how they please. That's not happening and it will never happen. The only people trying to tell people how to believe tend to be some of the people who follow biblical based religion.

Star_Cards
03-09-2012, 11:09 AM
Bell is essentially anti-anyone that isn't black. He wrote a fictional story about how whites will some day sell blacks to aliens to be slaves and the Jews will stand by and watch it.

The issue isn't whether or not Obama is anti-Semitic. The issue is his constant association with radicals. His formative years of early childhood and puberty into his time in college and even up until his election are full of constant association with extremist and radicals. Be it Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers or Derrick Bell, Obama has aligned himself with radicals for most of his life.

Furthermore, Obama continued to be close friends with and seek advice from Bell right up until Bell died about a year ago. So this isn't an issue of a casual friendship in college that died away 20 years ago either. Bell has been in Obama's ear even while Obama was sitting in the Oval Office.

The question is "Who is Obama?" Is he the charismatic, smiling "man of the people" that mrveggie and others want us to think he is or is there something lurking under the surface? Did the "God damn America" comments and others like it have an affect? Did the ideology of Bill Ayers rub off? Did the "anybody who isn't black is the enemy" mentality of Bell have an affect? It would be niave to think that Obama associated himself with these types of people throughtout his entire life and was not impacted or shaped by them.

What actions has he done that proves that wright or bell has rubbed off on him. Take the most extreme things that wright said or bell said and tell me has Obama passed legislation that is that extreme or radical as some like to say. I say no. If someone has such hatred for a country (you say wright) or every race but his own (you say bell) I would think he would have done or said something to exemplify that hatred

Some people want to call not saying a prayer or covering up a cross, radical. I say it is a recognition that we are all part of a country that isn't all christian or forced to follow that religion.

Star_Cards
03-09-2012, 11:13 AM
veggie- did you even look at the link he posted? can you say that a single item in the list is false?

maybe not false, but hardly a war against religion or biblical based religion.

ensbergcollector
03-09-2012, 11:13 AM
Why are people of a specific religion so offended if someone doesn't want to observe their religion. A lot of that list were instances of Obama not endorsing one single religion or lack of religion over another. In my opinion, he's recognizing that we are a country of free believers who do not have to believe one religion over another or believe in a religion at all so he or any government official doesn't need to endorse one.

Did you ever think that him covering up a cross or not saying "in god we trust" or not doing a prayer day or a prayer at an event is an action to take out religion from government all together, which is how it should be. There's a difference between doing that and waging a "war" on biblical based religion. It's frustrating to hear some people think that God and christianity or even religion of any kind is how everyone in this country believe and should be mentioned on a governmental level.

Not saying a prayer is not telling people they can't pray.

Not using the word "creator" is not telling people they can't believe in a creator.

Not observing a national prayer day is not telling people that they can't observe that day on their own.

Not showing a cross during a speech is not telling people they can't have crosses or observe the cross.

Having companies provide birth control to it's employees is not forcing people to use it if they do not want to even if it is for religious reasons.

Just because a religion is against something like same sex marriage or embryonic stem cell research doesn't mean it's a war against that religion.

To think that your religion is the end all be all and should rule the land and it's laws is extremely self centered. Just because a president does something or passes legislation that doesn't step in line with a religion doesn't mean that he is against that religion. Talk to me about a war against religion when he starts telling people that they can't worship or believe how they please. That's not happening and it will never happen. The only people trying to tell people how to believe tend to be some of the people who follow biblical based religion.

it isn't about christianity, judaism, or any other religion being placed in prominence. It is about a very pointed shift in policy between this president and EVERY previous president. He has made a very pointed effort to avoid giving any preferential treatment to christianity or judaism while very pointedly giving preference to islam.
I get that someone that does not follow a specific religion will look at that list and say "what's the big deal." However, I would like to think that even someone that doesn't follow a religion could objectively look at that list and see a very pointed attempt to shift this countries policies, whether you agree with them or not.

pghin08
03-09-2012, 11:24 AM
it isn't about christianity, judaism, or any other religion being placed in prominence. It is about a very pointed shift in policy between this president and EVERY previous president. He has made a very pointed effort to avoid giving any preferential treatment to christianity or judaism while very pointedly giving preference to islam.
I get that someone that does not follow a specific religion will look at that list and say "what's the big deal." However, I would like to think that even someone that doesn't follow a religion could objectively look at that list and see a very pointed attempt to shift this countries policies, whether you agree with them or not.

How has he been giving preference to Islam? Because he doesn't cast them all as radical terrorists? You know Obama is Christian, right?

mrveggieman
03-09-2012, 11:36 AM
How has he been giving preference to Islam? Because he doesn't cast them all as radical terrorists? You know Obama is Christian, right?


Per the conservatives President Obama is a radical anti-white, anti-christian muslim from kenya.

mrveggieman
03-09-2012, 11:36 AM
Why are people of a specific religion so offended if someone doesn't want to observe their religion. A lot of that list were instances of Obama not endorsing one single religion or lack of religion over another. In my opinion, he's recognizing that we are a country of free believers who do not have to believe one religion over another or believe in a religion at all so he or any government official doesn't need to endorse one.

Did you ever think that him covering up a cross or not saying "in god we trust" or not doing a prayer day or a prayer at an event is an action to take out religion from government all together, which is how it should be. There's a difference between doing that and waging a "war" on biblical based religion. It's frustrating to hear some people think that God and christianity or even religion of any kind is how everyone in this country believe and should be mentioned on a governmental level.

Not saying a prayer is not telling people they can't pray.

Not using the word "creator" is not telling people they can't believe in a creator.

Not observing a national prayer day is not telling people that they can't observe that day on their own.

Not showing a cross during a speech is not telling people they can't have crosses or observe the cross.

Having companies provide birth control to it's employees is not forcing people to use it if they do not want to even if it is for religious reasons.

Just because a religion is against something like same sex marriage or embryonic stem cell research doesn't mean it's a war against that religion.

To think that your religion is the end all be all and should rule the land and it's laws is extremely self centered. Just because a president does something or passes legislation that doesn't step in line with a religion doesn't mean that he is against that religion. Talk to me about a war against religion when he starts telling people that they can't worship or believe how they please. That's not happening and it will never happen. The only people trying to tell people how to believe tend to be some of the people who follow biblical based religion.


CHURCH!! :love0030:

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 11:40 AM
what sort of things has he done to qualify a "war" against biblically based religions? Before you say wanting religious affiliated businesses to offer birth control that's hardly a war against biblically based religions. Why would a christian wage a war on his own sets of beliefs?

I don't think a Christian would wage a war on his own set of beliefs. The birth control this is a direct attack on freedom of exercise of religion. It essentially means that the "right" to have employer provided birth control is more important the that right of the employer to deny that coverage on the basis of his religious beliefs. It also runs afoul of the Civil Rights Act, which provides a specific exemption for religious employers and was granted to prevent the very thing that Obama is attempting to mandate.


Your action of placing radical in front of everything Obama has done seems way radical in itself. Can you seriously sit there and tell me that Obama has radically changed anything that the U.S. government has done before he got there? If it's been done in the past it's hardly radical. In my opinion, radical hardly defines anything that he has done.

The fact that Obama has not been able to implement all of his policies, mainly thanks to the republicans in the house, does not change the fact that the policies themselves are radical.


I personally don't think Obama has done anything that is way too drastic. Radical is extreme and there's really not much that I see that is extreme. You may disagree with some of his ideal, I do as well, but to classify them as radical just because you disagree with them is incorrect.

Do you not think ObamaCare is extreme? Does it not seem to you like we are losing a little more freedom each an every day? It's just a little thing here or there, but those things will eventually add up. That's how it happened in Germany in the 30s (no, I am not comparing Obama to Hitler).

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 11:44 AM
How has he been giving preference to Islam? Because he doesn't cast them all as radical terrorists? You know Obama is Christian, right?

May 2009 – While Obama does not host any National Day of Prayer event at the White House, he does host White House Iftar dinners in honor of Ramadan. 44

April 2010 – Christian leader Franklin Graham is disinvited from the Pentagon’s National Day of Prayer Event because of complaints from the Muslim community. 45

April 2010 – The Obama administration requires rewriting of government documents and a change in administration vocabulary to remove terms that are deemed offensive to Muslims, including jihad, jihadists, terrorists, radical Islamic, etc. 46

August 2010 – Obama speaks with great praise of Islam and condescendingly of Christianity. 47

August 2010 – Obama went to great lengths to speak out on multiple occasions on behalf of building an Islamic mosque at Ground Zero, while at the same time he was silent about a Christian church being denied permission to rebuild at that location. 48

2010 – While every White House traditionally issues hundreds of official proclamations and statements on numerous occasions, this White House avoids traditional Biblical holidays and events but regularly recognizes major Muslim holidays, as evidenced by its 2010 statements on Ramadan, Eid-ul-Fitr, Hajj, and Eid-ul-Adha. 49

October 2011 – Obama’s Muslim advisers block Middle Eastern Christians’ access to the White House. 50

February 2012 – The Obama administration makes effulgent apologies for Korans being burned by the U. S. military, 51 but when Bibles were burned by the military, numerous reasons were offered why it was the right thing to do. 52

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 11:45 AM
Per the conservatives President Obama is a radical anti-white, anti-christian muslim from kenya.

No. Please stop making these inane comments.

pghin08
03-09-2012, 11:50 AM
May 2009 – While Obama does not host any National Day of Prayer event at the White House, he does host White House Iftar dinners in honor of Ramadan. 44

April 2010 – Christian leader Franklin Graham is disinvited from the Pentagon’s National Day of Prayer Event because of complaints from the Muslim community. 45

April 2010 – The Obama administration requires rewriting of government documents and a change in administration vocabulary to remove terms that are deemed offensive to Muslims, including jihad, jihadists, terrorists, radical Islamic, etc. 46

August 2010 – Obama speaks with great praise of Islam and condescendingly of Christianity. 47

August 2010 – Obama went to great lengths to speak out on multiple occasions on behalf of building an Islamic mosque at Ground Zero, while at the same time he was silent about a Christian church being denied permission to rebuild at that location. 48

2010 – While every White House traditionally issues hundreds of official proclamations and statements on numerous occasions, this White House avoids traditional Biblical holidays and events but regularly recognizes major Muslim holidays, as evidenced by its 2010 statements on Ramadan, Eid-ul-Fitr, Hajj, and Eid-ul-Adha. 49

October 2011 – Obama’s Muslim advisers block Middle Eastern Christians’ access to the White House. 50

February 2012 – The Obama administration makes effulgent apologies for Korans being burned by the U. S. military, 51 but when Bibles were burned by the military, numerous reasons were offered why it was the right thing to do. 52


I would love to see some legit proof of some of these. But I understand we all have day jobs. If you find time to get around to it, it'd definitely be interesting for me to read up on.

mrveggieman
03-09-2012, 11:52 AM
No. Please stop making these inane comments.


I'm only going by what the conservative media says. If I requote it it is an inane comment but when they post it on their websites it is gospel. There is just no pleasing some people. :frusty:

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 11:52 AM
I would love to see some legit proof of some of these. But I understand we all have day jobs. If you find time to get around to it, it'd definitely be interesting for me to read up on.

Those are straight from the article I linked. The numbers after each are footnotes that link to source material.

tsjct
03-09-2012, 11:54 AM
I would love to see some legit proof of some of these. But I understand we all have day jobs. If you find time to get around to it, it'd definitely be interesting for me to read up on.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? proof??? Those are FACTS. :frusty:

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 11:56 AM
I'm only going by what the conservative media says. If I requote it it is an inane comment but when they post it on their websites it is gospel. There is just no pleasing some people. :frusty:

That is NOT what the conservative media says. Why don't you actually bring facts to one of these arguments for a change instead of simply making snide remarks? "You believe X," or "John Doe says X but believes Y" are not facts, they are opinions.

pghin08
03-09-2012, 12:03 PM
ARE YOU SERIOUS? proof??? Those are FACTS. :frusty:

Dude, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask for sources to the information being provided. I don't just take every single thing I read to be automatic fact, I like to at least do some sniffing around.

tsjct
03-09-2012, 12:09 PM
Dude, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask for sources to the information being provided. I don't just take every single thing I read to be automatic fact, I like to at least do some sniffing around.

You need proof that he just apologized for the burning of the Koran??? :frusty:

pghin08
03-09-2012, 12:10 PM
You need proof that he just apologized for the burning of the Koran??? :frusty:

I just said I wanted sources for some of those things. Yes, I saw him apologize for burning the Qur'an.

tsjct
03-09-2012, 12:14 PM
I just said I wanted sources for some of those things. Yes, I saw him apologize for burning the Qur'an.

as you can see i do not read the Qur'an so i did not spell it correctly but thanks for spell checking for me. Anyway i am now on OB side. With him in office its a great time to make some serious Cash in the Oil/Gas business. Run OB run.

Star_Cards
03-09-2012, 12:54 PM
I don't think a Christian would wage a war on his own set of beliefs. The birth control this is a direct attack on freedom of exercise of religion. It essentially means that the "right" to have employer provided birth control is more important the that right of the employer to deny that coverage on the basis of his religious beliefs. It also runs afoul of the Civil Rights Act, which provides a specific exemption for religious employers and was granted to prevent the very thing that Obama is attempting to mandate.

It does nothing of the sort. Any individual that works for the company that offers birth control has in no way been forced to use it or even use their co pay to purchase it. They simply ignore it if they want. If you want to argue that they are forcing the company I will entertain that, but that company is not a person. People are who have religious beliefs. Even the CEO and all of the companies leaders have the option not to buy or use the birth control
in this proposed plan. If you can't see that no one is forcing anyone to use or even buy or even have in their possession birth control then you are blind. Offering a service is not the same as making people use that service.


The fact that Obama has not been able to implement all of his policies, mainly thanks to the republicans in the house, does not change the fact that the policies themselves are radical. I see that point, but still wonder what all of these radical legislations are that haven't passed are.




Do you not think ObamaCare is extreme? Does it not seem to you like we are losing a little more freedom each an every day? It's just a little thing here or there, but those things will eventually add up. That's how it happened in Germany in the 30s (no, I am not comparing Obama to Hitler). I don't think I would. I may not agree with all of the plan but that doesn't mean it's radical. I get that germany in the 30's happened over time and little steps were made but I just don't see it here. Now if you want to talk about the patriot act or something like imminent domain as being radical then I would tend to think that those are two things I'd consider on the extreme side of things.

Rockman
03-09-2012, 01:15 PM
April 2010 – Christian leader Franklin Graham is disinvited from the Pentagon’s National Day of Prayer Event because of complaints from the Muslim community. 45




Can anyone explain to me how uninviting a bigot who has said that Islam is "a very evil and a very wicked religion. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2006/10/22/graham.html)" and a number of other prejudice comments towards Islam is a war on Christianity?

AUTaxMan
03-09-2012, 01:16 PM
It does nothing of the sort. Any individual that works for the company that offers birth control has in no way been forced to use it or even use their co pay to purchase it. They simply ignore it if they want. If you want to argue that they are forcing the company I will entertain that, but that company is not a person. People are who have religious beliefs. Even the CEO and all of the companies leaders have the option not to buy or use the birth control in this proposed plan. If you can't see that no one is forcing anyone to use or even buy or even have in their possession birth control then you are blind. Offering a service is not the same as making people use that service.

I am arguing that the company is being forced, not the employee. The owners of the companies are being forced to offer benefits that may be against their religious beliefs. That is an attack on freedom of religion. If you can't see that then you are blind. Are we next going to tell churches that they can't discriminate in hiring on the basis of a potential employee's religious beliefs?

And, this is off topic, but corporations are people. They are owned by people. They are run by people. They have their own cultures and personalities. The people who own a business should not be required to disregard their religious convictions merely because they operate their business through a legal entity as opposed to being a sole proprietorship.


Now if you want to talk about the patriot act or something like imminent domain as being radical then I would tend to think that those are two things I'd consider on the extreme side of things.

I have problems with both of the latter issues as well.

pghin08
03-09-2012, 01:53 PM
as you can see i do not read the Qur'an so i did not spell it correctly but thanks for spell checking for me. Anyway i am now on OB side. With him in office its a great time to make some serious Cash in the Oil/Gas business. Run OB run.

You're right with your spelling, it can go either way, I just always used Qur'an. But seriously, Obama really has nothing to do with the price of oil.

Star_Cards
03-09-2012, 03:01 PM
I am arguing that the company is being forced, not the employee. The owners of the companies are being forced to offer benefits that may be against their religious beliefs. That is an attack on freedom of religion. If you can't see that then you are blind. Are we next going to tell churches that they can't discriminate in hiring on the basis of a potential employee's religious beliefs?

And, this is off topic, but corporations are people. They are owned by people. They are run by people. They have their own cultures and personalities. The people who own a business should not be required to disregard their religious convictions merely because they operate their business through a legal entity as opposed to being a sole proprietorship.



I have problems with both of the latter issues as well.

it's not about churches at all. it's about companies. there's a huge difference. no one is telling a church they have to do anything form my understanding. If an owner can claim freedom on religion and get out of certain regulations then we'd have a lot of owners being able to get out of a lot of other things. Just because it's against an owners religion shouldn't be a reason to let them have special privileges over any other company. From what I see if you do that then the line gets very blurry.

I'm not even sure that the government should force a company to offer birth control because not every company is even forced to offer healthcare at the moment. I just think that if it's going to be a law then all companies should be held to that no matter if they are affiliated with a religion or not. If they are not a church then they are a business. An owners religious belief shouldn't be an out from having to follow every other business.


I see a slight difference from a corporation being a person and a corporation being owned by people.

So if it's mandated that a corporation has to offer healthcare (hypothetically) and the guy running the corporation happens to be of the religious belief that no one should ever go to the doctor and they should just pray does he have the right to opt out of the mandate when other companies can't? That's my biggest issue with this. An individual that happens top own or operate a company shouldn't be able to opt out of mandates simply because it's against his personal religion belief.

pspstatus
03-10-2012, 03:25 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/07/buzzefeed-selectively-edits-obama-tape


I'm just curious, did you support Bush? Also who would you support in this presidential race?

*censored*
03-10-2012, 04:02 PM
Does it not seem to you like we are losing a little more freedom each an every day? It's just a little thing here or there, but those things will eventually add up.

Just out of curiosity, were you saying the same thing in 2001 when the blatant attack on freedoms known as the Patriot Act was passed by a Republican Congress and president?

AUTaxMan
03-10-2012, 05:31 PM
Yes

tutall
03-10-2012, 06:06 PM
I see a slight difference from a corporation being a person and a corporation being owned by people.

So if it's mandated that a corporation has to offer healthcare (hypothetically) and the guy running the corporation happens to be of the religious belief that no one should ever go to the doctor and they should just pray does he have the right to opt out of the mandate when other companies can't? That's my biggest issue with this. An individual that happens top own or operate a company shouldn't be able to opt out of mandates simply because it's against his personal religion belief.

Yes... that corp. should be allowed to opt out of it... If you dont like his policies you shouldnt work for that person... Sometimes I hate my job but I work there because they pay me decently and I have one of the best healthcare plans available... If either of those went away I wouldnt complain to anyone... I would simply look for a new job

tsjct
03-11-2012, 04:36 PM
I'm just curious, did you support Bush? Also who would you support in this presidential race?

I voted for bush yes. I am voting for Obama this election because i have been purchasing GOLD and SILVER for the last 3 years and as long as he is in office it will GO SKY HIGH. He is killing the Dollar so my investment should net me some HUGE profits.

Star_Cards
03-11-2012, 06:58 PM
Yes... that corp. should be allowed to opt out of it... If you dont like his policies you shouldnt work for that person... Sometimes I hate my job but I work there because they pay me decently and I have one of the best healthcare plans available... If either of those went away I wouldnt complain to anyone... I would simply look for a new job

I get that if an employee doesn't like a benefit, etc they should find another job. I agree with that completely, but if all businesses have to do something due to legislation, one business shouldn't be able to use religious belief to opt out of that legislation. If that was okay then any business would be able to opt out of things simply by claiming it went against it's owners belief. that is my biggest concern with this. The fact that it opens precedence for other businesses or corporations to possibly opt out of other legislation in the future. If religious belief is a way to do so then who can say that businesses could make whatever they want up to get them out of legislation that they don't want for whatever reason.

Star_Cards
03-11-2012, 07:02 PM
I voted for bush yes. I am voting for Obama this election because i have been purchasing GOLD and SILVER for the last 3 years and as long as he is in office it will GO SKY HIGH. He is killing the Dollar so my investment should net me some HUGE profits.

there are other issues that are and were killing the dollar well before Obama.

*censored*
03-11-2012, 07:09 PM
The dollar has been on a downward trajectory for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

http://mises.org/images/SeanMaloneRiseFallDollarLarge.jpg