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View Full Version : UNC students walk out on David Horowitz as he compares muslims to nazis



mrveggieman
03-20-2012, 11:10 AM
http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/2012/03/19/university-of-north-carolina-students-walk-out-on-david-horowitz-as-he-compares-muslims-to-nazis/

Wickabee
03-20-2012, 11:19 AM
“There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims,” he said. “But there were good Germans too, and in the end they didn’t make a damn difference.”

I'm offended as a descendant of those "good Germans".

duane1969
03-20-2012, 11:30 AM
He also compared Muslims to Nazis. “There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims,” he said. “But there were good Germans too, and in the end they didn’t make a damn difference.”


I am pretty decent at the English language and it looks to me like he compared Muslims to Germans...

And he is correct. There were Germans who opposed the Nazi actions but their opposition mattered none.

Wickabee
03-20-2012, 11:37 AM
I am pretty decent at the English language and it looks to me like he compared Muslims to Germans...

And he is correct. There were Germans who opposed the Nazi actions but their opposition mattered none.
It doesn't seem like that's his point though. Why make that comparison?

He's also comparing a nationality to a religion, which makes little-to-no sense. What he's basically saying here is that while there are good Muslims, they don't matter. In other words, don't let the "good" Muslims change your view of Muslims as a whole.

He's saying that Muslims are to be looked at as " bad", even though there are some good ones.
He's also saying the same thing about Germans (not Nazis).

duane1969
03-20-2012, 12:05 PM
It doesn't seem like that's his point though. Why make that comparison?

He's also comparing a nationality to a religion, which makes little-to-no sense. What he's basically saying here is that while there are good Muslims, they don't matter. In other words, don't let the "good" Muslims change your view of Muslims as a whole.

He's saying that Muslims are to be looked at as " bad", even though there are some good ones.
He's also saying the same thing about Germans (not Nazis).

I would say that he is comparing Muslim extremist to Nazis and Muslim moderates to non-Nazi Germans. And that isn't an extreme comparison. Nazis hated and killed Jews simply because they were Jewish, Muslim extremist hate and kill Jews simply because they are Jewish. Seems like a fair comparison.

He may be comparing a nationality to a religion, but it isn't like he is wrong for doing it when others are doing the same all the time. Give me a few minutes and I can find comments on this very board where people say that being anti-Muslim is racist. The same comments can be found coming from liberal media and politicians.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support the guy's nutty agenda, but he is not entirely wrong about everything because some of his things are off.

Star_Cards
03-20-2012, 12:08 PM
“There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims,” he said. “But there were good Germans too, and in the end they didn’t make a damn difference.”

I'm offended as a descendant of those "good Germans".

there is a difference between germans and nazis.

Star_Cards
03-20-2012, 12:14 PM
actually the article doesn't really say a whole lot. they need more than a few quotes in my opinion. however, I get tired of comparisons to nazis. most of them are unfounded.

Wickabee
03-20-2012, 12:17 PM
I would say that he is comparing Muslim extremist to Nazis and Muslim moderates to non-Nazi Germans. And that isn't an extreme comparison. Nazis hated and killed Jews simply because they were Jewish, Muslim extremist hate and kill Jews simply because they are Jewish. Seems like a fair comparison.

He may be comparing a nationality to a religion, but it isn't like he is wrong for doing it when others are doing the same all the time. Give me a few minutes and I can find comments on this very board where people say that being anti-Muslim is racist. The same comments can be found coming from liberal media and politicians.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support the guy's nutty agenda, but he is not entirely wrong about everything because some of his things are off.
Muslims and Jews don't get along historically, but neither do Muslims and Christians or Christians and Jews. The Muslim vs Israel thing is more about Palestine than anything. I'm also not saying what he said was incorrect, but it does point to a very sinister hidden agenda.
Also, just because others make stupid comparisons doesn't mean this one is any better. It means the others are just as bad.


there is a difference between germans and nazis.
You think? Maybe I should talk to my German grandfather who had to run from Nazis and ask him.

The offensive part as a German is:
“There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims,” he said. “But there were good Germans too, and in the end they didn’t make a damn difference.”

It could easily be said that no ONE group made a difference, but the collective that was the Allies did.

I also have to wonder again what his actual point was. On it's own this comment is just stupid. I refuse to believe his whole point is in this one line.
He is basically saying non-terrorist Muslims are useless. It's just one small step to "expendable" and from there, well...

Quite frankly, it sounds like something Hitler himself would have said about the Jews.

Star_Cards
03-20-2012, 12:33 PM
Muslims and Jews don't get along historically, but neither do Muslims and Christians or Christians and Jews. The Muslim vs Israel thing is more about Palestine than anything. I'm also not saying what he said was incorrect, but it does point to a very sinister hidden agenda.
Also, just because others make stupid comparisons doesn't mean this one is any better. It means the others are just as bad.


You think? Maybe I should talk to my German grandfather who had to run from Nazis and ask him.

The offensive part as a German is:
“There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims,” he said. “But there were good Germans too, and in the end they didn’t make a damn difference.”

It could easily be said that no ONE group made a difference, but the collective that was the Allies did.

I also have to wonder again what his actual point was. On it's own this comment is just stupid. I refuse to believe his whole point is in this one line.
He is basically saying non-terrorist Muslims are useless. It's just one small step to "expendable" and from there, well...

Quite frankly, it sounds like something Hitler himself would have said about the Jews.

I agree, his comparison is simply wrong in the fact that there are way more good muslims than bad. I don't know if there were more good germans than nazi germans, but either way the nazis obviously had the power. It's obvious considering what they were able to do. The muslims that want to do harm simply don't have the numbers or power or they would be on offense way more than they were.

I'm not sure it was his intent to say good german's from the WWII era or good muslims are expendable. I think his point was to say that the bad can overpower the good. It seems that was the case in WWII germany, but it's simply not the case as far as the religion of islam is concerned.

people just need to stop using hitler and nazi comparisons.

Wickabee
03-20-2012, 12:45 PM
But what is his reason for saying the bad can overpower the good? What could his end point possibly be if not that we should not trust a single Muslim for anything which therefor makes them useless and expendable?

As for (pre)WWII Germany, that was a case of 1 man being voted into power only to turn around and force his idiotic beliefs on an entire nation.
I wonder where that comparison is going...

AUTaxMan
03-20-2012, 12:47 PM
It's impossible to analyze that quotation without context. I hypothesize that he was probably suggesting that a lot of good German people disagreed with the direction of the country but remained silent as things got progressively worse. Once things reached a tipping point, it didn't matter that there were good Germans, because their inaction was forever overshadowed by the devious actions of the bad ones.

In much the same way, we hear very little from the "good" Muslims who actively decry the persecution of the Jews by the bad Muslims in the Middle East. At some point, if atrocities begin to occur on a mass level like they have in the past, the fact that there are good Muslims won't really matter, because when they had the power to prevent the atrocities from occurring, they chose to remain silent.

Again, that's just my theory of what was being said.

Wickabee
03-20-2012, 12:59 PM
It's impossible to analyze that quotation without context. I hypothesize that he was probably suggesting that a lot of good German people disagreed with the direction of the country but remained silent as things got progressively worse. Once things reached a tipping point, it didn't matter that there were good Germans, because their inaction was forever overshadowed by the devious actions of the bad ones.

In much the same way, we hear very little from the "good" Muslims who actively decry the persecution of the Jews by the bad Muslims in the Middle East. At some point, if atrocities begin to occur on a mass level like they have in the past, the fact that there are good Muslims won't really matter, because when they had the power to prevent the atrocities from occurring, they chose to remain silent.

Again, that's just my theory of what was being said.
Yes but you're talking about a ruling political party vs fragments of a worldwide religion. It falls apart right there.

You're right about context, but I still find it difficult to believe this was a benign comment. Don't forget, Hitler himself used tactics like this to slowly turn as many German people against Jews as possible.

ensbergcollector
03-20-2012, 03:03 PM
I agree, his comparison is simply wrong in the fact that there are way more good muslims than bad. I don't know if there were more good germans than nazi germans, but either way the nazis obviously had the power. It's obvious considering what they were able to do. The muslims that want to do harm simply don't have the numbers or power or they would be on offense way more than they were.

I'm not sure it was his intent to say good german's from the WWII era or good muslims are expendable. I think his point was to say that the bad can overpower the good. It seems that was the case in WWII germany, but it's simply not the case as far as the religion of islam is concerned.

people just need to stop using hitler and nazi comparisons.

i would be curious to see why you think this. Nearly every muslim run country holds to numerous extreme muslim views. Christians are openly prosecuted for not being muslim. We are told often that it is a small minority who support these ideas but something like 50 countries are openly hostile to non-muslims. I would tend to think that shows that the muslims who want to do harm have plenty of power.

mrveggieman
03-20-2012, 03:11 PM
i would be curious to see why you think this. Nearly every muslim run country holds to numerous extreme muslim views. Christians are openly prosecuted for not being muslim. We are told often that it is a small minority who support these ideas but something like 50 countries are openly hostile to non-muslims. I would tend to think that shows that the muslims who want to do harm have plenty of power.


So using that same logic you would also blame most Germans for the actions of hitler. Correct? Power corrupts regardless of race/religion/political party/etc so to suggest that most muslims/islam is ok with persecution non christians is not only proposterous it is also quite bigoted.

cavaliersfan30
03-20-2012, 03:14 PM
I wish I could have been there to hear him speak, he is correct in a lot of things he says....

ensbergcollector
03-20-2012, 03:21 PM
So using that same logic you would also blame most Germans for the actions of hitler. Correct? Power corrupts regardless of race/religion/political party/etc so to suggest that most muslims/islam is ok with persecution non christians is not only proposterous it is also quite bigoted.

no, that isn't what i said. i didn't even say i think most muslims are extremists and i dont think that. I said, i disagreed with the statement that the extremists don't have the numbers or power to do anything. It seems to me, even if those numbers are low, they have plenty of numbers and power.

mrveggieman
03-20-2012, 03:35 PM
no, that isn't what i said. i didn't even say i think most muslims are extremists and i dont think that. I said, i disagreed with the statement that the extremists don't have the numbers or power to do anything. It seems to me, even if those numbers are low, they have plenty of numbers and power.


Why can't they be called what they are, a bunch of corrupt men drunk off their own power who lie to their people and say that they are doing things in the name of their religion but couldn't care less about islam? You and I both know those men care about as much as islam as the do christanity or any other religion.

ensbergcollector
03-20-2012, 03:44 PM
Why can't they be called what they are, a bunch of corrupt men drunk off their own power who lie to their people and say that they are doing things in the name of their religion but couldn't care less about islam? You and I both know those men care about as much as islam as the do christanity or any other religion.

i agree with you. my issue was with the idea that the extremists don't have the numbers or power to spread their extremism.

shrewsbury
03-20-2012, 03:48 PM
So using that same logic you would also blame most Germans for the actions of hitler. Correct? Power corrupts regardless of race/religion/political party/etc so to suggest that most muslims/islam is ok with persecution non christians is not only proposterous it is also quite bigoted.


why not, you clump all republicans together into a racist, hate monger, rich, white, and religious group?

AUTaxMan
03-20-2012, 03:53 PM
Why can't they be called what they are, a bunch of corrupt men drunk off their own power who lie to their people and say that they are doing things in the name of their religion but couldn't care less about islam? You and I both know those men care about as much as islam as the do christanity or any other religion.

No, that's your opinion. We don't know what they care about. We only know what their actions are and their language is.

BGT Masters
03-20-2012, 03:55 PM
It's impossible to analyze that quotation without context. I hypothesize that he was probably suggesting that a lot of good German people disagreed with the direction of the country but remained silent as things got progressively worse. Once things reached a tipping point, it didn't matter that there were good Germans, because their inaction was forever overshadowed by the devious actions of the bad ones.

In much the same way, we hear very little from the "good" Muslims who actively decry the persecution of the Jews by the bad Muslims in the Middle East. At some point, if atrocities begin to occur on a mass level like they have in the past, the fact that there are good Muslims won't really matter, because when they had the power to prevent the atrocities from occurring, they chose to remain silent.

Again, that's just my theory of what was being said.

This is how I understand. Sort of reminds me of the saying. "To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men." One of my favorite quotes.

duane1969
03-20-2012, 05:30 PM
So using that same logic you would also blame most Germans for the actions of hitler. Correct? Power corrupts regardless of race/religion/political party/etc so to suggest that most muslims/islam is ok with persecution non christians is not only proposterous it is also quite bigoted.

That is not what he said.


Why can't they be called what they are, a bunch of corrupt men drunk off their own power who lie to their people and say that they are doing things in the name of their religion but couldn't care less about islam? You and I both know those men care about as much as islam as the do christanity or any other religion.

You should spend some time learning about the history of the Shia versus Sunni Muslims. One thing you will quickly learn is that the notion that all Muslims are generally good with just a small faction of extremist is a fallacy.