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mrveggieman
03-21-2012, 08:51 AM
I'm surprised that no one has bought this story up. For those of you who don't know Trayvon Martin was the Black teenager from Florida who was murdered in cold blood by some guy who claimed that he was doing a neighboorhood watch and it was self defense despite all of the evidence saying otherwise. There have so far been no arrests in the case and the FBI has taken over the investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17441277

steelers#1fan
03-21-2012, 08:59 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but he was Hispanic. Again, it's always the White mans fault!
Update at 11:45 a.m. ET. More On Zimmerman:
Robert Zimmerman, George Zimmerman's father, has said in a letter to the Sentinel that (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story) "George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever."

Now what!?



I'm surprised that no one has bought this story up. For those of you who don't know Trayvon Martin was the Black teenager from Florida who was murdered in cold blood by a white guy who claimed that he was doing a neighboorhood watch and it was self defense despite all of the evidence saying otherwise. There have so far been no arrests in the case and the FBI has taken over the investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17441277

Star_Cards
03-21-2012, 09:13 AM
to me race has nothing to do with it. it's odd that this guy would follow trayvon and then say he was acting in self defense. Even if he thought trayvon was acting suspicious shouldn't he have just called the authorities? Why did he feel it was his obligation to intervene if he thought he was up to no good? The details of the case seem to be under wraps for the moment since the case is ongoing so it's really had to have an opinion one way of the other. However, at this time it seems that the kid wasn't doing anything wrong.

and steelerfan, I don't think Veg was trying to say "it's all the white mans fault". Although the person was latino and not white from the photos I've seen.

steelers#1fan
03-21-2012, 09:29 AM
Ha Ha, maybe veg should do his homework then before he blames the white man. What do you think?
to me race has nothing to do with it. it's odd that this guy would follow trayvon and then say he was acting in self defense. Even if he thought trayvon was acting suspicious shouldn't he have just called the authorities? Why did he feel it was his obligation to intervene if he thought he was up to no good? The details of the case seem to be under wraps for the moment since the case is ongoing so it's really had to have an opinion one way of the other. However, at this time it seems that the kid wasn't doing anything wrong.

and steelerfan, I don't think Veg was trying to say "it's all the white mans fault". Although the person was latino and not white from the photos I've seen.

mrveggieman
03-21-2012, 09:32 AM
Ha Ha, maybe veg should do his homework then before he blames the white man. What do you think? [/b]


You are right I didn't see the photos but I don't know of too many latinos named Robert Zimmerman.:rolleyes:

duane1969
03-21-2012, 09:36 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but he was Hispanic. Again, it's always the White mans fault!
Update at 11:45 a.m. ET. More On Zimmerman:
Robert Zimmerman, George Zimmerman's father, has said in a letter to the Sentinel that (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story) "George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever."

Now what!?

That article raises some questions. It appears that Zimmerman confronted Martin but according to the witness Zimmerman was on his back during the altercation. A police report confirms that he had grass and dirt on his back. His claim of self-defense may be somewhat warranted.

And he clearly isn't white.
http://www2.insidenova.com/mgmedia/image/294/0/220201/george-zimmerman-cropped/

mrveggieman
03-21-2012, 09:38 AM
That article raises some questions. It appears that Zimmerman confronted Martin but according to the witness Zimmerman was on his back during the altercation. A police report confirms that he had grass and dirt on his back. His claim of self-defense may be somewhat warranted.

And he clearly isn't white.
http://www2.insidenova.com/mgmedia/image/294/0/220201/george-zimmerman-cropped/

I'm not sure what race he is. I will edit my OP.

duane1969
03-21-2012, 09:40 AM
You are right I didn't see the photos but I don't know of too many latinos named Robert Zimmerman.:rolleyes:

Robert = short for Roberto
Zimmerman = white father or step/adoptive father

veggie, it would appear that you racially profiled based on a name :fighting0056:

Star_Cards
03-21-2012, 09:43 AM
Ha Ha, maybe veg should do his homework then before he blames the white man. What do you think? [/B]

he didn't blame THE white man. He blamed A white man.

Star_Cards
03-21-2012, 09:45 AM
You are right I didn't see the photos but I don't know of too many latinos named Robert Zimmerman.:rolleyes:

by the name, I'd assume that it was a white man as well. With that and no picture I'd assume that he was white.

ensbergcollector
03-21-2012, 11:15 AM
by the name, I'd assume that it was a white man as well. With that and no picture I'd assume that he was white.

yes, but would you start a thread where you specifically said the shooter was white? no, you would probably write the thread with no mention of the shooters race.

Star_Cards
03-21-2012, 12:05 PM
yes, but would you start a thread where you specifically said the shooter was white? no, you would probably write the thread with no mention of the shooters race.

I wouldn't.

mrveggieman
03-21-2012, 12:09 PM
Yes I made an assumption and yes I am man enough to admit that I was wrong. In any event justice must be served in the Trayvon Martin case as well as the case of the child on the other thread who was set on fire. We cannot stand by in silence while these monsters go around hurting our children.

*censored*
03-21-2012, 12:23 PM
The guy made something like 50 calls to the police in the last 14 months and 28 calls to since the start of 2012 complaining about &quot;young Black male suspicious activity.&quot; <br />
<br />
Nope, no axe to grind...

shrewsbury
03-21-2012, 01:58 PM
how did he get dirt on his back? did the youngman turn with the cellphone as his hands dropped down, and it appeared to be a gun? why was he in a gated community, did both live their? and the cops were there in less than 4 minutes?

i would like to know the answer to those questions

the racial comments show the guy is an idiot, but even an idiot has the right to protect himself, if that was the case

DunkingDurant35
03-21-2012, 06:35 PM
I understand the outrage over this case. <br />
<br />
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html <br />
<br />
Zimmerman is claiming (lying) that he shot Trayvon in &quot;self-defense&quot;...

cbuskstwar
03-21-2012, 06:59 PM
Robert = short for Roberto
Zimmerman = white father or step/adoptive father

veggie, it would appear that you racially profiled based on a name :fighting0056:

Veggie, thats horrible :confused0024:

shrewsbury
03-21-2012, 07:10 PM
Zimmerman is claiming (lying) that he shot Trayvon in "self-defense" even when the transcript above clearly shows, in step by step fashion, that 1) Zimmerman spotted Trayvon, 2) Trayvon did nothing to him and was merely walking around, 3) Trayvon then ran *away from* Zimmerman, and 4) Zimmerman is the one who instigated the whole situation by needlessly chasing after him. Self-defense? *Trayvon* was the one acting in self-defense - Trayvon had no weapon to protect himself with, and this Zimmerman guy just chases after him out of the blue!

It's right in the transcript, as well as in the other facts of the case - as empirical and black and white as can be.


this says nothing of the fact. the kid seen him on th ephone with the police and ran off, why? why was he in a gated community he didn't live in? and the most important what happened after he got off the phone?

no black and white here

DunkingDurant35
03-21-2012, 08:19 PM
He ran off probably because he was scared for his life. The kid is a minor, and someone is calling the police on him and chasing after him for no reason - he was just walking around. It's been reported that he was unarmed and had no criminal record. Why did Zimmerman run after him, other than groundless paranoia? Even the dispatcher thought that was needless - did you actually read the transcript and follow it in linear fashion? If the kid had actually threatened him in any way, I could understand his actions, but the kid did nothing to him, and Zimmerman instigated the chase, shooting a kid who was unarmed.

How anyone justifies this is beyond me.

shrewsbury
03-21-2012, 08:58 PM
read it three times. where does it say he chased him? no where, how do you know the teen did not come back to zimmerman?

why would you a afraid of someone on the phone with the police?

he was 17, technically a minor but he's old enough to have common sense.

why didn't the teen call the police if a mad man with a gun was chasing him down?

the teen had his hand in his waisteband, common place to carry gun, the teen was in a gated community, the teen ran off.

not saying zimmerman is in the right, but from what i have seen, there is not much proof to back up anything.

DunkingDurant35
03-21-2012, 09:12 PM
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

A minor who has little experience in life is naturally going to be scared of a man he has never seen before calling the police on him. If someone is coming after you with a gun, you have NO TIME to make a phone call - this is the here and now we are talking about, and your life is on the line. It's flee and defend yourself, or nothing. And again, even according to Zimmerman himself, he was merely walking around - he had committed no crime. Zimmerman's paranoia caused him to freak out - he assumed the kid must have had something in the waistband, but he didn't. There is no "self-defense" - he went after a minor who had no weapon, and shot and killed him.

DunkingDurant35
03-21-2012, 09:18 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2p9YdV0Suk
ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Crump about the last moments of the teenager's life. Martin had been talking to his girlfriend all the way to the store where he bought Skittles and a tea. The phone was in his pocket and the earphone in his ear, Crump said. "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."
Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

shrewsbury
03-21-2012, 09:52 PM
[QUOTE]Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.[QUOTE]

why did you cut if off there? after this zimmerman said "ok" and then talked to the dispatcher, so zimmerman was not running after anyone.

my point is; what happened after the call to the dispatcher and the time the teen was shot?

i guess when the police release the phone records we may know more, but at this time we are all making assumptions.

how do you know the teen was not a thief who never been caught before? how do you know he was not there to break in a home? how do you know he did not come back and threaten zimmerman?

just like how do you know that zmmerman isn't a maniac racist who jumped in his truck chased the kid down and shot him in cold blood?

it would be unfair to assume anything with the information given so far

duane1969
03-21-2012, 11:51 PM
He ran off probably because he was scared for his life. The kid is a minor, and someone is calling the police on him and chasing after him for no reason - he was just walking around. It's been reported that he was unarmed and had no criminal record. Why did Zimmerman run after him, other than groundless paranoia? Even the dispatcher thought that was needless - did you actually read the transcript and follow it in linear fashion? If the kid had actually threatened him in any way, I could understand his actions, but the kid did nothing to him, and Zimmerman instigated the chase, shooting a kid who was unarmed.

How anyone justifies this is beyond me.

I don't think anyone is justifying it. It is easy to look at the facts after the shooting and condemn it. Hindsight is 20/20.

What about the facts before the shooting?

- Martin was walking around after dark in a gated community that he does not live in that has problems with crime and break-ins.
- When he thought he was being followed he pulled up his hood (Why? to hide his identity?)
- When he realized he was definitely being followed he ran (Why run if he is doing nothing wrong?)
- When confronted by the community watch person (who has a right to ask what he is doing there) he becomes defensive and confrontational.

So let's summarize. In a community with a crime problem he is walking around after dark, pulling up his hood when followed, running away to try and avoid being followed and becomes confrontational when asked what he is doing there. And the community watch guy was supposed to assume he was just out buying candy? Come on...

theonedru
03-22-2012, 04:49 AM
I don't think anyone is justifying it. It is easy to look at the facts after the shooting and condemn it. Hindsight is 20/20.

What about the facts before the shooting?

- Martin was walking around after dark in a gated community that he does not live in that has problems with crime and break-ins.
- When he thought he was being followed he pulled up his hood (Why? to hide his identity?)
- When he realized he was definitely being followed he ran (Why run if he is doing nothing wrong?)
- When confronted by the community watch person (who has a right to ask what he is doing there) he becomes defensive and confrontational.

So let's summarize. In a community with a crime problem he is walking around after dark, pulling up his hood when followed, running away to try and avoid being followed and becomes confrontational when asked what he is doing there. And the community watch guy was supposed to assume he was just out buying candy? Come on...

None of that justifies shooting someone, let alone killing them..........

habsheaven
03-22-2012, 08:10 AM
I guess the moral of the story is Trayvon should have been packing so that he had a decent chance at defending himself.

shrewsbury
03-22-2012, 08:59 AM
[QUOTE]I guess the moral of the story is Trayvon should have been packing so that he had a decent chance at defending himself.[QUOTE]

yes, if he was innocent

Star_Cards
03-22-2012, 09:15 AM
read it three times. where does it say he chased him? no where, how do you know the teen did not come back to zimmerman?

why would you a afraid of someone on the phone with the police?

he was 17, technically a minor but he's old enough to have common sense.

why didn't the teen call the police if a madman with a gun was chasing him down?

the teen had his hand in his waisteband, common place to carry gun, the teen was in a gated community, the teen ran off.

not saying zimmerman is in the right, but from what i have seen, there is not much proof to back up anything.

He said he was following him and that he ran away. If he can into contact with him he either chased after him or trayvon came back around. They should be able to prove which happened by where trayvon was found.

how do you know that trayvon knew who he called and if he was even on the phone at all. dark assume it was dark and rain could have kept him from hearing.

maybe he didn't have a phone?

I get that zimmerman would be suspicious of a person walking around in the rain, but once the police was called it seems odd that he'd pursue him to where he'd come into contact with him. that's said assuming that trayvon didn't come back to him after he ran away. I do get a sense of vigilantism on the part of zimmerman from that 911 call.

mrveggieman
03-22-2012, 09:43 AM
Sounds like another case of WWB. Walking While Black. SMH.

duane1969
03-22-2012, 10:32 AM
Sounds like another case of WWB. Walking While Black. SMH.

Yeah because if it had been a white, asian or latino guy, in a gated community that he was not from, in an area where there has been crime issues, walking around after dark, covering his head with a hood when he realized that he was being followed and then runing to try and get away from being followed. nobody would have thought anytnhing about it. :rolleyes:

SMH at the silly notion that everything that happens to a black person is racially motivated.

mrveggieman
03-22-2012, 10:36 AM
Yeah because if it had been a white, asian or latino guy, in a gated community that he was not from, in an area where there has been crime issues, walking around after dark, covering his head with a hood when he realized that he was being followed and then runing to try and get away from being followed. nobody would have thought anytnhing about it. :rolleyes:

SMH at the silly notion that everything that happens to a black person is racially motivated.


Not everything but if some guy who is not black shots and kills a black child while making racial insults at him an educated person who be inclined to think that race may have played a part.

shrewsbury
03-22-2012, 11:37 AM
where were the racial insults? the dispatcher log does not have any and that is the only positive proof of anything right now

mrveggieman
03-22-2012, 11:55 AM
where were the racial insults? the dispatcher log does not have any and that is the only positive proof of anything right now


It has been well doccumented that Zimmerman called this child all sorts of names that I am not going to repeat on SCF. Feel free to google.

shrewsbury
03-22-2012, 01:17 PM
documented by whom? there is speculation, but if that is what we are to believe, then the world will end this year by bigfoot and the aliens who work for nesse, champ, and the chupucabre.

the only piece of evidence is the record of the 911 call, and there is not a racial slur on the transcript, but maybe if they play it backwards real slow, they can here them.

the fact is maybe he is a racist murderer, but you are ready to start casting stones without any real knowledge of it.

mrveggieman
03-22-2012, 01:43 PM
documented by whom? there is speculation, but if that is what we are to believe, then the world will end this year by bigfoot and the aliens who work for nesse, champ, and the chupucabre.

the only piece of evidence is the record of the 911 call, and there is not a racial slur on the transcript, but maybe if they play it backwards real slow, they can here them.

the fact is maybe he is a racist murderer, but you are ready to start casting stones without any real knowledge of it.


Let me guessed you haven't googled it yet have you? :rolleyes:

shrewsbury
03-22-2012, 04:18 PM
i did, but google does not have any factual evidence besides the dispatch log. <br />
<br />
the interview with his dad? but we won't believe that because if he's a racist his dad must be? <br />
<br />
the youtube clip...

mrveggieman
03-22-2012, 04:23 PM
As my man Afrank45 said we should stop using the murder of 1 child and the maming of another for our own political arguments and enjoyment. I'm going to let this child rest in peace and give the FBI a fair chance to do their job. You can join me here.

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?p=11268864#post11268864

Wickabee
03-22-2012, 04:27 PM
Not everything but if some guy who is not black shots and kills a black child while making racial insults at him an educated person who be inclined to think that race may have played a part.
I'm going to paraphrase Chris Rock here:
"When you're really angry, you should be able to say anything that comes to mind without worrying about hurting the other person's feelings. For example, if you rear-end me and when I get out of my car you've only got one leg, I'm going to talk about the leg."

Now would that make him a bigot against amputees? No. He's angry and shouted the first thing that came to mind.

In this case, were they racist remarks? Absolutely. Does shouting that at the moment mean it was racially motivated? Not necessarily, though I will admit it's very easy to come to that conclusion and wouldn't surprise me to find out that it was.

Personally I find the idea of "hate crimes" kind of stupid. It's a nice idea, but it's at the point where it doesn't matter the actual motivation, just that the victim is black or gay or whatever. Before you mug someone you'd better make sure they're the same race, religion and sexual orientation as you or else it's a "hate" crime.

shrewsbury
03-22-2012, 04:51 PM
he is resting in peace, us discussing it has no relevence to someone who is dead, in fact we are honoring his life by talking about him after he is gone. no one has blamed him, but i have said lets not blame ANYONE until we know the facts, which no one has as of yet.

and i still cannot find any racial slurs, someone please enlighten me. i don't want assumptions, or personal opinions but real facts.

the release of the cellphone records should clarify this

jlzinck
03-23-2012, 12:05 PM
Another nitwit who jumped to conclusions as to the race of the shooter. <br />
<br />
Bottom line is this twit is a wanna be cop. He took everything a little too seriously and if he was concerned he should...

Star_Cards
03-23-2012, 02:25 PM
I like and agree with your stance on waiting for more details to come out. I agree that it should have been much better investigated. National outrage or exposure should not be a cause for law...

INTIMADATOR2007
03-25-2012, 01:19 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370

The new Black Panther Party offered a bounty of $10,000 Saturday for the “capture” of a Florida neighborhood watch captain who killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin.

“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,” leader Mikhail Muhammad said after announcing the reward for George Zimmerman at a protest in Sanford, Fla.

Muhammad called on 5,000 black men to mobilize and capture the neighborhood watch volunteer.

“If the government won’t do the job, we’ll do it,” Muhammad said, leading chants that included “freedom or death” and “justice for Trayvon.”

Muhammad said New Black Panther’s chairman, Malik Zulu Shabaz of Washington, was taking donations from black entertainers and athletes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After posting wanted dead or alive posters and offering rewards for captures , I think the Justice dept. should put a stop to the Black Panthers , Oh' wait , the justice dept. is connected to the Black Panthers. Guess that wont happen .

shrewsbury
03-25-2012, 01:25 PM
wow!! and this is not illegal? publicly offering a bounty to kidnap an american citizen?

some interesting turns to this one.

the screaming on the 2 911 calls are said to be zimmerman and a police witness says it was in self defense.

on one of the local radio stations they played the story as if zimmerman said a few racial names on the 911 calls, and even bleeped out areas to make it sound like he did. i heard the same call and did not hear any of this.

still on the fence, need alot more info to justify a killing of anyone much less a teen.

Star_Cards
03-25-2012, 05:17 PM
I definitely don't like the bounty release. It's irresponsible and dangerous.

*censored*
03-25-2012, 11:35 PM
Oh' wait , the justice dept. is connected to the Black Panthers.

Haha, okay. Care to explain this little gem?

AUTaxMan
03-25-2012, 11:48 PM
Haha, okay. Care to explain this little gem?

Probably referring to the reprieve Holder granted the Black Panthers for voter intimidation in 2008.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 08:15 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370

The new Black Panther Party offered a bounty of $10,000 Saturday for the “capture” of a Florida neighborhood watch captain who killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin.

“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,” leader Mikhail Muhammad said after announcing the reward for George Zimmerman at a protest in Sanford, Fla.

Muhammad called on 5,000 black men to mobilize and capture the neighborhood watch volunteer.

“If the government won’t do the job, we’ll do it,” Muhammad said, leading chants that included “freedom or death” and “justice for Trayvon.”

Muhammad said New Black Panther’s chairman, Malik Zulu Shabaz of Washington, was taking donations from black entertainers and athletes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After posting wanted dead or alive posters and offering rewards for captures , I think the Justice dept. should put a stop to the Black Panthers , Oh' wait , the justice dept. is connected to the Black Panthers. Guess that wont happen .


So Intimidator what do you suggest that we do? Let people go around killing our kids at will? That kind of been your son or your little brother. That could have even been you.

Star_Cards
03-26-2012, 09:17 AM
So Intimidator what do you suggest that we do? Let people go around killing our kids at will? That kind of been your son or your little brother. That could have even been you.

Well it seems that as the story got more media attention, much due to protests and such, that authorities are looking into the case. I feel that that sort of thing is was more effective than putting out a bounty. All a bounty is going to do is create similar situations to the one they are protesting against... private citizens playing vigilante. I get the outrage and the need for further investigation, but publicly calling for a man's head by placing a cash reward on him is pretty similar to hiring a hitman. It's not exactly like that, but close and should be illegal in my opinion.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 09:22 AM
Well it seems that as the story got more media attention, much due to protests and such, that authorities are looking into the case. I feel that that sort of thing is was more effective than putting out a bounty. All a bounty is going to do is create similar situations to the one they are protesting against... private citizens playing vigilante. I get the outrage and the need for further investigation, but publicly calling for a man's head by placing a cash reward on him is pretty similar to hiring a hitman. It's not exactly like that, but close and should be illegal in my opinion.

Yes putting out a bounty may be extreme but it seems like he is mad that we are doing anything at all and thinks that we should just sit back and deal with it. This is an innocent child that was murdered in cold blood by a monster and we should all be outraged.

habsheaven
03-26-2012, 09:43 AM
Outraged or not. You cannot issue a bounty on someone's head in a civilized country. I would be interested in seeing/knowing all the details surrounding this bounty. If it occurred as...

ensbergcollector
03-26-2012, 10:20 AM
why are the black panthers making it a race issue? If this is just about "one of our children being murdered" and race has nothing to do with it, then why are the black panthers only asking for black men to help them in their bounty collecting? Seems to me, that like always, certain groups are playing up race to promote themselves and aren't actually concerned with justice.

tndcollectables
03-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Let me guessed you haven't googled it yet have you? :rolleyes:


Yes here it is:

WFTV had an audio expert listen to the call, who said the word was "punks," according to the report.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 10:47 AM
why are the black panthers making it a race issue? If this is just about "one of our children being murdered" and race has nothing to do with it, then why are the black panthers only asking for black men to help them in their bounty collecting? Seems to me, that like always, certain groups are playing up race to promote themselves and aren't actually concerned with justice.


Because they know people like you do not like the black panthers or any other group that is dedicated to assisting black people for that matter.

tndcollectables
03-26-2012, 10:50 AM
The issue that should be brought up is that we are all Americans. If the government woould would stop with the "whatever nationality"-American is would do wonders for ALL race issues.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 10:52 AM
The issue that should be brought up is that we are all Americans. If the government woould would stop with the "whatever nationality"-American is would do wonders for ALL race issues.


I agree with you but that's too much like right.

tndcollectables
03-26-2012, 11:01 AM
I agree with you but that's too much like right.




I know and we can't have that can we?

ensbergcollector
03-26-2012, 11:03 AM
Because they know people like you do not like the black panthers or any other group that is dedicated to assisting black people for that matter.

Did you really just say "people like me" do not like any group dedicated to assisting black people?? Really? Oh wait, nevermind, you were just attacking me in order to defend the racist illegal acts of the black panthers. Gotcha

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 11:05 AM
Did you really just say "people like me" do not like any group dedicated to assisting black people?? Really? Oh wait, nevermind, you were just attacking me in order to defend the racist illegal acts of the black panthers. Gotcha


So defending black people from racism is racist and illegal? :rolleyes: Funny I never heard anyone of ya'll complaining about the klan's racist and illegal activities.

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 11:06 AM
Because they know people like you do not like the black panthers or any other group that is dedicated to assisting black people for that matter.
__________________

what type is that?

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 11:10 AM
what type is that?


Typicall white conservative christian voting republicans have a problem with the black panthers, naacp, united negro college fund, or even historically black colleges. Any organization that is dediacted to assisting black people. First thing ya'll say is where is the help for white people? I say look around. If you can't find it you don't deserve to get any help or are not being truthful.

ensbergcollector
03-26-2012, 11:13 AM
So defending black people from racism is racist and illegal? :rolleyes: Funny I never heard anyone of ya'll complaining about the klan's racist and illegal activities.

wait, the black panthers issuing an illegal bounty and saying they only want the help of black people is not racist and illegal?

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 11:15 AM
wait, the black panthers issuing an illegal bounty and saying they only want the help of black people is not racist and illegal?

It's not that they don't want to help anyone else but they have to take care of home first before they can help everyone else. You should do some objective and unbiased research on the black panthers insteading of basing your views on them from what you hear from the conservative media.

Star_Cards
03-26-2012, 11:16 AM
if that's what they think then they are sorely mistaken. There are plenty of people that are not of one particular and still care about what happens to people of other races. <br />
<br />
To call for a bounty...

ensbergcollector
03-26-2012, 11:18 AM
It's not that they don't want to help anyone else but they have to take care of home first before they can help everyone else. You should do some objective and unbiased research on the black panthers insteading of basing your views on them from what you hear from the conservative media.

is the information here about the bounty they placed accurate? I haven't made any type of wide sweeping statement about the black panthers. I have only commented about this one instance.
you, out of some obligation to defend the black panthers because they support black people, felt the need to make extremely prejudice comments about me and what i believe. You very openly called me a racist for daring to oppose the black panthers placing a bounty on someone. Now, please explain to me how that makes me a racist?

tndcollectables
03-26-2012, 11:19 AM
It's not that they don't want to help anyone else but they have to take care of home first before they can help everyone else. You should do some objective and unbiased research on the black panthers insteading of basing your views on them from what you hear from the conservative media.



Sorry Sir but home is Americans in general. It has to start somewhere with the Black Panthers doing what they did it just adds fuel to the fire. Think about it.

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 11:23 AM
so blacks need to take care of blacks first? is this not the issue we are having with whitey taking care of whitey first?

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 11:27 AM
so back to the facts of the case;

now we have evidence there was no racial names said on the 911 call

police witness said teen was attacking zimmerman who was screaming for help and begging for his life

2-911 calls contain the screaming before the gunshots, the screaming was zimmerman begging the teen to stop, begging for his life, and pleading for someone to call 911.

habsheaven
03-26-2012, 11:30 AM
so back to the facts of the case;

now we have evidence there was no racial names said on the 911 call

police witness said teen was attacking zimmerman who was screaming for help and begging for his life

2-911 calls contain the screaming before the gunshots, the screaming was zimmerman begging the teen to stop, begging for his life, and pleading for someone to call 911.

Where are you getting these facts from? Post a link please.

Wickabee
03-26-2012, 11:56 AM
Because they know people like you do not like the black panthers or any other group that is dedicated to assisting black people for that matter.
We've had some good discussion, but I think you ran out of line here. And again here:

So defending black people from racism is racist and illegal? :rolleyes: Funny I never heard anyone of ya'll complaining about the klan's racist and illegal activities.
I would assume "anyone one of y'all" means all us white folk. I would appreciate it in the future if you didn't call me a sympathizer of a racist group such as the klan.

And yes, I do see the Panthers' actions as completely racist and ignorant. If they were about equality they wouldn't say something like "blacks only". No, they're just another group trying to put their own on top. Just like the Klan.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 11:59 AM
is the information here about the bounty they placed accurate? I haven't made any type of wide sweeping statement about the black panthers. I have only commented about this one instance.
you, out of some obligation to defend the black panthers because they support black people, felt the need to make extremely prejudice comments about me and what i believe. You very openly called me a racist for daring to oppose the black panthers placing a bounty on someone. Now, please explain to me how that makes me a racist?


I didn't say you were racist I just questioned some the motives and agendas of people like you. I don't know you on a personal level I only know of you by what you post on this website. I have done a lot of reasearch on the black panthers and despite their negative press then do a lot of good for our communities. First thing that you may not know is that this current group of panthers is not the original black panthers they are only using their ideologies but are not directly linked to the black panthers of the 1960s. If you truley are interested in learning for yourfself abouth the panthers i challenge you to do your own research. And not base your opinion of what you hear through the grapevine.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 12:01 PM
so blacks need to take care of blacks first? is this not the issue we are having with whitey taking care of whitey first?


What country have you been living in?

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 12:02 PM
We've had some good discussion, but I think you ran out of line here. And again here:

I would assume "anyone one of y'all" means all us white folk. I would appreciate it in the future if you didn't call me a sympathizer of a racist group such as the klan.

And yes, I do see the Panthers' actions as completely racist and ignorant. If they were about equality they wouldn't say something like "blacks only". No, they're just another group trying to put their own on top. Just like the Klan.

No not you just the more right wing conservative bible thumping ones that a lot of white people dont like either if you know what I mean. :winking0071:

Rockman
03-26-2012, 12:33 PM
It makes me sad that a story like this is ending up falling down partisan lines... And the Black Panthers are absolutely stupid for calling for a bounty, this isn't the wild west, how could anyone think they would be "helping" by doing something like that.

ensbergcollector
03-26-2012, 12:39 PM
I didn't say you were racist I just questioned some the motives and agendas of people like you. I don't know you on a personal level I only know of you by what you post on this website. I have done a lot of reasearch on the black panthers and despite their negative press then do a lot of good for our communities. First thing that you may not know is that this current group of panthers is not the original black panthers they are only using their ideologies but are not directly linked to the black panthers of the 1960s. If you truley are interested in learning for yourfself abouth the panthers i challenge you to do your own research. And not base your opinion of what you hear through the grapevine.

i have not made a single assumption. i am commenting on this one instance. i think you have crossed the line with all of your "people like you" comments. If the klu klux klan was putting a bounty out on a black mans head, no one here would defend it. Yet you are so caught up in race, that you find yourself defending the black panthers and attacking anyone else by claiming racism.
Again I ask, is the report about the bounty accurate? if so, how in the world can you defend that and attack me and my character. All the non-whites at my church would get a big laugh at what you are attempting to accuse me of.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 12:50 PM
i have not made a single assumption. i am commenting on this one instance. i think you have crossed the line with all of your "people like you" comments. If the klu klux klan was putting a bounty out on a black mans head, no one here would defend it. Yet you are so caught up in race, that you find yourself defending the black panthers and attacking anyone else by claiming racism.
Again I ask, is the report about the bounty accurate? if so, how in the world can you defend that and attack me and my character. All the non-whites at my church would get a big laugh at what you are attempting to accuse me of.


I don't know if the bounty report is accurate or not. I only saw the same info on here that you saw unless you know more about the bounty than I do. No attack at all on your character.

Wickabee
03-26-2012, 12:52 PM
In other news I saw a story on the news last night that showed Geraldo of all people blaming the hoodie.
Not the guy who fired the shot. Not even the kid wearing the hoodie, but the hoodie itself.

I knew he was stupid, I just didn't realize his problem was that bad.

tndcollectables
03-26-2012, 12:53 PM
Where are you getting these facts from? Post a link please.



here is one:

http://thewesternexperience.com/2012/03/24/the-trayvon-martin-narrative-changes-suddenly-witnesses-say-martin-beat-up-zimmerman-before-being-shot/

tndcollectables
03-26-2012, 12:55 PM
Where are you getting these facts from? Post a link please.


another:

http://thewesternexperience.com/2012/03/24/the-trayvon-martin-narrative-changes-suddenly-witnesses-say-martin-beat-up-zimmerman-before-being-shot/

tndcollectables
03-26-2012, 12:56 PM
President Obama, Reverend Al, and Jesse need to start saying they are sorry for jumping before getting ALL THE FACTS!

Rockman
03-26-2012, 01:02 PM
Let's go with this for a second and say Trayvon did attack him. 1) it was probably self defense in its own right. 2) You're not going to be able to convince me that an aspiring police officer was having so much trouble defending himself against a 150 pound unarmed kid that he felt shooting him was his only defense. Give me a freaking break, he had him outweighed by close to 100 pounds.

Zimmerman was looking for trouble and he got himself into some.

Wickabee
03-26-2012, 01:03 PM
Zimmerman was likely after his candy.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 01:04 PM
In other news I saw a story on the news last night that showed Geraldo of all people blaming the hoodie.
Not the guy who fired the shot. Not even the kid wearing the hoodie, but the hoodie itself.

I knew he was stupid, I just didn't realize his problem was that bad.


Watching Geraldo makes me want to :smash:.

habsheaven
03-26-2012, 01:59 PM
another:

http://thewesternexperience.com/2012/03/24/the-trayvon-martin-narrative-changes-suddenly-witnesses-say-martin-beat-up-zimmerman-before-being-shot/


Thanks for the links, they are actually the same though. I guess we will have to wait and see the details of this witness's testimony. If his testimony was on the record at the time of the incident why was it not considered by the people re-opening the investigation? Makes no sense. Sounds more like this guy came forward recently. Also, I cannot imagine Zimmerman was "begging for his life" all the while he was armed. Doesn't sound plausible to me.

Star_Cards
03-26-2012, 01:59 PM
Let's go with this for a second and say Trayvon did attack him. 1) it was probably self defense in its own right. 2) You're not going to be able to convince me that an aspiring police officer was having so much trouble defending himself against a 150 pound unarmed kid that he felt shooting him was his only defense. Give me a freaking break, he had him outweighed by close to 100 pounds.

Zimmerman was looking for trouble and he got himself into some.

Just because someone outweighs another person doesn't mean it's a given that the smaller guy can't take down the bigger guy. All I've seen is the one photo of zimmerman's head shot and he looks to be overweight and out of shape. I read where in the 911 call he made that he was out of breathe when following trayvon. It could be from him being nervous, but weight really isnt the major factor when deciding who can win a fight. Trayvon looked like he was in pretty good shape so you never know what happened. It's reported that zimmerman had a broken nose so trayvon likely got in some good shots at some point

We don't know how this case went down at this point, but say trayvon got fed up with zimmerman and turned to attack him. It could be possible that zimmerman did fear for his life. I haven't heard what happened so I'm keeping myself open to many different possibilities.

Monsterx
03-26-2012, 02:18 PM
Anyone send in for their t-shirt yet?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832

AUTaxMan
03-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Anyone send in for their t-shirt yet?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832

That guy looks like a real mensa.

mrveggieman
03-26-2012, 02:24 PM
Anyone send in for their t-shirt yet?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832


I remember back around 1994 or 1995 I saw I guy wearing a t-shirt with OJ's picture on it saying take it from me leave them white "females" alone. Now I wouldn't agree with that shirt because you should be able to date whoever you like regardless of race but as far as the zimmerman shirt I would wear something like that just replace the racist term with someother type of insult. Just use your imagination.

lloydr04
03-26-2012, 02:29 PM
That guy looks like a real mensa.

Looks just as dumb as anyone riding around with one of these

http://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/dont_re_nig-300x225.jpg

duane1969
03-26-2012, 02:36 PM
I have been super busy over the weekend and didn't follow any news so I am unsure of how this has gone. I was thinking about it some tho and a question came to me...

Supposedly Martin had been at a friends house and walked to the store to get candy. Where is the friend? Has the friend that he was supposedly visiting come forward to confirm this story? I know the girlfriend said that Martin was at a friend's house but has the friend actually come forward?

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 02:53 PM
We don't know how this case went down at this point, but say trayvon got fed up with zimmerman and turned to attack him. It could be possible that zimmerman did fear for his life. I haven't heard what happened so I'm keeping myself open to many different possibilities.

you are a wise man

angel0430
03-26-2012, 03:26 PM
Now there are reports of martin being suspended from school for having an empty bag of weed....so I guess he was not as good as they say he was. Also, there is a witness saying that he saw Zimemrman on the floor ggetiing punched by Martin.

AUTaxMan
03-26-2012, 03:27 PM
Looks just as dumb as anyone riding around with one of these

http://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/dont_re_nig-300x225.jpg

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I agree.

Wickabee
03-26-2012, 04:55 PM
We don't know how this case went down at this point, but say trayvon got fed up with zimmerman and turned to attack him. It could be possible that zimmerman did fear for his life. I haven't heard what happened so I'm keeping myself open to many different possibilities.
True, although I have to think that someone who calls 911 that often would probably fear for his life if a housecat ran across the road.

mikesilvia
03-26-2012, 08:56 PM
Ah the sheeple are so easily fooled. Turns Trayvon Martin was beating Zimmerman when he was shot.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

theonedru
03-26-2012, 08:58 PM
Ah the sheeple are so easily fooled. Turns Trayvon Martin was beating Zimmerman when he was shot.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Beating Zimmerman or defending himself against him, big difference esp when Zimmerman was the one with the gun.

Wickabee
03-26-2012, 09:06 PM
sheeple
Just as an aside, can we please refrain from using "clever" terminology like "sheeple"

The second I see that, I stop caring what the person has to say. There's many ways to get your point across using big people words.

Carry on.

Edit: and I look at the source of the story and move right along.

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 09:19 PM
some one having a gun doesn't mean much, plenty of armed people die. this is one of the biggest issues i have with concealed carry it can give a false sense of security.

since we have had so many scenarios on here, this could be one.

a street fighting teen returns to retaliate on an overweight near middle aged man. not only does he knocked the man down but continues to beat him in a rage of fury. the man begs the teen to stop, screams for help, only to continue to receive the stomping, the man pulls out his gun and tells him to stop, the teen does not, and is shot.

what if that was your wife, daughter, dad, or grandpa?

i don't know if this is what happened, but i also don't know a racist shot an innocemnt teen in cold blood.

Wickabee
03-26-2012, 09:25 PM
If we're speculating, how about this:

The kid goes to the store for some munchies and, on his way back, notices a man following him. Let's say he's tired of people following because he's black or in a hoodie (I'm white and used to get sick of people following me figuring I was up to no good) so he goes to confront the man. The man, being a paranoid person (as evidenced by constantly phoning 911) immediately think "This [racial slur] is going to kill me" the two come together in confrontation and the kid gets shot and dies.

or...

The man followed the kid and confronted him himself. The kid told him to get lost and the guy grabbed him. The kid, fully within his rights, got physical with the man who accosted him, a struggle ensued and the kid got shot and died.

There's a lot of possibilities but at the end of the day a kid who didn't have to die did, and a man who needs serious help with his paranoia is right now a free man.

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 09:29 PM
i agree with the speculations and even more things are possible, i have no quarrel with that.


and a man who needs serious help with his paranoia is right now a free man.

but if what you think happened, did not happen, then his paranoia may have saved his life and the life of others

pspstatus
03-26-2012, 09:33 PM
Ah the sheeple are so easily fooled. Turns Trayvon Martin was beating Zimmerman when he was shot.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012


You must have missed the part of that story where it says Zimmerman was following Martin and that the 911 operator told him not to. I don't know if that's actually what happened but don't just assume that because Zimmerman was losing the fight that he didn't in fact start it. I wouldn't be cool with someone following me like that.

gladdyontherise
03-26-2012, 09:35 PM
I agree people need to wait for all the facts to come out, but just on an assumption. Look at the size of Zimmerman and the size of Martin. Are we really suppose to believe this kid (who looked like he could pass for being 12-14 years old) was "beating" on Zimmerman and holding him down etc?

Sorry, I can't buy that..

Why was Zimmerman chasing him down? I'd love to know this..There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're running after someone who you feel you need to defend yourself from.

AUTaxMan
03-26-2012, 09:39 PM
I agree people need to wait for all the facts to come out, but just on an assumption. Look at the size of Zimmerman and the size of Martin. Are we really suppose to believe this kid (who looked like he could pass for being 12-14 years old) was "beating" on Zimmerman and holding him down etc?

Sorry, I can't buy that..

Why was Zimmerman chasing him down? I'd love to know this..There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're running after someone who you feel you need to defend yourself from.

Not buying it either. I guess a jury will decide what happened.

pspstatus
03-26-2012, 09:42 PM
Now there are reports of martin being suspended from school for having an empty bag of weed....

This is relevant why?

gladdyontherise
03-26-2012, 09:44 PM
Not buying it either. I guess a jury will decide what happened.

If it gets to that point. The Police are trying their hardest to do nothing...

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 10:01 PM
I agree people need to wait for all the facts to come out

that's all i am saying.
and if it comes out he unlawfully murdered someone, i will be the first to say he deserves nothing less than death.

ensbergcollector
03-26-2012, 10:01 PM
i love all the people who are telling others to not make assumptions while as of now, this entire story, and everyone on both sides are making assumptions.

the assumptions people are making tell a ton about the posters in this forum.

gladdyontherise
03-26-2012, 10:08 PM
i love all the people who are telling others to not make assumptions while as of now, this entire story, and everyone on both sides are making assumptions.

the assumptions people are making tell a ton about the posters in this forum.

Everyone has made an assumption. Is it not OK to want to wait for the facts but have an assumption of what happened until then?

It's rather obvious to tell who is in favor of who though, for the most part..

ensbergcollector
03-26-2012, 10:10 PM
Everyone has made an assumption. Is it not OK to want to wait for the facts but have an assumption of what happened until then?

It's rather obvious to tell who is in favor of who though, for the most part..

agree completely. people are allowed to make assumptions. I just get a laugh when the same people who are making large assumptions, lash out at others for making assumptions.

gladdyontherise
03-26-2012, 10:12 PM
agree completely. people are allowed to make assumptions. I just get a laugh when the same people who are making large assumptions, lash out at others for making assumptions.

Agree, I think it gets bad when people try to say their assumption is an actual fact.

tutall
03-26-2012, 11:19 PM
Everyone has made an assumption. Is it not OK to want to wait for the facts but have an assumption of what happened until then?

It's rather obvious to tell who is in favor of who though, for the most part..

I think in this case it is wrong to make assumptions as anyone who has a pre-determined mind set tends to only look at opinions that favor theirs. I for one would not like to be tried in a courtroom where the jurors have their minds made up before we go in.

Also if you think the kid looked like a 12 year old you have not seen his newer pics... The ones that ran 24/7 on the news was not a recent picture at all. Not saying anyone was right or wrong but there is a ton of misleading information on both sides of this one andsadly we will probably never know the whole truth.

bosoulja82
03-27-2012, 12:28 AM
I dont know what the charge should be or will be but according to the fact Zimmerman was following Trayvon. So if Trayvon beat him up that was in self defense because Zimmerman should not have been...

mikesilvia
03-27-2012, 12:44 AM
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Wickabee
03-27-2012, 01:15 AM
i agree with the speculations and even more things are possible, i have no quarrel with that.



but if what you think happened, did not happen, then his paranoia may have saved his life and the life of others
The man called 911 how many times between Januray 1 and this incident in February?
Yeah, he's paranoid and needs help, even if he hadn't shot Trayvon.

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 01:21 AM
Here's a pretty good summary of what we know:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

gladdyontherise
03-27-2012, 07:27 AM
I think in this case it is wrong to make assumptions as anyone who has a pre-determined mind set tends to only look at opinions that favor theirs. I for one would not like to be tried in a courtroom where the jurors have their minds made up before we go in.

Also if you think the kid looked like a 12 year old you have not seen his newer pics... The ones that ran 24/7 on the news was not a recent picture at all. Not saying anyone was right or wrong but there is a ton of misleading information on both sides of this one andsadly we will probably never know the whole truth.

You're right, I must've not seen a recent picture then.

I'm not 'set in my ways' so to speak, but just based on the information given that's all we can do to try and determine what happened.

Star_Cards
03-27-2012, 09:11 AM
You must have missed the part of that story where it says Zimmerman was following Martin and that the 911 operator told him not to. I don't know if that's actually what happened but don't just assume that because Zimmerman was losing the fight that he didn't in fact start it. I wouldn't be cool with someone following me like that.

I heard this morning that it may be possible that trayvon was the one that attacked zimmerman while he was following him. Zimmerman's camp is saying that trayvon attacked him, broke his nose, and then started smashing his head against the pavement and then a struggle to the weapon ensued. I'd really like to see an official report from the police at this point to know exactly what happened.

If this story happens to be true, there are a lot of new questions. While it would be annoying to be followed, does being followed warrant turning and then attacking a person. If the scenario went down as it's being claimed above It's a completely different story in my opinion. I wish the facts about this case were available. Without the facts everyone is just jumping to assumptions and it's not doing anyone any good.

Star_Cards
03-27-2012, 09:20 AM
I agree people need to wait for all the facts to come out, but just on an assumption. Look at the size of Zimmerman and the size of Martin. Are we really suppose to believe this kid (who looked like he could pass for being 12-14 years old) was "beating" on Zimmerman and holding him down etc?

Sorry, I can't buy that..

Why was Zimmerman chasing him down? I'd love to know this..There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're running after someone who you feel you need to defend yourself from.

agreed, we need facts, but I don't agree with the take of zimmerman was heavier than trayvon so therefore there's no way martin couldn't have attacked and put zimmerman in position of self defense. We really don't know how zimmerman's pursuit happened. Maybe they weren't running anymore? Maybe trayvon did break his nose and started smashing his head on the ground? If that did happen and even if zimmerman chose to follow martin, does that give the martin the right to attack zimmerman like that, if true? definitely need more facts at this point.

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 09:21 AM
a street fighting teen returns to retaliate on an overweight near middle aged man.


Zimmerman is 28 years old. That hardly qualifies as middle aged.

duane1969
03-27-2012, 09:27 AM
You must have missed the part of that story where it says Zimmerman was following Martin and that the 911 operator told him not to. I don't know if that's actually what happened but don't just assume that because Zimmerman was losing the fight that he didn't in fact start it. I wouldn't be cool with someone following me like that.

911 operators are not an authority on things tho. 911 operators will err on the side of caution but if one says "You should not do that" it doesn't mean that the person is held to obeying the 911 operator.


I agree people need to wait for all the facts to come out, but just on an assumption. Look at the size of Zimmerman and the size of Martin. Are we really suppose to believe this kid (who looked like he could pass for being 12-14 years old) was "beating" on Zimmerman and holding him down etc?

Sorry, I can't buy that..

Why was Zimmerman chasing him down? I'd love to know this..There is no such thing as "self defense" when you're running after someone who you feel you need to defend yourself from.

Zimmerman was a member of the community watch in a gated community, so he was justified in following questionable people. The term 'chasing down" implies that he meant harm. If you saw someone in your neighborhood that you thought was up to no good and you followed them while you called 911, would that qualify as chasing them down?

And there are pics coming out of Martin that reveal more than what is being presented. The media has presented Martin as this cute little kid. He was not quite as little or as innocent looking as the middle school football player they keep showing. There are pics starting to surface of him flaunting his gold grill, showing off his tattoos, standing up shirtless with his pants sagged "flipping the bird" with both hands...not the cute little boy we have been led to believe he was.

He had also been in trouble at school for putting graffitti on lockers, possesion of a marijuana pipe and a baggy with traces of marijuana and had been caught with women's jewelry that was suspected of being stolen which had been turned over to the police. His mother says that his school records are irrelevant, yet she filed a court order right after his death to try and supress his school records. Why?

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 09:30 AM
Zimmerman is 28 years old. That hardly qualifies as middle aged

that's all you can pick from that? you're losing your edge!!!!!


when does a beating turn into murder? when do you decide, this is just a fight, or this person is going to kill me? when your head is getting pounded into the pavement or when you're dead?

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 09:34 AM
And there are pics coming out of Martin that reveal more than what is being presented. The media has presented Martin as this cute little kid. He was not quite as little or as innocent looking as the middle school football player they keep showing. There are pics starting to surface of him flaunting his gold grill, showing off his tattoos, standing up shirtless with his pants sagged "flipping the bird" with both hands...not the cute little boy we have been led to believe he was.



And what teenaged child has not done any of this before on facebook, myspace, twitter, etc? And does any of this justify him being murdered in cold blood like an animal by a blood thirsty pyscopath?

ensbergcollector
03-27-2012, 09:35 AM
And what teenaged child has not done any of this before on facebook, myspace, twitter, etc? And does any of this justify him being murdered in cold blood like an animal by a blood thirsty pyscopath?

i love that in this case we have just thrown out the whole "innocent until proven guilty thing."

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 09:38 AM
i love that in this case we have just thrown out the whole "innocent until proven guilty thing."


Welcome to Politics and Religion. Enjoy your stay. :kiss:

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 09:42 AM
that's all you can pick from that? you're losing your edge!!!!!


when does a beating turn into murder? when do you decide, this is just a fight, or this person is going to kill me? when your head is getting pounded into the pavement or when you're dead?


If I go following around some guy that I don't know who is minding his business and he kicks my backside then I deserved exactly what I got. Why should I be able to kill someone who I provoked in the first place?

ensbergcollector
03-27-2012, 09:43 AM
Welcome to Politics and Religion. Enjoy your stay. :kiss:

i think you meant welcome to the trayvon martin thread. enjoy your stay

habsheaven
03-27-2012, 09:46 AM
Here's a pretty good summary of what we know:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

That summary makes no mention of the phone call between Trayvon and his girlfriend that does not fit the facts being presented here. I wonder why?

Star_Cards
03-27-2012, 10:13 AM
And what teenaged child has not done any of this before on facebook, myspace, twitter, etc? And does any of this justify him being murdered in cold blood like an animal by a blood thirsty pyscopath?

I don't think that pictures and tattoos make a difference. I also don't think it's fair to call zimmerman blood thirsty or a psychopath. If he was in fact beating zimmerman's head on the ground I don't know if that's being murdered in cold blood.

Star_Cards
03-27-2012, 10:22 AM
again, we don't know exactly how this pursuit went down. was it calm, was zimmerman yelling at him, was zimmerman grabbing him. we don't know exactly. To put the shoe on the other foot, if I'm...

tutall
03-27-2012, 10:35 AM
And what teenaged child has not done any of this before on facebook, myspace, twitter, etc? And does any of this justify him being murdered in cold blood like an animal by a blood thirsty pyscopath?

Seriously? I have never seen a single pic lie tat of any of the kids I am friends with on facebook.... I have 22 little leaguers that I require they add me so I can keep an eye on it and a few of my 15 year old brothers friends and I have never seen anything like that come across from any of them. I really think this has nothing to do with the story but Ill be honest... If I saw someone walking in my neighborhood that looked even a little suspicious at 3 AM I would probably question it too.

duane1969
03-27-2012, 10:35 AM
And what teenaged child has not done any of this before on facebook, myspace, twitter, etc? And does any of this justify him being murdered in cold blood like an animal by a blood thirsty pyscopath?

If it is just typical, run of the mill "kid stuff" then why are his parents portraying him with innocent looking pictures from middle school and not using the current pictures of his showing off his tattoos and flipping the bird?

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 10:36 AM
That summary makes no mention of the phone call between Trayvon and his girlfriend that does not fit the facts being presented here. I wonder why?

I don't know about the phone call.

duane1969
03-27-2012, 10:39 AM
If I go following around some guy that I don't know who is minding his business and he kicks my backside then I deserved exactly what I got. Why should I be able to kill someone who I provoked in the first place?

So you have gone from "Trayvon, the innocent little boy that was murdered for no reason" to "Trayvon was dishing out a butt-kicking that Zimmerman provoked and deserved"...and you did it on the same page. Nice.

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 10:44 AM
So you have gone from "Trayvon, the innocent little boy that was murdered for no reason" to "Trayvon was dishing out a butt-kicking that Zimmerman provoked and deserved"...and you did it on the same page. Nice.


I never said that Trayvon fought anyone. Neither you, I, or anyone else on this thread were there. The point I was making if you are in a public place being followed around by a stranger your first instinct is to prepare for some type of conflict.

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 10:48 AM
a gated community is not a public place, that is why it is gated

Star_Cards
03-27-2012, 10:50 AM
So you have gone from "Trayvon, the innocent little boy that was murdered for no reason" to "Trayvon was dishing out a butt-kicking that Zimmerman provoked and deserved"...and you did it on the same page. Nice.

in his defense, there have been both variations provided in the media. There was nothing out originally that is anything like the current report of possible happenings.

ensbergcollector
03-27-2012, 10:52 AM
I never said that Trayvon fought anyone. Neither you, I, or anyone else on this thread were there. The point I was making if you are in a public place being followed around by a stranger your first instinct is to prepare for some type of conflict.

you are right. none of us were there. that hasn't stopped you from calling zimmerman everything from a racist to a psychopathic cold blooded murderer. Not exactly the words of someone who doesn't know what happened.

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 10:54 AM
Here's the police report:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86368480/Trayvon-Martin-Shooting-Initial-Report

Says Zimmerman's back was wet as if he'd been lying in the grass and that he was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head.

Star_Cards
03-27-2012, 10:55 AM
I never said that Trayvon fought anyone. Neither you, I, or anyone else on this thread were there. The point I was making if you are in a public place being followed around by a stranger your first instinct is to prepare for some type of conflict.

I definitely see that side of the coin. I also see that if zimmerman was in fact walking back to his car there may not have been any grounds for martin to attack him and beat him. Just as zimmerman should have known he could be provoking someone to retaliate by following them, martin should have known that by punching someone and beating their head on the ground could also cause a provoked action, if that is how things went down.

the worst part about this a lot of people are going to be very upset no matter the outcome because they already have made up their minds on who is at fault.

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 10:56 AM
a gated community is not a public place, that is why it is gated


So a the penalty for trespassing is losing your life? Wow. I'm sure that no one on here ever took a shortcut through someone's yard growing up. :rolleyes:

ensbergcollector
03-27-2012, 10:58 AM
So a the penalty for trespassing is losing your life? Wow. I'm sure that no one on here ever took a shortcut through someone's yard growing up. :rolleyes:

come on man, you know full well what he meant. you said he was walking in a public place. a gated community is not a public place. Doesn't justify murder but it does justify someone being checked out and possibly followed.

tutall
03-27-2012, 10:58 AM
So a the penalty for trespassing is losing your life? Wow. I'm sure that no one on here ever took a shortcut through someone's yard growing up. :rolleyes:

I never did at 3 AM with a hoodie up and when questioned by someone who probably lives in the area and feels a need to protect it started running away from them.....

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 12:26 PM
The point I was making if you are in a public place being followed around by a stranger your first instinct is to prepare for some type of conflict.

and you should be prepared. but prepared should be moving to a safe location if possible, calling the police if possible, and putting distance between you.

being prepared and confronting someone is quite different. you don't know if you are dealing with a serial killer, a racist murderer, or worse

he had a cellphone, obviously he could run, or simply return to the store he bought his skittles from, there were other choices.

and the same could be said about zimmerman

Star_Cards
03-27-2012, 12:41 PM
and you should be prepared. but prepared should be moving to a safe location if possible, calling the police if possible, and putting distance between you.

being prepared and confronting someone is quite different. you don't know if you are dealing with a serial killer, a racist murderer, or worse

he had a cellphone, obviously he could run, or simply return to the store he bought his skittles from, there were other choices.

and the same could be said about zimmerman

agreed. they both made poor decision, if the latest story of how this went down is true. very sad that treyvon lost his life due to poor choices on both sides.

BGT Masters
03-27-2012, 01:45 PM
So a the penalty for trespassing is losing your life? Wow. I'm sure that no one on here ever took a shortcut through someone's yard growing up. :rolleyes:

If I was a kid taking a short cut through someone's lawn and someone called me out for it. I'd do one of two things, I'd run, or I'd stay there and apologize. I wouldn't start beating the guy in the face until his nose bled, or slam his head into the concrete until the back of his head bled as well. Saying its just trespassing is ridiculous even for you. Or should I guess the police report is a lie and George did all that to himself?

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 01:48 PM
If I was a kid taking a short cut through someone's lawn and someone called me out for it. I'd do one of two things, I'd run, or I'd stay there and apologize. I wouldn't start beating the guy in the face until his nose bled, or slam his head into the concrete until the back of his head bled as well. Saying its just trespassing is ridiculous even for you. Or should I guess the police report is a lie and George did all that to himself?


And we all know that police reports are always 100% accurate and local police never have any biases or agendas. :winking0071:

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 02:03 PM
here is how the media has trayvon

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 02:03 PM
here is how he was

BGT Masters
03-27-2012, 02:09 PM
shrewbury: Come on we all know that is just photoshop ;)

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 02:21 PM
also, zimmerman was a democrat, no way he was racist, we all know you have to be white and republican to be racist

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 02:21 PM
here is how he was


So tell me again what does him allegedly having a tatoo have to do with anything?

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 02:32 PM
well, he is not an innocent, football player as the media and the pictures show him.

he was a weed smoker, possible weed dealer, suspended from school and thought it was cool. had to change schools (wonder why) and still got suspended for being in an area he wasn't suppose to be in and tardy for class all the time.

and who lets their underage kid get tattoo's? much less a girl name for a tattoo?

how about showing this pic, instead of when he was in middle school?

duane1969
03-27-2012, 02:39 PM
So tell me again what does him allegedly having a tatoo have to do with anything?

Is contradicts the portrayal of him being a small, innocent little boy. He has been portrayed as this innocent little child that played football and was about as scary as a gnat.

If Martin was doing nothing wrong then Zimmerman should be tried and convicted. But don't portray Martin as something he wasn't in an effort to twist the facts and create this perception that this was a simple case of a gun-toting nut victimizing an innocent little boy who was just out to buy some candy.

Wickabee
03-27-2012, 03:07 PM
He had a tattoo?

GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!


right?

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 04:00 PM
George Zimmerman son of a retired judge has 3 closed arrests for violent crimes:

http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/

tutall
03-27-2012, 04:09 PM
Once again. A story of speculation and what ifs

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 05:00 PM
veggie, this is why i don't think he is innocent yet, but i also can't say he is guilty of a racial murder, yet.

INTIMADATOR2007
03-27-2012, 07:15 PM
Anyone send in for their t-shirt yet?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832

If not be sure to go to Obma's campagin website and get your very own Hoodie in memory of Travon , It is despicable that a president would take advantage of this story .

BGT Masters
03-27-2012, 07:18 PM
Anyone else read the article?

Last year Martin was suspended for spraying graffiti on school grounds. The Miami Herald reported that the school guard who stopped him searched his backpack and found 12 items of women's jewelry and a flathead screw driver that the guard believed to be a "burglary implement."

INTIMADATOR2007
03-27-2012, 07:20 PM
So Intimidator what do you suggest that we do? Let people go around killing our kids at will? That kind of been your son or your little brother. That could have even been you.

First of all if it was my son his butt would be in the house at 3 am ,and not going to some neigborhood he dosen't live in ,and where are the parents responsibility in this story if he was a year younger they would be in some serious trouble . I feel bad for the parents of trayvon but his butt should have been in his bed . And not out getting into fights with grown HISPANIC men.

pspstatus
03-27-2012, 07:20 PM
a gated community is not a public place, that is why it is gated


From what I understand his father lived in the community. If that's the case then he was a guest and was ok to be there.

INTIMADATOR2007
03-27-2012, 07:28 PM
A challenge for you Mr. Veggieman .The internet is slap full of Black panthers videos , your challenge is to TRY and find a video of the black panthers saying anything good about our country or white...

INTIMADATOR2007
03-27-2012, 07:32 PM
Anyone else read the article?

Last year Martin was suspended for spraying graffiti on school grounds. The Miami Herald reported that the school guard who stopped him searched his backpack and found 12 items of women's jewelry and a flathead screw driver that the guard believed to be a "burglary implement."

We are not supposed to question anything about trayvon or his life ,stop being racists..lol just the evil WHITE Hispanic that shot him while defending himself .

gladdyontherise
03-27-2012, 07:42 PM
And what teenaged child has not done any of this before on facebook, myspace, twitter, etc? And does any of this justify him being murdered in cold blood like an animal by a blood thirsty pyscopath?

I haven't done any of those things, because I wouldn't put shame onto my family and friends by acting like that.


I never did at 3 AM with a hoodie up and when questioned by someone who probably lives in the area and feels a need to protect it started running away from them.....
Why does it matter that his hoodie is up though? When I wear one I always have the hood up. Does that make me a suspect of possible crime?

BGT Masters
03-27-2012, 08:22 PM
We are not supposed to question anything about trayvon or his life ,stop being racists..lol just the evil WHITE Hispanic that shot him while defending himself .

I can't help it, I've been told me entire life its everything is my fault and that I'm racist, so in reality I'm the victim. :smash: Its more like this the evil white hispanic.

INTIMADATOR2007
03-27-2012, 08:29 PM
I can't help it, I've been told me entire life its everything is my fault and that I'm racist, so in reality I'm the victim. :smash: Its more like this the evil white hispanic.

LMAO ! Hey that means i'm a victim also , who do I sue ..lol

Wickabee
03-27-2012, 08:30 PM
We are not supposed to question anything about trayvon or his life ,stop being racists..lol just the evil WHITE Hispanic that shot him while defending himself .
If he had stopped following Trayvon when the 911 operator told him to, there'd be no problem.
I totally agree this was not racist, just stupidity and paranoia.

shrewsbury
03-27-2012, 08:33 PM
trayvon's dad's fiance lives in the gated community, so he was not a regular and unknown to the community watch guards

the closest 7-11 (according to google maps) is about 2 miles away, being 6"3" he could have been walking fast paced at around 3-4 miles an hour, so atleast an hour round trip after midnight to get skittles and a tea

duwal
03-27-2012, 08:38 PM
Here's the police report:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86368480/Trayvon-Martin-Shooting-Initial-Report

Says Zimmerman's back was wet as if he'd been lying in the grass and that he was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head.


police say there's a witness too that saw Trayvon punching Zimmerman as he was laying on the ground

BGT Masters
03-27-2012, 09:49 PM
Witness? Must be a cover up. ;)

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 08:40 AM
First of all if it was my son his butt would be in the house at 3 am ,and not going to some neigborhood he dosen't live in ,and where are the parents responsibility in this story if he was a year younger they would be in some serious trouble . I feel bad for the parents of trayvon but his butt should have been in his bed . And not out getting into fights with grown HISPANIC men.


Are your refererring to your 17 (which is legal age in georgia) year old son? Bottom line Zimmerman who btw is only 1/2 HISPANIC had no business following Martin around after 911 advised him not to.

shrewsbury
03-28-2012, 08:50 AM
Bottom line Zimmerman who btw is only 1/2 HISPANIC had no business following Martin around after 911 advised him not to.

maybe he didn't, he told the dispatch "ok" after they told him not to and a witness said trayvon came back to confront zimmerman

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 09:04 AM
maybe he didn't, he told the dispatch "ok" after they told him not to and a witness said trayvon came back to confront zimmerman


And how reliable is this so called witness. You saw how zimmerman's supposedly "black" friend got ripped to shreads.

tndcollectables
03-28-2012, 09:18 AM
Obama is 1/2 white so why doesn't he say anything about the white kid that got killed by the 3 blacks?

tndcollectables
03-28-2012, 09:19 AM
Media always spins things to whatever they want you to believe.

tndcollectables
03-28-2012, 09:21 AM
Also if you put Sharpton's picture and Zimmerman's picture side by side, I think Sharpton looks more white than Zimmerman.

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 09:38 AM
Obama is 1/2 white so why doesn't he say anything about the white kid that got killed by the 3 blacks?


Mabey he wasn't aware of it because the media did not speak on it. Oh wait a minute don't some of you believe that President Obama also controls the media?

shrewsbury
03-28-2012, 09:49 AM
And how reliable is this so called witness.

don't know, that's why i said MAYBE

when a non black kills a black they have the same rights to a fair trial as others do (i know, hard to believe)

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 10:00 AM
don't know, that's why i said MAYBE

when a non black kills a black they have the same rights to a fair trial as others do (i know, hard to believe)


They wont ever go to trial if the local police and his daddy who is a judge covers it up.

tndcollectables
03-28-2012, 10:11 AM
Mabey he wasn't aware of it because the media did not speak on it. Oh wait a minute don't some of you believe that President Obama also controls the media?


Don't be grouping everyone together now. I am just saying that he made such a big deal about Trayvon and there is other kids also being murdered. It is amazing that now Obama is leading in Florida, hmmmm minipulating the media to get votes. Something "new" isn't it?

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 10:15 AM
Don't be grouping everyone together now. I am just saying that he made such a big deal about Trayvon and there is other kids also being murdered. It is amazing that now Obama is leading in Florida, hmmmm minipulating the media to get votes. Something "new" isn't it?


Politicians have always played on what's popular to garner votes. Obama, bush, clinton, regan, etc. That's nothing new. So again what is your point? And you are right kids of all races get murdered every day. Until we as a society stand up to these monsters and say no more and stop arguing over trivial items such as was the kid wearing a hoodie or did he point his middle finger on facebook we will still keep dancing around the real issues.

ensbergcollector
03-28-2012, 10:17 AM
They wont ever go to trial if the local police and his daddy who is a judge covers it up.

and this is the problem. we know hardly any of the facts of the case, yet there are a multitude, rallied and stirred up by the likes of al sharpton and the black panthers, who have already decided that if zimmerman doesn't fry then it was a race based decision made by racist police. These things do as much negative for race based unity as anything else.

tndcollectables
03-28-2012, 10:22 AM
Politicians have always played on what's popular to garner votes. Obama, bush, clinton, regan, etc. That's nothing new. So again what is your point? And you are right kids of all races get murdered every day. Until we as a society stand up to these monsters and say no more and stop arguing over trivial items such as was the kid wearing a hoodie or did he point his middle finger on facebook we will still keep dancing around the real issues.


The point is Obama, Sharpton, Jackson has made this into a racial ordeal. It has all been done through the media, why? Was it because he knew he wasn't going to get re-elected?

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 10:22 AM
What about the lead investigator of the case (who happens to be white) who wanted to file manslaughter charges against zimmerman but was over rulled by the powers that be? <br />
...

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 10:24 AM
Was it because he knew he wasn't going to get re-elected?


How is President Obama not going to be elected? Do you republicans have some secret canidate that you plan on revealing to the world at your convention?

ensbergcollector
03-28-2012, 10:24 AM
i'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve to fry. i am saying we don't know. if martin was (as some reports say) slamming zimmerman's head into the ground, that changes everything. <br />
<br />
in fact, if...

habsheaven
03-28-2012, 10:27 AM
Don't be grouping everyone together now. I am just saying that he made such a big deal about Trayvon and there is other kids also being murdered. It is amazing that now Obama is leading in Florida, hmmmm minipulating the media to get votes. Something "new" isn't it?

That's strange. I was watching TV last night and the "Republican talking head" was actually praising Obama for not getting overly involved in the case.

ensbergcollector
03-28-2012, 10:28 AM
That's strange. I was watching TV last night and the "Republican talking head" was actually praising Obama for not getting overly involved in the case.

except for his "if I had a son he would look like trayvon" line. The president of the US helped make this an issue of race. Outrage at the case I would expect, not adding to the racial fire.

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 10:31 AM
except for his "if I had a son he would look like trayvon" line. The president of the US helped make this an issue of race. Outrage at the case I would expect, not adding to the racial fire.


I even seen white people make reference to Trayvon being their son. Believe it or not some white people do have compassion for blacks. President Obama was not making this into a racial issue. Thanks for trying.

shrewsbury
03-28-2012, 10:33 AM
looking like and acting like are 2 different things

ensbergcollector
03-28-2012, 10:35 AM
I even seen white people make reference to Trayvon being their son. Believe it or not some white people do have compassion for blacks. President Obama was not making this into a racial issue. Thanks for trying.

guess what, obama saying "if I had a son he would LOOK like trayvon" is him making it about race. He didn't say "he could be my son" or "that could have been anyone's son." He made it about race. You can act like you don't see it but that doesn't make it false. thanks for trying though.

and spare me with your "some white people do have compassion for blacks" crap. that is exactly what i'm talking about. it should have nothing to do with black and white. I have compassion for the kids family and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin.

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 10:52 AM
The point is Obama, Sharpton, Jackson has made this into a racial ordeal. It has all been done through the media, why? Was it because he knew he wasn't going to get re-elected?

What did Obama say about this to make it a racial issue? I just heard him say that Trayvon would look like his son had he had one. He does have a little resemblance in some of his younger pictures.

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 10:53 AM
except for his "if I had a son he would look like trayvon" line. The president of the US helped make this an issue of race. Outrage at the case I would expect, not adding to the racial fire.

I don;t follow how that quote makes it into a race issue on the part of Obama. People were talking about racism being a factor in this case well before Obama said that trayvon would look like a hypothetical son.

AUTaxMan
03-28-2012, 10:55 AM
What did Obama say about this to make it a racial issue? I just heard him say that Trayvon would look like his son had he had one. He does have a little resemblance in some of his younger pictures.

Why is Obama commenting on it at all? There would be no reason to, other than to add fuel to the flames.

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 11:02 AM
Why is Obama commenting on it at all? There would be no reason to, other than to add fuel to the flames.


Because he was asked.

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 11:03 AM
guess what, obama saying "if I had a son he would LOOK like trayvon" is him making it about race. He didn't say "he could be my son" or "that could have been anyone's son." He made it about race. You can act like you don't see it but that doesn't make it false. thanks for trying though.

and spare me with your "some white people do have compassion for blacks" crap. that is exactly what i'm talking about. it should have nothing to do with black and white. I have compassion for the kids family and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin.

That's a stretch saying that his quote made this a racial issue. I simply don't see it. Just because he said this kid would look like his son had no bearing on race. It's just a fact that he and michelle would produce a son who would be black. It's a fact that the person killed was black. He said nothing that even eluded to Zimmerman's motives of the shooting being racially motivated. To make that leap just doesn't make any sense.

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 11:04 AM
Why is Obama commenting on it at all? There would be no reason to, other than to add fuel to the flames.

like Veg said, he was asked by a member of the media. Seems reasonable for a President to weigh in if asked about it. Do you honestly think that any president would want to add fuel to an issue involving race? I sure don't.

habsheaven
03-28-2012, 11:06 AM
That's a stretch saying that his quote made this a racial issue. I simply don't see it. Just because he said this kid would look like his son had no bearing on race. It's just a fact that he and michelle would produce a son who would be black. It's a fact that the person killed was black. He said nothing that even eluded to Zimmerman's motives of the shooting being racially motivated. To make that leap just doesn't make any sense.

It's a complete stretch. I am constantly amazed at how some of Obama's detractors can manage to see EVERYTHING he does/says in a negative light.

ensbergcollector
03-28-2012, 11:07 AM
like Veg said, he was asked by a member of the media. Seems reasonable for a President to weigh in if asked about it.

i could be off base. the language he chose seemed very much to say "i am black just like trayvon was black." seemed a strange choice of words to me. again, wasn't trying to make a huge deal out of it. i don't know in my entire life I have ever seen a high ranking politician discuss a murder case by referencing skin color. If he wasn't attempting to then I apologize for thinking he was. not trying to get us sidetracked.

shrewsbury
03-28-2012, 11:09 AM
Obama's detractors can manage to see EVERYTHING he does/says in a negative light.

no different from when bush was in office

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 11:34 AM
i could be off base. the language he chose seemed very much to say "i am black just like trayvon was black." seemed a strange choice of words to me. again, wasn't trying to make a huge deal out of it. i don't know in my entire life I have ever seen a high ranking politician discuss a murder case by referencing skin color. If he wasn't attempting to then I apologize for thinking he was. not trying to get us sidetracked.

I don't see it as him referencing skin color at all. I felt he was telling trayvon's family and the country that he felt for the loss of their son. At the time I just saw it as his way of showing compassion for the loss of a young life and that he was empathizing that it could have been his son. I didn't and don't see any racial aspects to what he said other than he's black and trayvon is black. Would he have said it had the kid been white or latino or asian... not sure. Would he still show compassion for the loss of life if asked about it by the media? I believe he would.

AUTaxMan
03-28-2012, 11:42 AM
like Veg said, he was asked by a member of the media. Seems reasonable for a President to weigh in if asked about it. Do you honestly think that any president would want to add fuel to an issue involving race? I sure don't.

Why does it matter what he looked like? The only reason to bring up his appearance would be to tinge the commentary with race.

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 12:35 PM
When Caylee Anthony was murdered and her mother got away with the murder I was heartbroken. I took it as someone harmed my own daughter even though we are not the same race just like Trayvon Martin could have just well been my own son.

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 02:31 PM
Why does it matter what he looked like? The only reason to bring up his appearance would be to tinge the commentary with race.

It doesn't matter what he looked like. I'm believe Obama was simply showing empathy as that could have been his son. I'm baffled how his comment has been viewed as him bringing up anything to do with race.

ensbergcollector
03-28-2012, 02:44 PM
It doesn't matter what he looked like. I'm believe Obama was simply showing empathy as that could have been his son. I'm baffled how his comment has been viewed as him bringing up anything to do with race.

first of all, i'm sorry i even brought it up. i wasn't trying to make a large deal out of it. that said, not really sure how the statement "my son would look like trayvon" is to be interpreted in any way but him referring to color. As I said, he didn't say "that could have been my son or that could have been any of our children" which have been said thousands of times by thousands of people. he made the focus of his statement that his son would "look" like trayvon. if this case happened when gwb was president, and he had said the exact same words. Wouldn't people have thought it an odd and strange choice of words?
again, this pales in comparison to all the other issues this case has so I apologize for bringing it up.

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 03:02 PM
first of all, i'm sorry i even brought it up. i wasn't trying to make a large deal out of it. that said, not really sure how the statement "my son would look like trayvon" is to be interpreted in any way but him referring to color. As I said, he didn't say "that could have been my son or that could have been any of our children" which have been said thousands of times by thousands of people. he made the focus of his statement that his son would "look" like trayvon. if this case happened when gwb was president, and he had said the exact same words. Wouldn't people have thought it an odd and strange choice of words?
again, this pales in comparison to all the other issues this case has so I apologize for bringing it up.

I agree it was odd to say, but had GWB said the same thing about a white kid I wouldn't say he's making it a racial issue. I'd have the same stance. Sure there would be people attacking just like there are now. Those people decide what to think based on their allegiances.

INTIMADATOR2007
03-28-2012, 10:07 PM
Because he was asked.

It was a planted question , told to be asked by the president before the press conference started . I have no proof just my opinion and would not put it beyond the administration to ask such a question to make it sound like the president is concerned . The only thing the president is concerned about is getting re-elected . Why wouldn't he comment on the black panther reward or the racial hate coming from the left . He should denounce the congressman that was in the chamber today with a hoodie and all the congress people that have brought the issue to the house and senate floor . If the president was so concerned he would put a stop to the rally's across the country and the looting of stores in Trayvons memory, is that a way to remeber trayvon by comitting violence ?

shrewsbury
03-28-2012, 10:58 PM
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/miami-teens-ransack-loot-local-walgreens-in-trayvon-martin-protest/

what is our youth taught and who the heck is teaching them this?

DunkingDurant35
03-28-2012, 11:12 PM
Trayvon Martin Video Shows No Blood or Bruises on George Zimmerman
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3PSvtV0Suk

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 11:18 PM
It was a planted question , told to be asked by the president before the press conference started . I have no proof just my opinion and would not put it beyond the administration to ask such a question to make it sound like the president is concerned . The only thing the president is concerned about is getting re-elected . Why wouldn't he comment on the black panther reward or the racial hate coming from the left . He should denounce the congressman that was in the chamber today with a hoodie and all the congress people that have brought the issue to the house and senate floor . If the president was so concerned he would put a stop to the rally's across the country and the looting of stores in Trayvons memory, is that a way to remeber trayvon by comitting violence ?

Planted question. Lol.

Do you actually think that a president should stop rallies? How would he do that? Send out the military? Saying a president should put a stop to having rallies is absurd. However I agree that the looting makes zero sense to me.

BGT Masters
03-28-2012, 11:26 PM
Trayvon Martin Video Shows No Blood or Bruises on George Zimmerman
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3PSvtV0Suk

After he already received medical treatment. Lovely close up grainy shots in that video by the way with the news logo covering his head anyways half of it. I guess the cops just lied in the report to cover up the shooting. You have a witness who confirms Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his face and slamming his head into the concrete. I guess that's not enough.

NY Sports Teams
03-28-2012, 11:36 PM
mrveggieman, you're original post was:

"I'm surprised that no one has bought this story up. For those of you who don't know Trayvon Martin was the Black teenager from Florida who was murdered in cold blood by a white guy who claimed that he was doing a neighboorhood watch and it was self defense despite all of the evidence saying otherwise. There have so far been no arrests in the case and the FBI has taken over the investigation."

After finding out the shooter was not white you had to clarify to save face "We cannot stand by in silence while these monsters go around hurting our children."

You have close to 4,500 posts here at SCF. I have no idea if you post anywhere else. Could you please enlighten me, have you ever posted anything prior to this post where a white or even hispanic kid was shot by a black male and you had the same concern/outrage as you have shown here? If you have please be kind enough to send me a link or links, I would appreciate it. I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from and who I'm dealing with. Given at face value surely you are so outraged that you needed to start a thread because you could not "stand by in silence while these monsters go around hurting our children". I would think you must have previous posts on this site or another site documenting others that have done just that showing you're sincere genuine concern about "our children". Thank you for your time.

...Rick


EDIT: I'm not asking to see a thread like you started here, but only a post, any post showing you're contempt at a black male killing an innocent black/white/hispanic/asian/ect child, woman or man.

INTIMADATOR2007
03-29-2012, 01:21 AM
Absolutley, if he is going to insert himself in something like this instead of directing his attention to our nations troubles he sure can call for a stop to the violence going on in the rallies ....

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 08:47 AM
mrveggieman, you're original post was:

"I'm surprised that no one has bought this story up. For those of you who don't know Trayvon Martin was the Black teenager from Florida who was murdered in cold blood by a white guy who claimed that he was doing a neighboorhood watch and it was self defense despite all of the evidence saying otherwise. There have so far been no arrests in the case and the FBI has taken over the investigation."

After finding out the shooter was not white you had to clarify to save face "We cannot stand by in silence while these monsters go around hurting our children."

You have close to 4,500 posts here at SCF. I have no idea if you post anywhere else. Could you please enlighten me, have you ever posted anything prior to this post where a white or even hispanic kid was shot by a black male and you had the same concern/outrage as you have shown here? If you have please be kind enough to send me a link or links, I would appreciate it. I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from and who I'm dealing with. Given at face value surely you are so outraged that you needed to start a thread because you could not "stand by in silence while these monsters go around hurting our children". I would think you must have previous posts on this site or another site documenting others that have done just that showing you're sincere genuine concern about "our children". Thank you for your time.

...Rick


EDIT: I'm not asking to see a thread like you started here, but only a post, any post showing you're contempt at a black male killing an innocent black/white/hispanic/asian/ect child, woman or man.


Yes I posted on facebook about the Caylee Anthony murder as well as Jorelys Rivera the little Hispanic girl will was raped and murdered by Ryan Brunn the maitenance worker. I also talked about the story here. I am against any child being murdered regardless of race so to suggest otherwise is proposterous. Im not going to post my facebook page here because it contains profanity on some of the postings but if you would like to see it send me your information and I will send you an add request. BTW zimmerman's father was white so he is half white. Thanks for playing.

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 08:48 AM
You ought to be a comedian with some of the stuff that you say on here. :loco:

tsjct
03-29-2012, 10:32 AM
Yes I posted on facebook about the Caylee Anthony murder as well as Jorelys Rivera the little Hispanic girl will was raped and murdered by Ryan Brunn the maitenance worker. I also talked about the story here. I am against any child being murdered regardless of race so to suggest otherwise is proposterous. Im not going to post my facebook page here because it contains profanity on some of the postings but if you would like to see it send me your information and I will send you an add request. BTW zimmerman's father was white so he is half white. Thanks for playing.

Well Obama is half white but all we here is how a black man in office is under attack because he is black.

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 10:46 AM
Well Obama is half white but all we here is how a black man in office is under attack because he is black.


Yes he is but we all know that he is recognized and identified as a blackman.

shrewsbury
03-29-2012, 10:52 AM
Yes he is but we all know that he is recognized and identified as a blackman.

dang, i thought he was an american president!!!!

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 11:02 AM
dang, i thought he was an american president!!!!


I thought so too but that's not what the birthers, tea party and other conservatives say.

shrewsbury
03-29-2012, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by shrewsbury
dang, i thought he was an american president!!!!


I thought so too but that's not what the birthers, tea party and other conservatives say.

but i'm conservative

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 11:19 AM
but i'm conservative


Yes you are but I sometimes see you taking a moderate viewpoint. There may be hope for you afterall. :winking0071:

gladdyontherise
03-29-2012, 11:23 AM
Yes he is but we all know that he is recognized and identified as a blackman.

and Zimmerman would be identified as hispanic...

boba
03-29-2012, 11:41 AM
Yes he is but we all know that he is recognized and identified as a blackman.


Ok, lets do some basic formal logic to put this in basic terms so you will get it.

If Obama is half black and still classified by you as a black man, and Zimmerman is half Hispanic.

What is the logical conclusion to this?

Therefore, Zimmerman is Hispanic by your standards.

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 11:55 AM
Ok, lets do some basic formal logic to put this in basic terms so you will get it.

If Obama is half black and still classified by you as a black man, and Zimmerman is half Hispanic.

What is the logical conclusion to this?

Therefore, Zimmerman is Hispanic by your standards.


Obama's father is black so he is considered black. Zimmerman's father is white so he would be considered white. Thanks again for playing.

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 11:56 AM
People usually go by what your father is ...

habsheaven
03-29-2012, 12:05 PM
I thought people went by what they LOOKED like, or they went by what you identified yourself as to them.

boba
03-29-2012, 12:11 PM
Obama's father is black so he is considered black. Zimmerman's father is white so he would be considered white. Thanks again for playing.


When push comes to shove they both are half.

So unless you consider males to be the superior ( we then have other problems ), they should be classified the same way.

boba
03-29-2012, 12:11 PM
i thought people went by what they looked like, or they went by what you identified yourself as to them.


+1

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 12:14 PM
When push comes to shove they both are half.

So unless you consider males to be the superior ( we then have other problems ), they should be classified the same way.


It has nothing to do with male superiority but society generally goes by the race of your father.

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 12:17 PM
People usually go by what your father is ...

Depends who you ask apparently. I guess that's why everyone calls Tiger Woods black when in reality he looks more Asian and is actually more Asian than black. Also why is Mariah Carey not considered black? Her father wasn't white. To me if you're 1/4 something 1/4 something else and 1/2 whatever, you're whatever. If you're 1/2 something and 1/2 something else you're whatever you look like. First time I have EVER heard its all who your father is, thats just garbage as far as I am concerned. To me it seems like if it benefits your race than he's claimed as that race and vice versa. How the black community claims Tiger Woods is beyond me since he's half Asian and only 1/4 African American.

Star_Cards
03-29-2012, 12:54 PM
I get violent rallies, but I've only heard of the one case where a rally turned into looting. Most of the rallies that have happened haven't had any aspect of violence from what I have heard. I think...

Wickabee
03-29-2012, 01:06 PM
If roles were completely revered between white and black historically, Obama would be the first white President.

hawk2618
03-29-2012, 01:41 PM
I have read a brief summary the Trayvon Martin case.This is a terrible thing that should have never happened and could've been avoided.I believe no calm talk happened whatsoever.As I was a kid once,I will say I NEVER EVER EVER would've embraced in a conversation with a stanger following me.Its just how I was brought up.By just turning around to engage in a converstaion,it appears that Trayvon,in my opinion,would've been defensive and with verbal aggression blurting out obsanities like "™™™ are you following me for?" and so on.After that,we all know what happened.I merely say this because I see how kids act toward adults these days.There is a huge lack of respect and I don't see it changing anytime soon.I fear for my kids everyday when they leave for school.Have any of you seen what kids wear in schools these days? Although,there are uniforms,its low riding pants,piercings,tattoos,mp3 players.My God,I would never want to live through these times as a kid.My daughter comes home from school and tells me "Dad,there was another fight today"or "One of our teachers got picked on today bc she has a speech impediment".How sad is that?? Seriously,does anyone here see it changing anytime soon??~~Dave C.

NY Sports Teams
03-29-2012, 01:52 PM
Yes I posted on facebook about the Caylee Anthony murder as well as Jorelys Rivera the little Hispanic girl will was raped and murdered by Ryan Brunn the maitenance worker. I also talked about the story here. I am against any child being murdered regardless of race so to suggest otherwise is proposterous. Im not going to post my facebook page here because it contains profanity on some of the postings but if you would like to see it send me your information and I will send you an add request. BTW zimmerman's father was white so he is half white. Thanks for playing.

I had asked you if you ever posted anything where a black male killed a black/whitehispanic/asian/ect and to post links. You gave Caylee Anthony who was murdered by her mother, Casey, a white female. You also gave me Ryan Brunn who is a white male. I guess you have not posted anything where a black male was the murderer. Now I know where you're coming from and who I'm dealing with. Thank you for you're time and thank you for playing. You lose. I don't need to see other postings about white murderers.

...Rick

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 01:53 PM
I had asked you if you ever posted anything where a black male killed a black/whitehispanic/asian/ect and to post links. You gave Caylee Anthony who was murdered by her mother, Casey, a white female. You also gave me Ryan Brunn who is a white male. I guess you have not posted anything where a black male was the murderer. Now I know where you're coming from and who I'm dealing with. Thank you for you're time and thank you for playing. You lose. I don't need to see other postings about white murderers.

...Rick

CHURCH!!!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 02:04 PM
I had asked you if you ever posted anything where a black male killed a black/whitehispanic/asian/ect and to post links. You gave Caylee Anthony who was murdered by her mother, Casey, a white female. You also gave me Ryan Brunn who is a white male. I guess you have not posted anything where a black male was the murderer. Now I know where you're coming from and who I'm dealing with. Thank you for you're time and thank you for playing. You lose. I don't need to see other postings about white murderers.

...Rick


Sorry to burst you bubble but I don't go searching out for negative stories. I go online and look at what's popular in the news or someone may email something to me. If it is about a violent crime I post regardless of who the victim or predator. Thanks for playing.

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 02:11 PM
Depends who you ask apparently. I guess that's why everyone calls Tiger Woods black when in reality he looks more Asian and is actually more Asian than black. Also why is Mariah Carey not considered black? Her father wasn't white. To me if you're 1/4 something 1/4 something else and 1/2 whatever, you're whatever. If you're 1/2 something and 1/2 something else you're whatever you look like. First time I have EVER heard its all who your father is, thats just garbage as far as I am concerned. To me it seems like if it benefits your race than he's claimed as that race and vice versa. How the black community claims Tiger Woods is beyond me since he's half Asian and only 1/4 African American.
you can read up on yourself about Mariah.. right here

http://bossip.com/194250/mariah-carey-the-only-reason-i-am-considered-black-is-because-of-a-legal-technicality/

And Tiger is mixed with like 6 different things, and besides thai(which is the same %) he is just as much black as anything else.. and looks it , what asian man do you know with dark skin , tall , wider nose and curly hair??so going by your logic , Tiger is black, not sure what you're getting at?>

Let me ask you this, Tiger fills out an application and puts hes asian , and they call him in..they will look at him funny, if he puts black, they will look at him and take him to the interviewer

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 02:18 PM
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width/hash/e6/5d/e65df298ed282a416fa5f4d2aae25b4b.jpg


:twitch: Where have you seen an Asian person look like this?

boba
03-29-2012, 02:19 PM
you can read up on yourself about Mariah.. right here

http://bossip.com/194250/mariah-carey-the-only-reason-i-am-considered-black-is-because-of-a-legal-technicality/

And Tiger is mixed with like 6 different things, and besides thai(which is the same %) he is just as much black as anything else.. and looks it , what asian man do you know with dark skin , tall , wider nose and curly hair??so going by your logic , Tiger is black, not sure what you're getting at?>

Let me ask you this, Tiger fills out an application and puts hes asian , and they call him in..they will look at him funny, if he puts black, they will look at him and take him to the interviewer


Let me ask you this, Zimmerman fills out an application and puts hes white , and they call him in..they will look at him funny, if he puts hispanic, they will look at him and take him to the interviewer

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 02:22 PM
Let me ask you this, Zimmerman fills out an application and puts hes white , and they call him in..they will look at him funny, if he puts hispanic, they will look at him and take him to the interviewer

You're not asking me anything?


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-psPGhaeYEbE/T3LLqGqFoKI/AAAAAAAACTI/QZ7PxBYJNP8/s288/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin.jpg
second of all , i can see the white in him.. looks like he could have russian in him, or somewhere around

EDIT: You can tell he is mixed, but he could slide putting white sidenote: he looks more white than tiger looks asian to me

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 02:49 PM
Actually I am right, Tiger is more ASIAN than anything else. 1/4 Thai plus 1/4 Chinese makes 1/2 Asian. And what do you mean dark skinned asians??? I think a trillion or so Indian people would have something to say about that. Tiger to me looks Asian. I guess when I hear asian I don't immediately think of very narrow slanted eyes, pale white and short. To me when i look at Tiger he's just more Asian to me. And when I did the research I was right. Half Asian is > quarter African American.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/BGT_Masters/Woods.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/BGT_Masters/woodsb.jpg

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 02:54 PM
Actually I am right, Tiger is more ASIAN than anything else. 1/4 Thai plus 1/4 Chinese makes 1/2 Asian. And what do you mean dark skinned asians??? I think a trillion or so Indian people would have something to say about that. Tiger to me looks Asian. I guess when I hear asian I don't immediately think of very narrow slanted eyes, pale white and short. To me when i look at Tiger he's just more Asian to me. And when I did the research I was right. Half Asian is > quarter African American.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/BGT_Masters/Woods.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/BGT_Masters/woodsb.jpg

Only way your theory works is if you consider Thai people and Chinese to be the same... can we call Indian people Asian since they are in Asia then, too?

Wickabee
03-29-2012, 02:59 PM
Asian since they are in Asia then, too?
If you're referring to where they are, yes.
If you're referring to their genetics, no. Indians are Caucasian.

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 03:01 PM
If you're referring to where they are, yes.
If you're referring to their genetics, no. Indians are Caucasian.


Where did you get that from?

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 03:06 PM
As in the same you mean coming from the continent of Asia like I said, then yes. I look at Tiger and I think "I wonder what part of Asia his family comes from". What do I know though, I don't look at someone and feel a need to claim them because they might or may not be a certain race. Tiger is 1/2 Asian and by the numbers to me he's not black.

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 03:06 PM
Im just trying to figure out how 1/4 Thai and a 1/4 Chinese = half Asian , (but that's just based on similar traits since Thai and Chinese are different and you can't combine it to make one ethnicity ... ) but Indians who live in Asia aren't Asian? Like i put, Tiger is just as much black as any OTHER ONE race or ethnicity or whatever you want to put.

hawk2618
03-29-2012, 03:10 PM
:twitch: Where have you seen an Asian person look like this?

Sammy Davis Jr. was Jewish.Not sure what % but back then, it was a day to day joke to many comedians to mention Sammy being a Jew to get a laugh.Not many of the public knew this about him so when it was coined in many of Dean Martin roasts',it always got a thunderous roar.Remember when you could make fun of a nationality and gets tons of laughs? Don Rickles once got interupted by Nipsy Russell (a black man) while roasting someone......his response???
"I hate it when a spade interupts" NOW!!!!!
Imagine that today?????....man....grant it,they all knew and understood it was joke orientated,but I don't recall it ever hitting the news "White man bashes black on national tv"

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 03:15 PM
Im just trying to figure out how 1/4 Thai and a 1/4 Chinese = half Asian , (but that's just based on similar traits since Thai and Chinese are different and you can't combine it to make one ethnicity ... ) but Indians who live in Asia aren't Asian? Like i put, Tiger is just as much black as any OTHER ONE race or ethnicity or whatever you want to put.

Why not? We call people from Africa, Africans??? But its wrong for me to call someone Asian because half of their ethnic background is from Asia. Give me a break.

angel0430
03-29-2012, 03:16 PM
Now that some of you are bringing the race and the 1/2 and 1/2 thing...explain to me why here in the United States balck people call themselves African-American if they sometimes do not have any relatives in Africa?

They are AMERICAN...

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 03:27 PM
Now that some of you are bringing the race and the 1/2 and 1/2 thing...explain to me why here in the United States balck people call themselves African-American if they sometimes do not have any relatives in Africa?

They are AMERICAN...


Yes we are american but our roots come from africa. Just like an irish american's roots come from ireland, an asian american's roots come from asia, an mexican amercian's roots come from mexico, etc.

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 03:29 PM
Why not? We call people from Africa, Africans??? But its wrong for me to call someone Asian because half of their ethnic background is from Asia. Give me a break.

Okay , Nene is Brazilian , so he wouldn't be black to you? or would he? But he is from Brazil .. but hes black? oh the confusion....

What im trying to say is you don't know Tigers family, next to you knowing half of his family is from Asia means closest to squat as you can get.

Thailand has Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam in between them and China... how can you just combined the fact he is two different kinds of Asian together to say he is more than black is wrong... he is 1/4 black , 1/4 chinese, 1/4 thai , 1/8 dutch(white) , 1/8 native american

from what I see right there, he is no more any other ethnicity than he is black or chinese or thai

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 03:33 PM
You didn't answer my question. Why is it NOT alright for me to call Tiger Woods Asian because 1/2 of his ethnic back ground is from Asia, but if we use the same logic for Africans you wouldn't say he's 1/4 Kenyan, 1/4 Ugandan 1/2 whatever else? You'd just say he's 1/2 African 1/2 whatever. Its either one or the other. If its not, its a bit hypocritical don't you think? The argument you made above just doesn't hold much ground because I just used it against you.

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 03:34 PM
Yes we are american but our roots come from africa. Just like an irish american's roots come from ireland, an asian american's roots come from asia, an mexican amercian's roots come from mexico, etc.



So going by what you said, then I am African American also.

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 03:36 PM
Am I black? No, but if I said I am African American I would be looked at as odd. Wouldn't I? Yes, my ancestors are from Africa.

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 03:39 PM
Am I black? No, but if I said I am African American I would be looked at as odd. Wouldn't I? Yes, my ancestors are from Africa.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. :winking0071:

AUTaxMan
03-29-2012, 03:40 PM
What if you're an American with South African white parents? Are you also African-American? I hate hyphenated Americanism. It serves no purpose but to divide.

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 03:41 PM
You didn't answer my question. Why is it NOT alright for me to call Tiger Woods Asian because 1/2 of his ethnic back ground is from Asia, but if we use the same logic for Africans you wouldn't say he's 1/4 Kenyan, 1/4 Ugandan 1/2 whatever else? You'd just say he's 1/2 African 1/2 whatever. Its either one or the other. If its not, its a bit hypocritical don't you think? The argument you made above just doesn't hold much ground because I just used it against you.

Doesn't matter, I could be born in France and have a child with a French woman, well since I was born in France and so was the mother, my child is 100% European , right?

Or same thing I could be born in Belgium and have a child with an Irish woman, guess that makes my child 100% european so i can just combine them and call him that , right?

Im just going off what we now, without knowing Tigers family.. we do know the most of someting he is is 1/4 and he couldn't tell you the specifics either way about his black side if he was born in America, thanks to a certain time in history

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 03:48 PM
What if you're an American with South African white parents? Are you also African-American? I hate hyphenated Americanism. It serves no purpose but to divide.

In theory yes, but I agree. Of course I don't go around saying I'm Native American, Irish American, Crotian American, if asked I'm American. Just makes things a lot easier. Are other countries this caught up in where their family originally comes from?

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 03:50 PM
Whatever makes you sleep better at night. :winking0071:


I am serious about what I said. I am Norwegian, French, Irish, Indian. For some reason my ancestors landed in Africa for awhile. Then they left and
sailed up to Canada. Nobody knows how long they were there.

Before you say whats my point, the point is you don't have to be black to be a African.

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 03:52 PM
What if you're an American with South African white parents? Are you also African-American? I hate hyphenated Americanism. It serves no purpose but to divide.



Yes, that is my point. This is the only country that does it. That is what makes thing so hard here. When I file out application I always mark other then write in American.

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 03:53 PM
I am serious about what I said. I am Norwegian, French, Irish, Indian. For some reason my ancestors landed in Africa for awhile. Then they left and
sailed up to Canada. Nobody knows how long they were there.

Before you say whats my point, the point is you don't have to be black to be a African.


You just answered your own question. If your ansestors were originaly from France, Noraway, and Ireland then you would be a mix of France, Noraway and Irish. You also said Indian but I'm not sure if you were referring to the country of India which would make you and Indian or if you are part native american. Based on what you are saying you would not be considered of africian decent.

shrewsbury
03-29-2012, 03:53 PM
quite a bit of white africans

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 03:54 PM
Doesn't matter, I could be born in France and have a child with a French woman, well since I was born in France and so was the mother, my child is 100% European , right?

Or same thing I could be born in Belgium and have a child with an Irish woman, guess that makes my child 100% european so i can just combine them and call him that , right?

Im just going off what we now, without knowing Tigers family.. we do know the most of someting he is is 1/4 and he couldn't tell you the specifics either way about his black side if he was born in America, thanks to a certain time in history

Yes if you were Belgium and had a child with a woman who is Irish than you would be 100% right calling your child European. Nothing wrong with that. Its no different than your child being from like I mentioned earlier Uganda and Kenya and calling them African. Now if you were 1/2 Asian and 1/2 Belgium and you had a child with a woman who is Irish it would be odd to refer to the child as Asian and not European. To me at least.

shrewsbury
03-29-2012, 03:55 PM
Based on what you are saying you would not be considered of africian decent.

but if we just kept tracing back, we would all either be from mud and lightning or from the one source your religion states.

so technically no one is african or american?

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 03:55 PM
quite a bit of white africans


Where did the white africian's ancestors come from?

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 03:57 PM
You just answered your own question. If your ansestors were originaly from France, Noraway, and Ireland then you would be a mix of France, Noraway and Irish. You also said Indian but I'm not sure if you were referring to the country of India which would make you and Indian or if you are part native american. Based on what you are saying you would not be considered of africian decent.


They lived in Africa though and they claimed Africa as their country. My relatives were born there. So my roots, according to you, trace to Africa.

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 04:00 PM
They lived in Africa though and they claimed Africa as their country. My relatives were born there. So my roots, according to you, trace to Africa.

Some people think you aren't allowed to be White African.

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 04:02 PM
Some people think you aren't allowed to be White African.


Only if you don't live in Africa.

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 04:06 PM
So if you're family has a long history of living in Africa and they move over here and you are born here, you don't have the right to claim African heritage? Anyone have an umbrella handy? A lot of hypocrisy being thrown around here today.

shrewsbury
03-29-2012, 04:07 PM
Where did the white africian's ancestors come from?

same place all our ancestors came from?

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 04:09 PM
Only if you don't live in Africa.


Did you live in Africa?

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 04:10 PM
So if you're family has a long history of living in Africa and they move over here and you are born here, you don't have the right to claim African heritage? Anyone have an umbrella handy? A lot of hypocrisy being thrown around here today.


I'm sure that all of us have a long history of family living in america but if you are not native american then you would be whatever your family originally came from which in your case would not be africa. If you moved to china and lived there for 20 years and came back here would you all of a sudden be considered a chinese american?

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 04:11 PM
Did you live in Africa?


No but my acestors are originally from there. They did not migrate there from elsewhere.

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 04:12 PM
I'm sure that all of us have a long history of family living in america but if you are not native american then you would be whatever your family originally came from which in your case would not be africa. If you moved to china and lived there for 20 years and came back here would you all of a sudden be considered a chinese american?


If you children born there, yes.

ensbergcollector
03-29-2012, 04:13 PM
guys, just give it up. according to veggie only blacks have a right to be called african american. it doesn't matter if you were born in africa. if you are white, the rules change until you can't claim you are african american.

If you are white, you must trace your ancestors somewhere other than africa. If you are black, it doesn't matter if 10 generations of your family has lived in america. you are african american.

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 04:13 PM
No but my acestors are originally from there. They did not migrate there from elsewhere.



But my ancestors that were born there, left.

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 04:17 PM
guys, just give it up. according to veggie only blacks have a right to be called african american. it doesn't matter if you were born in africa. if you are white, the rules change until you can't claim you are african american.

If you are white, you must trace your ancestors somewhere other than africa. If you are black, it doesn't matter if 10 generations of your family has lived in america. you are african american.

I know, its just annoying to read the daily amount of the same old garbage. You could slap some people's face on this forum with proof after proof and with a straight face nonetheless, they have been given the ability to deny all this nonsense they keep spewing.

If Veggies ancestors came from African, he's African American, if TND's ancestors also were born and lived in Africa he can't claim the same because he doesn't have black skin. Its just ignorant.

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 04:20 PM
To me it doesn't matter, we are all just plain Americans. Its the politicians that love stiring the pot. If we would just refer to one another as Americans it would solve everything.

mrveggieman
03-29-2012, 04:20 PM
I know, its just annoying to read the daily amount of the same old garbage. You could slap some people's face on this forum with proof after proof and with a straight face nonetheless, they have been given the ability to deny all this nonsense they keep spewing.

If Veggies ancestors came from African, he's African American, if TND's ancestors also were born and lived in Africa he can't claim the same because he doesn't have black skin. Its just ignorant.

Let's do this. Let all of us walk around an affluent neighborhood late at night and see which one us gets called and african american if you know what I mean. :winking0071:

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 04:23 PM
To me it doesn't matter, we are all just plain Americans. Its the politicians that love stiring the pot. If we would just refer to one another as Americans it would solve everything.

I've said that many times. Unfortunately how things are going its never going to happen. We are supposed to be the great melting pot, unfortunately not everything has blended together as nicely as we would have hoped. I must admit though even though I like to prefer being bias I have my own racist habits. I dislike some people because they're stupid.

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 04:24 PM
Let's do this. Let all of us walk around an affluent neighborhood late at night and see which one us gets called and african american if you know what I mean. :winking0071:


I have and was asked, "White boy, what are you doing here?"

boba
03-29-2012, 04:26 PM
No but my acestors are originally from there. They did not migrate there from elsewhere.

At one point your ancestors did migrate there.

ensbergcollector
03-29-2012, 04:27 PM
Let's do this. Let all of us walk around an affluent neighborhood late at night and see which one us gets called and african american if you know what I mean. :winking0071:

yes, and the cause of that is because blacks in the country have insisted on being called african american. so, those affluent people you speak of would actually be respecting your wishes.

again, for me personally, if you can't say that anyone more recent then your great-grandparents came from somewhere else, then you are just american. if your parents, grandparents, or you were born elsewhere then by all means call yourself whatever you like.

i have 2 close friends who were both born in africa and grew up there. Lived there till their teens. both are white. are they not allowed to be called african american? to say they aren't while saying someone who has no ties to africa more recent then 150+ years ago is, is ridiculous. cultural statements were never supposed to be about race.

theonedru
03-29-2012, 04:28 PM
1. not all Blacks are from Africa, there are a lot of places around the globe they can be descended from.

2. I have White friends that can say they are African American since they were born and grew up there.

theonedru
03-29-2012, 04:34 PM
I wil also state for the record to be truly African American or whatever American you would would have to be born there and live here, otherwise you are just plain old American.

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 04:35 PM
I wil also state for the record to be truly African American or whatever American you would would have to be born there and live here, otherwise you are just plain old American.

Agreed. The same can be said about anywhere. Thats how I explained how I felt about myself in a previous thread a couple weeks ago. I see myself as American plain and simple.

tndcollectables
03-29-2012, 04:36 PM
i wil also state for the record to be truly african american or whatever american you would would have to be born there and live here, otherwise you are just plain old american.



amen!

shrewsbury
03-29-2012, 04:41 PM
No but my acestors are originally from there. They did not migrate there from elsewhere.

mrveggie, i have to ask how do you know? you stated, just recently, your slave masters did not allow your people to know there heritage

NY Sports Teams
03-29-2012, 04:56 PM
Sorry to burst you bubble but I don't go searching out for negative stories. I go online and look at what's popular in the news or someone may email something to me. If it is about a violent crime I post regardless of who the victim or predator. Thanks for playing.

You're not bursting my bubble. I guess you have not seen/read/ect any violent crimes perpetrated by a black male. Blacks make up approximately 13.6% of the population yet account for approximately 39.4% of prison population. With my limited education it seems like the incarceration rate is three times what it should be according to the percentage of black in our population. I guess with those percentages it must be very difficult to find any stories about a black male murdering a black/white/hispanic/asian/ect man, women or child to start a thread about.

You're initial post of "For those of you who don't know Trayvon Martin was the Black teenager from Florida who was murdered in cold blood by a white guy who claimed that he was doing a neighboorhood watch and it was self defense despite all of the evidence saying otherwise." tells it all. Right away you wanted to attack white people without even knowing the whole story.

I need not comment any further, I know the type of individual you are, you have shown your stripes. No, don't thank me, thank you sir for playing.

...Rick


EDIT: One last thing. Had I come on here or anywhere else and said "I'm surprised that no one has bought this story up. For those of you who don't know Dick Martin was the White teenager from Florida who was murdered in cold blood by a black guy who claimed that he was doing a neighboorhood watch and it was self defense despite all of the evidence saying otherwise. There have so far been no arrests in the case and the FBI has taken over the investigation." If the guy ended up not being black, I would have been labeled a racist. On the other hand, if the shoe fits wear it. You get no do over from me, I understand who and what you are. Sir, again, thank you for playing...

AUTaxMan
03-29-2012, 05:15 PM
Yes, that is my point. This is the only country that does it. That is what makes thing so hard here. When I file out application I always mark other then write in American.

That's right. habs informed me last week that there are no African-Canadians (although he said there aren't too many blacks of African descent there either).

habsheaven
03-29-2012, 06:14 PM
Actually, in eastern Canada we have a large black population that trace their roots from Africa by way of America and the underground railroad. In out bigger cities like Toronto and Montreal the black population is mostly of Jamaican heritage.

At the end of the day, according to the Bible most of you put your faith in, we are all Iraqis.

AUTaxMan
03-29-2012, 06:27 PM
Actually, in eastern Canada we have a large black population that trace their roots from Africa by way of America and the underground railroad. In out bigger cities like Toronto and Montreal the black population is mostly of Jamaican heritage.

At the end of the day, according to the Bible most of you put your faith in, we are all Iraqis.

Persians.

DunkingDurant35
03-29-2012, 06:34 PM
After he already received medical treatment. Lovely close up grainy shots in that video by the way with the news logo covering his head anyways half of it. I guess the cops just lied in the report to cover up the shooting. You have a witness who confirms Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his face and slamming his head into the concrete. I guess that's not enough.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martins-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight.php

If nothing else, this case turns up more and more curiosities, few of which are in favor of Zimmerman's account.

AUTaxMan
03-29-2012, 06:51 PM
http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martins-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight.php

If nothing else, this case turns up more and more curiosities, few of which are in favor of Zimmerman's account.

Where do they get this?

"Zimmerman also did not have any cuts or bruises on him the day of the murder, though sources say he was treated before being brought to the police station."

It is directly contradicted by the police report.


Also, I wouldn't consider the funeral director's testimony on the issue unbiased, since he is being paid by the family. The coroner's report would be the best evidence on that issue.

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 10:36 PM
Wow, this thread is long!

The crazy thing about this case is the mis-information. I sat in a restaurant just two days ago and two ladies were saying it was a cop or an under-cover cop that shot Martin as he was running away. People spread information without any facts. I thought this article summed up this very well: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

The facts are an independent witness saw Martin pounding Zimmereman and the 9-11 tapes clearing show Zimmerman screaming for his life for 45-60 seconds. I don't know about you, but if a guy is beating me unconscious and I have a gun, I'm going to use it regardless of his race, sex, religion, etc.

People like Spike Lee give send an address to 200k people and not get in trouble. What if the old couple was killed? They already had to move from their home: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/spike-lees-twitter-mistake/2012/03/29/gIQAKgujjS_blog.html

Another problem is with the Black Panthers putting out a hit.

This week their were several children killed by gun violence, to include a child killed by a drive bye where 40+ bullets were shot. But because they were not sensational stories we don't hear about it. Here is one of them: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-18/news/ct-met-girl-shot-dead-0318-20120318_1_drive-by-shooting-chicago-police-police-officer

I was personally called a racists on my Facebook page because I stated that people shouldn't jump to conclusions and we need to hear all the evidence. I didn't jump on the band wagon and join hoody marches in my city so I was called out.

It's a sicken case. The true victims in this case are Martin (dead), Zimmerman (not getting a fair trial, hunted by the Black Panthers) and Martin's family (lost their loved one). People have lost sight of that. Zimmerman is also a victim because he is getting tried by a jury on the internet with limited information. I found it funny that the same people that swore OJ was innocent with a mile of evidence are now convicting Zimmerman with the very little evidence, and even that evidence points to self defense (witness collaborative Zimmerman's story).

If it is true that Martin punched and then stomped Zimmerman for 45 seconds, it was justifiable self defense. If he is getting kicked unconscious, no man or women should hope that when they are unconscious the attacker will stop. The same people that are stating that Zimmerman had no right to follow Martin have yet to say that Martin had NO RIGHT to be beating a man for 50-60 seconds while he is screaming for his life.

In my view Zimmerman should get parole. His life is changed forever. The ironic part is that thanks to his conviction on the internet, he will be assaulted or killed in a racially motivated way, but it won't be a hate crime because he's "White Hispanic". The media will cover it and bear much of the responsibility for any assault that happens to him.

theonedru
03-29-2012, 10:42 PM
Wow, this thread is long!

The crazy thing about this case is the mis-information. I sat in a restaurant just two days ago and two ladies were saying it was a cop or an under-cover cop that shot Martin as he was running away. People spread information without any facts. I thought this article summed up this very well: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

The facts are an independent witness saw Martin pounding Zimmereman and the 9-11 tapes clearing show Zimmerman screaming for his life for 45-60 seconds. I don't know about you, but if a guy is beating me unconscious and I have a gun, I'm going to use it regardless of his race, sex, religion, etc.

People like Spike Lee give send an address to 200k people and not get in trouble. What if the old couple was killed? They already had to move from their home: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/spike-lees-twitter-mistake/2012/03/29/gIQAKgujjS_blog.html

Another problem is with the Black Panthers putting out a hit.

This week their were several children killed by gun violence, to include a child killed by a drive bye where 40+ bullets were shot. But because they were not sensational stories we don't hear about it. Here is one of them: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-18/news/ct-met-girl-shot-dead-0318-20120318_1_drive-by-shooting-chicago-police-police-officer

I was personally called a racists on my Facebook page because I stated that people shouldn't jump to conclusions and we need to hear all the evidence. I didn't jump on the band wagon and join hoody marches in my city so I was called out.

It's a sicken case. The true victims in this case are Martin (dead), Zimmerman (not getting a fair trial, hunted by the Black Panthers) and Martin's family (lost their loved one). People have lost sight of that. Zimmerman is also a victim because he is getting tried by a jury on the internet with limited information. I found it funny that the same people that swore OJ was innocent with a mile of evidence are now convicting Zimmerman with the very little evidence, and even that evidence points to self defense (witness collaborative Zimmerman's story).

If it is true that Martin punched and then stomped Zimmerman for 45 seconds, it was justifiable self defense. If he is getting kicked unconscious, no man or women should hope that when they are unconscious the attacker will stop. The same people that are stating that Zimmerman had no right to follow Martin have yet to say that Martin had NO RIGHT to be beating a man for 50-60 seconds while he is screaming for his life.

In my view Zimmerman should get parole. His life is changed forever. The ironic part is that thanks to his conviction on the internet, he will be assaulted or killed in a racially motivated way, but it won't be a hate crime because he's "White Hispanic". The media will cover it and bear much of the responsibility for any assault that happens to him.

If it is true that Martin punched and then stomped Zimmerman for 45 seconds, it was justifiable self defense.

What if martin was doing this in self defense of what Zimmerman was doing to him? Lord knows If I had some wanna be cop with past issues and a gun after me I would defend myself without end. Should martin have been killed for rightfully defending himself from an altercation that never should have happened?

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 10:47 PM
You'd think if Zimmerman had it in his mind just to shoot TRayvon and had the gun drawn, he would have done so before he started getting beat on. And I can say if someone had a gun drawn on me, I wouldn't go attacking them because they'd drop me with a bullet before I even got off a punch.

theonedru
03-29-2012, 10:50 PM
Zimmermans downfall will be that he followed the kid after being informed not to. Any decent lawyer will rip the guy apart after that

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 10:51 PM
What if martin was doing this in self defense of what Zimmerman was doing to him?

That is the problem. We are missing a full minute, but these are the facts:

1. The police report states Zimmerman had a wet back, bloody nose and lacerations.
2. The independent witnesses heard on the 9-11 recording state that Martin was beating Zimmerman and Zimmerman was screaming. Listen to the 9-11 call and it sounds like Zimmerman feared for his life. He was screaming like he was being eating by a Zombie. He had the cuts and bruises to prove it.

Lord knows If I had some wanna be cop with past issues and a gun after me I
would defend myself without end.

There is no evidence to prove that Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun. Do you think he would have turned and attacked a man with a gun? Would you if you had some distance?


Should martin have been killed for rightfully defending himself from an altercation that never should have happened?

Does Zimmerman have a right to should someone that is beating him unconscious? Or should he just take the beating and hope that he isn't killed? All the evidence points to Zimmerman getting beat for nearly 60 seconds. Listen to the tape and the interview of the witnesses.

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 10:53 PM
Zimmermans downfall will be that he followed the kid after being informed not to. Any decent lawyer will rip the guy apart after that

Not true. Read the police report. He states that when he was told to stop, he did and headed to his SUV. He states that martin came up from behind and said, "Do you have a problem?" and Zimerman stated, "no" and reached for his phone. He states Martin said, "well now you do" and punched him, knocking him down and then stomping his face and head. Then listen to the 9-11 tape of Zimmerman screaming for help for nearly 60 seconds.

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 10:55 PM
Here is the audio of Zimmerman screaming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WI4x2JPcOA

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 10:56 PM
Here is the man in the 9-11 call with his wife:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDBqvEauYU

BGT Masters
03-29-2012, 11:11 PM
I just listened to the 9-11 call places by a woman and you can hear someone screaming for help in the background, for awhile then you hear a gun shot. Couple that with the eye witness interview/video above its pretty hard to argue Trayvon wasn't on top of Zimmerman beating him.

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 11:25 PM
I just listened to the 9-11 call places by a woman and you can hear someone screaming for help in the background, for awhile then you hear a gun shot. Couple that with the eye witness interview/video above its pretty hard to argue Trayvon wasn't on top of Zimmerman beating him.

That video starts with screams already started and the time is about 50 seconds of screams. It could have been much longer.

Also, those screams are "Help me!" over and over and shrieks. Add in the wet back and scrapes, bloody nose and bruises noted by the police report and it make sense that Zimmerman was on his back getting beat for about a minute.

Knowing this, if you had a gun and were getting kicked in the head over and over, would you not use your gun? Would you not be fearing for your life?

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 11:35 PM
Also, there is this:
http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1623273

Doesn't Zimmerman calling so much and NOT shooting anyone actually help his case? I mean he was night watching for so many years and called 9-11 so many times without incident. Then Martin comes along, the evidence suggest he was beating Zimmerman for 60 seconds and is killed.

So, no violence with Zimmerman for so many years and so many calls until that night. I think that actually supports Zimmerman's case, no?

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 11:35 PM
Also, there is this:
http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1623273

Doesn't Zimmerman calling so much and NOT shooting anyone actually help his case? I mean he was night watching for so many years and called 9-11 so many times without incident. Then Martin comes along, the evidence suggest he was beating Zimmerman for 60 seconds and is killed.

So, no violence with Zimmerman for so many years and so many calls until that night. I think that actually supports Zimmerman's case, no?

tutall
03-29-2012, 11:46 PM
Let's do this. Let all of us walk around an affluent neighborhood late at night and see which one us gets called and african american if you know what I mean. :winking0071:

As much as you want to say things like this I know there are places I am not welcome either... Face it... Its America... There is a park I would love to play ball at but the one time I actually stopped to play as soon as I stepped on the court I knew I was not welcome...

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 11:55 PM
Let's do this. Let all of us walk around an affluent neighborhood late at night and see which one us gets called and african american if you know what I mean.

Here is an article I wrote when I was stationed in Hawaii. Pre-med White student killed for being White on a local Beach:

http://www.hawaiitopia.com/2008/07/02/killed-for-being-hoale/%

Hawaii homes cost around $400k on average.

mikesilvia
03-29-2012, 11:56 PM
Another one where local hits found white kids to beat in school: http://www.hawaiitopia.com/2008/04/18/haole-what-does-it-mean/%

Racism is found in all races. None have a monopoly.

lloydr04
03-29-2012, 11:58 PM
^^ You're right


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Liwd-AjsLpU

tutall
03-29-2012, 11:58 PM
Also regarding the hoodie.. I work in a field known for robberies to occur... It may be profiling but you can bet your life when someone walks into the store with a hood up or sunglasses on when it isnt sunny out I am on alert and watching every move.

mikesilvia
03-30-2012, 12:13 AM
Also regarding the hoodie.. I work in a field known for robberies to occur... It may be profiling but you can bet your life when someone walks into the store with a hood up or sunglasses on when it isnt sunny out I am on alert and watching every move.

Not only that, people stereo type appearance all the time. If I asked someone who would likely be a criminal?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zy3G6l7nL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIYp6VXF7pY53Vf_3vwZ5xBZCThvMxK VcFy74WgAR9O6drhKLPwzBu6lZXNg

Most will pick the guy with the tattoos without knowing anything about the two. Regardless of what people say, we all stereotype.

meuandthelot
03-30-2012, 12:52 AM
All things aside
One thing is for sure...

We SHOULD NOT be fueling MORE HATRED, more division.

But sadly, the majority of emotion being put forth is hatred, racially motivated at that, lets keep the division strong :(
Sad

PS:
Mike has posted some great stereotype, jump to conclusion type examples, as have others.
This thread has more level headed/neutrality than most I've seen.

Star_Cards
03-30-2012, 09:58 AM
Also, there is this:
http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1623273

Doesn't Zimmerman calling so much and NOT shooting anyone actually help his case? I mean he was night watching for so many years and called 9-11 so many times without incident. Then Martin comes along, the evidence suggest he was beating Zimmerman for 60 seconds and is killed.

So, no violence with Zimmerman for so many years and so many calls until that night. I think that actually supports Zimmerman's case, no?

I think it does. I think it probably shows that while he has interest in neighbor hood watch (obviously withe 42 calls in a few years) that he really wasn't out to take the law into his own hands. Even if he followed trayvon that doesn't mean trayvon has the right to attack him, which has been discussed as the most likely pattern of events that night.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 12:08 PM
i could not imagine being a member of trayvon's family, they must be heartborken at the least.

i could also not imagine being zimmerman, IF he felt his life was threatened, called out for help and no one came, then had to do the last thing he wanted to to save his own life, which was shooting someone.

if he was trigger happy, trayvon would have been shot upon confronting him, not after attacking him.

mrveggieman
03-30-2012, 12:10 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/george-zimmermans-crumbling-story-part-3-the-detective/2012/03/29/gIQA3NvAjS_blog.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 12:21 PM
actually this can show that trayvon was not attacked, he did the attacking, just depends on how you spin it.

and when has a FD ever been involved in a murder case?

AUTaxMan
03-30-2012, 12:41 PM
So the legal expert (the state attorney) says there's not enough evidence, and the lead investigator still wants to investigate? Isn't that his job? Why is that news?

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 03:56 PM
so the legal expert (the state attorney) says there's not enough evidence, and the lead investigator still wants to investigate? Isn't that his job? Why is that news?
+1

mikesilvia
03-30-2012, 04:13 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/george-zimmermans-crumbling-story-part-3-the-detective/2012/03/29/gIQA3NvAjS_blog.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop
Then, the mortician who prepared Trayvon’s body for burial told MSNBC last night that the 17-year-old’s body didn’t show any signs of violence to support Zimmerman’s account.

This make no sense at all. Outside of a bullet hole, there shouldn't be any damage to Martin. Zimmerman has scrapes and bruises and Martin did not. That yet again re-enforces Zimmerman's case that he was the one getting beat on, which was confirmed by the 9-11 witness and the 911 audio of Zimmerman screaming.

It's funny how people spin "Zimmerman made tons of 9-11 calls, thus is a racists" and "Martin had no damage to his body besides the bullet wound thus their was no struggle." Because Zimmerman made so many calls and NEVER had an incident shows that he always reported and never attacked anyone physically until meeting Martin. Then with no damage to Martin's body shows that Zimmerman was in fact NOT beating Martin as people claimed the screams on the 9-11 call were Martin screaming.

That blog shows yet again that people will attempt to spin the facts to their agenda. Take out emotion and agenda and these facts re-inforce Zimmerman's claims of self-defense.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 04:14 PM
This make no sense at all. Outside of a bullet hole, there shouldn't be any damage to Martin. Zimmerman has scrapes and bruises and Martin did not. That yet again re-enforces Zimmerman's case that he was the one getting beat on, which was confirmed by the 9-11 witness and the 911 audio of Zimmerman screaming.

It's funny how people spin "Zimmerman made tons of 9-11 calls, thus is a racists" and "Martin had no damage to his body besides the bullet wound thus their was no struggle." Because Zimmerman made so many calls and NEVER had an incident shows that he always reported and never attacked anyone physically until meeting Martin. Then with no damage to Martin's body shows that Zimmerman was in fact NOT beating Martin as people claimed the screams on the 9-11 call were Martin screaming.

That blog shows yet again that people will attempt to spin the facts to their agenda. Take out emotion and agenda and these facts re-inforce Zimmerman's claims of self-defense.
Where on Earth do you get that?

mikesilvia
03-30-2012, 04:17 PM
Where on Earth do you get that?

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1623273

Notice the title? This is all over the media. They try to state that he called over and over on black males thus is a racists.

BGT Masters
03-30-2012, 04:17 PM
This make no sense at all. Outside of a bullet hole, there shouldn't be any damage to Martin. Zimmerman has scrapes and bruises and Martin did not. That yet again re-enforces Zimmerman's case that he was the one getting beat on, which was confirmed by the 9-11 witness and the 911 audio of Zimmerman screaming.

It's funny how people spin "Zimmerman made tons of 9-11 calls, thus is a racists" and "Martin had no damage to his body besides the bullet wound thus their was no struggle." Because Zimmerman made so many calls and NEVER had an incident shows that he always reported and never attacked anyone physically until meeting Martin. Then with no damage to Martin's body shows that Zimmerman was in fact NOT beating Martin as people claimed the screams on the 9-11 call were Martin screaming.

That blog shows yet again that people will attempt to spin the facts to their agenda. Take out emotion and agenda and these facts re-inforce Zimmerman's claims of self-defense.

How dare you rationalize something and make it so simple to understand. Shame on you. Take away all the media spin, remove race and just look at the facts that have been presented so far.

DunkingDurant35
03-30-2012, 04:19 PM
I think everyone should read AUTaxMan's post on the Jeb Bush thread so we can re-familiarize ourselves with the facts:

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showpost.php?p=11305878&postcount=39

Pretty much everything beyond that is speculation. I gave my reasons why I have been taking Martin's side in the following post:

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showpost.php?p=11306393&postcount=79

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 04:20 PM
mike, great post, but as you can see, it won't matter, because are afraid of fact finding, or perhaps they are just too lazy to look for themselves

habsheaven
03-30-2012, 06:06 PM
I think everyone should read AUTaxMan's post on the Jeb Bush thread so we can re-familiarize ourselves with the facts:

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showpost.php?p=11305878&postcount=39

Pretty much everything beyond that is speculation. I gave my reasons why I have been taking Martin's side in the following post:

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showpost.php?p=11306393&postcount=79

#9 in that post is speculation. No one witnessed Martin initiating an attack on Zimmerman.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 06:16 PM
their was a witness who came forward and said he did, and he was the one who made one of the calls to 911 that night

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 06:20 PM
I think you mixed up that quote...

AUTaxMan
03-30-2012, 11:08 PM
#9 in that post is speculation. No one witnessed Martin initiating an attack on Zimmerman.

which is why i began it with zimmerman says

Wickabee
03-31-2012, 12:45 AM
http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1623273

Notice the title? This is all over the media. They try to state that he called over and over on black males thus is a racists.
Nowhere does it say his making calls to 911 means he's a racist. It says he made repeated calls to 911 specifically about blacks.
That's two different things, man.

habsheaven
03-31-2012, 08:22 AM
which is why i began it with zimmerman says

I understand that but my contention is that stating anything Zimmerman has to say in a "statement of facts" is not right. He cannot be considered anything but biased.

mikesilvia
03-31-2012, 08:43 AM
Nowhere does it say his making calls to 911 means he's a racist. It says he made repeated calls to 911 specifically about blacks.
That's two different things, man.

Are you honestly going to tell me that people are not stating that he made so many 9-11 calls on African Americans only because they were black? I've seen it at least 5 times a day on TV or in articles. People are saying Zimmerman is a racists for even following Martin and is racists because he only calls 9-11 blacks. None of that is proven, but you will hear Sharpton, Spike Lee and hundreds of people make that the case.

gladdyontherise
03-31-2012, 09:11 AM
Are you honestly going to tell me that people are not stating that he made so many 9-11 calls on African Americans only because they were black? I've seen it at least 5 times a day on TV or in articles. People are saying Zimmerman is a racists for even following Martin and is racists because he only calls 9-11 blacks. None of that is proven, but you will hear Sharpton, Spike Lee and hundreds of people make that the case.

Look at the names you just listed, especially Sharpton, who is clearly a racist himself who tries to act like "the man is against us".

Anything Sharpton, Jackson etc say holds zero credibility.

tsjct
03-31-2012, 10:05 AM
I wish Sharpton, Jackson, Lee, and the black panthers would go down to the Border town of Laredo, Tx and protest there. I think the Mexico Drug cartel would love to see them down there protesting. I do not see that happening but it would be fun to watch.

AUTaxMan
03-31-2012, 10:56 AM
I understand that but my contention is that stating anything Zimmerman has to say in a "statement of facts" is not right. He cannot be considered anything but biased.

I understand and agree. I just wanted his side of the story on the record.

mikesilvia
03-31-2012, 04:21 PM
Remember how the media stated the police video shows Zimmerman unharmed? Yet again, they didn't do their research.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

DunkingDurant35
04-01-2012, 10:23 AM
It does certainly look possible there is an injury there.

It is also certainly possible the screaming was not Zimmerman's. Witnesses say one thing, but voice experts and technology say another:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/say_not_zimmerman_crying_for_help_pgBCAe0nrfakDLCY J4JuwN

Of course, this is still all speculation either way. Wouldn't it be nice if we had an actual video of the fight to see if shooting in self-defense was justified. Neither witnesses nor audio experts are 100% concrete proof either for or against ZImmerman's claims.

AUTaxMan
04-01-2012, 10:31 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if we had an actual video of the fight to see if shooting in self-defense was justified. Neither witnesses nor audio experts are 100% concrete proof either for or against ZImmerman's claims.

That's just how it is in most cases. Police work is hard.

INTIMADATOR2007
04-01-2012, 11:36 AM
Heres all the info including all 911 calls and police reports from the sanford police dept.


http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

AUTaxMan
04-01-2012, 12:57 PM
Heres all the info including all 911 calls and police reports from the sanford police dept.


http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

The only one of those 911 calls worth listening to is the first one. The rest don't provide anything to the analysis of the case.

mikesilvia
04-01-2012, 03:22 PM
WOW!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6


Great news right there. As exposed by Fox News and media watchdog site NewsBusters, the “Today” segment took this approach to a key part of the dispatcher call:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

Here’s how the actual conversation went down:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.

The difference between what “Today” put on its air and the actual tape? Complete: In the “Today” version, Zimmerman volunteered that this person “looks black,” a sequence of events that would more readily paint Zimmerman as a racial profiler. In reality’s version, Zimmerman simply answered a question about the race of the person whom he was reporting to the police. Nothing prejudicial at all in responding to such an inquiry.

AUTaxMan
04-01-2012, 03:25 PM
WOW!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

Saw that this morning. That's just flat out lying to fit your agenda.

mikesilvia
04-01-2012, 04:35 PM
Another witness report confirms Zimmerman got beat: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012

theonedru
04-01-2012, 04:36 PM
" This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something."

This is pretty prejudicial would you not say, as soon as he saw the kid he already tagged him as a troublemaker without any rational other than " It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. "

Heck I don't mind walking around in the rain it doesn't bother me, does that make me a troublemaker deserving of death?

hawk2618
04-01-2012, 04:42 PM
Once again the media messes up to attract attention......stunner!!!!!!

INTIMADATOR2007
04-01-2012, 05:14 PM
The only one of those 911 calls worth listening to is the first one. The rest don't provide anything to the analysis of the case.

The first one shows that when zimmerman was told to not chase him , it sounds as if zimmerman did go to his truck and not after martin. And the police reports prove that Zimmerman was treated for injuries at the scene . The Media owes the zimmerman family a slew of apologies with all the straight up Lies told .

INTIMADATOR2007
04-01-2012, 05:15 PM
" This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something."

This is pretty prejudicial would you not say, as soon as he saw the kid he already tagged him as a troublemaker without any rational other than " It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. "

Heck I don't mind walking around in the rain it doesn't bother me, does that make me a troublemaker deserving of death?

Zimmerman clearly says he's looking around houses , that would be suspiciuos wouldn't it and up to no good .

theonedru
04-01-2012, 09:23 PM
Zimmerman clearly says he's looking around houses , that would be suspiciuos wouldn't it and up to no good .

It's what Zimmerman claimed, doesn't mean it was true.....

AUTaxMan
04-02-2012, 12:16 AM
It's what Zimmerman claimed, doesn't mean it was true.....

He sounds pretty convincing on the call if he is lying. Based solely on that call, it is much easier to draw the conclusion that Zimmerman was not racially motivated than to draw the conclusion that he was.

mikesilvia
04-02-2012, 08:20 AM
Apparently, more and more people are understand the facts. A high profile rally that was expected to bring in 75,000 people only brought in 3,000. Looks like people are finally getting the message.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/01/massive-trayvon-martin-rally-set-for-sunday-in-bayfront-park-2/

NY Sports Teams
04-10-2012, 01:02 AM
Just another example of the good ole liberal media trying to incite racism with their bias reporting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72zJvVQWutA&feature=g-logo&context=G2218ba1FOAAAAAAAAAA

...Rick

duane1969
04-11-2012, 10:36 AM
Just to follow up, the special prosecutor appointed to look into this has declined to convene a grand jury. This does not mean that charges can/will not be brought against Zimmerman, just that she...

mrveggieman
04-11-2012, 03:57 PM
If this guy is as innocent as some of ya'll claim that he is why is the state going to file charges against him? <br />
<br />
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/official-charges-coming-in-1413280.html

BGT Masters
04-11-2012, 04:06 PM
To shut up all of those racist hate groups who keep harrassing them would be my guess. Like some ignorant people seem to forget, you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. They are trying to avoid riots by hoodlums. In that same article I also read how someone, close to where Trayvon was shot, put a couple bullets through a cruiser window. No matter how dumb and ignorant some people are in this country. If you're loud enough and there are enough of you, you have to be heard, not because you're right, but for fear of what you might do.

mrveggieman
04-11-2012, 04:08 PM
To shut up all of those racist hate groups who keep harrassing them would be my guess. Like some ignorant people seem to forget, you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. They are trying to avoid riots by hoodlums. In that same article I also read how someone, close to where Trayvon was shot, put a couple bullets through a cruiser window. No matter how dumb and ignorant some people are in this country. If you're loud enough and there are enough of you, you have to be heard, not because you're right, but for fear of what you might do.


Dude are you serious? If that's the case then black people would be back in bondage because of the wishes of racist hate groups. Please try again.

BGT Masters
04-11-2012, 04:11 PM
I should have specified. I meant the hate groups who are black and who would have lynched Zimmerman by now if they had it their way. Sorry for the confusion.

Please try again. Thanks for playing. Church, or whatever idiotic thing you say after your posts that for some reason you think make you right all the time.

gladdyontherise
04-11-2012, 05:42 PM
Breaking: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-04-11-17-36-57

AUTaxMan
04-11-2012, 05:51 PM
Good. Now there is nothing to complain about, right?

habsheaven
04-11-2012, 06:31 PM
Prosecutors lay charges based on FACTS. There are obviously FACTS that they have that the public doesn't. I was very impressed by Angela Corey's press conference. I think justice is in good hands...

boba
04-11-2012, 06:53 PM
Just something I was thinking about.

Were are all the Latina - Hispanic power people?

My dads side of the family are mostly all Hispanic power people, in fact my Aunt is a Hispanic defense lawyer or, she only defends Hispanics or something like that.

They are always posting stuff on their facebook about injustices that Hispanics go through, but they haven't posted one thing supporting Zimmerman. In fact, I haven't seen any of these people supporting Zimmerman anywhere. I wonder if this would be different if the same had happed but Trayvon was white?

ensbergcollector
04-11-2012, 07:00 PM
go figure if you give the police and investigators time to do their job, they will do their job. Good thing no one rallied thousands of race baiters and no one put out bounties and no one tried to claim racism where their wasn't any. that would have been embarrassing.

habsheaven
04-11-2012, 07:29 PM
go figure if you give the police and investigators time to do their job, they will do their job. Good thing no one rallied thousands of race baiters and no one put out bounties and no one tried to claim racism where their wasn't any. that would have been embarrassing.

To be fair, the local sheriff stated that there were no grounds to arrest Zimmerman weeks ago. That is when the uproar began. This shooting happened on Feb 26, we did not get wind of it until the sheriff made his statements (I believe a few weeks later).

AUTaxMan
04-11-2012, 08:47 PM
To be fair, the local sheriff stated that there were no grounds to arrest Zimmerman weeks ago. That is when the uproar began. This shooting happened on Feb 26, we did not get wind of it until the sheriff made his statements (I believe a few weeks later).

The uproar didn't begin until the Martin's lawyer told Reuters in a story released on March 7 that Zimmerman was white. From that point on, the media ran with it.

jlzinck
04-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Good God did you see this woman when the presser started??? She could hardly contain her joy! There is NOTHING heartwarming or happy about anything in this case. It was disgusting

mikesilvia
04-11-2012, 09:22 PM
The media creates these stories for profit, pure and simple. Tons of people died since this case, many in more horrendous ways. The media pushes out cases like this because it will drive ratings and...

habsheaven
04-11-2012, 09:42 PM
Good God did you see this woman when the presser started??? She could hardly contain her joy! There is NOTHING heartwarming or happy about anything in this case. It was disgusting

I did notice that, and mentioned it to my wife. However as the press conference went on I noticed that she was expressing similar joy as she talked about the role of the prosecution and justice in general.

habsheaven
04-11-2012, 09:45 PM
The scary part is that you are now judging the prosecutor without knowing what she knows.

mikesilvia
04-11-2012, 10:05 PM
The scary part is that you are now judging the prosecutor without knowing what she knows.

Really? That scares you? Maybe I should send out a Twitter message with her address and really turn up the heat. :)

habsheaven
04-11-2012, 10:08 PM
Really? That scares you? Maybe I should send out a Twitter message with her address and really turn up the heat. :)

No, it doesn't really scare me. It's typical behaviour for most of the posters on here. I am used to it by now. :)

mikesilvia
04-11-2012, 10:14 PM
True! <br />
<br />
I did state that I &quot;felt&quot; it was politically motivated. I'm not certain. Unlike all the &quot;Zimmerman needs to be dead&quot; chanters out there, I'm making my opinion known based on facts, not...

ensbergcollector
04-11-2012, 10:16 PM
The scary part is that you are now judging the prosecutor without knowing what she knows.

were you scared by all the people judging zimmerman when facts weren't known?

habsheaven
04-11-2012, 10:27 PM
were you scared by all the people judging zimmerman when facts weren't known?

No, as I said, it is to be expected around here. You can check all my posts in the thread. I haven't judged Zimmerman or Martin.

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 08:06 AM
were you scared by all the people judging zimmerman when facts weren't known?


I was concerned about all of the conservatives who tried to paint Trayvon as a two bit drug dealing street thug that deserved to die.

shrewsbury
04-12-2012, 08:33 AM
being a street thug and deserving to die are two different things.

the 2 biggest unknowns here are; who was screaming for their life on the 911 call and what the conversation was with trayvon and his gf with their call (was never released, that i know of)

there have already been mobs, so if zimmerman is not found guilty, we will be back to the OJ days

duane1969
04-12-2012, 08:36 AM
As the AP article points out, proving 2nd degree murder will be dang near impossible. I think that Zimmerman was charged with 2nd degree murder as a happy medium. By charging him they appease the...

duane1969
04-12-2012, 08:37 AM
there have already been mobs, so if zimmerman is not found guilty, we will be back to the OJ days

More like the Rodney King days.

Star_Cards
04-12-2012, 08:39 AM
I agree. I don't see Zimmerman being found guilty. There's just too much needed and while they may have unreleased facts, the evidence that we have now just doesn't seem to point to an unreasonable...

tsjct
04-12-2012, 08:41 AM
Zimmerman will NOT get a fair trial as the media has tainted it to much. CNN, NBC, and other Mainstream media have found Zimmerman guilty. He is DONE. If for some reason he is found not guilty and the THUG MOBS, Black Panther's, Etc want to start rioting in the streets and taking it out on the Whites which had nothing to do with this i say LET them bring it on. I am so tired of having to watch everything i say or do to appease the ones that keep going back 400 years as if they were there. Its time for the Whites/Hispanics/Etc to start standing up for our race like the blacks stand up for theirs. I say we need a Strong Spokesman to show up every time a BLACK man kills a White/Hispanic/ETC and make dang sure its tried as a HATE CRIME.

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 08:43 AM
Zimmerman will NOT get a fair trial as the media has tainted it to much. CNN, NBC, and other Mainstream media have found Zimmerman guilty. He is DONE. If for some reason he is found not guilty and the THUG MOBS, Black Panther's, Etc want to start rioting in the streets and taking it out on the Whites which had nothing to do with this i say LET them bring it on. I am so tired of having to watch everything i say or do to appease the ones that keep going back 400 years as if they were there. Its time for the Whites/Hispanics/Etc to start standing up for our race like the blacks stand up for theirs. I say we need a Strong Spokesman to show up every time a BLACK man kills a White/Hispanic/ETC and make dang sure its tried as a HATE CRIME.


You already do. Pick your favorite news commentator on Fox or better yet go to rush. :winking0071:

pghin08
04-12-2012, 08:44 AM
Zimmerman will NOT get a fair trial as the media has tainted it to much. CNN, NBC, and other Mainstream media have found Zimmerman guilty. He is DONE. If for some reason he is found not guilty and the THUG MOBS, Black Panther's, Etc want to start rioting in the streets and taking it out on the Whites which had nothing to do with this i say LET them bring it on. I am so tired of having to watch everything i say or do to appease the ones that keep going back 400 years as if they were there. Its time for the Whites/Hispanics/Etc to start standing up for our race like the blacks stand up for theirs. I say we need a Strong Spokesman to show up every time a BLACK man kills a White/Hispanic/ETC and make dang sure its tried as a HATE CRIME.

I disagree. The media always paints the suspect as guilty until proven innocent, but our courts still treat the person as innocent until proven guilty.

tsjct
04-12-2012, 08:48 AM
You already do. Pick your favorite news commentator on Fox or better yet go to rush. :winking0071:

I mean TAKE A REAL stance and show up when a BLACK man kills an innocent White person. But i know that will never happen as its not a hate crime for a black man to kill a white man. Its only a hate crime when a white/hispanic person kills a black man. I am ready to stand up to the BS and call it what it is. A COMPLETE PILE OF crap. This case should fire up the White/Hispanic people like no other.

tsjct
04-12-2012, 08:51 AM
You already do. Pick your favorite news commentator on Fox or better yet go to rush. :winking0071:

And since you brought up FOX. Please post a video/article or whatever you can find that has taken sides on this case.

shrewsbury
04-12-2012, 08:54 AM
rush is a paid radio personality, and not a spokesman for any race
foxx is about making $$$, they don't represent "the whites"

the kkk is hated by more whites than blacks (because there are more whites)

anyone who did try to stand up and start pointing this stuff out would be labeled a racist and have a bounty on them quicker than you can blink your eyes

mikesilvia
04-12-2012, 09:07 AM
A simple question to ask is if you or I 1) made a statement in the news, placing a bounty on a persons head or 2) sent out the address of someone with a bounty on their head to 300k people, what...

mikesilvia
04-12-2012, 09:09 AM
I'm also curious how Zimmerman's right to a grand jury got waived. I don't know all the rules, but doesn't he deserve to be indicted by a grand jury to show this is not politically motivated?

habsheaven
04-12-2012, 09:10 AM
Not sure if we would have been actually charged, but I am sure there would have been a HUGE uproar about it. Unfortunately, that is the world we live in.

habsheaven
04-12-2012, 09:11 AM
I'm also curious how Zimmerman's right to a grand jury got waived. I don't know all the rules, but doesn't he deserve to be indicted by a grand jury to show this is not politically motivated?

He has no right to a grand jury. That is completely up to the prosecution.

Theodor Madison
04-12-2012, 09:24 AM
From, what I see this has been pretty much a national lynch mob. If Casey got away with murder, surely Zimmerman is innocent.

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 09:32 AM
From, what I see this has been pretty much a national lynch mob. If Casey got away with murder, surely Zimmerman is innocent.


That's the thing that really concern's me. If the people of Florida are so heartless they can let a woman who killed her own child get off no telling what they do with the Trayvon case.

mikesilvia
04-12-2012, 10:51 AM
Don't you think it would re-enforce that this is not political? Almost all high profile cases get indictments first and it is required for all &quot;capital and infamous crimes&quot; Federal cases. <br />
<br />
The...

mikesilvia
04-12-2012, 11:22 AM
I have DEEP respect for Martin's mom. Her statements re-enforce my claim that 2nd degree murder will be hard to prove. Even her mom thinks it was an accident. <br />
...

habsheaven
04-12-2012, 11:33 AM
I agree with you.

duwal
04-12-2012, 03:04 PM
That's the thing that really concern's me. If the people of Florida are so heartless they can let a woman who killed her own child get off no telling what they do with the Trayvon case.


especially since it isn't quite clear how much Trayvon attacked Zimmerman

mikesilvia
04-12-2012, 06:52 PM
I agree with you.

:hug:

shrewsbury
04-12-2012, 07:26 PM
what's with all this crazy agreement stuff?!!!!!

i would like to know if she has used the GJ for lesser crimes

mikesilvia
04-17-2012, 06:00 AM
Several more neighbors have come out.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE83F19Y20120416

habsheaven
04-17-2012, 07:52 AM
I will reserve judgement on all of these eye-witness accounts. My question is this: If Zimmerman has these injuries from the altercation, where are the pictures that should exist of them? Trust me, if I just shot someone the night before because I was being roughed up, I would be documenting my injuries for all to see. I would not be relying on my neighbors to notice bandages on my person in the days after to substaniate my case.

duane1969
04-17-2012, 08:47 AM
I will reserve judgement on all of these eye-witness accounts. My question is this: If Zimmerman has these injuries from the altercation, where are the pictures that should exist of them? Trust me, if I just shot someone the night before because I was being roughed up, I would be documenting my injuries for all to see. I would not be relying on my neighbors to notice bandages on my person in the days after to substaniate my case.

That is one of the things that mainstream media is not being criticized enough for. They released the first 20 or 30 seconds of the video of Zimmerman getting out of the police car and said that it showed no evidence of him having a broken nose or injuries. What they didn't show was the next 20 or 30 seconds that showed an officer examining injuries on the back of his head or the section of video which does appear to show injuries and blood and corroborate previous claims that Martin was on top of Zimmerman bashing his head onto the concrete.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/eg8m9.jpg

http://media.katu.com/images/120402_george_zimmerman_gash_405.jpg

habsheaven
04-17-2012, 10:24 AM
That is one of the things that mainstream media is not being criticized enough for. They released the first 20 or 30 seconds of the video of Zimmerman getting out of the police car and said that it showed no evidence of him having a broken nose or injuries. What they didn't show was the next 20 or 30 seconds that showed an officer examining injuries on the back of his head or the section of video which does appear to show injuries and blood and corroborate previous claims that Martin was on top of Zimmerman bashing his head onto the concrete.



http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/eg8m9.jpg

http://media.katu.com/images/120402_george_zimmerman_gash_405.jpg

CNN, right from the start, showed the FULL video, including everything you mentioned above. The commentary even mentions the officer examining the back of his head. And for the record, I am talking about actual photos (you know, the kind of self-portraits you see all over the net), those arm-length shots.

duane1969
04-17-2012, 10:27 AM
CNN, right from the start, showed the FULL video, including everything you mentioned above. The commentary even mentions the officer examining the back of his head.

I don't watch CNN much. They repeat the same news over and over and get boring fast, so I missed their feed. MSNBC and the cable news feeds that I saw all just showed Zimmerman getting out of the police car and said that he didn't appear to have a broken nose or show any blood from a broken nose. The closest any of them came to being unbiased was when one commentator pointed out that Zimmerman's coat was red and wouldn't show blood stains.

habsheaven
04-17-2012, 10:40 AM
I don't watch CNN much. They repeat the same news over and over and get boring fast, so I missed their feed. MSNBC and the cable news feeds that I saw all just showed Zimmerman getting out of the police car and said that he didn't appear to have a broken nose or show any blood from a broken nose. The closest any of them came to being unbiased was when one commentator pointed out that Zimmerman's coat was red and wouldn't show blood stains.

You are right. It can get boring fast. Each hourly show repeats the same stories over and over all night unless it is a breaking story. I try to catch an hour a night. That is all you really need to keep up to date on their daily spin.

mikesilvia
04-17-2012, 12:51 PM
The truth is we only have a fraction of the available evidence. I'm certain there are tons of photos that the public has yet to see. There will also be plenty of witnesses. If the police, paramedics,...

tndcollectables
04-17-2012, 12:54 PM
Not just Florida, but maybe the press, Sharpton, Jackson, New Black Panthers, Spike Lee, etc....

mrveggieman
04-17-2012, 12:54 PM
Just like if it was verified that it was indeed Martin screaming on the tape then in addition to a second degree murder conviction against zimmerman then Trayvon's family would have a lawsiut against zimmerman.

AUTaxMan
04-20-2012, 09:37 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-case-exclusive-photo-shows-bloodied-back/story?id=16177849#.T5FmlqsV0Yl

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 10:05 AM
That certainly supports a portion of Zimmerman's claim. It will be interesting to see what else is out there that warranted the prosecution to lay the charge they eventually laid.

mikesilvia
04-20-2012, 10:11 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

shrewsbury
04-20-2012, 10:11 AM
Just like if it was verified that it was indeed Martin screaming on the tape then in addition to a second degree murder conviction against zimmerman then Trayvon's family would have a lawsiut against zimmerman.

if he is convicted of murder is that not enough? personally if it is trayvon screaming on the tape, then zimmerman should get death.

but either way why should the family sue? their son is dead, what is money going to do for that?

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 10:23 AM
if he is convicted of murder is that not enough? personally if it is trayvon screaming on the tape, then zimmerman should get death.

but either way why should the family sue? their son is dead, what is money going to do for that?


I agree that zimmerman should get the death penalty. Also regarding the suing part the money will not bring trayvon back it is pretty much done as a symbolic measure. Zimmerman cowardly took away trayvon's life so he will never be able to have any real money of his own because any assets he aquires will go to trayvon martin's family so in a way he will not have that much of a life because of the one he decided to take away on that faithful night.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 10:33 AM
I agree that zimmerman should get the death penalty. Also regarding the suing part the money will not bring trayvon back it is pretty much done as a symbolic measure. Zimmerman cowardly took away trayvon's life so he will never be able to have any real money of his own because any assets he aquires will go to trayvon martin's family so in a way he will not have that much of a life because of the one he decided to take away on that faithful night.

smh

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 10:42 AM
smh


So I take it that you are ok with adults killing random children and getting away with it?

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 11:04 AM
So I take it that you are ok with adults killing random children and getting away with it?

I would guess he is shaking his head for the same reason I am. No one knows all the facts YET. Comments like yours only add to the problem.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 11:06 AM
I would guess he is shaking his head for the same reason I am. No one knows all the facts YET. Comments like yours only add to the problem.

thank you. we may not agree on much but I will never accuse you of not being rational and having common sense.

AUTaxMan
04-20-2012, 11:18 AM
if he is convicted of murder is that not enough? personally if it is trayvon screaming on the tape, then zimmerman should get death.

but either way why should the family sue? their son is dead, what is money going to do for that?

I don't think you can get death for 2nd degree murder.

AUTaxMan
04-20-2012, 11:20 AM
I would guess he is shaking his head for the same reason I am. No one knows all the facts YET. Comments like yours only add to the problem.

agreed

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 11:33 AM
I don't think you can get death for 2nd degree murder.


You are right 2nd degree murder does not carry a death sentence but that does not change the fact that mudering a child is still wrong.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 11:34 AM
You are right 2nd degree murder does not carry a death sentence but that does not change the fact that mudering a child is still wrong.

and if it is found that zimmerman murdered a young adult then he will pay the price for it

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 11:41 AM
and if it is found that zimmerman murdered a young adult then he will pay the price for it


Agreed. Even if the state does not get him he will still have to explain to God why he did what he did.

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 11:58 AM
Agreed. Even if the state does not get him he will still have to explain to God why he did what he did.

Doesn't God already know?

BGT Masters
04-20-2012, 12:14 PM
I still haven't seen any evidence to support that Zimmerman killed an "innocent child." At worst its manslaughter, I am sure though the bloody head pictures of what some bias people kept claiming was nonexistent doesn't matter.

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 12:14 PM
Doesn't God already know?


Yes he does but zimmerman will still have to stand before him and be judged for the actions that he committed.

duane1969
04-20-2012, 01:38 PM
You are right 2nd degree murder does not carry a death sentence but that does not change the fact that mudering a child is still wrong.


So I take it that you are ok with adults killing random children and getting away with it?

At this point I am going on the assumption that you are

A) Incapable of comprehending what the definition of a child is

and

B) Are either so biased that you can not discuss this isue with any logical capability or are intentionally trying to stir the pot

BGT Masters
04-20-2012, 01:39 PM
At this point I am going on the assumption that you are

A) Incapable of comprehending what the definition of a child is

and

B) Are either so biased that you can not discuss this isue with any logical capability or are intentionally trying to stir the pot

:cheer2:

jlzinck
04-20-2012, 02:48 PM
So if the prosecution had this picture and did not disclose it Zimmerman will walk if it even goes to trial...

Check this out from a "right wing whackjob conservative" lol

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral


After the release of the photo, however, Dershowitz went much further, telling Breitbart News that if the prosecutors did have the photo and didn’t mention it in the affidavit, that would constitute a “grave ethical violation,” since affidavits are supposed to contain “all relevant information.”
Dershowitz continued, “An affidavit that willfully misstates undisputed evidence known to the prosecution is not only unethical but borders on perjury because an affiant swears to tell not only the truth, but the whole truth, and suppressing an important part of the whole truth is a lie."

boba
04-20-2012, 02:55 PM
At this point I am going on the assumption that you are

A) Incapable of comprehending what the definition of a child is

and

B) Are either so biased that you can not discuss this isue with any logical capability or are intentionally trying to stir the pot


CHURCH :love0030:




Sorry, had to do it. :)

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 03:02 PM
So if the prosecution had this picture and did not disclose it Zimmerman will walk if it even goes to trial...

Check this out from a "right wing whackjob conservative" lol

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral


After the release of the photo, however, Dershowitz went much further, telling Breitbart News that if the prosecutors did have the photo and didn’t mention it in the affidavit, that would constitute a “grave ethical violation,” since affidavits are supposed to contain “all relevant information.”
Dershowitz continued, “An affidavit that willfully misstates undisputed evidence known to the prosecution is not only unethical but borders on perjury because an affiant swears to tell not only the truth, but the whole truth, and suppressing an important part of the whole truth is a lie."


There is something wrong with this article. Forget that we don't even know that the prosecution had the photo; an affidavit does not have to lay out the entire case to the defense. That is what discovery is for.

mikesilvia
04-20-2012, 05:41 PM
You are right 2nd degree murder does not carry a death sentence but that does not change the fact that mudering a child is still wrong.

How many children do you know that 1) are over 6 feet tall and 2) stomp grown men for 60 seconds.

Martin was not a 40 lb elementary school kid like you make him out to be.

At 17 years old, I was a golden gloves boxer and could beat up most men at my weight class. To think that a 17 year old in high school is a"child" and can't commit crimes or beat up grown men means to me that you've never lived in an inner city or seen the size of Florida/Texas high school athletes.

gladdyontherise
04-20-2012, 07:51 PM
Can't 17 year old "children" go on trial and be treated as an adult anyhow in court? I mean really, how can you consider Martin a "child"?

Forget that he was 17 and not 18, no random person would look at him and consider him a "child". When I think of a child, I think of someone who is 7, not 17.

mikesilvia
04-21-2012, 12:47 AM
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral

GrimUSMC
05-22-2012, 03:49 PM
There is something wrong with this article. Forget that we don't even know that the prosecution had the photo; an affidavit does not have to lay out the entire case to the defense. That is what discovery is for.

You can argue that, sure.

Also, it is an almost certainty that of the police had the photo, the prosecutor had the photo. Unless it got lost somewhere somehow.

GrimUSMC
05-22-2012, 03:57 PM
And if someone was slamming your head into the pavement trying to seriously injure and or kill you, what would you do? How would that person be judged? <br />
<br />
At this time, there is STILL evidence...

angel0430
05-22-2012, 04:48 PM
There have been multiple lawyers saying that the evidence in this case would not put Zimemrman in jail .

AUTaxMan
05-22-2012, 05:35 PM
I have heard Alan Dershowitz go so far as saying that ethics charges should be brought for prosecutorial misconduct in this case.

shrewsbury
05-22-2012, 05:41 PM
you guys know this is going to turn into a big mess, more rioting, and who knows what else

AUTaxMan
05-22-2012, 05:43 PM
you guys know this is going to turn into a big mess, more rioting, and who knows what else

Absolutely.

pghin08
05-23-2012, 07:55 AM
But this thread won't. It's basically run its course, so it's archive city!