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steelers#1fan
03-26-2012, 06:48 PM
This is an editorial from one of our local papers. Found it quite interesting, so I thought I'd share.

What Does
the 1st
Amendment
Say?

First, it was the angels on
the Citizen’s Bridge in Kittanning.
Then, it was the Nativity
scene on the municipal building
lawn in Ellwood City. Now,
it’s the Ten Commandments on
the grass outside Valley High
School.
The 1st Amendment to the
Constitution of the United States
of America is as follows, and I
quote: “Congress shall make no
law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the
free exercise thereof; or abridging
the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the
people peaceably to assemble,
and to petition the Government
for a redress of grievances.”:
In a letter to the New Kensington-
Arnold School District,
a Wisconsin-based atheist
group has asked the district to
remove the stone monument,
given by the New Kensington
Eagles over a decade ago. The
monument sits near the entrance
to Valley High School’s
gymnasium.
Annie Laurie Gaylor, cofounder
of the group “Freedom
From Religion Foundation,”
said

they would file a lawsuit, if

necessary, to have it removed.
She claims the display amounts
to an “egregious violation of
the separation between church
and state.” The Foundation accuses
the district of violating
the First Amendment’s establishment
clause and cites the
1980 Supreme Court ruling in
Stone Vs. Graham that found
a Kentucky law requiring the
Ten Commandments be posted
in every classroom in Kentucky
was unconstitutional. This is not
surprising, said Vic Walczak, of
the Pennsylvania Civil Liberties
Union.
So now that we have all of the
facts and the case law on the situation,
what is your decision?
Wait a minute! Not so fast!
You’re about to jump to a conclusion
without all of the facts
that surround how that clause
got in the Constitution in the

first place.

Let’s start with Ms. Gaylor’s
comment of a “violation of the
separation between church and
state.” Now go back and read the
1st Amendment again. Did you
see anywhere it said anything
about “separation of church and
state”? I didn’t.
Do you know where this phrase
comes from? It comes from
President Thomas Jefferson and
the Baptist Association of Danbury
Connecticut, shortly after
Jefferson became President.
They expressed concern that
the right of religious expression
was government-given rather
than God-given and, therefore,
the government might someday
attempt to regulate religious expression.
Jefferson understood
their concern; it was also his
own. Jefferson believed that the
government was to be powerless
to interfere with religious
expressions for a very simple
reason: he had long witnessed
the unhealthy tendency of government
to encroach upon the
free exercise of religion.
And as we are considering
the reasons behind Jefferson’s
concerns let us not forget that
while under British control the

official religion of England

was the Church of England.
Jefferson wrote, “that the legislature
should make no law
respecting as establishment
of religion or prohibiting the
free exercise thereof:” The
separation of church and state
is a reference to the Church of

England and an official religion
which was the reason for
the First Amendment in the

first place.

The metaphor of “separation
of church and state” was for
the church staying out of the
states’ business and the state
staying out of the churches’
business”.
Unfortunately, the current
implied common meaning and
use of the metaphor is strictly
for the church staying out of
the state’s business. The opposite
meaning essentially
cannot be found in the media,
the judiciary, or in public debate
and is not any part of the
agenda of the ACLU or the
judiciary. This, in conjunction
with several other factors,
makes the “separation of
church and state” metaphor an
icon for eliminating anything
having to do with Christian
theism, the religion of our
heritage, in the public arena.
Another factor facilitating the

all forms of Christian theism is
the complete misunderstanding
of the “establishment” clause
as Jefferson warned.
My friends, we are under
attack. Not only by terrorists
who attack our buildings, but
by those who would tear down

the moral fibre that built this

great country. All of the players
are in place, if we do not
turn this country around at the
next national election we will
be a 3rd class power with no
individual freedoms including
religion.
Now is the time, this is the
place, stand up and be counted
or be part of the demise of the
United States of America.
All that is necessary for evil
to succeed, is for good men and
women to do nothing..
THIS IS A CALL TO ACTION!

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 08:11 PM
“Congress shall make no
law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the
free exercise thereof;

think that says it all

pspstatus
03-26-2012, 09:01 PM
Poor Christians. You guys have it rough. When I think of an oppressed group of people in this country, Christians are right at the top of the list. People really should stop "attacking" them.

Wickabee
03-26-2012, 09:09 PM
Christians are "attacked" as often as atheists are "attacked".

Rarely-to-never

Yet one group constantly accuses the other of "attacking" them.

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 09:13 PM
Poor Christians. You guys have it rough. When I think of an oppressed group of people in this country, Christians are right at the top of the list. People really should stop "attacking" them.

where did that come from? we are not on top of the oppressed and if we were, we wouldn't be complaining.

but i am sure to you that the few that do will be the voice of all of us, just like the black panthers represent all blacks, and terrorists represent all muslims

pspstatus
03-26-2012, 09:39 PM
where did that come from? we are not on top of the oppressed and if we were, we wouldn't be complaining.

but i am sure to you that the few that do will be the voice of all of us, just like the black panthers represent all blacks, and terrorists represent all muslims

Really I hear a lot of complaining about the attacks on Christians in this country. Pretty much every day actually. Gay people being married is an attack on Christians, Not being able to pray in school is an attack on Christians, abortion is an attack on Christians. At least, these are the things I hear quite often.

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 09:59 PM
i here gays complaining, blacks complaining, whites complaining, muslims complaining, and christians complaining

but the few don't peak for the masses, not all christians elect someone to represent us, we can represent ourselves.

gay marriage? as a christian i have no problem with it
not praying in school? as a christian, no big deal, i can pray in my mind. i believe it steps on my rights as an american and i should be able to pray where i want, if otehrs don't, that is their right
abortions? as a christian i won't judge, as a human, i feel that some, if not many, should not happen, but i have never been in the situation so i will not label others that have

i can see where you are coming from, the crap is everywhere, from nuts burning korans, to picketing soldiers funerals, to wanting to keep a statue in place, but that is not all christians nor the majority.

pspstatus
03-26-2012, 10:05 PM
i here gays complaining, blacks complaining, whites complaining, muslims complaining, and christians complaining

but the few don't peak for the masses, not all christians elect someone to represent us, we can represent ourselves.

gay marriage? as a christian i have no problem with it
not praying in school? as a christian, no big deal, i can pray in my mind. i believe it steps on my rights as an american and i should be able to pray where i want, if otehrs don't, that is their right
abortions? as a christian i won't judge, as a human, i feel that some, if not many, should not happen, but i have never been in the situation so i will not label others that have

i can see where you are coming from, the crap is everywhere, from nuts burning korans, to picketing soldiers funerals, to wanting to keep a statue in place, but that is not all christians nor the majority.


Let's be honest though. You're a lot more rational about these things than a lot of other Christians. There's editorials in my local newspaper just like this almost everyday claiming that Christians are being attacked. Of course I know some don't represent all but I believe a lot of Christians feel that way.

shrewsbury
03-26-2012, 10:07 PM
[QUOTE] You're a lot more rational about these things than a lot of other Christians.[QUOTE]

thanks

and yes i get your point, it's everywhere, it's hard to listen to the radio, read the paper, or watch the news any more.

pspstatus
03-26-2012, 10:11 PM
[quote] You're a lot more rational about these things than a lot of other Christians.[quote]

thanks

and yes i get your point, it's everywhere, it's hard to listen to the radio, read the paper, or watch the news any more.


You're welcome.

There's a lot of complaining from a lot of groups, it's true.

steelers#1fan
03-27-2012, 05:42 AM
This is what is wrong in this country and why we are decaying. How can a group of people, such as the athiests, tell Christians they can't have any signs of Christianity on public display!? This is an attack on our First Amendment rights! There's no boo-hooing about it, it's injustice.


Poor Christians. You guys have it rough. When I think of an oppressed group of people in this country, Christians are right at the top of the list. People really should stop "attacking" them.

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 09:13 AM
So if christians are ok with christian displays on public property which is paid for by tax dollars then I don't want to hear one word out them when other religions are allowed to have displays on public property for their respective religion as well.

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 11:11 AM
Poor Christians. You guys have it rough. When I think of an oppressed group of people in this country, Christians are right at the top of the list. People really should stop "attacking" them.

I was just thinking yesterday about how easy it is to be a Christian in today's society and how welcoming and tolerant our society is of people who publicly talk about their Christianity.

mrveggieman
03-27-2012, 11:18 AM
I was just thinking yesterday about how easy it is to be a Christian in today's society and how welcoming and tolerant our society is of people who publicly talk about their Christianity.


Try being a muslim, pegan or hindu and see how much easier that is compared to being a christian.

Star_Cards
03-27-2012, 12:50 PM
Really I hear a lot of complaining about the attacks on Christians in this country. Pretty much every day actually. Gay people being married is an attack on Christians, Not being able to pray in school is an attack on Christians, abortion is an attack on Christians. At least, these are the things I hear quite often.

I agree. there are people complaining about it from what I hear. not all, but it's being talked about. When you hear people talk about a "war on christmas" there are obviously people speaking out about a perceived attack of christians.

tutall
03-27-2012, 04:17 PM
I agree. there are people complaining about it from what I hear. not all, but it's being talked about. When you hear people talk about a "war on christmas" there are obviously people speaking out about a perceived attack of christians.

It's an attack on christianity not Christians. There is a huge difference. No one is Hutton a person by this but trying to disprove a religion

steelers#1fan
03-27-2012, 05:44 PM
I don't think anybody would care what is put on display as long as it's in good taste. As a Christian in a free (well, used to be)) country, I feel anybody should be able to put up anything to celebrate their religion, culture, etc,etc... It's called the First Amendment.


So if christians are ok with christian displays on public property which is paid for by tax dollars then I don't want to hear one word out them when other religions are allowed to have displays on public property for their respective religion as well.

pspstatus
03-27-2012, 07:00 PM
This is what is wrong in this country and why we are decaying. How can a group of people, such as the athiests, tell Christians they can't have any signs of Christianity on public display!? This is an attack on our First Amendment rights! There's no boo-hooing about it, it's injustice.


No sir that's why Christianity is slightly decaying in this country. Because people are tired of Christians insisting this is a Christian nation. It's not. And it's injustice if you can't put your religious symbols on public buildings but not injustice when you force people to live by Christian laws that they don't agree with.

pspstatus
03-27-2012, 07:02 PM
I was just thinking yesterday about how easy it is to be a Christian in today's society and how welcoming and tolerant our society is of people who publicly talk about their Christianity.

From my experience people are very open to most religious beliefs until they start infringing on other people who feel differently.

INTIMADATOR2007
03-27-2012, 07:46 PM
Try being a muslim, pegan or hindu and see how much easier that is compared to being a christian.

Hey, did you see the muslim men guide to wives book that sold out in a canada book store , Its great it shows how muslim men should beat there wives with the hand or with sticks and they can pull them by there ears if the beating dosen't work . or other torture methods to get the wife to follow a command . Sounds great dosen't it , too bad you will not find a christian book like that.

boba
03-27-2012, 08:09 PM
Hey, did you see the muslim men guide to wives book that sold out in a canada book store , Its great it shows how muslim men should beat there wives with the hand or with sticks and they can pull them by there ears if the beating dosen't work . or other torture methods to get the wife to follow a command . Sounds great dosen't it , too bad you will not find a christian book like that.


No, no, white christians are all racist and muslims are not because of that one news article.

( mrveggieman's logic )

steelers#1fan
03-27-2012, 09:41 PM
Explain, please.


No sir that's why Christianity is slightly decaying in this country. Because people are tired of Christians insisting this is a Christian nation. It's not. And it's injustice if you can't put your religious symbols on public buildings but not injustice when you force people to live by Christian laws that they don't agree with.

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 08:27 AM
Hey, did you see the muslim men guide to wives book that sold out in a canada book store , Its great it shows how muslim men should beat there wives with the hand or with sticks and they can pull them by there ears if the beating dosen't work . or other torture methods to get the wife to follow a command . Sounds great dosen't it , too bad you will not find a christian book like that.


Never heard of it. Did you enjoy reading it?

shrewsbury
03-28-2012, 11:14 AM
i am against any religion, person, or group that thinks anyone is a lesser person because of race, religion, sexual preference, or gender.

mrveggieman
03-28-2012, 11:22 AM
i am against any religion, person, or group that thinks anyone is a lesser person because of race, religion, sexual preference, or gender.


CHURCH!! :love0030:

pspstatus
03-28-2012, 04:04 PM
Explain, please.

I guess I should have said try to force people to live by those laws. Examples such as gay marriage, birth control, and abortion. And I mean personally when it comes to religious symbols on public buildings or something like that I could care less. I think people who complain about there being a Christmas tree in their town hall or something like that are a joke. But I do not want my elected officials making decisions based on their religious beliefs.

steelers#1fan
03-28-2012, 04:25 PM
I agree that the government shouldn't get involved in such things as gay marriage and abortion. Even though personally I believe these things to be wrong, nobody should have the right to tell somebody else they can't do it.


I guess I should have said try to force people to live by those laws. Examples such as gay marriage, birth control, and abortion. And I mean personally when it comes to religious symbols on public buildings or something like that I could care less. I think people who complain about there being a Christmas tree in their town hall or something like that are a joke. But I do not want my elected officials making decisions based on their religious beliefs.