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View Full Version : Individual mandate took a beating today



AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 05:35 PM
Things not looking great for ObamaCare.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/27/swing-justice-poses-tough-questions-on-obamacare-at-supreme-court-hearing/

MadMan1978
03-27-2012, 06:26 PM
wait that is the not whole thing...

If I do remember correct even Newt and you so called favorite GOP Sites The Heritage all called for a Health Insurance Mandate

please give a whole picture
They questioned the fact can the Federal Government force for the citizens to have Health Insurance
Which I think they we rule that they cannot force this

duane1969
03-27-2012, 06:41 PM
Without going into specifics, I find it hard for them to mandate that a person who is employed is required to pay for health insurance or be taxed. It is bad enough that we get taxed for everything that we earn and own, now we are going to face a tax for what we do not have. Gotta love the logic. One way or another they are always scheming to turn the money in your pocket into the money in their special interest spending budget.

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 06:54 PM
Actually, that is the whole thing. I am not sure what Newt has to do with anything, but anyone arguing for the mandate would be wrong. All that matters is the current case before the Supreme Court.

habsheaven
03-27-2012, 07:00 PM
Wasn't it GWB and the Republicans that wanted to privatize social security and make it mandatory?

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 07:05 PM
Wasn't it GWB and the Republicans that wanted to privatize social security and make it mandatory?

It already is mandatory. He wanted to privatize it, at least in part.

habsheaven
03-27-2012, 07:12 PM
It already is mandatory. He wanted to privatize it, at least in part.

Forgive my ignorance. I thought it was only mandatory if you actually work. Did they not want to mandate the privatized system?

MadMan1978
03-27-2012, 07:17 PM
Actually, that is the whole thing. I am not sure what Newt has to do with anything, but anyone arguing for the mandate would be wrong. All that matters is the current case before the Supreme Court.
It is to point out to all the GOP followers that the GOP years back all thought it was a good idea, including Mitt!

MadMan1978
03-27-2012, 07:18 PM
The next question is How will this effect the current law here in Mass?

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 07:20 PM
Forgive my ignorance. I thought it was only mandatory if you actually work. Did they not want to mandate the privatized system?

Oh, I see what you meant. I don't know if they wanted to privatize it for all.

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 07:23 PM
It is to point out to all the GOP followers that the GOP years back all thought it was a good idea, including Mitt!

If you are going to have universal healthcare and mandate covering preexisting conditions, you must mandate that everyone pay something to fund the system, or it cannot be financially feasible, because it isn't really an insurance-based business model any more, it's a healthcare cost subsidy.

T-206
03-27-2012, 07:26 PM
Obama , the Osama care dang near killed my dad. He went for a physical in December and gave him a pain pill for chest pains and a nebulizer for shortened breath. Then on January 10th he had a heart attack. They were going to put a defibulator in and the day he was supposed to have it Obama, Osama care said no! He will have to wear a vest for 90 days. He is out for 10 days and has a congestive heart failure back to the hospital for another 14 days. He gets out with the vest 3 days later back in the hospital with CHF again. Since his heart worsened he now has a L-VAD and defibulator. Obama, Osoma care at its best. Its already in practice on millitary bases and the VAs around the country.
I just hope one day he will go through what my dad gone through and no special treatment. In reality I know it wont happen to him.

You know my stand now on this issue

MadMan1978
03-27-2012, 07:43 PM
If you are going to have universal healthcare and mandate covering preexisting conditions, you must mandate that everyone pay something to fund the system, or it cannot be financially feasible, because it isn't really an insurance-based business model any more, it's a healthcare cost subsidy.
Yeah thats the answer I thought you would give....

MadMan1978
03-27-2012, 07:45 PM
Obama , the Osama care dang near killed my dad. He went for a physical in December and gave him a pain pill for chest pains and a nebulizer for shortened breath. Then on January 10th he had a heart attack. They were going to put a defibulator in and the day he was supposed to have it Obama, Osama care said no! He will have to wear a vest for 90 days. He is out for 10 days and has a congestive heart failure back to the hospital for another 14 days. He gets out with the vest 3 days later back in the hospital with CHF again. Since his heart worsened he now has a L-VAD and defibulator. Obama, Osoma care at its best. Its already in practice on millitary bases and the VAs around the country.
I just hope one day he will go through what my dad gone through and no special treatment. In reality I know it wont happen to him.

You know my stand now on this issue

You do know that the law does not go into full effect for like another year or so ? actually 2014

T-206
03-27-2012, 09:38 PM
You do know that the law does not go into full effect for like another year or so ? actually 2014
Yes I know and that scares the heck out of me. Although I buy my own insurance but I would like to be around long enough and not have to worry about this thing in effect in my future.

AUTaxMan
03-27-2012, 10:27 PM
Yeah thats the answer I thought you would give....

Because it is the correct answer.

MadMan1978
03-28-2012, 06:42 AM
Because it is the correct answer.
Only in your house....

MadMan1978
03-28-2012, 06:44 AM
Yes I know and that scares the heck out of me. Although I buy my own insurance but I would like to be around long enough and not have to worry about this thing in effect in my future.

Welcome to the new world of health care...by the way the model has been around for a long darn time

pghin08
03-28-2012, 10:05 AM
If Obamacare gets shut down, it's going to prove to be a pretty interesting November.

AUTaxMan
03-28-2012, 11:16 AM
Only in your house....

No, there is no way to make the system financially feasible without taxing people to cover the welfare costs. Again, it is no longer built on a business model of insurance. It is healthcare welfare. It would be akin to your car insurance paying for the cost of oil changes and tire rotation and also covering wrecks you had before you got the insurance.

duane1969
03-28-2012, 01:34 PM
You do know that the law does not go into full effect for like another year or so ? actually 2014

They are already enforcing components of it tho. My health care provider is required to cover my oldest son until he hits 26 or gets a job that offers him the chance to purchase his own. I guess then he will be required to purchase his own or be fined (taxed) for not having it.

I asked the insurance rep why he was covered until he is 26 and was told it is part of the Obamacare plan.

AUTaxMan
03-28-2012, 02:18 PM
"The minimum coverage provision is necessary to carry those provisions into execution, because without them, without those provisions, without minimum coverage, guaranteed issue and community rating will, as the experience in the States showed, make matters worse, not better. There will be fewer people covered; it will cost more." - Solicitor General Verrilli yesterday

http://mrctv.org/videos/justice-sotomayor-skeptical-about-claims-individual-mandate-isnt-justified-limitless-interpretation-commerce-clause

AUTaxMan
03-28-2012, 02:20 PM
edit - repost

Star_Cards
03-28-2012, 03:22 PM
Obama , the Osama care dang near killed my dad. He went for a physical in December and gave him a pain pill for chest pains and a nebulizer for shortened breath. Then on January 10th he had a heart attack. They were going to put a defibulator in and the day he was supposed to have it Obama, Osama care said no! He will have to wear a vest for 90 days. He is out for 10 days and has a congestive heart failure back to the hospital for another 14 days. He gets out with the vest 3 days later back in the hospital with CHF again. Since his heart worsened he now has a L-VAD and defibulator. Obama, Osoma care at its best. Its already in practice on millitary bases and the VAs around the country.
I just hope one day he will go through what my dad gone through and no special treatment. In reality I know it wont happen to him.

You know my stand now on this issue

pretty clever that you rhymed Obama with Osoma.

INTIMADATOR2007
03-28-2012, 11:10 PM
The reason Obama wants kids covered on the parents plan till 26 is because under his administration it will be until there 26 before they will find a job..

MadMan1978
03-28-2012, 11:13 PM
They are already enforcing components of it tho. My health care provider is required to cover my oldest son until he hits 26 or gets a job that offers him the chance to purchase his own. I guess then he will be required to purchase his own or be fined (taxed) for not having it.

I asked the insurance rep why he was covered until he is 26 and was told it is part of the Obamacare plan.


This is how the Mass law is
However, It is cheaper to give up the tax credit here then buy Heath Insurance....

MadMan1978
03-28-2012, 11:24 PM
No, there is no way to make the system financially feasible without taxing people to cover the welfare costs. Again, it is no longer built on a business model of insurance. It is healthcare welfare. It would be akin to your car insurance paying for the cost of oil changes and tire rotation and also covering wrecks you had before you got the insurance.
Just more double talk ....

AUTaxMan
03-29-2012, 12:56 AM
Just more double talk ....

How is it double talk? Are you just trolling?

habsheaven
03-29-2012, 09:49 AM
How is it double talk? Are you just trolling?

I think he is, or he just doesn't understand what your saying. I even agree with you on this point.

MadMan1978
04-01-2012, 05:29 PM
How is it double talk? Are you just trolling?
Because pretty much all you say is something spit out by someone in the GOP. Trolling ? I think not


For over 40 years people in the country have spoke of some form of universal health care and you call it more welfare...

I am sure you don't mind if we have decent health care in this country...you just don't want to pay for ANYTHING for the greater good of society! AND YES this would be in the interest of Society and everyone in this country! Although I will agree that the cost in Dollars is something more then anyone, even myself, expect, we need to have this in this great country. Call me a liberal I could care less if your opinion....I know this has been needed for MANY years and will be need for years to come. I beleive finding the middle on all this is what we need to seek. NOT what the those good Christians call welfare...

Now to the what the court asked and such...
The states in this case MOST likely will win. This is far reaching and should not be a law forcing the citizens to hold some form of heath insurance.

MadMan1978
04-01-2012, 05:41 PM
Now on to Mass where a Healthcare law is in full effect...
How will this effect the law here? The Attorney General of Mass has said it should not have any bearing on this state law....

AUTaxMan
04-01-2012, 07:35 PM
Because pretty much all you say is something spit out by someone in the GOP. Trolling ? I think not

Has the possibility ever occurred to you that simply because it has become a GOP talking point does not necessarily mean that it is factually inaccurate? What I said is not opinion. It is a factual statement.


For over 40 years people in the country have spoke of some form of universal health care and you call it more welfare...

I did not say that universal health care is welfare. I said that mandating coverage of pre-existing conditions is not insurance. It is welfare.


I am sure you don't mind if we have decent health care in this country...you just don't want to pay for ANYTHING for the greater good of society! AND YES this would be in the interest of Society and everyone in this country! Although I will agree that the cost in Dollars is something more then anyone, even myself, expect, we need to have this in this great country. Call me a liberal I could care less if your opinion....I know this has been needed for MANY years and will be need for years to come. I beleive finding the middle on all this is what we need to seek. NOT what the those good Christians call welfare...

I think we do have decent health care in this country. In fact, I think it is among the best, if not THE best health care systems in the world, even taking into consideration all of its faults. It isn't that I don't want to pay for anything for the greater good of society. I merely want the freedom to purchase the healthcare I want, and I want others to have that freedom as well. I also want the government to stay out of private industry and not force the insurance companies out of business (the pre-existing condition mandate will do exactly that).

Also, we cannot as a nation afford the ObamaCare program. That point is not about whether or not it is a good idea. It is merely a matter of fact. The cost of the program is too much for our country to afford.


Now to the what the court asked and such...
The states in this case MOST likely will win. This is far reaching and should not be a law forcing the citizens to hold some form of heath insurance.

The program will not work without the individual mandate, because it cannot generate enough revenue to cover the expenses that it will incur.