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View Full Version : Pagan origins of easter



mrveggieman
03-30-2012, 07:56 AM
With easter right around the corner I just wanted to post how a lot of easter customs are "borrowed" from roman paganism. Feel free to post your thoughts.

http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 08:38 AM
well of course they are many, goes for nearly all christian "holidays". this is do to the putting together of the bible lead by a roman pagan who wanted the christians and pagans to be able to merge

duane1969
03-30-2012, 10:44 AM
Since Easter came to be because Jesus was crucified by the Romans, and since the Romans were the controlling power of the region for quite a period of time, doesn't it make sense that the holiday would have the influences that are Romanesque?

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 12:16 PM
Since Easter came to be because Jesus was crucified by the Romans, and since the Romans were the controlling power of the region for quite a period of time, doesn't it make sense that the holiday would have the influences that are Romanesque?
Doesn't change the fact the millions of Christians celebrate Pagan holidays year round.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 12:19 PM
christians are celebrating christian holidays, whether they are merged with pagan events or not.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 12:22 PM
christians are celebrating christian holidays, whether they are merged with pagan events or not.
Let's try this. Is Christmas really Jesus' birthday? Not even close and all aspects of the holiday are Pagan rituals with Pagan meaning.

Christians celebrate a Pagan holiday.

Is Easter Jesus' death day? Close, sometimes real close, but sometimes way off and all aspects of the holiday are Pagan rituals with Pagan meaning.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care what you celebrate. Just know that you're lying to yourself. These holidays have as much to do with Christ as they do with outer space.

Edit: Actually, they probably have more to do with outer space.

theonedru
03-30-2012, 01:17 PM
christians are celebrating christian holidays, whether they are merged with pagan events or not.

They are freely and openly celebrating Pagan holidays and nothing else...

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 01:54 PM
so if your birthday falls on a thursday and your wife takes you out for your birthday on friday, you are not celebrating your birthday?


They are freely and openly celebrating Pagan holidays and nothing else...

so celebrating the birth or death of jesus is paganistic?

Star_Cards
03-30-2012, 01:57 PM
I celebrate the Reese Peanut butter Egg.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 01:58 PM
so celebrating the birth or death of jesus is paganistic?
No, celebrating isn't. Utilizing every aspect of the Pagan holidays they really are (masked as Christian of course) is though.

Christmas Tree? Pagan
Lighting up your house? Pagan
Gift exchange? Pagan
Easter eggs? Pagan
Easter chicks? Pagan

It's no different then sitting in the middle of a pentagram and evoking spirits "to celebrate Jesus"

theonedru
03-30-2012, 01:58 PM
so if your birthday falls on a thursday and your wife takes you out for your birthday on friday, you are not celebrating your birthday?



so celebrating the birth or death of jesus is paganistic?

No Christians are just celebrating a pagan holiday, plain and simple

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 02:18 PM
No Christians are just celebrating a pagan holiday, plain and simple

how old are you, like two???

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 02:21 PM
Doesn't matter how old he is. He's right.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 02:22 PM
Let me ask this. If Christmas isn't Pagan, but Christian, what does the tree symbolize? How about the lights? Why do we give gifts?

Same for Easter. If it truly is Christian what do the bunnies, chicks et al represent?

theonedru
03-30-2012, 02:28 PM
how old are you, like two???

my point has been proven no more need to let myself be belittled

habsheaven
03-30-2012, 02:29 PM
It's really quite simple. Christians celebrate the birth and resurrection of Christ with pagans traditions. They are not celebrating the pagan traditions, it just appears that way to those that know of their existence.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 02:35 PM
It's really quite simple. Christians celebrate the birth and resurrection of Christ with pagans traditions. They are not celebrating the pagan traditions, it just appears that way to those that know of their existence.
How is that Christian though?
It's like a Muslim putting up a Christmas tree and saying it's to celebrate Muhammad.
It's still a Christmas tree.

mrveggieman
03-30-2012, 02:38 PM
It's real ironic that Jehova's Witnesses who consider themself christians but do not celebrate pagan holidays are not classified as "real" christians by mainstream christanity.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 02:40 PM
It's real ironic that Jehova's Witnesses who consider themself christians but do not celebrate pagan holidays are not classified as "real" christians by mainstream christanity.
Amen!

And for the record, Jehovah's Witnesses do follow the teachings of Christ, probably moreso than any of the mainstream Christian religions.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 02:48 PM
No Christians are just celebrating a pagan holiday, plain and simple

how old are you, like two???

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 02:55 PM
Why would you post the whole thing again like no one saw it. Everyone did, it's at the top of the page.

How old are you?

habsheaven
03-30-2012, 02:56 PM
how old are you, like two???

If he is 2, he is a heck of alot smarter than all of us. I couldn't type squat at that age.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 03:04 PM
so do you want a real answer or should i do what seems to be the norm?

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 03:08 PM
so do you want a real answer or should i do what seems to be the norm?
Repeatedly asking people how old they are? Is that the "norm"?

boba
03-30-2012, 03:14 PM
I celebrate these holidays as a tradition. You know, eat a ham dinner on easter, open presents on Christmas, etc.

I don't celebrate them as pagan holidays or Christian holidays. For example, I don't celebrate Jesus' birth Christmas or his resurrection on easter because the Bible does not tell me too, I celebrate these two things every day of my life in the way I live.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 03:31 PM
Actually the bible does say to celebrate his death, to a degree.
The passing of wine and bread representative of his blood and body. He tells the apostles to "Keep doing this in remembrance of me". One can assume he meant that for all, not just the 12 he was seated with.

boba
03-30-2012, 03:35 PM
Actually the bible does say to celebrate his death, to a degree.
The passing of wine and bread representative of his blood and body. He tells the apostles to "Keep doing this in remembrance of me". One can assume he meant that for all, not just the 12 he was seated with.


+1 Yes, the Bible does say this and I do observe this every Sunday.

My post was about the pagan holidays that Christians have turned into Christian holidays.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 03:49 PM
+1 Yes, the Bible does say this and I do observe this every Sunday.

My post was about the pagan holidays that Christians have turned into Christian holidays.
Funny though, many Christians will say they observe Easter to celebrate Jesus' death, in other words, observing a Pagan holiday to celebrate Jesus.

Doesn't make much sense.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 04:31 PM
wickabee, if you took the time to think or research before you posted, perhaps your posting would be better.

i asked about age twice, that would be less than one tenth of one percent of my posts ask about age, that makes something pretty rare and not the norm.

so with your "plain and simple" logic we would easily find that if a christians birthday falls on your birthday, you must be christian? ( i knew you were)

i am surprised that you did not know where the bible came from and what the people did who put it together.

what a concept, to unite people of different beliefs by celebrating their holy days on the same day, so no one gets the limelight. keep all your people under control but let them think they have religious freedom.

and as far as JW being more christian, i guess this shows how little you know about them. do you know who the founder is and what he is famous for besides the watchtower? i would say no, because if you did, you would hardly make such a statement

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 05:01 PM
and as far as JW being more christian, i guess this shows how little you know about them. do you know who the founder is and what he is famous for besides the watchtower? i would say no, because if you did, you would hardly make such a statement
No, I have no idea who Charles T. Russel is or what he did. I have no idea of the teachings or working of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Can you please enlighten me? I would love to know what you think you could possibly teach me about the religion I was raised in.

Could you possibly be more arrogant?

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 05:24 PM
i could tell you but i am sure you know, it is fine to dawg out none JW christians, but not the JW'S themselves?

you can say were are stupid, dumb, and god knows what else, but ask you about the history of JW and that is being arrogant?

people dump on christians all day long, but you don't think we should have an opinion about other religions?

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 05:25 PM
i could tell you but i am sure you know, it is fine to dawg out none JW christians, but not the JW'S themselves?

you can say were are stupid, dumb, and god knows what else, but ask you about the history of JW and that is being arrogant?

people dump on christians all day long, but you don't think we should have an opinion about other religions?
Presuming you know more about JWs than me (or anyone) is arrogant.

I'm also going to go ahead and say tell me anything you want. I've heard it all and 99% is outright lies. Please, go ahead and try to sell me something I haven't heard before. I'd love it.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 05:36 PM
if you think i am going to tell you the people who practice JW are bad, then you are wrong. i am sure there are some bad ones, but there are bad everythings.

so you can claim to know about all sects of christianity and we all are stupid because we celebrate pagan holidays, but someone else mentions the founder of JW past, and we only know 99% lies? we are the dumb ones again, or i shouldn't speak for others, i am the dumb one.

so you have no idea who constantine was? who the council of nicea was? why the bible contains the books it does? or when it was put togetehr? why the holy day dates were set?

but i don't know anything about the founder of your religion?

but us non JW christians are not as good of christians as JW's?

who's arrogant???

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 05:38 PM
if you think i am going to tell you the people who practice JW are bad, then you are wrong. i am sure there are some bad ones, but there are bad everythings.

so you can claim to know about all sects of christianity and we all are stupid
I'm stopped reading right here. I never said anyone was stupid, I said they were lying to themselves. I never claimed to know about everything about every sect either.
To claim I did is arrogant.

And no, that's not what I think you're going to tell me. Thanks though for telling me my thoughts. Those are quite the powers you have.

Or maybe you're just being arrogant.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 05:46 PM
I just read the rest of the post.

You must think I'm a complete moron.

I also don't appreciate you twisting my words to say I think I know more than everyone. I don't. What I did say is there's nothing you can say to me about JWs that I haven't heard before.

theonedru
03-30-2012, 06:09 PM
I think some people need to chill out before the moderators start chiming in, lets be civil and lay off the direct personal attacks, we know the rules lets follow them. Now back on topic.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 06:09 PM
Jehovah's Witnesses do follow the teachings of Christ, probably moreso than any of the mainstream Christian religions.


It's no different then sitting in the middle of a pentagram and evoking spirits "to celebrate Jesus"


no arrogance there :confused0024:


and for the record, i don't think your a moron, actually you seem pretty intelligent. maybe a bit angry, well from looking at your posts today, maybe you're having a bad day.

and if you say something about someone else's kids, wife, religion, or politics, expect someone to say something back

i take offense when someone says i might as well be worshipping satan because i am living in a lie. and i take offense when someone claims they are more true to my religion than i am

if you take offense that i am saying JW founder has somethings in his past, it was not an attack on your religion, just the man himself, and i believe by definition you are christian not a russellite.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 06:17 PM
no arrogance there :confused0024:


and for the record, i don't think your a moron, actually you seem pretty intelligent. maybe a bit angry, well from looking at your posts today, maybe you're having a bad day.

and if you say something about someone else's kids, wife, religion, or politics, expect someone to say something back

i take offense when someone says i might as well be worshipping satan because i am living in a lie. and i take offense when someone claims they are more true to my religion than i am

if you take offense that i am saying JW founder has somethings in his past, it was not an attack on your religion, just the man himself, and i believe by definition you are christian not a russellite.
First of all, the pentagram thing was maybe a little overboard, but I do feel the point stands.
Secondly, I'm actually having a great day. The sun is shining and I'm spending my day intermitently playing with my daughter and discussing topics with intelligent people.
Third, you're not talking about my religion. I am not a JW. My mother and most of her family are, however, and I was raised in the religion. I do have more respect for them than other religions for several reason, but that's neither here nor there (though if you'd like to hear them, I'll be happy to tell you). I do get my back up as soon as anyone starts talking down about them, however, as I myself have faced discrimination because of my mother's faith. I have also heard all sorts of lunacy about them from people who "read it on a website" or "heard it in a bar". I've even had one person try to tell me that JWs are strictly forbidden from marrying outside the religion. While they discourage it, like any other religion, there is no steadfast rule about it. If there were, my parents wouldn't be married and I wouldn't exist.
Fourth, I think if you look into any religious founder or leader, you will find something to discredit them. In fact I think that goes for everyone everywhere.

I hope we understand each other better now. I think we do.

shrewsbury
03-30-2012, 06:29 PM
i would truly love to here them. the few jw's i have met seem to be more of on a mission than wanted to discuss or explain their beliefs.

my wife's grandmother, on her fathers side was a JW, but she died when my wife was young. but my father in law is not a practicing JW nor does he ever talk about it or his parents much.

my reference to russell had nothing to do with the religion, but things he did before he founded the watchtower.

i don't consider myself anything other than christian, so i consider the founder of my religion jesus. i don't practice my religion in a manner that some do, nor do i believe in some of things some christians think is a must. not saying it a better way or worse, or even the "correct" way, but it makes sense to me on many levels, and until i find a better way, which i am always trying to improve, it works for me.

and i wish i could be playing with my daughters, but they are grown up and out of the house, certainly miss those days.

Wickabee
03-30-2012, 06:59 PM
Mine just turned 1, so I've got a loooooooong way to go (and a few guns to buy in 12 or 13 years).

Like I said, you can look into anyone's past and find something. My grandfather was a drunk. So much so that it killed him. He was arrested for drunk driving several times and got away with it even more. I watched the man slowly kill himself. It was awful.
But does that say anything about him being the longest serving president in his local minor hockey assn's history and the second longest serving minor hockey assn. president in BC history? Does it say anything of his volunteer work turning a piddly little Canada Day celebration (13 floats) into the second largest Canada Day celebration in the Province? (tough to beat Victoria on that one) No, it doesn't. Same thing goes for Russel.

I don't consider myself anything, even Christian. I think to call myself Christian would say any other faith is "wrong" and I don't believe that. I believe every religion is wrong and right. I've never met a religion I fully agree or disagree with. Personally, I disagree with the idea of religion more than anything, but that's a different conversation.

As for my reasons for respecting JWs, I'll first admit that I may be biased, since it is the religion I most identify with, being raised in it.

My biggest reason for respecting JWs is that they're the forgotten victims of the holocaust. Everyone remembers the Jews, as we should, and even homosexuals but many people forget they weren't the only ones to die in concentration camps. Millions of JWs lost their lives because they would not fight for Hitler.

My next reason is simply that they live what they believe, which I think we can agree, most people who call themselves Christian do not. Yes, they make mistakes and all like the rest of us, but I've never met anyone who calls themselves a JW and does not follow the teachings.

A third reason would simply be their resolve. Everyone hates JWs knocking on their door, right? They still do it. Despite what they run into on people's doorsteps, they still go because they believe it's right and they believe it's necessary. My grandmother had shotguns pulled on her on two separate occasions by two different people. Did it scare her off? Not one bit. In the past they've faced arrest, beatings and a host of other consequences for practicing their beliefs, in some part of the world they still face such hardships. But there they are doing what they believe and practicing what they preach

That's the main points of my respect for JWs.