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steelers#1fan
04-09-2012, 06:12 PM
If Jacob England and George Zimmerman are White, then so is Obama! The liberal media race baiting wheel just won't stop turning. Now, Alvin Watts, there's no denying he's white! He looks like someone you should keep your kids away from. From what I read in other articles, a black guy killed England's dad two years prior to this incident and he was looking for revenge. I guess he had other demons in his head as well that everything came to a head, and unfortunately, led to several people dead and two wounded.

Tulsa 'race attack' shootings: Two men arrested on suspicion of shooting dead three black people
Officers acting on a tip-off swooped on Alvin Watts, 32, and Jake England, 19, after the killings on Good Friday




http://www.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article784728.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Alvin+Lee+Watts Arrested: Alvin Lee Watts Reuters


TWO white men were yesterday arrested on suspicion of shooting dead three black people in a suspected racist attack in America.
Officers acting on a tip-off swooped on Alvin Watts, 32, and Jake England, 19, after the killings on Good Friday.
Witnesses said a person in a white pick-up truck stopped people in a black neighbourhood to ask for directions, opened fire and sped off.
Bobby Clark, 54, Dannaer Fields, 49, and William Allen, 31, died.
Two people injured have not been named but it is expected they will live.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article784727.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Jacob+Carl+England Arrested: Jacob Carl England

shrewsbury
04-09-2012, 06:16 PM
why do people that do crazy stuff like this, usually look like they would something crazy?

INTIMADATOR2007
04-09-2012, 08:39 PM
If they are found guilty , It should be straight to the injection table , No prison stay straight to the table .

steelers#1fan
04-09-2012, 09:00 PM
I agree. A five cent bullet would be cheaper for the taxpayer though.
If they are found guilty , It should be straight to the injection table , No prison stay straight to the table .

duane1969
04-09-2012, 09:37 PM
I agree. A five cent bullet would be cheaper for the taxpayer though.

A rope is reusable. A quick shove off of a high building is cheaper and reusable.

steelers#1fan
04-09-2012, 09:59 PM
So true! lol....
A rope is reusable. A quick shove off of a high building is cheaper and reusable.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 09:25 AM
Ya'll are going way too easy on them. Give them the chair or gas them.

pghin08
04-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Pretty sure I'm the only one on SCF who is against capital punishment.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 10:14 AM
Pretty sure I'm the only one on SCF who is against capital punishment.


I believe in capital punishment in extreme cases. Such as a hate crime, crime against a child, mass murder or some type of cruel and unusual murder. I don't think that a guy that gets in an argument with some guy that he had a long standing beef with, finally goes off and kills him should get the death penalty (more like a long prison term) but all of the forementioned is worthy of death in my book.

tndcollectables
04-10-2012, 10:18 AM
Ya'll are going way too easy on them. Give them the chair or gas them.



cost the taxpayers to much money a rope is cheaper

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 10:28 AM
cost the taxpayers to much money a rope is cheaper


Or better yet get some gasoline and matches from walmart. It shouldn't cost no more than a few bucks. Go back to the salem witchcraft trial days.

tndcollectables
04-10-2012, 10:31 AM
rope is reusable though, they are guilty, many witness' why waste the money

pghin08
04-10-2012, 10:31 AM
I believe in capital punishment in extreme cases. Such as a hate crime, crime against a child, mass murder or some type of cruel and unusual murder. I don't think that a guy that gets in an argument with some guy that he had a long standing beef with, finally goes off and kills him should get the death penalty (more like a long prison term) but all of the forementioned is worthy of death in my book.

I just don't believe in it at all. Besides the fact that it's totally archaic (and the US is one of the very few Westernized nations to do it), it's actually more expensive, when you consider the magnitude of the appeals process, than imprisoning someone for life. Plus, it doesn't exactly make me proud that the US, in 2011, executed more people than any other country besides China, Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Not the best company to keep.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 10:48 AM
A better alternative would be duane's idea. If you are found guilty of a capital charge you have 1 year to appeal. If you are still found guilty on your appeal you are excuted within 24 hours. ...

pghin08
04-10-2012, 11:26 AM
But it doesn't address why we have it to begin with. It does nothing to deter crime. Though violent crime has decreased significantly over the past 20 years, we still have one of the highest...

hawk2618
04-10-2012, 11:48 AM
Are you saying capital punishment does not deter crime in gereral? Maybe, but I really think its defense lawyers that find loopholes in laws that feeds the crime rate.
Mischievous individuals just don't care anymore because there's a good chance they will get off and in most cases takes months,sometimes years to make trial.All that time in prison with the same luxuries as me outside. Tough living huh?
~~Dave C.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 12:02 PM
But it doesn't address why we have it to begin with. It does nothing to deter crime. Though violent crime has decreased significantly over the past 20 years, we still have one of the highest homicide rates in the industrial world. So is our system actually working? I'd say no.


I don't what if anything will deter violent crime in today's day and time. However if you feel the need to take an innocent person's life for your "cause" don't get mad when the state wants to take yours.

pghin08
04-10-2012, 12:19 PM
Are you saying capital punishment does not deter crime in gereral? Maybe, but I really think its defense lawyers that find loopholes in laws that feeds the crime rate.
Mischievous individuals just don't care anymore because there's a good chance they will get off and in most cases takes months,sometimes years to make trial.All that time in prison with the same luxuries as me outside. Tough living huh?
~~Dave C.

Yes, and above that, I think our entire system of incarceration is deeply flawed. The US accounts for less than 5% of the total global population, yet we're home to almost 25% of all of the world's prisoners. That's NUTS. The numbers vary on this, but most say that at least half of all prisoners in the US are incarcerated for non-violent crimes. Yet they sit in prisons and cause enormous hardship to the American taxpayer. In 2006 alone we spent nearly $70 billion on corrections.

I live in Pennsylvania, and we elected a new governor, Tom Corbett, in 2010. One of the first things he did as part of his new budget was to drastically slash money going to public schools and universities, to the tune of over half a billion dollars. While doing this, he (slightly) increased the amount of money spent on prisons and other correctional facilities. So basically, what Corbett is saying is that it's more important to imprison people than to educate them. I have a huge problem with that. Why?

According to 2007 Data, in the US, it costs approximately $28K per year to keep someone behind bars. It usually costs between $10-12K to educate a child for a year. So why should I imprison one nonviolent criminal for a year, and take away the money used to educate 2 kids over that same period? The more you are educated, the less likely you are to be in prison. So if you decide to educate two first graders rather than put someone in prison, in 12 years, rather than spending massive amounts on a crappy prison system, you've probably turned two young people into..GASP!...taxpayers!

The system we have in place sucks, pure and simple.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 12:24 PM
Yes, and above that, I think our entire system of incarceration is deeply flawed. The US accounts for less than 5% of the total global population, yet we're home to almost 25% of all of the world's prisoners. That's NUTS. The numbers vary on this, but most say that at least half of all prisoners in the US are incarcerated for non-violent crimes. Yet they sit in prisons and cause enormous hardship to the American taxpayer. In 2006 alone we spent nearly $70 billion on corrections.

I live in Pennsylvania, and we elected a new governor, Tom Corbett, in 2010. One of the first things he did as part of his new budget was to drastically slash money going to public schools and universities, to the tune of over half a billion dollars. While doing this, he (slightly) increased the amount of money spent on prisons and other correctional facilities. So basically, what Corbett is saying is that it's more important to imprison people than to educate them. I have a huge problem with that. Why?

According to 2007 Data, in the US, it costs approximately $28K per year to keep someone behind bars. It usually costs between $10-12K to educate a child for a year. So why should I imprison one nonviolent criminal for a year, and take away the money used to educate 2 kids over that same period? The more you are educated, the less likely you are to be in prison. So if you decide to educate two first graders rather than put someone in prison, in 12 years, rather than spending massive amounts on a crappy prison system, you've probably turned two young people into..GASP!...taxpayers!

The system we have in place sucks, pure and simple.


The system was designed like that on purpose. The do not want a society full of well educated individuals capable of critical thinking. They would rather keep us dumbed down so that we will not be smart enough to figure out how we are getting screwed over by the system.

pghin08
04-10-2012, 12:26 PM
The system was designed like that on purpose. The do not want a society full of well educated individuals capable of critical thinking. They would rather keep us dumbed down so that we will not be smart enough to figure out how we are getting screwed over by the system.

You're decidedly more cynical than I am. I think we were actually FOUNDED to be a society full of well-educated individuals capable of critical thinking.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 12:28 PM
You're decidedly more cynical than I am. I think we were actually FOUNDED to be a society full of well-educated individuals capable of critical thinking.


That may have been way back when but it is no longer the case.

Star_Cards
04-10-2012, 01:01 PM
I can see both sides of the death penalty. I find it okay when we know 100% that the offender did the crime worthy of that punishment, but with stories of people being sentenced for crimes they in fact didn't comment, part of me wonders if the death penalty should be used. There are a few people who spend many years in prison and are found not guilty due to new technologies that they didn't have at the time of their trial. What if one of those people had been executed? It's a pretty messed up thing to think about if you think of it in that manner.

Obviously there are times when there is undeniable proof that a person carried out a crime. In those cases I think I'm okay with the death penalty. However, I don't think the death penalty serves as a deterrent in most cases.

hawk2618
04-10-2012, 01:18 PM
Well,your case also supports that capital punishment should be used more often and faster.If you got rid of the severe crime doers,rapers murderers,child molesters.That would free up huge space.I don't disagree with you one bit.The system is badly flawed.The way population is growing at an astounding rate,crime can only increase at the same rate with no end in site.I have no answer.I wish someone did!
~~Dave C.

pghin08
04-10-2012, 01:24 PM
Well,your case also supports that capital punishment should be used more often and faster.If you got rid of the severe crime doers,rapers murderers,child molesters.That would free up huge space.I don't disagree with you one bit.The system is badly flawed.The way population is growing at an astounding rate,crime can only increase at the same rate with no end in site.I have no answer.I wish someone did!
~~Dave C.

A couple things:

1. It wouldn't free up nearly as much space as getting a lot of the non-violent criminals out of prisons.

2. Violent crime in the US is on a RAPID decline over the past 20 years.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

A couple weeks ago on CNN, Fareed Zakaria said something that I agreed with wholeheartedly:

"In the past two decades, the money that states spend on prisons has risen at six times the rate of spending on higher education. In 2011, California spent $9.6 billion on prisons, versus $5.7 billion on higher education..... The state spends $8,667 per student per year. It spends about $50,000 per inmate per year. Why is this happening? Prisons are a big business. Most are privately run. They have powerful lobbyists and they have bought most state politicians. Meanwhile, we are bankrupting out states and creating a vast underclass of prisoners who will never be equipped for productive lives."

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 01:33 PM
A couple things:

1. It wouldn't free up nearly as much space as getting a lot of the non-violent criminals out of prisons.

2. Violent crime in the US is on a RAPID decline over the past 20 years.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

A couple weeks ago on CNN, Fareed Zakaria said something that I agreed with wholeheartedly:

"In the past two decades, the money that states spend on prisons has risen at six times the rate of spending on higher education. In 2011, California spent $9.6 billion on prisons, versus $5.7 billion on higher education..... The state spends $8,667 per student per year. It spends about $50,000 per inmate per year. Why is this happening? Prisons are a big business. Most are privately run. They have powerful lobbyists and they have bought most state politicians. Meanwhile, we are bankrupting out states and creating a vast underclass of prisoners who will never be equipped for productive lives."

I agree that more money should be spent on education that prisons but like I mentioned earlier the powers that don't be want it that way. Prisons are indeed a big business nothing more than legalized slavery.

hawk2618
04-10-2012, 01:41 PM
The word slavery has no bearing on someone being in prison one bit.If you're in prison,more than likely,you deserve to be there.You were'nt considered a slave because you did a crime.There's a huge difference.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 01:43 PM
The word slavery has no bearing on someone being in prison one bit.If you're in prison,more than likely,you deserve to be there.You were'nt considered a slave because you did a crime.There's a huge difference.


I'm not trying to suggest that you are not in prison because you don't deserve to be in there but prisons are a big for profit business and the companies that run prisons do make good money based on how many people are locked up.

Star_Cards
04-10-2012, 02:05 PM
I agree that more money should be spent on education that prisons but like I mentioned earlier the powers that don't be want it that way. Prisons are indeed a big business nothing more than legalized slavery.

I don't think it's comparable to slavery. I get that you are saying that companies earn money based off of their population, but not exactly on par with slavery.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 02:09 PM
I don't think it's comparable to slavery. I get that you are saying that companies earn money based off of their population, but not exactly on par with slavery.

Not slavery of an innocent man per say but I've heard stories of being being locked up for petty crimes and someone goading them to getting in a fight in jail so their time would be extended and therefore making the corporation more money.

AUTaxMan
04-10-2012, 03:14 PM
A couple weeks ago on CNN, Fareed Zakaria said something that I agreed with wholeheartedly:

"In the past two decades, the money that states spend on prisons has risen at six times the rate of spending on higher education. In 2011, California spent $9.6 billion on prisons, versus $5.7 billion on higher education..... The state spends $8,667 per student per year. It spends about $50,000 per inmate per year. Why is this happening? Prisons are a big business. Most are privately run. They have powerful lobbyists and they have bought most state politicians. Meanwhile, we are bankrupting out states and creating a vast underclass of prisoners who will never be equipped for productive lives."

This one was going pretty well until Zakaria turned it into a straw man argument.

pghin08
04-10-2012, 03:18 PM
This one was going pretty well until Zakaria turned it into a straw man argument.

Then you can take out the last sentence or two. The basic premise is still true.