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mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 02:05 PM
Ozzie was suspended 5 games by baseball for his comments supporting Fidel Castro. Castro is an unpopular politician just like a bunch of other unpopular politions. My question is how come it is ok to suspend Ozzie over his castro remarks but if someone made comments supporting bush, or any republican canidate no one would give it a second thought.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/ozzie-guillen-suspended-five-games-says-i-feel-like-i-betrayed-my-latin-community/2012/04/10/gIQAUSQN8S_blog.html

pghin08
04-10-2012, 02:16 PM
Ozzie was suspended 5 games by baseball for his comments supporting Fidel Castro. Castro is an unpopular politician just like a bunch of other unpopular politions. My question is how come it is ok to suspend Ozzie over his castro remarks but if someone made comments supporting bush, or any republican canidate no one would give it a second thought.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/ozzie-guillen-suspended-five-games-says-i-feel-like-i-betrayed-my-latin-community/2012/04/10/gIQAUSQN8S_blog.html

I think that goes beyond support of republicans. If Ozzie would have said something in support of Biden/Obama, etc on the Democratic side, he would have been met with equal nonchalant-ness.

I think the reason that he's being lambasted for it (aside from it being a remarkably stupid thing to say), is that the US has historically had a hostile relationship with Castro's Cuba. Thought that disdain (politically) has numbed and faded over time, any pro-Castro sentiment in this country is often met with anger and outrage.

mrveggieman
04-10-2012, 02:19 PM
I think that goes beyond support of republicans. If Ozzie would have said something in support of Biden/Obama, etc on the Democratic side, he would have been met with equal nonchalant-ness.

I think the reason that he's being lambasted for it (aside from it being a remarkably stupid thing to say), is that the US has historically had a hostile relationship with Castro's Cuba. Thought that disdain (politically) has numbed and faded over time, any pro-Castro sentiment in this country is often met with anger and outrage.


American hyprocricy at it's finest. SMH.

pghin08
04-10-2012, 02:21 PM
American hyprocricy at it's finest. SMH.

I'm kind of middle of the road on Castro. I don't think he was this horrible, murderous dictator or anything. But his human rights violations are decently documented.

(P.S- I've never bought into the theory that he had something to do with JFK's death)

BGT Masters
04-10-2012, 04:07 PM
Its really not that difficult to understand. Guillen coaches the Miami Marlins. Miami is a stones through from Cuba. A lot of people who are fans of the Marlins are more familiar to a personal degree with Castro and his actions then some of us will ever be. If you make stupid comments like this which might cost your owner a large amount if sales revenue you can expect to be suspended. Personally I think he is a good manager, but needs to keep his mouth shut. I have disliked him for quite some time and his childish actions got annoying a long time ago. As I heard on espn today it would be similar to if one of the NY teams' coaches said something similar about Bin Laden. Also to call him just an unpopular politician is sort of sugar coating it just a tad don't you think?

Star_Cards
04-10-2012, 04:08 PM
I think it's different than if he had just commented about a president or politician from the U.S. Marge Schott was suspended like a year or something because she said hitler started off with good ideas but took it too far, which is completely absurd. lol

I think the bottom line for the suspension is simply about cash. The Marlins suspended him because of where they are and who is part of their fan base and they want to show that they didn't approve of his comments. I also think Ozzie's apology today was a complete joke and basically a non apology for the most part. Blaming the issue even partly on translation is insulting and way more offensive than the fact that he said he liked and respected Castro.

tndcollectables
04-10-2012, 04:28 PM
Our government is teaching Ozzie how to blame everyone for his mistakes.

gladdyontherise
04-10-2012, 04:45 PM
He was suspended because the organization had to somewhat cave in to the fans. That's the only reason.

theonedru
04-11-2012, 02:15 AM
He should never have been suspended, he is allowed to voice his opinion, MLB should be ashamed of their actions and should apologize to Ozzie for their ignorance

andrewhoya
04-11-2012, 06:42 AM
He should never have been suspended, he is allowed to voice his opinion, MLB should be ashamed of their actions and should apologize to Ozzie for their ignorance

Marlins suspended Ozzie, not MLB.........

tsjct
04-11-2012, 08:10 AM
He was suspended for DAMAGE CONTROL. I think the guy is an idiot and needs to be gone from baseball for good. He is a racist moron that belongs nowhere a baseball stadium. But if the owners keep hiring him i hope the teams fail and fail miserably.

mrveggieman
04-11-2012, 09:07 AM
He was suspended for DAMAGE CONTROL. I think the guy is an idiot and needs to be gone from baseball for good. He is a racist moron that belongs nowhere a baseball stadium. But if the owners keep hiring him i hope the teams fail and fail miserably.


Why do you consider him a racist?

Star_Cards
04-11-2012, 09:23 AM
I'm also curious why you consider him a racist. I don't remember him anything to make me think so, but I don't have all of my Ozzie rants and press conferences on file.

Kosmo kards
04-11-2012, 12:35 PM
I hate this guy. I really do.

gladdyontherise
04-11-2012, 05:40 PM
Marlins suspended Ozzie, not MLB.........

Yep, but MLB probably has to approve it and such, but like I and others have mentioned, it's more of a PR move.

AUTaxMan
04-11-2012, 05:43 PM
Didn't the Marlins hire Guillen to say stupid stuff like this to keep them in the news?

duwal
04-11-2012, 07:55 PM
He should never have been suspended, he is allowed to voice his opinion, MLB should be ashamed of their actions and should apologize to Ozzie for their ignorance

He absolutely should be suspended and not allowed to voice his opinion like that when it reflects badly on his employer. If you represent a certain organization or group you can't just go ahead and say whatever you feel like especially if it is not something the organization feels is acceptable to say.

theonedru
04-11-2012, 08:06 PM
He absolutely should be suspended and not allowed to voice his opinion like that when it reflects badly on his employer. If you represent a certain organization or group you can't just go ahead and say whatever you feel like especially if it is not something the organization feels is acceptable to say.

So its ok to violate his free speech. i do not think so what is this communist China or America where we have the freedom to say dumb things that reflect badly against ourselves

AUTaxMan
04-11-2012, 08:30 PM
So its ok to violate his free speech. i do not think so what is this communist China or America where we have the freedom to say dumb things that reflect badly against ourselves

It is not a violation of free speech to be punished by your employer for public remarks you have made. It would be a violation of free speech if the government threw him in jail for those remarks though.

duwal
04-11-2012, 08:31 PM
So its ok to violate his free speech. i do not think so what is this communist China or America where we have the freedom to say dumb things that reflect badly against ourselves


so you're saying that you can go into your work tomorrow and say the most racist or vulgar comments you can think of and that you feel you have the right to say them without any kind of punishment from your work?

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 07:56 AM
so you're saying that you can go into your work tomorrow and say the most racist or vulgar comments you can think of and that you feel you have the right to say them without any kind of punishment from your work?


I think that's a little extreme comparing someone going to work making racist and extremists comments to what Ozzie said. That being said although I don't agree with Ozzie being suspended I completely understand why he was. The Marlins play in South Florida an area with a large Cuban population many of them do not like Castro. So after Ozzie said what they said the Marlins had to distance themselves from Ozzie's remarks otherwise they would have ran the risk of alienating a large segment of their fan base. Their decision was strictly a financial decision not a political one. Again I do not like what happend to Ozzie but as me all know money talks that other stuff walks.

andrewhoya
04-12-2012, 08:00 AM
I think that's a little extreme comparing someone going to work making racist and extremists comments to what Ozzie said. That being said although I don't agree with Ozzie being suspended I completely understand why he was. The Marlins play in South Florida an area with a large Cuban population many of them do not like Castro. So after Ozzie said what they said the Marlins had to distance themselves from Ozzie's remarks otherwise they would have ran the risk of alienating a large segment of their fan base. Their decision was strictly a financial decision not a political one. Again I do not like what happend to Ozzie but as me all know money talks that other stuff walks.

It shouldn't matter if people like Castro or not. He has his opinion, and if he likes Castro, then he should be able to.

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 08:29 AM
It shouldn't matter if people like Castro or not. He has his opinion, and if he likes Castro, then he should be able to.


I agree with you but as we all know money makes the world go around and Ozzie's mouth could potentially cost the marlins a lot of money.

AUTaxMan
04-12-2012, 09:50 AM
It shouldn't matter if people like Castro or not. He has his opinion, and if he likes Castro, then he should be able to.

Who is saying he can't like Castro?

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 10:00 AM
Who is saying he can't like Castro?


Obviously the Florida Marlins for giving him a five game suspension for voicing pro castro views.

andrewhoya
04-12-2012, 10:14 AM
Obviously the Florida Marlins for giving him a five game suspension for voicing pro castro views.

Yep.

ensbergcollector
04-12-2012, 10:16 AM
the freedom of speech covers your right to not be charged or imprisoned for your beliefs. It does not mean you will not face consequences in life. I do not understand the attitude of those that...

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 10:22 AM
I'm sure that there is some type of either morals clause or something that prevents him from saying or taking actions that would embarass the organization. That being said it's real ironic and sad...

ensbergcollector
04-12-2012, 10:27 AM
I'm sure that there is some type of either morals clause or something that prevents him from saying or taking actions that would embarass the organization. That being said it's real ironic and sad that baseball which is america's pastime would be through one of their former star players and current star coaches under the bus for speaking his mind on political issues regarding castro but have no problem with curt shilling making pro bush and pro war statements. Hyprocricy at it's finest.

you really can't help it can you? you probably see bush hiding under your bed and in your closet at night.

how in the world is supporting bush and supporting castro the same thing? No one was going to boycott baseball because shilling supported bush. Last I checked, bush was not imprisoning anyone who disagreed with him politically. Last I checked, thousands upon thousands were not fleeing the united states at risk of their own lives just to flee the tyranny of bush.

it is safe to say when shilling was with the red sox, they lost zero dollars for his comments about bush. the marlins stand to lose millions. now, care to explain to me how those are the same thing?

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 10:45 AM
you really can't help it can you? you probably see bush hiding under your bed and in your closet at night.

how in the world is supporting bush and supporting castro the same thing? No one was going to boycott baseball because shilling supported bush. Last I checked, bush was not imprisoning anyone who disagreed with him politically. Last I checked, thousands upon thousands were not fleeing the united states at risk of their own lives just to flee the tyranny of bush.

it is safe to say when shilling was with the red sox, they lost zero dollars for his comments about bush. the marlins stand to lose millions. now, care to explain to me how those are the same thing?


Yes it is all about the mighty dollar but it is also sad that you can cheerlead the popular politician at the time and get a pat on the back but if you say something about an unpopular politician you are considered a social outcast. That my friend is where the hyprocracy lies. Just like there are people who love bush there are people who love castro too. I personally don't care about the guy one way or the other but I don't think that it is fair that you should be suspended for speaking your mind about him.

ensbergcollector
04-12-2012, 10:55 AM
Yes it is all about the mighty dollar but it is also sad that you can cheerlead the popular politician at the time and get a pat on the back but if you say something about an unpopular politician you are considered a social outcast. That my friend is where the hyprocracy lies. Just like there are people who love bush there are people who love castro too. I personally don't care about the guy one way or the other but I don't think that it is fair that you should be suspended for speaking your mind about him.

the fact that you think this has anything to do with popular/unpopular politicians shows just how little you apparently know about politics and castro. I want you to go tell a group of holocaust survivors that you think hitler was great. Miami is filled with people who lost family members, homes, and livelihoods because of castro. But no, that is no different than supporting bush. give me a break man.

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 11:04 AM
the fact that you think this has anything to do with popular/unpopular politicians shows just how little you apparently know about politics and castro. I want you to go tell a group of holocaust survivors that you think hitler was great. Miami is filled with people who lost family members, homes, and livelihoods because of castro. But no, that is no different than supporting bush. give me a break man.


So you are trying to say that Castro is worse than or equal than Hitler? Wow.

ensbergcollector
04-12-2012, 11:07 AM
So you are trying to say that Castro is worse than or equal than Hitler? Wow.

no, i am saying that the families affected by castro feel the same way about him that families affected by hitler feel.

you were too busy looking for an angle to attack bush when you should have been doing a little research on castro and why there was such a backlash over guillen's comments.

BGT Masters
04-12-2012, 11:09 AM
So you are trying to say that Castro is worse than or equal than Hitler? Wow.

Do you really believe half of the nonsense you write on this forum? Sometimes I can't tell if you're really this clueless or if you're just trolling trying to get a reaction out of people. Either way its pretty lame. You read whatever you want out of people's responses and not actually the meaning behind them.

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 11:22 AM
Do you really believe half of the nonsense you write on this forum? Sometimes I can't tell if you're really this clueless or if you're just trolling trying to get a reaction out of people. Either way its pretty lame. You read whatever you want out of people's responses and not actually the meaning behind them.


Bottom line is that I couldn't care less how Ozzie feels about Castro one way or the other. The only reason he was disciplined by the marlins was because what he said was bad for business. Once the marlins start winning games and going back to the world series this story will be long forgotton.

BGT Masters
04-12-2012, 11:56 AM
And if it were Bobby Valentine saying something about how he admires ________ (fill in something greatly offending black people) you'd be screaming and crying for his job in every thread you posted on. Anyone who has ever read even a few of your posts would agree with me I am sure.

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 12:04 PM
And if it were Bobby Valentine saying something about how he admires ________ (fill in something greatly offending black people) you'd be screaming and crying for his job in every thread you posted on. Anyone who has ever read even a few of your posts would agree with me I am sure.


Ozzie is hispanic just like the majority of cuba. The last time that I checked Bobby Valentie is not black.

Star_Cards
04-12-2012, 12:50 PM
And if it were Bobby Valentine saying something about how he admires ________ (fill in something greatly offending black people) you'd be screaming and crying for his job in every thread you posted on. Anyone who has ever read even a few of your posts would agree with me I am sure.

so you think veggie would have a different stance if the manager was white and referenced admiration for a similar but white dictator like castro?

BGT Masters
04-12-2012, 12:59 PM
so you think veggie would have a different stance if the manager was white and referenced admiration for a similar but white dictator like castro?

I think he would. In saying that, I feel as if it personally offended him, like it obviously it did the the people who were offended by the Castro reference his opinion would differ.

ensbergcollector
04-12-2012, 12:59 PM
so you think veggie would have a different stance if the manager was white and referenced admiration for a similar but white dictator like castro?

seeing has how veggie sees no difference in guillen saying he likes castro and shilling saying he likes bush...

mrveggieman
04-12-2012, 01:13 PM
seeing has how veggie sees no difference in guillen saying he likes castro and shilling saying he likes bush...


Again ball players/coaches are not generally known for their political expertise and most of us don't give a crap about what they say politically so why is everyone getting so bent out of shape? I will continue to live my life regardless of castro, bush or ozzie.

Star_Cards
04-12-2012, 01:29 PM
I think he would. In saying that, I feel as if it personally offended him, like it obviously it did the the people who were offended by the Castro reference his opinion would differ.

I think that could be said for anyone. If he had mentioned a dictator that directly effected me I can see myself having a greater interest or an even possible offense to a comment like that. I'm not cuban or know anyone cuban so I'm not personally connected enough to make it give me more than just a thought about being confused to his statement. I haven't heard the whole interview but how in the heck did castro come up in a baseball interview. lol

BGT Masters
04-12-2012, 01:49 PM
I think that could be said for anyone. If he had mentioned a dictator that directly effected me I can see myself having a greater interest or an even possible offense to a comment like that. I'm not cuban or know anyone cuban so I'm not personally connected enough to make it give me more than just a thought about being confused to his statement. I haven't heard the whole interview but how in the heck did castro come up in a baseball interview. lol

Exactly. My point being, veggie was complaining about why he (Guillen) was really suspended. When if it was something that greatly offended him (veg) he'd not just be screaming for a suspension, but for his job. And if you have ever heard the guy talk, who knows what the heck is going through his mind half of the time he opens his stupid mouth. He normally blames it on english not being his first language however he's been here for decades. You'd think he's be pretty understanding of it by now.