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View Full Version : Has anyone ever gave any other religions an honest try?



mrveggieman
04-18-2012, 01:52 PM
Someone bought this up in one of the religious discussions and it was a good point. Most people who follow a particular religion do it because it was the religion that they were raised on or is the popular religion in their country. My question is how many of you actually gave any other religions an honest try before following the one that you currently do? If you haven't why not? How can you be sure that you are really following the one and only true way to heaven if you don't have anything else to compare it to besides hersay and lies about other religons.

ensbergcollector
04-18-2012, 01:54 PM
not sure what qualifies as an honest try but i wasn't raised in church and started going in early high school. I spent a lot of time reading and studying various religions and various denominations before I settled. can't say that I attended services at all of these but i did some honest looking.

mrveggieman
04-18-2012, 01:56 PM
not sure what qualifies as an honest try but i wasn't raised in church and started going in early high school. I spent a lot of time reading and studying various religions and various denominations before I settled. can't say that I attended services at all of these but i did some honest looking.


Were they mainly christian based or did you look at others like budism, hinduism, etc. Also what turned you on to christanity and the particular form of christanity that you practice?

duane1969
04-18-2012, 02:00 PM
What do you classify as a "different" religion? I was raised a Baptist and have attended Catholic and Mormon services and consider them "different" but since they are all generally Christian related I don't know if they are what you mean.

My chances to attend a Muslim, Buddhist or Jewish service are limited since there are no Buddhist anywhere near me (as far as I know) and the closest Muslim and Jewish "churches" are between 50 and 150 miles away.

mrveggieman
04-18-2012, 02:03 PM
What do you classify as a "different" religion? I was raised a Baptist and have attended Catholic and Mormon services and consider them "different" but since they are all generally Christian related I don't know if they are what you mean.

My chances to attend a Muslim, Buddhist or Jewish service are limited since there are no Buddhist anywhere near me (as far as I know) and the closest Muslim and Jewish "churches" are between 50 and 150 miles away.


Some christians don't even consider catholics and mormans real christians but I am glad that you tried it for yourself. As for me I have the most expeirence with christian churches including dabbling around in a catholic church when I was 18 as well as studying islam on and off for a few years. I also enjoy reading online about different religions and getting another man's ideas of God.

habsheaven
04-18-2012, 02:12 PM
Some christians don't even consider catholics and mormans real christians but I am glad that you tried it for yourself. As for me I have the most expeirence with christian churches including dabbling around in a catholic church when I was 18 as well as studying islam on and off for a few years. I also enjoy reading online about different religions and getting another man's ideas of God.

Have you ever honestly considered that there is no God?

mrveggieman
04-18-2012, 02:21 PM
Have you ever honestly considered that there is no God?


I am glad that you asked me that. I would think that most if not all people who believe in God/Allah/Jehova/Jesus/etc at one point had their doubts about weather he acutally exists. And yes I did at one time as well. However as for me I believe in the bottom of my heart that there is something out there that is greater than all us. Now weather his name is called Allah, Jesus or Zues none of us can really be certian of that and I am still waiting for proof from any who claims that they know without a shadow of a doubt what it is .

hawk2618
04-18-2012, 02:39 PM
Faith can't be proved,thats why its called "Faith"!

mrveggieman
04-18-2012, 02:59 PM
Faith can't be proved,thats why its called "Faith"!


Agreed, however one man's faith should never be considered greater than or less than the next one.

ensbergcollector
04-18-2012, 03:13 PM
Agreed, however one man's faith should never be considered greater than or less than the next one.

it isn't about someone's faith being greater or less than someone else. when we have faith in something, we have faith that it is true. It isn't wrong or incorrect to believe in the truth of what you believe. I have ZERO problem if a muslim or jewish person told me they didn't think I would be going to Heaven. According to their faith, that is true. Why should that offend or bother me?

If I come on here and say that I have faith that I am the son of God and everyone should bow down to me, you don't have to be politically correct and support me. You are allowed to say, "you are allowed to believe that, but I don't." You are allowed to say "i feel much more confident in the god that I believe in then what you believe in."

I don't really understand where disagreements became wrong. We disagree on everything but if I disagree with someone's faith or religion that is wrong and politically incorrect. That just doesn't make sense to me. Now, I get not being hateful but saying all faiths are equal and valid just means that you don't actually believe in any of them.

shrewsbury
04-18-2012, 03:18 PM
i have not only studied different religions but also different christian sects.

my best friends consists of a budhist, 2 jews, an atheist, and 3 christians, we often discuss religion and they are all well educated, smart, and great people

hawk2618
04-18-2012, 03:25 PM
veggieman,you almost make me think you treat religion choices like "lets make a deal"
Just because one believes in one religion,you make one think that picking whats behind door #3 will be a better religion,or as you say,better or stronger faith.Most believe in the faith what they were born into this world as.My parents have never steered me wrong.Should I start questioning them now? ~~Dave C.

mrveggieman
04-18-2012, 03:39 PM
veggieman,you almost make me think you treat religion choices like "lets make a deal"
Just because one believes in one religion,you make one think that picking whats behind door #3 will be a better religion,or as you say,better or stronger faith.Most believe in the faith what they were born into this world as.My parents have never steered me wrong.Should I start questioning them now? ~~Dave C.


I would never think that any parent would intentionally do anything that would damn their child or anyone else for that matter to hell. That being said more than likely your parents are following the religion that their parents taught them, and their parents taught them that and so on and so forth. Mabey they are right, or mabey they are wrong but none of us will know until we die. My only question is how can someone be so confident in their faith if they don't have anything to compare it against?

hawk2618
04-18-2012, 03:57 PM
To some,there is nothing to compare it to.Its their only belief.Anything else is non-existent to them.Anyone can have a belief of anything.Lets use Ben Franklin for an example.I've never seen him,nor has my parents or even their parents for that matter,but we all believe and trust it is true he existed through our history books,or should one believe electricity happened some other way?? After all we can't be truly sure,can we??

mrveggieman
04-18-2012, 03:59 PM
To some,there is nothing to compare it to.Its their only belief.Anything else is non-existent to them.Anyone can have a belief of anything.Lets use Ben Franklin for an example.I've never seen him,nor has my parents or even their parents for that matter,but we all believe and trust it is true he existed through our history books,or should one believe electricity happened some other way?? After all we can't be truly sure,can we??


There is more concrete existance to of the life if Ben Franklin than it is of Jesus.

Star_Cards
04-18-2012, 04:13 PM
veggieman,you almost make me think you treat religion choices like "lets make a deal"
Just because one believes in one religion,you make one think that picking whats behind door #3 will be a better religion,or as you say,better or stronger faith.Most believe in the faith what they were born into this world as.My parents have never steered me wrong.Should I start questioning them now? ~~Dave C.

I don't think he is saying a religious choice is like "lets make a deal". However it is up to everyone to choose which path to take. I think his question is a good one especially considered it came from the statement that most people follow a religion based of off family tradition/knowledge. I doubt that many people switch or even think of switching religions if they have such a rooted base from their upbringing, but it is an interesting question.

I don't think he means to say that your parents steered you or anyone wrong. Not sure why there's what I perceive as an offense to his question.

Star_Cards
04-18-2012, 04:17 PM
To some,there is nothing to compare it to.Its their only belief.Anything else is non-existent to them.Anyone can have a belief of anything.Lets use Ben Franklin for an example.I've never seen him,nor has my parents or even their parents for that matter,but we all believe and trust it is true he existed through our history books,or should one believe electricity happened some other way?? After all we can't be truly sure,can we??

comparing a concrete figure to something of complete faith is apples and oranges. Sure we never will have met B Franklin, but there are historical documents and such that can be called upon to know that he existed and did the things that history claims. True B Franklin could have been just a made up person that did nothing that history says he did, but his life is pretty well documented when it comes to knowing he existed and believing he existed.

habsheaven
04-18-2012, 04:28 PM
comparing a concrete figure to something of complete faith is apples and oranges. Sure we never will have met B Franklin, but there are historical documents and such that can be called upon to know that he existed and did the things that history claims. True B Franklin could have been just a made up person that did nothing that history says he did, but his life is pretty well documented when it comes to knowing he existed and believing he existed.

And what would be the motive to "create" Ben Franklin?

Star_Cards
04-18-2012, 04:32 PM
And what would be the motive to "create" Ben Franklin?

to cover up the existence of aliens, of course.

obviously, I don't believe that but since I don't have a picture of him and I in my facebook profile pictures to prove it first hand I humored him a little bit.

hawk2618
04-18-2012, 05:02 PM
(I don't think he means to say that your parents steered you or anyone wrong. Not sure why there's what I perceive as an offense to his question.)

I was no where near offended,if thats what it looked like.I was simply stating that many beliefs are very strong and any other beliefs are non-existent to them.Others may believe what they will.I'm ok with that.

onto my next post:

How is it apples to oranges???? There's historical documents stating he,Ben Franklin existed.Isn't the Bible a historical document that says Jesus existed? If the Bible is heresay,than historical documents of Franklin can also be considered heresay no?? You can't have your cake and eat it too!

mrveggieman
04-18-2012, 05:07 PM
(I don't think he means to say that your parents steered you or anyone wrong. Not sure why there's what I perceive as an offense to his question.)

I was no where near offended,if thats what it looked like.I was simply stating that many beliefs are very strong and any other beliefs are non-existent to them.Others may believe what they will.I'm ok with that.

onto my next post:

How is it apples to oranges???? There's historical documents stating he,Ben Franklin existed.Isn't the Bible a historical document that says Jesus existed? If the Bible is heresay,than historical documents of Franklin can also be considered heresay no?? You can't have your cake and eat it too!


Any religious book can be considered a historical doccument. Using that logic you should believe in the Koran as a book of truth. If not why?

habsheaven
04-18-2012, 05:37 PM
The bible is nothing more than a ficticious book scattered with historical reference points, just as the Quran and Torah are too.

boba
04-18-2012, 05:39 PM
(I don't think he means to say that your parents steered you or anyone wrong. Not sure why there's what I perceive as an offense to his question.)

I was no where near offended,if thats what it looked like.I was simply stating that many beliefs are very strong and any other beliefs are non-existent to them.Others may believe what they will.I'm ok with that.

onto my next post:

How is it apples to oranges???? There's historical documents stating he,Ben Franklin existed.Isn't the Bible a historical document that says Jesus existed? If the Bible is heresay,than historical documents of Franklin can also be considered heresay no?? You can't have your cake and eat it too!

I would say the Bible is historical by it's archaeological correctness and knowledge of things that they shouldn't have known at the time (such as the water cycle) more then what you say here.

hawk2618
04-18-2012, 05:49 PM
But you get my point.Thank you.I just didn't know exactly how to word it.

habsheaven
04-18-2012, 05:52 PM
I would say the Bible is historical by it's archaeological correctness and knowledge of things that they shouldn't have known at the time (such as the water cycle) more then what you say here.

What "water cycle" are you referring to?

boba
04-18-2012, 06:30 PM
What "water cycle" are you referring to?

I am only aware of one water cycle.

look at these verses. Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, 11:3, Job 26:8, and Amos 9:6.

shrewsbury
04-18-2012, 08:21 PM
then what about the mayans and other ancient people who had "knowledge" that we would seem to think is out of place?

habsheaven
04-18-2012, 10:26 PM
I am only aware of one water cycle.

look at these verses. Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, 11:3, Job 26:8, and Amos 9:6.

You think that figuring out that clouds bring rain 2000 years ago is advanced? That the air contains water is advanced? As mentioned above. Take a look at those heathens called the Mayans. They were advanced. Solving the water cycle is elementary.

boba
04-19-2012, 01:05 AM
You think that figuring out that clouds bring rain 2000 years ago is advanced? That the air contains water is advanced? As mentioned above. Take a look at those heathens called the Mayans. They were advanced. Solving the water cycle is elementary.

Yet it was not know for many, many years after the bible stated it. It wasn't elementary for the people of the time.

My main point is that the Bible is correct archaeologically and scientifically.

boba
04-19-2012, 01:05 AM
double post

mrveggieman
04-19-2012, 09:53 AM
The bible is nothing more than a ficticious book scattered with historical reference points, just as the Quran and Torah are too.


FYI the Torah is the part of the OT that Moses wrote and the Injeel is considered the NT. Other than that carry on. :winking0071:

Star_Cards
04-19-2012, 09:58 AM
Yet it was not know for many, many years after the bible stated it. It wasn't elementary for the people of the time.

My main point is that the Bible is correct archaeologically and scientifically.

just because a book has some historically correct references does not then make everything else written in it to be true. Who's to say that these references weren't included to bolster the religion to the masses. If there weren't historic benchmarks throughout people would be more apt to completely dismiss it as fiction.

*censored*
04-19-2012, 10:34 AM
Actually, yes.

I was baptized a Lutheran and attended a Lutheran church until I was 8 years old. Meanwhile, about 2 years before that, I had already decided the idea of God and Jesus made little to no sense. So they lost me pretty quickly.

Been attending a Unitarian Universalist group ever since and most closely associate myself with an atheistic Buddhist outlook.

shrewsbury
04-19-2012, 11:08 AM
so your study of christianity was complete by age 6???

habsheaven
04-19-2012, 11:11 AM
so your study of christianity was complete by age 6???

Obviously he was a quick study. I had Santa figured out by then but it took me another 5 years to become leery of Christianity.

shrewsbury
04-19-2012, 11:53 AM
really by age 11?

i attended church and bible school at those ages, my parent weren't very religious, so the concept of god was not so important. it was not till i was old enough and mature enough that i began looking at religion seriously. from hard core penticostals to toasim, and though i am a christian, my veiws are not stuck in the man put together bible, but other works, study, and paying attention.

by the age of six i was not mature enough to know really anything, and by age 11 i didn't really care.

i am about 5-10 years behind you two, i must be slow!

habsheaven
04-19-2012, 12:19 PM
really by age 11?

i attended church and bible school at those ages, my parent weren't very religious, so the concept of god was not so important. it was not till i was old enough and mature enough that i began looking at religion seriously. from hard core penticostals to toasim, and though i am a christian, my veiws are not stuck in the man put together bible, but other works, study, and paying attention.

by the age of six i was not mature enough to know really anything, and by age 11 i didn't really care.

i am about 5-10 years behind you two, i must be slow!

I was an avid reader as a child (still am). When my godmother bought me a Bible one year I began to read it right away. Very eager to be able to say I had read it. It didn't take me long to realize that it was make believe.

mrveggieman
04-19-2012, 12:32 PM
I was an avid reader as a child (still am). When my godmother bought me a Bible one year I began to read it right away. Very eager to be able to say I had read it. It didn't take me long to realize that it was make believe.


What exactly did you read in it that made you believe that it was make believe?

habsheaven
04-19-2012, 12:53 PM
What exactly did you read in it that made you believe that it was make believe?

You name it. Pretty much everything.

hawk2618
04-19-2012, 08:07 PM
I was an avid reader as a child (still am). When my godmother bought me a Bible one year I began to read it right away. Very eager to be able to say I had read it. It didn't take me long to realize that it was make believe


Just curious,how old were you when your Godmother bought you the Bible? and now that its make believe,do you still refer to her as a Godmother??

habsheaven
04-19-2012, 08:34 PM
I was an avid reader as a child (still am). When my godmother bought me a Bible one year I began to read it right away. Very eager to be able to say I had read it. It didn't take me long to realize that it was make believe


Just curious,how old were you when your Godmother bought you the Bible? and now that its make believe,do you still refer to her as a Godmother??

I was 11. Yes, she will always be my godmother (RIP Aunt Dee). Just because I do not believe doesn't mean I disrespect my godparents. From their POV, they believed and took the role responsibly. (not like God-parents of today, that think being a god-parent means you buy the kid presents on birthdays and Xmas). I had many respectful conversations with both them and my parents. We agree to disagree.

shrewsbury
04-19-2012, 08:56 PM
[QUOTE] (not like God-parents of today, that think being a god-parent means you buy the kid presents on birthdays and Xmas). [QUOTE]

why was this needed? do you know all godparents of today or even when you were young?

I am sure she was wonderful but why try to damper others experiences with their godparents?

habsheaven
04-19-2012, 09:08 PM
[quote] (not like God-parents of today, that think being a god-parent means you buy the kid presents on birthdays and Xmas). [quote]

why was this needed? do you know all godparents of today or even when you were young?

I am sure she was wonderful but why try to damper others experiences with their godparents?

I am not trying to damper anyone else's experience. I was expressing my personal observations of all the godparents that I know. None of them take the role seriously. If anyone that reads my comment is hurt by my observations I suggest they re-examine their relationships with their godparents or godchildren.

FWIW, I am my nephew's godfather. I told my sister upfront that I would not be offended or hurt if she chose someone else to be his godfather. She knew my views on religion and still insisted on it. The best I could do was attend his religious milestones and keep my mouth shut. I certainly could not perform the role required of me.

shrewsbury
04-19-2012, 09:41 PM
not about that, it's about being negative to everybody else but you and yours. you don't know anyone else here or any of their relationships, so to suggest yours was so great (which is truly a good thing) not like godparents of today was just mean and stereotyping. think about all the godparents there are and the few you know and the fact you are one.

then your response of


If anyone that reads my comment is hurt by my observations I suggest they re-examine their relationships with their godparents or godchildren.

just have to keep it going

why do you need to speculate about anyone else? i am sure your godmother was great (by your words) so why put a bad spot on any else's or yourself?(you are a godparent)

it's ok for you to have something good or great, but it's also ok for others to have these things as well.

i am sure you will keep the memory of your godmother alive by passing it on to your nephew, and many years from now he will remember how great his godparent was. that's what's important and great, and doing this makes you a great person. why ruin that with negative, unneeded comments?

i guess the reality is it's none of my business

habsheaven
04-19-2012, 10:34 PM
I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I am not trying to be negative. Sorry you think that I am. I am stating my opinion based on my personal observations because another poster asked about my relationship with my godmother. Seemed natural to make a commentary on what I think of the practice.

And I do not have to "keep anything going". I made a sincere comment. I cannot help it if you take it as a negative. That's on you.

shrewsbury
04-19-2012, 11:46 PM
okay

*censored*
04-20-2012, 12:02 AM
so your study of christianity was complete by age 6???

I just figured the line they were feeding me was complete bunk. The sensationalism of Jesus' alleged accomplishments was too much for me, even at that age. That's all.

shrewsbury
04-20-2012, 12:08 AM
that's cool. are you spiritual at all, evolutionist, or don't really care?

*censored*
04-20-2012, 12:09 AM
I'm an atheistic Buddhist, largely.

shrewsbury
04-20-2012, 12:11 AM
my teacher/mentor is a buddhist and does not believe in any god. he is also one of the greatest people i have ever met.

hawk2618
04-20-2012, 12:17 AM
When I was 11,all the books I read ,I also thought were make believe.Maybe I should've read the bible then. ~~Dave C.

*censored*
04-20-2012, 12:22 AM
It's a religion that just speaks to me. The fact that the Dalai Lama has said "If science contradicts your Buddhism, then you've got your Buddhism wrong" is great; fallibility of the belief is something you don't see much in religion.

Look at the history of Christianity. Galileo was censored by the Catholic Church for his belief in the earth rotating around the sun. And now today, ideas on evolution are being shot down by religious groups as well.

The Buddhists, instead of saying "No, you're wrong" are willing to go "Hmm, well maybe we're wrong."

shrewsbury
04-20-2012, 12:26 AM
us christians are thought to try to convert everyone, but me, i think great people can come from many different schools of thought, and would miss the honor of hearing them sharing their ideas, and even luckier to be able to share time and experiences with

*censored*
04-20-2012, 12:28 AM
The state of Texas needs more people with that sort of view.

A friend who is in the Unitarian Universalist group I'm a part of told another friend that she attends a UU group, and the friend said "Oh, well... That's that 'believe whatever just makes you feel good' church, isn't it?" *facepalm*

In Texas, it seems the views are Church of Christ, Baptist, Methodist, and Wrong.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 01:19 AM
The state of Texas needs more people with that sort of view.

A friend who is in the Unitarian Universalist group I'm a part of told another friend that she attends a UU group, and the friend said "Oh, well... That's that 'believe whatever just makes you feel good' church, isn't it?" *facepalm*

In Texas, it seems the views are Church of Christ, Baptist, Methodist, and Wrong.

as a church of christ minister in texas i do understand what you are saying. I guess my question is, if you take the venom away, is that persons statement about universalism actually wrong? Every universalist I have talked to or read have basically picked and chosen the pieces of different religions and decided which parts they like. Not knocking it, that is just what my exposure has been. Is that incorrect?

*censored*
04-20-2012, 11:21 AM
My question to that is why should anyone then look at something like a religion and go "Well, I agree with most of this, but not all of it. I guess I have to start agreeing with what I find wrong." To me, that makes no sense. Take what you like and leave the rest. Likewise, why restrict yourself to just one world view? If parts of Christianity make sense to you, as well as parts of Buddhism, and parts of secular humanism, why should you have to pick just one and thus be required to accept those parts that don't make sense?

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 11:35 AM
My question to that is why should anyone then look at something like a religion and go "Well, I agree with most of this, but not all of it. I guess I have to start agreeing with what I find wrong." To me, that makes no sense. Take what you like and leave the rest. Likewise, why restrict yourself to just one world view? If parts of Christianity make sense to you, as well as parts of Buddhism, and parts of secular humanism, why should you have to pick just one and thus be required to accept those parts that don't make sense?

it ultimately comes down to whether we think we are the be all end all of the universe. If we believe in a God, and therefore believe there is something bigger and more important than us, that should effect our belief system. If we think nothing is more important than us, then it makes sense to only follow the religious ideas that you like. It is the difference in a God-centered focus on religion and a me-centered focus on religion.

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 11:44 AM
it ultimately comes down to whether we think we are the be all end all of the universe. If we believe in a God, and therefore believe there is something bigger and more important than us, that should effect our belief system. If we think nothing is more important than us, then it makes sense to only follow the religious ideas that you like. It is the difference in a God-centered focus on religion and a me-centered focus on religion.


That goes back to saying that YOUR idea of God is correct and all others are incorrect. Believe it or not someone can still believe in God and or Jesus but not believe in your version of them.

*censored*
04-20-2012, 11:50 AM
But even with a "God-centered" focus on religion, that only brings about two further questions: 1. How do we know that what the religion is peddling is really what the religion's particular god said, intended, and wanted? and 2. How does one know which god is the right one for them? Why should a person follow a god whose demands don't fit in with their own reasoning?

For example, if you take the protestant view of the biblical god justifying salvation by faith alone, I can't understand why would anyone want to follow this. Basically, it teaches that just because Jesus died for our sins, then it doesn't matter what we do because as long as we believe, bam, we're saved. It doesn't matter how you act toward your fellow man because as long as you truly believe that Jesus is the son of God and died for you, you're saved. But yet, someone who is the most moral and ethical person in the world, but doesn't accept that, they're going to hell. How in any way is this fair?

That's one area where I think the Catholics have it right over the protestants. If there's a God out there, he's more inclined to judge you via your faith shown through your actions.

Frankly, I think if there's a god of some form out there, he'd be a fair and reasonable one. The Buddha said "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." And if we're supposed to believe that the God of the New Testament is a loving and caring one, then why would he do something like that where an evil believer is celebrated while a good non-believer is punished?

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 11:55 AM
it ultimately comes down to whether we think we are the be all end all of the universe. If we believe in a God, and therefore believe there is something bigger and more important than us, that should effect our belief system. If we think nothing is more important than us, then it makes sense to only follow the religious ideas that you like. It is the difference in a God-centered focus on religion and a me-centered focus on religion.

What happened to the "we think we are no important than anything else" crowd? I am not "me-centered" or "god-centered". I am a human being living in an environment with a wide variety of life. None more important than the next.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 12:03 PM
That goes back to saying that YOUR idea of God is correct and all others are incorrect. Believe it or not someone can still believe in God and or Jesus but not believe in your version of them.

no, it goes back to saying that for me, the God I believe in is God. Could I be wrong, of course. The only justification for the potluck (take what you want, leave the rest) school of religious belief is to believe that you are smarter than anyone else who has ever lived and that the purpose of religion and God is your own happiness.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 12:05 PM
What happened to the "we think we are no important than anything else" crowd? I am not "me-centered" or "god-centered". I am a human being living in an environment with a wide variety of life. None more important than the next.

sorry, i was referring to believers only. not saying people who don't believe in god are me-centered. i don't think i am more important than anyone else. but in every aspect of our lives we have things that we think are right. sports, politics, food, clothes, religion, etc. For me to think i am right about religion doesn't mean i think i am better or more important than someone else.

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 01:02 PM
sorry, i was referring to believers only. not saying people who don't believe in god are me-centered. i don't think i am more important than anyone else. but in every aspect of our lives we have things that we think are right. sports, politics, food, clothes, religion, etc. For me to think i am right about religion doesn't mean i think i am better or more important than someone else.

Granted, but being a believer means that you do think man is more important than everything else.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 01:04 PM
Granted, but being a believer means that you do think man is more important than everything else.

more important than animals and plants? just making sure i understand what you are saying. i do not believe I am more important than any other person but yes, i do believe people are more important than a tree or a dog.

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 01:30 PM
more important than animals and plants? just making sure i understand what you are saying. i do not believe I am more important than any other person but yes, i do believe people are more important than a tree or a dog.

That's what I was saying.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 01:35 PM
That's what I was saying.

but is that kind of thinking reserved for people who believe in God? if a car left the road and was about to hit a person and a dog, is there anyone who wouldn't save the person? Don't we all think a human life is worth more than the life of any other creature?

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 04:14 PM
but is that kind of thinking reserved for people who believe in God? if a car left the road and was about to hit a person and a dog, is there anyone who wouldn't save the person? Don't we all think a human life is worth more than the life of any other creature?

Okay, apparently that is not what I was saying. I would expect a human being to value human lives over the lives of other species. Let me try again. I was referring to the belief that humans were created in God's image and animals, plants and everything else were created just for our benefit.

I do not subscribe to that belief.

Here's a picture of what I am trying to say.











http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/398347_10150809806591756_542371755_11836941_297979 249_n.jpg

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 04:23 PM
okay, apparently that is not what i was saying. I would expect a human being to value human lives over the lives of other species. Let me try again. I was referring to the belief that humans were created in god's image and animals, plants and everything else were created just for our benefit.

I do not subscribe to that belief.

Here's a picture of what i am trying to say.











http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/398347_10150809806591756_542371755_11836941_297979 249_n.jpg


+1,000,000

mjbowman
04-20-2012, 05:21 PM
In answer to the orginal question, I was forced into christianity as a child. As I got older I found it for myself and started asking question of other religions that only Christianity could answer. I see the "Coexist" bumper stickers and think that if ALL religions are true how come there are so many differences on how to get to heaven. It seems that they can't agree on if there is a God, who was Jesus, is there a Hell what happens when we die. What takes away sin, what is sin. Where do we go when we die?
There are things that are writen in the bible that science is finding out. Science views things in (time, space matter and energy) God states in Gen 1 In the beginning (time)God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter) Later He said Let there be light(energy). There is too much science that reveals that men are not the smartest men in the room. But for us to realize that there is something bigger than us is scares us to think that their may be accountablity for our lives. If there is no God then all things are permissable Jean Paul Sartre There for Hitler got away with it. We as humans want justice and truth. The need for truth is so ingrained in us that if we are lied to it hurts us because we automatically EXPECT truth from people. Children do. I believe that expectation is given to us from the God that created us because he is truth.

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 09:05 PM
In answer to the orginal question, I was forced into christianity as a child. As I got older I found it for myself and started asking question of other religions that only Christianity could answer. I see the "Coexist" bumper stickers and think that if ALL religions are true how come there are so many differences on how to get to heaven. It seems that they can't agree on if there is a God, who was Jesus, is there a Hell what happens when we die. What takes away sin, what is sin. Where do we go when we die?
There are things that are writen in the bible that science is finding out. Science views things in (time, space matter and energy) God states in Gen 1 In the beginning (time)God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter) Later He said Let there be light(energy). There is too much science that reveals that men are not the smartest men in the room. But for us to realize that there is something bigger than us is scares us to think that their may be accountablity for our lives. If there is no God then all things are permissable Jean Paul Sartre There for Hitler got away with it. We as humans want justice and truth. The need for truth is so ingrained in us that if we are lied to it hurts us because we automatically EXPECT truth from people. Children do. I believe that expectation is given to us from the God that created us because he is truth.

1st bold: There are things in the Bible that science KNOW are UNTRUE.

2nd bold: Are you calling God a man?

3rd bold: This is an absolute lie. And it is one of the most disrespectful things Christians say ALL the time.

4th bold: Really? What world are you living in?

mjbowman
04-21-2012, 08:06 PM
Science can only be true. Truth is always reveled never discovered. How men intrepret it is where the problem lies Science says NOTHING Scientist do and they intrepret it through their worldview.

No not at all.

It was a famous French Philosopher that said it I just requoted it. I did have a athiest tell me that the bible was written to give basic morals and to keep people from raping and killing one another. If that is true then by outlawing the bible and denoucing God what would happen? Darwinism supports a survivial of the fittest society. Personally< I think that is a young man's game. If one wants to see a society run by darwinism then look in your penal system. How is that statement a lie? If there is no right or wrong just what we feel with no concequences. If there are concequences then if a person kills themself after horrible acts there is no justice. I think that is the thinking of people that commit suicide after going on killing sprees.

Therefore should I just disregard your whole rebuttal because it isn't true and you aren't telling me the truth. Or is it true to you being that it supports your worldview?

habsheaven
04-21-2012, 09:31 PM
My responses are in bold.


Science can only be true. Truth is always reveled never discovered. How men intrepret it is where the problem lies Science says NOTHING Scientist do and they intrepret it through their worldview.

What are you trying to say here??? Is this "religious speak" for "Everything in the bible is true, because God says it is."?

No not at all.

I didn't think so. You must mean the "alien" men.

It was a famous French Philosopher that said it I just requoted it. I did have a athiest tell me that the bible was written to give basic morals and to keep people from raping and killing one another. If that is true then by outlawing the bible and denoucing God what would happen? Darwinism supports a survivial of the fittest society. Personally< I think that is a young man's game. If one wants to see a society run by darwinism then look in your penal system. How is that statement a lie? If there is no right or wrong just what we feel with no concequences. If there are concequences then if a person kills themself after horrible acts there is no justice. I think that is the thinking of people that commit suicide after going on killing sprees.

The presence of a God does not determine whether something is right or wrong. There are (and have been) many societies with no concept of God and they still manage to know right from wrong.

Therefore should I just disregard your whole rebuttal because it isn't true and you aren't telling me the truth. Or is it true to you being that it supports your worldview?

No, you shouldn't. You claimed that people "automatically expect the truth". My disagreement with that does not say that everyone is therefore lieing. It says that everyone does not EXPECT people to always tell the truth.

mjbowman
04-22-2012, 01:03 AM
The presence of a God does not determine whether something is right or wrong. There are (and have been) many societies with no concept of God and they still manage to know right from wrong.

I disagree with this statement in that, How can you know something is right or wrong unless you have a standard by which to judge it? For example, If we both believe that stealing is right and I steal from you you KNOW that I did something wrong to you. It is programmed in you to know that some things are wrong. Where did that moral code come from and in order to have a preprogrammed moral code there must a moral code giver.

shrewsbury
04-22-2012, 01:20 AM
would it be stealing or taking? and perhaps greed is why we have a problem with it, not because we think it is wrong.

people can steal and have no issue with it at all, people do it all day long.
others won't steal because they fell it is wrong, because they have morals and values, these are not encoded in our genetics.

habsheaven
04-22-2012, 09:13 AM
The presence of a God does not determine whether something is right or wrong. There are (and have been) many societies with no concept of God and they still manage to know right from wrong.

I disagree with this statement in that, How can you know something is right or wrong unless you have a standard by which to judge it? For example, If we both believe that stealing is right and I steal from you you KNOW that I did something wrong to you. It is programmed in you to know that some things are wrong. Where did that moral code come from and in order to have a preprogrammed moral code there must a moral code giver.

The sense of right and wrong comes from learned behaviour passed on generation by generation in a society. Society learns what behaviours are successful and which are not. The society you are born into is the moral code giver.

I would bet YOUR moral code giver says homosexuality is wrong. My moral code giver says it isn't wrong. How can that be if we have the SAME moral code giver?

shrewsbury
04-22-2012, 04:10 PM
i think the individual plays an important role. two people growing up in the same society or even same household can have different morals and values.

i do agree they are given to you through the society you live in, but what you choose to do with them is up to you.