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shrewsbury
04-19-2012, 08:47 PM
well this was do to come, lets keep it civil.

it would be nice if we don't generalize this but keep it specific.

what in the bible do you think is true? (please don't answer none or everything, we can take it one piece at a time)

what in the bible do you think is false, a lie, or the truth stretched?

some examples;

noah's ark

moses parting the sea

jesus not existing

i would love to here both sides and have no problem debating either side, facts are facts, beliefs are beliefs, faith is faith

please realize there is hardly any way to be right or wrong

habsheaven
04-19-2012, 10:00 PM
True:

The Flood.
The existence of Jesus.

False:

Everything created in 6 days.
Adam being first man. (obviously Eve being first woman)
Something about a snake and an apple.
10 Commandments.
Characters living to impossible ages.
House of Babel being the explanation of different cultures/languages/people.
Moses parting the sea (probably an embellishment)
Virgin birth.
Resurrection.
Walking on water
Turning water into wine

*censored*
04-19-2012, 11:08 PM
habsheaven pretty much named what I would have.

I believe there was a flood at one time. The fact that every culture has some sort of a flood story would seem to indicate this as something that actually happened in some form.

And I'm sure Jesus existed. I just don't buy into the whole trinity thing in the slightest. I think he was just a guy with a lot of good ideas and tried to make them known. Maybe he knew a little sleight of hand, parlor tricks, mass hypnosis. The David Copperfield of his day, if you will.

It's a good book for history. I once had a teacher tell me "If you don't know the Bible, you can't know history." And he's right. Note that he said knowing the bible, not believing in it. Big difference.

Aside from that, the stories largely stretch the bounds of credibility.

habsheaven
04-20-2012, 08:22 AM
Here's a thought on the "virgin" birth. How did this come about? Did Mary tell everyone for 9 months that she was a virgin? Did anyone ask? Why would anyone believe her? In other words, when was this claim first made and who verified it? For that matter, how could they verify it? Yet millions of people believe it? Why, because it adds to the mystic of Jesus?

DaClyde
04-20-2012, 08:45 AM
It's a good book for history. I once had a teacher tell me "If you don't know the Bible, you can't know history." And he's right. Note that he said knowing the bible, not believing in it. Big difference.

What is often so telling about someone who makes that sort of statement is that they are quite often ignorant on the history OF the Bible, i.e. the conditions in the world in the places where the books were written (context is everything), how it was assembled (look for blank stares when mentioning the Council of Nicea), how it was propagated, who actually wrote the books, how politics of any given period afterward colored the translations, etc.

In the context of the times, much of the basis for what became the Bible was gathered from other surrounding religions. I find the history of the Bible itself to be immensely more interesting than anything actually in the book. Though, what was the deal with the giants mentioned in Genesis 6?

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 08:52 AM
I go to church and would be considered a christian but I am no way a bible expert and honestly cannot say with 100% certanity that any particular part of the bible is indeed true or false for that matter. I do believe that it is impossible to take the bible 100% literally and believe everything in there because of the obvious contridictions, misinterpertations and not to mention most christians picking and chosing what they want to go by and ignoring what they don't want to hear. For example if they don't like something in the OT they immediately run to the NT to look for something to contradict it. The perfect example is Genesis 1:29-31. However most christians clamor to the OT prohibition with homosexuality because it suits their agenda but ignore Jesus message of love, forgivness and tollerance.

*censored*
04-20-2012, 10:25 AM
What is often so telling about someone who makes that sort of statement is that they are quite often ignorant on the history OF the Bible, i.e. the conditions in the world in the places where the books were written (context is everything), how it was assembled (look for blank stares when mentioning the Council of Nicea), how it was propagated, who actually wrote the books, how politics of any given period afterward colored the translations, etc.

In the context of the times, much of the basis for what became the Bible was gathered from other surrounding religions. I find the history of the Bible itself to be immensely more interesting than anything actually in the book. Though, what was the deal with the giants mentioned in Genesis 6?

That's 90% of it, actually-- knowing the entire history of the Bible. Belief in it or not, even I as an atheist can't argue against it being the most influential and important book in the last 2000 years of Western civilization. And not because of what's in it, but because of everything surrounding it-- its content, its history, its controversies on what's in and what's out, and how it has been used for and against the people of the world at large.

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 10:32 AM
I go to church and would be considered a christian but I am no way a bible expert and honestly cannot say with 100% certanity that any particular part of the bible is indeed true or false for that matter. I do believe that it is impossible to take the bible 100% literally and believe everything in there because of the obvious contridictions, misinterpertations and not to mention most christians picking and chosing what they want to go by and ignoring what they don't want to hear. For example if they don't like something in the OT they immediately run to the NT to look for something to contradict it. The perfect example is Genesis 1:29-31. However most christians clamor to the OT prohibition with homosexuality because it suits their agenda but ignore Jesus message of love, forgivness and tollerance.

that is because God himself overturns genesis 1:29-31; twice. Fell free to show me where jesus said it is ok to engage in homosexual acts. Jesus' message of love, forgiveness, and tolerance does not equal jesus saying "ok, all those sins that were in the old testament, those are cool now."

shrewsbury
04-20-2012, 11:53 AM
Jesus' message of love, forgiveness, and tolerance does not equal jesus saying "ok, all those sins that were in the old testament, those are cool now."
__________________

maybe not cool, but the fact of us judging is not cool. we need to forgive, understand, tolerate, and love, not tell gays or jews they will burn in hell. or smokers and drinkers they are sinners. we need to worry about our relationship with god and help who we can when needed

mrveggieman
04-20-2012, 12:01 PM
maybe not cool, but the fact of us judging is not cool. we need to forgive, understand, tolerate, and love, not tell gays or jews they will burn in hell. or smokers and drinkers they are sinners. we need to worry about our relationship with god and help who we can when needed


CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

ensbergcollector
04-20-2012, 12:02 PM
maybe not cool, but the fact of us judging is not cool. we need to forgive, understand, tolerate, and love, not tell gays or jews they will burn in hell. or smokers and drinkers they are sinners. we need to worry about our relationship with god and help who we can when needed

i agree completely. we have no right to tell anyone they are going to hell. But to pretend something is not a sin when it is a sin is not love. Loving someone means loving them, not being ok with the sin in their lives. If a family has an intervention with an alcoholic, is that being unloving? I have had multiple homosexual friends, some that I have worked with, some that I went to school with. All knew I was not ok with that aspect of their life and yet all would tell you I loved them and respected them.
The problem I think we have found ourselves in is that few people seem to realize there are more than 2 options. We act as though our only choices are to 1). judge and condemn people to hell or 2). being completely ok with whatever people do.

If we have a friend who constantly lies, would we not call them out on their lying and tell them it isn't ok? If we have a friend who is verbally abusive to their spouse, is the loving and tolerant thing to stand by and say nothing? I am not promoting judgement or hate. I am saying there is a middle ground where you can love, tolerate, and accept someone without being ok with the sin in their life.

JustAlex
05-07-2012, 03:08 AM
True:

The Flood.
The existence of Jesus.

LOL, how is the Flood True?

There is absolutely no evidence for it!

Not to mention the fact that MILLIONS of animal species would NEVER fit into that boat.

As for the existence of Jesus.....yeah, I'm sure there was a man named Jesus that lived in that time and he was crucified.....but he was most likely NOT God or resurrect.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 08:01 AM
Since A good list was started I can work from that

The Great Flood/Rain of 40 days and 40 nights-there is a great deal of evidence that shows this did happen.

The existence of Jesus-there are too many accounts in many books across many cultures to prove that he does exist. -it is the rest that i question-the healing-rising from the dead

Everything created in 6 days-to be that one omnipotent power created the heavens the earth? Sorry cant believe this at all. Too much evidence that this is impossible
but makes for a great read.

Adam being first man. (obviously Eve being first woman) see above

Something about a snake and an apple.

10 Commandments.- this has been questioned and debated for years. Did Moses bring down a stone tablet with the Commandments that are the corner stone for our morals and laws today?

Characters living to impossible ages

House of Babel being the explanation of different cultures/languages/people.

Moses parting the sea (probably an embellishment)- actually proved he across at a part and time of low tide and the water was very low. the rest of the story is man made

Virgin birth-another man made story in my opinion

Creationism-to much evidence against this 100% false!

The bible is a well written book by MAN...as with any book you have to have some belief in the writer....

as far the part of being homosexual being a sin? again this book is written by MAN

Lets be honest. Today if someone worked up to us and said I speak for "God" and you are living in Sin...you might think he is a nut job...in fact i am sure every ward you enter will have one person has one.

But i know many people are I would consider the sane and read the Bible and have very strong Faith in "God". They Pray and continue to pray. They believe the bible and what has been written. I am not going to judge what the believe. as Well I ask that they dont judge me.

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 08:01 AM
LOL, how is the Flood True?

There is absolutely no evidence for it!

Not to mention the fact that MILLIONS of animal species would NEVER fit into that boat.

As for the existence of Jesus.....yeah, I'm sure there was a man named Jesus that lived in that time and he was crucified.....but he was most likely NOT God or resurrect.

Alex, records and stories of a large flood are recorded in many societies around the world, not just the Bible. I never said NOAH's ARC was true. Of course, that part of the story is a fable. Similarily, I believe Jesus existed but that doesn't mean I buy into any of the many embellishments written about him.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 08:10 AM
Actually they believe they may have found pieces of an "ARK" but they cannot say 100% they are part of Noah's Ark

JustAlex
05-07-2012, 08:38 AM
Alex, records and stories of a large flood are recorded in many societies around the world, not just the Bible. I never said NOAH's ARC was true. Of course, that part of the story is a fable. Similarily, I believe Jesus existed but that doesn't mean I buy into any of the many embellishments written about him.

Oh, I see...

Ok, I thought you meant the whole story of "the flood" was true.

Which is just absurd.

Oh and LOL at the explaination that the Bible authors gave to a rainbow.

Of course they had no explanation for it so they made it up!!!

Thankfully, science has taught us that our world is NOT flat, it is NOT the center of the universe, the sun does NOT revolve around the earth, and evolution is a basically a FACT.

The Bible is nothing more than mythology to explain the inexplicable world to the ancients!


Unfortunately, we live in the 21st century and grown men and women still believe in fairy tales which have absolutely no proof and deny the evidence that science has provided.

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 09:39 AM
Oh, I see...

Ok, I thought you meant the whole story of "the flood" was true.

Which is just absurd.

Oh and LOL at the explaination that the Bible authors gave to a rainbow.

Of course they had no explanation for it so they made it up!!!

Thankfully, science has taught us that our world is NOT flat, it is NOT the center of the universe, the sun does NOT revolve around the earth, and evolution is a basically a FACT.

The Bible is nothing more than mythology to explain the inexplicable world to the ancients!


Unfortunately, we live in the 21st century and grown men and women still believe in fairy tales which have absolutely no proof and deny the evidence that science has provided.

I don't think I have ever heard this one. Care to expand on it?

shrewsbury
05-07-2012, 10:54 AM
Unfortunately, we live in the 21st century and grown men and women still believe in fairy tales which have absolutely no proof and deny the evidence that science has provided.

again, science has proven little. nearly all hypothesis have not been proven true and change, whetehr it is about evolution, human evolution, extinction of the dinosaurs, migration of ancient people, and a whole slew of others, science has provided great ideas, but ideas that conflict with eachother. common sense does not equal correct ideas, but logic that we can understand, and to think it is easy to understand god, well that's a mistake.

as a christian i could care less about the old testament, and it would take another lifetime to try to make sense and study it, i only have one. though we see many correct things in it, such as military methods, geographical locations, kings, and other facts, we will choose what is real and what is a fairytale.

the new testament has some important things in it, but has been handled by men and thus has been tainted to a certain degree.

as a christian only jesus is important to me, not mans ideas of him, but what he means to me and how this affects my life.

where did life as we know it come from? lightning striking mud or the hand of god, either sound pretty crazy to me. but because you can see both lightning and mud it is easier to believe this, but we cannot create life from anything that is not already here. we do not even understand the subatomic or quantum worlds, but yet we know everything?

and where does jesus say the world is flat or the sun revolves around the earth? he does not, men has, you must seperate the man from god to even start to try and figure things out.

boba
05-07-2012, 12:40 PM
Oh, I see...

Ok, I thought you meant the whole story of "the flood" was true.

Which is just absurd.

Oh and LOL at the explaination that the Bible authors gave to a rainbow.

Of course they had no explanation for it so they made it up!!!

Thankfully, science has taught us that our world is NOT flat, it is NOT the center of the universe, the sun does NOT revolve around the earth, and evolution is a basically a FACT.

The Bible is nothing more than mythology to explain the inexplicable world to the ancients!


Unfortunately, we live in the 21st century and grown men and women still believe in fairy tales which have absolutely no proof and deny the evidence that science has provided.

Do you realize that at a time science taught us that all of those things were true?

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 12:46 PM
Do you realize that at a time science taught us that all of those things were true?

Which scientists claimed any of those to be true?

Star_Cards
05-07-2012, 12:56 PM
Actually they believe they may have found pieces of an "ARK" but they cannot say 100% they are part of Noah's Ark

even if they found remnants of an arc that doesn't mean the story of noah's arc where he packed up two of every animal to save once the flood receded. It would just mean that they found a large boat.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 12:57 PM
Alex, records and stories of a large flood are recorded in many societies around the world, not just the Bible. I never said NOAH's ARC was true. Of course, that part of the story is a fable. Similarily, I believe Jesus existed but that doesn't mean I buy into any of the many embellishments written about him.

Fairy tales?
That is a bit harsh IMO

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 12:59 PM
even if they found remnants of an arc that doesn't mean the story of noah's arc where he packed up two of every animal to save once the flood receded. It would just mean that they found a large boat.
100% percent correct

However, do i believe a man named Noah built an ark? Yes

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 01:01 PM
Fairy tales?
That is a bit harsh IMO

Is it? Should I tell you the story of how the world was created as told by the Miqmaq indians of my region. Then you can tell me whether or not they are fairy tales or credible accounts of Earth's beginnings.

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 01:03 PM
100% percent correct

However, do i believe a man named Noah built an ark? Yes

More to the point, do you believe this ark he built saved ALL the animals of the planet?

boba
05-07-2012, 01:05 PM
Is it? Should I tell you the story of how the world was created as told by the Miqmaq indians of my region. Then you can tell me whether or not they are fairy tales or credible accounts of Earth's beginnings.

Should I tell you the story of how the world was created as told by the evolutionists?

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 01:09 PM
Should I tell you the story of how the world was created as told by the evolutionists?

No need. The evolutionists have no idea how the world was CREATED. Their theories are centered around how the world EVOLVED.

If you are going to continue to TROLL, get better at it.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 01:09 PM
More to the point, do you believe this ark he built saved ALL the animals of the planet?
it isnt possible
but do i think the man who built it thought that? yeah i can see someone of that day thinking that

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 01:10 PM
it isnt possible
but do i think the man who built it thought that? yeah i can see someone of that day thinking that

I agree with you on that.

boba
05-07-2012, 01:14 PM
No need. The evolutionists have no idea how the world was CREATED. Their theories are centered around how the world EVOLVED.

If you are going to continue to TROLL, get better at it.

Why is this making you so mad? I did the exact same thing as you, and yet when I do it, its trolling.

boba
05-07-2012, 01:14 PM
it isnt possible
but do i think the man who built it thought that? yeah i can see someone of that day thinking that

What isn't possible about it?

Star_Cards
05-07-2012, 01:15 PM
100% percent correct

However, do i believe a man named Noah built an ark? Yes

I could believe a man named Noah built an arc years ago.

Star_Cards
05-07-2012, 01:16 PM
Should I tell you the story of how the world was created as told by the evolutionists?

like Habs said, evolutionists don't claim to know the answer. There are various theories about.

TPotts
05-07-2012, 01:19 PM
Building an ark, parting a sea, born from a virgin, resurrection, serious healing, Jesus riding the nile in a basket, etc... Far fetched? Maybe, but what I do know is that as a Christian I believe it all 100% as it was written.

boba
05-07-2012, 01:21 PM
like Habs said, evolutionists don't claim to know the answer. There are various theories about.

All I'm saying is these theories are just as unbelievable, if not more, then most of what the tribal indians would think.

Star_Cards
05-07-2012, 01:24 PM
What isn't possible about it?

gathering up two of every animal in the world (non water based of course) and storing them in a giant arc to save them from the flood seems possible? The logistics of catching all of these animals in one thing, but if they did catch all of these animals how are they housing and feeding them all during the 40 day (plus water recession time)? That doesn't even sound plausible to me, let alone possible.

Star_Cards
05-07-2012, 01:26 PM
All I'm saying is these theories are just as unbelievable, if not more, then most of what the tribal indians would think.

they are typically rooted in things that actually happen and that we have evidence of happening to some degree, unlike making woman from a males rib, resurrections, immaculate conceptions, and the like.

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 01:32 PM
Before it gets lost in the muddle. My point on Boba's "evolutionists story" was that their story does not include a "CREATION". It deals with the "EVOLUTION" of the world. They are different matters and as of yet we do not have enough information on a "scientific" fairy tale for creation.

boba
05-07-2012, 02:04 PM
gathering up two of every animal in the world (non water based of course) and storing them in a giant arc to save them from the flood seems possible? The logistics of catching all of these animals in one thing, but if they did catch all of these animals how are they housing and feeding them all during the 40 day (plus water recession time)? That doesn't even sound plausible to me, let alone possible.


Catching them wasn't hard, but if you don't believe in miracles you can't believe anything in the Bible.

Many arguments against them being able to feed-water the animals that I have read are flawed. First they base the time off only one person caring for them, not 8. All of them base there arguments that each animal was individually cared for and they didn't have a system to mass feed - water them.


they are typically rooted in things that actually happen and that we have evidence of happening to some degree, unlike making woman from a males rib, resurrections, immaculate conceptions, and the like.

I see what your saying, but at some point all theories have to have something that we don't see actually happening.

shrewsbury
05-07-2012, 02:31 PM
boba, there were a lot more than eight

the biggest issue is the time frame that a jewish rabbi came up with, there would be no way for it to have happened at that date.

i believe it all happened much earlier than many think

boba
05-07-2012, 02:38 PM
boba, there were a lot more than eight

the biggest issue is the time frame that a jewish rabbi came up with, there would be no way for it to have happened at that date.

i believe it all happened much earlier than many think

More then 8 people in the ark? Or did you think I meant 8 animals?There was somewhere around 16,000 animals in the ark. I'm not sure about the date as I haven't studied it. I'll have to study some on it.

Star_Cards
05-07-2012, 03:00 PM
Catching them wasn't hard, but if you don't believe in miracles you can't believe anything in the Bible.

Many arguments against them being able to feed-water the animals that I have read are flawed. First they base the time off only one person caring for them, not 8. All of them base there arguments that each animal was individually cared for and they didn't have a system to mass feed - water them.



I see what your saying, but at some point all theories have to have something that we don't see actually happening.

well I don't believe in miracles so that's going to be an issue. Catching thousands of animals and insects all over the world (even if this was before the continental divide) would be rather difficult today with all of the technological advancements that wouldn't have been available back then. To simply say it would be easy just doesn't float for me.

I wouldn't think the scenario would be where every animal would be housed separately like in a zoo, but there are a lot of animals that would have to be self contained or they'd eat all of the herbivores or fight the other predators.

shrewsbury
05-07-2012, 03:33 PM
yes sir, more than 8 people in the ark

boba
05-07-2012, 03:34 PM
well I don't believe in miracles so that's going to be an issue. Catching thousands of animals and insects all over the world (even if this was before the continental divide) would be rather difficult today with all of the technological advancements that wouldn't have been available back then. To simply say it would be easy just doesn't float for me.

I wouldn't think the scenario would be where every animal would be housed separately like in a zoo, but there are a lot of animals that would have to be self contained or they'd eat all of the herbivores or fight the other predators.

I'm sure God helped in the bolded part, but like I said that would be a miracle.

I'm sure most of the different species were separate, what I'm saying is that they could have piped drinking water into troughs and such to make it easier.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 03:36 PM
What isn't possible about it?
to carry 2 of every species and breed of animal in the world ? On an Ark?

the shear numbers would be over whelming!

boba
05-07-2012, 03:39 PM
yes sir, more than 8 people in the ark

Hmm, I have heard something about that but never looked into it. I'm interested, would you explain?


to carry 2 of every species and breed of animal in the world ? On an Ark?

the shear numbers would be over whelming!

About 16,000 animals.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 03:41 PM
All I'm saying is these theories are just as unbelievable, if not more, then most of what the tribal indians would think.
How are they unbelievable?

Thousands of hours have been amassed over many years to support them yet they are unbelievable?

We are to take 1 document and believe it to the entire truth ?

Edit: this is close the same case as a flat earth...which was not 100% ended until we took that little trip to the moon in 1969

boba
05-07-2012, 03:45 PM
How are they unbelievable?

Thousands of hours have been amassed over many years to support them yet they are unbelievable?

We are to take 1 document and believe it to the entire truth ?

Edit: this is close the same case as a flat earth...which was not 100% ended until we took that little trip to the moon in 1969


Just because people spent time on them doesn't mean they are more believable.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 03:45 PM
Hmm, I have heard something about that but never looked into it. I'm interested, would you explain?



About 16,000 animals.

so you believe at the time the ark was built that were only 16,000 species in the world?

Sorry I just cant believe that

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 03:47 PM
Just because people spent time on them doesn't mean they are more believable.


well so is the thought of creationism in my opinion...that would mean that we have existed for what a few thousand years?

that is not believable!

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 03:48 PM
Just because people spent time on them doesn't mean they are more believable.
But your asking use to do that...

good luck

boba
05-07-2012, 03:48 PM
so you believe at the time the ark was built that were only 16,000 species in the world?

Sorry I just cant believe that


I think you are confusing terms, species is used here in the Bible as dog, not pomeranian, great dane etc.

boba
05-07-2012, 03:50 PM
But your asking use to do that...

good luck

My point was that evolution theories are just as hard to believe then any other story of how the universe came to be.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 03:54 PM
My point was that evolution theories are just as hard to believe then any other story of how the universe came to be.
They have a great deal more logic then the story of something snapping his fingers and saying let there be light....


another great tale from the Bible...and again it was written by man! more so a tale to explain something they could not understand.

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 03:56 PM
I think you are confusing terms, species is used here in the Bible as dog, not pomeranian, great dane etc.
wow i guess by that means it may be possible??

do not logical...

shrewsbury
05-07-2012, 04:07 PM
this is close the same case as a flat earth...which was not 100% ended until we took that little trip to the moon in 1969

i am not even sure how to respond to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MadMan1978
05-07-2012, 04:12 PM
i am not even sure how to respond to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
then dont? lol and I am kidding...

they could not 100% prove the earth was round until the space flight in 1969

just as the Bible depicts earth being the center of the universe
and that all revolves around earth. He has learn since that we are not the center of the universe

stlcardinalsfan
05-07-2012, 04:12 PM
gathering up two of every animal in the world (non water based of course) and storing them in a giant arc to save them from the flood seems possible? The logistics of catching all of these animals in one thing, but if they did catch all of these animals how are they housing and feeding them all during the 40 day (plus water recession time)? That doesn't even sound plausible to me, let alone possible.


no one ever said how exactly he did it.

ever watch the acient aliens show on tv?, they have some pretty neat ideas about how he did.

duwal
05-07-2012, 04:21 PM
More then 8 people in the ark? Or did you think I meant 8 animals?There was somewhere around 16,000 animals in the ark. I'm not sure about the date as I haven't studied it. I'll have to study some on it.


man imagine the smell of all those animals crapping on that boat

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 05:53 PM
i am not even sure how to respond to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wanted to say something too. But I couldn't find the words.

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 05:58 PM
This is insane (Noah's Ark and ALL the land animals). Even the most impossible of events are defended by some people. If the only way a believer can believe that this event happened was due to God performing miracles, why the heck did He flood everything to begin with? Just snap your darn fingers and set things how you want them. What was God a drama queen? Making a big production out of everything so that He can rush in and save the day with the miracle of "animal collection and storage".

JustAlex
05-07-2012, 06:01 PM
I don't think I have ever heard this one. Care to expand on it?

The Bible says that the rainbow is a creation of God as a "Pact" to man that he would never flood the earth again.


Hilarious, but actually a rainbow is simply a spectrum of light that appears when the sun shines unto droplets of moisture in the atmostphere.

^Now, which explanation seems more credible?

The one with FACTS or the the one that sounds like a fairy tale?


where did life as we know it come from? lightning striking mud or the hand of god, either sound pretty crazy to me.

NO!!!!

Please look into Abiogenesis, it says NOTHING about lightnings striking mud, that's NOT the way science explains life.



Do you realize that at a time science taught us that all of those things were true?

YES, and that's what makes Science greater than the Bible and ALL religion.

Science improves itself, it corrects it's mistakes and it's not afraid to say it's wrong.

As for the bible and religion, it is DOGMATIC it will NEVER say it's wrong and it will NEVER correct itself.


Should I tell you the story of how the world was created as told by the evolutionists?
INCORRECT!

Evolution says NOTHING about the creation of life, that is Abiogenesis!

Evolution only talks about the DIVERSITY of life, once life is HERE!

JustAlex
05-07-2012, 06:11 PM
The problem we have in America and the rest of the religious world is that Religion wants to have the default position.

I'll explain:

If I see a leprechaun and I tell someone about it, who does the burden of proof lie on???

ME of course!

I have to show evidence that I really did see a leprechaun, maybe a photo or some other kind of PHYSICAL proof.


However, this is the way American Christians act:

"You can't prove God doesn't exist...."

SO WHAT!

It's not up to me to proof his existence for YOU, it's up to YOU to give me evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU.

"Evolution is just a theory...."

Yes, so is Gravity, germ theory, and the fact the world rotates around the sun is also a theory.

"You can't have something come from nothing...."

Funny enough, Science DOESN'T say something came from nothing, only CHRISTIANS believe something came from nothing....God "spoke" creation, he literally made the earth, the universe, EVERYTHING.....from nothing!

theonedru
05-07-2012, 08:06 PM
Funny enough, Science DOESN'T say something came from nothing, only CHRISTIANS believe something came from nothing....God "spoke" creation, he literally made the earth, the universe, EVERYTHING.....from nothing!

Nothing doesn't exist, there is no such thing because by saying nothing is nothing then nothing becomes something. You give it a base and substance, and how can nothing be nothing if nothing is something?

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 01:18 AM
it says NOTHING about lightnings striking mud, that's NOT the way science explains life.

actually i heard an interview with richard dawkins, he was asked this fundemental question as this was his answer, followed with, we don't really know.

the onedru, this is just another example of why i believe in a god.

theonedru
05-08-2012, 01:32 AM
actually i heard an interview with richard dawkins, he was asked this fundemental question as this was his answer, followed with, we don't really know.

the onedru, this is just another example of why i believe in a god.

You should hear my spiel on mathematical theories..

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 08:41 AM
You should hear my spiel on mathematical theories.

i would love to and would consider it an honor for you to share with me

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 08:55 AM
I'm sure God helped in the bolded part, but like I said that would be a miracle.

I'm sure most of the different species were separate, what I'm saying is that they could have piped drinking water into troughs and such to make it easier.

Saying "I'm sure God helped" just doesn't do anything for me. It's not logical for me. I can't view that as a reasonable answer. If it did, anything could be explained away with that simple statement.

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 08:59 AM
I think you are confusing terms, species is used here in the Bible as dog, not pomeranian, great dane etc.

I do agree with you on this. When it comes to dogs, not all of the types of dog have been around all that long. The same goes for lots of other breeds of animals. Even outside of the breeds of animals that have been created or evolved from an original species since this hypothetical arc, you're still talking about a ton of animals spread out over a vast amount of land.

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 09:05 AM
no one ever said how exactly he did it.

ever watch the acient aliens show on tv?, they have some pretty neat ideas about how he did.

I tend to believe in tangible ideals. When you add in elements of mysticism or aliens it's way too easy to explain anything. It's a cop out in my opinion. Fantastical things that we don't see happen in present day are not what I call proper explanations.

None of those types of supernatural happenings that the bible say happened simply aren't believable from what we've witnessed in our lives.

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 09:08 AM
This is insane (Noah's Ark and ALL the land animals). Even the most impossible of events are defended by some people. If the only way a believer can believe that this event happened was due to God performing miracles, why the heck did He flood everything to begin with? Just snap your darn fingers and set things how you want them. What was God a drama queen? Making a big production out of everything so that He can rush in and save the day with the miracle of "animal collection and storage".

I can only explain that as a biased sports fan trying to defend a negative action. Those people are blinded by their vested interest.

I see Noah's arc as a story created to bring fear to people. telling people they better act under these rules or god will cause a flood and kill off all of the bad people is a great way to control people who believe such a story.

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 09:20 AM
so all the flood stories in antiquity are to scare people? that could work

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 09:28 AM
so all the flood stories in antiquity are to scare people? that could work

No, not all the flood stories. Some are told just to relay a historical event and are probably embellished each time they are re-told over the generations. Flood stories that include statements of facts, that a reasonable person knows is not humanly possible without mystical assistance, are probably told for the purpose of propogating the christian faith.

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 09:42 AM
actually i heard an interview with richard dawkins, he was asked this fundemental question as this was his answer, followed with, we don't really know.

the onedru, this is just another example of why i believe in a god.

I think that's the point, while evolutionists use logic and concrete ideas based in science most never claim to know for sure and have an open mind for if and when new ideas are presented. Creationists seem to be wrapped up in having the exact answer and defending that because it follows a faith that they typically are very much personally invested in. From my point of view there's a huge bias because of that personal investment into the faith. It's typically not allowable for an objective view.

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 09:46 AM
so all the flood stories in antiquity are to scare people? that could work

not all flood stories. It's not the flood part. It's the whole idea that a god would cleanse the entire planet in such a fashion that I find odd.

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 09:49 AM
No, not all the flood stories. Some are told just to relay a historical event and are probably embellished each time they are re-told over the generations. Flood stories that include statements of facts, that a reasonable person knows is not humanly possible without mystical assistance, are probably told for the purpose of propogating the christian faith.

well said. it's sort of like when Katrina hit or any other disaster for that matter and someone will try to say that it's god cleansing the earth when we have actual reasons why Katrina happened (the hurricane and the flooding of New Orleans).

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 11:41 AM
so the fact is, there is nothing supernatural?

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 11:58 AM
so the fact is, there is nothing supernatural?

Tough question. If I had to bet the farm on it, I would say "No". There are many unexplained phenomena occuring in the world but that doesn't make them supernatural, it only makes their explanation unknown for now.

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 12:36 PM
so the fact is, there is nothing supernatural?

tough question in deed. I also lean to the side of if I had to choose I would say so. Not a fact as that's not really possible to say, but I'll base my opinions on logical explanations over saying something was supernatural.

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 11:56 PM
[QUOTE] but I'll base my opinions on logical explanations over saying something was supernatural.[QUOTE]

an so would i.

us christians saying we believe our god created everything, does not mean we know how, why, or what the heck is going on.

it gives us one answer but an answer that opens itself to countless more questions.

the real issue is what is god and what is man made?

science can explain many things, but it does not have all the answers, and christianity is the same way. when we think of the molecular and subatomic levels this is mind blowing, where does everything lead back to?

the fact is that supernatural means something that cannot be explained by science or the laws of nature, but as we all know science is still learning and nature is still being understood.

the idea of a single source for all things is in every culture, religion, and science. whether the big bang, wu ji, or god it is all a singularity.

Star_Cards
05-09-2012, 10:24 AM
an so would i.

us christians saying we believe our god created everything, does not mean we know how, why, or what the heck is going on.

it gives us one answer but an answer that opens itself to countless more questions.

the real issue is what is god and what is man made?

science can explain many things, but it does not have all the answers, and christianity is the same way. when we think of the molecular and subatomic levels this is mind blowing, where does everything lead back to?

the fact is that supernatural means something that cannot be explained by science or the laws of nature, but as we all know science is still learning and nature is still being understood.

the idea of a single source for all things is in every culture, religion, and science. whether the big bang, wu ji, or god it is all a singularity.

but the bible lays out how everything was created. god created adam and eve was created from adam's rib. I actually know people that believe this is how man and woman were made. It also lays out things that he created during the seven days of creation. I was under the impression that was how christians typically believe everything was created.

shrewsbury
05-09-2012, 11:52 AM
but the bible lays out how everything was created. god created adam and eve was created from adam's rib. I actually know people that believe this is how man and woman were made. It also lays out things that he created during the seven days of creation. I was under the impression that was how christians typically believe everything was created.

i cannot speak for anyone but myself, but i am finding i seem to be the oddball christian