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mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 10:39 AM
I read this article on slam online. Although it deals with the nba it also talks alot about cultural stereotypes about black males and they way society thinks about us. This is a must read.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/restricted-access/

angel0430
04-26-2012, 11:07 AM
I have to agree on the year that teh NBA wants the propsects to wait. Like any other job, this is a "probation" period. You want to make sure that your money is well spent. Also, I have no idea why they compare the NBA rules to the U.S. Judicial system and its laws. I don't think that this is steretyping if the numbers are true. If most of the NBA players come from poor families and the majority are black, how is that stereotyoping...it is a fact.

ensbergcollector
04-26-2012, 11:11 AM
a must read? yeah if we want to understand how people can see racism where it doesn't exist. this entire thing is a joke. please tell me it is satire? the nba rules are based on white supremicist ideals in an effort to keep out the blackness? come on man

gladdyontherise
04-26-2012, 11:15 AM
a must read? yeah if we want to understand how people can see racism where it doesn't exist. this entire thing is a joke. please tell me it is satire? the nba rules are based on white supremicist ideals in an effort to keep out the blackness? come on man

I had the feeling this was gonna happen. I read a large portion myself, and didn't see what was wrong with it either.

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 11:23 AM
a must read? yeah if we want to understand how people can see racism where it doesn't exist. this entire thing is a joke. please tell me it is satire? the nba rules are based on white supremicist ideals in an effort to keep out the blackness? come on man


So it is ok for a white teenage tennis player, singer or movie star to make a living in their chosen profession and everyone is so proud of them but if a teenaged black male who has the talent wants to play in the nba then everyone has a problem with it? I smell hyprocricy.

gladdyontherise
04-26-2012, 11:30 AM
So it is ok for a white teenage tennis player, singer or movie star to make a living in their chosen profession and everyone is so proud of them but if a teenaged black male who has the talent wants to play in the nba then everyone has a problem with it? I smell hyprocricy.

The issue is that no matter what the race is, there are a lot of Basketball players who DON'T have the talent to play in the NBA and are leaving school after 1 year.

I'm just taking a wild guess, but I think you'd be complaining that these same athletes who leave school early and fail, are not at fault for failing, and it must be someone elses fault, right?

ensbergcollector
04-26-2012, 11:36 AM
So it is ok for a white teenage tennis player, singer or movie star to make a living in their chosen profession and everyone is so proud of them but if a teenaged black male who has the talent wants to play in the nba then everyone has a problem with it? I smell hyprocricy.

should every stud high school qb cry racism because they can't go straight into the nfl? Is the NFL against gifted white males? Also, tennis is a different sport. Show me where 65% of ex tennis players are broke 2 years after they retire. Show me where tennis is a team sport. It isn't hypocrisy. It is common sense for both the league and the players. But again, there are those who live in the world of "the white man is trying to keep us down" and see racism everywhere.

It is ridiculous. And did you really just bring up singers and movie stars? Yeah, because all of those are white! give me a break man, that doesn't even make sense.

duane1969
04-26-2012, 11:38 AM
So it is ok for a white teenage tennis player, singer or movie star to make a living in their chosen profession and everyone is so proud of them but if a teenaged black male who has the talent wants to play in the nba then everyone has a problem with it? I smell hyprocricy.

You do realize that this rule would apply to whites, asians and latinos too, right? Kind of hard to say this is another issue of "whitey holdin' down the black man" when the rule applies to everyone.

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 11:46 AM
You do realize that this rule would apply to whites, asians and latinos too, right? Kind of hard to say this is another issue of "whitey holdin' down the black man" when the rule applies to everyone.


Basketball is a majority black sport. Tennis, soccer, baseball are not. So blacks are affected more by this rule than others. Nice try though. :winking0071:

gladdyontherise
04-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Basketball is a majority black sport. Tennis, soccer, baseball are not. So blacks are affected more by this rule than others. Nice try though. :winking0071:

I must ask, why do you try so hard to make everything a race issue? In the post you clearly are trying to make this an issue, and I just don't get it. Do you really think everybody is out to get African Americans? If so, I feel really, really bad for you.

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 11:54 AM
should every stud high school qb cry racism because they can't go straight into the nfl? Is the NFL against gifted white males? Also, tennis is a different sport. Show me where 65% of ex tennis players are broke 2 years after they retire. Show me where tennis is a team sport. It isn't hypocrisy. It is common sense for both the league and the players. But again, there are those who live in the world of "the white man is trying to keep us down" and see racism everywhere.

It is ridiculous. And did you really just bring up singers and movie stars? Yeah, because all of those are white! give me a break man, that doesn't even make sense.


Your comment about gifted qbs has racial overtones. Who said that every stud qb in HS is white? There are some good black HS qbs as well. Also yes there is a large percentage of basketball players who are indeed broke after they retire but alot of them went to college. So there goes that theory. Bottom line if they have they talent they should not be denied entry. If they are not smart enough to budget their money then who's fault is that? Also what is forcing someone to go to college for 2 years who has no desire to do so going to do besides make the ncaa and cbs a whole lot of money?

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 11:56 AM
I must ask, why do you try so hard to make everything a race issue? In the post you clearly are trying to make this an issue, and I just don't get it. Do you really think everybody is out to get African Americans? If so, I feel really, really bad for you.


I don't think everyone is out to get us but I am not going sit back and pretend that racism still does not exist some some of the people on here do.

duane1969
04-26-2012, 11:57 AM
Basketball is a majority black sport. Tennis, soccer, baseball are not. So blacks are affected more by this rule than others. Nice try though. :winking0071:

And? Basketball is the only major sport that doesn't have a rule like this. Why does basketball deserve a pass just because it is mostly populated by blacks?

Quite frankly I find the idea of supporting young black men not getting a college education so that 1 in every 100 can play pro basketball to be doing a disservice to the black community.

ensbergcollector
04-26-2012, 12:02 PM
Your comment about gifted qbs has racial overtones. Who said that every stud qb in HS is white? There are some good black HS qbs as well. Also yes there is a large percentage of basketball players who are indeed broke after they retire but alot of them went to college. So there goes that theory. Bottom line if they have they talent they should not be denied entry. If they are not smart enough to budget their money then who's fault is that? Also what is forcing someone to go to college for 2 years who has no desire to do so going to do besides make the ncaa and cbs a whole lot of money?

yes, but nfl regarded high school qb's are majority white so nice try. thanks for playing

gladdyontherise
04-26-2012, 12:03 PM
I don't think everyone is out to get us but I am not going sit back and pretend that racism still does not exist some some of the people on here do.

You sure act like it.

Nobody pretends it doesn't exist, because we all know it does, but you make EVERY issue a race issue, when it's generally not.

Such as this article, it's not a race issue with the NBA, you've just made it one, and you ignore the fact.

The fact is that you have a bunch of athletes going to school for 1 season who are NOT good enough to play in the NBA. Guys like Anthony Davis are the exception to the 1 year rule.

ensbergcollector
04-26-2012, 12:06 PM
as far as the actual nba rule, i think Larry Brown (former coach) has the best idea. It has long been his opinion that the nba should adopt the MLB rule. That rule is that if you want to come straight out of high school you can. however, if you don't get drafted or don't think you can come straight out of high school you must go to school for 3 years. It has worked for baseball for years. Now, I know it isn't a direct parallel because baseball has minor leagues but...

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 12:11 PM
And? Basketball is the only major sport that doesn't have a rule like this. Why does basketball deserve a pass just because it is mostly populated by blacks?

Quite frankly I find the idea of supporting young black men not getting a college education so that 1 in every 100 can play pro basketball to be doing a disservice to the black community.


Funny Duane. :winking0071: Anyone who knows me on a personal level knows that I am a huge proponet of a college education and that if you have the chance to get one take advantage of it. However you and I know that most college ball players do not pick a college let alone go to college at all for academics. If a ballplayer wants to go to college to get a degree then more power to them. I am proud of them and wish them much success. However if a ballplayer has the skills to draw intrest to play professional basketball at 18 who are we to stop them? I don't see anyone having a problem with an 18 year old going over to Iraq or Afganastan and dying so what's the difference in them getting paid to play ball?

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 12:26 PM
as far as the actual nba rule, i think Larry Brown (former coach) has the best idea. It has long been his opinion that the nba should adopt the MLB rule. That rule is that if you want to come straight out of high school you can. however, if you don't get drafted or don't think you can come straight out of high school you must go to school for 3 years. It has worked for baseball for years. Now, I know it isn't a direct parallel because baseball has minor leagues but...


Baseball's plan is better but I would personally say that you can leave college anytime but you will be paid more based on who much college experience they have, giving the players an incentive to stay in college if they are a fringe prospect. Also if the nba was really concerned about the ball players graduating from college they would put a bonus in the ballplayers contract for graduating. The nba should also get some type of minor leauge system similiar to baseball's and stop using the ncaa as their free farm system. However I wont hold my breath waiting for any of these ideas because they would cost the nba money even though it would be an investment in their product which would make them more money in the long run.

AUTaxMan
04-26-2012, 01:02 PM
I must ask, why do you try so hard to make everything a race issue? In the post you clearly are trying to make this an issue, and I just don't get it. Do you really think everybody is out to get African Americans? If so, I feel really, really bad for you.

Isn't it obvious by now?

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 01:05 PM
Isn't it obvious by now?


And this is coming from someone who makes it know in his posts that a black person has been accused of a crime. Your credibility has been long lost in my book my dearest friend.

AUTaxMan
04-26-2012, 01:10 PM
And this is coming from someone who makes it know in his posts that a black person has been accused of a crime. You credibility has been long lost in my book my dearest friend.

I do it for you. You are the only one who always wants to know the races of the parties to a crime.

boba
04-26-2012, 01:15 PM
And this is coming from someone who makes it know in his posts that a black person has been accused of a crime. You credibility has been long lost in my book my dearest friend.


He does that to counterbalance you haha. You do the exact same thing but to a way greater extent. So in your opinion have you lost all credibility?

:loco:

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 01:15 PM
I do it for you. You are the only one who always wants to know the races of the parties to a crime.


Only when relevant to the facts such as if the crime may have been racially motivated. If two white guys have an argument and 1 kills the other what does race have to do with that?

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 01:16 PM
He does that to counterbalance you haha. You do the exact same thing but to a way greater extent. So in your opinion have you lost all credibility?

:loco:


The both of you are about as fair and balanced as fox news is. :smokin:

AUTaxMan
04-26-2012, 01:21 PM
The both of you are about as fair and balanced as fox news is. :smokin:

I have never posted a single article regarding race that wasn't in direct response to some ridiculous post you've made. I'll stop doing it, if it makes you feel better. We'll just change the name of the board to white people are racist islamophobes and religion.

boba
04-26-2012, 01:22 PM
The both of you are about as fair and balanced as fox news is. :smokin:


You should have this as your avatar.

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq190/bobafett94/photos/trollface.png

I really think your just trolling right now. And there is no point in arguing with you.

mrveggieman
04-26-2012, 01:26 PM
I have never posted a single article regarding race that wasn't in direct response to some ridiculous post you've made. I'll stop doing it, if it makes you feel better. We'll just change the name of the board to white people are racist islamophobes and religion.


You do as you like but if you put some crap out there I will continue to call you out on it. :winking0071:

Star_Cards
04-26-2012, 02:06 PM
I don't think upping the age limit for the NBA is racially motivated at all. The NBA is primarily black and most of the big stars who are the face of the game world wide are black.

I see a great benefit to making the kids wait. It benefits the teams, the league and the players. The players get more development and have another year to get a sense of where their talent would land them in the draft. Some may also choose to get more out of the second year in college, but that would be up to the individual of course. It helps the NBA because they have more developed rookies and it helps the teams so they have more information about a kid before they draft them and assign salary cap to them. Like cuban said, they are 100 Lenny Cookes for every Kobe.

ensbergcollector
04-26-2012, 02:22 PM
Only when relevant to the facts such as if the crime may have been racially motivated. If two white guys have an argument and 1 kills the other what does race have to do with that?

the problem is you always think everything is racially motivated so you always bring race into it. if a black person commits a crime against a white person, you always think it could never have been racially motivated.

duane1969
04-26-2012, 03:07 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't NCAA rules prevent a player from playing college ball after they have declared for a draft? If so, then if a kid came out of high school and declared for the draft and didn't get drafted then he would kill his chances of ever playing since he would no longer have the option to play college ball.

MadMan1978
04-26-2012, 03:27 PM
First this does not belong in P&R...

second I am NO fan of the NBA over the last several years. they will excuse any behavior and almost set the stage for the behavior. However, I agree with the getting rid of the 1 and done. NFL has the best model for this 2 years of college or be a certain age. there is life outside of the NBA. they set the rules either play within the rules or play elsewhere. This is NOT about Race and trying to make it about is in really poor taste.

Star_Cards
04-26-2012, 03:49 PM
Basketball is a majority black sport. Tennis, soccer, baseball are not. So blacks are affected more by this rule than others. Nice try though. :winking0071:

do you think the NFLs three year rule is racially motivated. I believe blacks are a majority in the NFL as well. I just don't get why the NBA would be racist towards a group of people who basically carry and sell the sport. Without black basketball players the game just wouldn't be as fun to watch. That is is you consider NBA fun to watch. that can be debatable in the regular season. Why would Stern want to alienate and make it harder for blacks to get into the NBA just because of the color of their skin? I don't understand how anyone would think that stern would want to do this as a way to punish blacks.

AUTaxMan
04-26-2012, 03:51 PM
First this does not belong in P&R...

second I am NO fan of the NBA over the last several years. they will excuse any behavior and almost set the stage for the behavior. However, I agree with the getting rid of the 1 and done. NFL has the best model for this 2 years of college or be a certain age. there is life outside of the NBA. they set the rules either play within the rules or play elsewhere. This is NOT about Race and trying to make it about is in really poor taste.

You make a good point. Since when did every story about race become ipso facto a political story? Just because something is news does not mean it is politics.

habsheaven
04-26-2012, 03:54 PM
You make a good point. Since when did every story about race become ipso facto a political story? Just because something is news does not mean it is politics.

To veggie's credit though. Just think what this board would be if he wasn't posting "news" stories. Might as well just call it the Anti-Obama board.

Star_Cards
04-26-2012, 03:54 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't NCAA rules prevent a player from playing college ball after they have declared for a draft? If so, then if a kid came out of high school and declared for the draft and didn't get drafted then he would kill his chances of ever playing since he would no longer have the option to play college ball.

exactly, this is one of the major reason why they made it so that the kids would at least go to college for one year and want to extend that. There are a ton of kids who declared, possibly because the people around them told them to go unwarranted, and then didn't get drafted. Then they are left without being drafted or being able to go back to school. It's partially a safety net for the kids that get poor advice about their skill level and leave early and then can't go back to school. I see it as a benefit to the majority of underclassman who fall into that sector of college player.

AUTaxMan
04-26-2012, 03:59 PM
To veggie's credit though. Just think what this board would be if he wasn't posting "news" stories. Might as well just call it the Anti-Obama board.

Would that necessarily be a bad thing?

shrewsbury
04-26-2012, 06:48 PM
the stats of blacks locked up are alarming. i can see how someone can see as some form of racism must be going on. if it is i am unaware of it and certainly would not be for it.

but this article does not seem to be anything other than an excuse for someone to tie things into racism.

it might be unfair to some, but not because of their race.

MadMan1978
04-26-2012, 07:47 PM
to veggie's credit though. Just think what this board would be if he wasn't posting "news" stories. Might as well just call it the anti-obama board.
+100000

duane1969
04-26-2012, 09:18 PM
To veggie's credit though. Just think what this board would be if he wasn't posting "news" stories. Might as well just call it the Anti-Obama board.

Really all it is now is the Anti-Obama and veggie's "all white people are racist" threads board. I would be willing to do without the former if I didn't have to read anymore of the latter...

themanishere
04-27-2012, 05:07 AM
The article is written in a way that seems to endorse the sociocultural foundations of what the author calls "authentic blackness." Kind of a fatalistic basis for arguing that basketball is a necessary outlet for these kids. However, to an extent I believe that latter idea to be true, at least with how black urban subcultures have become so institutionalized (and isolated - there's a theory for this but I forget the name) in a sense. And the lack of socioeconomic progress for inner-city people has stagnated in part because of the romanticization of that subculture by others (i.e. it's "cool" to be ghetto.)

And basketball is part of that. It's a career track. The sort of "quick, easy way out" mentality is exacerbated by the unsuccessful, if misguided, efforts to address socioeconomic deficiencies in these areas.

Until those things are addressed in a more methodological way, basketball will continue to be a pervasive outlet for that mentality - which has energized the push-back against the age rule as such.

tsjct
04-27-2012, 11:28 AM
I stopped watching the NBA a long time ago as its just filled with THUGS. I saw the replay of Ron Artest and what ever his new name is throw a elbow and that just reminded me again why i will never follow a league of thugs. I say let them play at 15 if they want i do not care. The majority will be broke or in jail shortly after their career ends. The NBA is a joke.

Star_Cards
04-27-2012, 04:44 PM
I stopped watching the NBA a long time ago as its just filled with THUGS. I saw the replay of Ron Artest and what ever his new name is throw a elbow and that just reminded me again why i will never follow a league of thugs. I say let them play at 15 if they want i do not care. The majority will be broke or in jail shortly after their career ends. The NBA is a joke.

The majority of NBA players will be in jail or broke? I find that hard to believe. Sure they have issues with players just like football. Of course there are more football players, but of the big stories that I can remember, the big arrests have come from football as of late. Of course there are some players that have troubles with the law, but to classify them all as thugs just isn't factual.

Star_Cards
04-27-2012, 04:49 PM
The article is written in a way that seems to endorse the sociocultural foundations of what the author calls "authentic blackness." Kind of a fatalistic basis for arguing that basketball is a necessary outlet for these kids. However, to an extent I believe that latter idea to be true, at least with how black urban subcultures have become so institutionalized (and isolated - there's a theory for this but I forget the name) in a sense. And the lack of socioeconomic progress for inner-city people has stagnated in part because of the romanticization of that subculture by others (i.e. it's "cool" to be ghetto.)

And basketball is part of that. It's a career track. The sort of "quick, easy way out" mentality is exacerbated by the unsuccessful, if misguided, efforts to address socioeconomic deficiencies in these areas.

Until those things are addressed in a more methodological way, basketball will continue to be a pervasive outlet for that mentality - which has energized the push-back against the age rule as such.

let's not forget that we are talking about a very small number of individuals that this rule effects. How many kids are able to enter the NBA draft after high school or even after one year of college? maybe 10-20 a year if that?

themanishere
04-27-2012, 05:26 PM
let's not forget that we are talking about a very small number of individuals that this rule effects. How many kids are able to enter the NBA draft after high school or even after one year of college? maybe 10-20 a year if that?

I would wholeheartedly disagree that it only affects a small number in the big picture - one cannot simply look superficially at the kids who make it to consideration for the draft.

The social implications are much more engrained. I'm speaking more toward the mentality to which many black, urban populations subscribe in terms of how they perceive their futures. The opposition to age rules speaks to how these populations often embrace professional sports, no matter the probability of "making it," as a primary career choice. Putting a restriction on how these kids pursue basketball is like slighting their whole subculture precisely because the sport is so important. Only a few kids may make it, but that doesn't mean basketball as a life path is any less salient for future populations of these kids precisely because it is so pervasive in the subculture.

I'm not endorsing or justifying the mentality, per se, I'm just trying to explain why I feel there is opposition as such.

theonedru
04-28-2012, 05:53 AM
So it is ok for a white teenage tennis player, singer or movie star to make a living in their chosen profession and everyone is so proud of them but if a teenaged black male who has the talent wants to play in the nba then everyone has a problem with it? I smell hyprocricy.

Isn't trying to make everything a racial issue racist in itself? And why point out just the black basketball players could that not also be construed as racist also? Here are 2 types of people who have it way worse today in the world than blacks

1. Anyone looking or sounds Arabic
2. Anyone gay

duwal
04-28-2012, 08:31 AM
So it is ok for a white teenage tennis player, singer or movie star to make a living in their chosen profession and everyone is so proud of them but if a teenaged black male who has the talent wants to play in the nba then everyone has a problem with it? I smell hyprocricy.


they're completely two different things. You list it for a white person but the same thing is ok for a black teenage tennis player, singer or movie star. Also the rule isn't racist in any way because it is structured so that everyone, whether in the U.S., european countries, asian countries, etc. have to follow the provisions no matter what nationalities. It would only be racist if it was applied exclusively to black basketball players and no other ethnicity

hawk2618
04-29-2012, 03:33 PM
they're completely two different things. You list it for a white person but the same thing is ok for a black teenage tennis player, singer or movie star. Also the rule isn't racist in any way because it is structured so that everyone, whether in the U.S., european countries, asian countries, etc. have to follow the provisions no matter what nationalities. It would only be racist if it was applied exclusively to black basketball players and no other ethnicity


Some people don't think before they type.Very good point!!:pop2:

Star_Cards
04-30-2012, 01:46 PM
I would wholeheartedly disagree that it only affects a small number in the big picture - one cannot simply look superficially at the kids who make it to consideration for the draft.

The social implications are much more engrained. I'm speaking more toward the mentality to which many black, urban populations subscribe in terms of how they perceive their futures. The opposition to age rules speaks to how these populations often embrace professional sports, no matter the probability of "making it," as a primary career choice. Putting a restriction on how these kids pursue basketball is like slighting their whole subculture precisely because the sport is so important. Only a few kids may make it, but that doesn't mean basketball as a life path is any less salient for future populations of these kids precisely because it is so pervasive in the subculture.

I'm not endorsing or justifying the mentality, per se, I'm just trying to explain why I feel there is opposition as such.

I definitely get your point. I didn't mean to say that it couldn't be considered racially motivated just because it effected only a few people directly. I just don't get how it can be racist if it's effecting all races and nationalities that want to enter the draft early

I will say that I doubt an extra year wait would cause any kid to stop pursuing playing in the NBA. Also, there are other ways to make money with basketball skill besides playing in the NBA.

Star_Cards
04-30-2012, 01:52 PM
So it is ok for a white teenage tennis player, singer or movie star to make a living in their chosen profession and everyone is so proud of them but if a teenaged black male who has the talent wants to play in the nba then everyone has a problem with it? I smell hyprocricy.

This argument isn't valid, because any teenager of any race can play tennis at any age. I'm not sure when the Williams sisters started playing tennis but I think it was when they were teenagers. Same goes for golf. Michelle Wie was a teenager when she started.

As far as actors or singer, there are plenty of very young musicians and actors that have worked before they were a certain age. The list is huge. That realm is also a little different than sports that have a governing league that sets rules. The entertainment industry really doesn't have that outside of the actors guild.

AUTaxMan
04-30-2012, 06:27 PM
This argument isn't valid, because any teenager of any race can play tennis at any age. I'm not sure when the Williams sisters started playing tennis but I think it was when they were teenagers. Same goes for golf. Michelle Wie was a teenager when she started.

As far as actors or singer, there are plenty of very young musicians and actors that have worked before they were a certain age. The list is huge. That realm is also a little different than sports that have a governing league that sets rules. The entertainment industry really doesn't have that outside of the actors guild.

I think mrv is saying that only black people play in the nba.

MadMan1978
04-30-2012, 08:41 PM
i stopped watching the nba a long time ago as its just filled with thugs. I saw the replay of ron artest and what ever his new name is throw a elbow and that just reminded me again why i will never follow a league of thugs. I say let them play at 15 if they want i do not care. The majority will be broke or in jail shortly after their career ends. The nba is a joke.
++++1

themanishere
05-01-2012, 03:24 AM
I definitely get your point. I didn't mean to say that it couldn't be considered racially motivated just because it effected only a few people directly. I just don't get how it can be racist if it's effecting all races and nationalities that want to enter the draft early

I will say that I doubt an extra year wait would cause any kid to stop pursuing playing in the NBA. Also, there are other ways to make money with basketball skill besides playing in the NBA.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's "racist" either, but it is quite apparent that black populations would be affected disproportionately compared to others for reasons I've outlined.

Another thing though is that, even if a new rule makes these kids finish a given number of years of school or something, the quality of that education would be in question. Too many student athletes get free rides, so the solution becomes superficial.

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 03:27 AM
I stopped watching the NBA a long time ago as its just filled with THUGS. I saw the replay of Ron Artest and what ever his new name is throw a elbow and that just reminded me again why i will never follow a league of thugs. I say let them play at 15 if they want i do not care. The majority will be broke or in jail shortly after their career ends. The NBA is a joke.
Not as bad as watching those street thugs roll around on ice, fighting each other every other second.. hockey

habsheaven
05-01-2012, 08:54 AM
Not as bad as watching those street thugs roll around on ice, fighting each other every other second.. hockey

Street thugs?? LOL, you can't be serious. Hockey players are known WORLDWIDE to be the most wholesome professional athletes around. They leave their violence on the ice. Too funny.

mrveggieman
05-01-2012, 09:30 AM
Yeah they are so wholesome that a prosecutor acutally pressed charges against a guy for what he did on ice. And I actually like hockey. :thumb:

pghin08
05-01-2012, 09:34 AM
I dealt with a ton of athletes in my prior job from all major sports, and can say without any hesitation that hockey players are the nicest and most polite of all of them. Couldn't be farther from thugs. When was the last time you heard about a hockey player beating a wife/girlfriend, committing a hate crime (that's for you, Delmon Young) or really doing anything violent off the ice? No robbery, no theft, not even weed. Hockey players are absolute angels when you compare them to the prima donnas that pervade every other sport. Even Jerome Bettis, one of my favorite players, and one of football's most famous "nice guys" isn't half as kind as a hockey player.

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 11:54 AM
So a league full of guys that is known for fighting and somewhat encouraged = generalize them as nice guy and far from thugs

An isolated elbow incident and a league is full of thugs


I get it . LOL

Does the guy who called the nba thugs know what a thug is ?

Because from what I see the only thing that makes nba players thugs are their skin color and maybe some tattoos

The face of the league ( best players ) kobe, durant, westbrook, rose, griffin, lebron, wade, paul, Howard) yeah , big criminals there

Its such as shame they don't televise chess match , maybe we can watch a few more good kids knock each other out and fight each other regularly .. yeah makes sense

mrveggieman
05-01-2012, 12:06 PM
So a league full of guys that is known for fighting and somewhat encouraged = generalize them as nice guy and far from thugs

An isolated elbow incident and a league is full of thugs


I get it . LOL

Does the guy who called the nba thugs know what a thug is ?

Because from what I see the only thing that makes nba players thugs are their skin color and maybe some tattoos

The face of the league ( best players ) kobe, durant, westbrook, rose, griffin, lebron, wade, paul, Howard) yeah , big criminals there

Its such as shame they don't televise chess match , maybe we can watch a few more good kids knock each other out and fight each other regularly .. yeah makes sense


CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

gladdyontherise
05-01-2012, 12:08 PM
Not as bad as watching those street thugs roll around on ice, fighting each other every other second.. hockey

You do realize fighting is a part of Hockey, right?

I think the term 'thug' in any sport is used too often and often not in the right context, but the reason it's used more in Basketball is when you have someone like Kevin Love stomping on a guy, or the whole Arenas/Crittenton gun incident, and of course the brawl at the Palace. It's reputation, and while not fair to the entire sport based on a few guys here and there, it's what happens.

Star_Cards
05-01-2012, 12:11 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say it's "racist" either, but it is quite apparent that black populations would be affected disproportionately compared to others for reasons I've outlined.

Another thing though is that, even if a new rule makes these kids finish a given number of years of school or something, the quality of that education would be in question. Too many student athletes get free rides, so the solution becomes superficial.

I definitely don't disagree with you as far what type of education they would get with just one year. However, the rule, as I see it, isn't about the kids getting another year of a college education. It's more about them working on their basketball skills. I definitely think any aspect of education that the NBA would bring up to add an extra year would be way down the list of their motives for this rule.

pghin08
05-01-2012, 12:11 PM
So a league full of guys that is known for fighting and somewhat encouraged = generalize them as nice guy and far from thugs

An isolated elbow incident and a league is full of thugs


I get it . LOL

Does the guy who called the nba thugs know what a thug is ?

Because from what I see the only thing that makes nba players thugs are their skin color and maybe some tattoos

The face of the league ( best players ) kobe, durant, westbrook, rose, griffin, lebron, wade, paul, Howard) yeah , big criminals there

Its such as shame they don't televise chess match , maybe we can watch a few more good kids knock each other out and fight each other regularly .. yeah makes sense


I agree on some level. Thugs aren't made on the court/ice. Rather, they are made off of it. But in that respect, hockey and any other sport just aren't even comparable. If you look at football, baseball and basketball, there are ALWAYS reports out of people who have committed crimes. Legit crimes. Drugs, robbery, violence. You just don't see that in hockey.

Star_Cards
05-01-2012, 12:14 PM
So a league full of guys that is known for fighting and somewhat encouraged = generalize them as nice guy and far from thugs

An isolated elbow incident and a league is full of thugs


I get it . LOL

Does the guy who called the nba thugs know what a thug is ?

Because from what I see the only thing that makes nba players thugs are their skin color and maybe some tattoos

The face of the league ( best players ) kobe, durant, westbrook, rose, griffin, lebron, wade, paul, Howard) yeah , big criminals there

Its such as shame they don't televise chess match , maybe we can watch a few more good kids knock each other out and fight each other regularly .. yeah makes sense

I'm on the side of the NBA not being a league of thugs, but I probably wouldn't put Kobe at the head of the list of players that are squeaky clean either. lol

Every sport will have it's share of players who get into trouble. That doesn't group them all together.

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 12:16 PM
You do realize fighting is a part of Hockey, right?

I think the term 'thug' in any sport is used too often and often not in the right context, but the reason it's used more in Basketball is when you have someone like Kevin Love stomping on a guy, or the whole Arenas/Crittenton gun incident, and of course the brawl at the Palace. It's reputation, and while not fair to the entire sport based on a few guys here and there, it's what happens.

If its apart of hockey why do they go to the penalty box for a few minutes , agree with eveverything else though

I seen a hockey fight on YouTube where the whole teas were fighting lol ... Thats ridiculous , and we all know why basketball players are called thugs by certain people on here anyway, I'm sure you know.

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 12:23 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/985525-top-10-most-embarrassing-nhl-player-arrests

sticking a taxi driver over 20 cents, or getting busted with coke and an "escort"
or grabbing on a woman and beating her up ... those don't count though.. right?

Patrick Kane= THUG


The men punched the cab driver in the face and head, grabbed his throat and broke his glasses in the attack. They also forced the money out of his hand in which they gave him.

habsheaven
05-01-2012, 12:25 PM
If its apart of hockey why do they go to the penalty box for a few minutes , agree with eveverything else though

I seen a hockey fight on YouTube where the whole teas were fighting lol ... Thats ridiculous , and we all know why basketball players are called thugs by certain people on here anyway, I'm sure you know.


Fighting is in the rulebook, just like tripping, high-sticking, slashing, interference, etc, etc, etc. Are you saying that the fact it is penalized means that it isn't part of the game? If you're only source of hockey is the American media or youtube than I can see why you have the opinion that you have. I never claimed the NBA was full of thugs, but there certainly are a few.

gladdyontherise
05-01-2012, 12:25 PM
If its apart of hockey why do they go to the penalty box for a few minutes , agree with eveverything else though

I seen a hockey fight on YouTube where the whole teas were fighting lol ... Thats ridiculous , and we all know why basketball players are called thugs by certain people on here anyway, I'm sure you know.

Because it's a penalty, that's why, however, Hockey has ALWAYS had fighting, it's not something new.

I've said this many times though, and I'm not saying anyone on here does it (because even if they have, I haven't noticed atleast), but it seems a lot of the time people in general will call someone who isn't white a thug, but they won't call the white athlete a thug.

Myself personally, you have to do a lot to be a "thug" no matter what race you are. Let's use for an example, Delmon Young (I know it's Baseball, but just for the example), what he has done recently, I would never and don't believe what he did makes him a 'thug', I do however think it's a punk move. Same for Kevin Love and his stomping of Scola, he's not a thug either, and once again, it was a punk move.

Too many times some people stereotype when something negative happens.

habsheaven
05-01-2012, 12:26 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/985525-top-10-most-embarrassing-nhl-player-arrests

sticking a taxi driver over 20 cents, or getting busted with coke and an "escort"
or grabbing on a woman and beating her up ... those don't count though.. right?

Patrick Kane= THUG


The men punched the cab driver in the face and head, grabbed his throat and broke his glasses in the attack. They also forced the money out of his hand in which they gave him.

He's an American though. That disqualifies him from my claim. lol

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 12:28 PM
Because it's a penalty, that's why, however, Hockey has ALWAYS had fighting, it's not something new.

I've said this many times though, and I'm not saying anyone on here does it (because even if they have, I haven't noticed atleast), but it seems a lot of the time people in general will call someone who isn't white a thug, but they won't call the white athlete a thug.

Myself personally, you have to do a lot to be a "thug" no matter what race you are. Let's use for an example, Delmon Young (I know it's Baseball, but just for the example), what he has done recently, I would never and don't believe what he did makes him a 'thug', I do however think it's a punk move. Same for Kevin Love and his stomping of Scola, he's not a thug either, and once again, it was a punk move.

Too many times some people stereotype when something negative happens.


:thumb: I approve of this post


BTW: to the guy who was saying something about you dont see that in hockey....... they have done exactly what you tried to use in what happens in other sports and not hockey

habsheaven
05-01-2012, 12:38 PM
:thumb: I approve of this post


BTW: to the guy (what guy?) who was saying something about you dont see that (See what?) in hockey....... they (who is they?) have done exactly what you tried to use in what happens (??) in other sports and not hockey

I'm lost??

Star_Cards
05-01-2012, 12:42 PM
I have heard of hockey players getting into trouble as posted above. Plus they have had their share of on ice issues similar or worse than the Artest elbow.

also, would enforcers not be considered thugs? I'd say they could be since a lot of times these guys are on rosters because they are good at fighting. Sure they are there due to the nature of the game, which is a little different than most sports that don't allow fighting to any degree.

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 12:43 PM
I'm lost??

A guy on this thread said that people in other sports commit, legit crimes .. such as drugs.. robbery and violence.. same happens in hockey, why aren't they thugs?:confused0024:

habsheaven
05-01-2012, 12:51 PM
I have heard of hockey players getting into trouble as posted above. Plus they have had their share of on ice issues similar or worse than the Artest elbow.

also, would enforcers not be considered thugs? I'd say they could be since a lot of times these guys are on rosters because they are good at fighting. Sure they are there due to the nature of the game, which is a little different than most sports that don't allow fighting to any degree.

Obviously athletes from all sports (hockey included) get in trouble on and off the ice. My contention was that hockey players are (generally-speaking) well-known for being good human beings OFF the ice. And most of those "THUG" enforcers are the nicest of them all. Those "thugs" can trade punches and go out for a beer a couple of hours later.

habsheaven
05-01-2012, 12:53 PM
A guy on this thread said that people in other sports commit, legit crimes .. such as drugs.. robbery and violence.. same happens in hockey, why aren't they thugs?:confused0024:

Okay, I understand what you are saying now. He probably didn't mean to state it as an absolute. Sure it happens with hockey players too, just a lot less often.

pghin08
05-01-2012, 01:13 PM
It doesn't happen to NEARLY the same extent. You picked out Patrick Kane, which is about the only example of a hockey player committing a violent crime in the the last several years. Let's just...

BGT Masters
05-01-2012, 01:44 PM
That is a lot, it should be factored in there has to be 2-3x as many NFL players are NHL. I don't know the specific number. Out of what you listed though only 2 of those would be considered a violent crime. I'm not a huge hockey fan so I might not understand, but I never liked how you could flat out assault someone and just because you're in a game its legal? If I am playing against you, and kicking your butt, and you take a cheap shot punch knocking my teeth out or whatever and I do nothing to provoke it, to me that's assault, by the law that's assault. I don't get pumped up by fighting in hockey just like I don't by car wrecks in nascar.

Star_Cards
05-01-2012, 01:46 PM
Obviously athletes from all sports (hockey included) get in trouble on and off the ice. My contention was that hockey players are (generally-speaking) well-known for being good human beings OFF the ice. And most of those "THUG" enforcers are the nicest of them all. Those "thugs" can trade punches and go out for a beer a couple of hours later.

I'd agree with that. I still say that there are more good human beings off the court in the NBA than the ones that get into trouble off and on the court.

mrveggieman
05-01-2012, 01:53 PM
Bottom line is that their are idiots in all walks of life and it is wrong to single out anyone for being more prone to violence because of their occupation....unless they work for the police dept.

pghin08
05-01-2012, 01:55 PM
That is a lot, it should be factored in there has to be 2-3x as many NFL players are NHL. I don't know the specific number. Out of what you listed though only 2 of those would be considered a violent crime. I'm not a huge hockey fan so I might not understand, but I never liked how you could flat out assault someone and just because you're in a game its legal? If I am playing against you, and kicking your butt, and you take a cheap shot punch knocking my teeth out or whatever and I do nothing to provoke it, to me that's assault, by the law that's assault. I don't get pumped up by fighting in hockey just like I don't by car wrecks in nascar.

Absolutely. And yes, only two of what I listed were violent crimes, but we're only talking about a four month period.

pghin08
05-01-2012, 01:58 PM
Bottom line is that their are idiots in all walks of life and it is wrong to single out anyone for being more prone to violence because of the occupation....unless they work for the police dept.

I'll agree to that.

duwal
05-01-2012, 03:43 PM
best thing to show would be to look at a league and see what percentage of players have a criminal record. Simple as that, which league has the most players that have broken laws and been arrested...

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 04:31 PM
isnt there about 1000 more football players?


30 teams hockey x 23 active player roster= 690

30x53= 1696

does this also account for minor baseballplayers (A AA AAA) or practice squad(because i dont know who some of those guys were that was used as an example earlier)

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 04:32 PM
That is a lot, it should be factored in there has to be 2-3x as many NFL players are NHL. I don't know the specific number. Out of what you listed though only 2 of those would be considered a violent crime. I'm not a huge hockey fan so I might not understand, but I never liked how you could flat out assault someone and just because you're in a game its legal? If I am playing against you, and kicking your butt, and you take a cheap shot punch knocking my teeth out or whatever and I do nothing to provoke it, to me that's assault, by the law that's assault. I don't get pumped up by fighting in hockey just like I don't by car wrecks in nascar.

:love0030:

smoking weed shouldn't even be used as an example honestly, as its not a legit crime really

pghin08
05-01-2012, 04:50 PM
:love0030:

smoking weed shouldn't even be used as an example honestly, as its not a legit crime really

I'm for legalizing weed, but yeah, as the law is written now, it's a legit crime. That's why they got arrested.

duwal
05-01-2012, 06:00 PM
isnt there about 1000 more football players?


30 teams hockey x 23 active player roster= 690

30x53= 1696

does this also account for minor baseballplayers (A AA AAA) or practice squad(because i dont know who some of those guys were that was used as an example earlier)


no merely for professional players. Also the amount of NHL players who have a criminal record are less than 1& of the league

lloydr04
05-01-2012, 06:21 PM
no merely for professional players. Also the amount of NHL players who have a criminal record are less than 1& of the league

Doesn't matter to me , there are still thugs in the nhl.. if we are using SCF version of thug which is a colored person who they would call "bada$%" if they were white, simple as that

duwal
05-01-2012, 06:30 PM
Doesn't matter to me , there are still thugs in the nhl.. if we are using SCF version of thug which is a colored person who they would call "bada$%" if they were white, simple as that


you're the only one in this thread saying that a 'thug' is a black person

pghin08
05-02-2012, 10:52 AM
you're the only one in this thread saying that a 'thug' is a black person

Yeah, I'm not saying that either. Most people that in my life that I've considered "thugs" are white.

lloydr04
05-02-2012, 11:06 AM
you're the only one in this thread saying that a 'thug' is a black person

He knows who im talking to , and it wasn't you about that:pound:

habsheaven
05-02-2012, 11:16 AM
He knows who im talking to , and it wasn't you about that:pound:

I hate having to go back and re-read a thread that has been going on for days. Who are you talking to? Who said all "thugs" are black? :frusty:

lloydr04
05-02-2012, 11:20 AM
I hate having to go back and re-read a thread that has been going on for days. Who are you talking to? Who said all "thugs" are black? :frusty:

Nobody actually came out and said it because the P and R section doesn't speak their true feelings.. i know how it is around here:pound:

mrveggieman
05-02-2012, 11:42 AM
Nobody actually came out and said it because the P and R section doesn't speak their true feelings.. i know how it is around here:pound:


Sad but true. :confused0024:

habsheaven
05-02-2012, 11:55 AM
Nobody actually came out and said it because the P and R section doesn't speak their true feelings.. i know how it is around here:pound:

Oh, I get it. You ignore what people say because you know what they are actually thinking and base your arguement on that. I will continue to take people's comments at face value and not speculate on "what they are actual thinking". lol

duwal
05-02-2012, 11:56 AM
Nobody actually came out and said it because the P and R section doesn't speak their true feelings.. i know how it is around here:pound:


if anything the P&R boards have people that speak their true feelings too much which is why there are always some heated conversations or closed threads.

pghin08
05-02-2012, 11:57 AM
if anything the P&R boards have people that speak their true feelings too much which is why there are always some heated conversations or closed threads.

As a P&R mod, I second this. I have zero trouble speaking true feelings.

lloydr04
05-02-2012, 11:58 AM
Oh, I get it. You ignore what people say because you know what they are actually thinking and base your arguement on that. I will continue to take people's comments at face value and not speculate on "what they are actual thinking". lol

I dont care what you do , you are your own man..:twitch:

Star_Cards
05-02-2012, 12:03 PM
Nobody actually came out and said it because the P and R section doesn't speak their true feelings.. i know how it is around here:pound:

couldn't agree with this any less. From my experience on the P&R board for the past 3-4 years, people definitely speak their minds and show their true feelings about things.

duane1969
05-02-2012, 12:04 PM
Nobody actually came out and said it because the P and R section doesn't speak their true feelings.. i know how it is around here:pound:

Here are some true "feelings". The term "thug" is relative to how it is used.

I relate the term "thug" to a black person because I listen to lots of different music including rap and hip-hop and rappers are the ones always referring to themselves as thugs and Iassociate rap/hip-hop with black culture. Rappers are the ones wearing t-shirts that say THUG on it. Rappers are the ones getting "Thug Life" tattooed across their stomach. Tupac is the one with an album named Thug Life. The website thuglife.com is dedicated to hip-hop music.

I have never heard Toby Keith refer to himself as a thug in a song. As much as he might want it, nobody will ever consider Justin Beiber a thug.

Now, if I hear someone say "He is being a thug/acting like a thug" then I think of a bully. A punk. Someone who needs their teeth and attitude rearranged.

lloydr04
05-02-2012, 12:05 PM
couldn't agree with this any less. From my experience on the P&R board for the past 3-4 years, people definitely speak their minds and show their true feelings about things.

Ive been looking at the P and R section just haven't posted alot... but if you can't see what im talking about .. i can't help you and we just leave it at that :confused0024:

lloydr04
05-02-2012, 12:07 PM
Sad but true.

:confused0024: at least you agree, i seem to be looking at the wrong board because im SURE if a member had something to say .. they would, right?


























Right?:pound:

mrveggieman
05-02-2012, 12:12 PM
As much as he might want it, nobody will ever consider Justin Beiber a thug.




You must of never hear this from hardcore thug rapper Justin Beiber: :pound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBVXPYTzczU

habsheaven
05-02-2012, 12:17 PM
I relate the term "thug" to poor youth growing up in the inner-city who choose to bow down to peer pressure. It has more to do with economics than it does colour.

pghin08
05-02-2012, 12:35 PM
i relate the term "thug" to poor youth growing up in the inner-city who choose to bow down to peer pressure. It has more to do with economics than it does colour.

+100000000000

lloydr04
05-02-2012, 01:54 PM
I relate the term "thug" to poor youth growing up in the inner-city who choose to bow down to peer pressure. It has more to do with economics than it does colour.

inner city or outer city.. the difference:confused0024:

habsheaven
05-02-2012, 01:56 PM
inner city or outer city.. the difference:confused0024:

Never said there was one.

lloydr04
05-02-2012, 01:59 PM
Never said there was one.

Just curious as to if someone grew up in the same circumstances , isnt considered the same thing... "inner city" or the outter part it doesn't matter or make a difference......:typing:

BGT Masters
05-02-2012, 02:05 PM
Hmmm, my definition of a thug has nothing to do with where you are from or how much money you have. If you're a jerk who takes cheap shots at people, acts all bad_ _ _, picks on people who they see as easy targets, that makes you a thug. Someone who would rather use physical violence and/or verbal threats/intimidation rather than using calm rational talk to resolve an issue is also a thug. To me a thug is basically a grown up bully of sorts.

Star_Cards
05-02-2012, 02:17 PM
Ive been looking at the P and R section just haven't posted alot... but if you can't see what im talking about .. i can't help you and we just leave it at that :confused0024:

thanks but it's not about help. I speak from my experiences. if you gather differently then that's perfectly fine. I just don't see where you say the whole board doesn't speak what they believe. I see a lot of varied stances on a lot of different topics over the years. I take the posters on here at face value. I never post something that I don't feel or believe at that time so for you to lump the whole section into some sort of fake PC type of mindset I'd question how much you've read, because this forum is far from a bunch of people that are toeing the political correctnous line.

Star_Cards
05-02-2012, 02:20 PM
Hmmm, my definition of a thug has nothing to do with where you are from or how much money you have. If you're a jerk who takes cheap shots at people, acts all bad_ _ _, picks on people who they see as easy targets, that makes you a thug. Someone who would rather use physical violence and/or verbal threats/intimidation rather than using calm rational talk to resolve an issue is also a thug. To me a thug is basically a grown up bully of sorts.

I'd say that this is a pretty good definition of a thug. It's definitely a term that has a various amount of ways of usage. Some people may limit it to the use of a skin color but I don't.

duwal
05-02-2012, 07:26 PM
thanks but it's not about help. I speak from my experiences. if you gather differently then that's perfectly fine. I just don't see where you say the whole board doesn't speak what they believe. I see a lot of varied stances on a lot of different topics over the years. I take the posters on here at face value. I never post something that I don't feel or believe at that time so for you to lump the whole section into some sort of fake PC type of mindset I'd question how much you've read, because this forum is far from a bunch of people that are toeing the political correctnous line.


yes if anything this is the message board and threads where people say exactly what they are passionate about for or against, even going as far as to saying things they would usually be more quiet about