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pghin08
05-03-2012, 09:33 AM
Barack Obama tore down a lot of barriers on his way to being the first African-American President. Mitt Romney, if he were to be elected, would forever change the religious landscape of the Presidency. So to me, it kind of begged a question.

Could we ever elect an atheist President?

My gut says no. We live in a nation where freedom of religion is a core value, but where freedom of non-religion is shrouded in judgement. I'm not an atheist, but I think that as a group, they tend to be unfairly judged. I know atheists who are kinder and more generous that most Christians. I don't vote for candidates based on their religious beliefs whatsoever: I don't care if they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, whatever. But I think I'm in the minority on this.

So what do you all think?

mrveggieman
05-03-2012, 09:38 AM
I would vote for an atheist over any right wing religious nut like santorum in a heartbeat.

AUTaxMan
05-03-2012, 09:39 AM
Absolutely we could, given the rate moral society is deteriorating. Nobody running as an avowed atheist will win any time soon, but someone who is an actual atheist claiming to be a Christian could win.

Haven't we already had an atheist President?

pghin08
05-03-2012, 09:59 AM
Absolutely we could, given the rate moral society is deteriorating. Nobody running as an avowed atheist will win any time soon, but someone who is an actual atheist claiming to be a Christian could win.

Haven't we already had an atheist President?

We have not. Many of the founding fathers were thought to be deists, but there's never really been an atheist in the office.

habsheaven
05-03-2012, 10:13 AM
Yes, someday you will have an Atheist president. It will take many generations before it happens and the US as you know it will no longer exist, but you will have one.

pghin08
05-03-2012, 10:21 AM
Yes, someday you will have an Atheist president. It will take many generations before it happens and the US as you know it will no longer exist, but you will have one.

That's a pretty cryptic statement.

shrewsbury
05-03-2012, 10:33 AM
Yes, someday you will have an Atheist president. It will take many generations before it happens and the US as you know it will no longer exist, but you will have one.

cool, can you get me next weeks loto numbers?

Star_Cards
05-03-2012, 10:38 AM
I won't say no, but I think it will be a very long time. I really don't care about a politicians religious beliefs as long as he doesn't use them to restrict citizens from having the same rights as others.

habsheaven
05-03-2012, 10:40 AM
cool, can you get me next weeks loto numbers?

C'mon man. Do you know how many lottos there are going on at any one time. Be a little more specific and I will FedEx them to you pronto.

habsheaven
05-03-2012, 10:44 AM
That's a pretty cryptic statement.

That statement refers to the current "religious" status of the US. The rest of the world, with the exception of the Muslim states, is becoming more secular with every generation. The US appears to be the slowest of western countries following this path but it will happen eventually.

shrewsbury
05-03-2012, 10:44 AM
thank you sir, i know i can always count on you

mrveggieman
05-03-2012, 10:49 AM
That statement refers to the current "religious" status of the US. The rest of the world, with the exception of the Muslim states, is becoming more secular with every generation. The US appears to be the slowest of western countries following this path but it will happen eventually.


Do you ever think the muslim countries will become more secular?

habsheaven
05-03-2012, 11:01 AM
Do you ever think the muslim countries will become more secular?

Nope.

I should edit that. Not many will.

duwal
05-03-2012, 01:28 PM
I could only hope so but I don't think so with the amount of people in the U.S. that believe there is a god helping them

duane1969
05-03-2012, 02:04 PM
I don't see it ever happening.

According to a study done in 2010 by Putnam and Campbell for their book American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us, 83% of Americans identify themselves with a religion or as being part of a religious group.

The Pew Global Attitudes Project did a 44 country study on religion and found that 59% of Americans consider religion to be a very important part of their lives, giving the US one of the highest percentages of populations that feels this way. Only countries with theocratic Islamic governments had a higher number.

So just under 2/3rds consider religion an important part of their lives and more than 8 in 10 people identify with a religion in some manner. I don't see how an athiest could get elected with those kinds of numbers to deal with.

pghin08
05-03-2012, 02:19 PM
I don't see it ever happening.

According to a study done in 2010 by Putnam and Campbell for their book American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us, 83% of Americans identify themselves with a religion or as being part of a religious group.

The Pew Global Attitudes Project did a 44 country study on religion and found that 59% of Americans consider religion to be a very important part of their lives, giving the US one of the highest percentages of populations that feels this way. Only countries with theocratic Islamic governments had a higher number.

So just under 2/3rds consider religion an important part of their lives and more than 8 in 10 people identify with a religion in some manner. I don't see how an athiest could get elected with those kinds of numbers to deal with.

That's an odd dynamic to me, when you compare it to the Fox News media movement of "the persecution of Christians in this country". (I watch Fox News on a more consistent basis than I usually care to admit, but this is a pervasive theme on that network). If we're sitting here saying that an atheist can't be elected President, then shouldn't it be the atheists who have a right to cry persecution, if anyone?

Star_Cards
05-03-2012, 02:31 PM
That's an odd dynamic to me, when you compare it to the Fox News media movement of "the persecution of Christians in this country". (I watch Fox News on a more consistent basis than I usually care to admit, but this is a pervasive theme on that network). If we're sitting here saying that an atheist can't be elected President, then shouldn't it be the atheists who have a right to cry persecution, if anyone?

that's what is so hilarious when people start talking about this so called "war on christianity" or the ever so popular on FOX "war on christmas".

freethrowtommy
05-04-2012, 10:51 PM
Absolutely we could, given the rate moral society is deteriorating. Nobody running as an avowed atheist will win any time soon, but someone who is an actual atheist claiming to be a Christian could win.

Haven't we already had an atheist President?

Was this quip necessary?

What does morals have to do with believing in a deity? Just because someone believes in a higher power doesn't make them any more or less moral than someone who doesn't. There are plenty of bad people who believe they can say a prayer and they are forgiven. How is that right?

*censored*
05-04-2012, 11:43 PM
"Short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but." - Rev. Lovejoy

Seems to fit my thoughts here.

habsheaven
05-04-2012, 11:47 PM
Was this quip necessary?

What does morals have to do with believing in a deity? Just because someone believes in a higher power doesn't make them any more or less moral than someone who doesn't. There are plenty of bad people who believe they can say a prayer and they are forgiven. How is that right?

That's the most offensive thing about most christians. They seem to think they have a right to the moral high ground just because they believe in a deity. They can't quite grasp the concept that society sets the moral code not a God that cannot make up His mind.

AUTaxMan
05-05-2012, 12:09 AM
Was this quip necessary?

What does morals have to do with believing in a deity? Just because someone believes in a higher power doesn't make them any more or less moral than someone who doesn't. There are plenty of bad people who believe they can say a prayer and they are forgiven. How is that right?

Is it a merely a coincidence that society is seemingly becoming both less moral and more atheist?

habsheaven
05-05-2012, 07:12 AM
Is it a merely a coincidence that society is seemingly becoming both less moral and more atheist?

Yes, it is a coincidence. It has more to do with that so-called free will your God granted us than anything else. For example, compare the crime rates in countries where the populaces free will is being squashed (north Korea, Iran, etc.) by the government restricting freedoms. Now look at the US, where the citizens value their freedom more than anything else and the government for the most part restricts little.

MadMan1978
05-05-2012, 10:48 AM
With the majority of the people in this country believing in some form of "God" I do not seeing that happening. However as their world view changes that can change as well. Believe it or not people do care about religion and those have a strong religious beliefs.

DaClyde
05-05-2012, 11:01 AM
I contend that, by and large, the moral fabric of the world never changes. It never gets better or worse, it's just that with the increasingly pervasive reach of communications and technology, we are made more aware of the bad happening around the world (there just aren't any ratings in reporting good news), and also notice that today there are just a heck of a lot more of us in the world. So today we hear there is a dictator somewhere oppressively squashing his country. That has always been the case somewhere. On some level, every problem we have today has been the same as the problems had in cultures for the last 5,000-10,000 years.

I think it would be great to have an athiest president (or at least an agnostic president), just so we could have a 4 year block of time without hearing nonsense about how "God" supports the U.S. in some questionable policy decision being made by the executive branch. For any authentic Christian, presuming to speak for what God does and does not condone should be considered blasphemy. Though, I guess the way that word is thrown around, usually that just means someone is contradicting a clergyman and his twisted interpretation of the Bible.

duwal
05-05-2012, 06:13 PM
Is it a merely a coincidence that society is seemingly becoming both less moral and more atheist?


absolutely, the two do not connect automatically. Just because you do not believe in god does not mean that you do not have the same morals or common sense than those that do

themanishere
05-05-2012, 07:19 PM
Is it a merely a coincidence that society is seemingly becoming both less moral and more atheist?

Society has always been immoral. It simply has not been as salient as in the past, what with media coverage and the interconnectedness of today's world.

JustAlex
05-07-2012, 02:58 AM
It's definitely possible!

And as a NON believer myself, I hope to see it before I die.

Of course I know that the way the U.S is now....it almost seems IMPOSSIBLE!


Then again, I'm sure 50 years ago, most Black people would've said that seeing a Black President was impossible.

shrewsbury
05-07-2012, 10:36 AM
what would it matter?

AUTaxMan
05-07-2012, 11:22 AM
I contend that, by and large, the moral fabric of the world never changes. It never gets better or worse, it's just that with the increasingly pervasive reach of communications and technology, we are made more aware of the bad happening around the world (there just aren't any ratings in reporting good news), and also notice that today there are just a heck of a lot more of us in the world. So today we hear there is a dictator somewhere oppressively squashing his country. That has always been the case somewhere. On some level, every problem we have today has been the same as the problems had in cultures for the last 5,000-10,000 years.

That's a very good point.

AUTaxMan
05-07-2012, 11:23 AM
Just because you do not believe in god does not mean that you do not have the same morals or common sense than those that do

I did not say that.

AUTaxMan
05-07-2012, 11:25 AM
It's definitely possible!

And as a NON believer myself, I hope to see it before I die.

Of course I know that the way the U.S is now....it almost seems IMPOSSIBLE!


Then again, I'm sure 50 years ago, most Black people would've said that seeing a Black President was impossible.

Why do you hope to see it? Have the spiritual beliefs of our Presidents hindered our national progress during our lifetimes? If so, how?

tsjct
05-07-2012, 12:46 PM
The question should be when we will we get the Atheist President out of office NOW. Barak Husein Obama is our Atheist President.

habsheaven
05-07-2012, 12:53 PM
The question should be when we will we get the Atheist President out of office NOW. Barak Husein Obama is our Atheist President.

Good to see you making progress and he is no longer your Muslim president.

AUTaxMan
05-07-2012, 02:03 PM
Good to see you making progress and he is no longer your Muslim president.

Ha.

duwal
05-07-2012, 02:59 PM
I did not say that.


no but you asked if it was a coincidence that society is becoming less moral and more athiest and I was just stating the two don't connect

duwal
05-07-2012, 03:00 PM
The question should be when we will we get the Atheist President out of office NOW. Barak Husein Obama is our Atheist President.


4 MORE YEARS!! 4 MORE YEARS!! :tongue0011:

duane1969
05-07-2012, 07:36 PM
That's an odd dynamic to me, when you compare it to the Fox News media movement of "the persecution of Christians in this country". (I watch Fox News on a more consistent basis than I usually care to admit, but this is a pervasive theme on that network). If we're sitting here saying that an atheist can't be elected President, then shouldn't it be the atheists who have a right to cry persecution, if anyone?

Sorry, I am late coming back to the party. Long weekend.

I do not think that athiest should be crying that they are persecuted at all. The term persecution implies being targeted for mistreatment. I can't recall ever hearing that athiest are being dragged into the street and beaten or having their homes burned down. Having a lower chance of there being an athiest president does not equate to persecution.


Was this quip necessary?

What does morals have to do with believing in a deity? Just because someone believes in a higher power doesn't make them any more or less moral than someone who doesn't. There are plenty of bad people who believe they can say a prayer and they are forgiven. How is that right?

Perhaps I took it differently than most, but I think he was inferring that as it becomes more acceptable to be athiest it is also beoming more acceptable to be carnal.

Let's be honest, when religion ruled the world there were two groups of people, those who believed (or believed for fear of death) and those who did not. Those who did not were a very small minority and were often ostracized and outcast, even choosing to live apart to avoid death/burning/crucifixion/etc.

In these modern times it is more "acceptable" to be a sinner than ever. Ask any preacher and he will tell you, the numbers of church-goers are declining. I am 42 years old and when I was a kid EVERYONE went to church. Now I know very few people that are faithful Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night attendees.

I don't thin he meant that the two are symptoms of each other but that the two are symptoms of a new level of acceptance of not being religious in our society.

JustAlex
05-07-2012, 07:53 PM
Why do you hope to see it? Have the spiritual beliefs of our Presidents hindered our national progress during our lifetimes? If so, how?
YES!!!!

By not allowing all U.S citizens to be equal....mainly homosexuals.

Just because a 2000 year old book says we should HATE gays does not mean their ridiculous laws should apply in the 21st century.

Also, the Bible endorses SLAVERY!

Many southerners used to defend having slaves by saying that since the bible was OK with it, the U.S should also be Ok with it.

Also, one only has to look at the GOP specifically people like Bachmann, Santorum and Rick Perry to see just how DANGEROUS religion really is!

Faith is NOT a virtue, it's complete delusion!

It's better to think rationally and have logic.

It is logical to give everyone equal rights, it is rational to say that slavery is an abomination.

JustAlex
05-07-2012, 07:56 PM
Barak Husein Obama is our Atheist President.

I WISH!

He's no where near atheist or liberal for that matter.

He's actually more to the right than Clinton!

11chaos
05-08-2012, 08:35 AM
God, I hope not.

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 08:45 AM
justalex,

i don't know what happened to you, but it must have been bad.

AUTaxMan
05-08-2012, 08:47 AM
YES!!!!

By not allowing all U.S citizens to be equal....mainly homosexuals.

Just because a 2000 year old book says we should HATE gays does not mean their ridiculous laws should apply in the 21st century.

Also, one only has to look at the GOP specifically people like Bachmann, Santorum and Rick Perry to see just how DANGEROUS religion really is!

Faith is NOT a virtue, it's complete delusion!

It's better to think rationally and have logic.


Homosexuals are not a protected class under the Constitution and are not entitled to the same legal rights as married persons. Nevertheless ,I challenge you to tell me what rights they don't have. What other persons do you claim are treated unequally?

The President does not make the laws. He merely sets policy.

Faith and logic are not mutually exclusive. Most of the time, a conclusion reached by the Christian faith has a logical basis as well.

The Bible says we aren't to hate anyone and does not endorse slavery. You are misguided and have a deficient understanding of what the Bible says on those issues.

Slavery has not been a relevant issue in this country for 150 years.

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 09:00 AM
taxman, slavery should not be an issue, but some still try and make it one.

the funny thing here is people try to relate christians to the crazy ones, like the west baptist protesting hate mongers. this is no different in thinking every muslim is a terrorist, but people still do.

not only does his understanding of the bible lack greatly, but more importantly his understanding of jesus.

and i agree homosexuals have the same rights. they get the benefits from their partners employement, and they can go anywhere and do anything my wife and i can.
there sexual preference is different, but what you do behind closed doors is your choice.

i don't recall jesus beating gays or owning a slave

11chaos
05-08-2012, 09:01 AM
YES!!!!

By not allowing all U.S citizens to be equal....mainly homosexuals.

Just because a 2000 year old book says we should HATE gays does not mean their ridiculous laws should apply in the 21st century.

Also, the Bible endorses SLAVERY!

Many southerners used to defend having slaves by saying that since the bible was OK with it, the U.S should also be Ok with it.

Also, one only has to look at the GOP specifically people like Bachmann, Santorum and Rick Perry to see just how DANGEROUS religion really is!

Faith is NOT a virtue, it's complete delusion!

It's better to think rationally and have logic.

It is logical to give everyone equal rights, it is rational to say that slavery is an abomination.

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff329/seabee303/Logic-1.jpg

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 09:09 AM
Homosexuals are not a protected class under the Constitution and are not entitled to the same legal rights as married persons. Nevertheless ,I challenge you to tell me what rights they don't have. What other persons do you claim are treated unequally?

The President does not make the laws. He merely sets policy.

Faith and logic are not mutually exclusive. Most of the time, a conclusion reached by the Christian faith has a logical basis as well.

The Bible says we aren't to hate anyone and does not endorse slavery. You are misguided and have a deficient understanding of what the Bible says on those issues.

Slavery has not been a relevant issue in this country for 150 years.

Can you cite a few examples of Christian conclusions that have a logical basis?

And you are incorrect, the Bible does endorse slavery.

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 09:18 AM
And you are incorrect, the Bible does endorse slavery

you are talking old testament, not about jesus, so you need to talk to the jews and muslims.

logical conclusion of a christian? don't covet, steal, or kill, seems pretty logical to me.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 09:31 AM
Is not the Old Testament part of the Bible?

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 10:43 AM
yes sir, but we are talking about a work that man has influenced, changed, and twisted to fit his needs, not that of jesus. it is hard for me to argue the OT, though i know it, i have not vested much time in it, as a christian it does not have much bearing on my beliefs

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 11:00 AM
yes sir, but we are talking about a work that man has influenced, changed, and twisted to fit his needs, not that of jesus. it is hard for me to argue the OT, though i know it, i have not vested much time in it, as a christian it does not have much bearing on my beliefs

But if I go out and purchase a Bible today would I not find it filled with OT passages, including the ones that I feel endorse slavery?

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 11:35 AM
But if I go out and purchase a Bible today would I not find it filled with OT passages, including the ones that I feel endorse slavery?

certainly, but after thousands of years you will find many things in the bible that was not there to begin with.

i know that is an easy cop out, to say this is real and this is fake, what some say is to pick and choose. but this is no different than science to me. you create a hypothesis, then collect the data to back it up, if the data doesn't match, then you start again.

anyone who argues that the works of antiquity, whom nearly all were transcribed by christian monks, were not changed a bit, hasn't done the legwork. when you find that these same people transcribed the new testament then we might be able to conclude that the NT might have been altered as well.

looking at the NT from this point of view, it is easy to start to collect data to prove your hypothesis.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 12:15 PM
certainly, but after thousands of years you will find many things in the bible that was not there to begin with.

i know that is an easy cop out, to say this is real and this is fake, what some say is to pick and choose. but this is no different than science to me. you create a hypothesis, then collect the data to back it up, if the data doesn't match, then you start again.

anyone who argues that the works of antiquity, whom nearly all were transcribed by christian monks, were not changed a bit, hasn't done the legwork. when you find that these same people transcribed the new testament then we might be able to conclude that the NT might have been altered as well.

looking at the NT from this point of view, it is easy to start to collect data to prove your hypothesis.

Well, the Bible I refer to is the Bible I have at home. The same Bible that is being distributed today to christians today all over the world. If it has things in it that do not apply then they should be removed. If something is "the word of God" it should stand the test of time. As many claim it does in other aspects.

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 02:46 PM
Well, the Bible I refer to is the Bible I have at home. The same Bible that is being distributed today to christians today all over the world. If it has things in it that do not apply then they should be removed. If something is "the word of God" it should stand the test of time. As many claim it does in other aspects.

and is god handing those out? and did you ever read the NT? If so, please point out where jesus says the NT is coming and it is the word of god.

also are they in aramaic, greek, or hebrew?

do you realize that even translating hebrew to english has many interpretations?

so if all this is about being against bible thumpers, then go ahead, i am behind you.

but personally understanding god from a book written by men, well it may be written to promote man more than god.

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 02:48 PM
certainly, but after thousands of years you will find many things in the bible that was not there to begin with.

i know that is an easy cop out, to say this is real and this is fake, what some say is to pick and choose. but this is no different than science to me. you create a hypothesis, then collect the data to back it up, if the data doesn't match, then you start again.

anyone who argues that the works of antiquity, whom nearly all were transcribed by christian monks, were not changed a bit, hasn't done the legwork. when you find that these same people transcribed the new testament then we might be able to conclude that the NT might have been altered as well.

looking at the NT from this point of view, it is easy to start to collect data to prove your hypothesis.

If there have been changes over time by man, how do you know what has been changed and what was the actual word of god. is it possible it all have been changed? Is there a way to figure out what has been changed by man?

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 02:52 PM
If there have been changes over time by man, how do you know what has been changed and what was the actual word of god. is it possible it all have been changed? Is there a way to figure out what has been changed by man?

let me first say, i am not the one to know the answers for anyone besides myself.

for me, it is exactly what everyone is saying, common sense, science, research, hypothesis, and collecting data.

i believe there is a way, but that way is for me, and not only do i piss off the christians but also the scientists

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 02:56 PM
let me first say, i am not the one to know the answers for anyone besides myself.

for me, it is exactly what everyone is saying, common sense, science, research, hypothesis, and collecting data.

i believe there is a way, but that way is for me, and not only do i piss off the christians but also the scientists

that's fair. I just think if a believer of the bible thinks that some parts have been changed by man, I wonder then how can any of it still be viewed as original. Seems like the changes by man would compromise the whole thing, making it possible that it all has been altered if not entirely created by man.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 03:24 PM
and is god handing those out? and did you ever read the NT? If so, please point out where jesus says the NT is coming and it is the word of god.

also are they in aramaic, greek, or hebrew?

do you realize that even translating hebrew to english has many interpretations?

so if all this is about being against bible thumpers, then go ahead, i am behind you.

but personally understanding god from a book written by men, well it may be written to promote man more than god.

My contention from the start was that the Bible condoned slavery. I never made the contention that Jesus did.

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 03:38 PM
I just think if a believer of the bible thinks that some parts have been changed by man, I wonder then how can any of it still be viewed as original. Seems like the changes by man would compromise the whole thing, making it possible that it all has been altered if not entirely created by man.

i would say remember this

oldest surviving copy of caesar's works is 1000 years after it was written

homer over 500 years later

plato 1200 years later

tacitus 1000 years later

but we all assume we are reading right from the horses mouth

Star_Cards
05-08-2012, 03:50 PM
i would say remember this

oldest surviving copy of caesar's works is 1000 years after it was written

homer over 500 years later

plato 1200 years later

tacitus 1000 years later

but we all assume we are reading right from the horses mouth

and I would wonder the same things about their writings and don't use them as a predominant structure in my beliefs.

JustAlex
05-08-2012, 04:12 PM
Homosexuals are not a protected class under the Constitution and are not entitled to the same legal rights as married persons. Nevertheless ,I challenge you to tell me what rights they don't have. What other persons do you claim are treated unequally?

This is simply HILARIOUS!

Christians HATE homosexuality, their STUPID book tells them they are an abomination and thus they think that gives them a right to treat them lower than humans.

Homosexuals don't have the right to get married, enough said!


The Bible says we aren't to hate anyone and does not endorse slavery. You are misguided and have a deficient understanding of what the Bible says on those issues.

Apparently, YOU HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

Please make sure to read it next time! :thumb:

theonedru
05-08-2012, 10:17 PM
This is simply HILARIOUS!

Christians HATE homosexuality, their STUPID book tells them they are an abomination and thus they think that gives them a right to treat them lower than humans.

Homosexuals don't have the right to get married, enough said!



Apparently, YOU HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

Please make sure to read it next time! :thumb:

Dude you can argue til your blue in the face and say what you will but please try and be somewhat respectful in doing so. Also not all Christians hate homosexuality.

JustAlex
05-08-2012, 11:21 PM
Dude you can argue til your blue in the face and say what you will but please try and be somewhat respectful in doing so. Also not all Christians hate homosexuality.

Pfft....Not all Christians hate homosexuality?

That's a DAMN LIE!

The Bible clearly states that Homosexuality is a sin and God hates ALL sin.

BTW, I'm not being disrespectful, IMO christians get more respect than they deserve.

They are a group that shun, judge, and scare others because their book tells them to.

AUTaxMan
05-08-2012, 11:27 PM
Pfft....Not all Christians hate homosexuality?

That's a DAMN LIE!

The Bible clearly states that Homosexuality is a sin and God hates ALL sin.

BTW, I'm not being disrespectful, IMO christians get more respect than they deserve.

They are a group that shun, judge, and scare others because their book tells them to.

Actually, it's the truth. You are the one prejudging here.

shrewsbury
05-08-2012, 11:38 PM
got some news, i am a christian and do not hate gays, and i will go on to say i don't even dislike all gays, the reason i say all is that there are jerks in every culture, religion, and sexual preference.

i would not enjoy meeting the christians that have instilled these fears and beliefs about chrsitianity in you

i can assure you there are atleast a few of us christians who are not hate mongers, racist, sexist, slave owning, or even worried about hell, and not because we think we have a free ride, but jesus is jesus whetehr i get a reward for that or not

JustAlex
05-08-2012, 11:47 PM
got some news, i am a christian and do not hate gays, and i will go on to say i don't even dislike all gays, the reason i say all is that there are jerks in every culture, religion, and sexual preference.

i would not enjoy meeting the christians that have instilled these fears and beliefs about chrsitianity in you

i can assure you there are atleast a few of us christians who are not hate mongers, racist, sexist, slave owning, or even worried about hell, and not because we think we have a free ride, but jesus is jesus whetehr i get a reward for that or not

You might not "hate" gays, but I'm sure you think the ACT of homosexuality is a sin and therefore that's the ROOT of the problem.

Your bible also says that eating shell fish and pork is wrong, do you follow this law?

It also says you can't work on Sundays, have you ever worked on sunday, if so, you are committing a "Sin".

BTW....The reasons I say this about christians is because I used to be a christian myself, I used to think that gays were an abomination.

I used to think that Sin, the devil, and demons were real.

And I know for a fact that many mainstream christians also think this way.

shrewsbury
05-09-2012, 12:05 AM
well the issue is you are assuming all of us christians base our beliefs soley on the bible.

so here are your answers

i think if i did an act of homosexuality i would have sinned. but what others do, i cannot judge. who i am to judge? who i am to say what a sin is for anyone but myself?
as as far as eating goes;

Jesus said to them, " For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

seems pretty darn logical to me

AUTaxMan
05-09-2012, 12:06 AM
You might not "hate" gays, but I'm sure you think the ACT of homosexuality is a sin and therefore that's the ROOT of the problem.

Your bible also says that eating shell fish and pork is wrong, do you follow this law?

It also says you can't work on Sundays, have you ever worked on sunday, if so, you are committing a "Sin".

BTW....The reasons I say this about christians is because I used to be a christian myself, I used to think that gays were an abomination.

I used to think that Sin, the devil, and demons were real.

And I know for a fact that many mainstream christians also think this way.

You apparently don't have a very good understanding of the Bible.

JustAlex
05-09-2012, 12:26 AM
i think if i did an act of homosexuality i would have sinned. but what others do, i cannot judge. who i am to judge? who i am to say what a sin is for anyone but myself?

Ok, then why are you opposed to gay marriage?

If it's not YOU that will judge but God, then we should allow them to get married.

And if there is a God, then they will have to be judged.

However, here on earth, we should give them the same and equal rights we enjoy.



You apparently don't have a very good understanding of the Bible.

Which part did I get wrong...please inform me.

And before you post anything down, I should let you know that I actually studied the bible for YEARS, I know the bible very well, so don't try any tricks.

boba
05-09-2012, 12:36 AM
Pfft....Not all Christians hate homosexuality?

That's a DAMN LIE!

The Bible clearly states that Homosexuality is a sin and God hates ALL sin.

BTW, I'm not being disrespectful, IMO christians get more respect than they deserve.

They are a group that shun, judge, and scare others because their book tells them to.

Sorry for the off topic question, but do you collect cards?

shrewsbury
05-09-2012, 12:40 AM
any tricks? now that's funny

again you are assuming the bible is the only thing out there that teaches us about jesus, i would say not

i would not be gay so i would not be in a gay marriage, so that is why i am against it
a homosexual relationship will not produce children, i believe (and i know all will not agree) this is what marriage is about, raising a family
before you argue you don't have to be married to have kids, let me say you don;t have to be married to be gay

if my friends were married i am sure i would be there, and helping with the wedding in many ways

i would not say you shouldn't get married, why would i ruin anything for them? but it does not mean i agree with it

that is up to all of us to decide, not me alone

shrewsbury
05-09-2012, 12:40 AM
boba, you are always off topic!!!!!!!

boba
05-09-2012, 12:50 AM
boba, you are always off topic!!!!!!!

Haha, I try my hardest.:ashamed0001:

JustAlex
05-09-2012, 12:52 AM
Sorry for the off topic question, but do you collect cards?

Yes, plenty :thumb:

I recently bought a 2012 Bowman Jumbo Hobby box.

But I love discussing religion and politics, that's why this is the place I will mostly be at in SCF.

shrewsbury
05-09-2012, 12:58 AM
then i will welcome you here

though it seems we will disagree on just about everything, nonetheless your opinions are welcomed by me

JustAlex
05-09-2012, 01:08 AM
then i will welcome you here

though it seems we will disagree on just about everything, nonetheless your opinions are welcomed by me

Yours are welcomed by myself as well.

stlcardinalsfan
05-09-2012, 01:20 AM
Dude you can argue til your blue in the face and say what you will but please try and be somewhat respectful in doing so. Also not all Christians hate homosexuality.


exactly, im a christain and i dont mind it,yeah its wrong but everyone chooses to live their life how they want to. and who am i to judge what is wrong and what is right? only god can judge someone.

and to answer the topic question: no.

there is too much of a christain percentage in america,and the ones who are not christain usually tend to lean towards christain based candidates. i cant imagine an atheist president any where inthe near or distant future.

to be honest i think people are against atheist more than homosexuals.

also i have never understood why some athiest go to extreme measures and try to break down every little thing that has to do with christianity thats in the public. with nativity scenes and such. if you dont beleive in it,it shouldnt bother you.....right?

im surprised someone hasnt tried to outlaw the sale of "winter holiday trees" and such assorted holiday decorations and the"christain" christmas holiday................but i guess they like the presents too much to try.ha. :fighting0023:

stlcardinalsfan
05-09-2012, 01:23 AM
also the media portrays the west burrow baptist church (the crazy idiots picketing funerals and such) as christains.

they are not christains,they are a bunch of immoral inconsiderate,hate breeding,ignorat peices or shhhhhhhhhh...... who will burn in hell when they die.

Star_Cards
05-09-2012, 10:57 AM
Pfft....Not all Christians hate homosexuality?

That's a DAMN LIE!

The Bible clearly states that Homosexuality is a sin and God hates ALL sin.

BTW, I'm not being disrespectful, IMO christians get more respect than they deserve.

They are a group that shun, judge, and scare others because their book tells them to.

I don't that all christians hate homosexuality. I also don't fair to speak in absolutes. I actually know some homosexuals who are christians so it's obvious that not all hate gays. Besides that there are heterosexual christians who do not hate gays.

However, I'd say it's pretty safe to say that the majority of christians have an fairly big issue with homosexuality to the extent that they are okay with taking away specific rights from them... namely marriage for various reasons.

JustAlex
05-09-2012, 06:22 PM
I don't that all christians hate homosexuality. I also don't fair to speak in absolutes. I actually know some homosexuals who are christians so it's obvious that not all hate gays. Besides that there are heterosexual christians who do not hate gays.

However, I'd say it's pretty safe to say that the majority of christians have an fairly big issue with homosexuality to the extent that they are okay with taking away specific rights from them... namely marriage for various reasons.

Well, I meant that ALL or at the very least a vast majority of Christians HATE homosexuality (the ACT) and I believe it to the core.

When I was a Christian I went to various churches and whenever the topic of homosexuality came up, you could see the disgusts in the faces of these people.

As for homosexuals that are "christian", I have a hard time believing that one.

It's a contradiction, it's like saying a Jew that wants to restore Palestine.

I guess it's possible, but it has to be a very small percentage, maybe less than 1%.

shrewsbury
05-09-2012, 09:03 PM
again you are assuming that all christians adhere strictly to the bible and some how lost the free will they believe god instilled in them.

and you're right, it has to be a small percentage, atleast that's what people on here are trying to tell me. the christians i know don't care if your gay

bud7562
05-09-2012, 09:17 PM
I could only hope so but I don't think so with the amount of people in the U.S. that believe there is a god helping them what god, thay dont belive in one?????????

MadMan1978
05-09-2012, 10:02 PM
Homosexuals are not a protected class under the Constitution and are not entitled to the same legal rights as married persons. Nevertheless ,I challenge you to tell me what rights they don't have. What other persons do you claim are treated unequally?

The President does not make the laws. He merely sets policy.

Faith and logic are not mutually exclusive. Most of the time, a conclusion reached by the Christian faith has a logical basis as well.

The Bible says we aren't to hate anyone and does not endorse slavery. You are misguided and have a deficient understanding of what the Bible says on those issues.

Slavery has not been a relevant issue in this country for 150 years.

In a number of States they dont have a right to marry!
Or should I say they cannot have a legal marriage.

As well as a number or others rights
In fact in few States are not "certain" acts still illegal?

Star_Cards
05-10-2012, 10:37 AM
Well, I meant that ALL or at the very least a vast majority of Christians HATE homosexuality (the ACT) and I believe it to the core.

When I was a Christian I went to various churches and whenever the topic of homosexuality came up, you could see the disgusts in the faces of these people.

As for homosexuals that are "christian", I have a hard time believing that one.

It's a contradiction, it's like saying a Jew that wants to restore Palestine.

I guess it's possible, but it has to be a very small percentage, maybe less than 1%.

I don;t feel that is true. Saying hate and saying they think it's wrong is different. I know some people that are christian and don't "agree" with homosexuality for whatever personal reason, but I wouldn't say that they hate homosexuals. Like I said, I had a teacher in high school who was out at his church and ran the choir with his partner. I don't think many people hated him at his church considering the turnout they had for his funeral. I do agree that there are a large amount of people who hate gays, but I still wouldn't say that all christians hate gays.

As far as homosexuals who are christian, It's not that far fetched although it does baffle me as well. I guess it just depends on how a specific church reacts to the homosexual that is going there. It's not hard to see why there would be some that go. If they learn about their religion all their life they will have more root in that religion before they get to the point of dealing with their sexuality, which typically starts at puberty or so. Religion is typically passed down from your parents so if you are being taught about a specific religion I can see how it would be hard to leave is you have a deep root. Even if they are against your sexuality there still may be other aspects that still draws them to participate.