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andrewhoya
05-08-2012, 05:26 PM
What do you believe in? I think that our lives are already planned out and that nothing we can do can change it. Since we cannot change it, I believe that religion is far more complicated than most of us think.

DunkingDurant35
05-08-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm with the "both" camp. You are still making decisions every day without a gun to your head, are you not? Even if one considers God knowing what we will do beforehand, it's not like He's dictating to us what we are doing every second. We aren't robots.

andrewhoya
05-08-2012, 07:00 PM
I'm with the "both" camp. You are still making decisions every day without a gun to your head, are you not? Even if one considers God knowing what we will do beforehand, it's not like He's dictating to us what we are doing every second. We aren't robots.

IN my book, every move we already completed was written out already. Even though you think you are making the decision, it was already decided you would do so.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 08:05 PM
I am going to refrain from saying what I really think about your opinion on this andrewhoya because it would get me thrown off the site. With that said, any God that lays down a plan for a child to be raped and murdered is not a God at all. They are a monster. No better than the monster that does thier dirty work.

Edit: and just what would be the purpose or intent of everything already being laid out?

andrewhoya
05-08-2012, 08:07 PM
I am going to refrain from saying what I really think about your opinion on this andrewhoya because it would get me thrown off the site. With that said, any God that lays down a plan for a child to be raped and murdered is not a God at all. They are a monster. No better than the monster that does thier dirty work.

See that's where I believe religion gets way more complicated.

I know this sounds crazy, but what I believe in is that the devil fights with control with the creator gods over power of their human beings. Any evil is done by the devils 'editing the books' that were written for us. It is a never ending battle.

andrewhoya
05-08-2012, 08:08 PM
I am going to refrain from saying what I really think about your opinion on this andrewhoya because it would get me thrown off the site. With that said, any God that lays down a plan for a child to be raped and murdered is not a God at all. They are a monster. No better than the monster that does thier dirty work.

Edit: and just what would be the purpose or intent of everything already being laid out?

As for your edit, for me it is comforting knowing that my life is already planned out. I know my god has chosen my path and I don't need to worry about huge life changing decisions.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 08:09 PM
See that's where I believe religion gets way more complicated.

I know this sounds crazy, but what I believe in is that the devil fights with control with the creator gods over power of their human beings. Any evil is done by the devils 'editing the books' that were written for us. It is a never ending battle.

So you are saying that their is a power out there equal to God? And again, why are these books written for us?

andrewhoya
05-08-2012, 08:12 PM
So you are saying that their is a power out there equal to God? And again, why are these books written for us?

No, if they were equal then there would be just as many murderers on earth as there were innocent people. I don't believe that they have the ability to create humans, just severely mess with them.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 08:12 PM
As for your edit, for me it is comforting knowing that my life is already planned out. I know my god has chosen my path and I don't need to worry about huge life changing decisions.

But your plan has been changed. Think about it. How many people will you meet in your life? If any one of them is wiped out by the "devil's evil doing", the butterfly affect completely screws up your book.

andrewhoya
05-08-2012, 08:14 PM
But your plan has been changed. Think about it. How many people will you meet in your life? If any one of them is wiped out by the "devil's evil doing", the butterfly affect completely screws up your book.

I have an answer for this, I just don't know how to put it into words. Its hard for me to post online. I'm much more comfortable face to face.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 08:14 PM
No, if they were equal then there would be just as many murderers on earth as there were innocent people. I don't believe that they have the ability to create humans, just severely mess with them.

So you do not hold any malice for anyone who commits a heinous crime because afterall, it wasn't their doing.

andrewhoya
05-08-2012, 08:15 PM
So you do not hold any malice for anyone who commits a heinous crime because afterall, it wasn't their doing.

I feel sorry for them as I usually believe they committed an uncontrollable action.

I'm weird, I know.

theonedru
05-08-2012, 09:17 PM
I feel sorry for them as I usually believe they committed an uncontrollable action.

I'm weird, I know.

Your only weird if compared to someone less crazy than you, compared to moi your pretty normal.. trust me on that.

andrewhoya
05-08-2012, 09:23 PM
Your only weird if compared to someone less crazy than you, compared to moi your pretty normal.. trust me on that.

Appreciate it.

MasonRaymond0320
05-08-2012, 09:36 PM
as weird as this might sound..iv always believed that absolutely everything you do..every choice you make has been planned by god..even if you do have control of what you do, i think god knows what your choices will be.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 09:39 PM
So how does your theory of "no free will" affect me? Are you saying that God's plan for me is that I will never believe in Him? How is that fair? It's not my fault I doubt His existence, He made it so.

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 09:41 PM
And why do bad things happen to devil worshippers? The devil wouldn't be knocking off His own followers? And God doesn't plan bad things to happen to people, the devil does that, right?

habsheaven
05-08-2012, 09:43 PM
as weird as this might sound..iv always believed that absolutely everything you do..every choice you make has been planned by god..even if you do have control of what you do, i think god knows what your choices will be.

So you do not believe in the devil screwing all God's plan up?

theonedru
05-08-2012, 10:01 PM
The devil has no real powers except that of persuasion unless they were given crazy awesome Godlike powers by God, which makes zero sense. He was nothing but a fallen angel as such he could only posses the same powers angels have

MadMan1978
05-08-2012, 10:12 PM
a debate on Free Will vs. Determinism...an awesome topic first
I will post once i am NOT so tired

However, Andrew please feel free to google on topic. you will find a number of good essays on this very topic.

theonedru
05-08-2012, 10:22 PM
a debate on Free Will vs. Determinism...an awesome topic first
I will post once i am NOT so tired

However, Andrew please feel free to google on topic. you will find a number of good essays on this very topic.

It's weird in the sense that the Devil, once the right hand of God basically did what he did to be thrown out of heaven ... And who basically took the devils place, Jesus.... I am trying to wrap my head around this but it might take a few days for my brain to absorb it and have it be logical. I am getting old.

duwal
05-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Free will, I think people are foolish to believe that their lives and steps are all planned out by some spiritual being. Why even live if you don't think you're in control of your lives?

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 06:42 AM
as weird as this might sound..iv always believed that absolutely everything you do..every choice you make has been planned by god..even if you do have control of what you do, i think god knows what your choices will be.
Exactly how I feel.

So how does your theory of "no free will" affect me? Are you saying that God's plan for me is that I will never believe in Him? How is that fair? It's not my fault I doubt His existence, He made it so.

I'm polytheistic. I think there is a Christian god, Muslim god, etc, and they all create their 'children', which is why there are so many different religions. If there was only one god, then why would he create different competing religions? Why would he create evil if he had total control over the world? I believe there is also a 'non-believer' 'god' out there who creates, well, non believers.

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 06:44 AM
The devil has no real powers except that of persuasion unless they were given crazy awesome Godlike powers by God, which makes zero sense. He was nothing but a fallen angel as such he could only posses the same powers angels have

That is where I disagree.

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 06:45 AM
a debate on Free Will vs. Determinism...an awesome topic first
I will post once i am NOT so tired

However, Andrew please feel free to google on topic. you will find a number of good essays on this very topic.
I'll check them out when I have some time. Thanks.

Free will, I think people are foolish to believe that their lives and steps are all planned out by some spiritual being. Why even live if you don't think you're in control of your lives?

Because I love live and everything that happens in it.

MadMan1978
05-09-2012, 08:23 AM
as weird as this might sound..iv always believed that absolutely everything you do..every choice you make has been planned by god..even if you do have control of what you do, i think god knows what your choices will be.


This is a full contradiction of thought really. Free will and determinism are not compatible in the least.

hawk2618
05-09-2012, 08:35 AM
So how does your theory of "no free will" affect me? Are you saying that God's plan for me is that I will never believe in Him? How is that fair? It's not my fault I doubt His existence, He made it so.

This is kinda hard to explain,but I'll try.I believe every person born is born into this world with desires and beliefs broke down in percentages.
I also believe our life is planned out for us like Andrew posted earlier.Maybe God created you with only 40% desire to believe in him and you chose the 60% not to believe,I don't know.Also...how do we all know that our choices in life aren't tests that he has laid out for us and He already knows which choice we will make?? In real life...some tests are hard,some are easy right? I think our lives are one big test that we have to live out and do the best we can.
~~Dave C.

Star_Cards
05-09-2012, 08:41 AM
I absolutely agree in complete free will. I have the choice to right now to do most anything I please. I don't get the position of having our lives mapped out by a god. If our lives are mapped out like stories, with the people who have horrible lives and have horrible things done to them, the God who mapped these lives out is completely sick.

Besides, if our lives where mapped out, wouldn't you think God would have mapped everyone's lives so that we follow his "rules". Also, if our lives are mapped out, then why are there things considered sins. Wouldn't god map out lives where people just didn't sin. Why make them sin and not all be perfect examples of how to live under Gods rule? That alone make me wonder why anyone would think our lives are planned out.

Star_Cards
05-09-2012, 08:43 AM
So how does your theory of "no free will" affect me? Are you saying that God's plan for me is that I will never believe in Him? How is that fair? It's not my fault I doubt His existence, He made it so.

great point. did god plan for me to not believe in him?

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 06:30 PM
great point. did god plan for me to not believe in him?

I believe that there is a 'un-believer' creator.

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 06:30 PM
This is kinda hard to explain,but I'll try.I believe every person born is born into this world with desires and beliefs broke down in percentages.
I also believe our life is planned out for us like Andrew posted earlier.Maybe God created you with only 40% desire to believe in him and you chose the 60% not to believe,I don't know.Also...how do we all know that our choices in life aren't tests that he has laid out for us and He already knows which choice we will make?? In real life...some tests are hard,some are easy right? I think our lives are one big test that we have to live out and do the best we can.
~~Dave C.

You explained that perfectly.

habsheaven
05-09-2012, 07:51 PM
Okay, so let me get this straight. Now there is a Christian God, a Muslim God, a Hindu God, an Atheist Creator and a Devil. All the Gods/creators have a game plan and the Devil runs around screwing with ALL of them. No one on Earth has to be accountable for anything, because no matter what happens it was either a) part of the plan, or b) caused by the Devil.

Can we just end this thread and start one about who would win in a fight between The Hulk and Superman? I mean really, do you hear yourselves?

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 07:54 PM
Okay, so let me get this straight. Now there is a Christian God, a Muslim God, a Hindu God, an Atheist Creator and a Devil. All the Gods/creators have a game plan and the Devil runs around screwing with ALL of them. No one on Earth has to be accountable for anything, because no matter what happens it was either a) part of the plan, or b) caused by the Devil.
Hasn't there always been a Muslim God, Hindu God, etc? Isn't that who millions of people worship? As for being accountable, your plan has already been written, so you dont have any control over what happens.


Can we just end this thread and start one about who would win in a fight between The Hulk and Superman? I mean really, do you hear yourselves?
Sure, go ahead. It's what I believe in and am sticking to it. I dont care how crazy it sounds, I know it is crazy, but it is what I believe in. I don't expect anyone else to believe the same thing I believe in, and that is what is great about it.

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 08:01 PM
I just had so many questions that nobody had answers to. It was just easier for me to 'create my own religion'.

habsheaven
05-09-2012, 08:09 PM
I was under the impression that all religions worshipped the same God. If there already was one for each religion it is news to me.

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 08:17 PM
I was under the impression that all religions worshipped the same God. If there already was one for each religion it is news to me.

I do not believe that everyone worships the same god as they apparently all 'ordered' different things.

habsheaven
05-09-2012, 08:26 PM
Okay, well back to the thread topic. So you do not hold yourself accountable for anything you do? Hypothetically, you could kill the next person you see, or rob the corner store, or even strike your own mother and then claim it's not your fault. It was part of God's plan.

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 08:43 PM
Okay, well back to the thread topic. So you do not hold yourself accountable for anything you do? Hypothetically, you could kill the next person you see, or rob the corner store, or even strike your own mother and then claim it's not your fault. It was part of God's plan.

Well, I hope something like that is not coded in my book. I never said it wouldn't be my fault, but god would help me move on and probably have my face the consequences.

Plus, sometimes like that would be the devil's doing, not gods.

habsheaven
05-09-2012, 09:15 PM
Well, I hope something like that is not coded in my book. I never said it wouldn't be my fault, but god would help me move on and probably have my face the consequences.

Plus, sometimes like that would be the devil's doing, not gods.

Not so fast. Maybe God's plan has you serving time so that you can do some good while in the pen. Perhaps His plan has you ministering your beliefs to fellow inmates.

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 09:16 PM
Not so fast. Maybe God's plan has you serving time so that you can do some good while in the pen. Perhaps His plan has you ministering your beliefs to fellow inmates.

Maybe so. I guess only the future will tell.

andrewhoya
05-09-2012, 09:17 PM
Or, it could be God making up for the Devils actions.

MadMan1978
05-09-2012, 09:48 PM
for the three people who vote No Free Will- care to share your reasons? I am highly interested to hear your opinions.

theonedru
05-09-2012, 10:20 PM
I want to know how you can vote both, its either or, there is no middle ground

hawk2618
05-09-2012, 10:45 PM
Not so fast. Maybe God's plan has you serving time so that you can do some good while in the pen. Perhaps His plan has you ministering your beliefs to fellow inmates.


I know you're being sarcastic,but that actually is the most sensable thing I've seen you type in awhile:loco:

MadMan1978
05-10-2012, 05:26 AM
I want to know how you can vote both, its either or, there is no middle ground
Actually that is the exact thoughts of Buddhist

they believe in both or in the middle as you state

andrewhoya
05-10-2012, 06:04 AM
for the three people who vote No Free Will- care to share your reasons? I am highly interested to hear your opinions.

Well I was one of them, and I've been explaining for 45 posts.

andrewhoya
05-10-2012, 06:17 AM
I want to know how you can vote both, its either or, there is no middle ground

I know some people think you make the big decisions and god makes the small ones, or vice versa.

habsheaven
05-10-2012, 07:48 AM
I know you're being sarcastic,but that actually is the most sensable thing I've seen you type in awhile:loco:

Actually, I was seriously trying to defend the Devil. If you have a belief that God has everything planned out ahead of time you have to allow for the possibility that God has planned out some bad stuff along the way. You can't blame everything bad on the Devil (I take that back, if you have a belief like this, I guess you can divide up the blame however you like and it will make sense to you).

Star_Cards
05-10-2012, 08:51 AM
I believe that there is a 'un-believer' creator.

what do you mean exactly? a separate creator for non believers?

Star_Cards
05-10-2012, 08:53 AM
Okay, well back to the thread topic. So you do not hold yourself accountable for anything you do? Hypothetically, you could kill the next person you see, or rob the corner store, or even strike your own mother and then claim it's not your fault. It was part of God's plan.

this is the biggest issue that I have with people who think they are simply living what god planned out for them. This is mainly why I can't comprehend why people would think this.

habsheaven
05-10-2012, 09:07 AM
this is the biggest issue that I have with people who think they are simply living what god planned out for them. This is mainly why I can't comprehend why people would think this.

Can you imagine living in a society that thought like this? A handful of people thinking this is scary enough, imagine a society full of them. Makes you shudder.

Star_Cards
05-10-2012, 09:22 AM
Can you imagine living in a society that thought like this? A handful of people thinking this is scary enough, imagine a society full of them. Makes you shudder.

It's odd. If a person thinks god plans our lives out 100% then what right does a person have to say what a horrible person a molester or murderer is? Aren't they just doing what god wrote for them to do? I guess they could say that god wrote for them to also be hated and punished by their fellow humans. If that's the case then God is just a sick individual in my opinion.

habsheaven
05-10-2012, 09:32 AM
I don't think there is any doubt about it. If there is a God with the abilities that believers say He has, then He is a twisted entity for sure.

hawk2618
05-10-2012, 12:02 PM
Okay, well back to the thread topic. So you do not hold yourself accountable for anything you do? Hypothetically, you could kill the next person you see, or rob the corner store, or even strike your own mother and then claim it's not your fault. It was part of God's plan.

Of course you hold yourself accountable for what you do.Just because this was a choice/path he laid down for you doesn't mean it has to be acted upon.Do you know how many people I think I COULD kill???
Trust me....you don't want to know.But it's MY choice not to act upon it because I was strong enough to know the RIGHT choice.Just because someone slaps their mother or robs the nearest liqour store doesn't mean that God WANTED/PLANNED that.Everyones life is like a map.Those people were simply tempted and made the wrong choice. ~~Dave C.

*censored*
05-10-2012, 12:11 PM
But if there's no such thing as free will, how can you have the choice of NOT acting upon the plan?

habsheaven
05-10-2012, 12:24 PM
Of course you hold yourself accountable for what you do.Just because this was a choice/path he laid down for you doesn't mean it has to be acted upon.Do you know how many people I think I COULD kill???
Trust me....you don't want to know.But it's MY choice not to act upon it because I was strong enough to know the RIGHT choice.Just because someone slaps their mother or robs the nearest liqour store doesn't mean that God WANTED/PLANNED that.Everyones life is like a map.Those people were simply tempted and made the wrong choice. ~~Dave C.

Of course it does. If you believe what andrewhoya believes that there is no free will, you cannot not follow that path. Any choice you make, God either planned for you to make, or the Devil coerced you into making a different choice. That is the point of the thread! according to andrewhoya.

Star_Cards
05-10-2012, 12:30 PM
Of course you hold yourself accountable for what you do.Just because this was a choice/path he laid down for you doesn't mean it has to be acted upon.Do you know how many people I think I COULD kill???
Trust me....you don't want to know.But it's MY choice not to act upon it because I was strong enough to know the RIGHT choice.Just because someone slaps their mother or robs the nearest liqour store doesn't mean that God WANTED/PLANNED that.Everyones life is like a map.Those people were simply tempted and made the wrong choice. ~~Dave C.

I'm lost. If your life is completely mapped out then god would have mapped for murders to murder and they had no way to avoid being a murderer. If they were able to choose not to murder then you have free will and not going off of God's script for your life.

Star_Cards
05-10-2012, 12:32 PM
Of course it does. If you believe what andrewhoya believes that there is no free will, you cannot not follow that path. Any choice you make, God either planned for you to make, or the Devil coerced you into making a different choice. That is the point of the thread! according to andrewhoya.

I'll even go as far to say that if you believe there is no free will then even the devil wouldn't be able to talk you into doing something that god hadn't planned.

hawk2618
05-10-2012, 12:58 PM
First off...free will and choice are 2 different things. Just because you have 2 choices doesn't mean you don't have the free will to choose it.Here's an example(even though I posted a few already)At this very moment....
I have the free will to type a swear,but VOILA!!!!....I dont...why????? Because I had a my own free will to make that choice of NO or YES. God planned that decision for me...and I acted upon it in the right way.
When we say God planned our whole lives.....what we are saying is as he created us with every conceivable temptation....it is our free will to make the right choice.
~~Dave C.

habsheaven
05-10-2012, 01:06 PM
First off...free will and choice are 2 different things. Just because you have 2 choices doesn't mean you don't have the free will to choose it.Here's an example(even though I posted a few already)At this very moment....
I have the free will to type a swear,but VOILA!!!!....I dont...why????? Because I had a my own free will to make that choice of NO or YES. God planned that decision for me...and I acted upon it in the right way.
When we say God planned our whole lives.....what we are saying is as he created us with every conceivable temptation....it is our free will to make the right choice.
~~Dave C.

I'm not sure what part of NO FREE WILL you do not understand. Andrewhoya's belief is that you DO NOT HAVE FREE WILL, therefore you cannot make a choice (you may think you are making a choice but in fact God has already planned out what you are going to do).

Ughh!!! Why am I explaining andrewhoya's position for him??? He has made it abundantly clear what his position is. Some people just like to argue against my posts with no regard to what I am commenting on. smh

Star_Cards
05-10-2012, 01:24 PM
First off...free will and choice are 2 different things. Just because you have 2 choices doesn't mean you don't have the free will to choose it.Here's an example(even though I posted a few already)At this very moment....
I have the free will to type a swear,but VOILA!!!!....I dont...why????? Because I had a my own free will to make that choice of NO or YES. God planned that decision for me...and I acted upon it in the right way.
When we say God planned our whole lives.....what we are saying is as he created us with every conceivable temptation....it is our free will to make the right choice.
~~Dave C.

Then you believe something different than Andrewhoya. We are talking about people believing there is no free will and whatever you do is what god planned for you to do.

andrewhoya
05-10-2012, 04:28 PM
Actually, I was seriously trying to defend the Devil. If you have a belief that God has everything planned out ahead of time you have to allow for the possibility that God has planned out some bad stuff along the way. You can't blame everything bad on the Devil (I take that back, if you have a belief like this, I guess you can divide up the blame however you like and it will make sense to you).
Every religion, except for those of Ancient Greece and Sumer, have had Gods that are loving and would never hurt their creations. Therefore, I believe all bad comes from the devil.

what do you mean exactly? a separate creator for non believers?
Yep. Why would a god create somebody that doesn't believe in them?

this is the biggest issue that I have with people who think they are simply living what god planned out for them. This is mainly why I can't comprehend why people would think this.
Its hard for me to understand and explain, too.

Can you imagine living in a society that thought like this? A handful of people thinking this is scary enough, imagine a society full of them. Makes you shudder.
That would be a bad society to live in.

andrewhoya
05-10-2012, 04:29 PM
It's odd. If a person thinks god plans our lives out 100% then what right does a person have to say what a horrible person a molester or murderer is? Aren't they just doing what god wrote for them to do? I guess they could say that god wrote for them to also be hated and punished by their fellow humans. If that's the case then God is just a sick individual in my opinion.

Not in my mind. The evil comes from the Devil. He chooses on who he feeds on and who he doesn't.

andrewhoya
05-10-2012, 04:31 PM
But if there's no such thing as free will, how can you have the choice of NOT acting upon the plan?
You aren't given the choice, I guess.

I'll even go as far to say that if you believe there is no free will then even the devil wouldn't be able to talk you into doing something that god hadn't planned.
He doesn't talk you into it. He messes with your 'book'.

Then you believe something different than Andrewhoya. We are talking about people believing there is no free will and whatever you do is what god planned for you to do.
Yep, we are similar, I think, but have many differences.

hawk2618
05-11-2012, 06:25 PM
I'm lost. If your life is completely mapped out then god would have mapped for murders to murder and they had no way to avoid being a murderer. If they were able to choose not to murder then you have free will and not going off of God's script for your life.

In life ,there are 2 choices.There's good and bad.
What a path being set is,God knows the EXACT path you will take,whether its good or bad.Now to your point.I don't think a murderer thinks of murdering just on a whim one day.He/She doesn't wake up one morning and say...."I think I'm going to murder someone today".A murder or any evil act for that matter,is constantly built upon by small bad choices continually being chose throughout ones life..and steamrolls.
Can a murderer avoid doing a murder?? Sure,if he/she doesn't reach that point in their lives.Lastly we have to remember this...EVERY sin is suppose to be forgivable..even murder!

*censored*
05-11-2012, 11:32 PM
EVERY sin is suppose to be forgivable..even murder!

And that's my problem (one of many, but the main one) with Christianity, or at least most Protestant sects. It doesn't matter what kind of person you are, you just have to accept that Jesus paid for your sins, and you're home free. You can lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, and kill, but as long as you accept that Jesus died for your sins, you're going to Heaven.

Justification by faith alone is a load of crap and is taking the easy way out.

andrewhoya
05-12-2012, 02:34 PM
And that's my problem (one of many, but the main one) with Christianity, or at least most Protestant sects. It doesn't matter what kind of person you are, you just have to accept that Jesus paid for your sins, and you're home free. You can lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, and kill, but as long as you accept that Jesus died for your sins, you're going to Heaven.

Justification by faith alone is a load of crap and is taking the easy way out.

It is a question I have too. If it is a deadly sin then why is it forgivable?

That's what led me to think that if it is forgivable then it must not have been you in the first place.

tpeichel
05-13-2012, 02:12 PM
I am a Christian and find no compelling evidence that God is in control of everything on earth. Just look around. It makes absolutely no sense that God would be orchestrating all of the evil acts throughout the world as part of a grand plan.

Was it really his plan all along to wipe out the entire population with the flood or was he surprised at the extent of the evil in the world so he wanted to start over with Noah?

stlcardinalsfan
05-13-2012, 02:49 PM
i am a christain,but here latley im beginning to beleive that everything is planned out, it does say god knows all right?..........so that means he already knows whats going to happen to any given person...its already planned out. thats why some times life will be going horribly and some times its perfect,god likes to play with people.

andrewhoya
05-13-2012, 02:50 PM
i am a christain,but here latley im beginning to beleive that everything is planned out, it does say god knows all right?..........so that means he already knows whats going to happen to any given person...its already planned out. thats why some times life will be going horribly and some times its perfect,god likes to play with people.

Good point.

tpeichel
05-13-2012, 05:39 PM
i am a christain,but here latley im beginning to beleive that everything is planned out, it does say god knows all right?..........so that means he already knows whats going to happen to any given person...its already planned out. thats why some times life will be going horribly and some times its perfect,god likes to play with people.

If God knows all, how come he didn't know exactly what was going in Sodom and how many righteous people were in the city?

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2018&version=NIV#fen-NIV-447d)] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2018&version=NIV#fen-NIV-449e)] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing —to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake. ”
27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”
“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”
29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”
He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”
He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”
He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”
32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”
He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

andrewhoya
05-13-2012, 05:42 PM
If God knows all, how come he didn't know exactly what was going in Sodom and how many righteous people were in the city?

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2018&version=NIV#fen-NIV-447d)] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2018&version=NIV#fen-NIV-449e)] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing —to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake. ”
27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”
“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”
29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”
He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”
He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”
He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”
32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”
He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

I believe that he did indeed know.

stlcardinalsfan
05-13-2012, 06:03 PM
I believe that he did indeed know.


exactly he knew so he destroyed it and turned lots wife into a pillar of salt

hawk2618
05-13-2012, 06:59 PM
I also believe he knew.Many people always tried to twist words and trick Jesus,But he never fell for one trick,not one single one.

TheTGB
05-13-2012, 07:54 PM
It's funny that I don't consider myself Buddhist, however, most of my personal beliefs which I thought were of my own self-creation are actually Buddhist in nature.

I voted for both. (As was stated, tends to be a Buddhist belief)

I believe that a path is laid out for you, however, you have the free will to deviate from that path by your own decisions.

Which now that I think about it, sounds kinda Buddhist...

habsheaven
05-13-2012, 11:13 PM
If God has a plan for everyone then one of two things must also be true:

1) God is sadistic in nature and plans some very bad things for a lot of good people,

or

2) There is another entity (devil) in the Cosmos and he is just as powerful as God.

Take your pick.

stlcardinalsfan
05-14-2012, 12:17 AM
If God has a plan for everyone then one of two things must also be true:

1) God is sadistic in nature and plans some very bad things for a lot of good people,

or

2) There is another entity (devil) in the Cosmos and he is just as powerful as God.

Take your pick.

1) read the story about job,god allows the devil to rip apart job's life. takes everythign he owns,his family, makes him sick and full of diseases just so that he will wont turn his back on god.

god is very jealous imo

2) he is as strong

habsheaven
05-14-2012, 08:01 AM
1) read the story about job,god allows the devil to rip apart job's life. takes everythign he owns,his family, makes him sick and full of diseases just so that he will wont turn his back on god.

god is very jealous imo

2) he is as strong

Thanks for the suggestion but I do not have to read stories from the Bible to base my opinions on. Everyday news stories paint a clear enough picture. It appears that you believe BOTH of my statements to be true. If so, it's no wonder the world is how it is, if this is who we have to look up to.