PDA

View Full Version : Obama keeps promise on coal



AUTaxMan
05-22-2012, 05:14 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/22/obamas-war-on-coal-hits-your-electric-bill/print#ixzz1vdALNXOI

Can't wait to have to dip into my savings to pay the power bill. :frusty:

shrewsbury
05-22-2012, 06:05 PM
and people want another four years of this?

theonedru
05-22-2012, 08:14 PM
Why are we even still using a dirty ancient non renewable resource like coal for power anyways, what are we cavemen...

MadMan1978
05-22-2012, 08:36 PM
I Wont even waste my time to read the story due to the source....

JustAlex
05-22-2012, 09:18 PM
I Wont even waste my time to read the story due to the source....

My exact thoughts....

But I know someone will counter with some type of argument that all media is biased and blah, blah, blah.

Point is that we all know what Faux News is all about.

AUTaxMan
05-22-2012, 09:20 PM
Why are we even still using a dirty ancient non renewable resource like coal for power anyways, what are we cavemen...

Because it's MUCH more efficient than any other viable alternative.

AUTaxMan
05-22-2012, 09:24 PM
My exact thoughts....

But I know someone will counter with some type of argument that all media is biased and blah, blah, blah.

Point is that we all know what Faux News is all about.

No, the counter argument is that while you may not agree with everything on fox, they do print news stories containing facts. This is an opinion piece, but it is loaded with verifiable facts about the state of the coal-fired electrical industry in our country. Or you could just stick your head in the sand and act like Obama isn't doing his best to bankrupt the fossil fuel industry to everyone's detriment (except his cronies in the green energy industry).

theonedru
05-22-2012, 10:51 PM
Because it's MUCH more efficient than any other viable alternative.

Thats what they lead people to believe, just like they say nuclear energy is clean and safe......

ensbergcollector
05-22-2012, 10:56 PM
i love how people knock fox news and yet never seem to have a problem with huffington post, islamaphobia, or a random blog. come on guys. feel free to say that fox is biased, i honestly could care less. but you can't even pretend that fox is worse than half the junk that gets sourced on here.

JustAlex
05-22-2012, 11:17 PM
No, the counter argument is that while you may not agree with everything on fox, they do print news stories containing facts. This is an opinion piece, but it is loaded with verifiable facts about the state of the coal-fired electrical industry in our country. Or you could just stick your head in the sand and act like Obama isn't doing his best to bankrupt the fossil fuel industry to everyone's detriment (except his cronies in the green energy industry).

Um....I don't agree with Faux on anything....period!

I can go as far as saying that most if not ALL news sources have some bias to them....

However, no one has perfected the art of spin, bias, and flat out LYING as Fox News.

I've been on so many arguments about them that I simply won't bother this time.

I won't be discussing on this subject because I'm not going to bother reading a story from those people.

AUTaxMan
05-22-2012, 11:21 PM
Um....I don't agree with Faux on anything....period!

I can go as far as saying that most if not ALL news sources have some bias to them....

However, no one has perfected the art of spin, bias, and flat out LYING as Fox News.

I've been on so many arguments about them that I simply won't bother this time.

I won't be discussing on this subject because I'm not going to bother reading a story from those people.

That's fine. You don't really bring anything of substance to the discussion anyway.

JustAlex
05-22-2012, 11:26 PM
That's fine. You don't really bring anything of substance to the discussion anyway.

Except facts and evidence when it comes to science discussions....

And well thought out opinions when it comes to social issue discussions...


But whatever, go ahead and keep on bashing Obama, the funny part is that I'm NOT one of his defenders.

Although he still better than Mitt (LOL) Romney.

Have fun with this discussion without me :p:

tpeichel
05-23-2012, 06:52 AM
Thats what they lead people to believe, just like they say nuclear energy is clean and safe......

What energy source would you say is more efficient than coal?

Star_Cards
05-23-2012, 08:19 AM
Why is everything these days A War on something???

Is it me or did the article not really go into detail about what environmental controls have been put into place other than just naming the title of the rule? I haven't look into the Utility MACT rule very much, but seems like it's a rule that requires coal and oil-fired power plants to reduce emissions of mercury, other metallic toxics, acid gases, and organic air toxics.

Now, I don't know if the increased regulations are actually effecting the air quality, but at some point air quality is an important issues as much as energy costs. In my opinion cost can't be the only factor in whether or not we get cleaner in our energy usage or not.

AUTaxMan
05-23-2012, 08:37 AM
Why is everything these days A War on something???

Is it me or did the article not really go into detail about what environmental controls have been put into place other than just naming the title of the rule? I haven't look into the Utility MACT rule very much, but seems like it's a rule that requires coal and oil-fired power plants to reduce emissions of mercury, other metallic toxics, acid gases, and organic air toxics.

Now, I don't know if the increased regulations are actually effecting the air quality, but at some point air quality is an important issues as much as energy costs. In my opinion cost can't be the only factor in whether or not we get cleaner in our energy usage or not.

The basic lay of the land is that there was nothing wrong with emission standards before the new regulations went into effect. Companies were already required to keep substance emissions at levels so low that they were rendered completely harmless. Now, they are required to implement new measures to make them even more completely harmless. A preposterous notion that is so transparent among the energy industry that it is obvious that their only real purpose is to drive up costs.

pghin08
05-23-2012, 09:01 AM
Why is everything these days A War on something???

Is it me or did the article not really go into detail about what environmental controls have been put into place other than just naming the title of the rule? I haven't look into the Utility MACT rule very much, but seems like it's a rule that requires coal and oil-fired power plants to reduce emissions of mercury, other metallic toxics, acid gases, and organic air toxics.

Now, I don't know if the increased regulations are actually effecting the air quality, but at some point air quality is an important issues as much as energy costs. In my opinion cost can't be the only factor in whether or not we get cleaner in our energy usage or not.

You really need to stop making so much sense.

AUTaxMan
05-23-2012, 09:37 AM
The biggest problem of course is that CO2 emissions have to be substantially reduced, which is virtually impossible if you are burning coal. And to what end? Saving the world from global warming, which is highly debated at best and junk science at worst, since we don't even know how much effect man-made CO2 emissions have on global warming or that if we eliminated all of our CO2 emissions that it would even matter at the rate China and India are going.

duane1969
05-23-2012, 10:09 AM
I didn't spend any time reading articles, I don't need to. People in my community are living it. Obama and his EPA are enacting restrictions and limitations that are killing the #1 industry in our state. 33,000 miners are now aware that their jobs are going to go away. The truck drivers, railways, shipping companies, coal distributors, and everyone else who has a job that depends on the coal industry are also aware that they will be handed a pink slip at some point. Some are estimating 60-80,000 jobs could be lost and an unemployment rate in excess of 30% is plausible if everything that Obama wants goes through.

In addition, every other facet of our state is going to suffer. Without the tax base our schools will no longer be able to employ as many teachers, our public service departments will no longer be able to pay employees, our businesses will not be able to stay open with nobody to buy anything. Without these things people will begin moving away. This can already be seen in McDowell county where $200,000 homes sit empty, reposessed by the bank and unsold because nobody in the county can afford them. The county school system has nearly 20 unfilled teaching positions because nobody will live there and fill them. If you are driving into the county you better make sure you have a full tank because 40 miles between gas stations is common and it is along lonely walk between them.

As a side effect of all of this, Obama's policies on coal are helping other countries improve their economy. With the knowledge that Obama has a goal of killing the coal industry, mine owners are getting out. Several coal mines in West Virginia have already been sold. A Russian company is buying them up for a cheap price and closing them. Why? Because coal in Russia is a big industry, if no coal is produced by our mines then their coal becomes more valuable. So Obama's coal policies are single-handedly turning Russians into wealthy people and pushing American's into poverty. Yup, he is a man of the people, just not West Virginian people.

And the cold hard fact is this. Obama doesn't care. West Virginians are irrelevant to him. He could turn our state into a version of a 3rd world country and not blink an eye. We don't matter to him. He ignored us in the 2008 primary and never visited here one time. He ignored us in the 2008 general election and never visited here one time. To my knowledge, he still hasn't visited our state.

In the grand scheme of things our vote doesn't matter to him. The electoral colege makes us a moot point in all but the closest of races. But one thing I do know is this, Obama will lose WV by a landslide this coming election. Even hardline liberals and life-long Democrats are saying "Anybody but Obama". I predict that this coming election may be the most lopsided presidential vote in the history of our state. To see how the people here feel about him one needs to look no further than our state's primary where over 40% of Democrats voted for a Texas prisoner rather than Obama. We love him just as much as he loves us.

MadMan1978
05-23-2012, 10:56 AM
Because it's MUCH more efficient than any other viable alternative.
Compared to what?

Star_Cards
05-23-2012, 11:09 AM
The basic lay of the land is that there was nothing wrong with emission standards before the new regulations went into effect. Companies were already required to keep substance emissions at levels so low that they were rendered completely harmless. Now, they are required to implement new measures to make them even more completely harmless. A preposterous notion that is so transparent among the energy industry that it is obvious that their only real purpose is to drive up costs.

I can't really comment on the levels of cleaner air that would be gained by this as I haven't looked at any data and this is really the first thing that I've heard of this Act. I also have no knowledge on emissions before this act being completely harmless.

AUTaxMan
05-23-2012, 11:31 AM
Compared to what?

Solar, wind, "green," etc. Nuclear is, of course, the most efficient, but the environmental left would never allow us to rely on nuclear.

AUTaxMan
05-23-2012, 11:48 AM
I can't really comment on the levels of cleaner air that would be gained by this as I haven't looked at any data and this is really the first thing that I've heard of this Act. I also have no knowledge on emissions before this act being completely harmless.

Again, the overwhelming majority of the costs associated with the new standards are related to CO2 emissions. You won't find any studies out there establishing that the new standards in fact make anyone safer because they don't.

theonedru
05-23-2012, 01:17 PM
Solar, wind, "green," etc. Nuclear is, of course, the most efficient, but the environmental left would never allow us to rely on nuclear.

I have no problem with nuclear reactors per say, just where they are placed, like far away from major fault line,earthquake, tsunami prone areas , ect to ensure accidents are kept to a minimum. And that they find a better way to handle the waste. Thats just common sense.

boba
05-23-2012, 02:01 PM
I have no problem with nuclear reactors per say, just where they are placed, like far away from major fault line,earthquake, tsunami prone areas , ect to ensure accidents are kept to a minimum. And that they find a better way to handle the waste. Thats just common sense.

Reuse it? Oh wait, government won't let us do that.

INTIMADATOR2007
05-23-2012, 10:47 PM
I didn't spend any time reading articles, I don't need to. People in my community are living it. Obama and his EPA are enacting restrictions and limitations that are killing the #1 industry in our state. 33,000 miners are now aware that their jobs are going to go away. The truck drivers, railways, shipping companies, coal distributors, and everyone else who has a job that depends on the coal industry are also aware that they will be handed a pink slip at some point. Some are estimating 60-80,000 jobs could be lost and an unemployment rate in excess of 30% is plausible if everything that Obama wants goes through.

In addition, every other facet of our state is going to suffer. Without the tax base our schools will no longer be able to employ as many teachers, our public service departments will no longer be able to pay employees, our businesses will not be able to stay open with nobody to buy anything. Without these things people will begin moving away. This can already be seen in McDowell county where $200,000 homes sit empty, reposessed by the bank and unsold because nobody in the county can afford them. The county school system has nearly 20 unfilled teaching positions because nobody will live there and fill them. If you are driving into the county you better make sure you have a full tank because 40 miles between gas stations is common and it is along lonely walk between them.

As a side effect of all of this, Obama's policies on coal are helping other countries improve their economy. With the knowledge that Obama has a goal of killing the coal industry, mine owners are getting out. Several coal mines in West Virginia have already been sold. A Russian company is buying them up for a cheap price and closing them. Why? Because coal in Russia is a big industry, if no coal is produced by our mines then their coal becomes more valuable. So Obama's coal policies are single-handedly turning Russians into wealthy people and pushing American's into poverty. Yup, he is a man of the people, just not West Virginian people.

And the cold hard fact is this. Obama doesn't care. West Virginians are irrelevant to him. He could turn our state into a version of a 3rd world country and not blink an eye. We don't matter to him. He ignored us in the 2008 primary and never visited here one time. He ignored us in the 2008 general election and never visited here one time. To my knowledge, he still hasn't visited our state.

In the grand scheme of things our vote doesn't matter to him. The electoral colege makes us a moot point in all but the closest of races. But one thing I do know is this, Obama will lose WV by a landslide this coming election. Even hardline liberals and life-long Democrats are saying "Anybody but Obama". I predict that this coming election may be the most lopsided presidential vote in the history of our state. To see how the people here feel about him one needs to look no further than our state's primary where over 40% of Democrats voted for a Texas prisoner rather than Obama. We love him just as much as he loves us.
Well said , Although not only will it be the most lopsided election in your state but i say in the country . I cant see how it can be even close , Romney in a land slide !

AUTaxMan
05-23-2012, 11:36 PM
Well said , Although not only will it be the most lopsided election in your state but i say in the country . I cant see how it can be even close , Romney in a land slide !

Undecided almost beat Obama in Kentucky last night.