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View Full Version : Kansas governor signs bill banning Islamic law



pwaldo
06-06-2012, 07:02 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/kansas-governor-signs-bill-effectively-banning-islamic-law-234840632.html;_ylt=AtvFxxJqvxNHga3adJZNb.n99XQA;_ ylu=X3oDMTUwcTEzYzhhBGNjb2RlA2N0LmMEbWl0A0FydGljbG UgTW9zdCBQb3B1bGFyBHBrZwM5YTVmZjEyMi03YWYwLTM2OWQt ODEzMy0xNDE2MmEyZWFlODgEcG9zAzUEc2VjA01lZGlhQkxpc3 RNaXhlZE1vc3RQb3B1bGFyQ0FUZW1wBHZlcgNhODk1N2ZjMC1h NmNhLTExZTEtOWE1Zi00YTg1ZDkwMmUzYWM-;_ylg=X3oDMTJuYmJuOXBkBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDMzg4OGQxNDgtNmQwOS0zM2Y1LWEyZjktOGZmYzU1Mj U2ZThjBHBzdGNhdANUZWNoBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQ--;_ylv=3


Republican Kansas Governor Sam Brownback signed a bill aimed at keeping state courts and agencies from using Islamic or other non-U.S. laws when making decisions, his office said on Friday, drawing criticism from a national Muslim group.

The law has been dubbed the "sharia bill" because critics say it targets the Islamic legal code. Sharia, or Islamic law, covers all aspects of Muslim life, including religious obligations and financial dealings. Opponents of state bans say they could nullify wills or legal contracts between Muslims.

Supporters said the law will reassure foreigners in Kansas that state laws and the U.S. Constitution would protect them. Opponents said it singled out Muslims for ridicule and was unnecessary because American laws prevail on U.S. soil.

Sherriene Jones-Sontag, a spokeswoman for the governor, said in an e-mail that the bill "makes it clear that Kansas courts will rely exclusively on the laws of our state and our nation when deciding cases and will not consider the laws of foreign jurisdictions."

Legislators supporting the bill said there were many cases around the country where judges or state agencies cited sharia law in deciding cases, especially involving divorce-related custody and property matters where Islamic code differs from U.S. law.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington denounced the Kansas law and said it is considering legal action.

About 20 states have considered similar legislation but the Kansas law is the only one signed in recent weeks, council spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said.

pghin08
06-06-2012, 08:04 PM
I don't understand the pertinence of this law.

MadMan1978
06-06-2012, 09:11 PM
This is an attempt at outlawing Muslin religion all together really. If you attack the structure in my opinion your attacking the religion. Seems to me this would be unconstitutional ay best.

Should be interesting

theonedru
06-06-2012, 09:43 PM
They should all be fired for wasting so much of the taxpayers $ passing such a redundant bill.

JustAlex
06-06-2012, 09:49 PM
I'm going to propose a bill banning ALL Christian law from my state.

It's only fair....

shrewsbury
06-06-2012, 09:53 PM
wooooo

this is stopping people from using the grounds of religion to beat the laws of our country.

this is no attack on religion. if you want to see that, just look at the pictures, statues, and other works removed from federal and state buildings

and do any of you know about sharia law?

does this fit in any of your ideas of laws?

sharia law is very discriminating in many ways, i for one am against it. any law that includes discrimination of women and homosexuals is not for me.

pghin08
06-07-2012, 09:06 AM
wooooo

this is stopping people from using the grounds of religion to beat the laws of our country.

this is no attack on religion. if you want to see that, just look at the pictures, statues, and other works removed from federal and state buildings

and do any of you know about sharia law?

does this fit in any of your ideas of laws?

sharia law is very discriminating in many ways, i for one am against it. any law that includes discrimination of women and homosexuals is not for me.

I know all about sharia law, but I just don't understand the bill. I don't think state agencies in Kansas use sharia law. That's like trying to ban people from driving while wearing an ice cream cone as a hat; nobody does it, so why even make the law?

shrewsbury
06-07-2012, 09:20 AM
no, but this is an uprising and we need to get some laws in place to stop it from influencing our laws

pghin08
06-07-2012, 10:05 AM
no, but this is an uprising and we need to get some laws in place to stop it from influencing our laws

I dunno, I don't think there's a radical Muslim uprising here in the US.

mrveggieman
06-07-2012, 11:06 AM
This is really stupid. Just a bunch of our elected dummies showing how bigoted they can be.

Star_Cards
06-07-2012, 11:10 AM
I'm for all religious ideology being out of our laws, this is ridiculous. what a waste of tax dollars and time.

duane1969
06-07-2012, 01:33 PM
As the population of Muslims continues to grow in this country the logical conclusion is that eventually they will seek to be represented by their own laws. If this hadn't happened in other places I might see it differently, but there are already places that used to have English style law that have had an infusion of Sharia law that is now complicating their legal process. There are currently 11 Nigerian states that have some form of Sharia law influencing their judicial system and that influence is making the proper administration of laws, as they pertain to women, impossible to fairly apply. In essence, Sharia law is causing women to be dealt with differently than men in their judicial system. http://www.umes.edu/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=33898

Not opposing Sharia law being infused into our legal system is essentially condoning that women will be treated differently than men will if Sharia is allowed to influence our legal system. Even making an exception and allowing Sharia law to be applied to Muslim issues within our country would require accepting that women will be treated differently and by default would be allowing Sharia law to trump U.S. law.

shrewsbury
06-07-2012, 01:35 PM
nice post

pghin08
06-07-2012, 01:41 PM
As the population of Muslims continues to grow in this country the logical conclusion is that eventually they will seek to be represented by their own laws. If this hadn't happened in other places I might see it differently, but there are already places that used to have English style law that have had an infusion of Sharia law that is now complicating their legal process. There are currently 11 Nigerian states that have some form of Sharia law influencing their judicial system and that influence is making the proper administration of laws, as they pertain to women, impossible to fairly apply. In essence, Sharia law is causing women to be dealt with differently than men in their judicial system. http://www.umes.edu/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=33898

Not opposing Sharia law being infused into our legal system is essentially condoning that women will be treated differently than men will if Sharia is allowed to influence our legal system. Even making an exception and allowing Sharia law to be applied to Muslim issues within our country would require accepting that women will be treated differently and by default would be allowing Sharia law to trump U.S. law.

The Pew Research Center has this to say:

"In the United States, for example, the population projections show the number of Muslims more than doubling over the next two decades, rising from 2.6 million in 2010 to 6.2 million in 2030, in large part because of immigration and higher-than-average fertility among Muslims. The Muslim share of the U.S. population (adults and children) is projected to grow from 0.8% in 2010 to 1.7% in 2030"

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1872/muslim-population-projections-worldwide-fast-growth

Not exactly what I would call an overwhelming amount of people. Most Muslims I know understand that U.S. law is just that, and they choose to accept that in order to live here.

mrveggieman
06-07-2012, 01:56 PM
As the population of Muslims continues to grow in this country the logical conclusion is that eventually they will seek to be represented by their own laws. If this hadn't happened in other places I might see it differently, but there are already places that used to have English style law that have had an infusion of Sharia law that is now complicating their legal process. There are currently 11 Nigerian states that have some form of Sharia law influencing their judicial system and that influence is making the proper administration of laws, as they pertain to women, impossible to fairly apply. In essence, Sharia law is causing women to be dealt with differently than men in their judicial system. http://www.umes.edu/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=33898

Not opposing Sharia law being infused into our legal system is essentially condoning that women will be treated differently than men will if Sharia is allowed to influence our legal system. Even making an exception and allowing Sharia law to be applied to Muslim issues within our country would require accepting that women will be treated differently and by default would be allowing Sharia law to trump U.S. law.


I would have no problem with this if they also made a special law prohibiting christian and jewish customs from influencing our laws. But we all know who controls this country and that will never happen.

DaClyde
06-07-2012, 01:59 PM
It is important to take the rest of the statement into consideration: "from using Islamic or other non-U.S. laws when making decisions".

The bold part is also important, as in the last 15 years there have been judges (to include Supreme Court justices) who have cited assorted international laws as influencing their rulings. Islamic law is only mentioned in the rhetoric surrounding the bill, it's not actually cited in the bill itself:

http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/measures/documents/sb79_enrolled.pdf


Sec. 7. Nothing in this act shall be construed to allow a court to: (a)
Adjudicate or prohibit any religious organization from deciding upon ec-
clesiastical matters of a religious organization, including, but not limited
to, the selection, appointment, calling, discipline, dismissal, removal or
excommunication of a member, member of the clergy, or other person
who performs ministerial functions; or (b) determine or interpret the
doctrine of a religious organization, including, but not limited to, where
adjudication by a court would violate the prohibitions of the religion
clauses of the first amendment to the constitution of the United States,
or violate the constitution of the state of Kansas.

So effectively this applies to ALL religious and international law, not just Islamic law.

angel0430
06-07-2012, 04:04 PM
wooooo

this is stopping people from using the grounds of religion to beat the laws of our country.

this is no attack on religion. if you want to see that, just look at the pictures, statues, and other works removed from federal and state buildings

and do any of you know about sharia law?

does this fit in any of your ideas of laws?

sharia law is very discriminating in many ways, i for one am against it. any law that includes discrimination of women and homosexuals is not for me.

Totally agree. I am in the military and I guess this also aplies for regular tourist. When we go to any other country we have to abide byt their rules, no questions asks. They need to realize that theya re in the United States and they need to follow our laws and not thiers. 100% fine with the passing of this law.

Not everytime some one makes changes to the law or something means that they are targetting a specific religion or nationality.

theonedru
06-07-2012, 04:16 PM
Totally agree. I am in the military and I guess this also aplies for regular tourist. When we go to any other country we have to abide byt their rules, no questions asks. They need to realize that theya re in the United States and they need to follow our laws and not thiers. 100% fine with the passing of this law.

Not everytime some one makes changes to the law or something means that they are targetting a specific religion or nationality.

So then why just Sharia law that covers some Muslims, why just that specific one and not broaden it to cover any or all foreign or religious laws? It could be argued that its because of Americas backlash at the Muslim community as a whole that would make it discriminating. I am for a law banning all religions from influencing any law that would discriminate against anyone in one way or another.

angel0430
06-07-2012, 04:35 PM
So then why just Sharia law that covers some Muslims, why just that specific one and not broaden it to cover any or all foreign or religious laws? It could be argued that its because of Americas backlash at the Muslim community as a whole that would make it discriminating. I am for a law banning all religions from influencing any law that would discriminate against anyone in one way or another.

I know what you mean and that was the main point of my post. Sorry if I didn't got into more details. I am speaking about all other religions/law. You have to follow the rules of the nation or place that you are visiting or you live in. My point is that people come here and because they have some believes back in their country, we have to change and accomodate them and that is not going to happen.

shrewsbury
06-07-2012, 04:53 PM
what christian laws are discriminating?

if you say gay marriage, i will say show me where jesus says gays can't be married

i just watched a hsow on a gay nurse being imprisoned for being gay in saudi arabia, they literally have the religious police, who are nothing more than bullies

JustAlex
06-07-2012, 06:24 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lm2JI7sGwYI/TJpEFqwH8nI/AAAAAAAALMU/Jdb2_l4Of5w/s1600/freedom+from+religion.jpg


THIS MEANS ALL RELIGION!!!!!

I Don't want any Christianity in my Government!

boba
06-07-2012, 06:33 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lm2JI7sGwYI/TJpEFqwH8nI/AAAAAAAALMU/Jdb2_l4Of5w/s1600/freedom+from+religion.jpg


THIS MEANS ALL RELIGION!!!!!

I Don't want any Christianity in my Government!

Actually, it's of religion ; )

shrewsbury
06-07-2012, 08:23 PM
your government? thought it was ours

mrveggieman
06-08-2012, 08:40 AM
i just watched a hsow on a gay nurse being imprisoned for being gay in saudi arabia, they literally have the religious police, who are nothing more than bullies


I agree with you on that. We were discussing something on here a few months ago and I was the first one to clown saudi arabia for having a cheif of religious police. I want in our country for anyone and everyone to have the right to peacefully practice his/her chosen religion or not to practice anything at all if that whats floats their boat without fear of any reprisials, or harassment from the gov't, their employeer, the media, other religious institutions or anyone else. I would also like to see a persons religious views be a non issue during elections. Im not sure if it will happen in my lifetime but it would be nice.

shrewsbury
06-08-2012, 08:43 AM
nice post veggieman

JustAlex
06-08-2012, 05:15 PM
your government? thought it was ours

It is ours....unfortunately it's NOT the secular government that the authors of the constitution intended it to be!


And just for the record, let me tell you that I find Christianity more dangerous to America than Islam.

shrewsbury
06-08-2012, 05:40 PM
what is dangerous about it?

how am i dangerous? how is jesus dangerous?

JustAlex
06-08-2012, 06:06 PM
what is dangerous about it?

how am i dangerous? how is jesus dangerous?

Just look at the candidates that are super religious:

Bachmann, Perry, Santorum.....they all want to turn this nation into a THEOCRACY!

I have nothing against you personally, your beliefs are your own and I'm not saying you shouldn't have them.

However, we need to keep ALL religion out of the government!

I DON'T want to hear our president, senators, or congressmen talk about God or Christianity or anything of the sort.

Keep your beliefs to yourself, and don't let your beliefs influence public policy.


Unfortunately the GOP (in general) don't do that!!!

They want to make public policy based on their christian beliefs....and that's why Atheist are on the rise in America, we can't stand it anymore, we don't want a country run by religion, that's why we need to protect (now more than ever) Freedom FROM religion and Separation of church and state!

shrewsbury
06-08-2012, 07:20 PM
They want to make public policy based on their christian beliefs.

can you explain?

i agree their our too many loud mouths who say they are christian (maybe that's not fair, i guess i should say they are christian)

i am unsure how you can seperate them

and one of the biggest issues with society is coveting, but should this not be confronted because it is mentioned in the bible?

Wickabee
06-09-2012, 11:07 AM
no, but this is an uprising and we need to get some laws in place to stop it from influencing our laws
Why? Your laws already exist and Muslim law has nothing to do with it. Legislators would actually have to write or rewrite your own laws before it's an actual concern. As it stands, it's quite redundant and that's why it looks bigoted. It's an unnecessary and redundant law targeting a particular group for no real reason.

tpeichel
06-09-2012, 12:03 PM
It is ours....unfortunately it's NOT the secular government that the authors of the constitution intended it to be!


And just for the record, let me tell you that I find Christianity more dangerous to America than Islam.

Absolutely ludicrous. You do realize that this society has created more freedom, liberty, and prosperity than any other in the history of the world, and that the guiding principles of this society all come from Christianity?

Do you think we'd be better off electing leaders that follow Islam? Can you tell me how many terrorist plots we've stopped since 9/11 that involved Christians? How many were plots planned by Muslims? You really need to provide some evidence to support a radical statement like that.

Wickabee
06-09-2012, 12:16 PM
Absolutely ludicrous. You do realize that this society has created more freedom, liberty, and prosperity than any other in the history of the world, and that the guiding principles of this society all come from Christianity?

Do you think we'd be better off electing leaders that follow Islam? Can you tell me how many terrorist plots we've stopped since 9/11 that involved Christians? How many were plots planned by Muslims? You really need to provide some evidence to support a radical statement like that.
Why would Christians plot terrorism against a country they largely run?
That's comparing apples and oranges.

duane1969
06-09-2012, 12:48 PM
I would have no problem with this if they also made a special law prohibiting christian and jewish customs from influencing our laws. But we all know who controls this country and that will never happen.

If the components of Judaic law that influences our legal system were the types of influences that caused women to be punished for crimes that men were not punished for, allowed women to be executed for minor crimes and treated women as property and not equals, then I would agree.

In Sharia law women are little more than cattle. They are servants to the man and have absolutely no rights. Not opposing the infusion of Sharia law into our legal system is a condonement of the subjugation of women.

tpeichel
06-09-2012, 01:13 PM
Why would Christians plot terrorism against a country they largely run?
That's comparing apples and oranges.

I'm not sure why he's more afraid of Christians than Muslims. That's why I asked him to support his assertion.

ajw9356
06-09-2012, 01:38 PM
I'm from Kansas and simply put we already have laws governing the items covered in this bill, by passing such a bill some of the regulations in our established laws are bypassed overlooked however you want to say it. Simply put by not signing it says that that our precedent has already been set and there aren't any exceptions being passed into law regardless of race religion creed age or sex, our set laws are fair and practiced by all. I think it's well established that tax dollars are continually wasted on pointless political issues no matter which state you live in so finger pointing at my state does no one any good and is more like kids on a playground complaining to a teacher over getting their feelings hurt when they started the name calling. In no way do I not support other religions from practice but I don't feel it gives anyone different rights and rules by which I have to abide.

DaClyde
06-09-2012, 02:16 PM
It's the age old government tactic. The government or law enforcement fails to enforce certain laws. Therefore those laws must not be effective, so the solution is obviously to pass more redundant laws. I think politicians are genetically predisposed to blindness of the obvious. Is this law necessary? Of course not, any more than MLB should need rules about use of illegal substances. If a substance is already illegal in the U.S., that should be enough for MLB. Instead of issuing suspensions or bans, they should be turning their evidence over to law enforcement and sending offending players to jail.

All the state and federal legislators would better serve their constituencies by spending a full year repealing redundant, overlapping and contradictory laws instead of passing more.

Wickabee
06-09-2012, 03:21 PM
I'm not sure why he's more afraid of Christians than Muslims. That's why I asked him to support his assertion.
Well, I can't answer for him but Christians are largely in power in the Western World. That makes them more of a threat, since they hold all the cards.

Theodor Madison
06-09-2012, 03:34 PM
if there is any law that should be imposed, is the law that has been passed or voted on. If anyone wants their own laws instated, they need to run them just like any other law. If you live in this country laws should be minded whether you believe in them or not. If you do not mind perhaps there is another country that has laws that conform to your beliefs.

JustAlex
06-09-2012, 06:01 PM
Absolutely ludicrous. You do realize that this society has created more freedom, liberty, and prosperity than any other in the history of the world, and that the guiding principles of this society all come from Christianity?

Do you think we'd be better off electing leaders that follow Islam? Can you tell me how many terrorist plots we've stopped since 9/11 that involved Christians? How many were plots planned by Muslims? You really need to provide some evidence to support a radical statement like that.

Christianity IS just as dangerous as Islam if not more!

Christianity terrorizes people into thinking that they are going to hell.

It discriminates against gays and women!

It enslaves the mind and doesn't allow it's followers to doubt their beliefs (e.g this is why most christians reject Evolution, when 99% of scientists say it's true)


Christianity is one of the reasons why we have so much division in the U.S, and several FANATICAL Christian political leaders want to make this country into a Theocracy (E.g Bachmann, Perry, Santorum).

shrewsbury
06-09-2012, 09:16 PM
bachman, perry and santorum? what threat are they? i don't really like or dislike any of them as people, and find them more amusing than scary.

it is strange that christianity has given birth to many fanatics, just like any other religion. christianity is the largest religion so odds will favor there are more crazy christians than most other religions.

but i don't like the idea of all this being on the back of christianity, us normal day christians are not anti-gay, or tell people they will burn in hell, or enslave anyone.

people against abortion don't have to bring religion into it, people against gay marriage don't have to bring religion into it, in fact my god tells me to use my own brain he gave me to find logic in everything i believe or think. what someone is telling you is christianity is just their version of it, not everyone else's.

but you don't see the majority of christians oppressing women and children, or dragging gays of the street and throwing them in prison. in a christian country you would not see a woman caught drinking a beer in public or kissing in public will be beaten. a child has no free will of thought and is told everything they must do and say and think, but look in other religions and you will be astonished by the acts commited in the name of god. this is not to say some christians do not practice these things, but not the majority.

tpeichel
06-11-2012, 02:10 AM
Christianity IS just as dangerous as Islam if not more!

Christianity terrorizes people into thinking that they are going to hell.

It discriminates against gays and women!

It enslaves the mind and doesn't allow it's followers to doubt their beliefs (e.g this is why most christians reject Evolution, when 99% of scientists say it's true)


Christianity is one of the reasons why we have so much division in the U.S, and several FANATICAL Christian political leaders want to make this country into a Theocracy (E.g Bachmann, Perry, Santorum).

This country is 75-80% Christian. If Christianity is so horrible, why has this nation thrived? Do you think we would be better off if the majority of the people in this country converted to Islam and elected Muslim leaders?

theonedru
06-11-2012, 02:24 AM
This country is 75-80% Christian. If Christianity is so horrible, why has this nation thrived? Do you think we would be better off if the majority of the people in this country converted to Islam and elected Muslim leaders?

Thrived .. THRIVED.... This country has been living beyond its means for decades, it has not thrived. Look around you and the past few years. It's all been one huge lie. This country is in excess of 15 trillion $'s in DEBT .. Thats not thriving, thats lunacy, esp when we are too foolish to stop or even slow down.

tpeichel
06-11-2012, 02:44 AM
I agree that there has been false prosperity for the last few decades and expect that a 20-30% correction in GDP is on the way, but that still leaves us with over a $10+ trillion/year economy.

Wickabee
06-11-2012, 01:40 PM
The USA has "thrived" by exploiting every other nation as much as they possibly can. Just because you're successful doesn't mean you aren't dangerous. In fact it more likely means you are.

shrewsbury
06-11-2012, 03:24 PM
wow, but it is ok for muslims to try and pass a law with the UN to have anyone who disgraces their religion be killed, or even better, anyone who tries to leave islam is killed


and you are worried about christians????????

i would say this is the classic bully effect, pick on those who will not defend themselves, but stay away from the rest

tutall
06-12-2012, 12:38 PM
Christianity IS just as dangerous as Islam if not more!

Christianity terrorizes people into thinking that they are going to hell.

It discriminates against gays and women!

It enslaves the mind and doesn't allow it's followers to doubt their beliefs (e.g this is why most christians reject Evolution, when 99% of scientists say it's true)


Christianity is one of the reasons why we have so much division in the U.S, and several FANATICAL Christian political leaders want to make this country into a Theocracy (E.g Bachmann, Perry, Santorum).

I would love to know which Christian law affects you or a loved one the most in your day to day life. I mean... I hate when the guy at the mall trys to talk my wife into a 30 dollar bottle of hand lotion but like other things we simply walk by and say no thanks. No one is forcing you to do anything.