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View Full Version : hasidic jew fired from nypd over beard



shrewsbury
06-12-2012, 10:36 PM
what is your take on this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162-57450866/hasidic-jew-fired-from-nypd-over-beard-length/


An Orthodox Jew who was weeks away from becoming a New York City police officer says he has been kicked out of the police academy for refusing to trim his beard.

Former recruit Fishel Litzman of Monsey tells the Daily News (http://nydn.us/LDIivf) that he was fired Friday after multiple confrontations with the department over the length of his whiskers.

Litzman is Hasidic and believes that cutting his beard is forbidden by God.

NYPD rules usually require officers to be clean-shaven. The department makes exceptions for beards kept for religious purposes, but even then only allows 1 millimeter worth of growth.

AUTaxMan
06-12-2012, 11:01 PM
When you have a job, you need to follow your employer's dress code. If you aren't willing to do that, you need to work somewhere else.

ensbergcollector
06-12-2012, 11:49 PM
gotta agree with taxman on this. you know when you apply that there are guidelines. if you proceed knowing you plan to break the rules, you are asking to lose your job.

Zimbow
06-13-2012, 01:11 AM
I agree with everyone who has posted. If your employer has specific guidelines for a dress code or clean shaven, it would probably be best to follow them if you plan on staying.

mrveggieman
06-13-2012, 08:17 AM
I have to agree with the nypd on this one as well even though I wonder what is the purpose of not allowing facial on jobs as long as it is well kept.

habsheaven
06-13-2012, 08:26 AM
This is one area where I am in full agreement with you guys.

Star_Cards
06-13-2012, 08:29 AM
agreed. if it was a rule before you started then you really don't have a choice. Although I never really understood those rules outside of jobs in the food industry or jobs where it could potentially contaminate.

pghin08
06-13-2012, 08:45 AM
Am I the only one who has a problem with this? If he's a Hasidic Jew, he's had that beard for quite some time, probably. So why didn't the NYPD say this to him right off the bat, rather than letting him hang around the academy for weeks/months?

I also have a fundamental disagreement with the NYPD here. I want good cops patrolling my streets, I don't care if they're bearded Hasidic Jews or whatever they are, as long as they're good.

habsheaven
06-13-2012, 09:10 AM
Am I the only one who has a problem with this? If he's a Hasidic Jew, he's had that beard for quite some time, probably. So why didn't the NYPD say this to him right off the bat, rather than letting him hang around the academy for weeks/months?

I also have a fundamental disagreement with the NYPD here. I want good cops patrolling my streets, I don't care if they're bearded Hasidic Jews or whatever they are, as long as they're good.

I am guessing that the "multiple confrontations" were a legitimate attempt to get him to adhere to the policy before he graduated. He is the one breaking a rule. The onus is on him to address it one way or the other before it gets this far along. You may have a fundamental disagreement with the rule itself but I think they handled the situation as best they could.

pghin08
06-13-2012, 09:18 AM
I am guessing that the "multiple confrontations" were a legitimate attempt to get him to adhere to the policy before he graduated. He is the one breaking a rule. The onus is on him to address it one way or the other before it gets this far along. You may have a fundamental disagreement with the rule itself but I think they handled the situation as best they could.

I guess you're right, but I'm definitely a bit blinded by the fact that I very much disagree with the rule. I don't think people should be fired for how they look. If you're bad at your job, fine, you should be fired. Otherwise, you should be able to keep that job. If your house was being robbed, and you were being held at gunpoint, and a cop comes in and nails the guy, will you really think, "Man, I'm uncomfortable with this guy's beard."?

shrewsbury
06-13-2012, 09:59 AM
my issue is he knew the rules to start with. a hasidic jew believes they cannot trim there beard or they will be in trouble with god.

so why even sign up to start with?

the reason is because people think they should be the exception to the rule

to me this proves how nonreligious he is, make god mad or not work the job, if you believe in god, that should be an easy choice.

pghin08
06-13-2012, 10:02 AM
my issue is he knew the rules to start with. a hasidic jew believes they cannot trim there beard or they will be in trouble with god.

so why even sign up to start with?

the reason is because people think they should be the exception to the rule

to me this proves how nonreligious he is, make god mad or not work the job, if you believe in god, that should be an easy choice.

Maybe he thought he could get the NYPD to cave if he showed them how good a cop he could be.

habsheaven
06-13-2012, 10:06 AM
I guess you're right, but I'm definitely a bit blinded by the fact that I very much disagree with the rule. I don't think people should be fired for how they look. If you're bad at your job, fine, you should be fired. Otherwise, you should be able to keep that job. If your house was being robbed, and you were being held at gunpoint, and a cop comes in and nails the guy, will you really think, "Man, I'm uncomfortable with this guy's beard."?

For me, being employed in the professional world for 25 years, I have grown accustomed to having expectations placed on me regarding my appearance. Rightly or wrongly, I get judged by how I am seen. Shirt and tie everyday, big meetings or outside clients require a suit, casual day (rare that they are), mean dressy casual. Nobody wants a long-haired accountant wearing flipflops and cut off jeans.

Just imagine this guy's beard (untrimmed or uncut) after 15 years on the force. It would definitely become a distraction when interacting with the public.

Star_Cards
06-13-2012, 10:14 AM
For me, being employed in the professional world for 25 years, I have grown accustomed to having expectations placed on me regarding my appearance. Rightly or wrongly, I get judged by how I am seen. Shirt and tie everyday, big meetings or outside clients require a suit, casual day (rare that they are), mean dressy casual. Nobody wants a long-haired accountant wearing flipflops and cut off jeans.

Just imagine this guy's beard (untrimmed or uncut) after 15 years on the force. It would definitely become a distraction when interacting with the public.

I can see this. There are expectations of appearance based on one's job.

shrewsbury
06-13-2012, 11:07 AM
and again, if you are religious, then god should come first, that is an easy one.

why would you put yourself in a known situation that puts you at odds with your god?