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tpeichel
06-15-2012, 03:47 PM
After years of claiming that he did not have the authority to grant amnesty without Congressional approval, President Obama changed course and is now claiming the authority to enact an amnesty program for illegal aliens.

Push back was immediate as the President was interrupted in the Rose Garden by a reporter asking if this was good for American Workers?

shrewsbury
06-15-2012, 03:54 PM
i listened to the speech, pretty funny

my issue is, where will they work?

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 03:59 PM
i listened to the speech, pretty funny

my issue is, where will they work?


The standard response would be, "jobs Americans won't do"!

shortking98
06-15-2012, 04:00 PM
i listened to the speech, pretty funny

my issue is, where will they work?

If they've already been in the US for at least 5 years straight wouldn't that imply that they are already working? I have barely browsed the issues though so I could be wrong on this

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 04:03 PM
If they've already been in the US for at least 5 years straight wouldn't that imply that they are already working? I have barely browsed the issues though so I could be wrong on this

If they were working, it would have been illegally. Now they will be able to compete for jobs that use e-verify to check for citizenship, etc.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-15-2012, 04:26 PM
I'm glad he did this , This should be the straw that breaks the camels back . His career as a politician is about to be over .

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 04:48 PM
I'm glad he did this , This should be the straw that breaks the camels back . His career as a politician is about to be over .

I agree that this is a losing position, but maybe he thinks the people offended by this are already lost.

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 05:35 PM
Still better than having a:

MEXICAN-MORMON-DOG ABUSING-ILLEGITIMATE-POLYGAMIST.....as president!

AUTaxMan
06-15-2012, 05:49 PM
I agree that this is a losing position, but maybe he thinks the people offended by this are already lost.

Sure isn't going to make the unions happy.

FlyersFan
06-15-2012, 06:11 PM
It just amazes me that if an American citizens goes out and robs a bank they are tried, convicted, and sentenced to jail time yet ILLEAGAL ALIENS can come here to the United States which is ILLEAGAL if not done properly and they get amnesty. A broken law is a broken law, if you rob a bank you go to jail - if you illeagally come to this country you should be deported. I have no problem with immigration but there is a wright way and a wrong way to do things. Why is this so hard. My only question is (because I am not as up on political rules as I should be), will the people that this affects be able to vote - if so I think we just figured out why this was done.

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 06:24 PM
Check out Project Veritas for some examples on how easy it is to vote without having to prove who you are.

And is it a coincidence that Eric Holder is suing the state of Florida since they are trying to purge their voter rolls of dead people and illegal aliens?

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/06/13/obamaholder-doj-sues-florida-over-voter-roll-clean-up/

MadMan1978
06-15-2012, 06:25 PM
I am applauded on what i read in here at times...and this thread now has taken the cake...

So I ask you all REPUBLICANS

It isnt a good thing when Obama-a DEMOCRAT suggest and does this you are all up in arms...ummm but you do remember when the great one RONALD REAGAN did the very same thing back some 30 years ago?

Really?

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 06:34 PM
I am applauded on what i read in here at times...and this thread now has taken the cake...

So I ask you all REPUBLICANS

It isnt a good thing when Obama-a DEMOCRAT suggest and does this you are all up in arms...ummm but you do remember when the great one RONALD REAGAN did the very same thing back some 30 years ago?

Really?

The deal Reagan thought he was making was amnesty for border control and enforcement. It failed. Why repeat that mistake?

shrewsbury
06-15-2012, 06:43 PM
madman, i was 13 when reagan was in office, didn't care too much back then.

it's not about obama, well at least for me, it is about the economy.

he could do a few simple things and turn this all around, get re elected, and more importantly show he is a great leader.

Alex, really????

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 06:43 PM
Sure isn't going to make the unions happy.

Or the poor or teenagers looking for work.

FlyersFan
06-15-2012, 06:51 PM
I am applauded on what i read in here at times...and this thread now has taken the cake...

So I ask you all REPUBLICANS

It isnt a good thing when Obama-a DEMOCRAT suggest and does this you are all up in arms...ummm but you do remember when the great one RONALD REAGAN did the very same thing back some 30 years ago?

Really?


To young to remark on what Reagan did but if he did do this than he was wrong too. So everyone that is in favor of this has no problem with these people breaking the law in the first place ?

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 06:52 PM
It just amazes me that if an American citizens goes out and robs a bank they are tried, convicted, and sentenced to jail time yet ILLEAGAL ALIENS can come here to the United States which is ILLEAGAL if not done properly and they get amnesty. A broken law is a broken law, if you rob a bank you go to jail - if you illeagally come to this country you should be deported. I have no problem with immigration but there is a wright way and a wrong way to do things. Why is this so hard. My only question is (because I am not as up on political rules as I should be), will the people that this affects be able to vote - if so I think we just figured out why this was done.

Yeah, kinda like those puritans that emigrated to the this land and literally converted everyone to their religion and later just KILLED everyone they didn't like.

Pfft....if anyone is to blame it's Americans who employ them for slave wages (Which no decent American is willing to do) but to many of these people it's enough to make a living and send money home to their relatives.

I Push a major part of the blame on Americans!


I am applauded on what i read in here at times...and this thread now has taken the cake...

So I ask you all REPUBLICANS

It isnt a good thing when Obama-a DEMOCRAT suggest and does this you are all up in arms...ummm but you do remember when the great one RONALD REAGAN did the very same thing back some 30 years ago?

Really?

LOL, you'll never get anything out of Republicans.

And how DARE you insult the WONDERFUL, BENEVOLENT, ABSOLUTELY INFALLIBLE Ronald Reagan???

I mean, he's the American Jesus who died for our sins.....or so I hear from many GOP members :rolleyes:

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 06:54 PM
ALSO.....THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/lilhideo/townhallface_SLAH.jpg

shrewsbury
06-15-2012, 07:00 PM
alex, you are on a roll tonight.

you put the blame on americans? well how about all our grandparents and great grandparent that came over here the right way? Ellis Island wasn't no cake and getting there was even harder. these people came dirt poor and worked hard and helped make what america is today, they became and will always be Americans.

typical entitlement approving liberal talk, it's always someone else's fault.

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 07:07 PM
you put the blame on americans? well how about all our grandparents and great grandparent that came over here the right way? Ellis Island wasn't no cake and getting there was even harder. these people came dirt poor and worked hard and helped make what america is today, they became and will always be Americans.

Immigrants today come here wanting to work and make their lives just a tiny bit better.

They are WILLING to pay taxes and abide by the rules, the reason they come illegally is because it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to come legally unless you have a lot of money.

BTW, how CAN'T you not put the blame on Americans if every Employer actually followed the rules then they would NEVER hire any illegal immigrants.

And yet they DO!

WHY?

Because it's the "American way" to exploit others make LOADS of Money!

Money, money, money!!!

That's what it's all about in our terrible capitalistic paradise, we don't care about anyone, we don't care how we get the money, as long as we get it.


But now that jobs are scarce......GET OUT!!!!!!!!!



typical entitlement approving liberal talk, it's always someone else's fault.

Pfft....you do realize I'm blaming US not them.

and it is OUR fault!

Your the one blaming someone else!

FlyersFan
06-15-2012, 07:07 PM
Honestly I sort of agree that some of the blame has to be put on Americans.

1. for the reason you stated above. they work for damn near nothing, house about 20 in a single family house and still have money left over to send back home.

2. the Americans that are suppose to make and enforce the laws of immigration are not doing so. Its so messed up now that if a politician actually does want to enforce the law of deporting ILLEAGAL immigrants they are stonned.

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 07:15 PM
Immigrants today come here wanting to work and make their lives just a tiny bit better.



If we let everyone in who wanted to work hard and make their lives better, tens of millions of people would stream into the country every year and before long we'd be just another third world country.

How is that good for anyone?

MadMan1978
06-15-2012, 07:18 PM
madman, i was 13 when reagan was in office, didn't care too much back then.

it's not about obama, well at least for me, it is about the economy.

he could do a few simple things and turn this all around, get re elected, and more importantly show he is a great leader.

Alex, really????
To be honest I am not sure whether they are here illegally or legal makes a difference and such on the economy as a whole

shrewsbury
06-15-2012, 07:20 PM
where are all these evil americans? i only have known one business to ever hire illegals, and they got busted and deported, in fact ate there often and played soccer with one of them a few times.

about $1500 to get a green card


alex, who did i blame? i asked where they would get jobs at, with unemployment so high it is hard for anyone.

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 07:22 PM
If we let everyone in who wanted to work hard and make their lives better, tens of millions of people would stream into the country every year and before long we'd be just another third world country.

How is that good for anyone?

Did I say I wanted that?

The U.S has no one to blame but ITSELF!

Employers put greed ahead of human decency and gave jobs to illegal immigrants fully knowing they were committing a CRIME!

Ever stop and actually think what would've happen if employers actually follow the rules?



I live in Florida.....when I was 19 I was looking for a summer job to help pay my college tuition.....of course it was tough to find a job but when I did find one I found myself in a small warehouse where the Employer was paying TERRIBLE wages.

I was working in the office, while many immigrents were in the warehouse working their BUTTS off earning $5.00/hour.

$5.00/hour!!!!!.....and this was in 2007!!!!

NO AMERICAN is going to work for those slave wages!!!


America......land of the exploited and exploiters!!!

shrewsbury
06-15-2012, 07:23 PM
madman, i am talking about compromise, taxes, and such

shrewsbury
06-15-2012, 07:24 PM
you love to throw the few in with the many

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 07:26 PM
Did I say I wanted that?



So you don't support amnesty for illegal aliens?

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 07:32 PM
So you don't support amnesty for illegal aliens?

Does it matter?

We created this problem, obviously the solution is not simple.

I'm not sure if I support it.

But unlike many of you guys, I don't outright reject it because I hate Obama or because I hate the democrats or because I don't like illegal immigrants in the U.S.

Americans have been exploiting immigrants for DECADES and now we tell them to "Get out"?

And people wonder why everyone thinks this country is evil?

We we do detestable things around the world and in our own country and then we expect others to love us just because we're USA and we're supposedly the "Good guys".


Give me a break....

shrewsbury
06-15-2012, 07:36 PM
who hates obama?

FlyersFan
06-15-2012, 07:38 PM
Does it matter?

We created this problem, obviously the solution is not simple.

I'm not sure if I support it.

But unlike many of you guys, I don't outright reject it because I hate Obama or because I hate the democrats or because I don't like illegal immigrants in the U.S.

Americans have been exploiting immigrants for DECADES and now we tell them to "Get out"?

And people wonder why everyone thinks this country is evil?

We we do detestable things around the world and in our own country and then we expect others to love us just because we're USA and we're supposedly the "Good guys".


Give me a break....

So if were so evil and do detestable things why do the immigrants want to come here so bad that they are willing to break the law and do it ILLEGALLY ?

INTIMADATOR2007
06-15-2012, 07:45 PM
I say we treat people who cross our border the way we would be treated if we crossed their border. If the liberals think we are so harsh on the people who cross our border Illeagly, check the laws of mexico if an american crossed the mexican border in the dead of night . This country has got to get serious with our laws on the books, to bad we have a president and justice dept. who bring there own laws to the table . ...

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 07:46 PM
So if were so evil and do detestable things why do the immigrants want to come here so bad that they are willing to break the law and do it ILLEGALLY ?

Because as bad as they are treated, as poor as they are.

Life is still better here than in their native countries.


That isn't to say we're a better country.....we just have better resources and more land.

C'mon, lets think about this.

In the 80s Americans start hiring illegals left and right to do all kinds of jobs for slave wages, later Amnesty is given to them, and it creates a bigger influx of immigrants in the 90s.

No one says anything because in some TWISTED way, it benefits both parties.

But of course in the End, the one who comes out on top is rich Americans.....what a surprise!

But eventually like any economy, there are bad times.....should we blame ourselves?

NO!

We blame anyone and everyone....except ourselves.

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 07:54 PM
Does it matter?

We created this problem, obviously the solution is not simple.

I'm not sure if I support it.

But unlike many of you guys, I don't outright reject it because I hate Obama or because I hate the democrats or because I don't like illegal immigrants in the U.S.

Americans have been exploiting immigrants for DECADES and now we tell them to "Get out"?



Yes.

Nobody forced them to come here and nobody made any promises to them about a future in America.

I'm not exploiting them, why should I foot the bill for their education, protection, and healthcare?

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 08:09 PM
Yes.

Nobody forced them to come here and nobody made any promises to them about a future in America.

I'm not exploiting them, why should I foot the bill for their education, protection, and healthcare?

You didn't exploit them, but your fellow countrymen did!

Besides, I clearly said, I'm not sure if I support Amnesty or not.

tpeichel
06-15-2012, 08:18 PM
You didn't exploit them, but your fellow countrymen did!

Besides, I clearly said, I'm not sure if I support Amnesty or not.

So if my neighbor impregnates a woman I should pay the child support?

There is no logical reason that you should hold me responsible for paying for the education, protection, and healthcare of illegal aliens simply because someone else hired them illegally.

MadMan1978
06-15-2012, 08:28 PM
I say we treat people who cross our border the way we would be treated if we crossed their border. If the liberals think we are so harsh on the people who cross our border Illeagly, check the laws of mexico if an american crossed the mexican border in the dead of night . This country has got to get serious with our laws on the books, to bad we have a president and justice dept. who bring there own laws to the table . ...


yeah and I wish the the Natives had done the same with us back a few years ago ...

JustAlex
06-15-2012, 08:31 PM
yeah and I wish the the Natives had done the same with us back a few years ago ...

WIN!

And yeah, I also wish the Natives would've had better success against the horrible puritans and their infectious beliefs.

tutall
06-15-2012, 08:35 PM
couple things...

First wages paid to illegals at least where I live are mainly on piece rate or tips... They have the ability to make what they want... Also since no taxes are paid 5 dollars is more like 8 dollars when you figure in taxes, SS, etc...

Second, These people broke the law... Regardless if you agree with the law or not they are criminals. I dont like the seat belt law but if I break it and get caught I hav to pay the state 25 dollars... They came in the country illegally so why should they be able to continue on like nothing is wrong. Change the law if you want to but you cant give a free pass in the middle of the law.

Third as far as the jobs no one else is doing I completely disagree... I know plenty of Americans who are out of work that would probably love to make 5-7 dollars per hour under the table.

For exploiting them? Are you serious? There is a reason they came here.. If they dont like it or think they are being exploited go back to Mexico.

Go to any other developed country and just try to go in and live amongst everyone else without going through any hoops and see how long it works.... Or like mentioned above... Go to the border and cross it into Mexico and run and see how far you get.

OnePimpTiger
06-15-2012, 09:07 PM
Alex, really????

You had to say something, didn't you? I was enjoying how rational this thread was.

Rockman
06-15-2012, 09:51 PM
I love how everyone is acting like he just granted amnesty to every illegal immigrant in America.

The requirements


Under the administration plan, illegal immigrants will be immune from deportation if they were brought to the United States before they turned 16 and are younger than 30, have been in the country for at least five continuous years, have no criminal history, graduated from a U.S. high school or earned a GED, or served in the military. They also can apply for a work permit that will be good for two years with no limits on how many times it can be renewed.

Can anyone explain to me how granting amnesty to those who were previously illegal, who with tax payers money received an American education and keeping them in America, instead of deporting these educated law abiding citizens is a bad idea? For a lot these people America is the only home they have known, why send them away after all this time.

Besides, now we can tax them.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-15-2012, 10:05 PM
Its all about the election. This president will do anything to get re-elected. Look at the polls he is losing voters in every bracket black,white , hispanic, young & old . This action will help in the hispanic vote but will piss off alot of the other voters . In the end He will still lose in a landslide . And i cant wait !

INTIMADATOR2007
06-15-2012, 11:32 PM
From Congressman Allen West ......This is yet another example of executive branch overreach. We have a legislative process that ensures representative governance by the consent of the American people. This action should be crafted into legislation, debated in committee and brought before the House and Senate for vote, with accordance of our Constitutional Republic way. Secretary Napolitano is an unelected administrative bureaucrat who does not have the right to make governing decisions for this country. It is apparent that the goal of the Obama administration is not to govern, but rule by edict. This again is a reflection of the desperation of President Obama and his liberal progressive disciples as November draws nearer. I find it ironic that Secretary Napolitano would not assist our State of Florida with ensuring the integrity of the voting process but she can make a unilateral decision about who can reside in America.

AUTaxMan
06-16-2012, 12:03 AM
Did I say I wanted that?

The U.S has no one to blame but ITSELF!

Employers put greed ahead of human decency and gave jobs to illegal immigrants fully knowing they were committing a CRIME!

Ever stop and actually think what would've happen if employers actually follow the rules?



I live in Florida.....when I was 19 I was looking for a summer job to help pay my college tuition.....of course it was tough to find a job but when I did find one I found myself in a small warehouse where the Employer was paying TERRIBLE wages.

I was working in the office, while many immigrents were in the warehouse working their BUTTS off earning $5.00/hour.

$5.00/hour!!!!!.....and this was in 2007!!!!

NO AMERICAN is going to work for those slave wages!!!


America......land of the exploited and exploiters!!!

$5 an hour is what the real market bears. More people would be employed in this country if we didn't have a minimum wage that forces employers to pay people more than they're worth.

But back to topic. Our king has once again exceeded his constitutional powers, and this time, obviously in an attempt to garner votes. it's truly scary how little he regards our constitution. thank goodness he only has a few more months in office.

11chaos
06-16-2012, 12:27 AM
Did I say I wanted that?

The U.S has no one to blame but ITSELF!

Employers put greed ahead of human decency and gave jobs to illegal immigrants fully knowing they were committing a CRIME!

Ever stop and actually think what would've happen if employers actually follow the rules?

I live in Florida.....when I was 19 I was looking for a summer job to help pay my college tuition.....of course it was tough to find a job but when I did find one I found myself in a small warehouse where the Employer was paying TERRIBLE wages.

I was working in the office, while many immigrents were in the warehouse working their BUTTS off earning $5.00/hour.

$5.00/hour!!!!!.....and this was in 2007!!!!

NO AMERICAN is going to work for those slave wages!!!


America......land of the exploited and exploiters!!!

Did you report it? THat is if they were illegal.

They (meaning anyone) took the job and are supporting their families thru honest labor. Get off your high horse.

Look you don't appear to have a very high opinion of America, so why don't you leave and find your utopia.

JustAlex
06-16-2012, 01:37 AM
Did you report it? THat is if they were illegal.

They (meaning anyone) took the job and are supporting their families thru honest labor. Get off your high horse.

No, I didn't report it.

Because it would greatly affect BOTH parties.


Look you don't appear to have a very high opinion of America, so why don't you leave and find your utopia.

No, I don't have a high opinion of a country that spends billions of dollars killing people overseas, frightening it's own citizens, and blaming EVERYONE for it's own mistakes.

HOWEVER, whether I like it or not, this is my Home and I don't run away from my own home just because things are going bad.


I love how conservatives always tell us (liberals) to "GET OUT" just because we're critical of the U.S.


We have very good reasons to be critical and some of us ARE trying to find a solution.

MadMan1978
06-16-2012, 07:57 AM
another point on all this...


Ironically, the Obama administration's new rule would accomplish many of the same goals of a limited version of the DREAM Act proposed by Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio, which stops short of offering young illegal immigrants citizenship, but gives them a type of legal status. Romney said he was considering the proposal (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/24/11369682-first-thoughts-romneys-half-pivot?lite)from Rubio, a popular choice of conservatives to round out the Republican ticket as a vice presidential nominee.

tpeichel
06-16-2012, 08:40 AM
John Yoo on executive overreach:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/303038/executive-overreach-john-yoo#

Under Section 3 of the Constitution, the president has the duty to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.” This provision was included to make sure that the president could not simply choose, as the British King had, to cancel legislation simply because he disagreed with it. President Obama cannot refuse to carry out a congressional statute simply because he thinks it advances the wrong policy. To do so violates the very core of his constitutional duties.

tpeichel
06-16-2012, 08:51 AM
I love how everyone is acting like he just granted amnesty to every illegal immigrant in America.

The requirements



Can anyone explain to me how granting amnesty to those who were previously illegal, who with tax payers money received an American education and keeping them in America, instead of deporting these educated law abiding citizens is a bad idea? For a lot these people America is the only home they have known, why send them away after all this time.

Besides, now we can tax them.

1) There are not enough jobs as it is, so if they get employed it will simply mean we have to support other U.S. Citizens that are unemployed.
2) 800,000 qualify now, but each year more and more will meet the requirements.
3) Many people came years ago hoping for this exact result for their children, so of course this will simply encourage more illegal aliens to cross
the border
4) The President pisses on the Constitution when he unilaterally ignores the law of the land because he can't make the case to the American people to pass the Dream Act. He is not the King.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-16-2012, 09:50 AM
another point on all this...

The problem lies in the way King Obama did this , Rubio/Romney might have been thinking along these lines however they would have done it the right way , with that thing called approval from congress you know the legal way not a dictators way .

MadMan1978
06-16-2012, 09:57 AM
But again it was FINE when Old Ronnie did the same very thing...

You cant have it both ways....

tpeichel
06-16-2012, 09:58 AM
The problem lies in the way King Obama did this , Rubio/Romney might have been thinking along these lines however they would have done it the right way , with that thing called approval from congress you know the legal way not a dictators way .

True, but it still would have been the wrong thing to do. It's one of the reasons Romney was never truly embraced by Conservatives.

If it weren't for President Obama being so bad, a lot of Conservative may have stayed home because of their unhappiness with Romney.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-16-2012, 10:02 AM
True, but it still would have been the wrong thing to do. It's one of the reasons Romney was never truly embraced by Conservatives.

If it weren't for President Obama being so bad, a lot of Conservative may have stayed home because of their unhappiness with Romney.

I agree , I am no fan of Romney's but he has to be a million times better that Obama.Atleast Romney understands how our country works, Grew up here all his life and has respect for our country unlike the King Obama ..

INTIMADATOR2007
06-16-2012, 10:12 AM
But again it was FINE when Old Ronnie did the same very thing...

You cant have it both ways....

Ronnie's plan didn't work either .And he went about it the right way with congress approval .His bill was brought up for votes , no one can vote on Obama's back door trick.

tpeichel
06-16-2012, 10:14 AM
But again it was FINE when Old Ronnie did the same very thing...

You cant have it both ways....

If a policy is a failure, why repeat it? The Republicans tried to compromise and it failed. Why is it logical to continue to do the same thing when the evidence does not support the position?

After all, the Democrats fought the Civil Rights act tooth and nail. Why don't they continue to fight against that law now?

In this age where globalization and automation are decreasing the available jobs in America, we can no longer afford to import labor to compete with our unemployed citizens.

The only sound policy at this point is to enforce the existing immigration laws.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-16-2012, 10:17 AM
What about the timing of this also , The supreme court will rule on arizona's SB1070 next week , Any thoughts on this.

bud7562
06-16-2012, 10:30 AM
After years of claiming that he did not have the authority to grant amnesty without Congressional approval, President Obama changed course and is now claiming the authority to enact an amnesty program for illegal aliens.

Push back was immediate as the President was interrupted in the Rose Garden by a reporter asking if this was good for American Workers? thats how he gets votes to stay in. he dont care about american worker, he say one thing then do something else????

11chaos
06-16-2012, 11:03 AM
Ah, so when it's convenient you'll let it slide. Nice, make sure you let the Killer go to next time you see that her kill someone.


No, I didn't report it.

Because it would greatly affect BOTH parties.

No, I don't have a high opinion of a country that spends billions of dollars killing people overseas, frightening it's own citizens, and blaming EVERYONE for it's own mistakes.

HOWEVER, whether I like it or not, this is my Home and I don't run away from my own home just because things are going bad.

I love how conservatives always tell us (liberals) to "GET OUT" just because we're critical of the U.S.

We have very good reasons to be critical and some of us ARE trying to find a solution.

You're a child who has the audacity to say we are killing people for the sheer hell of it by the sound of it. Do you even remember 9/11? Are you privy to all the intelligence that comes out, no? Didn't think so. By the way, you're welcome for your freedoms such as your ability to speak / type like you do without fear of reprisal.

I'm not a conservative, I just think you are a child.

Really you're here to save the world. Have you ever even left the United States for some place where life isn't supplied to you on a platter? Where life is cheap? Again, your views appear to be that of a Man-child

theonedru
06-16-2012, 01:28 PM
How about we keep all of these Illegal aliens here that want to work and make something of themselves and instead in their place we deport the lazy Americans who refuse to contribute to the countries well being...

INTIMADATOR2007
06-16-2012, 01:39 PM
How about we keep all of these Illegal aliens here that want to work and make something of themselves and instead in their place we deport the lazy Americans who refuse to contribute to the countries well being...

I like it !

bud7562
06-16-2012, 02:02 PM
How about we keep all of these Illegal aliens here that want to work and make something of themselves and instead in their place we deport the lazy Americans who refuse to contribute to the countries well being... like the walfare poeple,most of them can work???

tpeichel
06-16-2012, 02:45 PM
How about get rid of the competition from illegal laborers to drive up wages and at the same time decrease the benefits the government provides for those that don't work so that it is more advantageous for someone to go out and find a job than staying home, watching TV and collecting benefits?

While we're at it, we can slap a slave wage/environmental destruction tariff on Chinese goods to even the playing field for American manufacturers and drop the corporate tax rate to 0%. Do that and watch the manufacturing jobs flood back to the United States.

If we're going to have a consumerism society, let's at least consume our own crap.

jlzinck
06-16-2012, 08:53 PM
Nice to see Alex has found a home where he can let his liberal flag fly. <br />
I believe it was Churchill who said (paraphrasing here) If you are young and conservative you have no heart, if you are old...

JustAlex
06-16-2012, 09:23 PM
You're a child who has the audacity to say we are killing people for the sheer hell of it by the sound of it. Do you even remember 9/11? Are you privy to all the intelligence that comes out, no? Didn't think so. By the way, you're welcome for your freedoms such as your ability to speak / type like you do without fear of reprisal.

I'm not a conservative, I just think you are a child.

Really you're here to save the world. Have you ever even left the United States for some place where life isn't supplied to you on a platter? Where life is cheap? Again, your views appear to be that of a Man-child

Of course you had to bring up 9/11....we still use 9/11 as the biggest device to JUSTIFY killing innocent people in the Middle East, having THOUSANDS of humans in Gitmo with no DUE PROCESS, and torturing who knows how many people.

I HAVE LEFT the U.S I've been to Central America, and South America I'm not complaining about our lifestyle!


Nice to see Alex has found a home where he can let his liberal flag fly.

Yeah, And I intend to stay and fight ALL the conservatives, religious and anti-science members with LOGIC and REASON!

BTW jlzinck, I hope you get to come around more often and debate with me and the other members, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. :):


Along with his apporving of Gay Marriage, which he has ALLWAYS been for and this act it smells of despair and panic.

You're from Massachusetts and you're against gay marriage???!?!?!?!?

WHAT?

AUTaxMan
06-16-2012, 10:02 PM
Yeah, And I intend to stay and fight ALL the conservatives, religious and anti-science members with LOGIC and REASON!

I understand the fighting part, but when are you going to start employing the logic and/or reason?

JustAlex
06-16-2012, 10:07 PM
I understand the fighting part, but when are you going to start employing the logic and/or reason?

Go look at my Evolution thread.

Go look at the Gay marriage thread.

Go look at ANY religious thread.


To be honest, my strengths are not in politics, because I believe both parties are so BAD, although the GOP is much, much worse!



When you let go of your dogma, and think about what religion really is...then you're using logic!

When you look at the evidence by science and start thinking critically, then you're using reason!


You may not like what I say, but I DO use reason and logic.

tpeichel
06-16-2012, 10:10 PM
I understand the fighting part, but when are you going to start employing the logic and/or reason?

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSs_G9XWgUQqSZt02VbF83fJCw-r6izj98lGePAmtXDimMipcJO (http://www.google.com/imgres?start=76&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=MTl&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1366&bih=665&addh=36&tbm=isch&tbnid=YyvI-wdrImWP3M:&imgrefurl=http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D20407&docid=_F98sWcXR_6hBM&imgurl=http://a21.idata.over-blog.com/509x305/3/85/21/30/Homero-Doh-.jpg&w=509&h=294&ei=iDzdT76RI5D16AH_98mMCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=730&vpy=11&dur=1794&hovh=171&hovw=296&tx=132&ty=90&sig=114275603959456851036&page=4&tbnh=113&tbnw=195&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:76,i:17)

AUTaxMan
06-16-2012, 11:42 PM
Go look at my Evolution thread.

Go look at the Gay marriage thread.

Go look at ANY religious thread.


To be honest, my strengths are not in politics, because I believe both parties are so BAD, although the GOP is much, much worse!



When you let go of your dogma, and think about what religion really is...then you're using logic!

When you look at the evidence by science and start thinking critically, then you're using reason!


You may not like what I say, but I DO use reason and logic.

You cannot claim to be reasonable when your arguments are based on emotion and not fact. For example, "I believe both parties are so BAD, although the GOP is much, much worse!" is not an argument, it is an opinion, and it is based on no stated facts.

JustAlex
06-17-2012, 12:08 AM
You cannot claim to be reasonable when your arguments are based on emotion and not fact. For example, "I believe both parties are so BAD, although the GOP is much, much worse!" is not an argument, it is an opinion, and it is based on no stated facts.

Agreed!

That's why I said that Politics is NOT my strength.

If you notice, I tend to stay away from politics, sure, I'll respond to things like abortion and gay marriage because those are social issues.

But this topic for example is tough, I have no facts or evidence to argue that amnesty is a good thing.

However, I don't necessarily think amnesty is all that bad, after all WE did create this problem.


Anyways, you're right, I do get emotional on topics such as this, although I could say the same for most conservatives here.

Either way, I'll defend science with all my might, that's where I excell at, I have spent the last 3 years studying evolution, the big bang theory, and various other scientific theories of our origins.

To be perfectly honest, I still consider myself a beginner, there is so much to learn, and so little time....but I absolutely love the way science makes sense.

Aikman_TheGreat
06-17-2012, 04:25 AM
Maybe now they will have social security numbers and pay taxes, so that the rest of us dont have to pay extra taxes for all of them to live, and maybe hard workers like me can have social security left over when i'm ready to retire (I'm only 25).

Star_Cards
06-18-2012, 12:51 PM
I love how everyone is acting like he just granted amnesty to every illegal immigrant in America.

The requirements



Can anyone explain to me how granting amnesty to those who were previously illegal, who with tax payers money received an American education and keeping them in America, instead of deporting these educated law abiding citizens is a bad idea? For a lot these people America is the only home they have known, why send them away after all this time.

Besides, now we can tax them.

I haven't looking into this much more than seeing the headline, but if these are the requirements I really have no issue with it. I see it as a good thing. I say if they are a positive contributor to society and will pay into the tax system they benefit from it's fine by me.

Star_Cards
06-18-2012, 01:02 PM
first off let me say I'm glad your daughter was not killed. Hopefully she able to fully recover. <br />
<br />
I can see where your experience would influence your opinions on illegals, but it seems that this...

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 01:30 PM
I haven't looking into this much more than seeing the headline, but if these are the requirements I really have no issue with it. I see it as a good thing. I say if they are a positive contributor to society and will pay into the tax system they benefit from it's fine by me.

They estimate that 800,000 will qualify now and more and more illegals will qualify as time goes on. The work visa can be renewed indefinitely.

Also, I'm concerned that even people that don't qualify will apply for the work permit and will get rubber-stamped just like in the 1986 amnesty.

How many citizens will continue to be unemployed because illegals on work visas were hired instead?

How long will the American public allow our government to just ignore the laws whenever they feel like it or it is politically expedient? What happened to this?

President Obama said that he can’t just “waive away the laws that Congress put in place” and that “the president doesn’t have the authority to simply ignore Congress and say, ‘We’re not going to enforce the laws that you’ve passed.’”

But that is exactly what he did.

Star_Cards
06-18-2012, 02:25 PM
They estimate that 800,000 will qualify now and more and more illegals will qualify as time goes on. The work visa can be renewed indefinitely.

Also, I'm concerned that even people that don't qualify will apply for the work permit and will get rubber-stamped just like in the 1986 amnesty.

How many citizens will continue to be unemployed because illegals on work visas were hired instead?

How long will the American public allow our government to just ignore the laws whenever they feel like it or it is politically expedient? What happened to this?

President Obama said that he can’t just “waive away the laws that Congress put in place” and that “the president doesn’t have the authority to simply ignore Congress and say, ‘We’re not going to enforce the laws that you’ve passed.’”

But that is exactly what he did.

In my opinion the best solution to the illegal immigrant issue is to process them and get them paying into the tax system that they typically drain without paying in. I completely understand the issue of the the current laws of them being here illegally and that it's not the right way to do things if you want to be in the U.S. However, at this point, the feasibility of deporting the millions of illegal immigrants that are in this country is pretty much impossible under the current laws. When you have babies being born as american citizens to illegal immigrants there's really no good way to make them leave. Sure we can make the parents leave, but to my knowledge their offspring born in the U.S. can't be deported. There's no way the U.S. government would or should dismantle those families and leave the kids to be lost in the system.

Even if they could deport all of those people, the numbers are just too staggering. To me the obvious best scenario is to at least have these people working and paying into the tax system.

I'll add that when I speak of this it does not include illegal immigrants who are involved in criminal activity.

AUTaxMan
06-18-2012, 03:36 PM
In my opinion the best solution to the illegal immigrant issue is to process them and get them paying into the tax system that they typically drain without paying in. I completely understand the issue of the the current laws of them being here illegally and that it's not the right way to do things if you want to be in the U.S. However, at this point, the feasibility of deporting the millions of illegal immigrants that are in this country is pretty much impossible under the current laws. When you have babies being born as american citizens to illegal immigrants there's really no good way to make them leave. Sure we can make the parents leave, but to my knowledge their offspring born in the U.S. can't be deported. There's no way the U.S. government would or should dismantle those families and leave the kids to be lost in the system.

Even if they could deport all of those people, the numbers are just too staggering. To me the obvious best scenario is to at least have these people working and paying into the tax system.

I'll add that when I speak of this it does not include illegal immigrants who are involved in criminal activity.

The anchor baby is one of the keys to immigration. IMO, we need to do away with it. I believe we are one of the few countries in the world with such a law.

Star_Cards
06-18-2012, 03:51 PM
The anchor baby is one of the keys to immigration. IMO, we need to do away with it. I believe we are one of the few countries in the world with such a law.

I don't agree with that law, but it's been on the books for some time, I'd assume. That's a lot of baby born to illegals who have become citizens of the united states. Because of that, we can't really deport the parents of these children.

AUTaxMan
06-18-2012, 04:03 PM
I don't agree with that law, but it's been on the books for some time, I'd assume. That's a lot of baby born to illegals who have become citizens of the united states. Because of that, we can't really deport the parents of these children.

You could make it prospectively applicable though.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 04:44 PM
The requirements

Under the administration plan, illegal immigrants will be immune from deportation if they were brought to the United States before they turned 16 and are younger than 30, have been in the country for at least five continuous years, have no criminal history, graduated from a U.S. high school or earned a GED, or served in the military. They also can apply for a work permit that will be good for two years with no limits on how many times it can be renewed.
Oh, I'm SOOOOOOO Glad you posted this!!!

HEY CONSERVATIVES!!!

What do you see in here that you are so against?!?!?!?


Oh....you guys don't like Illegals no matter what.....correct?

Yep....that's what I thought!

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 04:48 PM
Illegal immigrants taking jobs from citizens that are unemployed.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 04:59 PM
In my opinion the best solution to the illegal immigrant issue is to process them and get them paying into the tax system that they typically drain without paying in. I completely understand the issue of the the current laws of them being here illegally and that it's not the right way to do things if you want to be in the U.S. However, at this point, the feasibility of deporting the millions of illegal immigrants that are in this country is pretty much impossible under the current laws. When you have babies being born as american citizens to illegal immigrants there's really no good way to make them leave. Sure we can make the parents leave, but to my knowledge their offspring born in the U.S. can't be deported. There's no way the U.S. government would or should dismantle those families and leave the kids to be lost in the system.

Even if they could deport all of those people, the numbers are just too staggering. To me the obvious best scenario is to at least have these people working and paying into the tax system.

I'll add that when I speak of this it does not include illegal immigrants who are involved in criminal activity.

Take away the incentive for being here, which is the ability to work, and they'll be much more likely to return from where they came. Send back one member of the family and maybe others will follow, especially if job prospects are bleak. With this law we are simply providing incentive to stay as now the work opportunities will have expanded greatly.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 05:00 PM
Illegal immigrants taking jobs from citizens that are unemployed.
Really?

You're going South Park on us?

THEY TOOK YOUR JERB?


An American that has A LOT more money and opportunities than an immigrant is complaining that they took your jobs?

You realize this is a bad argument, right?

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 05:22 PM
Oh, I'm SOOOOOOO Glad you posted this!!!

HEY CONSERVATIVES!!!

What do you see in here that you are so against?!?!?!?


Oh....you guys don't like Illegals no matter what.....correct?

Yep....that's what I thought!

Let me ask you, why do you think illegal immigration is so great?

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 05:30 PM
Really?

You're going South Park on us?

THEY TOOK YOUR JERB?


An American that has A LOT more money and opportunities than an immigrant is complaining that they took your jobs?

You realize this is a bad argument, right?

You claim to be all about logic, so answer these questions:

You have 100 jobs and 110 qualified citizens so 10 people are unemployed. Now you add 10 illegals that are qualified so now you have 120 people qualified for the 100 positions.

1) What are the positive consequences of 10 additional illegals competing for the 100 jobs?
2) What are the negative consequences of 10 additional illegals competing for the 100 jobs?

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 05:37 PM
Let me ask you, why do you think illegal immigration is so great?

What?

When did I say that?

I've been saying throughout the thread that the majority of the fault lies with Americans.

Their greed allowed millions of illegals to come to the U.S to work for slave wages (which unfortunately is still better than what they get in their native countries), if they had followed the rules and not hired ANY illegals then we would NOT be in this problem......Plain and simple.

So how do you fix the problem....well, it's a very tough fix, Obama is laying out a plan to allow YOUNG people to be able to stay and properly contribute to the U.S by paying taxes, serve in the military, go to college, and help their communities.


What part of this are you against???

AUTaxMan
06-18-2012, 05:40 PM
What?

When did I say that?

I've been saying throughout the thread that the majority of the fault lies with Americans.

Their greed allowed millions of illegals to come to the U.S to work for slave wages (which unfortunately is still better than what they get in their native countries), if they had followed the rules and not hired ANY illegals then we would NOT be in this problem......Plain and simple.

So how do you fix the problem....well, it's a very tough fix, Obama is laying out a plan to allow YOUNG people to be able to stay and properly contribute to the U.S by paying taxes, serve in the military, go to college, and help their communities.


What part of this are you against???

Obama is not actually laying out a plan at all. He is acting like a king, declaring by fiat which laws he wishes to enforce and which ones he does not.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 05:41 PM
You claim to be all about logic, so answer these questions:

You have 100 jobs and 110 qualified citizens so 10 people are unemployed. Now you add 10 illegals that are qualified so now you have 120 people qualified for the 100 positions.

1) What are the positive consequences of 10 additional illegals competing for the 100 jobs?
2) What are the negative consequences of 10 additional illegals competing for the 100 jobs?

Wow, you're using such a simplistic problem when MOST Americans have such an advantage over illegals.

MOST illegals don't have a proper education, don't know English, and don't have the proper skills for the majority of jobs which Americans are willing to participate in.

You're telling me that YOU and I can't find a proper job with our skills, education, and overall knowledge.......but you're worried a Mexican that can't even talk English is going to "Steal" your job?

Really?

Sorry, not buying it!

Dunndeal
06-18-2012, 05:46 PM
JustAlex...Post your address and I think we can get enough people to get you out of the USA if you hate it that much. Matter of fact just go to the Mexican border and walk over. No one seems to mind. If its so BAD here,why do they come here? I think I know,free collage,free food stamps,free medical,free housing and you ™™™™™ that they only get $5.00 per hour? Hell I'd do that if I could get all of that free. I'm 57 and been out of work for 3 years now. Ol I take that back I did work at China-mart for 11 months 3rd shift and have seen it all. 1st of every month here they come getting there FREE stuff. You'll get your way. They say by 2050 Mexicans will out number other races 2 to 1. I just thank God(Yes I do belive in God) I won't be here to see it. My family had to wait to get into the USA the RIGHT way and we are FAR from rich.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 05:57 PM
What?

When did I say that?

I've been saying throughout the thread that the majority of the fault lies with Americans.

Their greed allowed millions of illegals to come to the U.S to work for slave wages (which unfortunately is still better than what they get in their native countries), if they had followed the rules and not hired ANY illegals then we would NOT be in this problem......Plain and simple.

So how do you fix the problem....well, it's a very tough fix, Obama is laying out a plan to allow YOUNG people to be able to stay and properly contribute to the U.S by paying taxes, serve in the military, go to college, and help their communities.


What part of this are you against???

It sure seems like you fall into the pro-imigration camp.

The Dream Act is basically the anchor baby argument all over because once you give illegals who are here "through no fault of their own" the right to stay, how can you possibly break up the families?

And Democrats love to trot out this ideal of the perfect Mexican immigrant, but anyone who lives in California knows this isn't true. This is a very illuminating perspective from someone on the front lines in California.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_2_do_we_want.html
To contrast the Selma I live in today with the Selma I grew up in will doubtless seem hopelessly nostalgic. But the point of the contrast is not merely that 40 years ago our community was only 40 or 50 percent Mexican, but rather that the immigrants then were mostly here legally. Crime was far rarer: the hit-and-run accidents, auto theft, drug manufacturing and sale, murders, rapes, and armed robberies that are now customary were then nearly nonexistent. Fights that now end in semi-automatic-weapon fire were settled with knives then.
I used to worry over the theft of a tractor battery. Yet in the last decade, I have run off at gunpoint three gang members trying to force their way into our house at 3 am. Last year, four patrol cars—accompanied by a helicopter whirling overhead—chased drug dealers in hot pursuit through our driveway. One suspect escaped and turned up two hours later hiding behind a hedge on our lawn, vainly seeking sanctuary from a sure prison term. When a carload of thieves tried to steal oranges from our yard, I soon found myself outmanned and outgunned—and decided that 100 pounds of pilfered fruit is not worth your life.

It is a schizophrenic existence, living at illegal immigration’s intersection. Each week I pick up trash, dirty diapers, even sofas and old beds dumped in our orchard by illegal aliens—only to call a Mexican-American sheriff who empathizes when I show him the evidence of Spanish names and addresses on bills and letters scattered among the trash. So far I have caught more than 15 illegal dumpers, all Mexican, in the act. In the last 20 years, four cars piloted by intoxicated illegal aliens have veered off the road into our vineyard, causing thousands of dollars in unrecompensed damage. The drivers simply limped away and disappeared. The police sighed, “No license, no insurance, no registration” (“the three noes”), and towed out their cars.

Yet I also walk through vineyards at 7 AM in the fog and see whole families from Mexico, hard at work in the cold—while the native-born unemployed of all races will not—and cannot—prune a single vine. By natural selection, we are getting some of the most intelligent and industrious people in the world, people who have the courage to cross the border, the tenacity to stay—and, if not assimilated, the potential to cost the state far, far more than they can contribute.

And one more excerpt from the article:
There is a well-known cycle in California immigration. Young people between ages 15 and 30 arrive here illegally and for a while stay single. Over decades, many live hard and toil at menial jobs, earning perhaps $8 an hour, usually paid in cash, which is a bargain for everyone involved. Without state, federal, and payroll taxes, the worker earns the equivalent of a gross $10-an-hour rate, while the employer saves 30 percent in payroll contributions, audits, and paperwork—even as such cash payments force other Americans and legal immigrants to pay steeper taxes, in part to cover those who don’t pay. The immigrants work hard until their joints stiffen and their backs give out. By then their families are large. Their English stays perpetually poor; their education is still nonexistent, even as their IDs remain fraudulent.


Now, $8 per hour in California, rather than per week in Mexico, no longer seems such a bonanza, and they use their counterfeit documentation to get onto workers compensation, unemployment insurance, and state assistance to garner what their weary bodies can no longer earn. Meanwhile, they romanticize a distant Mexico while chastising an ever present America. And the second generation has learned how to live, spend, and consume as Americans, but not, like their fathers, to work and save as Mexicans. If rising crime rates, gang activity, and illegitimacy are any indication, many now resent, rather than sacrifice to escape, their poverty. And the rates are rising fast: for example, while 37 percent of all births to Hispanic immigrants are illegitimate, the illegitimacy rate among American-born Mexican mothers is 48 percent.

So why are you so sure that the 2nd generation illegal immigrants that we are allowing to stay are going to be such a positive force when the evidence seems to show otherwise? Here are some stats for families without fathers that I saw over the weekend.



Approximately 30% of all American children are born into single-parent homes, and for the black community, that figure is 68%;
Fatherless children are at a dramatically greater risk of drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, suicide, poor educational performance, teen pregnancy, and criminality, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Center for Health Statistics.
Over half of all children living with a single mother are living in poverty, a rate 5 to 6 times that of kids living with both parents;
Child abuse is significantly more likely to occur in single parent homes than in intact families;
63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes according to the U.S. Bureau of the Census;
72% of adolescent murderers grew up without fathers. 60% of America’s rapists grew up the same way according to a study by D. Cornell (et al.), in Behavioral Sciences and the Law;
63% of 1500 CEOs and human resource directors said it was not reasonable for a father to take a leave after the birth of a child;
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes according to the National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools;
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes according to a report in Criminal Justice & Behavior;
In single-mother families in the U.S. about 66% of young children live in poverty;
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes;
Children from low-income, two-parent families outperform students from high-income, single-parent homes. Almost twice as many high achievers come from two-parent homes as one-parent homes according to a study by the Charles F. Kettering Foundation.
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes according to a study by the Center for Disease Control;
Of all violent crimes against women committed by intimates about 65% were committed by either boy-friends or ex-husbands, compared with 9 % by husbands;
Girls living with non-natal fathers (boyfriends and stepfathers) are at higher risk for sexual abuse than girls living with natal fathers;
Daughters of single mothers are 53% more likely to marry asteenagers, 111% more likely to have children as teenagers, 164% more likely to have a premarital birth and 92% more likely to dissolve their own marriages.
A large survey conducted in the late 1980s found that about 20% of divorced fathers had not seen his children in the past year, and that fewer than 50% saw their children more than a few times a year.
Juvenile crime, the majority of which is committed by males, has increased six-fold since 1992;
In a longitudinal study of 1,197 fourth-grade students, researchers observed “greater levels of aggression in boys from mother-only households than from boys in mother-father households,” according to a study published in the Journal of Abnormal Child Psychology.
The Scholastic Aptitude Test scores have declined more than 70 points in the past two decades; children in single-parent families tend to score lower on standardized tests and to receive lower grades in school according to a Congressional Research Service Report.

Do we really want to import more of this into our society? Don't we have plenty of it here already?

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 06:00 PM
If its so BAD here,why do they come here?

I already answered this question.

Because the U.S has more resources and land.

Besides, I don't believe most Americans are bad.....but the ones with Power and money are far too corrupt and they are contributing more problems then solutions.

And I'm not just talking about the President and government, all these years that Rich employers hired an illegal for slave wages instead of hiring an American for a decent, honest wage.....those people are EVIL, those people are the DIRECT cause of this huge problem!


I think I know,free collage,free food stamps,free medical,free housing and you ™™™™™ that they only get $5.00 per hour? Hell I'd do that if I could get all of that free.

Free college?... WHAT?....Where?

Please tell me where, because I feel like an idiot for wasting the THOUSANDS of dollars I had to pay for MY education!

Most illegals will NEVER set foot into a college campus, seriously where do you people get this stuff from!

I recently graduated from College and I know very well how hard it is to get into college and pay for the classes, books, supplies, a laptop, housing, and the list goes on and on.

Illegals are NOT eligible to receive ANY government help since they are here ILLEGALLY!


They say by 2050 Mexicans will out number other races 2 to 1. I just thank God(Yes I do belive in God) I won't be here to see it. My family had to wait to get into the USA the RIGHT way and we are FAR from rich.

That's a LIE!

And Unless you have a trusty news source you're just making up numbers!

The ONLY thing I have heard is that by 2050 the U.S will be comprised of abut 40% hispanic and that includes hipanics from ALL latin american origin!

In other words, most of the these Hispanics are still AMERICAN!

Jesus, this post is filled with xenophobia...

AUTaxMan
06-18-2012, 06:04 PM
Illegals are NOT eligible to receive ANY government help since they are here ILLEGALLY!

say what? :twitch:

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 06:08 PM
say what? :twitch:

Are you also going to say insane things such as "Illegals get free college"?

Are you going to tell me that an illegal can get entitlement programs when you need a social security number and other documentation to get it?


You people (Conservatives, GOP) live in a world filled with conspiracies where illegals are coming to get you from your suburban houses.

You gotta be kidding me!

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 06:12 PM
Wow, you're using such a simplistic problem when MOST Americans have such an advantage over illegals.

MOST illegals don't have a proper education, don't know English, and don't have the proper skills for the majority of jobs which Americans are willing to participate in.

You're telling me that YOU and I can't find a proper job with our skills, education, and overall knowledge.......but you're worried a Mexican that can't even talk English is going to "Steal" your job?

Really?

Sorry, not buying it!

Now you're arguing that these illegals are uneducated poor? Why the hell do we need more uneducated poor in our country? How does that help us?

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 06:15 PM
Now you're arguing that these illegals are uneducated poor? Why the hell do we need more uneducated poor in our country? How does that help us?

Dude, I'm NOT saying to bring more people into this country!!!!

We have to find a solution for the ones that are ALREADY HERE!

What part of any of my posts have I said that I'm pro-open boarders!

I'M NOT!

I'm talking about the ones that are ALREADY HERE!


Of course YOU don't care if they get deported, most of these young illegals don't even remember living in Mexico, Central America, or South America.

They ARE Americans, this is the life they know.....but you don't care about that!

AUTaxMan
06-18-2012, 06:20 PM
Are you also going to say insane things such as "Illegals get free college"?

Are you going to tell me that an illegal can get entitlement programs when you need a social security number and other documentation to get it?


You people (Conservatives, GOP) live in a world filled with conspiracies where illegals are coming to get you from your suburban houses.

You gotta be kidding me!

No. You made a ridiculous and ignorant statement. There are countless studies easily found online documenting the billions our state and federal governments spend every year on uncompensated medical expenses, educational expenses, prison expenses, WIC, etc.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 06:27 PM
No. You made a ridiculous and ignorant statement. There are countless studies easily found online documenting the billions our state and federal governments spend every year on uncompensated medical expenses, educational expenses, prison expenses, WIC, etc.
Oh OK....and I'm sure 100% of the fault lies with illegal immigrants, right?

For example medical expenses, that has NOTHING to do with our terrible Health Care system, right?

Educational expenses?

I already said that there is NO WAY an illegal can enter a proper college, they have strict rules on who can get in, not to mention if you don't pay your classes then you can't stay, they don't care how smart you might be!

Until you can figure out a PROPER percentage of where these expenses are coming from, you have no rights to blame illegal immigrants for these problems.

BTW, just so you know, there are only about 10-15 million illegals in the U.S.

That's less than 10% of the Entire U.S population!!!

AUTaxMan
06-18-2012, 06:33 PM
Oh OK....and I'm sure 100% of the fault lies with illegal immigrants, right?

For example medical expenses, that has NOTHING to do with our terrible Health Care system, right?

Regardless of how inefficient our healthcare system is, if no illegals were using it, then the dollars spent on them would be zero. Instead, it is in the billions per year.


Educational expenses?

I already said that there is NO WAY an illegal can enter a proper college, they have strict rules on who can get in, not to mention if you don't pay your classes then you can't stay, they don't care how smart you might be!

Until you can figure out a PROPER percentage of where these expenses are coming from, you have no rights to blame illegal immigrants for these problems.

I am talking about public schools, free lunch programs, etc. California and Texas each spend over 4 billion a year on educating children of illegals (and I'm talking kids that weren't born in the US). Again, the studies are pretty easy to find. If you aren't interested in learning the facts, that is your problem.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 06:35 PM
Dude, I'm NOT saying to bring more people into this country!!!!

We have to find a solution for the ones that are ALREADY HERE!

What part of any of my posts have I said that I'm pro-open boarders!

I'M NOT!

I'm talking about the ones that are ALREADY HERE!


Of course YOU don't care if they get deported, most of these young illegals don't even remember living in Mexico, Central America, or South America.

They ARE Americans, this is the life they know.....but you don't care about that!

They are not Americans unless they were born here. If you are not a citizen, you should not be living here. It is illegal.

In the example I gave where illegals were competing against citizens for jobs you claimed that they weren't educated so they would not be competing against citizens, so I responded that we did not need more uneducated poor people.

Of the 1,000,000 work permits that President Obama hands out, some will be educated and competing for good jobs, while others will simply be like any other illegal immigrant jumping the border and working menial jobs.

One group will be taking jobs from citizens and potentially reaping the benefits of affirmative action, while the unskilled group will be competing for jobs with our poorest citizens and keeping wages low.

I'll ask again, what is the benefit of providing work visas to these illegals?

Dunndeal
06-18-2012, 06:42 PM
"Illegals are NOT eligible to receive ANY government help since they are here ILLEGALLY!"
Why don't you quite trying to smear the Conservatives you hate so much and start listening and watching YOUR demys for awhile. It was Harry Reid that said is his Fair Act that the illegals SHOULD get free collage. And don't tell me they don't get food stamps. As I said I work 3rd shift and EVERY 1st of the month they would start coming in around 11:00 PM and shop knowing that their FREE CARD did not go into affect until 12:00 AM on the 1st. I know of one Mexican that was here illegal and he laughed because he was using his fathers SS number and getting FREE food stamps & housing. I've had to use alot of my retirement (Non union) just to keep my family of 5 heads above water and paying 30% taxes I have to pay to get money out of my retirement goes for stuff like this. Just makes me mad.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 06:42 PM
I'll ask again, what is the benefit of providing work visas to these illegals?

What's your solution?

Let's hear it.....NO WAIT, I already know your solution!

GET OUT!!!

No matter the situation, no matter how long they have been living here, no matter that the fact is that there are potentially more than a million AMERICAN babies that are born from illegal parents (I don't care what you call them, they ARE Americans!).

Your solution is to round them up, and get them out of here!

Awesome!

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 06:48 PM
You Conservatives have ZERO heart!

Selfish, greedy, irresponsible, and cold-hearted!

And yet most of you worship a guy that defended the poor, took care of the down-trotted, and best of all put others ahead of himself.....he would NEVER say the things I read from you people.

Conservatives.....Christians?

Don't make me laugh.....Jesus would NEVER bless such a xenophobic, greedy, and selfish country.....NEVER!

boba
06-18-2012, 07:05 PM
You Conservatives have ZERO heart!

Selfish, greedy, irresponsible, and cold-hearted!

And yet most of you worship a guy that defended the poor, took care of the down-trotted, and best of all put others ahead of himself.....he would NEVER say the things I read from you people.

Conservatives.....Christians?

Don't make me laugh.....Jesus would NEVER bless such a xenophobic, greedy, and selfish country.....NEVER!


You have got to be kidding me. You realize these people are criminals?

You know, my grandparents came over legally, naturally they are against what Obama just put though. They did it the right way and sacrificed soooo much to be here. Are they selfish, greedy, irresponsible, and cold-hearted because they are against it? I love how you can just brand people with these names because you don't agree with them. There is a bunch of things I don't agree with you on that I could label you with these names about but I don't, mostly because I want to be a respectable member of this site. I know you don't care about that because you don't actually use this site for anything but arguing - bashing other members.

drtom2005
06-18-2012, 07:08 PM
John Yoo on executive overreach:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/303038/executive-overreach-john-yoo#

Under Section 3 of the Constitution, the president has the duty to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.” This provision was included to make sure that the president could not simply choose, as the British King had, to cancel legislation simply because he disagreed with it. President Obama cannot refuse to carry out a congressional statute simply because he thinks it advances the wrong policy. To do so violates the very core of his constitutional duties.

I'm sorry to tell you this but George W. Bush greatly expanded the power of executive orders. If you do not like it, blame him. The Congress at the time allowed him to do this. Obama is just keeping up the tradition. :))) Personally, I do not like the President circumventing the Congress, but the Congress needs to pass legislation to stop it and override an almost certain presidential veto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/orders/

I know the complains I'm going to hear. We were at a time of war, and that is the reason Bush signed so many. If you look closer, a significant portion have nothing to do with the Iraq or Afgan wars.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 07:21 PM
You have got to be kidding me. You realize these people are criminals?

You know, my grandparents came over legally, naturally they are against what Obama just put though. They did it the right way and sacrificed soooo much to be here. Are they selfish, greedy, irresponsible, and cold-hearted because they are against it? I love how you can just brand people with these names because you don't agree with them. There is a bunch of things I don't agree with you on that I could label you with these names about but I don't, mostly because I want to be a respectable member of this site. I know you don't care about that because you don't actually use this site for anything but arguing - bashing other members.

So what is your solution?

Should we kick out EVERY single illegal, including kids that have been here their entire life?

Are you going to punish kids for what their parents did?

How is this NOT a cold-hearted move?


Because every time I have this discussion with conservatives they have ZERO solutions.

If you have any GOOD solutions, I would love to hear it...

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 08:11 PM
What's your solution?

Let's hear it.....NO WAIT, I already know your solution!

GET OUT!!!

No matter the situation, no matter how long they have been living here, no matter that the fact is that there are potentially more than a million AMERICAN babies that are born from illegal parents (I don't care what you call them, they ARE Americans!).

Your solution is to round them up, and get them out of here!

Awesome!

I'll ask the question once more, what do you see as the benefit of allowing illegal aliens to stay in the country?

drtom2005
06-18-2012, 08:15 PM
I'll ask the question once more, what do you see as the benefit of allowing illegal aliens to stay in the country?

Lower food cost. Do not tell me an American is going to pick fruit at $1 a bushel. If you are willing to pay many dollars for food, I'm down. I just do not think most American families are.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 08:35 PM
I'll ask the question once more, what do you see as the benefit of allowing illegal aliens to stay in the country?

They can pay taxes, serve the military, and contribute to their communities in a positive way.

Best of all AMERICAN kids won't be deported to a foreign country.

I don't care if their parents are illegal, the kids that were born here are 100% American and they deserve to stay in their country.


Now, I'll ask YOU.....what solutions do you have?

Or are you just going to tell me that we should kick out EVERY SINGLE illegal regardless of their situation.


C'mon, make me eat my own words, tell me that you actually have a heart and you wouldn't support such a cold-hearted move as to destroy families and send AMERICAN kids to a country they have never seen.

Or are you going to prove me right...

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 08:36 PM
Lower food cost. Do not tell me an American is going to pick fruit at $1 a bushel. If you are willing to pay many dollars for food, I'm down. I just do not think most American families are.

Cost for some food, but only those that must be hand-picked, would certainly rise. The cost would be inconsequential to the other costs for illegals:



local, state, and Federal governments services
education
healthcare
fraud from using illegal documentation to procure other government services
costs of incarceration and crime by illegals

Think about the costs from my earlier post when the 2nd generation no longer has the work ethic of the parents as well.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 08:37 PM
I'm sorry to tell you this but George W. Bush greatly expanded the power of executive orders. If you do not like it, blame him. The Congress at the time allowed him to do this. Obama is just keeping up the tradition. :))) Personally, I do not like the President circumventing the Congress, but the Congress needs to pass legislation to stop it and override an almost certain presidential veto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/orders/

I know the complains I'm going to hear. We were at a time of war, and that is the reason Bush signed so many. If you look closer, a significant portion have nothing to do with the Iraq or Afgan wars.

I agree with you on this.

drtom2005
06-18-2012, 08:55 PM
Cost for some food, but only those that must be hand-picked, would certainly rise. The cost would be inconsequential to the other costs for illegals:



local, state, and Federal governments services
education
healthcare
fraud from using illegal documentation to procure other government services
costs of incarceration and crime by illegals
Think about the costs from my earlier post when the 2nd generation no longer has the work ethic of the parents as well.

The costs would shift to protecting our borders and enforcing immigration laws. The way I see it, we pay either way. I'll take my cheap strawberries.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 09:15 PM
The costs would shift to protecting our borders and enforcing immigration laws. The way I see it, we pay either way. I'll take my cheap strawberries.

At least that would be providing jobs to citizens.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 09:18 PM
The Silence is DEAFENING!

I'm now seeing that I truly was RIGHT!

No one will respond to my comment.....because the solution from conservatives is to deport every single illegal regardless of their situation!


And yet, when I present the FACT that many "illegals" are actually 100% American kids (To be "American" the only thing you need to be is born in America) will be deported to a a country they've never seen......Conservatives DO NOT want to publicly say that they support such an atrocity!

AUTaxMan
06-18-2012, 09:39 PM
The Silence is DEAFENING!

I'm now seeing that I truly was RIGHT!

No one will respond to my comment.....because the solution from conservatives is to deport every single illegal regardless of their situation!


And yet, when I present the FACT that many "illegals" are actually 100% American kids (To be "American" the only thing you need to be is born in America) will be deported to a a country they've never seen......Conservatives DO NOT want to publicly say that they support such an atrocity!

nobody is talking about deporting americans. we are talking about people who were not born here.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 09:42 PM
The Silence is DEAFENING!

I'm now seeing that I truly was RIGHT!

No one will respond to my comment.....because the solution from conservatives is to deport every single illegal regardless of their situation!


And yet, when I present the FACT that many "illegals" are actually 100% American kids (To be "American" the only thing you need to be is born in America) will be deported to a a country they've never seen......Conservatives DO NOT want to publicly say that they support such an atrocity!

Maybe the fourth time will be a charm. What do you see as the benefits of allowing illegal immigrants to stay in our country?

To answer your question, I support a combination of border enforcement, deportation, e-verification, and stiff penalties for companies that hire illegal labor. However, I don't support deporting citizens.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-18-2012, 09:44 PM
justalex...post your address and i think we can get enough people to get you out of the usa if you hate it that much. Matter of fact just go to the mexican border and walk over. No one seems to mind. If its so bad here,why do they come here? I think i know,free collage,free food stamps,free medical,free housing and you ™™™™™ that they only get $5.00 per hour? Hell i'd do that if i could get all of that free. I'm 57 and been out of work for 3 years now. Ol i take that back i did work at china-mart for 11 months 3rd shift and have seen it all. 1st of every month here they come getting there free stuff. You'll get your way. They say by 2050 mexicans will out number other races 2 to 1. I just thank god(yes i do belive in god) i won't be here to see it. My family had to wait to get into the usa the right way and we are far from rich.

+1

drtom2005
06-18-2012, 09:56 PM
At least that would be providing jobs to citizens.
At what cost? Civil liberties, of course. Any time law enforcement increases our liberties decrease. Too much for me. Remember the Patriot Act. What other laws would the government pass to "protect" us?

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 09:58 PM
nobody is talking about deporting americans. we are talking about people who were not born here.

OK, so if a child of 10 years was born in the U.S and BOTH his parents are illegal....

What do you do?

What about a young kid of 17 years old, who came illegally when he was 3 years old.....this kid knows nothing more than the U.S, he doesn't remember his birth country and he is fluent in English and is smart enough to go to college.

What do you do?


What about a 25 year old who has been in the U.S for 10+ years and works modestly, has NEVER committed a crime other than coming here illegally, and wants to serve in the military?

What do you do?

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 10:02 PM
Maybe the fourth time will be a charm. What do you see as the benefits of allowing illegal immigrants to stay in our country
I already answered your question....look in the previous page.


To answer your question, I support a combination of border enforcement, deportation, e-verification, and stiff penalties for companies that hire illegal labor. However, I don't support deporting citizens.

Dude, that's MY answer as well.

And yet here we are disagreeing on everything.

How can we BOTH have the same answer and yet we can't see eye to eye?

BTW, I only support deportation to violent/drug criminals.

Star_Cards
06-18-2012, 10:36 PM
Maybe the fourth time will be a charm. What do you see as the benefits of allowing illegal immigrants to stay in our country?

To answer your question, I support a combination of border enforcement, deportation, e-verification, and stiff penalties for companies that hire illegal labor. However, I don't support deporting citizens.

I missed a lot of this thread it looks like, but wanted to answer your question from my opinion.

Obviously it's not the best case scenario to have illegal immigrants here. I think at this point due to citizenship of offspring from illegals and the sheer amount of illegals here and the cost and depth of deporting all of them if they didn't have offspring with citizenship integrating them into tax paying members of society is the best way to go. My main issue with illegal immigrants is the fact that they use the systems that our tax dollars provide but many do not pay into the pool. If they are documented and pay their taxes is the main issue with illegal immigrants.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 10:37 PM
At what cost? Civil liberties, of course. Any time law enforcement increases our liberties decrease. Too much for me. Remember the Patriot Act. What other laws would the government pass to "protect" us?

Not sure we need to be concerned about the civil liberties of illegal immigrants trying to cross the border or illegal aliens trying to work here.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 10:43 PM
OK, so if a child of 10 years was born in the U.S and BOTH his parents are illegal....

What do you do? Deport the parents, I'm sure they would take their child with them.

What about a young kid of 17 years old, who came illegally when he was 3 years old.....this kid knows nothing more than the U.S, he doesn't remember his birth country and he is fluent in English and is smart enough to go to college.

What do you do? Deport, the parents would go with them back to their country.


What about a 25 year old who has been in the U.S for 10+ years and works modestly, has NEVER committed a crime other than coming here illegally, and wants to serve in the military?

What do you do? I don't like the idea of trading citizenship for military service, but this is the least objectionable of the scenarios.



See my bold responses.

drtom2005
06-18-2012, 10:45 PM
Not sure we need to be concerned about the civil liberties of illegal immigrants trying to cross the border or illegal aliens trying to work here.

I think you are missing my point. Our liberties will get restricted, not the just the illegals. Americans will get searched more at the border. I guess people would support scanners like in airports. Drones flying over the border(they can read your newspaper in your hand). Border patrol cops with almost unlimted power. Possibly decreasing you right to protest on either side of the issue. Raiding homes with only limited information of having illegals. More wire-tapping in the search. At times of war/protection, the governement takes more of our rights. It happens all of the time. I'm not willing to open a Pandora's Box of other ways for the government to take liberties. Do not give them the chance to do it.

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 10:58 PM
I think you are missing my point. Our liberties will get restricted, not the just the illegals. Americans will get searched more at the border. I guess people would support scanners like in airports. Drones flying over the border(they can read your newspaper in your hand). Border patrol cops with almost unlimted power. Possibly decreasing you right to protest on either side of the issue. Raiding homes with only limited information of having illegals. More wire-tapping in the search. At times of war/protection, the governement takes more of our rights. It happens all of the time. I'm not willing to open a Pandora's Box of other ways for the government to take liberties. Do not give them the chance to do it.

I have no problem with stricter border enforcement, but I do agree that no-knock raids on any sort are a very bad idea.

boba
06-18-2012, 11:05 PM
The Silence is DEAFENING!

I'm now seeing that I truly was RIGHT!

No one will respond to my comment.....because the solution from conservatives is to deport every single illegal regardless of their situation!


And yet, when I present the FACT that many "illegals" are actually 100% American kids (To be "American" the only thing you need to be is born in America) will be deported to a a country they've never seen......Conservatives DO NOT want to publicly say that they support such an atrocity!


Sorry, some people don't spend most of their free time arguing on the Internet.

It's obviously not practical to send all of the children back.

Their parents came over ILLEGALLY SO THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS. The government should not give them benefits and it should be illegal for the to WORK HERE.

Their parents made a bad decision to break the law and they have to deal with the repercussions. Coming over illegally should not be ENCOURAGED.

I thought I would speak your language with the caps and bolds :winking0071:

Rockman
06-18-2012, 11:10 PM
At least that would be providing jobs to citizens.


Sorry, some people don't spend most of their free time arguing on the Internet.

It's obviously not practical to send all of the children back.

Their parents came over ILLEGALLY SO THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS. The government should not give them benefits and it should be illegal for the to WORK HERE.

Their parents made a bad decision to break the law and they have to deal with the repercussions. Coming over illegally should not be ENCOURAGED.

I thought I would speak your language with the caps and bolds :winking0071:

Based on your choice of bolded words what I think you are saying is Illegal non citizens working here is encouraged.

drtom2005
06-18-2012, 11:12 PM
I have no problem with stricter border enforcement, but I do agree that no-knock raids on any sort are a very bad idea.

And that is only what I think of with the tech now. Who knows what else the government will do to "protect" our borders? This is the major cost I am now concerned with enforcing these laws more. People should be careful what they wish for. I could see them using vans to listen into all neighborhood homes looking for people speaking Spanish. Ah, some legal Americans speak Spanish or other foreign languages in their homes. That is enough for a raid. Door down.

boba
06-18-2012, 11:13 PM
Based on your choice of bolded words what I think you are saying is Illegal non citizens working here is encouraged.

It is now with amnesty.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 11:15 PM
See my bold responses.

So, I WAS right....you DO support breaking up families and forcing them to deport American born kids.

After all a 10 year old isn't going to stay behind while both his parents are KICKED OUT!

Like I said....that's NO solution, it's a heartless practice!



Their parents came over ILLEGALLY SO THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS. The government should not give them benefits and it should be illegal for the to WORK HERE.

OK, but that's NOT a solution...

They have an American child, unless you are supporting breaking up families, we need to think of a practical solution.


I thought I would speak your language with the caps and bolds :winking0071:

Sure, no problem.

That's just the my unique way of typing on forums.

boba
06-18-2012, 11:16 PM
So, I WAS right....you DO support breaking up families and forcing them to deport American born kids.

After all a 10 year old isn't going to stay behind while both his parents are KICKED OUT!

Like I said....that's NO solution, it's a heartless practice!




OK, but that's NOT a solution...

They have an American child, unless you are supporting breaking up families, we need to think of a practical solution.



Sure, no problem.

That's just the my unique way of typing on forums.

In a solution do you mean a way for the kids of illegals to make a living?

INTIMADATOR2007
06-18-2012, 11:22 PM
I say we treat illegals from mexico the same way they would treat an american going into mexico....Especially the bolded part, this seems to be what Obama wants from them .


Under Article 123 of the General Population Act, illegal immigration is an offense punishable by up to two years in prison and a fine of up to 5,000 pesos, or about $450. Typically, any crime with a punishment of a year or more is considered a felony.

Article 118 of the act says foreigners who are deported and then later attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be punished with up to 10 years in prison.

Under Article 73, local police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities when asked to help enforce the nation's immigration laws.

As set forth in several articles of the act, immigrants are admitted into Mexico according to their potential to "contribute to the national progress" and must have the income needed to support themselves.

Article 9 of the constitution says only citizens may assemble to "take part in the political affairs of the country." Under Article 33, noncitizens "may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country."

tpeichel
06-18-2012, 11:38 PM
So, I WAS right....you DO support breaking up families and forcing them to deport American born kids.

After all a 10 year old isn't going to stay behind while both his parents are KICKED OUT!


Why is this child my responsibility? I don't want to break up a family. The child should just stay with their parents, but the parents are here illegally so they need to go back to their country.

JustAlex
06-18-2012, 11:51 PM
Why is this child my responsibility? I don't want to break up a family. The child should just stay with their parents, but the parents are here illegally so they need to go back to their country.
Do you see the PARADOX you have created in your statement?

theonedru
06-19-2012, 12:07 AM
Its all kinds of funny really the anti-illegal immigration banter considering none of us really deserve to be here period.. What right do we have to deny someone entry in land we just stole from someone who took it from someone else .. Oh the hypocrisy.....

boba
06-19-2012, 12:23 AM
Its all kinds of funny really the anti-illegal immigration banter considering none of us really deserve to be here period.. What right do we have to deny someone entry in land we just stole from someone who took it from someone else .. Oh the hypocrisy.....


Do you see the PARADOX you have created in your statement?

theonedru
06-19-2012, 12:30 AM
Do you see the PARADOX you have created in your statement?

Indeed I have but at least I accept it instead of riding some delusional moral high horse like so many others ( this statement is not directed at you boba its just a generalization).

boba
06-19-2012, 12:35 AM
Indeed I have but at least I accept it instead of riding some delusional moral high horse like so many others ( this statement is not directed at you boba its just a generalization).

No worries, just copied and pasted : )

shrewsbury
06-19-2012, 08:38 AM
theonedru, so i guess we are responsible for slavery and killing countless native americans. we have no control over who did what many years before we even lived.

so the parents of these children and even us should teach these kids and others it is ok to break the law? if you need to break the law it is ok, someone will come and let you off

AUTaxMan
06-19-2012, 10:01 AM
Based on your choice of bolded words what I think you are saying is Illegal non citizens working here is encouraged.

It is encouraged because the laws are not being enforced.

AUTaxMan
06-19-2012, 10:02 AM
In a solution do you mean a way for the kids of illegals to make a living?

Clearly, his only solution is amnesty. I will give you amnesty if you build a wall on the border and line it with military personnel.

boba
06-19-2012, 11:21 AM
Clearly, his only solution is amnesty. I will give you amnesty if you build a wall on the border and line it with military personnel.

+1

You have to deal with the first problem, then deal with the second. If we deal with the second first, we will be encouraging more people to break the law in coming over illegally.

JustAlex
06-19-2012, 06:22 PM
Clearly, his only solution is amnesty. I will give you amnesty if you build a wall on the border and line it with military personnel.

It's only Amnesty for a VERY SELECT FEW.....IMO, it's such a small matter.

But of course....a SOCIALIST-UNAMERICAN-MUSLIM-KENYAN-NAZI President like Obama has some secret agenda to DESTROY this pathetic country!

Boy, if Mitt (THE DOG ABUSER) Romney wins, I can't wait to see how rock bottom this country will really go.

It actually intrigues me, and part of me wants to see it happen, if only to finally have people see that this 2 party system is the stupidest thing ever invented by humans.....well, to be fair, religion is the stupidest thing ever invented by humans....

INTIMADATOR2007
06-19-2012, 07:00 PM
It's only Amnesty for a VERY SELECT FEW.....IMO, it's such a small matter.

But of course....a SOCIALIST-UNAMERICAN-MUSLIM-KENYAN-NAZI President like Obama has some secret agenda to DESTROY this pathetic country!

Boy, if Mitt (THE DOG ABUSER) Romney wins, I can't wait to see how rock bottom this country will really go.

It actually intrigues me, and part of me wants to see it happen, if only to finally have people see that this 2 party system is the stupidest thing ever invented by humans.....well, to be fair, religion is the stupidest thing ever invented by humans....

And what happens if Barack (THE DOG EATER) Wins , does he have what it takes to fix what he hasn't been able to fix ?

Wickabee
06-19-2012, 07:07 PM
And what happens if Barack (THE DOG EATER) Wins , does he have what it takes to fix what he hasn't been able to fix ?
Depends whether the Republicans continue to block his every move or not. I love how the Republicans can stand in Obama's way and then complain that he's gotten nowhere.
At least, that's what it looks like from here.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-19-2012, 07:14 PM
Depends whether the Republicans continue to block his every move or not. I love how the Republicans can stand in Obama's way and then complain that he's gotten nowhere.
At least, that's what it looks like from here.

The republicans have passed 60 + pieces of legislation thru the house only to have Harry Reid block every one and not bring them up for votes in the senate , So if people think its the republicans blocking legislation the need to look no futher than there friend ol' Harry Reid .

INTIMADATOR2007
06-19-2012, 07:21 PM
Depends whether the Republicans continue to block his every move or not. I love how the Republicans can stand in Obama's way and then complain that he's gotten nowhere.
At least, that's what it looks like from here.

And why would the republicans let legislation pass that will hurt the country, Just becuase ol' Barack says "it'll create a zillion jobs " and put 4 million union members to work,Even though he is always the smartest man in any room he is in nothing he has done or wanted to do has worked (with 2 years of total control) and the bills the republicans have stalled on are so pack with other worthless programs and wastefull things even the biggest Obama supporters should have wanted it blocked .

theonedru
06-19-2012, 07:31 PM
Oh come on people quit your bickering and complaining we all know the only reason he is bringing this up is to try and get the Latino vote. The same reason he is all for gay equality even though he has said many times he disagrees with it..... ..

JustAlex
06-19-2012, 07:32 PM
Depends whether the Republicans continue to block his every move or not. I love how the Republicans can stand in Obama's way and then complain that he's gotten nowhere.
At least, that's what it looks like from here.

Yes, you are right, and trust me, many Americans are wishing to be in Canada right about now.

Things have gotten so bad here that most people are negative about the future.


I'm going to be 100% serious right now...

If Obama wins, then things will stay the same, the GOP will block every single thing he does and blame him for the inevitable collapse of our economy.

If Mitt Romney wins, the Dems will most likely block or obstruct everything he does and it will be exactly as it is now.


Americans are in a LOSE-LOSE situation, there is no Messiah to save us, honestly, the future looks very bleak.

Our only chance is that things get so bad that Americans finally wake up and REJECT both parties. We can't continue with this FALSE DICHOTOMY anymore, it won't be long until the "hinges come off".

tpeichel
06-19-2012, 07:49 PM
Its all kinds of funny really the anti-illegal immigration banter considering none of us really deserve to be here period.. What right do we have to deny someone entry in land we just stole from someone who took it from someone else .. Oh the hypocrisy.....

I think this is a society worth saving.

Tens of millions of people would fllood this country if we allowed it and would turn it into just another third world hell hole.

shrewsbury
06-19-2012, 07:50 PM
what americans? i don't know any

the dems owned the place for two years and while obama was in office, what happened then? oh, they got voted out.

there has been zero compromise, and the only cra getting passed isn't helping the real issues.

gay marriage? illegals? religion?

how about blacks are at a higher unemployment rate than 4 years ago, how about teenage unemployment reaching near 30%, how about unemployment all together?

if we taxed the 1% at 100% we could still not meet our monthly government spending budget. and what needs to be cut is not government jobs in general

Wickabee
06-19-2012, 08:01 PM
The republicans have passed 60 + pieces of legislation thru the house only to have Harry Reid block every one and not bring them up for votes in the senate , So if people think its the republicans blocking legislation the need to look no futher than there friend ol' Harry Reid .
I'm not saying the Democrats don't block legislation as well, but the Republicans will block every single thing they possibly can and then turn around and say, "See, he couldn't do what he said he would!"
It's not so much that they're blocking legislation, that's just how government works. From here, though, it looks like they're blocking Obama because he's Obama, not for any actual reason. From here it looks like they're blocking Dems because they're Dems and for no other real reason. I'm just telling you what it looks like from here. From here it looks like the US treats politics as a sport and nothing more. If the people running your country in Washington would forget the score and just do what's best for the country, things would look a lot better.

Unfortunately everything that happens in Washington seems to end in terms of "who won the dems or the reps? What's the score?" and it's a little sad to see the nation built on the greatest ideals is run like a pro sports league with 4-year long seasons.

habsheaven
06-19-2012, 08:09 PM
I'm not saying the Democrats don't block legislation as well, but the Republicans will block every single thing they possibly can and then turn around and say, "See, he couldn't do what he said he would!"
It's not so much that they're blocking legislation, that's just how government works. From here, though, it looks like they're blocking Obama because he's Obama, not for any actual reason. From here it looks like they're blocking Dems because they're Dems and for no other real reason. I'm just telling you what it looks like from here. From here it looks like the US treats politics as a sport and nothing more. If the people running your country in Washington would forget the score and just do what's best for the country, things would look a lot better.

Unfortunately everything that happens in Washington seems to end in terms of "who won the dems or the reps? What's the score?" and it's a little sad to see the nation built on the greatest ideals is run like a pro sports league with 4-year long seasons.

There's a reason why it looks like this. That reason is because it is true. The surprising part is that it is so blatant. They proudly boast about it. Glad it's not our problem. Even Harper with a majority is better than the mess US politics is in.

JustAlex
06-19-2012, 08:12 PM
From here, though, it looks like they're blocking Obama because he's Obama, not for any actual reason. From here it looks like they're blocking Dems because they're Dems and for no other real reason. I'm just telling you what it looks like from here. From here it looks like the US treats politics as a sport and nothing more. If the people running your country in Washington would forget the score and just do what's best for the country, things would look a lot better.

Don't let ANY conservative on here tell you you're wrong...

You are 100% correct and unlike them, I'm willing to admit BOTH parties are broken beyond repair.

I'm willing to concede that we (as a government) have NO solutions and the best way to move forward is to rebuild and start from fresh.

We need a congress that won't Filibuster EVERY single piece of legislation!

We need corporations OUT of government.

And most of all, we need to REALIZE that this system is NOT WORKING!


My opinion is that there should be NO MORE political parties, everyone should run as an individual and we ELIMINATE the two party system.

JustAlex
06-19-2012, 08:17 PM
There's a reason why it looks like this. That reason is because it is true. The surprising part is that it is so blatant. They proudly boast about it. Glad it's not our problem. Even Harper with a majority is better than the mess US politics is in.

Exactly!

But you will NEVER hear any conservative or GOP member admit it.

They will always blame the other side, instead of realizing that BOTH sides are broken.

Habs, Wickabee.....I know your country isn't perfect either....but the grass has never been greener than it is right now.

Wickabee
06-19-2012, 08:36 PM
Well, I'm a guy who believes that any party system, even ours in Canada, completely undermines true democracy. If the US is the greatest democracy on earth, then there really is no democracy on earth.

Wickabee
06-19-2012, 08:39 PM
There's a reason why it looks like this. That reason is because it is true. The surprising part is that it is so blatant. They proudly boast about it. Glad it's not our problem. Even Harper with a majority is better than the mess US politics is in.
I do not trust Harper for a nanosecond, but I'm not going to let that get in the way of admitting that, as far as the party leaders are concerned, he's the smartest and best suited for the job right now.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-19-2012, 09:01 PM
I'm not saying the Democrats don't block legislation as well, but the Republicans will block every single thing they possibly can and then turn around and say, "See, he couldn't do what he said he would!"
It's not so much that they're blocking legislation, that's just how government works. From here, though, it looks like they're blocking Obama because he's Obama, not for any actual reason. From here it looks like they're blocking Dems because they're Dems and for no other real reason. I'm just telling you what it looks like from here. From here it looks like the US treats politics as a sport and nothing more. If the people running your country in Washington would forget the score and just do what's best for the country, things would look a lot better.

Unfortunately everything that happens in Washington seems to end in terms of "who won the dems or the reps? What's the score?" and it's a little sad to see the nation built on the greatest ideals is run like a pro sports league with 4-year long seasons.

Agreed !

INTIMADATOR2007
06-19-2012, 09:02 PM
Uh excuse me , But the republicans are not in charge and if they were and they pulled the same stunts as Obama , you can bet this country would be giving them just as much hell as we give Obama .

Wickabee
06-19-2012, 09:05 PM
Well, the republicans seem to be doing the same things to Obama that they vilified the democrats for doing to Bush. Given the choice between the two, I'd pick the democrats. They all do the same...

habsheaven
06-19-2012, 09:14 PM
I do not trust Harper for a nanosecond, but I'm not going to let that get in the way of admitting that, as far as the party leaders are concerned, he's the smartest and best suited for the job right now.

Reluctantly, I have to agree with you as much as I hate saying it.

Wickabee
06-19-2012, 09:35 PM
Reluctantly, I have to agree with you as much as I hate saying it.
I know it hurts. I usually vote Green.

Star_Cards
06-20-2012, 08:47 AM
And what happens if Barack (THE DOG EATER) Wins , does he have what it takes to fix what he hasn't been able to fix ?

why is he a dog eater?

Star_Cards
06-20-2012, 08:51 AM
There's a reason why it looks like this. That reason is because it is true. The surprising part is that it is so blatant. They proudly boast about it. Glad it's not our problem. Even Harper with a majority is better than the mess US politics is in.

It's sad really, they make it out to be a two team competition rather than a single team playing for the same cause. And the saddest thing about it is that most americans fall right in step with their garbage and make it about Reps vs Dems. Politics should be more like a good marriage where two parties come together to create a greater good for the unit, not just worrying about their own interests.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 10:13 AM
It's only Amnesty for a VERY SELECT FEW.....IMO, it's such a small matter.

But of course....a SOCIALIST-UNAMERICAN-MUSLIM-KENYAN-NAZI President like Obama has some secret agenda to DESTROY this pathetic country!

Boy, if Mitt (THE DOG ABUSER) Romney wins, I can't wait to see how rock bottom this country will really go.

It actually intrigues me, and part of me wants to see it happen, if only to finally have people see that this 2 party system is the stupidest thing ever invented by humans.....well, to be fair, religion is the stupidest thing ever invented by humans....

Very select few? We are talking close to a million people.

I don't really know what the rest of your ramblings mean.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 10:14 AM
Depends whether the Republicans continue to block his every move or not. I love how the Republicans can stand in Obama's way and then complain that he's gotten nowhere.
At least, that's what it looks like from here.

If they disagree with his policies, they aren't just supposed to rubber stamp them approved just so he can have an accomplishment or two.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 10:15 AM
Oh come on people quit your bickering and complaining we all know the only reason he is bringing this up is to try and get the Latino vote. The same reason he is all for gay equality even though he has said many times he disagrees with it..... ..

It's quite transparent. I think it will backfire on him though.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 10:16 AM
Yes, you are right, and trust me, many Americans are wishing to be in Canada right about now.

Things have gotten so bad here that most people are negative about the future.


I'm going to be 100% serious right now...

If Obama wins, then things will stay the same, the GOP will block every single thing he does and blame him for the inevitable collapse of our economy.

If Mitt Romney wins, the Dems will most likely block or obstruct everything he does and it will be exactly as it is now.


Americans are in a LOSE-LOSE situation, there is no Messiah to save us, honestly, the future looks very bleak.

Our only chance is that things get so bad that Americans finally wake up and REJECT both parties. We can't continue with this FALSE DICHOTOMY anymore, it won't be long until the "hinges come off".

If Romney wins and the Republicans take the Senate, things will start moving in the right direction.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 10:17 AM
I'm not saying the Democrats don't block legislation as well, but the Republicans will block every single thing they possibly can and then turn around and say, "See, he couldn't do what he said he would!"
It's not so much that they're blocking legislation, that's just how government works. From here, though, it looks like they're blocking Obama because he's Obama, not for any actual reason. From here it looks like they're blocking Dems because they're Dems and for no other real reason. I'm just telling you what it looks like from here. From here it looks like the US treats politics as a sport and nothing more. If the people running your country in Washington would forget the score and just do what's best for the country, things would look a lot better.

Unfortunately everything that happens in Washington seems to end in terms of "who won the dems or the reps? What's the score?" and it's a little sad to see the nation built on the greatest ideals is run like a pro sports league with 4-year long seasons.

None of his policies have any merit to them. Tell me which specific pieces of legislation proposed by Obama and have been rejected by the House would actually have been good for our economy.

pghin08
06-20-2012, 10:19 AM
It's only Amnesty for a VERY SELECT FEW.....IMO, it's such a small matter.

But of course....a SOCIALIST-UNAMERICAN-MUSLIM-KENYAN-NAZI President like Obama has some secret agenda to DESTROY this pathetic country!

Boy, if Mitt (THE DOG ABUSER) Romney wins, I can't wait to see how rock bottom this country will really go.

It actually intrigues me, and part of me wants to see it happen, if only to finally have people see that this 2 party system is the stupidest thing ever invented by humans.....well, to be fair, religion is the stupidest thing ever invented by humans....

You know, I'm not a Romney fan, but for a guy who has basically lived his whole life in the public eye (son of a Governor), he's pretty clean. The worst anyone has dug up is the dog on the roof thing, and the fact that he may have bullied someone once.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 10:19 AM
Well, I'm a guy who believes that any party system, even ours in Canada, completely undermines true democracy. If the US is the greatest democracy on earth, then there really is no democracy on earth.

That Democratic form of government allowed the most prosperous, powerful, and wealthy nation in the history of the world to be built.

pghin08
06-20-2012, 10:22 AM
None of his policies have any merit to them. Tell me which specific pieces of legislation proposed by Obama and have been rejected by the House would actually have been good for our economy.

How about raising the freaking debt ceiling? Face it man, the Republicans took it hostage, and it cost the US its credit rating (from one agency, at least) and sent the market to a big time tumble. That was NOT for the good of the country, that was to make the President look bad, period.

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 10:49 AM
If Romney wins and the Republicans take the Senate, things will start moving in the right direction.

LOL...WOW!

You just don't get it.

BTW, the GOP has had the House since 2010, what have they done?

NOTHING!

Where are the JOBS, Boehner???

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 10:59 AM
LOL...WOW!

You just don't get it.

BTW, the GOP has had the House since 2010, what have they done?

NOTHING!

Where are the JOBS, Boehner???

The house has passed numerous jobs bills only to be killed by the democrat controlled senate. The senate, alternatively, has offered essentially nothing in terms of a jobs bill. It hasn't even passed a budget in three years.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 11:01 AM
How about raising the freaking debt ceiling? Face it man, the Republicans took it hostage, and it cost the US its credit rating (from one agency, at least) and sent the market to a big time tumble. That was NOT for the good of the country, that was to make the President look bad, period.

The debt ceiling thing was a bad political move by the republicans, but it was not what caused the credit rating to fall. The credit rating fell because the debt is out of control, and the market took a very short term tumble, but that act did not meaningfully affect the market. The debt ceiling increases have to be stopped at some point, however.

shrewsbury
06-20-2012, 11:16 AM
taxman, great posting today!!!

pghin08
06-20-2012, 11:19 AM
The debt ceiling thing was a bad political move by the republicans, but it was not what caused the credit rating to fall. The credit rating fell because the debt is out of control, and the market took a very short term tumble, but that act did not meaningfully affect the market. The debt ceiling increases have to be stopped at some point, however.

I agree and disagree with you here. The debt ceiling undoubtedly had a huge impact on S&P's downgrade. Here's their reasoning:

http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245316529563

Bulletpoints 4 and 5 basically reference the debt ceiling "crisis" without explicitly saying it. Now you're right, S&P is not dumb (well, that may be generous), and the long-term economic outlook of course had an effect on the downgrade, but if the debt ceiling crisis never happened, I don't think we would've seen that downgrade. In fact, I'd put a whole lot of money on that fact.

And that act definitely did effect the market. Not in a meaningful long-term way, like you said, but any 15-20% drop, even though we've pretty much gotten that back, effects the market, because it just serves as time lost.

I also agree that it was a bad political move by the Republicans, and that eventually, we need to stop with the debt increases, but that has to be a subtle move over a long period of time.

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 11:22 AM
The house has passed numerous jobs bills only to be killed by the democrat controlled senate. The senate, alternatively, has offered essentially nothing in terms of a jobs bill. It hasn't even passed a budget in three years.

Exactly, Bingo, WINNER, WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!!!

This is MY point!

When you have a two party system and they both HATE each other to the point where NOTHING gets done, this is the result!

Do you really think the Dems won't obstruct MITT?

Do you really think that unless either party gets full dominating control (Which is VERY UNLIKELY) there won't be the other side to deny it?

Jesus Christ.....stop supporting this ridiculous system and think for yourself!

I gave up on the Dems, years ago....unfortunately, you still believe in the FALSE DICHOTOMY this country has set up.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 12:01 PM
Exactly, Bingo, WINNER, WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!!!

This is MY point!

When you have a two party system and they both HATE each other to the point where NOTHING gets done, this is the result!

Do you really think the Dems won't obstruct MITT?

Do you really think that unless either party gets full dominating control (Which is VERY UNLIKELY) there won't be the other side to deny it?

Jesus Christ.....stop supporting this ridiculous system and think for yourself!

I gave up on the Dems, years ago....unfortunately, you still believe in the FALSE DICHOTOMY this country has set up.

The Dems won't obstruct Mitt if the republicans have both houses of congress. What alternative political system do you support that would be better and WHY?

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 12:31 PM
What alternative political system do you support that would be better and WHY?
The GOP is literally EVIL, there is no doubt in my mind about that.....they support the rich, WHITE, and religious.

As much as I've come to dislike both parties, the GOP is still the worse alternative!

The Dems are COWARDS, they are not true progressives or liberals and if they were in Europe they would be considered "Center-Right" at best.

I don't support any political party, I believe politicians should run as individuals with their 100% real opinions and ideals, not what their corrupt party wants.

If we were to do away with the two party system, there would be no where to hide for these politicians, no one to defend them from their terrible actions.

It still boggles my mind how people can defend individuals like Dick Cheney or John Edwards....simply out of party loyalty.....it's SICKENING!

Both of them deserve to ROT in a jail cell.

Wickabee
06-20-2012, 12:37 PM
why is he a dog eater?
Because he did some growing up in the Phillipines and cultural differences are equal to animal abuse.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-20-2012, 01:37 PM
why is he a dog eater?

It was part of his story in his book "Dreams From My Father " , Although over the last couple of days there are multiple stories coming out that almost nothing in his book is true either . The man cant even tell the truth in his own book about his own life story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161817/Obamas-grandfather-Stanley-Armour-Dunham-tortured-British.html

texansrangerfan73
06-20-2012, 01:42 PM
After years of claiming that he did not have the authority to grant amnesty without Congressional approval, President Obama changed course and is now claiming the authority to enact an amnesty program for illegal aliens.

Push back was immediate as the President was interrupted in the Rose Garden by a reporter asking if this was good for American Workers?

Glad you consider him King because I don't. Americans has lost many jobs & now just like scabs who cross a picket line, thousands of illegals will be taking more jobs than ever now.

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 02:38 PM
The GOP is literally EVIL, there is no doubt in my mind about that.....they support the rich, WHITE, and religious.

This is wrong. Why do you believe this?

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 02:41 PM
It was part of his story in his book "Dreams From My Father " , Although over the last couple of days there are multiple stories coming out that almost nothing in his book is true either . The man cant even tell the truth in his own book about his own life story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161817/Obamas-grandfather-Stanley-Armour-Dunham-tortured-British.html

There's a new book coming out soon detailing all of the lies Obama told in that "autobiography."

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 10:33 PM
This is wrong. Why do you believe this?

Because it's TRUE....

They only support the Rich, white, and Religious.

Again, as much as I think BOTH parties are terrible, the GOP will ALWAYS be the worse alternative.

You think it's a coincidence that most racists are Republican?

You think it's a coincidence that most of the 1% support the GOP?

You think it's a coincidence that most Evangelicals and far right religious Christians are Republican?

If you're a regular middle class person and support them because you're conservative.....fine, I understand that....but they are NOT your allies, they do NOT work for you.

They work for the super rich, they work for special interests, and they only PANDER to Christians, they really don't care about them either.

It's all about money, and quicker people understand that the better.

shrewsbury
06-20-2012, 10:39 PM
you watch too much tv and read to much on wikipedia

smaller government and more personal freedom beats out free condoms and a welfare check any day

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 10:40 PM
Because it's TRUE....

They only support the Rich, white, and Religious.

Again, as much as I think BOTH parties are terrible, the GOP will ALWAYS be the worse alternative.

You think it's a coincidence that most racists are Republican?

You think it's a coincidence that most of the 1% support the GOP?

You think it's a coincidence that most Evangelicals and far right religious Christians are Republican?

If you're a regular middle class person and support them because you're conservative.....fine, I understand that....but they are NOT your allies, they do NOT work for you.

They work for the super rich, they work for special interests, and they only PANDER to Christians, they really don't care about them either.

It's all about money, and quicker people understand that the better.

What are you, 14? You are so uneducated and so emotional and irrational about politics it is truly mind-blowing.

pghin08
06-20-2012, 10:54 PM
Play nice guys, no personal stuff.

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 11:11 PM
you watch too much tv and read to much on wikipedia

smaller government and more personal freedom beats out free condoms and a welfare check any day

Small government???

FINE.

Personal Freedoms???

That's A LIE!!!

You think restricting women the way the GOP have tried to do is Personal freedoms?

You think discriminating against Gays and Immigrants is personal freedoms?

You think helping ONLY the super rich by cutting their taxes and increasing our taxes is good?

Free condoms and welfare???

That's ridiculous.

And FYI....I'm NOT a democrat, so don't think I'm falling for the false dichotomy of this country!


What are you, 14? You are so uneducated and so emotional and irrational about politics it is truly mind-blowing.

What part of my comment was wrong?

FACT....racists, evangelicals, far right religious christian, the super rich all tend to be Republican!

Emotional....OK, probably, but so are YOU!

Irrational.....NO, I don't think so, after all I don't fall in line with what "My party" tells me.

I've grown out of that, I reject BOTH parties, of course that doesn't mean I can't see that one is clearly worse than the other.

theonedru
06-20-2012, 11:13 PM
Because it's TRUE....

They only support the Rich, white, and Religious.

Again, as much as I think BOTH parties are terrible, the GOP will ALWAYS be the worse alternative.

You think it's a coincidence that most racists are Republican?

You think it's a coincidence that most of the 1% support the GOP?

You think it's a coincidence that most Evangelicals and far right religious Christians are Republican?

If you're a regular middle class person and support them because you're conservative.....fine, I understand that....but they are NOT your allies, they do NOT work for you.

They work for the super rich, they work for special interests, and they only PANDER to Christians, they really don't care about them either.

It's all about money, and quicker people understand that the better.

Can you provide irrefutable proof of this, And I am talking " if so you could mail to to the Attorney Generals office so they can investigate it " solid type evidence.

INTIMADATOR2007
06-20-2012, 11:15 PM
you watch too much tv and read to much on wikipedia

smaller government and more personal freedom beats out free condoms and a welfare check any day

+1

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 11:19 PM
you watch too much tv and read to much on wikipedia

BTW, what does this mean?

Oh god, I think I know what it means.....don't tell me you're one of those people that believe Wikipedia is "Liberal" and is "Biased".

I think that's why the GOP created the JOKE that is "Conservapedia".

I go there once in awhile to laugh at the ridiculous claims they put on science, it's too funny...

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 11:22 PM
Can you provide irrefutable proof of this, And I am talking " if so you could mail to to the Attorney Generals office so they can investigate it " solid type evidence.
C'mon, really, I have to proof that the GOP work for the super rich?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/if-youre-rich-and-republican-and-support-romney/

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-gop-became-the-party-of-the-rich-20111109

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/20/republican-tax-plan-would_n_1612111.html

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 11:26 PM
Wait, I've got PLENTY MORE!

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/09/27/the-reason-the-gop-keeps-sticking-up-for-the-wealthy/

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/04/12/463694/gop-budget-raises-taxes-on-poor/?mobile=nc

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/09/gop-again-votes-in-favor-of-super-rich-against-broke-college-graduates/

AUTaxMan
06-20-2012, 11:42 PM
Both sides cater to the uber rich. Try again.

theonedru
06-20-2012, 11:43 PM
Wait, I've got PLENTY MORE!

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/09/27/the-reason-the-gop-keeps-sticking-up-for-the-wealthy/

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/04/12/463694/gop-budget-raises-taxes-on-poor/?mobile=nc

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/09/gop-again-votes-in-favor-of-super-rich-against-broke-college-graduates/

So you would be willing to take this to the AG Office and present it as proof of Government misdoings............ Let me know how that works out

JustAlex
06-20-2012, 11:48 PM
Both sides cater to the uber rich. Try again.
Dude again....I'm not on Either side, I'm just very against one side more than the other.

I know the Dems cater to the super rich as well, but the GOP makes it so blatantly obvious, I have no idea why the anyone in the middle class would support them.


So you would be willing to take this to the AG Office and present it as proof of Government misdoings............ Let me know how that works out

I didn't say that...YOU DID, I'm just providing proof that the GOP works for the Super rich.

theonedru
06-21-2012, 12:01 AM
Dude again....I'm not on Either side, I'm just very against one side more than the other.

I know the Dems cater to the super rich as well, but the GOP makes it so blatantly obvious, I have no idea why the anyone in the middle class would support them.



I didn't say that...YOU DID, I'm just providing proof that the GOP works for the Super rich.

Well its not very good proof if your not willing to do it then is it? In fact I will throw something back at you to prove the Gov't is not all about the super rich

WELFARE

If they were so for the rich there would not be the numbers of people on some form of government assistance

JustAlex
06-21-2012, 12:16 AM
Well its not very good proof if your not willing to do it then is it? In fact I will throw something back at you to prove the Gov't is not all about the super rich

WELFARE

If they were so for the rich there would not be the numbers of people on some form of government assistance

Can you tell me which party supports welfare?

It's definitely NOT the GOP.

In fact....surprise, surprise, most if not ALL GOP members would LOVE to eliminate all entitlement programs.

Don't believe me, just ask any conservative on here how they feel about entitlement programs....

To them, helping ANY poor person is Socialism and has NO PLACE in the U.S.

After all, we worship capitalism, the system that makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.


The GOP is so blatantly anti-poor and pro-rich, the Dems at least "act" like they care about the poor and they will support entitlement programs.

In the end though, they will also bow down to the super rich and do anything they ask (This is done in order to secure donations so they can be re-elected).

Everyone should know how this game is played.

The difference is, I have decided not to support this game anymore, I rejected the Dems and consider myself 100% independent.

Unfortunately, the majority of Americans continue to support the game and they wonder why nothing gets fixed.

shrewsbury
06-21-2012, 08:40 AM
alex, wikipedia can be edited by anyone, that's my issue with it, you really love the whole conspiracy ideas.

being against someone being on welfare who can work and being against welfare for people in need are two different things.

how about dems are against showing ID to vote, but yet for me to donate to our local recycling center i need an ID, but i should be able to vote without one?

and who does hollywood back? are they rich?

and most people do bail when times are tough, this is why there is such an issue with welfare. sometimes you need to roll the sleeves up, dig in, and get dirty.

Star_Cards
06-21-2012, 08:49 AM
It was part of his story in his book "Dreams From My Father " , Although over the last couple of days there are multiple stories coming out that almost nothing in his book is true either . The man cant even tell the truth in his own book about his own life story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161817/Obamas-grandfather-Stanley-Armour-Dunham-tortured-British.html

Ah, I see. very clever. As for his grandfather, how would Obama know what his grandfather lies about unless he was there during the event? Honestly I could care less about it, but that's just me.

Possible lies that his grandpa may have told him and food he ate as a child seems rather immaterial.

AUTaxMan
06-21-2012, 09:40 AM
In fact....surprise, surprise, most if not ALL GOP members would LOVE to eliminate all entitlement programs.

You cannot make baseless statements like this and expect to be taken seriously.

JustAlex
06-21-2012, 11:09 AM
You cannot make baseless statements like this and expect to be taken seriously.

Baseless?

We spent 11 pages talking about Welfare and other entitlements....did you forget?

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1661806

Oh, yeah, EVERY conservative on there including YOU were very negative about Entitlements, but I'm making a baseless statement, right?

AUTaxMan
06-21-2012, 11:38 AM
Baseless?

We spent 11 pages talking about Welfare and other entitlements....did you forget?

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1661806

Oh, yeah, EVERY conservative on there including YOU were very negative about Entitlements, but I'm making a baseless statement, right?


I have never once heard of anyone wanting to "eliminate all entitlement programs." Your statement is baseless. If you do not mean to speak in absolutes, then you shouldn't.

Wickabee
06-21-2012, 11:43 AM
Does anyone know where I can buy Democrat and Republican team jerseys?

Can't wait for the finals in November! Anyone know who's playing the halftime show?

pghin08
06-21-2012, 11:50 AM
Does anyone know where I can buy Democrat and Republican team jerseys?

Can't wait for the finals in November! Anyone know who's playing the halftime show?

They couldn't agree on anybody, so they're having two stages built right next to each other. The Republicans got Ted Nugent, and the Democrats got Bruce Springsteen. The plan is for them to play so loudly that nobody will be able to make out anything they're saying.

duwal
06-21-2012, 02:06 PM
They couldn't agree on anybody, so they're having two stages built right next to each other. The Republicans got Ted Nugent, and the Democrats got Bruce Springsteen. The plan is for them to play so loudly that nobody will be able to make out anything they're saying.

ah, Ted Nugent....the Gary Busey of my party :sign0020:

jlzinck
06-22-2012, 08:08 PM
Sorry for the delay in responding. <br />
The Governor on Massachusetts would not allow any police to use the Secure Communities program. Because of this the posice COULD send the prints to the FBI to...

jlzinck
06-22-2012, 08:16 PM
Its all kinds of funny really the anti-illegal immigration banter considering none of us really deserve to be here period.. What right do we have to deny someone entry in land we just stole from someone who took it from someone else .. Oh the hypocrisy.....

As a person with a direct bloodline from King Philip of the Wompanoag tribe I do belong here.

Unlike Granny Warren I have never put it on an application:thumb:

jlzinck
06-22-2012, 08:21 PM
The GOP is literally EVIL, there is no doubt in my mind about that.....they support the rich, WHITE, and religious.

As much as I've come to dislike both parties, the GOP is still the worse alternative!

The Dems are COWARDS, they are not true progressives or liberals and if they were in Europe they would be considered "Center-Right" at best.

I don't support any political party, I believe politicians should run as individuals with their 100% real opinions and ideals, not what their corrupt party wants.

If we were to do away with the two party system, there would be no where to hide for these politicians, no one to defend them from their terrible actions.

It still boggles my mind how people can defend individuals like Dick Cheney or John Edwards....simply out of party loyalty.....it's SICKENING!

Both of them deserve to ROT in a jail cell.

You really are a hate filled little man aren't you?

Wickabee
06-22-2012, 09:26 PM
You really are a hate filled little man aren't you?
I don't know, he made a LOT of sense there, no matter the motivation.

JustAlex
06-22-2012, 10:55 PM
You really are a hate filled little man aren't you?

I don't hate anyone specifically.

I hate ideology!

There's a big difference.

jlzinck
06-22-2012, 11:40 PM
I don't know, he made a LOT of sense there, no matter the motivation.
To you because you think more like him.....to others he sound like a tin foil hat wearing 9/11 truther.


I don't hate anyone specifically.

I hate ideology!

There's a big difference.



The GOP is literally EVIL, there is no doubt in my mind about that.....they support the rich, WHITE, and religious


SO the GOP which consists of conservative thinking people is evil. As the GOP is not an actual being you believe the people that make up the GOP are evil. If you were being totally honest you would also say the same thing about the Dems because of their stances as well.

Like allowing the 800,000 illegals to stay in the US. IT was wrong for the parent(s) to come here. They made a decision to break the laws of the United States. If the parent(s) are deported the children should go with them. If not the message is "It's OK to let you break the law because you were young"

You are behind rewarding law breakers.

Wickabee
06-24-2012, 05:35 PM
To you because you think more like him.....to others he sound like a tin foil hat wearing 9/11 truther.

So now saying that the party system gives democracy to the rich while giving everyone else just the illusion is the rantings of a 9/11 truther wearing a tinfoil hat?
1: He's right
2: What do you think you sound like right there? To me you sound like someone who's never even considered what the post said, and I'm probably not the only one.

drtom2005
06-24-2012, 07:42 PM
alex, wikipedia can be edited by anyone, that's my issue with it, you really love the whole conspiracy ideas.

being against someone being on welfare who can work and being against welfare for people in need are two different things.

how about dems are against showing ID to vote, but yet for me to donate to our local recycling center i need an ID, but i should be able to vote without one?

and who does hollywood back? are they rich?

and most people do bail when times are tough, this is why there is such an issue with welfare. sometimes you need to roll the sleeves up, dig in, and get dirty.

Do you have any relatives on Medicare or in the military?

shrewsbury
06-24-2012, 07:44 PM
not sure where you are going with this?


Do you have any relatives on Medicare or in the military?

but like i said,


being against someone being on welfare who can work and being against welfare for people in need are two different things.

drtom2005
06-24-2012, 07:51 PM
not sure where you are going with this?



but like i said,
Well following the premise of getting rid of entitlements, Medicare(for the elderly) and vets benefits should be eliminated, also. The top 3 entitlement expenses for the government are from medicare, the military, and the Medicaid. If you support Medicaid entitlement elimination, I would hope you would supprot eliminating those entitlements. How would you define who can work that is on Medicaid? You can't work on the problem until this question is answered.

MadMan1978
06-24-2012, 08:25 PM
Sorry for the delay in responding.
The Governor on Massachusetts would not allow any police to use the Secure Communities program. Because of this the posice COULD send the prints to the FBI to check for outstanding major issues but not to ICE to see if this person has been deported or had been ordered to leave.

This caused ADA's to look for more things to hold the illegals and try them. Now the Feds have ordered use of the Secure Communities so at least they COULD run the prints and see if this man had been caught before and deported so this could not happen to someone else.

Bottom line is you need to tread the enablers of the illegals more harshly then the illegals themselves.
-Really? and that would do what? NOT MUCH at all! You would jail half of the local and state officials in some states! Boston and New York are already have admitted they dont chase down illegals. It is not their job to hold them and turn them over to federal authorities.

People who employ them should be fined and jailed for their actions.

We have enough able bodied people here that suck off the system who could be doing these jobs. The whole system needs to be reformed.
-Really? and that would do what? NOT MUCH at all! You would jail half of the local and state officials in some states! Boston and New York are already have admitted they dont chase down illegals. It is not their job to hold them and turn them over to federal authorities.

jlzinck
06-24-2012, 09:06 PM
-Really? and that would do what? NOT MUCH at all! You would jail half of the local and state officials in some states! Boston and New York are already have admitted they dont chase down illegals. It is not their job to hold them and turn them over to federal authorities.

Obviously you don't understand what I was talking about. Massachusetts state and local officials are doing enough themselves with all the corruption here to be dealt with.

I was talking about the people who employ illegals. I think a $10,000 fine for a 1st offense and jail time for additional offenses would stop people from hiring them.

But then you would need to get the American Parasites to get off welfare and get to work.

drtom2005
06-24-2012, 09:19 PM
Obviously you don't understand what I was talking about. Massachusetts state and local officials are doing enough themselves with all the corruption here to be dealt with.

I was talking about the people who employ illegals. I think a $10,000 fine for a 1st offense and jail time for additional offenses would stop people from hiring them.

But then you would need to get the American Parasites to get off welfare and get to work.

So you too would support cutting or eliminating vet benefits and Medicare benefits right?