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View Full Version : 3 dead after killer unloads 63 rounds from AK47 after argument over a girl in Queens



pwaldo
07-09-2012, 06:40 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170297/Three-dead-brutal-shooting-killer-unloads-63-rounds-AK-47-argument-girl.html


A brutal shooting this morning on the streets of Queens, New York, ended in the deaths of three men after a gunman unleashed 63 rounds from an AK-47.

A fourth man was wounded during the attack at around 5 a.m. which occurred on the corner of 185th street and 144th Avenue as the men sat in a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

According to a friend of the victims, the men were killed in a dispute over a girl and the killer apparently stalked them from Brooklyn to Springfield Gardens in Queens after their 'fight over a girl'.

'It was over a girl, over a look,' said the friend to the New York Daily News

'They were followed from the club and shot.'

When emergency workers and police arrived they discovered two of the dead men inside the car, while the third man was found on the street near to the rear of the vehicle and was barefoot.

The police have not identified the dead nor have they caught the killer.

pghin08
07-09-2012, 07:45 PM
That's insane, my goodness.

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 08:01 AM
If this isn't the perfect example of why we need the death penalty then I don't know what is.

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 08:23 AM
If this isn't the perfect example of why we need the death penalty then I don't know what is.

Maybe a better example of why you need a ban on automatic weapons.

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 08:30 AM
Maybe a better example of why you need a ban on automatic weapons.

He still could have killed them with a hand gun. Are you suggesting that we reliquinsh our second amendment rights that our founding fathers fought and died for?

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 09:27 AM
He still could have killed them with a hand gun. Are you suggesting that we reliquinsh our second amendment rights that our founding fathers fought and died for?

Not at all. When those rights were granted did they foresee every citizen having access to a weapon that could shoot umpteen rounds per second? And just how does limiting the firepower of the weapon become relinquishing your 2nd amendment rights?

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 09:46 AM
Not at all. When those rights were granted did they foresee every citizen having access to a weapon that could shoot umpteen rounds per second? And just how does limiting the firepower of the weapon become relinquishing your 2nd amendment rights?

Ok I was just making sure. I'm not sure why the average joe on the street would need an AK-47 but I am a strong supporter of the average citizen being able to legally buy and possess firearms for their own personal defense.

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 09:56 AM
Ok I was just making sure. I'm not sure why the average joe on the street would need an AK-47 but I am a strong supporter of the average citizen being able to legally buy and possess firearms for their own personal defense.

I have nothing against the right to own firearms. I think it is very reasonable although I do not, and probably will not, ever own one. I just think, for society's benefit and safety, there should be limits placed on the race to own a bigger, better gun than the guy down the street. When you start talking about a right to own assault rifles, I think the reasonability issue becomes questionable.

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 10:06 AM
I have nothing against the right to own firearms. I think it is very reasonable although I do not, and probably will not, ever own one. I just think, for society's benefit and safety, there should be limits placed on the race to own a bigger, better gun than the guy down the street. When you start talking about a right to own assault rifles, I think the reasonability issue becomes questionable.


I guess we would be both "pro-choice" when it comes to gun ownership. :sign0020:

shrewsbury
07-10-2012, 10:10 AM
making automatics illegal or limited their capacity willonly mean the "bad people" will have them and us normal folks won't.

we need to go back to hanging people in the town square with a note hanging from them.

shrewsbury
07-10-2012, 10:10 AM
making automatics illegal or limited their capacity willonly mean the "bad people" will have them and us normal folks won't.

we need to go back to hanging people in the town square with a note hanging from them.

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 10:38 AM
we need to go back to hanging people in the town square with a note hanging from them.

CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 11:19 AM
making automatics illegal or limited their capacity willonly mean the "bad people" will have them and us normal folks won't.

we need to go back to hanging people in the town square with a note hanging from them.

When I hear of another mass shooting it is usually the "normal" people doing the shooting not the "bad" people. Ban the sale and manufacture of automatic weapons, increase the penalties for having one and before you know it the "bad" people will not have them either. Joe Blow down the street owning an AK47 isn't protecting anybody.

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 11:27 AM
When I hear of another mass shooting it is usually the "normal" people doing the shooting not the "bad" people. Ban the sale and manufacture of automatic weapons, increase the penalties for having one and before you know it the "bad" people will not have them either. Joe Blow down the street owning an AK47 isn't protecting anybody.


I have mixed views on banning the manufacture or sale of any type of weapon. However I am entirely for giving any clown that commits a mass murder with an assult riffle death by the most inhumane means perscibed by law.

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 11:34 AM
I have mixed views on banning the manufacture or sale of any type of weapon. However I am entirely for giving any clown that commits a mass murder with an assult riffle death by the most inhumane means perscibed by law.

I hope that will make you feel better if it is your loved one that gets gunned down by a disgruntled teen who takes his dad's assault rifle to school. I have a feeling the final fate of the gunman won't help one little bit.

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 11:56 AM
I hope that will make you feel better if it is your loved one that gets gunned down by a disgruntled teen who takes his dad's assault rifle to school. I have a feeling the final fate of the gunman won't help one little bit.

What if your loved one gets killed by a speeding criminal who is fleeing the police? Should we ban the sale of all automobiles? To answer your question I will be sad if any loved one of mines is murdered. Killing the assailant will not bring my loved one back but it will serve a sense of justice knowing that they suffered and died just like my loved one suffered and died.

shrewsbury
07-10-2012, 12:06 PM
habs, normal people don't commit mass murder,

drugs are illegal, has it stopped anyone?

Tivo32
07-10-2012, 12:23 PM
I hope that will make you feel better if it is your loved one that gets gunned down by a disgruntled teen who takes his dad's assault rifle to school. I have a feeling the final fate of the gunman won't help one little bit.

The most powerful testimony I've heard to be made against the death penalty was made by a man who's daughter was shot and killed by a man. The father made it a point to meet with his daughter's killer, get to know him, and ultimately expressed forgiveness to the man. Hearing a father talk about his daughter's murderer and how he shouldn't receive the death penalty was more than enough for me to go back and look at what I believe about it.

You're right, the death penalty does not bring back a loved one.

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 01:09 PM
habs, normal people don't commit mass murder,

drugs are illegal, has it stopped anyone?

Jay, most of those shooters were "normal" the day before the shooting. If the penalty is harsh enough it will deter criminals from possessing them. Same holds true for drugs unless you are dealing with an addict, and I've yet to hear of a gun addict.

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 01:10 PM
What if your loved one gets killed by a speeding criminal who is fleeing the police? Should we ban the sale of all automobiles? To answer your question I will be sad if any loved one of mines is murdered. Killing the assailant will not bring my loved one back but it will serve a sense of justice knowing that they suffered and died just like my loved one suffered and died.

Are you really comparing a car with a gun? If so, I have no response to that.

Actually, I do have a response. I was not talking about banning all guns just automatic weapons. For your car analogy, most countries already limit which cars can and cannot be driven on the road.

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 01:13 PM
The most powerful testimony I've heard to be made against the death penalty was made by a man who's daughter was shot and killed by a man. The father made it a point to meet with his daughter's killer, get to know him, and ultimately expressed forgiveness to the man. Hearing a father talk about his daughter's murderer and how he shouldn't receive the death penalty was more than enough for me to go back and look at what I believe about it.

You're right, the death penalty does not bring back a loved one.


Yeah I was watching one of those crime doccumentries on cable tv over the weekend and they were talking about some skinhead in texas who went killing people of middle eastern decent right after 9/11. One of his victims was shot in the eye but survived. He was saying that his mother showed him in islam it is good to have forgivness. So he ended up forgiving the man who shot him and pleaded with gov rick perry of texas not to execute the skinhead even though he eventually was. That along with the father who forgave his duaghter's killer are both good stories but I'm not sure if I would be able to do the same. I pray to God that I am never put into a position to have to make that choice.

Tivo32
07-10-2012, 01:17 PM
That along with the father who forgave his duaghter's killer are both good stories but I'm not sure if I would be able to do the same. I pray to God that I am never put into a position to have to make that choice.

Oh please, trust me when I say I don't know how I could ever have that same kind of forgiveness for someone who hurt or killed someone I love. I can't imagine. I wish no one would ever have to know that kind of pain. My heart breaks for those who do experience such loss.

shrewsbury
07-10-2012, 01:23 PM
what does my forgiveness for such a person do?

the death penalty is so this person does not do it again, so no one else suffers. i would suffer either way and my forgiveness would not bring back the one I love.

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 01:40 PM
what does my forgiveness for such a person do?

the death penalty is so this person does not do it again, so no one else suffers. i would suffer either way and my forgiveness would not bring back the one I love.

I agree. The death penalty only serves one real purpose. It assures us that this individual will never harm anyone else. That's good enough for me.

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 02:18 PM
I agree. The death penalty only serves one real purpose. It assures us that this individual will never harm anyone else. That's good enough for me.

Agree as well. The only change I would like to make to the death penalty is to eliminate lethal injections and make all executions either the electic chair or gas chamber.

MadMan1978
07-10-2012, 05:02 PM
Maybe a better example of why you need a ban on automatic weapons.



But we do and I am pretty sure AK-47's are on that list as illegal weapons...

MadMan1978
07-10-2012, 05:04 PM
This man who killed these innocent people deserves nothing more than the death plenty.

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 07:06 PM
But we do and I am pretty sure AK-47's are on that list as illegal weapons...

It looks like NY does have a ban but it is one of only a few states that do. The national AWB expired in 2004. Any attempts to re-instate it have been quashed.

theonedru
07-10-2012, 07:54 PM
Just because people have the right to own a gun does not mean they have the responsibility to own a gun. I have no problem with people owning guns who have the intelligence to do so. Sad thing is so many mistreat them, like people who allow their guns to fall into the hands of their kids who take them to school or shoot people with them and such its obvious if they were responsible gun owners then their kids would never have gotten access to them. Or if their guns get stolen, thieves should never be able to get access to your weapons, if they use them in a crime you are just as responsible as they are. Or if you a person who says you own a gun and would kill to defend something/one then you are an irresponsible human who does not deserve to own a weapon ( it also shows premeditation for if you do shoot someone totally denying you the right to use the defense claim).

Wickabee
07-11-2012, 01:44 PM
Ok I was just making sure. I'm not sure why the average joe on the street would need an AK-47 but I am a strong supporter of the average citizen being able to legally buy and possess firearms for their own personal defense.

Without guns, the King of England could walk into your house and start pushing you around!

Without automatic weapons, no one would be able to hunt today's super animals like the flying squirrel and the electric eel!

11chaos
07-11-2012, 01:54 PM
So much for the normal people doing the killing.

That phrase ricocheted around on the corner of 144th Ave. and 185th St. in Springfield Gardens on Monday morning, four days after gunmen — including one spraying an AK-47 — fired 63 shots into four men in a Jeep.

Three died.

Police say the execution-style shooting was motivated by a million-dollar drug rip-off.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/springfield-gardens-residents-ak-47-shooting-killed-men-sounds-war-zone-article-1.1111023#ixzz20L01d2T7

MadMan1978
07-11-2012, 01:57 PM
I will be the first to say the We all should support the 2nd amendment. However, that doesnt not mean the average citizen needs an AK-47 or AR15 or a 50 cal to hunt or even defend a house with with. I can see a home owner have a hand gun/Shot gun/Rifle in their home. I have owed several myself. I no longer owe them because I might be tempt to use them.

mrveggieman
07-11-2012, 02:14 PM
So much for the normal people doing the killing.

That phrase ricocheted around on the corner of 144th Ave. and 185th St. in Springfield Gardens on Monday morning, four days after gunmen — including one spraying an AK-47 — fired 63 shots into four men in a Jeep.

Three died.

Police say the execution-style shooting was motivated by a million-dollar drug rip-off.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/springfield-gardens-residents-ak-47-shooting-killed-men-sounds-war-zone-article-1.1111023#ixzz20L01d2T7


This line caught my eye when reading this article:


On Sunday, a Taliban gunman publicly executed his cheating wife while a crowd chanted “God is great.”




That is why I hate all religious extremists and fanatics regardless of religion. They make all us us look like a bunch of bafoons.

11chaos
07-12-2012, 04:15 AM
Yes, the people on this side of the world don't want to be like any westener. They view it as evil and as such we are Infidel's. Nor do they want to better themselves, or think beyond today. There is no thought for the future unless you count the corruption that lines their pockets with our Tax dollars.

As far as the shooting goes, 98% sure that the AK47 was acquired illegally so any gun control would only stop the law-abiding citizen.

mrveggieman
07-12-2012, 08:28 AM
As far as the shooting goes, 98% sure that the AK47 was acquired illegally so any gun control would only stop the law-abiding citizen.


Agree with you on that point. I will even 1up you and say that I am 100% certian that the gun used was aquired illegally.

habsheaven
07-12-2012, 08:38 AM
If he obtained the gun illegally, where did he get it from? Stop the manufacturing of the guns, stop the importing of the guns and increase the penalties for possession and you affect more than just the law-abiding citizens.

mrveggieman
07-12-2012, 08:47 AM
If he obtained the gun illegally, where did he get it from? Stop the manufacturing of the guns, stop the importing of the guns and increase the penalties for possession and you affect more than just the law-abiding citizens.

I can't see any country stopping the manafacture of these weapons. For one the gov'ts like them for military use. Criminals will also always find ways to import illegal goods into the country. However I do agree with stiffer penalties for possession and usage of a firearm in commission of a crime.

11chaos
07-12-2012, 09:27 AM
Even if they stopped making those guns, there are so many out there it wouldn't matter for a very long time. Importing, that's funny. You do realize that most of the guns you are talking about are smuggled, right? As far as owning one, shoot (my little funny) if I could I would own one, they are fun to shoot.

11chaos
07-12-2012, 09:55 AM
Let me make a short blanket comment. There are no good guns. There are no bad guns. Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody - except bad people. - Charleton Heston May 18 1997

shrewsbury
07-12-2012, 10:04 AM
Moses is pretty smart!!!!

mrveggieman
07-12-2012, 10:07 AM
Let me make a short blanket comment. There are no good guns. There are no bad guns. Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody - except bad people. - Charleton Heston May 18 1997


CHURCH!! :love0030:

JustAlex
07-12-2012, 04:18 PM
maybe a better example of why you need a ban on automatic weapons.
ding, ding, ding!!!!!

JustAlex
07-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Let me make a short blanket comment. There are no good guns. There are no bad guns. Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody - except bad people. - Charleton Heston May 18 1997
Until that "decent" person decides not to be a "decent" person anymore.

Or does that never happen???

shrewsbury
07-12-2012, 05:03 PM
people have been killing long before guns

pwaldo
07-12-2012, 05:21 PM
If he obtained the gun illegally, where did he get it from? Stop the manufacturing of the guns, stop the importing of the guns and increase the penalties for possession and you affect more than just the law-abiding citizens.

How are you going to stop illegal guns from crossing the US border when you can't even stop illegal people from crossing the US border? People are bigger than guns.

Wickabee
07-12-2012, 05:30 PM
How are you going to stop illegal guns from crossing the US border when you can't even stop illegal people from crossing the US border? People are bigger than guns.

Yeah, but they're nowhere near as agile.

JustAlex
07-12-2012, 05:59 PM
people have been killing long before guns
of course....and people will ALWAYS find ways to kill each other.

But, it's a lot harder to kill a human with a knife/blunt object or by your bare hands than simply pushing a trigger.

A CHILD could be a mass murderer with an automatic weapon...

Personally, I believe all automatic weapons should be banned in the 50 states, and we should have stricter gun laws.

duane1969
07-12-2012, 08:25 PM
It looks like NY does have a ban but it is one of only a few states that do. The national AWB expired in 2004. Any attempts to re-instate it have been quashed.

The National Firearms Act in 1968 banned all automatic weapons. NY or any other state doesn't need a ban, they have been illegal for over 40 years. If NY does have a ban on automatic weapons then it is redundant and was a waste of taxpayer dollars to pass it.

The Assault Weapons Ban was a joke. It was created by a bunch of idiots who knew less about weapons than they knew about making effective laws. It didn't ban a single type of firearm. Let me repeat that for effect. It didn't ban a SINGLE type of firearm. Before, during and after the ban you could buy the exact same guns. All it did was ban cosmetic aspects such as bayonets (apparently the idiot lawmakers were concerned with people being bayoneted before they were shot), it banned pistol grips (because we all know that a gun is only truly deadly if it has a pistol grip), it banned folding stocks (again, apparently guns with a fixed stock are not deadly), it banned grenade launchers (already banned by the 1968 NFA and who uses grenade launchers anyway??!!!), and it banned flash suppresors (apparently we didn't want people to be blinded before they died).

The only thing more stupid than passing the AWB would be to reenact it. Oh, and this shooting would not have been prevented by any form of a ban. The gun was illegal, the ownership of it was illegal and no doubt the owner was a criminal. No law would have changed any of that.


I will be the first to say the We all should support the 2nd amendment. However, that doesnt not mean the average citizen needs an AK-47 or AR15 or a 50 cal to hunt or even defend a house with with. I can see a home owner have a hand gun/Shot gun/Rifle in their home. I have owed several myself. I no longer owe them because I might be tempt to use them.

An AR-15 is nothing but a semiautomatic .223 caliber rifle. The same can be accomplished with a semiauto hunting rifle in .223. Just because an AR15 looks like an M16 doesn't make it an assault rifle. In fact, it considered an underpowered gun for home defense because of it's lack of stopping power. Even the military is going away from the .223 because of it's weak penetration.

A .50 cal what? I own a .50 cal muzzleloader but it would have no value as a home defense weapon. .50 cal rifles are too cumbersome for home defense. .50 cal pistols are good for home defense but kick like a mule and have little home defense value for anyone but large stature people.

This is the problem with anti-weapons talks. Most people single out a particular type of weapon to have a problem with and miss the big picture. Owning a particular type of gun is not the problem, letting any type of gun get into the hands of criminals is the problem. You don't stop obesity by banning forks, you don't stop speeding by banning cars, you don't stop shoplifting by banning stores...and you don't stop gun crimes by banning guns.


How are you going to stop illegal guns from crossing the US border when you can't even stop illegal people from crossing the US border? People are bigger than guns.

Shhh...you are making to much logical sense.

duane1969
07-12-2012, 08:27 PM
of course....and people will ALWAYS find ways to kill each other.

But, it's a lot harder to kill a human with a knife/blunt object or by your bare hands than simply pushing a trigger.

A CHILD could be a mass murderer with an automatic weapon...

Personally, I believe all automatic weapons should be banned in the 50 states, and we should have stricter gun laws.

Your wish is granted. All automatic weapons were banned before you were born.

And we have extremely strict gun laws already. The problem is that strict gun laws don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals because criminals do not go to gun shops and legally buy guns. if you can figure out a way to require background checks before illegal gun purchases are done then let me know.