PDA

View Full Version : Batterd and Raped Woman DISRACTIONS? WHAT????



MadMan1978
07-10-2012, 07:47 PM
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07/10/nikki-haley-calls-battered-and-raped-women-distractions-vetoes-legislation/

This woman will almost single hand push back womans rights 50 years!

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 08:00 PM
Sometimes the Republicans leave me speechless.

theonedru
07-10-2012, 08:40 PM
While it sounds harsh i see her point the states have no money they are all in deep debts and they cannot keep spending money like they have limitless reserves. The need to keep cutting back on anything and everything possible. You may not like it but considering the other side of the coin is economic ruin what would you vote for.............

habsheaven
07-10-2012, 08:59 PM
While it sounds harsh i see her point the states have no money they are all in deep debts and they cannot keep spending money like they have limitless reserves. The need to keep cutting back on anything and everything possible. You may not like it but considering the other side of the coin is economic ruin what would you vote for.............

Hmmm... tough choice, spend more money protecting women or cut the programs and have a few more bucks to WASTE on something else? I know what my choice would be.

MadMan1978
07-10-2012, 09:22 PM
While it sounds harsh i see her point the states have no money they are all in deep debts and they cannot keep spending money like they have limitless reserves. The need to keep cutting back on anything and everything possible. You may not like it but considering the other side of the coin is economic ruin what would you vote for.............
TO protect the right of woman! Like you mother and wife and Daughter if you have any....

theonedru
07-10-2012, 09:58 PM
Things like the Violence Against Women Act are both discriminatory and sexist and should not be allowed, it should be the violence against anybody act....

JustAlex
07-10-2012, 09:59 PM
Sometimes the Republicans leave me speechless.
At this point, this is standard for them!

The best part is the fact that the people who support their party will defend them no matter what.

The False Dichotomy continues to make America a helpless JOKE to the rest of the world, there is no saving this country.

theonedru
07-10-2012, 10:00 PM
TO protect the right of women! Like your mother wife and/or Daughter if you have any....

What about the rights of men, why are they not defined and protected as much as any womans? laws and rules that protect one segment of the population while ignoring others are archaic...

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 10:01 PM
I would expect nothing less from the state of south carolina. Most of them believe that the earth is flat.

MadMan1978
07-10-2012, 10:52 PM
What about the rights of men, why are they not defined and protected as much as any womans? laws and rules that protect one segment of the population while ignoring others are archaic...
You are the big strong republican you should do just fine

really that is you rebuttal ?

theonedru
07-10-2012, 11:00 PM
You are the big strong republican you should do just fine

really that is you rebuttal ?

1. You know nothing of my political affiliations so please do not go guessing

2. Its a very valid point, laws should cover everyone not just a small segment of the population but as broad as sweep as possible.. Why anyone would have issue with equality and fairness is confusing. My points are more valid than someones like veggies who said " I would expect nothing less from the state of south carolina. Most of them believe that the earth is flat. " thats pretty insulting to any member who lives there........

MadMan1978
07-10-2012, 11:41 PM
1. You know nothing of my political affiliations so please do not go guessing

2. Its a very valid point, laws should cover everyone not just a small segment of the population but as broad as sweep as possible.. Why anyone would have issue with equality and fairness is confusing. My points are more valid than someones like veggies who said " I would expect nothing less from the state of south carolina. Most of them believe that the earth is flat. " thats pretty insulting to any member who lives there........

1. You know what they say walks like duck... then it must be a Republican ?

2. At l;east his statement is true. Welcome to white America on the rest of this. Better yet talk to you MOTHER on this topic and let he know you opion on this or your Daughter....Sometimes it cannot be about dollars and cents...

mrveggieman
07-10-2012, 11:52 PM
My points are more valid than someones like veggies who said " I would expect nothing less from the state of south carolina. Most of them believe that the earth is flat. " thats pretty insulting to any member who lives there........

Have you ever been to south carolina before? If so you would know why I made that comment.

theonedru
07-11-2012, 12:41 AM
Have you ever been to south carolina before? If so you would know why I made that comment.

It does not apply to everyone that lives there, as such it is a false and misleading statement

habsheaven
07-11-2012, 09:06 AM
Laws are created to address problems in society. As soon as violence and rape against men becomes a problem we can start addressing it with laws to protect them. Why anyone would be against protecting those in our society that need protection confuses me.

11chaos
07-11-2012, 01:02 PM
You are the big strong republican you should do just fine

really that is you rebuttal ?

theonedru is not a Republican, he's more likely a Liberal.

MadMan1978
07-11-2012, 01:27 PM
theonedru is not a Republican, he's more likely a Liberal.
and I am DUCK QUACK QUACK

11chaos
07-11-2012, 02:14 PM
Dude, if he's leaning towards republican than I'm Strom Thurmond returned from the dead and yes that makes me a Zombie. I want brains ;) :sign0202:

MadMan1978
07-11-2012, 02:18 PM
Dude, if he's leaning towards republican than I'm Strom Thurmond returned from the dead and yes that makes me a Zombie. I want brains ;) :sign0202:

I offer my exwifes for Zombie food
They arent using their brains anyway

theonedru
07-11-2012, 04:25 PM
and I am DUCK QUACK QUACK

You should try to stick to topic rather than heckle someone, its unneeded and unwanted so please stop.

MadMan1978
07-11-2012, 05:21 PM
You should try to stick to topic rather than heckle someone, its unneeded and unwanted so please stop.

Fine

Now to attack you position

You are a White Male and now you say these laws, you have every protection under the law. Correct?

You then say that these laws discriminate against you a WHITE MALE?
Your argument does not hold water when we see law makers trying to make in legal to abuse women! Or even when they try to NOT provide some services to woman who is raped. as i said before ask your wife, your daughter, Your sisters? or your mother about the stance. I know at my family table I most likely would get my butt thumped by the female members of my family if I had the view.

Fact is if you carried that thought into a court you would be laughed out the door...and rightfully so.



thats on topic!

theonedru
07-11-2012, 05:52 PM
Fine

Now to attack you position

You are a White Male and now you say these laws, you have every protection under the law. Correct?

You then say that these laws discriminate against you a WHITE MALE?
Your argument does not hold water when we see law makers trying to make in legal to abuse women! Or even when they try to NOT provide some services to woman who is raped. as i said before ask your wife, your daughter, Your sisters? or your mother about the stance. I know at my family table I most likely would get my butt thumped by the female members of my family if I had the view.

Fact is if you carried that thought into a court you would be laughed out the door...and rightfully so.



thats on topic!

I did not say as a white male it discriminated against me... You're desperately grasping at something that is not there. Under the laws regardless of race creed sex religious beliefs or whatever we should be all equal afforded equal protection. Just leave me alone and more on to nit pic someone else, seriously dude.

MadMan1978
07-11-2012, 06:05 PM
I did not say as a white male it discriminated against me... You're desperately grasping at something that is not there. Under the laws regardless of race creed sex religious beliefs or whatever we should be all equal afforded equal protection. Just leave me alone and more on to nit pic someone else, seriously dude.

again refer to past comments

You are so jaded and i am leaving it at that
more so w/e

Wickabee
07-11-2012, 06:05 PM
I did not say as a white male it discriminated against me... You're desperately grasping at something that is not there. Under the laws regardless of race creed sex religious beliefs or whatever we should be all equal afforded equal protection. Just leave me alone and more on to nit pic someone else, seriously dude.

You did say it discriminated against men. If you're a man, then you said it discriminated against you. Not sure where he got white from...

I have to say, though, that while I agree with the sentiment behind your comment, I do not agree with it in this particular case. I was angry when Oprah opened the Girls Only school (or schools, I'm not sure) in Africa a few years back. She said it was because girls are disadvantaged and boys get everything over there. So by educating the girls, she was giving them a fair shake. All well and good, I thought, until they leave school and are back into the reality of a male-run world that the school shielded them from. I felt if the boys were properly educated, real change might be possible instead of the imagined change happening through the girls only school. That was inequity, that was unfair that was shortsighted.

I feel the same way about so-called hate crime. If I mug a white man, no problem. Sure it's illegal, but nowhere near as illegal as mugging a black man or a woman or a homosexual. Yet if a black man, woman or homosexual stabs me for being a white male, it's not a hate crime because I'm a white male and lord knows nobody hates a white male...

In this instance though, I think you're off base. While we would all love the world to be equal, the fact is, it's not and it never will be. In the case of rape, while men do get raped by women, it's quite rare. Women, however, are raped every day. Everyone is not equal, as much as we would like to be. Inequity in reality sometimes requires inequity in law, as I think it does in this case. Kind of like how child molestation is a worse crime than sexual assault. Adults and children are not equal and the law recognizes that. As far as pay and basic rights (vote, drive, wear pants, etc) women and men should absolutely be equal. But in the case of rape and sexual offenses, we simply aren't and the law is reflecting that.

theonedru
07-11-2012, 06:11 PM
again refer to past comments

You are so jaded and i am leaving it at that
more so w/e

And once again you insult me, as staff and the MRM you should know to hold yourself to better standards and I shall leave it at that ...

habsheaven
07-11-2012, 07:12 PM
You did say it discriminated against men. If you're a man, then you said it discriminated against you. Not sure where he got white from...

I have to say, though, that while I agree with the sentiment behind your comment, I do not agree with it in this particular case. I was angry when Oprah opened the Girls Only school (or schools, I'm not sure) in Africa a few years back. She said it was because girls are disadvantaged and boys get everything over there. So by educating the girls, she was giving them a fair shake. All well and good, I thought, until they leave school and are back into the reality of a male-run world that the school shielded them from. I felt if the boys were properly educated, real change might be possible instead of the imagined change happening through the girls only school. That was inequity, that was unfair that was shortsighted.

I feel the same way about so-called hate crime. If I mug a white man, no problem. Sure it's illegal, but nowhere near as illegal as mugging a black man or a woman or a homosexual. Yet if a black man, woman or homosexual stabs me for being a white male, it's not a hate crime because I'm a white male and lord knows nobody hates a white male...

In this instance though, I think you're off base. While we would all love the world to be equal, the fact is, it's not and it never will be. In the case of rape, while men do get raped by women, it's quite rare. Women, however, are raped every day. Everyone is not equal, as much as we would like to be. Inequity in reality sometimes requires inequity in law, as I think it does in this case. Kind of like how child molestation is a worse crime than sexual assault. Adults and children are not equal and the law recognizes that. As far as pay and basic rights (vote, drive, wear pants, etc) women and men should absolutely be equal. But in the case of rape and sexual offenses, we simply aren't and the law is reflecting that.

Very well said. We Canadians sure are smart! :)

Wickabee
07-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Very well said. We Canadians sure are smart! :)

It's mostly me bringing up the average. I'm great:cool:

JustAlex
07-11-2012, 07:53 PM
Very well said. We Canadians sure are smart! :)
Yeah, well, we Americans are.......um....well....

USA, USA, USA!!!!

habsheaven
07-11-2012, 07:54 PM
You will get no argument from me on that.


It's mostly me bringing up the average. I'm great:cool:

Wickabee
07-11-2012, 08:11 PM
Yeah, well, we Americans are.......um....well....

USA, USA, USA!!!!

One thing I greatly envy about Americans is the USA chant. Every time I hear it I wish I was American so I was allowed to get pumped up over it. Chanting CA-NA-DA just isn't the same at all.


You will get no argument from me on that.

Good, because I can't back up my claim whatsoever.

Wickabee
07-11-2012, 08:13 PM
Also, drunkenly shouting, "I thought this was Canada," while being arrested just doesn't have the same effect as, "I though this was America."

mrveggieman
07-11-2012, 08:25 PM
And once again you insult me, as staff and the MRM you should know to hold yourself to better standards and I shall leave it at that ...

All right gentlemen. Time to kiss and make up. :hug:

theonedru
07-11-2012, 10:44 PM
from the article

" funding that goes to programs that work to prevent domestic abuse and rape."

How exactly are these programs supposed to work to prevent abuse does anyone know exactly, and exactly how effective are they? If you do not naturally know that abusing someone is wrong then no program is going to help you. And if the abuse has already occurred then the program is also useless considering its for preventative measures...

habsheaven
07-11-2012, 11:38 PM
Perhaps the intent of the program is to give women the tools to end the domestic violence that is already occurring and in doing so prevent more abuse in the future. Regardless, if that is now your argument in favour of ending the programs I think you are grasping at straws.


from the article

" funding that goes to programs that work to prevent domestic abuse and rape."

How exactly are these programs supposed to work to prevent abuse does anyone know exactly, and exactly how effective are they? If you do not naturally know that abusing someone is wrong then no program is going to help you. And if the abuse has already occurred then the program is also useless considering its for preventative measures...

duane1969
07-11-2012, 11:44 PM
Didn't read all of the comments here or the entire article. I read the first few lines and immediately became confused. How do you fund the prevention of abuse and rape? Aren't these crimes that pretty much are something that can only be dealt with after they happen? I can see funding shelters, battered women sactuaries, etc. but I don't understand how you fund the prevention of these things.

EDIT: Ah, I see that theonedru already posed the same question.

theonedru
07-11-2012, 11:51 PM
Didn't read all of the comments here or the entire article. I read the first few lines and immediately became confused. How do you fund the prevention of abuse and rape? Aren't these crimes that pretty much are something that can only be dealt with after they happen? I can see funding shelters, battered women sactuaries, etc. but I don't understand how you fund the prevention of these things.

EDIT: Ah, I see that theonedru already posed the same question.

Should I be scared that we are in agreement rather than the usual butting of heads? I think hell just got a few degrees cooler

theonedru
07-11-2012, 11:53 PM
Perhaps the intent of the program is to give women the tools to end the domestic violence that is already occurring and in doing so prevent more abuse in the future. Regardless, if that is now your argument in favour of ending the programs I think you are grasping at straws.

My statement makes perfectly logical sense in regards to the issues within the article. Its the article you should have issues with not me.

habsheaven
07-11-2012, 11:54 PM
Okay, I give up. You two are right, it's a total waste of money. Silly me thinking that counselling women in bad situations might help them avoid being battered and abused.:sign0202:

habsheaven
07-11-2012, 11:59 PM
What are you talking about? The article states that these add-ons only benefit a small portion of the state population and are therefore a waste. It makes no mention as to their effectiveness? You brought that up on your own as a defense to agreeing with Haley in not funding them.


My statement makes perfectly logical sense in regards to the issues within the article. Its the article you should have issues with not me.

duane1969
07-12-2012, 02:27 PM
Okay, I give up. You two are right, it's a total waste of money. Silly me thinking that counselling women in bad situations might help them avoid being battered and abused.:sign0202:


her decision to veto critical funding that goes to programs that work to prevent domestic abuse and rape.

funding that prevents domestic abuse and sexual assault

you would think Governor Haley would make preventing rape and domestic abuse a major legislative and executive initiative

All I see in this article is repeated statements that this is about PREVENTING abuse and rape. There is no way to prevent it. I am all for support systems for women who have been abused or raped, I just don't see how you figure out what women are at risk for rape or abuse and provide them with prevention counseling.

habsheaven
07-12-2012, 02:43 PM
All I see in this article is repeated statements that this is about PREVENTING abuse and rape. There is no way to prevent it. I am all for support systems for women who have been abused or raped, I just don't see how you figure out what women are at risk for rape or abuse and provide them with prevention counseling.

Okay I will state it again. When the woman calls 911 to report domestic violence and the cops show up ... BINGO!!! you just found a woman at risk. Did you prevent the first beating? No. Do you now have an opportunity to PREVENT the 2nd, 3rd and 4th beatings? Yes, you do (or at least you did when there were programs in place).

Wickabee
07-12-2012, 03:17 PM
Okay I will state it again. When the woman calls 911 to report domestic violence and the cops show up ... BINGO!!! you just found a woman at risk. Did you prevent the first beating? No. Do you now have an opportunity to PREVENT the 2nd, 3rd and 4th beatings? Yes, you do (or at least you did when there were programs in place).

Guys, I think we're in an argument over semantics.

Seriously, this argument is going like this:
"These programs are to prevent abuse!"
"They can't prevent abuse! They can only help those who've been abused!"
"They can prevent further abuse!"
"That's not prevention! That's ending abuse!"
"It's the same thing!"
"No it's not!"

Personally, I think it is preventing abuse. If a wife-beater gets thrown in jail, is that not to "prevent" him from beating his wife? At the end of the day, though, it's pure semantics. Whether you call it prevention of abuse or ending abuse, it's necessary and a very bad decision was made.
I wonder if Haley at all played the "women's issues" card when running...

habsheaven
07-12-2012, 03:59 PM
I do not even know why they took the thread down the "does it work?" road. The only reason Haley does not support the programs is that it doesn't affect enough people and is therefore not worth the cost. THAT is what the article states. It says nothing about anyone criticizing the programs effectiveness.

Wickabee
07-12-2012, 05:21 PM
I do not even know why they took the thread down the "does it work?" road. The only reason Haley does not support the programs is that it doesn't affect enough people and is therefore not worth the cost. THAT is what the article states. It says nothing about anyone criticizing the programs effectiveness.

Hey, I'm with you all the way on this one. Unfortunately this has gone beyond constructive discussion to a you're-wrong-no-you're-wrong back and forth. You're absolutely correct, though, that this shouldn't have anything to do with whether it works (and even at that, we're all sort of agreeing in principle but not in wording). The issue at hand is "it doesn't help enough of the population" isn't a real argument in this area. There are issues where that is a valid concern, but I highly doubt there is a state, even a city, where that's true about support for abused women (to PREVENT it from happening again).


I don't know how many of you watch ever trash talk shows, but you know the (not particular, but many of the same type) girl who's on Springer weekly complaining that her boyfriend cheats on her and abuses her verbally/emotionally/physically who, when told to just leave him says, "But I love him".
Nothing is going to prevent what has already happened to this girl. She has been abused and no program is a time machine. However, with the proper support programs that girl can get help and there's a WAY better chance of her getting out of that relationship than having the crowd at Maury yell at her.

While it's true that the programs still may not help, it's even truer that with no program the government has said she's not worth helping. People not worth helping are very few and very far between.