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JustAlex
07-24-2012, 06:57 AM
So, just a mere 4 years ago I was a strong believer in Yahweh, Jesus, and the Bible......I was a Theist.

Slowly but surely, my belief and faith in the Christian god disappeared and i had a new name.....Atheist!


At first I really disliked this term, after all here in the U.S, Atheists are the MOST HATED, most distrusted group.

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/09/19/research-finds-that-atheists-are-most-hated-and-distrusted-minority/


I went from being in the loving majority to the most hated minority.


But, I wanted to play a little game with everyone:

Which of the following Gods do you guys believe in?

A) Allah
B) Krishna
C) Thor
D) Zeus
E) Horus

If you answered "None of the Above"......what would that make you? (An atheist?)

OK, OK.....I cheated, I left out hundreds of gods and demi-gods too......but, let me get this straight, you can be a Theist if you believe in ONE god and NOT believe in every single other god, but the second you stop believing in that ONE god you turn into something completely different and are hated/distrusted by your fellow countrymen.

Hmm...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0A4_bwCaX0&feature=plcp

^Inspiration for this thread comes from this video which I viewed many years ago.

mrveggieman
07-24-2012, 09:21 AM
Obviously I'm not an atheist but I can understand and respect why someone would become an atheist. Look at all of these right wing loons who do dumb things claiming to do it in God's names. Terrorist who murder innocent people. White supremicists who kill jews and minorities. Extremist christians who hate gays and minorities. And you wonder why God dosen't want to get involved anymore.

Wickabee
07-24-2012, 01:31 PM
Well, you can be:
Monotheist and believe in one God or
Polytheist and believe in more than one God or
Atheist and believe in no God

Just like you can be:
Heterosexual/Homosexual (monosexual) and prefer one sex or
Bisexual and prefer both or
Asexual and prefer neither


So, you see as far as "something different" goes, believing in one God is different than believing in two or many just as believing in none is. As far as hated/distrusted by your fellow man, that's up to those fellow men and whether your atheist, monotheist, polytheist, hetrosexual, homosexual, asexual, white, black, asian, tall, short, fat, thin, college educated, high school educated, completely uneducated, rich poor, a driver, a bike rider, vegetarian, vegan, guitarist, drummer, bassis, singer, pianist, cat lover, dog lover or named "Fred" someone is going to hate you for it. People who hate you for these reasons are wrong and not worth your time. They should hate you for your personality and views.

I'm kidding on that last sentence, but you get it.

JerS86
07-25-2012, 02:44 AM
But, I wanted to play a little game with everyone:

Which of the following Gods do you guys believe in?

A) Allah
B) Krishna
C) Thor
D) Zeus
E) Horus

If you answered "None of the Above"......what would that make you? (An atheist?)

not believing in a god created and named by man doesn't mean you're an atheist, it means you're wise.

Rowdy Gentleman
07-25-2012, 02:54 AM
There's so many Puritans that following society's standards to religion is sometimes unbearable. I personally think Atheist is an extreme, don't get me wrong, so is being Puritan, but hey, different strokes for different folks. I just think that science proves religion more times than not.

Religion comes with an invisible backpack, like it or not.

theonedru
07-25-2012, 04:58 AM
People in general do not hate atheists or people of a religious nature.They hate the ignorant people that try and represent them claiming their closed minded views represent the entire spectrum.... Since I cannot post a direct link due to a scene that shows a naked man I can tell you to go to youtube and type in these keywords (or copy and paste the words)

1 giant leap - the way you dream / god/unity (michael stipe, tim booth, asha bhosle).

its 10:45 long but its unlike any explanation of religion you have ever seen. It is just beautiful in its all, seeing everyday people explaining their faiths and beliefs and how they really are not that different

mrveggieman
07-25-2012, 09:05 AM
not believing in a god created and named by man doesn't mean you're an atheist, it means you're wise.

Dude are you serious?

JerS86
07-25-2012, 09:20 AM
Dude are you serious?

what makes you think it wasn't serious? worshiping a man created god is silly is all i meant.

shrewsbury
07-25-2012, 09:31 AM
ya, worshiping a man created by God is silly.

JerS86
07-25-2012, 09:36 AM
ya, worshiping a man created by God is silly.

which man-made god do you worship? jishnu, yahweh, alah...? just curious.

mrveggieman
07-25-2012, 09:43 AM
which man-made god do you worship? jishnu, yahweh, alah...? just curious.

Are you saying that worshiping anything is silly or are you saying that if you don't follow a particular religion you are being silly?

JerS86
07-25-2012, 09:50 AM
Are you saying that worshiping anything is silly or are you saying that if you don't follow a particular religion you are being silly?

well, i'm an atheist and don't worship anything. i'm not saying there is anything wrong with theism. i just think it's a little silly to worship something that was created and actually named by a human(s). that's all.

edit: ps. i was just being a jerk with that post you quoted

shrewsbury
07-25-2012, 09:56 AM
JerS86, I worship no God created by man, but rather the God that created man, and I am unsure if I would use the word worship, more like respect, appreciation, and love.

which is fine if you don't, and if you don't I don;t think you are silly, just different than I am.

JerS86
07-25-2012, 10:04 AM
JerS86, I worship no God created by man, but rather the God that created man, and I am unsure if I would use the word worship, more like respect, appreciation, and love.

which is fine if you don't, and if you don't I don;t think you are silly, just different than I am.

good for you. i actually respect the opinions of theists that don't follow a certain "religion"

mrveggieman
07-25-2012, 10:07 AM
well, i'm an atheist and don't worship anything. i'm not saying there is anything wrong with theism. i just think it's a little silly to worship something that was created and actually named by a human(s). that's all.

Like I said eairlier I am not an atheist but I can understand why someone would be. I apologize but I thought that since you didnt mention a particular god i thought that you were saying that all other gods are false except for yours. One the cool one thing that i do like about atheists is that they are consistent about their beliefs.

Triple Peanut
07-25-2012, 11:51 AM
science makes way too much sense for me to believe in a god. i feel like the bible, quran, torah, etc were all written in the days before there was technology to explain things with science. if religion helps you be the person you want to be i can respect that choice but it's not for me.

Wickabee
07-25-2012, 02:41 PM
God and religion have very little to do with each other. Religion is man's way of explaining something (God) that man can't. Maybe one day science will be able to explain God, and I do mean explain. Not disprove, not credit to some occurance in the universe, explain.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 04:11 PM
So, just a mere 4 years ago I was a strong believer in Yahweh, Jesus, and the Bible......I was a Theist.

Slowly but surely, my belief and faith in the Christian god disappeared and i had a new name.....Atheist!


At first I really disliked this term, after all here in the U.S, Atheists are the MOST HATED, most distrusted group.

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/09/19/research-finds-that-atheists-are-most-hated-and-distrusted-minority/


I went from being in the loving majority to the most hated minority.


But, I wanted to play a little game with everyone:

Which of the following Gods do you guys believe in?

A) Allah
B) Krishna
C) Thor
D) Zeus
E) Horus

If you answered "None of the Above"......what would that make you? (An atheist?)

OK, OK.....I cheated, I left out hundreds of gods and demi-gods too......but, let me get this straight, you can be a Theist if you believe in ONE god and NOT believe in every single other god, but the second you stop believing in that ONE god you turn into something completely different and are hated/distrusted by your fellow countrymen.

Hmm...




I feel very sorry for you. atheism is the biggest lie of the Great Liar, his name is Lucifer. Lucifer was the greatest of all the angels, which were created to serve God. He was the most beautiful, and was the leader of praise and worship of ABBA Father.

The first sin was pride. Lucifer's pride was that he was greater than God, rebelled, took 1/3 of the angels with him(Reptillians/UFO's/aliens) and was cast down to the Earth, and given rule over it.

You have fallen for Lucifer's great lie. We are NOT to look to other Christians as our examples, or even examples of Christians. Jesus was God taking on the flesh of man, so that He would be OUR EXAMPLE. We are to look to Jesus as our example, not the catholic church, not the Baptist Church, not the Methodist Church, not any church. We are not to look to preachers as our example, we are not to look to priests as our example.

Lucifer corrupts all. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. The Hebrews had to sacrifice an unblemished lamb, and other things, to make payment for their sins. Jesus was the Lamb of God, making complete and final payment for the sins of those who would believe that He is The Son of God, that He died on the Cross, was Risen on the Third Day, and sits on His Heavenly Throne, acting as your lawyer before God if you believe in Him.


Jehova cannot be in the presence of sin. This is why Lucifer was cast out of Heaven, and this is why God gave Moses the Law. But the law was corrupted by man, and therefore, God sent His Son as The Sacrifice, so that all who believed in Him would be cleansed of sin. You have to make this choice in this life, so that you can be with God in the afterlife. If your sins are not cleansed by the Blood of Jesus, you will be eternally separated from God. Hell is that eternal separation. God does not intend for you to go there, but he cannot make that decision for you. Only you can make it.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 04:17 PM
God and religion have very little to do with each other. Religion is man's way of explaining something (God) that man can't. Maybe one day science will be able to explain God, and I do mean explain. Not disprove, not credit to some occurance in the universe, explain.

Science is man's explanation of the things God created. evolution is a theory, not law. Gravity is a law, explaining the force that holds the universe together. The Big Bang, as Science calls it, is how God created the universe. It is against Scientific law that SOMETHING could be created out of NOTHING. Only ABBA Father can do this. Science is only man trying to figure it out.

Are you going to honestly tell me that we are just here because of randomness? How is this Earth so perfect that it heals itself? How is our body so perfect that it heals itself? What are the probabilites that this Earth would be the perfect environment for us? God gave us the stars for the view. He gave us everything for our enjoyment.

We only get sick and die because of sin. Scientists have found that our bodies were designed to last forever, and can't figure out why we age and die. I can tell you why, because sin seperated us from God, and therefore, our body must perish. But if you have faith in Jesus Christ, you will receive a new body when he changes this world. The Earth will never be destroyed, it will only be changed, like in the days of Noah. Jesus will remove sin when he defeats the Anti-Christ and his prophet, and binds Satan/Lucifer in the abyss for 1,000 years. After that, satan will be defeated, and we will live with Christ forever and ever.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 04:24 PM
science makes way too much sense for me to believe in a god. i feel like the bible, quran, torah, etc were all written in the days before there was technology to explain things with science. if religion helps you be the person you want to be i can respect that choice but it's not for me.

I don't want to be righteous. It is man's nature to sin. Trust me, I would love to enjoy the things of the flesh. However, that is not what God wants. You can be saved and still sin(though intentional sin is not a sign of a saved person), but sin seperates you from the relationship with ABBA Father. Sin is a fog that will seperate you from walking in the Spirit. And every saved person will have to deal with sin until he/she leaves this Earth. Jesus showed that hate for your fellow man is commiting murder in your heart. That is sin. Jesus showed us that looking upon a woman with lust is sin, you have commited lust/adultry in your heart. These are the whisperings of Lucifer, and will continue until he is destroyed.

Read Genesis again. It is a perfect explanation for how our world was created. Yes, they couldn't explain in detail with the technology we have today, but Science only shows us HOW God did what he did.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 04:38 PM
well, i'm an atheist and don't worship anything. i'm not saying there is anything wrong with theism. i just think it's a little silly to worship something that was created and actually named by a human(s). that's all.

edit: ps. i was just being a jerk with that post you quoted

ABBA Father/Elohim is His name. Yeshua Hamaschia is His Son sent here to die as a sacrifice for those who believed in Him. These things weren't created by humans. Dozens of Prophets over hundreds and even thousands of years were filled with the Holy Spirit to reveal the Father/Son/Holy Spirit to man. Prophecies over hundreds and even thousands of years came to be fullfilled in Yeshua Hamaschia, Jesus the Christ.

Things the Old Prophets and Jesus foretold are coming to pass in our lifetime.

-the Rebirth of Israel
-the language of Hebrew being spoken again
-earthquakes and famines in diverse places
(earthquakes over the last century are increasing greatly in number and magnitude)

-the arab alliance that will be led by the Kings of the North(Russia) against Jerusalem
(look to the coming war with Syria as evidence of that prophecy about to come to pass. Russian naval fleets are there, as are many land forces. Egypt just fell to mooslims, libya as well, turkey quit being a secular nation a few years ago, and are now led by mooslims. Jordan is actually land promised to Israel.)

-the Kings of the East will lead 200,000,000 men against Jerusalem after 5/6 of the arab/northern army are defeated by God
(think China and their vast army which is quickly being built up. they are also partnered with iran, which is against Jerusalem)

-Damascus will become a smoldering heap
(Damascus is the oldest continual living city, and this has not happened yet. look at the coming war in Syria, it will be fullfilled soon)

-Jerusalem will become a Trembling Cup, of which the nations of the world will drink
(every president since....Nixon? or earlier has forced Israel to make concessions to terrorists. the U.N. and E.U. have tried to tell Israel what to do for decades)

The list goes on. Do you need more?

mrveggieman
07-26-2012, 04:39 PM
Read Genesis again. It is a perfect explanation for how our world was created. Yes, they couldn't explain in detail with the technology we have today, but Science only shows us HOW God did what he did.

Genesis is actually one of my favorite books in the bible. However whenever I quote something that goes against what is comfortable for most christians, they respond back and say they ignore that part of the bible because it is null and void. :confused0024::confused0024:

shrewsbury
07-26-2012, 04:41 PM
null and void or not as important as Jesus?

Wickabee
07-26-2012, 04:43 PM
Science is man's explanation of the things God created. evolution is a theory, not law. Gravity is a law, explaining the force that holds the universe together. The Big Bang, as Science calls it, is how God created the universe. It is against Scientific law that SOMETHING could be created out of NOTHING. Only ABBA Father can do this. Science is only man trying to figure it out.

Are you going to honestly tell me that we are just here because of randomness? How is this Earth so perfect that it heals itself? How is our body so perfect that it heals itself? What are the probabilites that this Earth would be the perfect environment for us? God gave us the stars for the view. He gave us everything for our enjoyment.

...


I don't know what post you read, but it sure wasn't mine. I said science is man's way of trying to explain God. Everything we currently know about God through science; evolution, gravity, big bang, tell us how he's done things, like bring us to being (evolution), and hold the universe together (gravity) after creating it (the big bang theory). Each new thing science teaches us brings us one step closer to being able to understand what God is and why he would do all this. We're still stuck on the "how" and that's fine. I imagine (and no, I don't think the earth is 6000 years old) that in the grand scheme of things, we haven't had tons of time to figure it out, plus a lot of the time we have had, we've wasted.

Too many people see it as Science vs God. That's not true at all. Science is God's gift of understanding to mankind.


We only get sick and die because of sin. Scientists have found that our bodies were designed to last forever, and can't figure out why we age and die. I can tell you why, because sin seperated us from God, and therefore, our body must perish. But if you have faith in Jesus Christ, you will receive a new body when he changes this world. The Earth will never be destroyed, it will only be changed, like in the days of Noah. Jesus will remove sin when he defeats the Anti-Christ and his prophet, and binds Satan/Lucifer in the abyss for 1,000 years. After that, satan will be defeated, and we will live with Christ forever and ever.

That's the story, yes. Not sure how it's relevant here...

habsheaven
07-26-2012, 04:46 PM
Just when I am starting to feel a sense of understanding of Jay's beliefs along comes this. Talk about taking a step backwards in your level of understanding. I gotta stop venturing down to the deep side of the pool, it's bloody scary.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 04:49 PM
Obviously I'm not an atheist but I can understand and respect why someone would become an atheist. Look at all of these right wing loons who do dumb things claiming to do it in God's names. Terrorist who murder innocent people. White supremicists who kill jews and minorities. Extremist christians who hate gays and minorities. And you wonder why God dosen't want to get involved anymore.

What about the Reverand Martin Luther King Jr.? He was one of the biggest womanizers ever. Would you disregard everything he said and stood for because of the way he treated women? Or his own wife for that matter? He was a Reverand, but did not act like one. Should that mean we should discount everything he stood up for because of the actions of a sinner? Would you ignore all his great speeches because he did not act as a Christian should?

And look at the "Reverand" al sharpton or jesse jackson. They are some of the most racist vile pieces of dung ever!! And they call themselves "Reverands". jesse jackson had an out of wedlock child, and was bill clinton's "spiritual advisor". No wonder. They were both extreme womanizers. Those are bigotry and sexist actions against women. And they do not follow Dr. King either. They judge by the content of the skin, not the character of the heart.

al sharpton and jesse jackson don't tell blacks to stop attacking whites in mobs. Why is that? They are judging by the content of the skin, not the character of the heart. And what about rap music? It promotes a "thug" lifestyle, full of drug addiction, money worship, and treating women like pieces of meat or far worse. Where is the outcry of that? Why do these 2 refuse to speak out about this? Yes they give Christianity a bad name, but should that mean we ignore God and Christ because of it?

Why don't black preachers tell black men to own up to their responsibilities? Why do some black men have 10 kids with 8 women, and pay for no child support? Why do their "Reverands" not speak out about this?

Jesus said if a man does not work, he shall not eat. The Old Testament care for orphans, widows, and the poor was for farmers to only harvest the central areas of their crops. These people would then come and pick for themselves the corners and edges of the fields, and prepare their food themselves. Not sit around the house waiting for a check to buy lotto tickets, alcohol, and whatever else they want.

Allen West is right. They perpetuate a "new plantation" for the democrats, to keep blacks down, ignorant, hateful, racist, and continually voting for democrats as "their saviours". If that's not the most horrible form of racism in America today, I don't know what is.

The democrat party is the most racist organazation, outside the New Black Panthers and the KKK.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 04:52 PM
...


I don't know what post you read, but it sure wasn't mine. I said science is man's way of trying to explain God. Everything we currently know about God through science; evolution, gravity, big bang, tell us how he's done things, like bring us to being (evolution), and hold the universe together (gravity) after creating it (the big bang theory). Each new thing science teaches us brings us one step closer to being able to understand what God is and why he would do all this. We're still stuck on the "how" and that's fine. I imagine (and no, I don't think the earth is 6000 years old) that in the grand scheme of things, we haven't had tons of time to figure it out, plus a lot of the time we have had, we've wasted.

Too many people see it as Science vs God. That's not true at all. Science is God's gift of understanding to mankind.



That's the story, yes. Not sure how it's relevant here...




Sorry, I may have made assumptions because of your previous comment. I may have quoted it earlier in my reply. I'll try to find it and add to this post.


Edit: Wow! I did make an assumption, and didn't even read your post fully, even though I quoted it. I think we're on the same page, but I for some reason thought otherwise. My apologies sir. I'm in a hurry, and must have misinterpreted your post.

mrveggieman
07-26-2012, 04:55 PM
null and void or not as important as Jesus?

Everything is important. Jesus even said something to the effect of how are you going to listen to me if you don't listen to the words of moses which is what he goes by. It just makes no sense if you ask me.

mrveggieman
07-26-2012, 04:58 PM
What about the Reverand Martin Luther King Jr.? He was one of the biggest womanizers ever. Would you disregard everything he said and stood for because of the way he treated women? And look at the "Reverand" al sharpton or jesse jackson. They are some of the most racist vile pieces of dung ever!! And they call themselves "Reverands". jesse jackson had an out of wedlock child, and was bill clinton's "spiritual advisor". No wonder. They were both extreme womanizers. Those are bigotry and sexist actions against women.

al sharpton and jesse jackson don't tell blacks to stop attacking whites in mobs. Why is that? And what about rap music? It promotes a "thug" lifestyle, full of drug addiction, money worship, and treating women like pieces of meat or far worse. Where is the outcry of that?

Why don't black preachers tell black men to own up to their responsibilities? Why do some black men have 10 kids with 8 women, and pay for no child support? Why do working people have to pay for this? Jesus said if a man does not work, he shall not eat. The Old Testament care for orphans, widows, and the like was for farmers to only harvest the central areas of their crops. These people would then come and pick for themselves the corners and edges of the fields, and prepare their food themselves. Not sit around the house waiting for a check to buy lotto tickets, alcohol, and whatever else they want.

Where is the outcry from black preachers on this? Especially al sharpton and jesse jackson. Allen West is right. They perpetuate a "new plantation" for the democrats, to keep blacks down, ignorant, hateful, racist, and continually voting for democrats as "their saviours". If that's not the most horrible form of racism in America today, I don't know what is.

The democrat party is the most racist organazation, outside the New Black Panthers and the KKK.

Somebody stop serving this man the kool aid!!

Wickabee
07-26-2012, 05:05 PM
Sorry, I may have made assumptions because of your previous comment. I may have quoted it earlier in my reply. I'll try to find it and add to this post.


Edit: Wow! I did make an assumption, and didn't even read your post fully, even though I quoted it. I think we're on the same page, but I for some reason thought otherwise. My apologies sir. I'm in a hurry, and must have misinterpreted your post.

I'm pretty sure you took a slight offense to "God and religion have very little to do with each other" and figured I was an atheist. I'm not, I believe in a god, I'm just not pretentious enough to think I can even begin to imagine who or what he is. Unfortunately, for every person like me, there's a million who will tell you they do know. Funny thing about that, none of them seem to agree.
My point in that statement was something you touched on either in this thread or elsewhere. Do not judge god's existence based on religion. Man has done some horrible, awful things under the guise of god. Saying "Jesus" after hitting your thumb with the hammer isn't taking the lord's name in vain. What religions have done and continue to do is taking the lord's name in vain. God is amazing. Religions are terrible.

At the same time, I would never judge a person for being a member of any religion, nor would I want to take away their right to do so. Religious freedom is as important to me as freedom of thought, speech and expression, because it is made up of all of those. Myself though, I could never be a member of a particular religion.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 05:06 PM
null and void or not as important as Jesus?

In the Book of John, the first few verses read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men, And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

If my understanding is correct, Jesus is the Word, and was with God, and was God. As God made all things, the Word made all things because He was with, and was, God. Therefore, Jesus created the universe because He was God. Therefore, Genesis is neither null and void, nor not as important as Jesus, because Jesus created the universe because He was God.

God is past, present, and future. God is the same in the Old Testament, and the New. The only difference is Jesus gave us 2 new Commandments, that if kept, will keep you fullfilling the original 10:

1. You shall love the Lord your God with all your Hear, all your Mind, all your Spirit
2. You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

If you walk in these commandments, you will fullfill the original 10. This means not to hate homosexuals, and any Christian doesn't. They hate the corruption that is forced onto their Christian lifestyle, not the person. The homosexual agenda is what Christians hate, not the homosexuals themselves. And this is because God judged Sodom and Ghomorra, because of their sexual sins. If America continues down the path of homosexuality, America will be continually under God's judgement.

Just as the Bible says, "I will Bless those who bless you(Israel), and Curse those who curse you." As long as America continues to force Israel to go against God's will by giving Promised Land to pagans, America will be under God's judgement.

But, "If My people, who are called by My Name, repent, and ask Me to heal their land, I will." Or something very similar.

Jesus is the Light that shineth into the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not. I hope all atheists & homosexuals will come out of the darkness, and into the Light of Jesus Christ.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 05:39 PM
Somebody stop serving this man the kool aid!!

Nice deflection, but fails to answer the question at hand. Call me a racist if you want, just more deflection. But what about Alan West? He is a black man, and he has said the exact same things.

It's easy to try to derail the conversation, but the important question is "Why"? You called white Christians racists, but what about black Christians? Are many not racist as well? Did I not just point out 2 "Reverands" that are black and are racist? Is it not racist to encourage by silence the many black mobs attacking whites all over the country?

They are sure quick to call George Zimmerman a racist, even though he is part black, part Jew, and part Hispanic, but why do they refuse to call on their own people to stop violent racism?

Wickabee
07-26-2012, 05:47 PM
Can we all just agree that everyone is racist to some degree or other and get on with our lives?

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 06:01 PM
I'm pretty sure you took a slight offense to "God and religion have very little to do with each other" and figured I was an atheist. I'm not, I believe in a god, I'm just not pretentious enough to think I can even begin to imagine who or what he is. Unfortunately, for every person like me, there's a million who will tell you they do know. Funny thing about that, none of them seem to agree.
My point in that statement was something you touched on either in this thread or elsewhere. Do not judge god's existence based on religion. Man has done some horrible, awful things under the guise of god. Saying "Jesus" after hitting your thumb with the hammer isn't taking the lord's name in vain. What religions have done and continue to do is taking the lord's name in vain. God is amazing. Religions are terrible.

At the same time, I would never judge a person for being a member of any religion, nor would I want to take away their right to do so. Religious freedom is as important to me as freedom of thought, speech and expression, because it is made up of all of those. Myself though, I could never be a member of a particular religion.

Well, we are pretty much on the same page. I agree God has nothing to do with religion. Lucifer corrupts through the Church, but that is why the Light needs to be shined in the Church most of all. Your statement is very similar to what many "Theists" believe, and I'm not sure that is a good definer either. Atheists say Thomas Jefferson was a "Theist", but in his own quote he does say he is a Christian, and that people in his time were wrong to call him otherwise.

I assumed by that quote that you leaned more to the "Theist" side of things. I listen to Michael Savage a LOT. I would say he ascribes himself to a similar notion as you. He is of Jewish heritage and blood, but I doubt he goes to Synagogue. He reads from the New Testament on air, as he does the Old Testament, however he is not a Christian. He does not believe that Jesus was The Son of God. It is these types of beliefs that I believe still lead people in a dangerous direction, and I assumed that you may have held similar beliefs. I believe that the coming World Religion will possibly hijack this type of thinking and saying we all believe in the same God. That hindu, islam, buddha, Christianity, Judiasm, everything is all worshiping the same god and we are all one. This, I believe, will be the False One World Religion that is prophesized in the Bible.

I don't think of myself as a religous person. I don't attend Chruch(even though I should find one I agree with), but I read the Word, listen to the Word being preached on radio and t.v., and verify EVERYTHING from everyone. I still struggle with sin, I still question whether I'm saved because the Great Liar can still produce doubt in my heart. I am overcoming it, I won't say I've overcome it, because as long as the Liar is in the world, he will try to create doubt in my heart. I'm pretty sure I'm past that now though.


On religion, I could poke many holes in Catholisism. Am I saying many Catholics aren't saved? No. I'm not their judge. Their church is ruled by sun-god worshippers(Jesuits), has been since the Roman times(Venetian Black Nobility). The pope holds the twisted cross(satanic), has seashell buttons on his robe(satanic), many older catholic churches have a pie with 8(demonic) slices over the entrance, and the sun is their symbol(Lucifer was son of the morning star)(CIA symbol is a star because they are Jesuits and satanic). They chose Sun-Day as the "new" Sabbath, when the Bible says Saturday is the Sabbath. They say it's because Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday, but I fail to see how that matters. Jesus was a practicing Jew, and did not say to worship on any other day but the Sabbath. Does that mean we go to hell? No. But I'm trying to get back to the basics.

I could go on about many Protestant religions as well. Much of Christian "religion" today is the same as Jewish "religion" was in Jesus' time. The Pharises & Sadducces had corrupted the Law of Moses, were stealing through the Temple(God's House where His Glory rested), and were an abomination before God. The money changers(today=banksters, Venetian Black Nobility) were in God's Holy House, and that is the only time Jesus got violent. That is why they had Jesus killed. Jesus wanted to bring people to God, not to a building. But to have that relationship, we have to be Believers, Repent, and continually scrub sin from our heart.


Jesus said to give in secret.
Jesus said to go into your closet to pray.
Jesus chastized the pharisees because they would not allow poor people to church because of their attire, lack of wealth, etc. Who sits in churches these days? Drive Lexus, wear Rolex, look down upon "poor" people, or sinners, who actually need to be in church the most.

And don't get me started on "Faith Healers" like Benny Hinn. That is some of the most disgusting garbage I've ever seen. Many televangelists only collect money. They are the new money changers........

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 06:07 PM
Everything is important. Jesus even said something to the effect of how are you going to listen to me if you don't listen to the words of moses which is what he goes by. It just makes no sense if you ask me.


What about it makes no sense? I'd like to help if I could, or maybe someone else can help it make sense.

shrewsbury
07-26-2012, 06:14 PM
jesse, though I somewhat agree with what you are saying, and actually kind of like it, my biggest issue is time. we will never fully understand Jesus in our time on earth, but the closer we can get, I believe, the better we are. Not because I am worried about burning in hell, but because I believe He is my creator, my closest ally, and obviously the why I am even here.

Because of this I think it is important to try and understand what Jesus was about and what he taught others while He was here. The New Testament is full of so much information that I could spend over a lifetime just learning from a few pages. Also I believe there is a strong possibility of sources for the teaching of Jesus outside of the Bible. There is no one who can claim to know what Jesus meant in all His teachings, so why should I not spend my life trying to figure this out?

Though I am somewhat knowledgeable about the OT, I simply do not have the time to break it down and study, research, and personally debate all the things within, no one has that type of time.

So Jesus' teachings take priority in my understanding of God. Also it is obvious that the OT is the old covenant with God, while Jesus' teachings are the new and is what is relevant to me. I am not trying to belittle the OT, just trying to prioritize things. I would rather know a few things well, then know a little about a whole bunch of things.

I do enjoy your posting and would love to continue a discussion aout religion with you.

please feel free to start a new thread, I would love to pick your brain about a few things, and if you don't mind getting a it dirty you may want to pick mine as well.

jessejordan419
07-26-2012, 08:04 PM
jesse, though I somewhat agree with what you are saying, and actually kind of like it, my biggest issue is time. we will never fully understand Jesus in our time on earth, but the closer we can get, I believe, the better we are. Not because I am worried about burning in hell, but because I believe He is my creator, my closest ally, and obviously the why I am even here.

Because of this I think it is important to try and understand what Jesus was about and what he taught others while He was here. The New Testament is full of so much information that I could spend over a lifetime just learning from a few pages. Also I believe there is a strong possibility of sources for the teaching of Jesus outside of the Bible. There is no one who can claim to know what Jesus meant in all His teachings, so why should I not spend my life trying to figure this out?

Though I am somewhat knowledgeable about the OT, I simply do not have the time to break it down and study, research, and personally debate all the things within, no one has that type of time.

So Jesus' teachings take priority in my understanding of God. Also it is obvious that the OT is the old covenant with God, while Jesus' teachings are the new and is what is relevant to me. I am not trying to belittle the OT, just trying to prioritize things. I would rather know a few things well, then know a little about a whole bunch of things.

I do enjoy your posting and would love to continue a discussion aout religion with you.

please feel free to start a new thread, I would love to pick your brain about a few things, and if you don't mind getting a it dirty you may want to pick mine as well.


Hehehe, I also wish for more time. I have wasted so much of my youth pursuing pleasure instead of learning and growing. I can't have those years back, but God "causes all things to work for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose".

To tell you the truth, I wish I would read more myself. I spend a lot of time hearing other people's interpretations, because, even if I read it myself, I wouldn't get the same knowledge or view that they got. The ministers that I watch or listen to most are: Charles Stanley, Adrian Rogers, Hal Lindsey, and I used to watch Jack Van Impe and John Haggee, but they are too worked up for me.

You are right though, you could spend your whole life just trying to live by "The Sermon On The Mount" alone, let alone the rest of the NT. And the same Scripture will give you different understanding as you grow, or just as you age and experience different things in life.

I'm very glad to see others here that are open to discussion. I'll try to find topics of discussion that are less "Conspiracy" related and more helpful. I get sidetracked by "trying to figure it all out", when I should be learning and spreading God's Word.........

JustAlex
07-26-2012, 11:24 PM
I feel very sorry for you. atheism is the biggest lie of the Great Liar, his name is Lucifer. Lucifer was the greatest of all the angels, which were created to serve God. He was the most beautiful, and was the leader of praise and worship of ABBA Father.

The first sin was pride. Lucifer's pride was that he was greater than God, rebelled, took 1/3 of the angels with him(Reptillians/UFO's/aliens) and was cast down to the Earth, and given rule over it.

You have fallen for Lucifer's great lie. We are NOT to look to other Christians as our examples, or even examples of Christians. Jesus was God taking on the flesh of man, so that He would be OUR EXAMPLE. We are to look to Jesus as our example, not the catholic church, not the Baptist Church, not the Methodist Church, not any church. We are not to look to preachers as our example, we are not to look to priests as our example.

Lucifer corrupts all. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. The Hebrews had to sacrifice an unblemished lamb, and other things, to make payment for their sins. Jesus was the Lamb of God, making complete and final payment for the sins of those who would believe that He is The Son of God, that He died on the Cross, was Risen on the Third Day, and sits on His Heavenly Throne, acting as your lawyer before God if you believe in Him.


Jehova cannot be in the presence of sin. This is why Lucifer was cast out of Heaven, and this is why God gave Moses the Law. But the law was corrupted by man, and therefore, God sent His Son as The Sacrifice, so that all who believed in Him would be cleansed of sin. You have to make this choice in this life, so that you can be with God in the afterlife. If your sins are not cleansed by the Blood of Jesus, you will be eternally separated from God. Hell is that eternal separation. God does not intend for you to go there, but he cannot make that decision for you. Only you can make it.

Please don't, I'm quite happy ever since I rejected my former christian beliefs, and for the first time in my life I truly feel that I'm thinking freely and using reasonable and logical decisions to guide the way I live.

As for the rest of your post, you are free to believe every last word in the Bible, whereas I'm free to not believe any of it.

I was a Christian for many years and I believed exactly like you.

However, I always had my doubts, as a christian I was told to believe and have faith (BLINDLY), with absolutely no evidence to support any of the biblical claims.

I opened my mind and saw that Science has a better explanation on our origins and the origins of the universe.

I'm an atheist because there is no evidence and (IMO) any logical reason to believe in god.

JerS86
07-27-2012, 12:51 AM
Please don't, I'm quite happy ever since I rejected my former christian beliefs, and for the first time in my life I truly feel that I'm thinking freely and using reasonable and logical decisions to guide the way I live.

As for the rest of your post, you are free to believe every last word in the Bible, whereas I'm free to not believe any of it.

I was a Christian for many years and I believed exactly like you.

However, I always had my doubts, as a christian I was told to believe and have faith (BLINDLY), with absolutely no evidence to support any of the biblical claims.

I opened my mind and saw that Science has a better explanation on our origins and the origins of the universe.

I'm an atheist because there is no evidence and (IMO) any logical reason to believe in god.


justalex, don't try to argue with people like him. as tempting as it is to reply to his ramblings it would also be the greatest waste of time imaginable.