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shrewsbury
07-27-2012, 09:44 AM
it seems everybody these days are saying they are for equal rights, but I think not. it is ok to boycott because of peoples views on gays, but no one boycotts anything when it comes to equal rights for christians or polygamists. in fact it is so not equal that anything even closely related to christianity is removed from all public places, renaming christian based holidays, and taking all things christian out of school, to such an extent that the word God should not even be mentioned in a song. and this is not to mention polygamists.

those who are not homosexuals back the homosexuals, but no one backs the christians or polygamists.

I believe most complaints about equal rights or not based on equal rights but rather people wanting to you to accept their views, if it was equal rights then it would be equal for all, you can't choose.

habsheaven
07-27-2012, 10:21 AM
There's a difference between "public" places and "government" places. I am not aware of anyone defending the right to ban christianity in public places. If they did, I would speak against it. When dealing with schools I also have no problem with the casual mention of religion or God. The problem arises when christians want to include religioun in the daily routine. As for "re-naming" holidays; I am totally against that and express it whenever it is brought up. I celebrate Christmas (not in a religious context, rather in a family context).

With regards to polygamy; I also have no problem with adults engaging in the practice. The reason most do not defend the practice is probably due to the perception that polygamy is associated routinely with systematic abuse of young girls.

shrewsbury
07-27-2012, 10:28 AM
habs, good post and my next comments are not meant to call you out, i am just pointing out a few things


polygamy is associated routinely with systematic abuse of young girls.

so it is ok to stereotype polygamists but not stereotype gays or whites or blacks or christians?

mrveggieman
07-27-2012, 10:49 AM
I believe that every should be entitled to live their life as they see fit and have equal opportunities for success or failure for that matter regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual preference, political beliefs or any other trivial matter. The problem that most people have with christians is that since they are the religious majority in this country they want everything to be catered to them. If not they scream discrimination. However a lot of them were silent when they were the ones who openely discriminated againts blacks, gays, women and others. Please do not take this as an inditment against christians but it seems really funny that the same group of people who were completely ok with discriminating against others in the past now cry and moan that they are getting a dose of their own medicine.

habsheaven
07-27-2012, 12:52 PM
habs, good post and my next comments are not meant to call you out, i am just pointing out a few things



so it is ok to stereotype polygamists but not stereotype gays or whites or blacks or christians?

No. It is not okay to stereotype polygamists. I was just pointing out what I think the public's perception of polygamy is because the only time it is in the news, it is regarding the more infamous characters that have been found guilty of criminal acts regarding young girls. As I said, if Jack wants to marry Chrissy and Janet, good for him. I don't have a problem.

mrveggieman
07-27-2012, 12:57 PM
If Jack wants to marry Bob, John, Chrissy, and Jennifer for religious purposes only fine. However if he wants to obtain additional benefits for his extra spouses then I have a problem with it. I just think that allowing legal polygamy would be opening up too many legal issues.

Wickabee
07-27-2012, 03:17 PM
Everyone cries equality but very few actually want it. What most people call equality is really their own interests above all others. Sharpton doesn't want equality, he wants blacks on top. Most...

shrewsbury
07-27-2012, 05:34 PM
wickabee, fair and nice post, thanks for contributing!

Wickabee
07-27-2012, 11:23 PM
It's my belief that everyone on earth is racist. I think racism, or what we think is racism, is built into us. I look at black people differently than I look at white people. I admit it full out. But can any black person honestly say they don't look at white people differently? I've never found one who would say that and I don't think I will. Looking at a person differently because of race is not racism, how you react to what you see is racism. Do I see black people differently? You bet! Asians and Natives too. Do I treat them differently? Not one bit. My thinking is prejudiced based on race, but so are everyone else's. My actions, on the other hand, I am the same person whether you're black, white or whatever. That's where racism lives; in actions, not thoughts. The biggest joke ever played on white people was getting us to think we should feel guilty for our thoughts while no one ever feels guilty about thinking the same thoughts of us. At some point it became okay to be racist against white people. As soon as I graduated high school, I became politically incorrect by definition, and it only gets worse as I get older. I'm not afraid to say that really ticks me off. Why can a white guy not even sing along to a rap song but a black comedian can get up on stage and shout "cracker" at the top of his lungs for 45 minutes? I don't "want to be allowed" to use the N word, per se, but if cracker and honkey are fair game, then why not? Or if I can't say it, why are the other ones fair game? It makes no sense to me but that's the equality we have right now. None. A lot of people see me as controversial on the issue of race sometimes, but if they stick through and listen to the real point, that opinion gets changed pretty quick.

jessejordan419
07-28-2012, 01:33 AM
There's a difference between "public" places and "government" places. I am not aware of anyone defending the right to ban christianity in public places. If they did, I would speak against it. When dealing with schools I also have no problem with the casual mention of religion or God. The problem arises when christians want to include religioun in the daily routine. As for "re-naming" holidays; I am totally against that and express it whenever it is brought up. I celebrate Christmas (not in a religious context, rather in a family context).

With regards to polygamy; I also have no problem with adults engaging in the practice. The reason most do not defend the practice is probably due to the perception that polygamy is associated routinely with systematic abuse of young girls.



With regards to polygamy, it is sometimes associated with systematic abuse of young girls. Look at the case of Warren Steed Jeffs, who was prosecuted for arranging marriages between men and young girls, as was other members of his sect. This is the high profile case, but there may have been others throughout the church's history.


Government places are public places. Our government is for the people, by the people. So logically, government places, that are not of a sensitive nature security wise, are public places. One of the very few times I agreed with Michael Moore in Fahrenheit 9/11 is where he was chased away from the Saudi Embassy by US cops; while on a public sidewalk and across the street. I'm sorry, but he was on public property, and clearly not a threat to anyone. Maybe not the brightest thing to do, but a clear violation of basic freedom and liberty.

Prayer was eliminated in public schools by atheists, even though they were vague generalized prayers. Even recent cases where there were "Prayer Events", outside the classrooms and buildings, those were still eliminated by atheist lawsuits. I am referring to an instance where students voluntarily meet around the flagpole and prayed out loud. I believe it may have been on National Prayer Day, and before school even started. This was attacked, even though it was not forced on anyone, and was strictly voluntary.

Now, the Pledge of Allegience is under attack because the last line is, "one Nation, Under God, with Liberty and Justice for all". And they are taking the words, "In God We Trust" off the coinage face, and onto the edges, where it is sure to wear off with little use(especially how cheaply made our new coinage is). These are examples of simply the word "God" being attacked by the ACLU and/or atheists.

However, if a group of muslims were to get together voluntarily and pray outside the classroom, and actually, outside any school building, I seriously doubt atheists or the ACLU would file lawsuits to have it stopped. As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, the ACLU and atheists have not filed suit against any islamic activity for encroachment of their "separation of church and state" doctrine; even though sharia law has been cited in 23 court cases in American courts as of December 2011. I believe it is up to 50 cases now. Where is the ACLU and/or atheist lawsuits in that regard?

When muslims cover their faces for Drivers License photos, the ACLU files suit to have it allowed on the basis of "freedom of religion", even though it is a direct security threat. They even file suit against private businesses to allow muslims to violate the private business's dress code on the basis of "freedom of religion". I would like the ACLU to file suits to allow Orthodox Jews to wear their black hats during a Drivers License photo; and even then, their faces are still identifiable.

Wickabee
07-28-2012, 02:52 PM
With regards to polygamy, it is sometimes associated with systematic abuse of young girls. Look at the case of Warren Steed Jeffs, who was prosecuted for arranging marriages between men and young girls, as was other members of his sect. This is the high profile case, but there may have been others throughout the church's history.


Government places are public places. Our government is for the people, by the people. So logically, government places, that are not of a sensitive nature security wise, are public places. One of the very few times I agreed with Michael Moore in Fahrenheit 9/11 is where he was chased away from the Saudi Embassy by US cops; while on a public sidewalk and across the street. I'm sorry, but he was on public property, and clearly not a threat to anyone. Maybe not the brightest thing to do, but a clear violation of basic freedom and liberty.

Prayer was eliminated in public schools by atheists, even though they were vague generalized prayers. Even recent cases where there were "Prayer Events", outside the classrooms and buildings, those were still eliminated by atheist lawsuits. I am referring to an instance where students voluntarily meet around the flagpole and prayed out loud. I believe it may have been on National Prayer Day, and before school even started. This was attacked, even though it was not forced on anyone, and was strictly voluntary.

Now, the Pledge of Allegience is under attack because the last line is, "one Nation, Under God, with Liberty and Justice for all". And they are taking the words, "In God We Trust" off the coinage face, and onto the edges, where it is sure to wear off with little use(especially how cheaply made our new coinage is). These are examples of simply the word "God" being attacked by the ACLU and/or atheists.
Personally, I don't have a real problem with any of this. But this:


However, if a group of muslims were to get together voluntarily and pray outside the classroom, and actually, outside any school building, I seriously doubt atheists or the ACLU would file lawsuits to have it stopped. As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, the ACLU and atheists have not filed suit against any islamic activity for encroachment of their "separation of church and state" doctrine; even though sharia law has been cited in 23 court cases in American courts as of December 2011. I believe it is up to 50 cases now. Where is the ACLU and/or atheist lawsuits in that regard?

When muslims cover their faces for Drivers License photos, the ACLU files suit to have it allowed on the basis of "freedom of religion", even though it is a direct security threat. They even file suit against private businesses to allow muslims to violate the private business's dress code on the basis of "freedom of religion". I would like the ACLU to file suits to allow Orthodox Jews to wear their black hats during a Drivers License photo; and even then, their faces are still identifiable.
I agree with completely. Again, I think this goes back to the big bad white man, even though Christians come in all colours. It's a double standard I do not agree with.

mrveggieman
07-30-2012, 09:31 AM
It's my belief that everyone on earth is racist. I think racism, or what we think is racism, is built into us. I look at black people differently than I look at white people. I admit it full out. But can any black person honestly say they don't look at white people differently? I've never found one who would say that and I don't think I will. Looking at a person differently because of race is not racism, how you react to what you see is racism. Do I see black people differently? You bet! Asians and Natives too. Do I treat them differently? Not one bit. My thinking is prejudiced based on race, but so are everyone else's. My actions, on the other hand, I am the same person whether you're black, white or whatever. That's where racism lives; in actions, not thoughts. The biggest joke ever played on white people was getting us to think we should feel guilty for our thoughts while no one ever feels guilty about thinking the same thoughts of us. At some point it became okay to be racist against white people. As soon as I graduated high school, I became politically incorrect by definition, and it only gets worse as I get older. I'm not afraid to say that really ticks me off. Why can a white guy not even sing along to a rap song but a black comedian can get up on stage and shout "cracker" at the top of his lungs for 45 minutes? I don't "want to be allowed" to use the N word, per se, but if cracker and honkey are fair game, then why not? Or if I can't say it, why are the other ones fair game? It makes no sense to me but that's the equality we have right now. None. A lot of people see me as controversial on the issue of race sometimes, but if they stick through and listen to the real point, that opinion gets changed pretty quick.

I said this a while back and I will say it again. As soon as white people stop paying black comedians to say racially insulting things about them they will stop using those words. Please don't think that I am saying that those comedians are right but you know the old saying money talks that other stuff walks.

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 01:58 PM
I said this a while back and I will say it again. As soon as white people stop paying black comedians to say racially insulting things about them they will stop using those words. Please don't think that I am saying that those comedians are right but you know the old saying money talks that other stuff walks.

No I get you. But is it really jusr white people paying?

mrveggieman
07-30-2012, 02:01 PM
No I get you. But is it really jusr white people paying?


No black people pay for that too but since there are more white people in north america if they put their money where their mouth is this would stop.

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 02:06 PM
No black people pay for that too but since there are more white people in north america if they put their money where their mouth is this would stop.

I don't necessarily want the language to stop. I want the double standard to stop. That means either white people becoming offended by (and thus giving power to) "cracker" and such OR black people not being offended by (thus taking the power away from) white people saying the N word.

mrveggieman
07-30-2012, 02:16 PM
I don't necessarily want the language to stop. I want the double standard to stop. That means either white people becoming offended by (and thus giving power to) "cracker" and such OR black people not being offended by (thus taking the power away from) white people saying the N word.


I don't think that most white people would be too comfortable with a white comedian using that word. I am not white obviously so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 02:22 PM
I don't think that most white people would be too comfortable with a white comedian using that word. I am not white obviously so please correct me if I'm wrong.

The only reason it would make me uncomfortable, and I think a lot of white people can say the same, is knowing the reaction it would garner from black people. You don't have to be racist to use the word, or the ones referring to whites. Language doesn't bother me. Words only contain as much power as the listener gives them, I truly believe that. What bothers me is a white comedian/musician/whatever using the N word automatically makes him a "racist" but a black guy using the N word or derogatory terms for whites are "artists". I'm not blaming the comedians et al. I'm blaming the people who continue to give power to these words.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 07:53 PM
I don't necessarily want the language to stop. I want the double standard to stop. That means either white people becoming offended by (and thus giving power to) "cracker" and such OR black people not being offended by (thus taking the power away from) white people saying the N word.


You forget that he that controls the language controls the people. The more language can be suppressed, the more history can be suppressed, the more people can be led in the direction desired like lemmings. Controlled speech is far more dangerous than anyone wants to admit.

As an avowed socialist, you should really read the book, 1984, written by a fellow socialist in the 1940's. Baby steps. Controlled speech and language, then rewritten history, then ignorant blind lemmings ripe for slaughter at the slightest notion of free thought or speech.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 07:57 PM
I don't necessarily want the language to stop. I want the double standard to stop. That means either white people becoming offended by (and thus giving power to) "cracker" and such OR black people not being offended by (thus taking the power away from) white people saying the N word.

Many feign anger to bully whites. True irony, because they call each other the N word in all their music, movies, and slang. And don't tell me they're "owning it", if they did, they wouldn't be offended when white wannabees attempt to "own it" with them. Ya'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 08:01 PM
You forget that he that controls the language controls the people. The more language can be suppressed, the more history can be suppressed, the more people can be led in the direction desired like lemmings. Controlled speech is far more dangerous than anyone wants to admit.

As an avowed socialist, you should really read the book, 1984, written by a fellow socialist in the 1940's. Baby steps. Controlled speech and language, then rewritten history, then ignorant blind lemmings ripe for slaughter at the slightest notion of free thought or speech.

Seriously man, just stop. While I admit I lean to the left, if I've ever called myself liberal it was because that's the group I get lumped into and I'm happier to be lumped into "liberal" than "conservative".

Secondly, I've read 1984. Of all the statements you've made about me not a single one has been correct.

Third, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 08:05 PM
Many feign anger to bully whites. True irony, because they call each other the N word in all their music, movies, and slang. And don't tell me they're "owning it", if they did, they wouldn't be offended when white wannabees attempt to "own it" with them. Ya'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

Other than the veiled racism and use of "Ya'll" I agree with you. And by the way, it's y'all as in "you all". You place the apostrophe where the contraction exists, which is the removal of 'o' and 'u' from "you". What you've done there is imply there should be more letters between the 'a' and first 'l' in the word "all".
Unless you meant something completely different.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 08:49 PM
Seriously man, just stop. While I admit I lean to the left, if I've ever called myself liberal it was because that's the group I get lumped into and I'm happier to be lumped into "liberal" than "conservative".

Secondly, I've read 1984. Of all the statements you've made about me not a single one has been correct.

Third, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.


Actually, it has EVERYTHING to do with the topic at hand. This is what lead to "political correctness", and I have been alive long enough to realize it. Maybe you have not been. This was the beginning of the end of free speech. Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn books were "burned" by libraries all over America, and have been re-written to exclude words written by the author.

This is EXACTLY what happened in 1984, the history was re-written.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 08:50 PM
Other than the veiled racism and use of "Ya'll" I agree with you. And by the way, it's y'all as in "you all". You place the apostrophe where the contraction exists, which is the removal of 'o' and 'u' from "you". What you've done there is imply there should be more letters between the 'a' and first 'l' in the word "all".
Unless you meant something completely different.


Your not a Texan, so you wouldn't understand. And once again, you label me as a racist. You are making assumptions, something you denied doing, but are doing EXACTLY that.

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 09:12 PM
Your not a Texan, so you wouldn't understand. And once again, you label me as a racist. You are making assumptions, something you denied doing, but are doing EXACTLY that.

I was referring to your post, not you.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 10:57 PM
I was referring to your post, not you.

That obviously went way over your head. I'm a Texan, therefore I spell ya'll as Texans do. Not some literary book that explains the "proper" grammer of slang.

habsheaven
07-30-2012, 11:03 PM
Do all Texans spell "grammer" with an "e" also?

shrewsbury
07-30-2012, 11:13 PM
the last 6 posts have been off topic, back to topic please

lets stop with the garbage and move forward, no more personal attacks!