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View Full Version : Obama Will 'Evaluate' Bill Limiting Online Ammunition Sales



mikesilvia
07-30-2012, 04:30 PM
WASHINGTON -- White House Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest said Monday that President Barack Obama will "evaluate" new legislation that effectively bans online sales of...

More... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/obama-gun-laws-online-ammunition_n_1720122.html)

theonedru
07-30-2012, 04:38 PM
Interesting I would have thought it was already illegal to ship ammunition through the mail. I find totally hypocritical that it is illegal to ship some laptop batteries via the mail due to instability issues yet totally ok for something containing a volatile explosive powder to be ok??

ensbergcollector
07-30-2012, 05:06 PM
i am one of the biggest supporters of gun rights but i don't think i would have an issue with a bill like this. with that said, i don't think this will accomplish anything.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 06:41 PM
Interesting I would have thought it was already illegal to ship ammunition through the mail. I find totally hypocritical that it is illegal to ship some laptop batteries via the mail due to instability issues yet totally ok for something containing a volatile explosive powder to be ok??

Battery acid is a lot more volatile than gunpowder, and once leaking, can react violently with other substances. It is also a liquid, and can seep through boxes. Comprised battery cases or old or leaking cases are very dangerous. Ammo must be heated considerably before igniting. Primers must be punched very hard to prime, and ammo is packaged in individual boxes to prevent this. Also, there are strict rules as to how ammo must be shipped, and cannot be shipped usps.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 06:43 PM
Another food for thought. Ammo must be chambered to produce the pressure to launch the projectile. Throw some ammo in a fire and the brass is what will launch, not the projectile.

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 08:26 PM
Jesse, what are your thoughts on limiting online sales of ammo?

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 09:13 PM
Jesse, what are your thoughts on limiting online sales of ammo?


Wouldn't you rather make assumptions?

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 09:15 PM
Look, I'm trying to get a decent dialogue going here, so instead of pointing out that you just made the assumption, I'd rather you answered the question, I'm interested to know.

tutall
07-30-2012, 09:24 PM
I think it is absolutely ridiculous. Online ammo sales is not what killed those people in Aurora. Honestly with the cheap ammunition he bought it probably saved more lives than killed because it kept jamming (from reports I have read). It is the same with gun control though... Crazy people will find a way to get whatever they need. Ammo, guns, explosives, anything. It doesnt take a whole lot to make a pipe bomb either but we cant start outlawing the sales of pipes and small pieces of steel.

theonedru
07-30-2012, 09:33 PM
I think a happy medium exists and we can come to it if we eliminate the rhetoric from both sides extremists who are a big part of the problem

tutall
07-30-2012, 09:54 PM
I think a happy medium exists and we can come to it if we eliminate the rhetoric from both sides extremists who are a big part of the problem

I guess my questions is though what does limiting online sales solve? It sounds good to anti gun people but fact of the matter is you can go in any gun shop and buy all you would need to do some serious damage... The only thing I could figure out is limiting sames to minors... unless I am missing something, which is totally possible

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 10:11 PM
Look, I'm trying to get a decent dialogue going here, so instead of pointing out that you just made the assumption, I'd rather you answered the question, I'm interested to know.


It is unConstitutional to limit firearms sales or ammunition sales. The ATF Form 4473 that everyone is required to fill out to buy a firearm is unConstitutional. By having to complete this form, you are denied your Constitutional right to Bear Arms by having to be "approved" to buy a firearm.

Limiting ammunition sales only seeks to limit the 2nd amendment by means of limiting the use of said firearms by proxy legislation or action.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 10:17 PM
I think it is absolutely ridiculous. Online ammo sales is not what killed those people in Aurora. Honestly with the cheap ammunition he bought it probably saved more lives than killed because it kept jamming (from reports I have read). It is the same with gun control though... Crazy people will find a way to get whatever they need. Ammo, guns, explosives, anything. It doesnt take a whole lot to make a pipe bomb either but we cant start outlawing the sales of pipes and small pieces of steel.

The report I heard was that his cheap drum magazine failed. If I remember correctly, he actually killed more people with the shotgun. 00 Buckshot has 8 pellets of .38". That's like 8 .38 revolver rounds exiting at once at a spread into a crowd at close range. Far more dangerous than high capacity magazines or "assault weapons" as liberals like to label them.


It is by the same liberal logic that knives should be outlawed because they kill people, and bats likewise, because they kill people. By this same logic, spoons made rosie o'donnel fat.



By the way, Michael Savage(whom I listen to often), thinks drum magazines should be banned because they are intended for the military. I totally disagree with this logic. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting, or hunting related firearms.

So as an aside to all these liberals who label me as a "blind follower", there is not 1 radio or t.v. talk show host that I agree with more than 80% of the time. To the same, I have not found 1 politician I agree with more than 80% of the time. Maybe Ron Paul........but that's only a maybe.

jessejordan419
07-30-2012, 10:20 PM
I think a happy medium exists and we can come to it if we eliminate the rhetoric from both sides extremists who are a big part of the problem


This is cliche. The REAL problem is that perpetrators of these horrendous acts are given worldwide media attention, a lifetime of attention through reporters, book writers, etc., and it takes 30 years worth of appeals for them to actually be executed.

Justice should be SWIFT and SEVERE. If not, what do criminals have as incentive to do otherwise? Most criminals enjoy a better life in prison than in their former life, which is a product of liberalism.

habsheaven
07-30-2012, 10:21 PM
I guess my questions is though what does limiting online sales solve? It sounds good to anti gun people but fact of the matter is you can go in any gun shop and buy all you would need to do some serious damage... The only thing I could figure out is limiting sames to minors... unless I am missing something, which is totally possible

Could it possibly deter one or two of these cowards when they actually have to show themselves in the lead up to there crime? Are any of them paranoid enough to fear capture if they show their face? What is the harm in making them face a real person who may raise an eyebrow?

tutall
07-30-2012, 11:21 PM
Could it possibly deter one or two of these cowards when they actually have to show themselves in the lead up to there crime? Are any of them paranoid enough to fear capture if they show their face? What is the harm in making them face a real person who may raise an eyebrow?

The dude walked into a packed theater and shot 70 people... I dont think seeing someone face to face is going to deter him.. And from what I gather the problem people are having is the amount of ammo you can buy online.... This guy had thousands and thousands of rounds but used only a few.... Anyone can buy a box of 100 AR-15 rounds at the local gun store and they are set. As was mentioned before most of the damage was done with a shotgun of which I would say there are thousandsust like it within a 10 mile radius of my home and there hasnt been a murder in my county since 97 or something like that....

habsheaven
07-30-2012, 11:35 PM
The dude walked into a packed theater and shot 70 people... I dont think seeing someone face to face is going to deter him.. And from what I gather the problem people are having is the amount of ammo you can buy online.... This guy had thousands and thousands of rounds but used only a few.... Anyone can buy a box of 100 AR-15 rounds at the local gun store and they are set. As was mentioned before most of the damage was done with a shotgun of which I would say there are thousandsust like it within a 10 mile radius of my home and there hasnt been a murder in my county since 97 or something like that....

That's not quite what I was getting at, but your other points are valid.

Wickabee
07-30-2012, 11:58 PM
It is unConstitutional to limit firearms sales or ammunition sales. The ATF Form 4473 that everyone is required to fill out to buy a firearm is unConstitutional. By having to complete this form, you are denied your Constitutional right to Bear Arms by having to be "approved" to buy a firearm.

Limiting ammunition sales only seeks to limit the 2nd amendment by means of limiting the use of said firearms by proxy legislation or action.
That' s all I was after. Thanks

shrewsbury
07-31-2012, 12:42 AM
[QUOTE]Justice should be SWIFT and SEVERE. If not, what do criminals have as incentive to do otherwise?[QUOTE]
I agree with this

could you imagine if he was executed two days from now? how much money we would save? how little this idiots life would be really worth, no chance for interviews or tv movies, he would be forgotten about in a month or two, no fame at all.

habsheaven
07-31-2012, 09:11 AM
[QUOTE]Justice should be SWIFT and SEVERE. If not, what do criminals have as incentive to do otherwise?[QUOTE]
I agree with this

could you imagine if he was executed two days from now? how much money we would save? how little this idiots life would be really worth, no chance for interviews or tv movies, he would be forgotten about in a month or two, no fame at all.

As much as I agree with this. That is not the society we live in. Do we really want to process criminals this way? Who decides who will get due process and who is guilty because we know it and deserves no due process?

mrveggieman
07-31-2012, 10:20 AM
[QUOTE=shrewsbury;11902296][QUOTE]Justice should be SWIFT and SEVERE. If not, what do criminals have as incentive to do otherwise?

As much as I agree with this. That is not the society we live in. Do we really want to process criminals this way? Who decides who will get due process and who is guilty because we know it and deserves no due process?

Im normally for due process but clowns like this guy, mcveigh, obl, etc deserve no due process and needs to be burned alive at the steak in the middle of the town square.

shrewsbury
07-31-2012, 11:06 AM
habs, if you bust into a movie and kill all kinds of people and are caught in the act, what process is do? it's a done deal, they know it was you.

habsheaven
07-31-2012, 12:01 PM
habs, if you bust into a movie and kill all kinds of people and are caught in the act, what process is do? it's a done deal, they know it was you.

I agree it looks pretty "cut and dry", however we live in a society where we make allowances for nut cases. We also like to try and determine the motives at times like this. Where would we draw the line?

tpeichel
07-31-2012, 02:46 PM
There isn't a lot of evidence that has been released, and from what I've heard, the shooters face was covered during the shooting. Without a trial, how can we be sure without a reasonable doubt that he committed the crime? (I'm sure there is very solid evidence.) The wheels of justice grind slowly for a good reason, to protect innocent people, but I'd have no problem limiting the appeals process to quicken the time before the final punishment for murderers is delivered.

duane1969
07-31-2012, 03:20 PM
Interesting I would have thought it was already illegal to ship ammunition through the mail. I find totally hypocritical that it is illegal to ship some laptop batteries via the mail due to instability issues yet totally ok for something containing a volatile explosive powder to be ok??

Actually, it IS illegal to ship ammo thru the mail. When you buy ammo on-line it is delivered by UPS or FedEx.


I guess my questions is though what does limiting online sales solve? It sounds good to anti gun people but fact of the matter is you can go in any gun shop and buy all you would need to do some serious damage... The only thing I could figure out is limiting sames to minors... unless I am missing something, which is totally possible

Ammo sales already have their limitations in gun shops. One of my local dealers has been complaining for a year that he is limited from buying certain ammo in large quantities. I can't quote you the exact law but the libs snuck a bill through at some point that limits the sale of certain ammo in large quanties to dealers. In essence, they can't limit the gun so they limit the usefulness of the gun.


It is unConstitutional to limit firearms sales or ammunition sales. The ATF Form 4473 that everyone is required to fill out to buy a firearm is unConstitutional. By having to complete this form, you are denied your Constitutional right to Bear Arms by having to be "approved" to buy a firearm.

Limiting ammunition sales only seeks to limit the 2nd amendment by means of limiting the use of said firearms by proxy legislation or action.

What he said...


The dude walked into a packed theater and shot 70 people... I dont think seeing someone face to face is going to deter him.. And from what I gather the problem people are having is the amount of ammo you can buy online.... This guy had thousands and thousands of rounds but used only a few.... Anyone can buy a box of 100 AR-15 rounds at the local gun store and they are set. As was mentioned before most of the damage was done with a shotgun of which I would say there are thousandsust like it within a 10 mile radius of my home and there hasnt been a murder in my county since 97 or something like that....

I have long used the analogy that if in a crowded, small space that I could do more damage with a sawed-off double barrel 12 gauge with buckshot than any 9mm with a 15 shot clip could ever hope to. What's more, in the time that it would take someone to empty a 9mm with any form of accuracy I could shoot both barrels, reload and shoot again while making no effort for accuracy and do more damage.

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The simple reality is that limiting clip sizes, limiting on-line ammo sales and all of these other things are lame attempts and grandstanding to appease the left-wing radicals. They know that limiting on-line ammo purchases don't help anything. They know that limiting clips to 10 shots or less changes nothing. But there is an element of liberals who aren't very smart and they vote for these people based on these irrelevant aspects.

You want to know just how silly limiting clips to 10 rounds or less is? There are millions already made that a new law will not affect. They will be grandfathered in.

You want to know how pointless a law limiting on-line ammo sales is? My local gun shop sells me .40 cal and .45 ACP ammo all day long in 500 round lots and it is cheaper than I can buy it on-line. I don't need to buy on-line.

I repeat. Grandstanding.

Wickabee
07-31-2012, 04:24 PM
The simple reality is that limiting clip sizes, limiting on-line ammo sales and all of these other things are lame attempts and grandstanding to appease the left-wing radicals. They know that limiting on-line ammo purchases don't help anything. They know that limiting clips to 10 shots or less changes nothing. But there is an element of liberals who aren't very smart and they vote for these people based on these irrelevant aspects.


Agreed, but the conservatives have their own versions of the same thing as well.