jessejordan419
07-31-2012, 06:53 PM
Let me start by saying it is not my intent to belittle anyone's Faith. I only seek Truth. I seek not to judge individuals, that is for God. I have no way of knowing who is saved and who is not.
I seek to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ: that He was born of a Virgin, lived a sinless life, was crucified at the Cross, was buried, and resurrected on the 3rd day; thus conquering death, hell, and the grave for those that Believe in Him.
Since I have never been a member of the mormon church, if any of these statements are wrong, be kind enough to show me how I have erred.
The Test of a Prophet.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
20 'But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.' 21 "And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?' 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Two reasons for the death of a false prophet
1. Speaks in the name of other gods
2. Presumes to speak a word in “My name”, which I have not commanded
If the word does not come to pass….the Lord has not spoken it.
To testing Joseph Smith, there are several aspects of his revelations can be examined. The LDS Church recognizes The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price as revealed scripture. The Reorganized LDS church accepts only the Book of Mormon. The LDS church also recognizes the continuation of the prophetic mantle on Joseph Smith Jr., successors, including Brigham Young and succeeding presidents of the LDS. The Bible is recognized as God’s word, but with the caveat, “As far as it is translated correctly”[3], which de-facto subordinates it to other Mormon scripture with no translation questions.
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
**Anything God says twice is really really important.
So is the message of Mormon “Another Gospel”? The “Book of Mormon” clearly proclaims its distinction from the message and church prior to its revelation.
Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jr. and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments….And having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun,. might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon…….to lay the foundation of this church, and bring it forth out of obscurity…the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased… Doctrine and Covenants 1:17,29,30
Jesus in Mormonism
God the Father of the Mormon Jesus was once a man before he was god with a god over him.
4. “God exists and we had better strive to be prepared to be one with them” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:238)
5. “As man is, God once was: as God is, man may become” (Prophet Lorenzo Snow, quotedin Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, 105-106)
6. Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 1:123)
Jesus & Jehovah in Christianity & Judaism
Jehovah
(Numbers 23:19 NIV) God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
(Deuteronomy 4:24 NIV) For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
(Deuteronomy 10:17 NIV) For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.
(John 4:24 NIV) God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Jesus / Yeshua
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Both sets of Scripture show that neither Jehovah or Jesus were ever man. Jehovah God is Spirit, a consuming fire. Therefore, according to the Gospel of John, so was Jesus before He was flesh, because the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh, which is Jesus the Christ.
For sake of space and time, I will shorten the other points of debate.
*mormon Jesus was born of Mary who was a polygamist married to Joseph and a mortal man who became god, not born of the Holy Spirit.
-Jesus of Christianity was born of the Virgin Mary, by the Holy Spirit.
*mormon Jesus had a brother, Lucifer, who was another son of the mormon god
-Lucifer was the Archangel in charge of Worship of God in heaven. He rebelled against God, and was cast down to Earth. He was an angel, and the Bible says he masqueredes as an angel of light. Angels are definitely not human. Jesus Christ did have brothers, but only younger brothers born from Joseph and Mary.
*the mormon Jesus once needed to be saved.
-The Christian Jesus was THE reason for Salvation. Before Yeshua, the Law of Moses perscribed a set of rules for the sacrifices. This saved Israel for her prior sins. However, Jesus was the Perfect Lamb of God, and no more sacrifices were needed. The Law was imperfect, but in Jesus, all was perfected.
*the mormon Jesus killed, throwing temper tantrums destroying cities, and killing innocent women and children.
-The Christian Jesus was killed, and killed no one.
*the mormon Jesus was helped in the creation by Joseph Smith
-The Christian Jesus needed no help, because He created Man in His image. He was given the power to create by The Father.
Matthew 24:23-26 23"Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 "See, I have told you beforehand. 26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
The New Jerusalem to be built in Jackson County, Missouri in Joseph Smith Jr. generation. Joseph clearly declared in the (DC) in 1832, the New Jerusalem was to be constructed and completed in the Western Boundaries of the State of Missouri, (Jackson County) in his lifetime.
The Bible clearly states that New Jerusalem is a City of Gold 1500 cubits wide X 1500 cubits long X 1500 cubits tall. New Jerusalem does not come down from Heaven until the Millennial Reign of Jesus, after the anti-Christ is defeated.
Are there Changes in the Book of Mormon?
The Book of Mormon was published for the first time in 1830, the direct result of a translation process guided by the “Holy Spirit”, translating the “Word of God” from the “Golden-plates”. If the Book of Mormon is the Word of God as it proclaims can it be changed in 150 years, from its “Holy Ghost” inspired revelation to Joseph Smith Jr., If this is the case this leads to several questions,
· Which version is the “Word of God”?
· Who changed the words God, men or God?
· If it was changed, was it really the “Word of God” to begin with?
There is the 1830 Edition of the Book of Mormon, and the greatly different 1981 Edition of the Book of Mormon.
2 Timothy 4:2-5
"Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things..."
Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it."
Proverbs 30:5-6
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar."
I seek to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ: that He was born of a Virgin, lived a sinless life, was crucified at the Cross, was buried, and resurrected on the 3rd day; thus conquering death, hell, and the grave for those that Believe in Him.
Since I have never been a member of the mormon church, if any of these statements are wrong, be kind enough to show me how I have erred.
The Test of a Prophet.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
20 'But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.' 21 "And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?' 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Two reasons for the death of a false prophet
1. Speaks in the name of other gods
2. Presumes to speak a word in “My name”, which I have not commanded
If the word does not come to pass….the Lord has not spoken it.
To testing Joseph Smith, there are several aspects of his revelations can be examined. The LDS Church recognizes The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price as revealed scripture. The Reorganized LDS church accepts only the Book of Mormon. The LDS church also recognizes the continuation of the prophetic mantle on Joseph Smith Jr., successors, including Brigham Young and succeeding presidents of the LDS. The Bible is recognized as God’s word, but with the caveat, “As far as it is translated correctly”[3], which de-facto subordinates it to other Mormon scripture with no translation questions.
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
**Anything God says twice is really really important.
So is the message of Mormon “Another Gospel”? The “Book of Mormon” clearly proclaims its distinction from the message and church prior to its revelation.
Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jr. and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments….And having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun,. might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon…….to lay the foundation of this church, and bring it forth out of obscurity…the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased… Doctrine and Covenants 1:17,29,30
Jesus in Mormonism
God the Father of the Mormon Jesus was once a man before he was god with a god over him.
4. “God exists and we had better strive to be prepared to be one with them” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:238)
5. “As man is, God once was: as God is, man may become” (Prophet Lorenzo Snow, quotedin Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, 105-106)
6. Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 1:123)
Jesus & Jehovah in Christianity & Judaism
Jehovah
(Numbers 23:19 NIV) God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
(Deuteronomy 4:24 NIV) For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
(Deuteronomy 10:17 NIV) For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.
(John 4:24 NIV) God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Jesus / Yeshua
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Both sets of Scripture show that neither Jehovah or Jesus were ever man. Jehovah God is Spirit, a consuming fire. Therefore, according to the Gospel of John, so was Jesus before He was flesh, because the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh, which is Jesus the Christ.
For sake of space and time, I will shorten the other points of debate.
*mormon Jesus was born of Mary who was a polygamist married to Joseph and a mortal man who became god, not born of the Holy Spirit.
-Jesus of Christianity was born of the Virgin Mary, by the Holy Spirit.
*mormon Jesus had a brother, Lucifer, who was another son of the mormon god
-Lucifer was the Archangel in charge of Worship of God in heaven. He rebelled against God, and was cast down to Earth. He was an angel, and the Bible says he masqueredes as an angel of light. Angels are definitely not human. Jesus Christ did have brothers, but only younger brothers born from Joseph and Mary.
*the mormon Jesus once needed to be saved.
-The Christian Jesus was THE reason for Salvation. Before Yeshua, the Law of Moses perscribed a set of rules for the sacrifices. This saved Israel for her prior sins. However, Jesus was the Perfect Lamb of God, and no more sacrifices were needed. The Law was imperfect, but in Jesus, all was perfected.
*the mormon Jesus killed, throwing temper tantrums destroying cities, and killing innocent women and children.
-The Christian Jesus was killed, and killed no one.
*the mormon Jesus was helped in the creation by Joseph Smith
-The Christian Jesus needed no help, because He created Man in His image. He was given the power to create by The Father.
Matthew 24:23-26 23"Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 "See, I have told you beforehand. 26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
The New Jerusalem to be built in Jackson County, Missouri in Joseph Smith Jr. generation. Joseph clearly declared in the (DC) in 1832, the New Jerusalem was to be constructed and completed in the Western Boundaries of the State of Missouri, (Jackson County) in his lifetime.
The Bible clearly states that New Jerusalem is a City of Gold 1500 cubits wide X 1500 cubits long X 1500 cubits tall. New Jerusalem does not come down from Heaven until the Millennial Reign of Jesus, after the anti-Christ is defeated.
Are there Changes in the Book of Mormon?
The Book of Mormon was published for the first time in 1830, the direct result of a translation process guided by the “Holy Spirit”, translating the “Word of God” from the “Golden-plates”. If the Book of Mormon is the Word of God as it proclaims can it be changed in 150 years, from its “Holy Ghost” inspired revelation to Joseph Smith Jr., If this is the case this leads to several questions,
· Which version is the “Word of God”?
· Who changed the words God, men or God?
· If it was changed, was it really the “Word of God” to begin with?
There is the 1830 Edition of the Book of Mormon, and the greatly different 1981 Edition of the Book of Mormon.
2 Timothy 4:2-5
"Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things..."
Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it."
Proverbs 30:5-6
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar."